Bulls/Wolves talking trade (to facilitate Amare deal or not)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 12:14 AM CST
Email
PrintAdrian Wojnarowski at Yahoo! (ht: RealGM board)
The Chicago Bulls and Minnesota Timberwolves have been exchanging trade proposals that include a possible three-way deal with the Suns that would send Stoudemire to the Bulls, a Western Conference executive said Tuesday night.
So far, nothing that the Bulls and Wolves have brainstormed has brought the Suns closer to moving Stoudemire. Nevertheless, one proposed deal would send Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas to Phoenix, along with the expiring contracts of Chicago’s Drew Gooden and Minnesota’s Jason Collins. Minnesota would receive the player it covets – Chicago guard Kirk Hinrich – and Bulls guard Thabo Sefolosha.
That three-way scenario remains improbable, but there are several possibilities between Chicago and Minnesota that are alive. The Bulls want expiring contracts and draft picks to dump Hinrich and forward Andres Nocioni. Chicago has shopped them separately to several teams, but sources say Minnesota has no interest in Nocioni.
However, sources say the Wolves and Bulls are discussing Hinrich and Sefolosha for Collins and Brian Cardinal. The Wolves are intrigued with Hinrich’s ability to play the point and off-guard and see him as a good complement to Randy Foye. Collins and Cardinal have shorter-term contracts that bring Chicago payroll relief.
The Bulls have also had discussions with the Los Angeles Clippers regarding center Chris Kaman, one Western Conference executive said.
(emphasis mine)
Whether it's to better facilitate an Amare deal or not, good to know the Bulls realize dumping some long-term bench money (someone alert the Chicago media that Nocioni is not valued!) is a priority regardless of whether it lands a bigger fish right away.
While getting only salary relief (neither Cardinal or Collins can really play, even for this frontcourt-starved team) for Hinrich and Thabo is a bit of a bummer, the proposed deal for Collins/Cardinal would save the Bulls (by my late-night calculation, anyway) $5.5m off next year's payroll (actually adds $500k this season), to sign Gordon and simultaneously take the Wolves out of the running to bid on Gordon.
236 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
YES YES YES!
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:16 AM CST reply actions
Hinrich for expirings and picks and Noc to the Clips for Kaman would be fabulous.
*note – I know the Noc for Kaman swap is a pipe dream. Noc sucks, but Kaman isn’t THAT much better, just better fits a need.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
are you upset?
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
I'm fully of glee and all kinda of great emotion
Salary cap relief is as good as landing a big fish, like Matt mentions
I used to believe that too...
But we’ll most likely do nothing with the money we save.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
even if all we do with it is retain Ben Gordon, that in and of itself is
so much win.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's true...
I guess getting Kirk off the books would help to that end, but I’ve long since given up hope that any team is dumb enough to trade for Nocioni.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
You might be surprised
Minnesota just has Mike Miller and Kevin Love to shoot from outside which is why noce has no appeal at all.
yeah, I honestly wish we could buy him out, but his contract is so long that that's not
possible. Damn that signing really really sucks.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions
At least it was front loaded...
Not that it will make watching him hobble up and down the court for 6.65 mil in 2012 any easier.
Yeah, I wish we could buy him out too. Have the Bulls ever done that though?
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
probably not, they are only comfortable paying coaches not to coach (Skiles)
and idiots with motorcycles not to play (J-Will). Otherwise, JR’s pocketbook remains closed.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 1:07 AM CST up reply actions
khrappy
they bought him out and sent him to russia remember. I thought paxson was once again a real nice guy (you couldve traded him or something pax!!!) but khrappy was pretty harsh with his words when leaving chicago.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Too bad. I think Hinrich would be good in Minnesota.
Noce would have even less use there, seeing as they have Mike Miller and Kevin Love.
That being said, Hinrich can only bring us cap relief?
Seems like a waste. (altho he also relives the glut in the backcourt. And we all know Collins and Cardinal won’t be playing much)
they did mention we might be able to snag a pick from it. Draft picks from the T-Wolves
could be very valuable, especially since Al Jeff is out for the year.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
That sucks for kirk
in memphis…i mean who would wnat to go to mini??? Cmon pax, be that good man that you are and send kirk somewhere like portland where at least hes around good company and has a role on a team trying to win.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 18, 2009 12:34 AM CST up reply actions
who gives a shit about where Kirk ends up? I'm concerned with what's best for the team.
Dumping Kirk’s salary is a huge win. He’s being paid way too much to be a backup PG and back up 2 guard. Resigning Ben Gordon is way more important to the long-term future of this team. If we can snag a first round pick for Kirk and expirings, I’m totally sold.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure, he's being paid too much money, but he still has value as a player
and actually has value to this team. I’m not so sure I would just give him away. It just seems unnecessary. Noc is the type of player you dump in a heartbeat. But Hinrich, with a deal that declines in value, plus being a really good 3rd guard, makes me think I’d rather pass. Something better will come along
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 18, 2009 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
Sure his deal declines...
But not nearly as fast as his skills have.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions
I wasn't trying to be snarky there...
Just pointing out that Kirk isn’t really needed on this Bulls team. IMO.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
lol
I’m not adamant about keeping Kirk at all. It’s just that, I get the feeling from everything that’s been reported, that Kirk has more value than just a money dump. I could be very wrong, so I really wouldn’t oppose this trade all that much, I would just be a little disappointed.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 18, 2009 12:57 AM CST up reply actions
Kirk does have more value that just a money dump..but
at his present salary amount and the limited declined weighted against his value he brings to this team considering salary cap issues ……
A salary dump is idea for the Bulls.
