Back to the topic of the Bulls VP of Basketball Operations quitting and being a quitter
Remember that story? Paxson quitting after the deadline?
I had thought the story was so big that the Bulls would have to officially announce something either way, but they instead ignored it. Sort of blew over, I suppose due to Amare-geddon and other All-Star shenanigans.
And also because both McGraw at the Herald and K.C. at the Tribune were downplaying the initial report from Vescey. A report that Brian Hanley and/or the Sun-Times confirmed (and that's how it got to be a real story, not just because of that rogue element Vescey), but have since backed a bit off of.
But that, and some other stories the next day read somewhat the same: Paxson may not be quitting soon, but he's unhappy in the job and will possibly quit in the offseason.
And these audio clips from Hanley and WSCR beat reporter David Schuster really expounded on that point: that Paxson is miserable in the job, wanted to quit several times in the past, but between loyalty to the Organization and Reinsdorf talking him out of it, has stayed on the post.
Gee, way to do us a favor, Pax.
It's especially unsettling because this has been a long-time worry with Paxson's tenure: he's too loyal to who he drafted, he's too concerned about 'character' over performance, and he's just not cut out for the job. Reports emerged Friday of how the job has made him ill and stressed...really? This is a big-money, big-decision business, and our GM is distraught over having early extensions turned down from Deng and Gordon? Having to fire Skiles as a coach? These are the major issues that cause the Bulls VP of basketball operations unwilling to run an NBA basketball team?
The worst part is that this has possibly been effecting him going on a year and a half, someone not wanting to be there heading up the team. And that idea makes me angry.
But perhaps it should be viewed differently, as not new news but merely a confirmation of what has been suspected: Pax has not been doing the full GM work for a while. Reinsdorf is the one making approvals, Irwin Mandel is the mysterious cap lawyer (I'll assume he wears a cape), and Gar Foreman (director of player personnel) has been assuming a larger role the past couple seasons, most notably in the Luol Deng contract negotiations. He'll likely take over when Paxson is finally allowed to leave this job that stole his innocence and his hair.
So if Paxson wants to quit, hey Reinsdorf: don't bother talking him out of it. If he wants out, and you truly love him as a son in that weird way you feel about alot of your employees, then let him go. Let him regain his perspective of family and basketball (the non-icky contract parts!), and hire someone who if it makes them fat and weathered looking, it's seen as a badge of honor.
Honestly, where's our Donnie Walsh or Rod Thorn? Or even a Joe Dumars or Larry Bird? Someone everyone knows is in charge. Maybe the whole issue with this franchise looking like it has no plan isn't a knock on Paxson, but the Organization for not having a real leader in the first place. And the one they selected (seemingly, now) as a figurehead doesn't even want that job.
166 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Great topic.. I think this has been an under reported story and probably because of the local media's fondness for PAX
I like Pax too. But to me, it’s really getting frustrating to see how much rope and latitude he’s been given as the GM here. Poor Kenny Williams wins a World Series and Angelo gets the Bears to a SB and the we’re ready to fire them a t first sign of trouble. I heard Hanley yesterday and what irritated me the most was when he was digging into players like Gordon and saying that Pax can’t deal with spoiled athletes that won’t sign 50 mil contracts considering that his son is overseas fighting in the military. First of all, as much as I respect his decision, that was Pax’s son decision. Second of all, What does that have to do with players in the NBA negotiating contracts? That was Gordon’s decision and it should not be a bad reflection on him or have anything to do with Pax’s ability as a GM. He took the job as a GM in the NBA and should have known how players are considering that he played in the league. That’s no exuse for the job he’s done. The easiest thing to do in this town is to brand players selfish and not hold management responsible
I can't bring myself to be worked up about this
As long as Reinsdorf’s the chairman, it’s not likely to change. He’s either going to promote from within and that promotion will go to another loyal company man. If goes outside, it’s going to be a VDN situation, which will be even more destructive from the GM. That is, I figure he’d hire someone who doesn’t have much backbone and is willing to just be the face for the loyal company men actually making the decisions. I guess he could do both and hire Doug Collins.
In the end, though, it’s a matter of how much do you want to invest in this franchise. Is your emotional attachment worth maintaining at the cost of frustration with Reinsdorf’s team or is it time to shop for a new team? I’ll take the sue route and stick my head in the sand and just say “that’s the way it is, they’re the one’s who make the decisions.”
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
In fairness, the only thing I can clearly pin on him is utterly failing to hold Paxson accountable for anything
He’s spending to within a hare’s breath of the LT for a shitty team. All of the stuff about him playing favorites is, at the end of the day, unsubstantiated. It might be true but it’s just as likely Paxson.
What is pretty substantiated at this point is Pax has basically checked out. And rather than replacing him, Reinsdorf has let him continue to helm the ship while having everyone else do the heavy lifting. And it’s pretty evident that Pax isn’t even doing his job as the helmsman.
Bump him up to Executive Vice President of Golf Outings and get it the fuck over with. At least that way we might have someone exerting some leadership.
I wouldn't hold Paxson blameless, but I don't see the organization getting anything but more of the same
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I'm just saying it wouldn't be so bad if Paxson hadn't lost his nerve.
I mean, I’m not optimistic about a guy like Collins in the abstract, but I do think he’s been around the league forever and at least isn’t going to curl up in a little ball if one of his draft picks doesn’t give him a sweetheart deal for doing the favor of picking him in the lottery.
