Bulls Interested in Marcus Camby?
by MrPants on Feb 15, 2009 3:15 PM CST
160 comments
While most trade speculation revolves around the Bulls potential aquisition of Amare Stoudemire from the Pheonix Suns, there is some recent speculation of the Bulls aquiring Marcus Camby from the Los Angeles Clippers.
Over at the Sporting News, Sean Deveney is reporting:
One possibility for Camby that's been overlooked: the Bulls. A deal for Drew Gooden's expiring deal and a young player like Thabo Sefolosha would have to spark the Clippers' interest. "They're not sold on making a hard push for Stoudemire," one East general manager said of the Bulls. "I think they're really divided on that. But they are definitely looking for a big man, which they've been doing for, what, five years now? They have some great opportunities.
This trade is viable financially for both teams. The ESPN trade machine prdicts that adding Camby would add 7 wins to the current Bulls team.
Personaly, I think that this is a much more sensible trade for the Bulls than going after Amare. Camby's contract is up in two years and would leave the Bulls the financial flexibility to go after the much heralded 2010 free agent class.
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Yeah, you're right this is a much more sensible trade,
if by sensible you mean shitty. Did Reinsdorf make this post? I don’t see how this does anything for us going forward. Why would we want an aging defensive oriented big man? Who the hell cares about adding a guy like Camby? The organization should be focusing on making trades that will make us better in the future. “They’re not sold on making a hard push for Stoudemire”… let the spin begin!
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 3:33 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
This trade should have been made
Last week.
by GoldMidwest27 on Feb 15, 2009 3:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like Camby, but I think I'd just rather
continue playing Noah big minutes at this point. He’s been playing well and keeps getting better now that he’s in shape.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 15, 2009 3:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, what is the point?
I’d obviously love to get Amar’e, but if you can’t make a trade of that caliber, there really is no point in making a small move when the team seems to finally be gelling. UNLESS, it’s to trade Noc or Hughes.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am also just stunned that a majority of peolple that answered on that poll
would rather trade for Camby than Stoudamire. It’s absolute basketball retardation and I’d love to hear why someone would feel that way…
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted for the Camby trade, simply because I don't see
the Bulls holding onto Stoudemire beyond the remainder of his current deal, plain and simple. I don’t see Reinsdorf shelling out a max deal, which is what Amare wants. You see what Reinsdorf has done to the White Sox’ payroll? The Bulls, even with Stoudemire, have no shot at a championship the next two seasons, plain and simple. From a teaching and effort standpoint, I think the Bulls’ young bigs can learn more from Camby, who can teach them a little something about defense.
All that said, if getting Amare means getting him and signing an extension, I’m all for it.
by dakoose on Feb 15, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Camby is not even a great defender, he's an incredible shot blocker... there is a difference.
Also, even if you’re afraid they couldn’t hold onto him that’s a risk you’ll have to take. When Stoudemire’s deal is up, so is Tyrus’, so who woud you rather try and re sign? Can you imagine the overblown deal Tyrus is gonna want if he keeps up his current play just a little bit? You can’t go around not making deals cause you’re scared of what might happen. If you can get this guy it must be done.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I't's not that I'm scared that he won't be resigned,
it’s that I’m fairly certain he won’t be. Listen, will I be upset if we get him? Absolutely not, but I don’t think it’s as big of an acquisition as everyone is making it out to be, mainly because I think his stay in Chi-Town will be a short one. He wants a max deal. Do you think he’ll be worth a max deal then, especially with the other superstars set to be free agents that offseason?
by dakoose on Feb 15, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll be up for a deal the same time Tyrus is
and can you imagine the type of overblown contract Tyrus is gonna command if he plays at this level for another year and a half? That will be the real dilemma. It will be Luol Deng part 2. When push comes to shove, yes, you pay Stoudemire whatever he wants, cause he is proven. Unlike several of the people we have paid in the past. The only way paying Stoudemire big money will ever REALLY hurt you is if he gets hurt, otherwise there will always be demand around the league for a guy of his abilities.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Tyrus plays like this
until it’s time for a new contract I think that would qualify as proven. I would count almost 2 years of consistent play a pretty good indicator especially when he’s still young
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 15, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're just talking out your bum.