Minny also might also be a good fix with Randy. V. (I guess Telfair just aint cutting it). Plus it’s closer to his home town than Portland. I’m most certain, Portland has no intesest in Hinrich, anyway!
So regardless if Kirk leads a team and wins 33 wins or 27 wins a year in Chicago or Minny, it really doesn’t matter because neither team is near winning a championship.
Regardless on Noc, Bulls please make this deal.
Good Bye to Kirk’s Contract, yet sorry to see Kirk himself leave.
man up!
Portland has no intesest in Hinrich, anyway!
not true
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 18, 2009 6:01 AM CST up reply actions
I don't get this...
why wouldn’t we just salary dump him to Portland? Must be picks?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
i know your not being snappy but i have to argue
i dont think his skills declined, i think they stated the same, and i think the position he was two years ago, when people still listened to skiles and he and ben gordon were running the show together, i think that position was taken away from him (deng got better so the offense changed a bit to let deng flourish) then when boylan came into the picture….well everything kinda went downhill, and kirks biggest problem last year might have been more that he was getting fouls and techs left and right which basically translated into the mopey iowan.
So he probably wont get much better, but i think even this year he has shown that he can play a higher level then most people here percieve from him…and thats why i was always a fan of him going to portland (where a guy like brandon roy can take all the pressures off of kirk and be surrounded by all sorts of good natured role players) because i think he would be successful and it would really give portland a big oomph at that guard spot and solidify the offense and defense…..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
yes, because when an individual
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 2:01 AM CST up reply actions
damn it,
what I meant to say was
“yes, when an individual’s contributions drop off in every measurable way, then surely it’s the fault of his teammates and not his fault at all. jesus, you Kirk apologists are too much.”
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 2:02 AM CST up reply actions
And you Kirk Haters are just as bad.
Kirk is a system guy. He’s not very good on a free flowing create-your-own-offense team like we have been this year, (and last). He played very well with great players on Team USA. I think he could be a very good point guard in Portland. And this isn’t some, “I like Kirk, so send him somewhere that he will be happy.” Portland has some pieces that we could use. They also have expiring contracts that we could use. They also would work nicely in a three-way with the Suns. So I would much rather do something with Portland (win, win) than trading for Brian Cardinal.
I'm in total agreement, but I don't think Portland wants to take on Kirk's contract
With all of the existing talent they have …. at the PG and also their need to resign good players they all ready have?
But if a Kirk, for LaFrenz contract was available.. If I Bulls mgmt I’d take in in a heart beat! I’d also throw Deng in, if possible, for the right Portland piece in return..
man up!
or it could be you know, that he's just who he is
and that’s a slightly below average offensive point guard who plays above average D. he had exactly ONE good season on both offense and defense, and that was the year everyone else played really well 06-07. Kirk got paid a bit more than he’s worth even if he was starting and now he’s coming off the bench, so he should be shipped out for expirings to sign Ben Gordon. Would I prefer if we got some more value for him? Yes, of course, why wouldn’t I want more value for him? But, when i comes down to it, the most important thing is shedding his longterm contract.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
Letting
Gordon go would be better for the long term future of this team than signing him to a 5yr deal
no it wouldn't.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
sounds better every time you say it.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
and I still laugh everytime you reply to it.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 18, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
I obviously have no idea if this is true of Kirk
But not everyone loves living in a major city. For all you guys crap on living in Oklahoma – and me, too at times :) – I far prefer living here to Chicago or any other major urban area. Kirk might be fine with being in Minnesota. It’s not like Minneapolis is Nowheresville.
And actually, I don’t know that Minnesota looks all that bad for the future. Prior to AJ going down they were one of the hotter teams since McHale took over. I’m sure many players would prefer to stay where they’re at (Shawn Marion excluded), but he could end up preferring to start there than come off the bench here.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
heh
but he could end up preferring to start there than come off the bench here.
id take that bet….i think hed rather come off the bench here then start for the twolves. By the time that team gets any good kirk will have become just a savvy veteran, that team doesnt seem to have any real direction, they seem more lost to me then the bulls do.. With chandler with the thunder, i think the twolves will basically be the worst team in the leage from here on out. Memphis has gay and mayo, clippers have the bigmen, i can think of a worse team then the wolves. Kirk goes there and i think his career will never get any better and he will never get a chance to really show his stuff.
Of course thats my view as a guy who is definitely a kirk apologist…for the bulls….well if they got the twolves draft picks we could get maybe Thabeet and have another draft pick for leverage for another trade but….i gotta say i dont want anymore rookies and i cant think of any worthwhile trade where our own draft pick wouldnt be enough.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I think people get too caught up in where Minnesota has been
They have a winning record since Christmas – which the Bulls do not. They have a 5 game winning streak in that period – the Bulls needed games against the Clips and Kings just to get a 3 game winning streak. Jefferson is a stud, Kevin Love is way better than I expected him to be, Foye has played well at SG.
So yeah, they play in the West and have a history of incompetence – but I still say things are looking way up there. Add a quality PG there and they’ve got a solid core going forward. They likely will be one of the worst teams the rest of this season, but what team wouldn’t have issues after losing their leading points and rebounds guy?
You know I’m a Kirk fan and think most people here are way to anxious to trade him for nothing and far too quick to dismiss his contributions to the team. And yeah, I’d rather see him on the Blazers than TWolves. I just don’t see Minnesota as being banished to hell.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Kirk is welcome on the Blazers anytime
as long as he comes alone (keep gooden and noc the hell away)
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 18, 2009 5:59 AM CST up reply actions
That problem has been solved.
YAY!!!