I dunno, Collins is pretty weepy.
If Ben Gordon tells him how much he thinks he deserved the Gold Medal in ’72 he may get $75m
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If Deng is "worth" $71M for 6 years,
BG is “worth” $75/6.
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 17, 2009 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
Reinsdorf is probably a little too "old fashioned"
but I want a GM more in the mold of a Darryl Morey. Someone who has a clear plan of how they want to put a team together and how they want it to function on the court.
And yes it has a lot to do with the Michael Lewis article, but from what I read about that guy and what he says on how “you can tell the teams that are using the new data,” we are definitely one of the teams he can probably tell are NOT using any new (or even old for that matter) data.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
Some of what I'm talking about...you think these things are being discussed by Pax/VDN??
There are other things Morey has noticed too, but declines to discuss as there is right now in pro basketball real value to new information, and the Rockets feel they have some. What he will say, however, is that the big challenge on any basketball court is to measure the right things. The five players on any basketball team are far more than the sum of their parts; the Rockets devote a lot of energy to untangling subtle interactions among the team’s elements. To get at this they need something that basketball hasn’t historically supplied: meaningful statistics. For most of its history basketball has measured not so much what is important as what is easy to measure — points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocked shots — and these measurements have warped perceptions of the game. ("Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot.") How many points a player scores, for example, is no true indication of how much he has helped his team. Another example: if you want to know a player’s value as a rebounder, you need to know not whether he got a rebound but the likelihood of the team getting the rebound when a missed shot enters that player’s zone.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Pax is a smart guy, I think he's familiar with that
whether the Bulls have a team of game-charters, I don’t know. From the NYT article, Morey said one way he checks whether teams use advanced stats is by looking at their foul-rate. The three teams with the lowest # of personal fouls are exactly the three you would guess: Houston, San Antonio, and Dallas. The Bulls have committed the 9th most fouls this year, so my guess is that Paxson is familiar with it but hasn’t completely bought in.
But I think you can get around the whole “not paying attention to advanced stats” thing by acquiring a superstar and building around him, like Danny Ainge and Jerry Krause did. The Celtics committed the 5th most fouls last year, but it didn’t matter because superstars win over a smartly arranged team of quality role players.
My problem with Paxson is 1) he doesn’t seem to value advanced stats, and 2) he doesn’t seem to value talent over hustle. We have a GM who is the worst of both worlds :\
I think Paxson is smarter than the average person...
…but I don’t think he’s that smart. Plus, learning new way to evaluate the game is something that would currently take going “above and beyond”—something usually done by those who are really ambitious or really enjoy their job.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
9th most fouls... I'm looking at you, Noc and Kirk.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 17, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
also, the Celtics didn't "not pay attention to advanced stats"
they have one of those guys and he’s very very good at what he does. Truehoop has mentioned him HERE
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 17, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
I thought the exact same thing.
Imagine how good Deng and Gordon could be (smart, determined players) if they were given and EXPECTED TO USE the data that the Rockets have.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
What's the objective?
Houston was bad, when Alexander bought them. They were probably losing money which is just awful when you’re in a top 5 growth city in the United States. I think Houston may be the fastest growing city of the major cities. They have job growth right now. That was then. this is now.
I think Houston is a great study. Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, and Luis Scola are not names I would have drafted to pair with Yao and McGrady. But it’s working. They hired a real coach with a real track record of success.
I do wonder how much money played a role in Houston. Right now the Bulls are terrible at the game of basketball, but terrific in the game of business.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
The objective was to build a winning team around the 2 big-money guys
(Yao/McGrady) without spending any real big amounts of money. So they needed to find ways to evaluate underpaid players so they could capitalize on those who were being overlooked/undervalued.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Yea, but what's ours?
So far as I can tell it is “make money, as much as possible”.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
..
I’m angry, if this guy doesn’t want the job then let him fucking quit. To me, it’s like he’s not taking it as serious as he saying he does. Why the hell would you quit right after the trade deadline… They’re going to let the deadline pass and basically waste a damn year. How could you look at this years team and not make atleast one or two trades. Theirs no point in us making the playoffs and we probably won’t and like past year we will end up with an below average ass trade pick.
Pax has mentally checked-out
Anytime someone is mentally checked-out, you might as well stick a fork in them, because it’s a lost cause. That person definitely doesn’t have the same passion or desire. I’ve worked with guys who knew they didn’t want to be on the job and/or who had already interviewed and gotten another job, and they are the worst. They don’t do any work, they don’t care if anything gets done, they’re just ready to leave and ready to move on to their next opportunity. Paxson is the same way. Dude is out the door mentally. How can you be the GM of a successful franchise in the mind frame? Point is, you CAN’T. At this point, I honestly in my heart can’t believe that he really cares if the Bulls make any successful moves or not (coaching or players). He’s not even taking part in the Amare talks, as Hanely reported that Gar Forman has taken over handling those talks.
It’s time to put him out of his misery and let him leave. I’ve been a Bulls fan for over 20 years and I don’t want my Chicago Bulls ran like this.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
My point exactly
Can we please get some good news this year, in the coming days… The only good news we got was that Paxson was leaving. I can’t understand why the hell you would play like that at a crucial part in the season.