Camby is a good defender. Fact.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He won the defensive player of the year award playing on one of the worst
defensive teams in the league (Nuggets). So just because a guy blocks a ton of shots doesn’t make him an all world defender. That’s all i’m trying to say.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he's merely good
he’s not great. A lot of this is observation and conjecture (of the second hand variety even), but this is defense after all…
Camby’s been slammed for worrying too much about getting shotblocks and not playing within the team scheme. He doesn’t show on pick/rolls. I’m thinking it’s like Pudge Rodriguez calling for more fastballs so he can throw out more runners :)
Anyway, the Denver interior defense looks just better with Nene instead.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nene is awesome so that's not surprising.
And I did say good. And when you don’t watch a player every day and you’re not a professional scout (as I’m not), I have to trust the numbers. Camby had the 9th-best adj. +/- on defense of ALL players last year and his DRtg throughout his career has been great. And even in a different system, he’s still the best defender on his team.
So, maybe he does do all those things, but his team is still better with him on the court than off. And Tyrus Thomas gets slammed for never running back on offense. Nocioni gets praised for his “buying into the team defensive concept.”
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I do see that argued against jbj saying he wasn't a great defender.
he’s not perfect, that’s for sure, but i don’t see any evidence that says he’s not a great defender.
if he’s not, than Tyrus Thomas definitely isn’t either. And probably overrated as well.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's an overrated defender. He leaves his man a lot to gamble for blocks, and he
hurts his team in the process.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 15, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay. That's exactly one area of defense.
I guess I should have explicitly stated that I don’t think he is a perfect defender. If you have any proof that his team is worse off with him on the court than off, I’d love to see it.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have proof, I just have the observations of people whom I respect
like Kelly Dwyer and the Denver Nuggets blog community, that all screamed that Camby was horribly overrated as a defender.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 15, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That stats say he's fairly rated
+4.34 adjusted +/- defensively last year, career 98 defensive rating, averaging 5.0 defensive winshares per year for the past five years.
What interests me more is Kenyon Martin’s adjusted +/- defensively last year was +6.05, second in the NBA. How much of Camby’s defensive startdom is dependent on having a big, wide PF defensive star alongside him, I don’t know.
Either way, I don’t think Camby is much better than Noah overall. I’d rather give Noah the extra 10mpg for the rest of the season than get Camby and win one game of a first round series instead of zero while Noah rides pine.
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think a big reason for his high defensive ratings
is his ridiculous defensive rebound percentage. He’s finished 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, and he’s currently 1st in the NBA that last five seasons.
He’s at 34.1% this season. The best defensive rebounder on the Bulls is Drew Gooden at 23.1%, so it’s a huge difference.
His strength as a defensive rebounder not only explains his impressive defensive ratings, but it also explains why Denver fans thought he was overrated defensively in spite of those ratings. Perhaps he goes for the block too often and isn’t a great one-on-one stopper (which is what they’d notice), but he makes up for it with his rebounding (which they wouldn’t notice, or wouldn’t consider defense).
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree that it's not defense, because a lot of those boards
would be gobbled up by teammates if he didn’t get them. 70% of all misses go to the defense. 30% go to the offense. The odds are that even if he doesn’t snatch those defensive rebounds, someone on his team would. That’s why defensive rebounds are slightly overrated. They help in that they prevent second chance scoring opportunities, but it’s not entirely clear that someone being a great defensive rebounder helps his team all that much on defense. In fact, he could just be padding his stats in the same way that he pads his blocking stats by gambling for the ball.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 15, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't you a Basketball on Paper guy?
I thought you loved Defensive Rating… Your boy Dean Oliver is big on the “defensive rebounds are defense” thing.
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know he is and I am one of those guys
but it’s not a dogma. I have thoughts of my own on the matter. I think FTA are severely underrated by most metrics because if you get a team in the penalty it helps not just you, but your whole team and it’s a very efficient way to score points. I just don’t know how great the marginal value of a defensive rebound is, and I think that boxscore stats in general are a poor indicator of defensive prowess. That Shane Battier article is instructive there. APM says that in spite of it all Camby is still a very very good defender. I just don’t think he’s in the league of Garnett or others who have won the DPOTY award, and hence think he’s overrated.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 15, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on that
Has there ever been a bone-thin inside player that’s been a defensive superstar?