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 18, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
Matt is going to trade you, Sue and piccolomair to Canis Hoopus,
if Hinrich is traded to the Wolves. ;)
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 18, 2009 3:57 AM CST up reply actions
the deal has been agreed upon
waiting for the ink to dry.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
So is Sue...
Kirk’s house that is
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
The only thing creepier than the thought of that...
Is how often it seems to be brought up around here.
Seriously guys, give it a rest.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing a lot of these guys have never talked to a girl before...
real or otherwise.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
You'll just have to wait and see
Don’t leave us sue!!!
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
apparently not.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
i see
waiting for the ink to dry.
so im not going anywhere it seems…. ;)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 18, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, sadly, I've been a great frustration to Matt
I mean, who would want someone with the occasionally differing view to post on their blog?
He shouldn’t have to put up with this, darn it!
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
nah, you're all cool. Nothing wrong with valuing Hinrich more than I do.
(except Sue)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
It's not like Minneapolis isn't a whole heck of a lot closer to Sewer City.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Did you see yesterdays trade?
Chandler for Joe Smith and Wilcox?
This is the enviroment the NBA is in right now. Cardinal and Collins is a steal for us in this market. Basically we will be lucky to get rid of any contracts that run past 2010.
by J Theory on Feb 18, 2009 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I like Jason Collins!
He’s had a reputation for being a great defender, and the stats back it up for the most part. A huge +5.35 defensive adjusted +/- last year, a career DRtg of 103, and an average of about 3.5 defensive win shares per 2460minutes (30mpg for 82 games) for his career. He’s obviously tailed off in the past couple years, but we’ve been looking for a meaty interior defender option who won’t eat up Tyrus’ and Jo’s minutes, and there he is.
Also,
Is it possible that Brian Cardinal is actually decent? His career numbers – 14.4 PER, .555 TS% – aren’t bad at all… in fact, they’re just as good as Kirk’s career 14.8 PER and .521 TS%. His career offensive rating (109) and defensive rating (103) are very good, and his win share rate (12.5 career in 4723 minutes) is starter worthy.
On top of that, in his two seasons where he actually played (21.5mpg in 03-04, 24.7mpg in 04-05) he posted a ridiculous 19.4 PER with a .626 TS% (Amare who?) and then a still semi-respectable 14.0 PER with a .510 TS%.
What the hell? I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone.
I would say those numbers are definitely inflated...
I’ve watched Cardinal play in college and the pros and I haven’t been impressed.
Below is a scouting report I found. I can’t vouch for the site I found it on, but their analysis is pretty spot on.
http://www.nbapostup.com/content/brian-cardinal
Brian Cardinal is definitely not a scoring threat
Never looks to shoot
Shoots a three at any time
Solid from three point land
Definitely will not get to the line much
Not a good free throw shooter
Solid shooting ability from mid-range
Weak driving to the basket
Poor inside game
Not a threat in the running game
Brian Cardinal is an average offensive rebounder
Good defensive rebounder
Brian Cardinal is not a real passer
Bad ball handling skills
Brian Cardinal is not a player who will get steals
Poor shot blocker
Bad fighting off wide open shots
Bad perimeter defender
Pretty good post defender
Can not defend in transition
Brian Cardinal is not overly strong
Very little quickness
Brian Cardinal is not really an NBA level basketball player
In my opinion he would provide salary relief and little else.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 1:42 AM CST up reply actions
Kind of a weird scouting report
since basic stats refute a bunch of those…
“Brian Cardinal is not a player who will get steals” – he’s averaging 1.8 per 36 for his career.
“Definitely will not get to the line much” – 4.3 FTA per 36 for his career
“Not a good free throw shooter” – He’s shooting 85% career…
They are based on last year in Memphis...
He’s a 9 year vet and definitely past his prime already. Thinking about him in regards to “Per 36 for his career” will only cause problems.
That being said he’s shooting 80% from the line this year, but it’s also only 16-20 out of 35 game appearances… You see what I’m getting at here?
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 2:07 AM CST up reply actions
The words "Per" and "Brian Cardinal"...
Belong nowhere near each other.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 2:09 AM CST up reply actions
Hey, I'm with you
I don’t think Cardinal should be doing much for our team, but I was just pleased/shocked to see that his career numbers are pretty good. We’re talking about dumping one of our former “core” pieces in Hinrich for tablescraps, and I’m looking for small victories here :)
Also...
If he needs to play 25 minutes a game to be productive then we definitely don’t want to entertain the idea of playing him. Do you really want to see Brian Cardinal for 25 minutes a game?
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 1:50 AM CST up reply actions
Nocioni
In ‘03-’05 he was a better (smarter/less hacking) Noc. Now, with the bad wheels he’s what Noc is slowly becoming.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
I like that comparison, his
career per36 numbers are scarily close to Noc’s. So basically we’d be getting an injury-prone Nocioni, meaning a guy who will barely play but can occasionally come in and knock down a 3? Sounds good to me.
I'm completely lost now...
Is that sarcasm?
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 2:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, nope
I like Noc – 6’8" guys who can play a little D, rebound a little, and knock down a 3 have some value. My problem with him is he’s playing 25mpg and taking minutes away from Deng, Tyrus, Thabo, and even Noah when he’s not an improvement now and won’t help us in the future.
Cardinal, it seems, gives us all of that, but because of his injuries and because of his reputation, he’ll get maybe 10mpg and a bunch of DNPs. He’ll be like Aaron Gray – riding a lot of pine unless the right matchup (Yao, Shaq) comes up, and in those cases he’ll help.
he's always graded out pretty well by adjusted plus minus as well.
+4.88(!) last year.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 2:04 AM CST up reply actions
Dear God...
Are we all talking about the same player here?