JR JR JR
Reinsdorf is killing this team. As long he is owner, we won’t have another champion. He got lucky with Jordan. He doesn’t care about basketball or even fielding a winning team. His real love is the Sox and the Bulls are just a cash cow(pun intended).
I can’t blame Pax like many do because I know he was hamstrung by Reinsdorf on many decisions. Still if he has checked out mentally and is stressed then he is no longer effective.
JR needs to get a GM who thinks outside the box. BUT we all know that he will never bring in a good basketball mind, because that would cost too much money. He’ll get some schmuck who’s been kissing his ass the last 10 yrs at the United Center
JR, please sell the fucking team to someone who cares!
by C Smoove on Feb 17, 2009 9:27 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your points, except I witness the dealings of Jerry Krause when he was GM
If Reinsdorf equally gave both similiar “limited” freedom, then Paxson doesn’t really have much of an excuse!
Jerry had lots of freedmon to bring in personnel, and he was a dreamer. He loved Power Fowards and loaded the team with them, if Tracy McGrady wanted to play in Chicago, then Krause who desired him would have got him?
Krause made some bad decisions, but no one really questioned his “MOJO”. the dude carried himself like he had the biggest baddest balls in the organization.
Pax had lots of freedom, I believe he himself hamstring the salary cap signing non starters to big contracts, signed Wallace and started losing with his overpaid questionable starters as core players. In essense, Reinsdorf steps in, because this team is on decline.
So maybe Reinsdorf is really behind structuring the team, and Paxson has always been the “YES” front man… If so, then still that’s a problem if he (Paxson) never stands up to his boss and tell him a signing is not in our best interest!
Paxson is really at fault, and moreso than idiot Jerry Reinsdorf… He’s an owner, not the true basketball mind behind the organization?
Bulls don’t have one, and this three headed decision monster presently at the helm can’t make a real decision because its a democracy rule, which takes lots of time to come to a consensus. Certainly more time that the trade deadline.
(Democratic Ruling Bulls: D’Antoni deal, Trades for Garnett, Bryant, Gasol and now Amare)
man up!
damnit
I wanted to include something profound in my post, asking even where’s our Jerry Krause? At least we knew he was into the job and had a plan (albeit a crazy one).
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
interesting both Paxson and Krause witness their biggest colapse when hiring cheap in-experienced coaches
to go along with their questionable signings.
man up!
Pax did want D'Antoni though
Krause really thought Tim Floyd was god’s gift to coaching.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Lets put to bed Kobe, Garnett, Gasol
Kobe had a no-trade clause, and why would he go to a team once the deal is done would be left w/ Hinrich and Noc as its best players, The Bulls didn’t have enough to get Garnett, and Gasol is not worth gutting a team, if all these trades would’ve went through, Kirk and Noc would have been your #2 and #3, thats not getting you anywhere, just like this current team
repercussions this june
We know Pax is done at the end of the year if not sooner, so what do the Bulls do in June? Do they promote Gar Foreman to GM or do they go an get a GM? If they go and get a new GM then Vinny would have to be gone because what other GM in the league would allow him to return as coach. Next issue of business for the new GM would be to sell of the remaining pieces of Pax’s beloved core. Whoever doesn’t get shipped in the next two days could be shipped before or after the draft. (Kirk, Noc, Deng). I’d really like to hear Gar Foreman speak soon to see if he is on the same wavelength as Pax on these issues or if he would blow the team up. Did he sign Deng to that contract under Pax’s supervision or did he decide to do it on his own?
I'm with you. I'd love to figure out who decided it was a great idea to sign Deng to that contract.
Who ever did may have set this organization back 5 years.
and we're already set back 4-5 years
due to the Nocioni signing. We are paying 20 mil combined for a Deng/Nocioni combo at SF.
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
deng's contract is REALLY not that bad
it’s not max money, it’s actually a perfectly appropriate contract IF he plays up to his capabilities. he’s struggled so far but that’s partially because the offense freezes him out. despite his duds the past couple games he’s been better though.
but it was certainly appropriate for market value, and again, he’s not a max player but he isn’t being paid anywhere near a max contract. do people not understand this?
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
heh, I don't think they do
I’m with you. The Deng contract is nowhere near the problem that the Nocioni contract was. And for all we know that was all Paxson.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
I understand that the contract isn't that bad...
But in the context in which they sign Deng was terrible. Both Gordon and Deng had “off” years the year prior. Gordon wanted more than he probably was worth and the Bulls wouldn’t sign him to what he wanted but then they turn around and reward the other guy with a ridiculously high and undeserved contract. Along with the Hinrich and Nocioni deals, you wind up with what you have now. A bunch of role players with big contracts that are difficult to move. Technically the Deng contract isn’t terrible but seriously… it was a terrible decision by the Bulls organization.
Role play
You’re Ben Gordon. You’ve been healthy for almost every game of your NBA career. You’ve been ready to play the SG position since you joined the Bulls. You have scored for this team consistently. The team made the postseason in your first season with the them. They made the post season 2 more seasons after that.
Meanwhile, management has extended two small forwards that are guaranteed 111 million dollars between them. One of them is older and doesn’t even start. The other is younger, inconsistent, and just gets worse if he misses action during the season due to injury.
