Losing Gordon = win for Chicago

I agree with everything I say.

Can someone give me an example of a ball dominant point guard and a ball dominant shooting guard who had success in the NBA being on the same team???

BENCH GORDON!! Start Salmons and let Hinrich back up both Rose and Salmons

GREAT POST!!!

RECD!!!

Would anyone here care to disagree that Rose it having a great season as a rookie? No of course not. Ok would anyone here also care to disagree that BG is having one of if not his best season as a pro? I’ll wait….. Of course not. So explain to me how BG is stunting Rose’s growth as a player if both are having great seasons together in the backcourt. If I’m not mistaken, Rose’s assist numbers went up after Gordon became a starter this year. If you want to use this argument for Hinrich, that’s fine because that is your definition of a ball dominant player playing next to Rose. Somewhere around here people think that being a ballhog and ball dominant means taking a lot of shots. If you look at the game against the Pacers, Hihrich was the perfect example of BALL DOMINANT. Gordon is a volume shooter meaning he doesn’t need a lot of shots to score a lot of points. That’s why everyone compares him to Vinnie Johnson in the first place.

Bench Ben Gordon?? What the hell??

Has the world gone mad???

I dont get this negativity to Ben Gordon at all, all he has done is shut his mouth and play above decent ball. He has been the one consistant scorer on this mediocre team and you want to get rid of him?? (or worse yet, just bench him for SALMONS of all people??)

I just dont get some people here

I like the underlying premise, but to apply to BG is a bit of a non-sequitur. BG is not a ball-dominant guard under your own definition. For instance:

“He needs the ball in his hands to be effective.” Not true. He is quite effective playing within the flow of the offense.

“The non-stop dribbles until the shot clock goes down to five…” I can’t remember the last time this happened. 2 years ago? In fact, BG hasn’t had ball handling responsibilities since The Captain came back from injury.

The rule is better applied to Kirk, who is much more ball-dominant than BG. “Taking lots of shots” does not equate to ball-dominant (see, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen). In fact, the more Ben matures as the player, the more I think he will compliment D Rose.

Great discussion topic though.

is a 2 guard that can shoot. BG is a great shooter. I don’t see how losing him is a win for chicago.

and by the way, i like how you threw out new orleans as this pillar of guard oriented success. they tried it your way and dumped their “guard who needs the ball” because they thought it would be so easy to find perimeter players to put next to paul who can just hit open 3’s, and now they have no room to improve because they overpaid for marginal players like posey, peja, and mo pete. you don’t think they’d like to have jr smith as their 2 guard right now? you need more than one offensive weapon to win in this league; i don’t know why so many people don’t understand this.

I’ll admit and eat my words next year when BG leaves for Oklahoma City. But until then…..we’ll see.

that doesn’t want to Blow Ben Gordon. However, I do think BG can fit with this team ( and I am not a blind BG lover). I agree that the ball needs to be taken out of BG’s hands and put into Rose’s hands at all times. Ben dribbles too much when he has it, and is not the best passer. The Bulls could and should use Ben Gordon the way Detroit used Rip. Chauncey could get Rip the Ball exactly when he needed it, and Rip would just shoot it. However, that is Vinny’s deficiency as a coach, that BG isn’t used the best way possible with Rose.
Getting rid of Hinrich is the most obvious solution. And if we can unload him on the Twolves, I would like to bring Ben back at a reasonable price.
The main problem with Ben is that he is a liability on Defense, and small, so if you aren’t running the offense through him, then it is pretty pointless to have him out there.
I really can’t see BG going to OKC. He doesn’t fit in at all with that team. They already have all the offense they need in Durant. BG and Westrbook would really not work in the backcourt, which is why Thabo is such a good fit. They need a good defender at SG that can also provide some offense. Thabo isn’t PERFECT, but he is the type of player they need at SG, not BG.
Couldn’t watch the game tonight, sadly. Is Vinny still subbing Salmons and Miller at the same time? Someone tell Vinny that they don’t always have to be a package deal. I understand that they played on the same team and are familiar with each other, but I would love to see some more action with Miller and Tyrus. Sorry Noah lovers, I would much rather have Brad Miller playing the bulk of minutes and starting for us. Watching that Pacer game, I haven’t seen anybody in a Bulls’ uniform get that physical under the boards in a long time

is an example of two ball dominant players. Williams is scoring 17.6ppg, and only 40% of his shots are assisted.