Brian Cardinal is another Simmons or Ruffin. The only time he should ever crack our rotation is if we are up by 20 with a minute left or down by 30 with 5 to go.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 2:15 AM CST up reply actions
I think everyone is a little shocked, but the numbers say what the numbers say
and they basically say that this guy has gotten a bum reputation when he’s been a productive player.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 2:22 AM CST up reply actions
Fair warning though...
Nocioni has the best plus minus on the Bulls, and frankly I’m not entirely comfortable that he shares a locker room with our players.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 2:32 AM CST up reply actions
adjusted plus minus is more useful, and he's not close to the best on the team
in that statistic. the TS% and PER’s have been shown to be very good approximations of offensive value and Cardinal does pretty well there too. Defensive value is tougher to measure, but adjusted plus minus does a pretty good job of capturing it and Cardinal is generally a positive by that metric. Also, traditionally Noc has been a net negative in adjusted plus minus and that was even in his good years.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 2:43 AM CST up reply actions
He's been hurt a lot
And mostly after signing that big contract.
So, I guess he’s the sort of guy who is good when he’s healthy, but even then he’s not good enough to justify his contract. But, if healthy, he could be a better, cheaper version of Noc on a shorter contract.
If we’re getting Minny’s pick, I can certainly live with this deal.
As my former baskteball coach
would say a 30-30 man, only gets tick when team is up or down by 30 w/ 30 seconds to go
Jason Collins
is another Micheal Ruffin player more useful wearing a suit than a NBA uniform
Here's something I worked out
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cpgz32
Gets a lot of teams looking to make moves involved.
Gives the Suns three expiring contracts +Tyrus.
Obviously draft picks would be involved.
Minny gets their guards.
We get Stat and some cap relief.
man, I hate the new trade machine
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Horrible Idea
Bulls would have no depth of any kind after this season. That’s assuming Gordon doesn’t resign even though the bulls would have the money to pay him, but I still think he’s waiting for the day to walk out holding his middle finger in the air. If he doesn’t resign you’re looking at a nice core of Rose/Deng/Amar’e but with hughes at the 2(?) noah at the 5 and nocioni as the only kind of talent coming off the bench, and I use the term talent pretty lightly. Even if BG comes back that just move hughes to the first guard off the bench. On the positive side of thinking, I think this trade would launch us back into the lottery where maybe lightening can strike twice.
I think depth is less important at this point than amassing talent.
If we’re already filled out with (overpaid) depth, we can’t give those roster spots to young ’uns or other cheap role players, and we are hamstrung financially in the trade and free-agent markets. The Noc and Kirk contracts are huge obstacles to making this a championship roster. If we can get out from under them, the future looks much brighter in a couple years.
I've never had so much fun with the trade machine before
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c2rdk2
Just have to hope the Suns can’t deal away Barbosa and Sarver panics. I’ll cross my fingers
T-Wolves
make out like bandits on your deal. 3 junk players for 4 good young role players. And only Hinrich gets paid the big bucks. Hopefully, they have to surrender some picks too (I know they have them, just don’t know from whom)?
I tried to see what this looked like and made a simpler trade, leaving out Thabo. Yours matches salary closely, which is crucial. Because mine has the Bulls adding $600K, Reinsdorf would have to pony up, although I believe it’s a pro-rated situation (making that really only about $240K). And PHX is adding $900K and might fix that by including Tucker ($1M) to MIN. I’m under the impression they’re not inclined to trade Amundson at all. He’s ultra cheap and basically the second guy off the bench 7th man. (You’re out here and know the team. Your thoughts?)
The larger issue with both our trades (and any for Amare that include Gooden) is next year’s L-Tax threat. And the possibility of BG resigning then becomes an improbability. So something needs to be done with Noc or Hughes even though Hinrich’s deal is off the ledger. Crazy! (Unless my math is wrong?)
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
*I'd tried to see what this (OP deal) looked like*
Thus, the Suns go $2.1 ($840K pro-rated?) the wrong way this year. So you just know there’s gotta be others included…. Be nice to keep Thabo if Noc and/or Hughes can be moved. Wonder if McHale has any interest in him either (Suns do).
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
This is positive.
Paxson and the band are working on more than one trade and Phoenix is still listening to trades. They just want another expiring contract that takes them down on the salary cap where they want to be.
Good and Gak
Good that Gar Forman apparently isn’t as wedded to Paxson’s boys as Paxson is.
If we’re finding a home for Kirk, I’d think we can do a lot better by talking to Portland. Sounds like Portland is going to land themselves a SF with LaFrentz, so they should be able to land Kirk with a combination of expiring contracts and surplus forwards (Outlaw/Blake/Rodriguez/Frye/Diogu). All of those guys would have more value if we are, indeed, trying to find something that’d appeal to the Suns in a three way. And more value to us on top of that.
agreed
Minny has nothing that suits anyone (is there such a thing as a bad expiring deal?). I’m all for relocating Kirk, and definitely Noc, but moving dog poop for horse shit isn’t the way.
Pritch seems to be itching to make a deal anyway.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Actually, after re-reading, it's speculated we'd be getting Minny's pick
Which would be a lottery pick, I assume. Even if it’s top 3 protected, that has some pretty good value.
If we're trading Kirk and Thabo for Jason Collins
we’ll open up more tax breathing room, even if the pick turns out to be higher than expected.
good point
however, I would like to see the “breathing room” money turned into more cash to retain Ben, not for a draft pick.
It’s being reported that the Pistons might run at Ben after this season, and that would absolutely stink if he bolted to a division rival.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Ideally it'll do both
We’d get like $5M in cap relief – $3M for the draft pick’s salary (rough numbers).