I don’t think Ben’s been advised very well by his representatives. Perhaps he should have hired Deng or Nocioni’s agent.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
or Arn Tellem
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Deng since his injury has been on his job
What the hell, change your name, Nba observer. He’s inconsisent because the damn coach didn’t play him in the fourth quarter the few games before the All Star break. I won’t even start with the Ben Gordon situation…he is scoring well though. Noc is overpaid, but Vdn is the problem. With a more organized team Noc would easily give us 15 off the bench.
I believe I have that noted
in my signature.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Chi... Deng has been on his job??
You do realize Deng scored 6 points the other night against Miami right? Not because he didn’t play the 4th but because he’s not that good. Luol Deng is starting to get some of the worst exuses for bad play that I’ve ever seen in this town: “He didn’t get playing time”, “They need to run an offense to fit his strength”, “He was hurt”. Are you serious. TT is doing everything Deng should be doing and yet and still we can find faults in TT’s game and Gordon’s. The Bulls paid the wrong guys. Period.
by Dils on Feb 17, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We paid Deng because we had to
The CBA makes you do things you probably wouldn’t do, but you need Deng under contract because you lose so much more in drafting him, leasing him, and letting him walk for nothing.
Deng can be in the long term picture, but I really need to see some kind of game where he creates his own shot. I’ll take two of these a night and be satisfied. If he gets one I’ll say nothing. It’s the zero nights where I want to consider the future without Luol Deng.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I guess i'm just getting frustrated watching a guy who got his money, go out and
score 6 points in a big game and watch him get the benefit of the doubt about being a long term solution while Gordon throws in 34 points in that game, leads the team in scoring this season, statistically have his best season this year and didn’t get his money. We probably won’t resign him but may be stuck with Deng, Hinrich, and Noc all because the Bulls paid them.
a bigger problem
“Hey Captain. Go lead on the court with your 6 points on 6 shots.” – Coach Del Negro
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
"DON'T SHOW FRUSTRATION ON YOUR FACE!"
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
I was going to
make a snarky remark about how Jordan had off games, but he only had one game in his entire career in Chicago where he failed to score double digits! March 22, 1986 against the Cavs.
Wow!
--Torch
sure
in regards how they screwed themselves with Gordon, then the Deng signing looks worse.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
it wasn't great, no
but the bulls weren’t able to pay both, given their “no luxury tax” stance (which frankly i agree with). they were also short money due to the ben wallace trade – if wallace and joe smith were still on the team, there actually would have been a little more money freed up and ben’s offer could have started at a higher value. i assume they saw deng as the more obtainable deal and the one worth pursuing, given that ben gordon had 15mil$ contract demands. not only that but deng is younger and whatever else. i would have done the same thing they did. they just didn’t handle it very well.
and if you consider that luol’s previous offer started out higher than ben’s, and what they gave him was barely more annually than that previous offer, it wasn’t like they way upped the price for no production.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
You're right, but they're short on money for all sorts of reasons
All of those reasons are the result of stupid decisions they made:
- The Wallace trade cost them a couple million in cap this year.
- The Nocioni signing cost them a couple million in cap this year.
- The failure to trade Kirk and consideration that spending $10M on a backup PG this year has cost them cap space.
- Frontloading all those deals for players you shouldn’t expect to have in a couple years cost them cap space.
At the end of the day, they’ve got $30M tied up in three bench players this season. Well, two bench players and one guy they won’t even let sit on the bench any more.
well, yes
but i was going along with the “simplest” explanation (the trade) since going into the 07-08 season, we knew what contracts we were SUPPOSED to have leading into this season which includes the kirk and noc contracts already, despite the fact that most acknowledge their contracts suck. so i assume when talks broke down for extensions in summer of 07, they had planned for still having certain amounts of money in the next offseason and they ended up not having quite that amount of money.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Not to disagree too much, but I tend to think of Nocioni...
…as costing them ~$6.85 in 2011 and 2012. While he’d still be overpaid, a 3-year contract ending next year would be much more palatable. Not that you cared about my take on it. I do agree with everything else.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by those years
he won’t even be able to walk.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Then the Bulls could at least get medical retirement salary cap relief.
More like Nocioni to try hard and play 5 minutes a game with no legs left. :(
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 17, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
I realize the bad feelings toward Reinsdorf,
especially about the recent coach-hiring fiasco and the coddling of Paxson, but quit asking for him to sell the team because he probably never will.
He is in the business of making money, not losing it. That is why he is in the financial position he is in right now, because he is a calculating, savvy businessman. Granted, with the economy in the shitter nowadays a lot of people in real estate/finance are taking it on the chin but they’ll be ok, and Jerry will definitely hang onto the assets that are still turning a profit – like the Bulls are.
So just stop, because it’s fruitless to think it’ll ever happen.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
I didn't ask him to sell the team
Just get a real GM.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Wasn't really referring to you
just others here and in other fanposts/shots that clamor for JR to sell the team and say we’ll never win another championship with him as owner.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Nothing wrong woth being a business man
Just run the team intelligently, Portland and SA have done tremendous jobs and exist in small markets.
If they can do what they can on that limited operating budget then we should be able to accomplish similar results
you can complain about bad luck all you want but teams like San Antonio are able to find and develop players even though they are an elite team.