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Odds are that if Stoudemire
didn’t score those points, someone else would. Sounds ridiculous huh? The whole point of getting somebody who’s really good at something is you increase the percentages in your favor. When you have a player that’s the best offensive or defensive rebounder in the league, you will get extra posessions or give up less extra possesions.
The Bulls, by the way, are the 4th from worst defensive rebounding team in the league. How many close games have the Bulls lost where even one defensive rebound would have changed the game?
Source:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/?cat=team&pan=2115
by runningman on Feb 15, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats mostly because VDN
keeps playing noc at center
by CJOliveira on Feb 16, 2009 6:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does any team really want Kirk Hinrich @ his salary
Outside of Team Paxson? Is there really a market today for Kirk?
I think we’ve conclude there is not a market for Noc @ his contract years and salary!
man up!
by exult463 on Feb 15, 2009 4:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure there is a market for Kirk, but we would probably only be able to get an expiring or something like that for him.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
which would be GREAT! we could then resign BG and not have to play Hinrich at the 2 guard
next year.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 15, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I think the fact that his salary declines each year makes him a little more palatable to most teams
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
After some considerations,,, I don't believe there is a market for Kirk, we are for now stuck with
10 million dollar reserve (with a slightly declining salary.. which starts too high and declines not enough to justify a reserve who lead the disappointing Bulls to only 33 wins last season)
Portland would be wise to only rent “Andre Miller” from Philly instead of expense long bad contract Kirk. Portland has young guys that will develop as PG, they just need immediate financially feasible competence at this position, and Kirk doesn’t fit the critieria.
We are basically in the same situation with Noc and Kirk. STUCK IN CHICAGO!
Hughes will be more attractive to teams before these two spark interest.
All of the Kirk fanclub should be glad, we just have to struggle and close our eyes watching Kirk clunkers hitting the back of the rim in clutch situations and his overachieving defense of (PG,SG) that surfaces only selectively, and other times errupts in him being burned for 40+ points.
Paxson contract signing post rookie contract, grade is a minus -FFFFFFFF, and that includes Hughes by way of Wallace, and I’ll exclude Deng since Gar and Reinsdorf seem to claim responsibility.
Just to think this guy is still the GM for now, and no good trade news (at least dump salaries) with a couple more days before deadline
man up!
by exult463 on Feb 16, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we accept the Bum Wallace signing as JR's move instead of Pax,
Pax did a good job in the trade with Cleveland. Wallace was leading a locker room revolt where the players quit on Skiles/B*yl*n, so he had to go.
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 16, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait why are people voting for Camby???
Just curious
by Camry on Feb 15, 2009 4:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind seeing Camby on the Bulls
I haven’t voted, but it’s be nice to have him. It also doesn’t give Del Negro the option of messing up the team by giving Gooden and Sefolosha anymore minutes. If the minutes at C can be spread Camby/Noah/Gray to 55/40/5, I’d be happy
by NittanyCub on Feb 15, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thinking of Camby + Noah + TT as our interior D is sick.
Thinking of Amare + Noc at PF on the defensive end makes me a little ill. And I think there are ppl who would rather wait till next year to trade our pieces for someone like Bosh. Bosh > Amar’e, for sure.
That said, I personally would still make the trade above for Amar’e… his offensive tools make up for his defensive shortcomings. Trading TT for Amar’e, which is how I see that trade, is a no-brainer. As much as I’ve been a huge fan of TT’s potential, realistically I do not think he’s got the mental make-up to be a superstar. Amar’e already is one. The end.
by smash! on Feb 15, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not a sick interior
anybody who weighs 230+ lbs would eat us.
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They could eat us, fine...
but while they’re feasting on Camby, TT will block their shit into tomorrow.
by smash! on Feb 15, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good lord
our plan is to recreate the failed 04-06 teams. I get it now. We aspire to have 49 wins! Yea! Second round of the playoffs – here we come; maybe.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 16, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not my plan.