Assuming no other trades, we pick up a couple more million in cap space, which coupled with the value of Gooden’s expiring contract, should give us plenty to re-sign Ben and not go over the LT.
I’d really like to get Noc for Jerry Stackhouse done too just to be on the safe side though.
Or Noc to the Celtics, which is a personal favorite of mine.
Noc, Gray, Ruffin, Hunter ($10.2M)
for
Scalabrine, Giddens, Pruitt, O’Bryant, Davis ($6.4M)
This is probably going to help the Celtics this year, so it might be worth it to them. It obviously sheds a huge amount of salary for us.
Celtics & Noce (looking for the comment to turn green)
I like you Celtics idea for Noce, but I doubt they would want his salary on the books. Could the trade exception go over to the Celtics for a future 2nd rounder to help at all with a trade (seperate trade of course) or maybe this http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=au49bc
Scalabrine, House, & O’Bryant
for
Noce
House would be replaced by Starburry. Noce would replace there mascott. Get some added firepower off the bench. Doubt Celtics would get rid of big Baby. O’bryant just an addon and can be swapped out. If Celtics wanted Noce, this would be the type of team that he could thrive for.
Honestly...
ANY combination of players that is equal to Nocioni’s salary and comes off the books before his does is fine with me.
That being said, don’t count on it ever happening unless we throw in another player.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Matt's rough math
of +500K to our payroll puts us in the luxury tax.
If JR isn’t paying the tax moving the long term liabilities is more difficult.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
I think the Best the Bulls can do
Diogu/Blake/Outlaw for Hinrich/Sefolosha.
That would allow them to take up to $800,000 back in trading away Nocioni.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Blazers wishlist:
- I’d guess the Bulls should ask for Sergio Rodriguez, who’ll be a nice backup to Rose at only $1.5M next year.
- Frye is big and can shoot. The Blazers don’t want him. I’ll take him for cheap.
- Sergio/Frye and either Blake or Outlaw is a workable trade for Kirk straight up I think. We send out $10M and get back $8M or so, which gives us $2M of leeway somewhere else.
i like that deal if we can get Outlaw
but having Blake and Sergio seems like a waste. Outlaw would seem like a decent complement to the players we have now, a 3/4 with athleticism.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 18, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
If Portland
is going to gain a long contract by trading LaFrentz I can’t see them trading for another contract that extends past 2010 in Hinrich.
I know everyone wants to say that Portlands owner is a billionare and he will spend the money. Yeah to a certain extent but at the end of the day all of these owners are business men and the economy is not going to get better anytime soon.
If they can get let’s say Gerald Wallace for LaFrentz then when Roy, Albridge, and Oden need to resign they will resign them and spend their money there. They can save money by letting those expiring contracts (Outlaw/Blake/Rodriquez/Frye/Diogu) walk or take the risk and try to sign them for cheap. It looks like they will have the chance to do so because not a lot of teams are going to be offering contracts as in the past.
Wonder if Minnesota is interested in a Noc for Mike Miller swap
Miller expires in 2010. Noc’s contract declines each year along with Kirk’s.
Three way deal.
Bulls Get
Amare, Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal, Jason Collins
Wolves get
Hinrich, Nocioni
Suns get
Tyrus Thomas, Rew Gooen, Cedric Simmons
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
ESPN trade machine link of this deal
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
"Wonder if Minnesota is interested in a Noc"
um, they’re not, says the article.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
Wiggle room?
Wolves not interested in Noc, but perhaps that’s because of what we are asking for in return.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
It sounded to me like a straight not interested
On the other hand, we all know how wonderfully the media does on getting all this trade stuff right, so who knows…
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Tabloid journalism?
There’s plenty of reporting that is entirely bogus but will continue to get reported as accurate.
Bryan Colangelo says the Raptors have not had any discussions about dealing Chris Bosh. I doubt the rumors about Bosh in trade proposals stops though.
I really just want to move Noc badly and Mike Miller is a player I think is a great pair for Rose that can backup our SG and SF positions.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
just giving you guff
cause it read like you came up with some brilliant idea.
I realize this is all just text, but you have a way with tonality.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, MORE PICKS!
Let’s draft good guys from winning programs, and maybe we can pick up a defensive-oriented big man who can’t score and argues with the coach.
Oh, wait.
www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com
We've Been Picking High For Ten Years
and we still don’t have an All Star!
Poor pickers??
Don’t trade if you can’t get a good piece to go with Rose!!
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
Rose already qualifies as an all-star sir
larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
um, he wasn't in the All-Star game.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
yeah but he will be for the next 10 years
larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pax Era RIP
Unloading Kirk in a salary dump would be a fitting end to the Paxson regime. A year ago, Hinirch was the face of the franchise. He was announced last at all home games and was the marketing focal point. Trading him for trash to get rid of his contract speaks volumes about what Pax has and has not accomplished during his tenure. When Paxson talked about stockpiling assets, I never imagined it was so that they could be used to trade for garbage.
I understand that financial flexibility is a good thing, but I do not pay to watch cap room. I pay to watch people play basketball and I do not think that I am in the minority when I say that nobody wants to watch Brian Cardinal or Jason Collins suit up in Bulls unis. The Bulls should be focused on trading our “assets” for players who can help the team win.
It blows my mind that Hinrich could go from team darling to dead weight in one season. If the Bulls cannot turn their former most beloved player into something that immediately helps the team, that’s bad management. Again, cap room is nice, but we’ve seen this before. I don’t want the financial room to sign Brent Barry, Ron Mercer or other losers. I want players who can contribute now.