JR hurts us because he will not make the needed changes to move the team forward
If he wants to make a profit fine but then spend the money wisely
The Wallace signing had less to do with getting an interior defender and more to do with a big name star to drive ticket sales and JR liking th agent
I wouldnt want JR to run my company
JR is in the position he is right now...
bc he was fortunate enough to have MJ drop in his lap back in 1984.
History lesson
Reinsdorf and Krause came into the picture AFTER MJ, if I’m not mistaken.
by California Al on Feb 18, 2009 2:25 AM CST up reply actions
If he got a real GM who built a contender
He’d make more money. The Bulls have only won a playoff series in 10 years, that definitely hurts the pocketbook.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Obviously he’s not going to sell the team. I was just venting as a true fan. If the team is making money and it is, he’ll not going to sell. I was just hoping out loud. But in all honesty, we will never win again with him as owner. How old is he, maybe he will have a stroke or get dementia like Steinbrenner.
Now that's not a very nice thing to say about anyone,
especially someone you don’t know. I understand the frustration but c’mon, you’re wishing a stroke on the guy?
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
If he
is in the business of making money and not losing, he should’ve stepped in when Pax offered Noc that 5yr deal, role players should only get 3yrs max
A lot of the crap surrounding the Nocioni deal
had to do with Memphis really going after him. If you’re pointing to one specific deal as the downfall of JR not wanting to make money, I wouldn’t start with Noc’s.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
Noc was a RFA, whatever Memphis offered, Bulls would have had opportunity to match and Noc would stay
Instead, the Bulls upped the offer
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I can't find an article right now
but I don’t think Memphis ever made an official offer. They just pretended to really want Noc. They played chicken with Pax (without even making an offer) and Paxson blinked first.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
right, they didn't
but the bulls upped the rumored offer. it was stupid.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Nocioni packs them in?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
good post
….they need to stop hiring ex-players (however beloved) and get in someone who both understands the game and can also run it like a business (which it is, let’s not pretend otherwise).
by bullsfaninbigapple on Feb 17, 2009 9:40 AM CST reply actions
Dumars is an rare example of an ex-player who knows what he's doing
He was running his own business before the Pistons hired him as GM. The Pistons actually had to convince him to take the GM job. Pax, on the other hand, was working as an announcer because he couldn’t handle the long hours of being an assistant coach. It’s great that he cares about his family and all that shit, but maybe he should have thought about that before he agreed to become the GM of an NBA team.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Dumars has made his share of mistakes too
see: Darko Milicic.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Every GM makes mistakes
But Dumars is smart enough to admit his mistakes and move on. Yeah, he drafted Darko, but he then traded him to Orlando for a first round pick and ended up getting Rodney Stuckey.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Feb 17, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But he's a lot better than Pax, I'll definitely give you that.
Especially in the draft:
Mehmet Okur in the second round with the 38th overall pick in the 2001 NBA Draft.
Tayshaun Prince in the first round with the 23rd overall pick in the 2002 NBA Draft.
Darko Miličić in the first round with the 2nd overall pick in the 2003 NBA Draft.
Jason Maxiell in the first round with the 26th pick in the 2005 NBA Draft.
Rodney Stuckey in the first round with the 15th overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft.
Arron Afflalo in the first round with the 27th overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Probably helps
when you’re starting with players that compete for the All-NBA squads.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
Billups wasn't competing for any all-NBA squad when they signed him
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
don't ruin NBAO's observation!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
No
But their five was pretty damn awesome when they were drafting in 03, 04, 05, 06, and 07.
Drafting for your bench is a lot different than drafting your starting five. I think it’s a big reason why Dumars will make some risky moves. He doesn’t want to put himself near the bottom with the task of getting better. He’s always trying to stay in the middle of the pack if that’s as far as he needs to fall.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't he acquire their entire starting 5?
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Teyshaun was drafted by Detroit
Rip = aquired
Sheed- aquired
Chauncy- aguired
Ben – aquired
now I’m note sure what year Joe became GM and if he made all those signings or drafted Prince.
He's been their GM since 2000
So, every single player on a team that made the conference finals 5 seasons in a row, 2 Finals, and 1 championship was either traded for or drafted by Dumars. He’s made some bad decisions, but that is success any Bulls fan would take right now.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Until the coach hiring process this offseason....
I thought that all the blame is on Paxson, but with Reinsdorf clogging up the works and trying to be a GM as well, it seems like we can blame Reinsdorf and NOT Paxson. I know this seems strange, but nothing was stranger than the D’antoni situation this summer, and I have a feeling that is how all of the trade discussions were handled as well. I think the one thing we can put on Paxson is the Ben Wallace deal, and once it didn’t work out Jerry decided to step in and ‘help’ Pax.
We are forever screwed until D-Rose puts on his Jordan costume and takes over the team with his play and personality on and off the court.
this wasn't meant to be an indictment on his performance as GM
it’s that he apparently doesn’t want the job.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
But the booing at the Red Kerr ceremony hurt his feelings!
Seriously, that’s got to be the silliest argument ever (and what’s sad is that it’s probably true). Did he not play in the NBA for a decade? If booing hurts your feelings that much, what are you doing in professional sports?
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
if I knew it'd effect him that much
I would’ve joined in on the booing.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Actually
I heard Reinsdorf really wanted Ben Wallace
So did a lot of people on this site
Good thing we’re not all GMs…
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
New plan
Paxson retires. Together with his brother Jim and Reinsdorf they donate to the Notre Dame endowment to create a new management school at ND.