I said I’d make that trade for Amare in a heartbeat. But I was just trying to answer the guy’s question which was why would some Bulls fans possibly vote for getting Camby vs Amare.
by smash! on Feb 16, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm holding out hope that it's fans of other teams coming here and voting that way
It just CANNOT be Bulls fans
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We fix our biggest problem
which is interior defense plus we don’t give up an arm and a leg
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 15, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What "arm and a leg"? Oh, you mean a bunch of our scrubs?
You don’t want to give them up for a superstar? Now I see where you’re coming from. Where would this franchise be without Thabo Sefalosha and Drew Gooden? THIS IS FUCKING INSANITY!!!
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, it's not that I don't like Camby, it's just that this deal is not even in the same universe as the Amar'e one.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You need to step away from the computer until this trade or the Stoudemire is announced.
Or even until the end of the trade deadline. You’re going to give yourself a heart attack.
Plus, you just keep saying the same thing over and over. Okay, okay. You think trading for Stoudemire is the greatest thing in the world and anyone who disagrees is a fockin’ retard idiot fool who has no sense whatsoever. There is no room for dissenting opinion. We get it.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, I probably am coming across like an idiot
To be honest I’m not even that crazy excited about getting Amare, it’s just that, the people that don’t want to trade for him for the crap that has been announced are just pissing me off so much I can’t take it. I really just don’t get it. I’m all for dissenting opinion btw, but I’m just surprised there is so much on this particular topic.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I know what it's like to get pissed off and start calling people stupid.
So maybe I’m living in a glass house, but yeah, maybe for your own sanity (and yes, I know how that works, too).
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They may be our scrubs but...
We lose TT and Noah and a 1st rounder then BG because we can’t afford him this offseason. We can’t add any free agents due to the LT. Our lineup until Amare leaves is
Rose/Hinrich
Hinrich/Hughes
Deng/Noc
Noc
Amare/Gray
We won’t compete with that lineup and if we don’t compete there is zero chance Amare stays therefore we are starting all over again in 2010.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 15, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They said the exact same thing about the Celtics when they traded for Ray Allen and KG
“What are we gonna do without Delonte?” or “Let’s just keep Jefferson”. The thing is, when you combine two players with the talent of Stoudamire and Rose, you’d be surprised at how easily the rest of the pieces fall into place.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How can you compare Amare to Ray and KG
first of all Amare plays offense only where as KG can score as well as Amare when he wants to and he is one of the best defensive players in the NBA. The Celtics have a much better team than we would if we acquired Amare. To even make that comparison is ridiculous.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 15, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, right?
Boston has three hall of famers, an excellent passing point guard and a bunch of nose-to-the grindstone guys who know what they need to do.
by dakoose on Feb 15, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think Stoudemire is on pace to be a hall of famer?
Certainly not right now, but if he keeps this up, bank on it, Rose certainly has that kind of potential. It’s such a ridiculous argument anyway. So you’re saying I can’t compare any team to the Celtics because they have three hall of famers. I guess the Lakers shouldn’t even bother playing them this year cause they only have one hof’er. Give me a break. Also Pierce was not on that level until this recent run
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
If he keeps “what” up, is the question. Is he the same Stoudemire who played with an awesome Nash in a great D’Antoni system or is he the Stoudmire playing with Shaq in a Porter system? Or is he somewhere in between? Somewhere in between is not close to Hall of Fame, one of the greatest PF’s ever.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is crazy, just because I say KG and Amar'e and the same sentence people think I'm comparing the two.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then why make the comparison?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was comparing the teams
And I was just trying to give a recent example of a successful team that was put together via trade. And just like the Amar’e trade many people seemed to have doubts about how well it would work. I never compared any of the players to eachother.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I see what hes talking about
Hes more comparing the situation than the players as individuals and I actually think most people see that but are trying to give you a hard time.
by Camry on Feb 15, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's because they are nothing like being equal.
The Bulls don’t currently have one of the best players in the league. The Bulls aren’t acquiring one of the best PF’s of all time. The Bulls aren’t acquiring a 2nd player that’s one of the better scorers in the game.
