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More on the Bulls-Kings deal: they're doing what I hoped, and may not be done

Very weird to see the Bulls pull off an acquisition that I was clamoring for to the point of annoyance. Not that I want the Bulls to read anything here (outside of entertainment, of course) but it's neat that our motivations seem to be in sync: make the team better for a playoff run by helping out Thomas and Noah in the frontcourt.

[Obviously a better way to go was the Amare deal, which is nearly impossible at this point with Gooden's expiring deal now gone. But that situation looks to be dead entirely due to the Suns, and especially as someone who wasn't willing to throw every non-Rose combination in the mix, I cannot complain about 'missing out'.]

Giving Thomas and Noah room and help was supposed to be a benefit of the Wallace deal, but while Drew Gooden was a capable offensive player and seemingly good teammate, he was also clearly playing for a contract given his shot selection (and frequency), and played a position that took more minutes away from Thomas/Noah. And with Nocioni being only effective as a PF (and even that was a stretch this season), it's huge that both players will be going out with only one player, a center, in Brad Miller coming in: a player who can stand behind (if not completely defend) the bigger opponents in the league,  play the high pick/pop with Rose, and pass out of the high post (hello Luol Deng). If committing to Thomas and Noah, the Bulls needed a frontcourt complements who could play outside on offense, and clog the middle on defense. Brad Miller can do both. Strictly  by production he's not much different than Gooden, but he'll be a much better fit.

[And in a much much much less important way, I'll like Miller's redass attitude. He was sort of checked out in Sacramento this year, but I expect a return to a playoff race (a sad one, but still) and the Midwest could at least get him caring again...and he was never the type of player to be intimidated (nor overmatched in size) on the court, something the Bulls need, especially in the frontcourt.]

And while Miller's deal goes into next season and this overall deal does not save much 2010 free-agency money (after a trade kicker, Salmons will be making roughly the same in 2010 as Noc), it makes sense to swap Gooden's expiring deal for a 2010 one, because even if they let Gooden walk after this year, somebody had to be signed in the frontcourt for next season. This way it's Brad Miller for one-year instead of having to re-sign Gooden or some other FA to a multi-year deal. And Miller can now also serve as a big expiring deal for the pre-2010 trading season, not forcing the Bulls to hold on to Larry Hughes merely for that sake.

And Salmons' 2010 figure is actually a player option. It's not inconceivable that he opts out of that deal for a long-term one: at age 30 and after a couple good prime seasons (maybe, more on that later), he could take the opportunity to get a long-term deal that summer instead of playing one more season at less than $7m. This is in contrast to Nocioni's 2010 and 2011 guaranteed salary, with production and mobility trending to the point where he'll barely belong in the league by the end of that deal (not that we can't remember the good times). And judging by the rumor mill, Salmons seems more easy to be flipped in a future deal than Noc would have been.

Not as sure how Salmons helps (as much) immediately on the court, especially since lots of talk from Sacramento was that he was not happy (nor productive) being a bench player. Ideally he'll be taking the role of Thabo, Noc (when he played wing), and Hughes as a backup wing. And that's an upgrade. And while he has horrific adjusted +/- numbers suggesting his defense isn't as good as his rep (and I could use some anecdotal observational analysis of his defense in the first place), it's important that Salmons won't be playing in the PF spot with horrific defense like Nocioni was. As far as Salmons' offense, I really think this is a fluke season. At 29, after 6 seasons of being a 33% shooter from the arc, he's now hitting almost 42%? Again, good for right now if he keeps it up, but I don't believe he's a real 'piece' (like Sam Smith thinks).

And the big problem with bringing in Salmons is that he's yet another addition to the fabled guard glut, being a 2/3 wing player alongside the aformentioned Sefolosha and Hughes as well as Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon. It's both a roster glut as well as a salary glut, as this trade does dramatically increase the Bulls 2009 payroll, not sparing much room under the tax for when Gordon is an unrestricted free agent.

And not just because of that payroll situation looming over their head, but also because it puts all these players' minutes at the mercy of Vinny Del Negro, some more moves should be made before Thursday afternoon's deadline. And not just having Larry Hughes sent home. Lots more shuffling can be done between Hughes, Thabo (why even pay him $2.75m next season with Salmons on the roster?) and Hinrich to both move some 2009 money as well as free up minutes on the roster (as in, be willing to take back guys who can't play).

Salmons can still be kept as Ben Gordon leverage/insurance (and I think a more practical one than Hinrich, making less money and being a more natural wing scorer), but they don't have to actively push Gordon out the door by not being able to make a competitive offer after taking away his minutes the last few months of the season.