This team is in for a rude awakening when tickets for next season go on sale. I find it hard to believe that a marketing push of “Wait Until 2010!” is going to pack them in at the UC.
by Stay Chisel on Feb 18, 2009 10:58 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well I would guess they would use Rose heavily in any marketing campaign next year
He’ll sell plenty of tickets by himself.
While I agree with the sentiment...
I have to disagree with the facts.
The Pax regime extends far beyond Kirk. We’ll be feeling the effects of his mistakes until Larry Hughes and Andres Nocioni (or whatever bag of rocks we can get for him) are gone. In the case of Noc that could be 2012.
As far as Hinrich going from franchise leader to dead weight in one season, well, that’s how it should be when you draft a PG with your #1 pick. Of the MANY things Pax has done wrong I think we can all agree that Derrick Rose was the right pick for Chicago.
People will still come to Chicago Bulls basketball games, of for no other reason than to see Rose.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
There is no question that Rose relegates Hinrich to the bench. What I am saying is that it makes no sense that someone once so valued is now only good for expiring contracts. He has value around the league, so it seems to me that he could and should be moved for players who immediately help the team. Before Rose got here, Kirk was deemed untouchable by management. Now he’s in the category of Brian Cardinal?
Rose is on the team now and people are not that interested in going to games. When I cannot go to games, I cannot sell my season tickets for anything close to face value. Look on eBay and see tickets going for half price. I recently bought second row tickets from a broker for half of face. I wasn’t an econ major, but as the economy continues to deteriorate, I would have to believe that demand will continue to decrease. I’ve talked to some longtime corporate ticketholders and they have said they are not planning to renew season tickets for two reasons: one is the economy and the other is general disinterest in the team (of which Rose is the star).
by Stay Chisel on Feb 18, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Seriously?
I didn’t realize it had gotten that bad at the UC. I live in three different cities year round (none of which are Chicago). I used to live in Chicago, and even had season tickets through the immediate post Jordan years. Going to the games was always fun, even when they were the worst team in the league. That breaks my heart to think nobody wants to go and watch Rose even. As much as I don’t want JR to benefit from running the Bulls like a dysfunctional garage sale, I still want the players to feel like it’s a decent home court advantage. Hopefully that will change.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Agree
I would be disappointed in this trade. Kirk has to have more value than expiring contracts.
dunno
it’s sort of proof in the pudding. If they could get more than expiring contracts, they would(?)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Or the proof will be in the pudding.
As these rumors now change by the hour.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
We all know
somebody has to go, somebody from Pax’s beloved core has to be gone by trade deadline or start of next season, this team needs a shake up, fresh blood, the team as currently constructed has run its course
This is why even if a move is not made during this trade deadline.......
that MOVES will certainly be made in the off season. Reinsdorf cares ONLY about one thing and that is the bottom line. If the Chicago Bulls have less season ticket holders and he sees a loss of revenue then we won’t have to worry about Pax or Gar Forman, because Reinsdorf will feel pressure to do something himself.
Derrick Rose is important as I said in another thread because he is now the CASH COW that Reinsdorf has been looking for, by necessity he has to move EVERYTHING and restructure the teams around Rose and to highlight Rose. Derrick Rose is a product of the city of Chicago therefore he HAS to be the face of the franchise.
I expect in the coming years that he will refine himself similar to what Jordan did so that he could represent the Bulls and even the league. Rose personality fits what the league wants to promote….competitive, but humble. Clean cut, confident but not brash. Knows he is good but always looking to make his teammates look good.
If the cards are played right I predict on this forum that Derrick Rose in Chicago could even eclipse Jordan in Chicago, maybe not the league, but definitely Chicago because Rose has one important thing that Jordan does not.
He is one of us.
Wow...
I see what you are getting at here, and it’s taken every ounce of self control to not point out the major differences in Rose and I (money, skills, more money, crazy skills), but to think Rose will surpass Jordan seems a bit far fetched.
This is definitely a debate for another post though. Start the thread and I’ll meet you there.
"Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!"
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 18, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Dead Weight??
More like sacrificial lamb….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 18, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
yes sacrificial lamb... I have to agree... he will be a causalty of Paxson's mgmt and regime!
as much as I am a critic of Kirk, I believe he’s a good player. I’m more upset at Paxson’s hype and overextension of Kirk to the point that his contract weights heavy to justify him as an excellent 3rd guard @ 25 minutes a night.
Kirk has taken a major hit, at no fault of his own, because of Paxson, and along with Paxson but at least he got “paid” well for it…..
man up!
McGraw
I can almost guarantee they will not trade Hinrich for expiring contracts
http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1452
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 11:41 AM CST reply actions
*shudders*
He’ll be a $13.7 million expiring contract next year, which could be a valuable trading chip. And who knows? If Ben Gordon departs as a free agent and Hinrich gets hurt again, maybe Hughes opens next season as the starting two guard. Stranger things have happened.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
That's not strange, that's Greek tragedy
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Hollinger thinks the Bulls will succeed moving Kirk
John Hollinger: I’m hearing for the first time discussion of the Bulls moving Kirk Hinrich, though the destination is still unknown — “not Portland,” my spy says.
Such a deal makes great sense for the Bulls but it’s hard to know who would find his contract palatable in these times.
The Bulls also want to move Andres Nocioni. No surprise there — the news is that I hear they may actually succeed.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on Feb 18, 2009 12:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think anyone would find Hinrich's "palatable".
But certainly tolerable for a 28-year-old starting PG. Nocioni’s, I have no clue about that.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Can't put a price on grit
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
The bigger news is the may be able to move Noc.