The Bulls are bad team. This bad team would be acquiring a really good player. Why not compare the situation to any other team that did that?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Allen ~ Ben Gordon,
Amare ~ Pierce … Rose … ~ Garnett … ? … ehhhh …
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Feb 15, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I guess that's the hope.
And I mean, it’s better than nothing. I don’t htink Rose will be as good as Garnett nor that Gordon is as good as Allen.
OTOH, the Bulls will have more time to get better players. As long as Stoudemire stays.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, the Celtics were really good team when they got Garnett
What’s your point?
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? That's all you got out of it, huh?
I don’t mind people disagreeing, but don’t be dumb in the meantime.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This whole fanchise is still totally reliant
on how good Rose becomes in the future. So, when you make comparisons to players and rank them in comparison to the rest of the league there really is no point, because Derrick Rose is young enough and good enough to where he can still be the next TJ Ford or he can be the next Chris Paul. That’s the important thing.
And while we are waiting to find out what he’s gonna be, we need to surround him with players like Amare Stoudemire and hope for the best. And I still don’t understand why you have to resort to the name calling.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No it is not.
You say that now because everyone has seen the results of combining those three players together. If you remember, at the time, many people were criticizing the move saying that the team would not be good enough defensively to win consistently. Saying that Allen and Pierce particularly were disinterested on defense. Based on talent alone I think that you can easily make a case that we would be on the Celtics level. When it comes to defense it all comes down to team commitment.
Also, can you show me this dominant defensive inside prescence that you think is coming to the Bulls any time soon? Everyone keeps making that argument, that Amare sucks on D. but where is the all around superstar talent we can get? You go out an get Amare, he becomes your post scorer then you find a solid defensive compliment to him. And that is a much easier task.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is because Allen, Pierce an KG are all All-Stars
and they were when they played on crappy teams. You might not have noticed but we don’t have one All-Star and our defense is terrible. Pierce is a better defensive player then our wings and we have no interior defense let alone a player that is even close to KG.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 15, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Amare is 1 move in the right direction
When Boston traded 7th pick for Ray, I was shocked. It wasn’t a move that got them over the top, but it was a step in the right direction like Amare. Amare is younger than Ray and a rare talent; you make the trade. Sure Boston could have had Brandon Roy, but with Roy does Boston win the Championship? Rose, Deng, & Amare is 3/5 ths of a starting championship calibur team.
by Jesse07 on Feb 16, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm....
Sure Boston could have had Brandon Roy, but with Roy does Boston win the Championship?
Yes. And it extends the window quite a bit.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
by kidronmusic on Feb 16, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They only got KG because Ray Allen became a Celtic
They would have just had PP and Roy.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 16, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure
that BOS pick was #5 in the 2007 draft. And that Roy was in the 2006 draft with LMA and TT.
I’m just going by my own, admittedly shaky short term memory though.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 16, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think you're right
wasn’t that the pick that turned out to be jeff green?
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Feb 16, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston traded that pick to Portland
for Sebastian Telfair and Theo Ratlif (1 year left on contract) for Raef (lots of years left on contract). The Ratliff contract was definitely necessary to getting KG.
by Sports2 on Feb 16, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston traded that #5 pick to the Sonics (R.I.P.)
For Ray Ray.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 16, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston traded their number 7 pick in the 2006 draft (Randy Foye)
To the Blazers for Bassy and Theo. The Blazers then traded Foye to the Wolvers for Roy. I guess the Celtics didn’t have a chance at Roy.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 16, 2009 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why I wrote that
That’s basically what you said. When I said they traded the #5 pick I was referring the the #5 pick Marionette was referring too. OK I MESSED UP REPLYING TO THE WRONG PERSON. SHOOT ME.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 16, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, Garnett was and is one of the best PF's of all time.
My off-the-cuff guess is minimum Top 10, maybe Top 5.
Getting Stoudemire is not the same as getting Garnett AND Allen. Plus, the Bulls have no one currently the caliber of Pierce. PLUS, Thomas + Noah + Gordon > Jefferson + Delonte West of a 1 1/2 years ago.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, BUT, that doesn't mean you can't even compare the two teams.