And since you included a PG/SF pair who both create from the backcourt, I’ll include a few others:

Rondo/Pierce
Nelson/Turkoglu
Miller/Iguodala
Harris/Terry/Dirk

I think the reason you see so few ball-dominant backcourts is because it’s not a great way to start a team. First, you don’t want your superstar to be a point guard, but if you have that, then you definitely don’t want your #2 scorer to be your shooting guard.

But for us, Gordon (and maybe now Salmons) is the only guy who can create and score efficiently. So it would’ve been smart to trade Hinrich and re-sign Gordon, and hope we can bring in Bosh in 2010.

than the nocioni farewell post?? really???

The one guy paxdorf, or whatever had it right. It’s not about ‘ball dominant guards’ it’s about play-dominant coaches. Lose BG and it’s going to take at least a couple years to replace him. What is needed is a coach who can get them to play together.

If there is a player that inherently does not mesh with Rose, it would be Deng, not Gordon.

We lost to the Nets….

and this what happens when you don’t have a clear focus on this team. Right now who’s team is this??

Is this Gordon’s team?? Is it Hinrich’s team????

Because it sure as hell ain’t Derrick Rose’s team….maybe that’s why he’s so damn passive, not even caring, not attacking the rim.

God I’m sick of beating good teams and losing to bad ones the very next day. What a joke

Just watching the way NJ plays makes me depressed.

Their offense, running so many picks for Devin Harris, every time down the floor they give the ball to Harris and let him dictate the entire offense. He’s not just a scorer, he controlled the flow of the game in the fourth quarter. He was the one that kept the Nets close and then blew us out.

Even Vince Carter knows to give the ball to Harris and let him set the offense again and again and again and again.

But do we let Derrick do that? No we don’t. Does Gordon or Kirk let Derrick do that? No they don’t. Does VDN let Derrick take the reigns? No he doesn’t.

Even the wins shows it. The losses proves it even more.

This is not Derrick Rose’s team. And it never will be unless either Kirk and Ben leaves, or VDN leaves.

This is beyond depressing. Because just think if Rose was given the freedom that Harris is given…..we probably would have had a better chance of winning this game.

1. Ben Gordon, Bulls
Gordon is an explosive scorer and has one of the sweetest jump shots in the game. But he is undersized and streaky, and he doesn’t play great defense. On virtually every team, his best position will be coming off the bench as a high-scoring sixth man. What is that worth in today’s NBA? Not the $50 million the Bulls offered him and he turned down. Gordon will have plenty of suitors, but as his agent learned the hard way this summer when he sought to get him traded to another team via a sign-and-trade, no one is going to break the bank for Gordon … not even the Bulls now that they’ve added John Salmons to the mix.

I personally don’t like Chad Ford’s analysis on players. I prefer BIll Simmons. But I don’t think Bill Simmons would be any nicer to BG.

Actually the bastid, if you look at this link, it proves that he doesn’t dribble out the clock until 5 seconds are left to shoot it. It happens very little.

The link also proves that he is not ball dominant, as most of his shots are assisted.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI4.HTM

As for your utah comparison, for some reason you fail to mention Boozer and Okur. Boozer has been injured but the jazz are at their best when he is playing alongside williams. Why, Because it gives them TWO dangerous scoring threats.

If the bulls had a big man like boozer, i would be all for letting gordon go. The bulls don’t, and until they do, they will be in need of a guy who can shoot with high efficiency, a guy like Ben Gordon.

…but I think Kirk is way more of a ball-hog. BG can shoot lights out, but somehow at the end of qtrs he tries to take over, and that will never change unless you have a strong coach who stops him from doing it.

See how much Gordon hates Derrick Rose? Late in the Houston game….he didn’t even want to pass him the ball….didn’t even want to look at his face. He hates this man’s GUTS!!!!

We’d love it BUT I don’t think for one second anyone expects it, we just want a team that gells and are suited to each other.

Have you ever noticed that we tend to accept the player that is good D, bad O like a Dennis Rodman. But the player who is good O bad D like Gordon never seems to get respect. That is really not rational.

If you have a Jordan and Pippen who are willing and able to account for half the total FGAs, you can get away with a Rodman. However the current bulls don’t have that, and will greatly miss Gordon’s offense if he goes.