How do you like John Paxson now?
by PatBull on Feb 19, 2009 8:08 PM CST
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PrintIn the last 2 days, John Paxson has traded away an undersized, underperforming sf/pf with a big contract, a locker room cancer and certified ballhog with an even bigger contract, a no-defense, no inside game pf/c and a disappointing defense specialist with no offensive skills and got back a former All Star center with good passing skills on the downslope of his career, an on-the-rise swingman who can score and defend but pouts when he comes off the bench, a tall, outside shooting sf/pf with a bitter history with the Bulls, a center who hasn't played in ages with a big contract, a 1st round draft pick and someone named Roberson.
Seriously, I thought he did pretty well. I think, after he made the first deal and broke up the core that he drafted/constructed, he just went ahead and said, what else can I do out there?
Hinrich is still here so that's a piece he might move later on.
Paxson's trade grade: B+
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I didn't like the Paxson bashing that much.
Even though he pulled off a tandem of really stupid signings, the fact that he got Noah and Thomas here for Eddy freakin’ Curry lingers in the back of my mind when I think about him. I’m sad that this might be his last year as GM.
by NittanyCub on Feb 19, 2009 8:17 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Probably shouldn't read much into this
“Obviously with Larry Hughes’ situation, we had been looking to move him,” Bulls vice president John Paxson said. “The deal we made today was, basically, I told him and his agent, Jeff Wechsler, I would do everything in my power to move him.”
Yeah, hardly any GM's in the NBA have the actual title "General Manager".
VP of Operations. Manager of Basketball Decisions, etc. It’s a weird phenomenon.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
It's really
Just the let Hinrich’s value rot thing that still ires me….though I’m conflicted cuz I like Kirk….
These moves have, to my mind,
reestablished the Bulls as a rising young team with a definitive direction. They’re more balanced, more commited to their new core of young players, and when Kirk is traded they’ll have no real salary commitments beyond the summer of Wade and Bosh. These were the best moves available. The only thing better would have been to deal Kirk and alleviate the guard glut. Whereas before we had an imaginary glut (three good players and two clearly inferior ones) now it’s for real (four good players). Gonna have to see how that shakes out.
Otherwise…hell yeah!
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I see Salmon
putting in some serious minutes at the three spot where the bulls can become more consistent given the roller coaster ride Luol still gives us there.
You also need at least three guards in your rotation and Hinrich gives us the skills of a point and shooting guard.
Not to mention that as a backup, his true value shines threw.
Oh and of course, the main upgrade at the forward’s rotation.
I think it was important
for Pax to break up his core finally. I agree that Hinrich is the next weakest link of the four and could be used to improve this team.
He has made some good deals in getting rid of bad players (thanks once again new york) but it was in his contracts that he made the biggest mistakes. He has made amends with much of these mistakes.
Unfortunately a bunch of young guys who depended more on emotional support then natural skill, was not going to get the job done. We are now a more balanced team in experienced guys as well as position players and salary considerations.
Nice job.
Really? People like Pax now?
Yes, he traded an underperforming SF/PF ballhog with a crappy contract, but he signed that underperforming SF/PF ballhog to that crappy contract earlier on.
And yeah, he traded Gooden and Hughes, but he also traded for them after he couldn’t get anything better for another awful signing, Ben Wallace.
Pax sucks as much as he ever has. Yeah, he’s good at realizing when he has a really crappy player on his team, but he’s terrible at realizing that his mediocre player is mediocre. That’s what leads to the Hinrich, Nocioni, Deng, and Wallace contracts that have set this franchise back two years.
two years?
Wouldn’t that make this the team that beat the hell out of the defending champs, Miami and and gave Detroit a scare? :-) just kidding
But I bet you most of us thought Pax was borderline genius then.
No GM is perfect. Ainge was labeled an idiot for years before hitting the jackpot last year. Kupchak may have gotten Pau Gasol for chump change but he also got Kwame Brown. Mavs let go of Nash, thinking he would get old and slow so he goes for consecutive MVP awards, Kerr and Riley exchange misfits (Shaq and Marion)… The list is long and unending.