In my opinion I’d rather have Rose/Stoudemire over Pierce/Allen. The problem is, they have that third wheel in KG that we definitely could not match.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure you can compare them.
But then you find the Bulls utterly lacking.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's as big of a gap as you're making it out to be
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And neither of us would know until the team was completely assembled
And that is my point.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we know two things.
The Bulls don’t have anyone of Pierce’s caliber right now. Amare Stoudemire is not near as good as Kevin Garnett. The Bulls are likely to lose a player similar to Allen in Gordon than they are to acquire ANOTHER player like that.
Here’s another one: Philly was a bit better last year than the Bulls are this year. They acquired Brand who is another good PF. Philly has been crap this year.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls don't have anyone that's Pierce's caliber?
Well, I am of the opinion that Derrick Rose can surpass Pierce and he also plays a more valuable position. And Stoudemire is superior to Ray Allen. That’s two of the three positions where I believe they would be superior. I just can’t believe the discussion has evolved into this. I think you’re just trying to give me shit at this point. Once again, I don’t think we would be better than the Celtics if we do this trade. And I never said that.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, so Rose could be better than Pierce...
…and Stoudemire will be better than Allen. I guess they’ll just need to find that third person nearly as good as Garnett and they’ll be fine.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TT is NOT a scrub.
Any combination of Hinrich, Nocioni, Gooden, Hughes, Simmons, Sefolosha, Ruffin, Hunter, Gray and even Deng for Stoudemire I would be happy with (but Phoenix would have to be desperate to do that).
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 15, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry about the poll
Polls are dumb
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that the league insurance can exclude a certain number
of players (e.g. Deng this year).
You think that Stoudemire with his increased risk of knee problems from cartilage deterioration would not be excluded if he receives a max contract extension? He could kill the Bulls cap room for years will sitting on the bench unable to play.
Without an extension, Stoudemire is little more than a 1-1/3 year rental, and not worth trading good players, prospects or draft picks for, since the Bulls will not contend for a championship in 2009-10.
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 15, 2009 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You'd need to trade away another million dollars somehow to make this work.
Luxury Tax!!! Or throw in Ced Simmons and make everyone happy.
This trade would mean that Ben Gordon wouldn’t be re-signed, but I think I’d be okay with that. Maybe. If they could somehow, miraculously, find a SG who could provide 15-20 minutes/game for next year, along with a rookie SG, they could really take a huge jump in wins if Deng returned to form and Rose, Thomas and Noah all took big jumps in production. It’d be….. interesting.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 4:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather find a taker for Deng and hold on to Gordon.
I think a lot of us here in Chicago take BG for granted. He’s not great defensively, get over it. He’s immensly talented and among the more prolific scorers in the league. Lets look at what he does and stop over-stressing some of the things he can’t do.
by dakoose on Feb 15, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just FYI, my reasons for "be[ing] okay" with Gordon leaving...
…are way more complex than the typical “he sucks at Defense and wants too much money” arguments.
I don’t disagree with your Deng statements as long as “find a taker” means actually getting a good return. I still need to see more (the rest of this year) before I make a decision on him.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point,
and I may be alone in this, I wouldn’t object greatly to getting rid of Deng’s contract in a salary dump trade, as that money could be used to get an actual player. SO although they may not get much talent in return, the picture is a bit bigger than the actual immediate return.
by dakoose on Feb 15, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm for it
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 15, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Deng's decent but disappears way too much, I'm for it too ... dunno who we'd play in that spot though
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Feb 15, 2009 8:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haven't we been waiting for this for the last 10 years
what is the different between the team you posited and the team that won 49 games and had their butts kicked in the 2nd round of the playoffs. I never knew so many bulls fan strove for mediocrity.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 16, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If there's a chance to get Amare this is pointless
Camby is an overrated man-on-man defender, and Noah has taken great strides as a rebounder. This doesn’t solve any of the pressing offensive issues the Bulls have.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 15, 2009 4:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if this is out there as a trade in addition to the Amar'e trade...
Throw out the writer’s supposed trade pieces of Gooden + Thabo, since if the Bulls swing Stoudemire, Gooden is almost certainly in that deal. What if the Bulls are looking at Camby in a 2nd deal if they need to give up Noah + TT to get Amar’e? Camby replaces Noah.