The Paxson School for Managers who cant manage good and wanna learn to do other stuff good too
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 10:07 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
love it
especially because I’m a ND-basher.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Zoolander references are win.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Danny Ainge was an idiot
until they got really good players! Look how smart the organization looked with Jordan/Pippen.
They need really good players!
always a great contribution.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think Ainge gets much credit for where that team is now
The Ray Allen trade was questionable decision when it was made. Getting KG is still widely considered a gift from McHale.
This organization looked stupid for alienating its 2 best players and coach in favor of Crumbs.
Really good players win championships but rarely cover up for inept organizations.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Ainge is getting blasted right now because of how shitty their bench is
Kevin Garnett singlehandedly saved a lot of jobs in Boston last year. And Ainge still drafted Rondo, Powe, Big Baby, and signed PJ Brown and Posey.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
And to add to that
Look how smart they looked when they traded for Pip, drafted Horace, traded for Cartwright, drafted Kukoc, drafted BJ Armstrong, traded for Rodman, hired Phil Jackson……………
The franchise looked smart because they were damn good at their job. You don’t remain the most dominant and most popular team for a decade just by luck.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
The luck was drafting Jordan!
Regarding Ainge, isn’t the current flag in Boston?
There were a couple busts in there, for instance...
…drafting Mark Randall, Jeff Sanders, Stacey King, Derrick Lewis, Dragan Tarlac, Byron Houston, etc…
Make no mistake about it. What allows you to be the most dominant and most popular team for a decade? It’s called Michael Jeffery Jordan and a healthy dose of Scottie Maurice Pippen!!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Feb 17, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Why is it so hard to admit they took a really talented player
And eventually surrounded him with enough talent and a smart coaching staff to win a bunch of titles?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Much the same way the Bulls this year lucked into Derrick Rose...
…the Bulls lucked into Michael Jordan. Had Bowie been there, the Bulls preferred him to Jordan.
Now the building around him wasn’t especially difficult. MOST (not all, but most) all-time great players in the history of the league were fairly easy to build around proving that competent GM’s throughout league history had that ability.
So if Krause failed to do so, then that would truly be a shame. Now in his defense, guys like Jeff Sanders, Derrick Lewis and Mark Randall weren’t early picks and were by no means “can’t miss” prospects. But again, I won’t give Krause too much credit…because if he thought he was such a great GM for assembling teams around Jordan then why was he (and JR by the way) in such a hurry to build a team without Jordan? Anyway, we see how well that went. And why wasn’t Krause offered any other GM jobs when he left town if you think he was so highly regarded?
by lexdiamonds0730 on Feb 17, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Danny Ainge
Got a nice assist from Kevin McHale
Organizations win championships,
not players and coaches.
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 17, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
Wow! I'm so damn frustrated with this team
JR is definately part of the problem. He talked Paxson out of quitting so he would have to hire a new GM and coach.
Yep, just heard it on SC...
“The Suns really didn’t get anything close to the package they were looking for. They talked to several teams and didn’t really come close to that package. Everyone in the organization is hoping that the coaching change will be enough. Everyone is saying they’re going to stand pat with Amare.”
We've showed our frustation Vdn and Paxson
We need to really get it through JR fucking head how we feel about this team and what he needs to do seriously. Boycott this team.
you first.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I think JR will get it through his head when season ticket renewals are due
Judging by the amount of no-shows at games lately, there may be quite a few cancellations.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
I know alot of ppl not renewing their season tix after this season.
Most of them were going to do so last yr but the Bulls were saved by the lottery ball. All of them changed their mind at the prospect of drafting Rose and called the Bulls the next morning after the draft lottery- even though it was one day past the deadline they all were able to renew. Obviously the economy is bad enough for the Bulls to blame it on that, but I really think there’s going to be a huge drop-off. I’m sure JR will just use this as an excuse to NOT spend any more money though…
People...
Search “Bulls” under Google news. I just did it, who knows how true it is, but it includes Bosh. Three team trade Suns Bulls, Raptors.
we're on it
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/2/16/761179/roman-modrowski-bosh-to-bu
Now leave us all alone.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Seriously, shut the fuck up.
All of this becoming-machine that you believe is inherent to the activity of sports is absolutely disgusting. The guy obviously cares about the BULLS and about the people he works with. If he now feels awful because of the pressures, the only response should be sympathy. The subjection you continually refer to within your posts is absolutely disgusting.
Um...what?
Using proper nouns instead of “the guy” and “he” would really help readers understand your comments.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 17, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Sounds like you're suggesting.. we all should attend the Bulls games with hankerchiefs and weep it out!
Don’t think so buddy! The Dude quit already, just make it official, and let him and the fans move forward!
man up!
Paxson doesn't read this blog, so stop defending him like we're schoolyard bullies
If he is miserable at a job he doesn’t enjoy anymore, why the fuck does he work? There’s some stupid misplaced sense of loyalty here. Paxson owes it to the team to step down if he cannot perform to his fullest abilities, and if his health is suffering because of the job, then he owes it to himself to step down.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
This place is a rhetorical vacuum.