I like Paxson now because he’s made moves to correct his mistakes. Can’t realistically expect him not to make any.
I would like Pax a whole lot better
if he would’ve found a way to move Kirk today.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Agreed.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 19, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
The Kirk and/or Deng contracts keeps us on edge ... And keeps Paxson hearing UC booing!
Yet, winning playoff series and advancing meads overpaid contracts!
Just don’t let this team underperform behind these trades, and then not be able to sign Gordon this summer…
The rubber will hit the road for Paxson if this happens!.
man up!
I'd give him an A
I was reading Bill Simmons best and worst contracts here.John Salmons was ranked as the 14th best non-rookie deal in the NBA. Hughes was the 6th worst and Nocioni was the 13th worst. Somehow he got the good one while only giving up bad ones. He also earlier got rid of number 3, Eddy Curry and number 12 Ben Wallace. Paxson has shown the ability to get value for people we have no interest in. Yes, he did create some of these problems, but I don’t think you could predict that Nocioni, Wallace, and the whole Bulls team would fall so far and so fast. At least he showed the ability to recognize mistakes were made and correct them quickly.
We currently don’t have one bad deal on our books except for Hinrich, and that’s only because we got lucky and drafted a star at his position, not because he’s a bad player or got worse. I’m positive he’ll be traded by this time next year for future useful pieces.
Paxson’s made the team ultra-flexible allowing it to go in any direction. Pieces can be picked up, if Rose becomes a superstar and the core starts to gel, to make this a contending team. A superstar can still be traded for in the summer or trade deadline next year. We’ll have the same kind of pieces that made us the top destination for a player like Amare this year. Barring that we have as good a chance as anyone of getting a superstar to join our core in 2010.
He did all this while making us better as a team and not making us worse anywhere in our lineup. He consolidated our talent into a stronger 8 man rotation instead of a weaker 10 man one. We are sure to win more games this year and next year due to the moves he made. body wants.
Some believe that there’s no value in winning a few more games, but I believe that getting to the playoffs and being competitive is vital. Playoff experience may be over-rated, but it’s a huge factor in attracting a top free agent. A bunch of scrappy overachievers is not going to win the title anyime soon. The bulls can only become relevant by acquiring major talent.
The reason why we couldn’t get any free-agent all stars back when McGrady rejected us was because the team stunk, and nobody wants to be the biggest player on a bad team. On the other hand, when the “Baby Bulls” were making noise in the early playoff rounds, we were able to lure top FA Ben Wallace and had Kobe Bryant saying we were the only team he’d want to be traded to. Only by being a piece away from competing for a title, will we get that piece to join us voluntarily.
by runningman on Feb 19, 2009 8:50 PM CST reply actions 10 recs
Bill Simmons article I was referring to
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090212
I realize it’s not an exact science, but anyone on the list is about where they belong.
i agree with all you wrote
RECD
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 19, 2009 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely agree
The Bulls have positioned themselves to be better this year, next year, and have more flexibility for 2010. All this was done without compromising the development time for our young bigs or our stud PG. Our two young bigs are breaking out but they still rack up 4-5 fouls each game so Miller can spell them as well as teach them, and he can play at the elbow, do pick-and-pops with Rose, and potentially get Deng more opps. The only detractors I can see are the BG Brigade who probably are concerned that their man may be relegated to 6th man status or see his MPG drop due to Salmons’ arrival because BG’s success is as important as the team’s success. Otherwise, I see Paxson having knocked the cover off the ball.
by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
Pax is the Skiles of GMs
This is the second time he has cleaned up a complete mess.
When he got the team, he performed a miracle by cleaning up The Sleuth’s muddle in record time. Truly incredible work…
…then he made a mess of things…
Now, he has once again done what I did not think likely—-quickly cleaned up the mess. Yes, it was his own mess. And it was unacceptable that he put the squad that he had this year together. But…again he seems to have turned it around, or at least set the table for someone else to be able to turn it around.
And isn’t that what Skiles does? He takes over a crap team, pushes the guys really hard and makes them play great for a couple years before they quit on him…and he goes to another team and makes the guys play really hard until they quit on him.