And shockingly, with talk of Hinrich+Thabo being sent to Minnesota for expirings, or the various reported Hughes dump jobs scenarios, the Bulls look to be doing more shuffling to alleviate this very issue.

I'm not sure who's running the show (the consensus seems to be calling it the  amalgam:  'Gar Paxdorf') , but I like what they're doing.

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I'm liking this deal as well

but I don’t think enough is made of these guard glut situations. Once again we have five guys that can all make a case for getting big minutes (six if you wanna count Lindsey Hunter, but who would?). In my opinion, there really is something to be said for having defined roles on a basketball team. I don’t think it’s something that you can measure statistically, but it definitely exists.

So, if the team remains as is, I fully expect this situation to get crappy quickly. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that this team starting playing their best basketball once Larry Hughes was sent packin’ and Drew Gooden got hurt. The team began to know eachother’s role and they started to jell. So it definitely bugs me when I see this report. If they can move Hinrich for expirings, I think it’s time for Pax to cut the cord. I know it’s not the way he envisioned Hinrich leaving, but I think it has to be that way. IF Minnesota is still willing.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 19, 2009 1:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

even if Minnesota isn't willing, I gotta think Portland would jump on a Blake + expirings (Frye, Shavlik)

deal for Hinrich. That’s about 6 million less that the Bulls have to pay for Hinrich next year and Blake expires in 2010. So we’d be completely out from under Kirk’s contract by 2010.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Feb 19, 2009 1:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just really wanna see this roster cleaned up

Let’s get it to the point where there is a nice, tidy 8-9 man rotation going. I think this team would really benefit from that.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 19, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you and honestly with Salmons coming in, I have no problem with dealing

Thabo for essentially nothing (i.e. a second round draft pick) if only to clear out some of the guard glut. Then you’d have (assuming you do the POR trade) Rose, Blake, BG, and Salmons with Hunter and Hughes glued to the bench. That’s much more manageable, especially because Salmons can swing between SF and SG.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Feb 19, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, and it clears nearly $2.8m off next year's books

every million counts this close to tax-ville.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 1:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

meh

at least there’d be no temptation to play Blake at the 2. So he could get 10-12 behind Rose and like it.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 1:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

plus, since Vinny is a boob, having Blake on a $4 million a year salary should

be enough of an indicator to him that he needn’t play Blake entitlement minutes above 10-12 minutes behind Rose.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Feb 19, 2009 1:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn' worry about Salmons and a guy like Blake and their minutes

They’re good enough players to get minutes. it just might not be as many with the Bulls. We could still make moves over the Summer. Salmons and Blake could just be the exact type of player contenders need to shore up their roster. They have manageable contracts and they can both play effectively in the NBA.

With Kirk’s, Noc’s, and quite possibly Larry Hughes out of the way we gain some many additional advantageous options.

I’m thrilled right now.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Feb 19, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

it’s not just salary, this will be a mess of players who need minutes, with Vinny the one charged to sort it out.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 1:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and as much as I rag on Vinny, that's not really fair to him

I give him props for stapling Hughes to the bench. That took some balls.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Feb 19, 2009 1:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely, as much fun as it is to rip on Vinny, Pax is putting him in some real shitty situations

NBA players get very adversarial when their minutes are taken away, and usually they begin to test their coach. Vinny’s been put in a bad spot since the moment he walked in the door and Pax deserves his fair share of blame.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 19, 2009 2:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought the same thing at first...

… but then the Thabo instead Rose play happened. Nobody except Vinny made the decision to take out the best player on the team and put in someone who had played 6 min with 0pts, 0rebs, and 0 assists. That is inexcusable, he is a coach in the NBA making big $ so he should at least be able to make an easy decision, such as, putting the best player on the team on the court for the last play of the game.

by Rainman1789 on Feb 19, 2009 3:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see this as setting up a play for LaFrentz & Amare

Blazers have been interested in Salmons & Hinrich for a while.
Suns have been lusting after the Lafrentz expiring contract

I have no inside information, but watch out for this 3-way:

Pdx receives: Hinrich & Salmons

Phx receives: Tyrus, Sergio & Lafrentz

Chi receives: Amare

It makes sense, if the Suns need the $.

Regardless, I like the trade. How could you not?

by fizertime on Feb 19, 2009 2:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

salmons cant be traded in a multiplayer deal for 60 days

so no can do

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Feb 19, 2009 3:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why

is mine atop yours, yet one minute behind? :-0

::theme from twilight zone::

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Feb 19, 2009 3:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and now

it isn’t! WOOOAAAHHHH!!!!