I figured he was on the block like Hughes was on the block…meaning of course the Bulls will trade him for nickels on the dollar, just to get rid of that contract.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Maybe trading Hinrich for expiring contracts gives them
something more to trade to Toronto or Arizona for Bosh or Amare…
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
...
I was going to say something, but then I noticed your signature :-)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I'm telling all my friends about it!
WoW!!
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
Good call!
Never thought about it like that, but in light of current economic conditions, expiring contracts are going to be trade facilitators. If we can snag some expirings for Hinrich, we could likely later turn these into an impact player.
KC confirms the talks (for what it's worth)
Sources said the three-team talks with Minnesota were driven by the Bulls. It’s unclear if the talks directly with Minnesota, centered on the long-term contracts of Kirk Hinrich and Andres Nocioni, were driven by the Bulls or Timberwolves and if the Bulls would be amenable to trading Hinrich.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 1:31 PM CST reply actions
Fashionably late as always KC
and now with even more ambiguity!
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 18, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
As much as I dislike KC
during this whole crazy deadline he’s been pretty spot-on with everything he’s said. For me, the real villain so far has been Brian Hanley, the guy is just throwing around a bunch of bullshit seeing if anything sticks. He’s been wrong about pretty much everything.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 18, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he's been king of false hope.
Someone please take away his Credibility Card asap.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
What do you expect from the Scum-Times?
Just kidding (kinda)…I have to bash them I work for the other team.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 18, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
I'm surprised you still have a job.
You must be valuable. I write for Gapers Block. They don’t pay, so my “job” is safe.
www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com
Well there's still a need for those of us that make money for the company,
unlike writers, who just cost money!
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 18, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
What?
Red Eye?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
You know what RedEye is?
You must live downtown…but ya Trib. Co. which owns RedEye. All the checks are signed by Sam Zell anyway…
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 18, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Red Eye ruined the alt-weekly scene in Chicago.
Chicago Reader has gone downhill since then big time. Remember Red Streak? Was that it?
www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com
I'm just goofing on you
Go Sam Zell yourself. ;)
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
I could see them pulling off a deal
That puts them in better position to deal this summer.
If they can get expiring contracts with the addition of Hughes’ valuable chip (next year), they could offer some insanely great deals for teams looking to bank in on 2010
to summarize:
“i know as much as anyone else who reads espn.com.”
thanks for all the help KC!
He still knows those teams that mysteriously covet Andres Nocioni
Although, I never thought about parsing Nocioni the NBA player from Nocioni the NBA player with the John Paxson contract.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
true
he knows them, but won’t share with us
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
meh
I won’t dog KC. He likely confirmed with his own people. I assume he has SOME people.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
He once mentioned in a mail bag that he talks to his mom...
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
geez
I’ll go in on beating up the beat writers, but can we leave the Mom’s out of it?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, he's the one who put his mom into it...
by Sports2 on Feb 18, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
ba-zing
and….recced. :)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
It's unclear if the Bulls want to trade Hinrich?
If the Bulls can’t decide whether they want to trade a backup point guard making $10 million a year, then this organization is evem more screwed up than I already thought it was.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
I've been having that argument with guys on my board
I mean, to me, it’s pretty much clear as day. But the dream of winning a basketball game without any player on your team taking more than six shots in a game dies hard for many.
Is this Gooden and Noc for Salmons and Miller deal real?
Why in the hell would the Kings do that?
larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
long term savings
Gooden expires this year
Noce contract declies
They don't pay anymore over the long run, but save $7 million next year.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Let's please all wake up tomorow and see the following things:
Nocioni, GOoden and Kirk OUT
Some Big nasty player aka Amare, Bosh or same caliber in, even if we have to let TT and Noah go…
Then i’ll be highly excided to see the rest of the season!!
Here in australia, I wake up at 6am which is 2pm (the day before) in US (New York Time). Which means, i’m jumping on the computer to see what could potentially have happened during my sleep.
Every day, the answer is… nothing…. oh, lots of rumours but!!
How long we have to go? What time is the deadline on thursday? 12? 5pm? My calendar already says (Thursday, Feb 19th), which IS the deadline and makes me nervous to see that bulls didn’t trigger anything yet..
I believe i’ll dream of many deals tonight, and hope to wake up to a nice, solid one!!
Good luck to all of us fans around the world!
PS: In my perfect world, Thabo stays in CHI, despite his poor clutch play against MIA the other night. If we could somehow get Bosh without letting Thabo go (I say, YES WE CAN!), then I would start considering moving to chicago!
:-)
Not to rain on your parade here
but if Noc and Gooden are gone, and we get Amare/Bosh for TT and Noah, then your starting front court is Amare/Bosh and Aaron Gray. With either Michael Ruffin or Cedric Simmons as the first big off the bench.
The defense rests…
--Torch
Defense
…not only rests, it goes into a coma.
by El Toro de Goro on Feb 18, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I've been checking BaB throughout the day and the deal for Miller/Salmons sounds like it could occur
From the Sacramento Bee
The interest for John Salmons remains high, and a Chicago scenario reported by ESPN that would involve both Salmons and Brad Miller is a real possibility. The two sides could agree to the exact Miller-Salmons scenario laid out by Marc Stein (Andres Nocioni: three years, $22 million remaining with team option for $7.5 million in 2012-13; Drew Gooden’s expiring deal worth $7.1 million) or a variation of it (For the record, I have confirmed that particular offer but there are certainly moving parts too).
Miller/Salmons for Nocioni/Gooden from a salary cap perspective: It saves the Kings $13.5 million in cap room for next year, but they add $6.9 million in 2010-11 and $6.7 million in 2011-12.
Miller/Salmons for Nocioni/Gooden from an overall financial perspective: the Kings wind up spending $25,000 more than before.