To say that Paxon owes it to the team to step down is one thing; but saying, “the worst part is that this has possibly been effecting him going on a year and a half, someone not wanting to be there heading up the team. And that idea makes me angry” suggests personal investment. If we are then entering the realm of personal investment, who would have the most personal investment? Well maybe Paxon, whose entire life is the Bulls. If our response to someone falling apart to the point of quiting is to say, “you should have reached that point earlier!” then we have reached a black hole from which we will never return—if you do not see the paradox in this rhetoric, you cannot read.
I realize that it is the essence of blog conversation to say nothing, mean nothing, and blow enormous amounts of hot air, but the mechanization of minds in terms of sports has reached a level of absurdity where to partake means one must commit a portion of their brain to blathering zombie-dom and, well, that seems pointless. I will be rooting with you all in spirit.
by McCabe on Feb 17, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not on equal footing with the GM
And I wasn’t saying he should’ve reached this point of misery earlier, it’s that when he reached the point he should quit. The talk is that he’s been ‘lost’ since before last season.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
(though I'll still accept your resignation from zombie-dom)
Make sure you get correct postage on those sympathy cards.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
No one ever said Paxson should have been a complete mess earlier
If he was miserable at any time in the past 2 years, he should have quit. If you’re going to use big boy words, at least have a point.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Before we cast the next stone at the beleagured GM, shouldn't we wait until after the trading deadline
to see what, if any, trades were made that may make our harsh judgments either softer or more justified? Paxson may be a burnout but he is not stupid (assuming the DelNegro hiring was due primarily to JR’s meddling rather than his own decision making process).
Bulls fans should be wary of what they wish for. Just when you think that things can’t get any worse, they often do. (Murphy’s Law). If on Friday, the roster no longer has Goo_en, Hughes, Nocioni, Thabo, Simmons, Kirk, or some variation of this mix (addition by subtraction), many of his critics just might want to be singing a different tune….such as “Happy Days are Here Again.”
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 17, 2009 11:16 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
well apparently Gar Foreman is already taking the reigns in the Suns talks
so quitting is just a formality to let the casual fans know.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
So Pax continues to get paid a GM's salary, while not actually performing the functions of the job
Where do I sign up for a job like that?
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
he's likely paid more than a GM (or more than a Bulls GM would be paid)
since he’s a VP
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
1600 Pennsylvania Ave
:)
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
I think the main requirement is to study up on the 60s and 70s New York Knicks
And find a way to whisper sweet nothings about them into Jerry Reinsdorf’s ear. Do that and you’re golden.
ESPN.com
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
Under these circumstances and we have been jerked around as Bulls fans too much ...its better ...
to ask forgiveness afterwards than to wait and be jerked around again and allow the frustration to continue to mount!
man up!
Boston actually didn’t draft Rondo, Phoenix traded Rondo to them. Phoenix have traded so many good players out of cheapness. Deng, Rodriguez, Fernandez, Rondo. Sarver is even cheaper than JR…go figure.
We should've bought all of the Suns' picks before.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
And people wonder why the Suns never won a championship
Maybe if they didn’t sell off their fucking draft picks every year, they would have had enough depth to get past San Antonio. But I guess it’s easier to blame Mike D’Antoni and his system.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
The Suns did promote D'Antoni to GM in March 2006
So they could still blame D’Antoni for selling their picks.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
d'antoni also uses an incredibly tight rotation
if they had drafted any of these people, would they actually have played?
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Rajon Rondo and Luol Deng?
Umm, yeah.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
because there'd be sooo many minutes
behind marion and steve nash?
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
It's a rosy view
But Rondo would have been a terrific backup. If all he had to do was cross the time line and pass the ball he had those skills as a rookie.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
He used a tight rotation because he had no depth
They haven’t had a decent backup point guard, so of course Nash played a lot of minutes.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
They sold the Deng pick
So they wouldn’t hit the tax when signing Steve Nash. And there was no incentive in a contending team drafting a European player who might hem and haw about coming to America.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
it was likely to reduce their cap figure
so they could offer more to Nash. draft picks have a cap hold.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Drafting foreign players seems to have worked pretty well for the Spurs
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Yes
at positions 25 through 30.
If the Spurs have a lottery pick, #7 at that, it would change their position.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 17, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, that's the difference between the Spurs and the Suns
The Spurs drafted overseas players at 25-30 who might be able to help them one day, while the Suns sold those picks in order to make some money. Even putting aside the 2004 draft, the Suns could have gotten some solid rotation players with all the draft picks they sold. As close as they came to winning a title, that might have put them over the top.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
If you have to avoid the luxury tax, then selling draft picks is the easiest thing to do
I don’t know what the Spurs salary situation was from 1999-2001 when Parker and Manu were drafted, but I’m assuming it was a lot better than what the Suns have been going through since 2005 with Sarver at the helm.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 17, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
Well, they avoided the luxury tax
And they also avoided winning any championships. An extra home playoff game or two would have made up for any luxury tax payments from late-first round draft picks.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
The other thing there
is that draft picks are a great and easy way of filling out your low-payroll guys at the end of the bench.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Fire!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
Should we care? Inventing stuff to fume about...
I like Pax so I certainly don’t want him miserable, but there’s no evidence that his love/hate of the job has any impact on his performance. He could’ve loved what he does and still made the choices he’s made. Geez, there’s enough for people to fault him on, let’s not invent more stuff.