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Feb 19, 2009 3:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Salmons can't be traded, or "flipped" now.

Deng can though (but has the BYC). Amare had 29 at the half in tonight’s game BTW.

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Feb 19, 2009 3:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Worst time for us for them to play back to back against LAC

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Feb 19, 2009 3:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Portland could still be in play

If they wanted Salmons, we could ship him back out:

  • Blake
  • Outlaw/Frye + Webster

by Sports2 on Feb 19, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I got

Rose 34
Gordon 34
Hinrich 16
Salmons 32
Deng 34
Thomas 32
Noah 30
Miller 28

I can’t believe MIN won’t give up something of value for Kirk. Lakers got a 2nd rounder from Memphis for Mihm, for cryin’ out loud.

I have a feeling BG is gone, and maybe we get something back like a pick in a sign and trade, or maybe we get nothin’.

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Feb 19, 2009 3:00 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Why not this?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2ecw5

Rose 36/Hinrich 12
Gordon 32/Salmons 6/ Hinrich 10
Deng 32/Salmons 12/Thabo 4
Tyrus 36/ Noah 12
Noah 24/ Millar 20/ Gray 4

Jerome James and Malik Rose sit on the bench and keep it warm we could also get some draft picks from newyork

new york needs a sg, we give them two, and they both expire by 2010 so they should be happy. we get a tighter rotation while also getting more cap room so gordon should be set to stay here, plus we can actually nab a free agent in this offseason or just hold out until 2010 where we still have millers expiring contract…..

and yea i sort of posted this elsewhere…..i think it all works and i dont see any flaw with it in terms of the rules of the league….i think it would apeal to the knicks, and i think if we are willing to get rid of hinrich for just exprings, then we should be more than happy to get rid of those two for expiring. Plus hughes really wants out…..this should be a real win/win situation for all….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 19, 2009 3:15 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What

I saw from your link was Thabo + Hughes for James + Rose, so that’s pretty one-sided. I am telling you, that if you don’t think Sefolosha can play, send him to NYK. He’s so much a D’Antoni type! At any rate, you need to remove all of Thabo’s 4 mins up there, LOL!

Kirk to MIN for McCants is just as “bad”. It all depends on the draft pick(s) you could get back, if any. I give yesterday’s trade an A, so maybe Gar Paxdorf can be trusted to do the best and most brilliant thing. Even if it occurs over the summer.

I personally like the idea of having a whole lot of room for 2010. A lot more than paying both BG and Kirk past then!

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Feb 19, 2009 4:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ONe sided??

Pro bulls or pro knicks??? i think talent wise its one sided in favor of nyk, they get exactly the players they need, while they still have money to go after "the ’bron " For the bulls we do what matt pointed out we needed to do. We get rid of the guard glut by getting rid of two guards. We get more instant cap relief without picking up any kind of players that we actually have to use, and we give vinny a forced tight rotation. IN that sense i think its equally benneficial. In the offseason then you can get rid of other contracts like kirk or ben in order to make room for 2010…..

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 19, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

why are gray and thabo even playing?

this trade seems to have set up a real easy 8 man rotation in my eyes.

Rose 36 / Hinrich 12
Gordon 32 / Hinrich 12 / Salmons 4
Deng 34 /Salmons 14
Tyrus 34 /Noah 10 / Deng 4
Noah 22 / Miller 26

I don’t think Thabo or Gray are worthy of playing with the current group. The Bulls don’t value Thabo, they were obviously willing to include him in any deal imaginable.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 19, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yea my fault

im not sure why i put thabo in…because he would be traded…….so give the rest of thabos minutes to salmons playing the 3…and yea gray doesnt have to play, but maybe at some point you want to rest both noah and thomas so you go in witha gray and miller (hahah) lineup…or something….but yea thabo shouldnt be in it…

BUt this is possible right, and i think thats a real tight and equally very nice rotation, we arent taking anything from the knicks that they would want to keep, we are giving them that 2010 caprelief they want, we are getting back caprelief for this year to be flexible this offseason, i thought it was a great trade where we dont have to sacrifice our better players and still get to avoid the guard glut (get rid of two swing mans and give those minutes to salmons who can play behind deng at the 3 more than play behind gordon at the 2, so it shouldnt piss gordon off either)

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 19, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

salmons should get more than 18 minutes

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Feb 19, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I found this interesting...

Was playing with the trade machine, trying to find a good way to Send Hinrich to Portland and get Amare from Phoenix in a three way deal with our new players…

If we make this deal…

… Portland sends out Steve Blake and Raef LaFrentz (who is injured and doesn’t play) and they get back Kirk Hinrich and Loul Deng… that sounds like an awesome trade for them… but Hollinger’s calculations say that they will LOSE and extra six games if they make that trade.