The Kings have discussed the possibility of acquiring Kirk Hinrich as well, and he could be inserted into this deal instead of Nocioni.
Miller/Salmons for Hinrich/Gooden from a salary cap perspective: It saves the Kings $11.5 million in cap room for next year, but they add $9 million in 2010-11 and $8 million in 2011-12.
Miller/Salmons for Hinrich/Gooden from an overall financial perspective: the Kings wind up spending approximately $3.4 million more than before.
Salmons for Noc to me is advantage Bulls.
You skipped the updates
(11:19 a.m.)
* Rule out the Hinrich element in the Chicago talks. The framework is Gooden/Nocioni for Miller and Salmons, and it’s – once again – a real possibility.
(12:32 p.m.)
* I’ve been told more about the Chicago-Kings deal and had the pieces confirmed.
It’s Salmons and Miller for Nocioni, Gooden, Michael Ruffin (expiring worth $1.1 million) and Cedric Simmons ($1.7 million expiring). And there are indications that it’s close to happening.
[Times PDT, I’m assuming, so that last update is pretty recent]
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
i'm okay with that trade
except that I fear the Bulls see Salmons as an adequate replacement for Gordon. I think he is more of a good guy to have coming off your bench.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 18, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
That's likely the only concern on our part
we get something for Gooden ()
we shed Noc for minimal 2010 salary ()
but we crush our “cap room” this summer, likely preventing our penny-pinching owner from paying luxury tax for Gordon (-)
--Torch
They don't save much off the 2010-2011 salary.
It’s the next year they save the big money. This isn’t a 2010 move. It’s a move to get out of a longer contract for a slightly shorter one.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
And further a further update
(12:51 p.m.)
* It’s getting stranger by the minute. I’ll say that much.
There are a few conflicting signs out there, but a top source says the Kings are talking to New Jersey about a deal that would send Miller and Salmons to the Nets for hometown boy Ryan Anderson ($1.2 million this season, $1.3 next season with two team options thereafter), Stromile Swift ($6.2 million expiring), Trenton Hassell ($4.3 million this season with $4.3 million next as player option), and Eduardo Najera ($3.4 million this season, $3.1 million in 2009-10, $2.8 million in 2010-11 and $2.6 million in 2011-12).
Which if true sounds like the Noc thing isn’t so close to happening. :(
All I know right now is it’s a good thing the deadline is tomorrow – because I’m already not getting my crap done. Tomorrow’s going to be an absolute waste (unless stuff goes down tonight!)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
lol
the fans commenting don’t seem to be thrilled with it though. :D
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
i stand corrected:
saephansf wrote on 02/18/2009 01:16:06 PM:
I like the Chicago trade. Nociono will be a plus in the defensive end.
:D
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Apparently there's one of 'em everywhere?
Although I’m fascinated by the thought of Noc being a plus defensively…
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
other comments on there seem to indicate
they don’t think nocioni is a black hole/ballhog. hopefully their management shares this opinion…
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Easy to make that mistake when watching from afar and relying on others' opinions
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
lol, Kings fans
Nocioni does have a better DRTG than Salmons, but this is the Sacramento Kings.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Blah
I don’t see any benefit to swapping Noc and Salmons.
And I see nothing but cap headaches by swapping Miller for Gooden.
Maybe if this is a pre-cursor to another deal?
It depends on the org's vision for Gordon
If we were going to use Gooden’s “money” to resign Gordon, then this likely doesn’t make sense.
But if we plan on letting Gordon completely walk, then getting something for Gooden has value.
--Torch
Those Sacbee updates throwing in Simmons and Ruffin
leave us with two open roster positions.
Something must be in the works in other arenas.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Why?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
not saying that it's a deal-breaker
I just would like to see more of him on the court. Ahh, but who cares…as long as Noc goes I’m a happy man.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Has he shown you something that makes you think he should be on the court?
I’m genuinely curious.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
He dunks when he's angry
More Pt = more anger?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 18, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
this is an extremely good trade
since we needed a few more pieces other than noc and gooden to avoid the tax, and i’m glad sefolosha isn’t included, though that’s certainly not a dealbreaker.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Can this please
happen, I’ve been dreaming of new players that can play the game of basketball, I’ve daydreamed at work, will it happen, but I won’t hold my breath, hopefully this deal happens and a deal for Hinrich happens, lets cross our fingers
better than nothin.
At first I balked at the idea of Miller, but a 3 man rotation of Miller-TT-Noah at the PF/C is >> TT-Noc-Noah-Gray.
* There are indications that the Chicago deal is close to done, and it involves Portland.
Ike Diogu gets moved for Ruffin.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
nba.com
saying breaking news bulls landing salmons/miller.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
If Gooden gets dealt before tonight's game, will Vinny's firy Italian disposition allow him to coach
After all, he’s been excitedly awaiting the return of Gooden for awhile now and will surely be disappointed to not get a chance to coach him one last time
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
OH MY GOD ESPN 1000 REPORTING NOC AND GOODEN ARE GONE!!!!!!!
NOC IS GONE
NOC IS GONE
NOC IS GONE
NOC IS GONE
NOC IS GONE
Brad Miller is here.
David Aldridge reporting.
www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Larry Bird would like to team with Kobe for the win, LeBron for the fun
- Will Ferrell will run the player intros at Wednesday’s Bulls/Hornets game
- Seattle is still working hard to get an NBA team, but at what cost to Sacramento?
- On Paul Pierce’s incredible, sometimes unlikely, run as a Boston Celtic
- Mark Jackson doesn’t want to hear your excuses/is totally making excuses
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