They belong together. But it is time for someone (else) to clean up their messes.
Why someone else?
What would someone else have done that Pax couldn’t do?
Or are you waiting for that all knowing GM that blows up a team that went to the second round of the playoffs because he knew they were going to completely suck the next year?
by runningman on Feb 19, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ahem
it’s “Gar Paxdorf”.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 9:59 PM CST reply actions
Super Meh
In light of my better understanding of the James situation, everything is pretty much unimpressive IMO.
Going forward
Noc ~ Salmons
James/Thomas/Roberson ~ Hughes
is basically exchanging our crap for someone else’s crap with little to no financial or on/court ramifications. James may be a slightly more useful trading piece than Hughes would be next year, but it’s hard to say. He certainly won’t be any less useful than our vaunted and soon to be expiring unused Joe Smith trade exception. In any case, the same sort of problem we faced this year, being bumped right up against the LT, will hamper the using James in a trade just like we were hampered this year.
So when you get down to the actual move they made, it was basically trading Gooden, Thabo, and Ben Gordon for one year of Brad Miller and a 25-30 pick in a weak draft.
That’s a pretty steep price.
he's got to move Kirk this summer and retain Ben otherwise this trade deadline will have been
a negative. If he dumps Kirk so we can resign Ben and gets contracts that end in 2010 or before, then I’ll consider this trade deadline a success. Otherwise, it’s not.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 19, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
agree on the 'meh'-ness
I think PatBull was going for some gotcha fanposting or something.
But I do love the crap swap. It’s all on Gordon re-signing. I am not giving up hope, and I pretty much figure if they were going to let him go they decided a long time ago when he turned down the contract, Paxson questioned his love of the game, and Reinsdorf added BG to the ‘do not pay under any circumstances’ list of doom.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
Gordo a Gonner
Yes, Pax says in the presser that he’s appreciative of what Gordon brings to the team, not ruling out a signing this summer..then he turns around and says about Salmons:
He can play screen/roll. He doesn’t always get trapped and overwhelmed by bigger players. He has real good ball skills and the game now requires you to put the ball on the floor and make plays. He can do that."
Which is one way of describing what’s not so great about Gordon’s game. So, Salmon fixes the Gordon problem according to Pax. If so, why would you sign Gordon in summer?
uhhh...because he's good at basketball
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Feb 19, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
Gordo would already be signed if
it was up to me…
but YFB points out, there’s a headwind been blowing down from Bulls brainrust for some time re Gordo….
Remember when Paxson praised Viktor Khryapa
Exactly. Just because Paxson raves about a guy at the press conference doesn’t mean he is going to be some great player.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
This is not "trading Gordon"
to believe that assumes two things that you have no evidence for.
1. That Gordon would have resigned if we did nothing
2. That Gordon won’t resign now.
To add that into any calculatons of this trade is basically making things up.
and, as with me, there's still the first part you have to believe
What if Paxson had already decided they weren’t re-signing Gordon? Not that they want to and now it’s going to make it really hard, but they had decided the team was going to go on without him this off-season? Wouldn’t that make a difference in how the trades went down?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Yeah, it'd mean you shop Gordon extremely hard for anything and perhaps keep Thabo
Because any team that projects to be under the cap next year (Portland, Minny, OKC, etc) could at least give up a pick. And there’d be no reason for Gordon to object to such a trade.
well there'd be some reason
unless they really convinced Gordon that there was no way they’d do a sign/trade. Any trade from the Bulls eliminates them as an option, a team under the cap will be just as under the cap with or without acquiring Gordon.
Though it’d be a nice ploy for Gordon, told by the Bulls there was no chance of a sign/trade, to reply ‘I guess we’ll see’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
everyone says Ben is gone...
But where does he sign? Most teams don’t want to spend big money this year, and the prizes of free agency this year will be big guys like Boozer.
I put the odds of Gordon coming back are better that 50/50.
Bulls can't even offer moderate money
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Meh,
If Del Negro turns into a good coach. He did a good job. If he doesn’t hsi time here was a total waste
Great to pick up another former Gator
Except that – unlike Noah – Roberson’s not very effective and never won shit at UF.
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