Me thinks the system needs more tinkering.

Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.

by kidronmusic on Feb 19, 2009 3:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

hmmmm give up on amare, he ain't going nowhere

Derrick Rose got Freakin Skillz. When are we going to add a 7th championship?

by broseleay301 on Feb 19, 2009 3:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I did...

But, ya know. It doesn’t hurt to play with the numbers.

Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.

by kidronmusic on Feb 19, 2009 3:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a lot to give up.

We then would have this?

Rose 36 / Blake 12
Gordon 38 / Thabo 10
Salmons 36 / Thabo 12
Amar’e 38 / Noah 10
Noah 20 / Miller 24 / Gray 4

by Unrealcity on Feb 19, 2009 3:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

That wasn’t my ideal trade… I was just posting that to point out that I didn’t think Hollinger system of calculating future wins and losses was very good.

Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.

by kidronmusic on Feb 19, 2009 4:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can this work if Salmons is in a separate deal?

First this – http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=afwl8m

Then this – http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=amxdt2

We end up with this.

Rose 36 / Blake 12
Gordon 38 / Thabo 10
Deng 38 / Thabo 10
Amar’e 38 / Noah 10
Noah 20 / Miller 24 / Gray 4

Now we’re talking. If Amar’e doesn’t work (i.e. play defense), we let him walk in 2010 and sign Bosh.

by Unrealcity on Feb 19, 2009 4:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably

we “lose” 6 games because:

a) Deng is actually valuable
b) Hollinger’s formula doesn’t have Salmons on our team yet

--Torch

by torch on Feb 19, 2009 6:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Click the link...

I was saying that Portland would lose six games… according to Hollinger. If they gave up Blake and the Expiring contract of LaFrentz, and got back Deng and Hinrich.

And Salmons is there.

Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.

by kidronmusic on Feb 19, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like our chances for the playoffs now. Im curious is salmons capable of playing the 2?

i think he can, we added another scoring threat, and he is tall. If he can play the 2 it would be great. Miller, Thomas, Deng, Salmons, and Rose, is a nice lineup come playoff time.

Derrick Rose got Freakin Skillz. When are we going to add a 7th championship?

by broseleay301 on Feb 19, 2009 3:28 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Salmons is

a capable two when he is starting…. especially this year, because he has boosted his 3pt% to 42%.

He played the two often in Sac town, particularly before they trade Ron Artest.

But then, this all goes out the window (historically speaking) if he doesn’t start. Cause then he sucks at basketball.

Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.

by kidronmusic on Feb 19, 2009 3:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So is this the writing on the wall for Ben Gordon?

While I think the Bulls really want to keep him, they will obviously need to shed at least $5M in salary before the summer to make him a competitive offer…I like the Larry Hughes to New York deal, but I have been proposing that since the summer…if such a deal does not get done, Gordon is as good as gone.

The other question is will Vinny DelBoylan have the balls to move Gordon back to the bench where he belongs and start John Salmons?

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 19, 2009 7:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This summer Gordon is gone.....after years of argueing why would he stay when he can leave

and a team somewhere will pick him up and pay him. The only silver lining we may have is that the overall state of the economy may have screwed Ben Gordons chances of getting really BIG bucks, so he may have to settle for less.

Ben is a professional, but I believe that he has had it with the Bulls and will play anywhere else but the Bulls next year. Salmons should start, but we will see.

by Bart71 on Feb 19, 2009 8:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

how is that a silver lining

holding a grudge against BG, much?

--Torch

by torch on Feb 19, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Losing Ben Gordon and replacing him with John Salmons...

Is a downgrade for the Bulls. I realize it’s unavoidable, but can we all stop fooling ourselves into believing they are even remotely the same caliber of players please.

"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"

by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 19, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

there's a lot of that going around today

it was a bitter sweet trade in the event that it got Noc off our hands but it basically spells the end for Ben (unless something happens in the next 3 hours). Salmons does not equalize Ben.

http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/

by NormVanBeer on Feb 19, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

indeed

it’s a downgrade and it sucks. Plus Salmons is 3 and a half years older.