I’m also unsure how we know that Paxson doesn’t value advanced stats.
So the Sun Times tries to salvage their story to changing it from “Pax is about to leave,” to “Pax ain’t happy” (which most fans knew last year). As for Vecsey, he’s doing some “I told you so” chest-thumping in a current column for being right about Terry Porter being fired. I notice he didn’t say anything about being right about Paxson.
He might still be right about Pax
He said Pax would quit after the trading deadline. The trading deadline hasn’t passed yet.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
did you listen to the audio clips?
this is presented like it should be common knowledge.
It’s not like Paxson’s performance is beyond criticism, so questioning why it’s good to have him there if he doesn’t want to be there is valid.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
by all means critique his performance
…but it seems to add little to the criticism unleashed already, except giving people more to bitch about. I’m not sure there’s much difference between
“He sucks, because he [has no plan/can’t make bold moves…]”
vs.
“He sucks, because he [see above], and ya know, I don’t think he’s very happy here either!”
I just think sometimes people get whipped up into a frenzy when there’s little new valuable info. Trading deadlines are the worst—I sometimes wish we didn’t know any rumors until things were done.
you don't think it's significant?
what other franchise has this kind of organizational structure and attitude? I think it’s glaring in just how absurd it is.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
honestly, listen to the Hanley thing
it makes Paxson sound like a freakin rube.
You could say Hanley’s way off (it’s possible) but then there’s confirmations to the similar appearing all over.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you think the "organization" gets painted a certain way unfairly sometimes?
Take the coaching search last year. They were doing some interviews, and like most organizations, they interview several but put few cards onto the table until they give someone an offer (and even then, they keep things close to their chest as negotations ensue).
Then a paper leaks that it’s Dantoni. Fans get excited, sportswriters spin possible scenarios, all while the dotted lines haven’t been signed yet. When the organization says options are still open (again, what most companies do until someone signs a contract) people complain how ridiculously secretive they are, and how uncooperative they are with the media.
Dantoni signs elsewhere—great applicants take other positions all the time, and yet immediately it became a crisis, one seen as an obvious example of Jerry’s inability to do right (and somehow Pax gets blamed too, or pegged as incompetent, impotent, etc.). The Doug Collins flirtation began, and although that was certainly a weird one, the media speculation about whether Doug would take it, should take, could handle it, made it an even bigger issue than it was….
…and when Doug passed on it, the story became, “Another installment in the protracted saga of the Bulls coaching search…how dysfunctional an organization must this be for it to embarrassingly drag out so long!!!” Except there was no urgency to find a coach that day. Or that week even. But somehow the media fanned the flames; the fans became impatient, and the whole process got labeled as “a fiasco.”
A similar thing happened in various incidents with Noah and other players last year—each seen as reflecting something systemically wrong with the organization, when most were things that happen on a majority of teams from time to time.
And remember the anticipated outrage during preseason about whether Rose would start? His talent was so obvious that anything short of him starting on opening night would’ve somehow reflected something inept about Vinnie or Pax?
Not saying there isn’t a reason for fans to get upset, and maybe the point of a fan blog is to get more fervent about stuff when it happens (or before it happens, or even if it never does happen). I guess it was easier for me to embrace the fervor when it was mostly positive. Since last year the fervor has been mostly negative (save for posts about Rose).
so you think that was a normal coaching search
and merely the media that was exacerbating the situation, and then ‘us’ doing even worse. It was not normal merely in reference to coaching hires around the league (a massive sample size for such occurrences)
Was it a bit sensationalized by the media? It’s an NBA team. In Chicago. It’ll happen. Sadly I fear the Bulls can’t take the fervor like you can’t take it on a sports blog (relatively).
It was easier for me to be positive too, before the team went into a year-plus tailspin.
And you’re right: some of it is driven by results. If the Bulls didn’t botch their hiring of a coach (as in: Vinny), nobody would care that the process was so ridiculous in the first place.
So when the results suck, it’s then time to pick apart what we can. Reports, or quotes from Paxson himself (as in the Rose starting stuff) are completely fair. I would trust and ‘let go’ when getting (perhaps not completely substantiated) morsels of their motivations and tactics more if the results were still good.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
This apparently is the Jerry Reinsdorf mode of damage control
It’s all Peter Vecsey’s fault! Nothing to see here, situation normal. All is well!
(meanwhile, Pax is packing up his office and leaving out the back door, and Gar Forman is learning to impersonate his voice to keep media outlets and other GMs off balance in phone calls, I guess).
there’s no evidence that his love/hate of the job has any impact on his performance.
Nonsense on stilts.
really? on stilts even?
you may be right—please provide the evidence. Though I’m not sure how you prove that he concretely made poorer decisions as his unhappiness grew. Plausible to assume, but hard to find evidence for.
we can't find evidence that he's actually doing anything
so this line of questioning won’t get far.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Who was it that said 90% of trade talk among GMs never amounts to anything?
Pax has made a moderate-to-significant trade just about every year he’s been doing it (or at least lately). But ever since that stupid Kobe-trade rumour last year, everyone assumes that if he’s not making a bold move, he’s sitting huddled in a corner not answering his phone and hoarding the basketball cards of the core players he won’t ever trade.
I'm referring more
to Gar Foreman doing his job.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions

by 