I guess if Gordon does leave (I do not endorse pushing him out, as the Bulls seem to be fixated on), Salmons is a better fallback than Hinrich, both in ability and price.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't seen much to suggest that Salmons is better than Kirk

I think we’d magically been able to make Noc disappear, I’d have rather gone with Kirk and Thabo than Salmons.

by Sports2 on Feb 20, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Quick question

Did the Bulls send out their trade exception to Sac Town? How else did the 2nd trade between Portland/Sacramento go through?

by kingj41 on Feb 19, 2009 9:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I believe that's what happened

and Portland wound up with the TE.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So now Portland has 13 million in cap space and a TE

With an owner who will pay the tax…………..just so lame.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 19, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they don't have that much cap space thanks to Darius Miles

and Portland papers report the TE as something like $3m now.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hollinger just explained something interesting.

The savings of $2 million from Diogu to Ruffin is more like $4 million since Miles puts them back in the tax. Plus they get a $3 million TE. Not a bad haul for someone who never plays.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Feb 19, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe miller will fill in

for noce very nicely

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Feb 19, 2009 9:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

We could use

some tough screens and sharp elbows.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Feb 19, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Devin Harris is a drama queen

How else do you think he gets to the line so often?

He’s learned from Dwayne Wade how to get yours in the NBA by selling your calls.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Feb 19, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

stop saying things like selling calls

its bringing back noce memories… it makes it harder to accept the fact that he’s gone.

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Feb 19, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A contrary view

This trade sucks because:
1) Expect Noah’s minutes to drop significantly. He’s averaged nearly 30 minutes a game over his last 10, thanks to Gooden being out. If VDN has any sense, he’ll figure out how to divide up the PF/C minutes between Miller, Noah, and Tyrus so that Noah and Tyrus keep getting close to 30 minutes a game. But he doesn’t, so expect Noah to be benched and get 20 minutes if he’s lucky.
2) I’d much rather have Ben Gordon as my starting SG than John Salmons. Salmons is the classic guy putting up good numbers on a terrible team. Over his career, he’s been significantly less productive offensively than BG, and is an equally terrible defender. His arrival means we’ll lose a #3 overall pick for nothing.
3) This team was already bad defensively, and with Miller on board, we get even worse. I don’t care about his “redass attitude”—wait, isn’t that a synonym for “gritty”?—he can’t guard anyone.
4) I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you think we’re guaranteed to get a superstar FA in 2010, keep dreaming.

vanillablue.wordpress.com

by vanillablue on Feb 19, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

how are they worse defensively

Miller’s replacing Gooden and Noc. At least Miller will stand there and have his man in his line of vision.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mostly disagree

1. How will Noah’s minutes drop? Even if you pay Miller 36 minutes a game that leaves 60 minutes between Tyrus and Noah. Personally, I expect Miller to play about 30 minutes a game, and to split minutes equally with Noah with Tyrus getting the most minutes at the 4/5.

2. I’d rather have BG to but the bulls don’t want to commit that much salary to him, especially if it means they won’t land a big time free agent in 2010. We don’t necessarily have to lose BG for nothing, especially if we move Hinrich, but it is a possiblity.

3. We aren’t worse defensively. Miller just by knowing the proper place to be will be light years ahead of Gooden and Nocioni. When you include the fact that Gray won’t play as well, that is a net positive.

4. Huh? Who said we are guaranteed anything. I don’t get your point.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 19, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

noah's minutes won't go down

but he’ll spend more time at the 4. when ty got in foul trouble, it was bad news since literally he’s our only power forward…

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Feb 19, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like this deal..

…very well done considering the constraints within which Pax is operating. not the same as getting Amar’e but as you point out, that was driven the Suns’ decisions. Pax has redeemed himself a little bit, I just hope that VDN continues to give Noah and Ty big minutes. Also, would like to see Hinrich gone, not b’cos I dislike him, but the glut at guard is crazy.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Feb 19, 2009 11:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sacramento broadcaster was on 670Thescore today

and he was very high on Salmons.He said he is quiet guy,works hard every day,plays very good D,can shoot,and was maybe best overall player in Sac.
Broadcaster might be litlle bias,but he was watching every Salmons’ game.
I’m very interested to see if it’s really that good.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Feb 19, 2009 11:52 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if he said anything about Salmons and minutes played

Also, starting versus coming off the bench.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Feb 19, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He said he plays much better when he starts.

But he is not gonna bitch about nonstarting issue.He said Salmons will not come to Chicago and demand starting position.He knows he is new and he will not demand anything.
It was encouraging to hear that.I just hope it will be like this.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Feb 19, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can someone explain trade exceptions to me?

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Feb 19, 2009 1:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

basically it's a 'non-simultaneous trade'

due to the 125% rule, a team can trade can exist within cap rules but send out more money than they take in. Whatever the net value in that trade can be traded later (up to a year). It can’t be combined with a player (or another trade exception) however.

here’s much more.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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