Camby + Amar’e at the 4 & 5…?
by smash! on Feb 15, 2009 4:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Im pretty sure the reason theirs so many Camby votes
is that if Amare wasnt an option, almost every one would be for dumping Gooden and Thabo for Camby. The only reason not to do that would be considerations toward signing BG.
by reprisal on Feb 15, 2009 5:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd still rather have Brad Miller
if the other 2 frontcourt players are Tyrus and Noah.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially if it was Hinrich for Miller.
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 15, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this Tyrus+Noah playing 30mpg thing
For the first time ever we’re giving our young guys a consistent chance. Why bring in a veteran to eat up their minutes? Unless you think Camby is going to get us past the Celtics/Cavs first round…
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, it's not even a lateral move, it's more of a negative one
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish we could trade some people
for a defensive sub type of big man, who can play 10-15 defensive minutes a night. A Kurt THomas or something. We used to have P.J. Brown.
Seeing Nocioni at center, or Gray at center for prolonged stretches, isn’t something I really want to sit through again.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Feb 15, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've talke a lot of crap on here about how the Amar'e trade is a slam dunk and recieved crap for it.
All I’ve been trying to point out is, that you win big with great players. Now, Amar’e is great, by my definition, which could be different than yours. Tyrus Thomas is not a great player, yet. And, even if you combine all of those pieces that we would be trading together, they still do not equal having ONE great player, in the NBA. So, if you have this opportunity, you must do it. By no means am I saying that we will win a championship, particularly with the team that we would have immediately after the deal would occur. But I think it would be much easier to build a contender around Rose/Stoudemire than Rose and whatever else we currently have.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 5:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you JBJ, I think that people are losing the sight of the forest for the trees. Tyger has been
long in agreement with Matt, from what I understand, that the solution to the Bulls problems isn’t to lose our good, but flawed players (Ben Gordon, Deng, etc.) it’s to get more of the good players. Amare is a great player. Could he be a better defender and rebounder? Sure. Does that have anything to do with the fact that he’s a historically great scorer at the 4-5 spot like very few the league has ever seen? No. The Bulls stink on offense more than anything. Their defense needs work, but I think a new coach would solve a lot of those problems (hello, Tom Thibodeau!)
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 15, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, I think hiring a defensive minded coach would be a great next move after making an aquisition like Amare,
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Count me in on Team JBJ as well
We haven’t had an all-star since Michael Jordan. The Bulls have been bottom-10 in offensive rating every year since Jordan left. I agree with most of BaB that Amare’s not a superstar, and he’s not the perfect player to get for various reasons, but I think most people are underrating how amazing a scorer he is.
In the history of the NBA, only four players have averaged 25ppg with a 65+ TS% – Barkley, McHale, Dantley, and Stoudemire last season. Just last year! At 25! He’s just 26 now! And he did this after fully rehabbing from surgery! If I told you six months ago that we could get him for Tyrus Thomas, you’d call me batshit crazy.
The odd general consensus on this site is that the Bulls biggest weakness is interior defense. It’s not – it’s interior offense. And here we have a chance to get the second most efficient PF scorer of all-time (next to Barkley). Ya gots to do it.
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Picture this team next year with no Gordon and no Thomas.
How good is that offense? The worst in the league? One of the worst?
Now add Stoudemire. How much impact does he make to that team?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a lot
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And how much is "a lot" from last place?
They’re still an average offensive team.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really not a statistical person, so I couldn't tell you how much
but I would think that if you simply replaced BG with Amare and then put Kirk in BG’s spot (just for an example, i’m not endorsing this) we would improve a good deal offensively. I don’t know top 10 maybe, maybe a little better. But a Stoudemire trade does not occur without many other changes occuring so it’s kind of pointless to speculate.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the idea of Camby over Amare...
I think what the Bulls miss most right now is a defensive presence in the post to go with Tyrus and some depth on the bench. I think Camby would be perfect, practically and financially
by Dils on Feb 15, 2009 6:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How can that be what they miss most?
When they haven’t been an efficient offensive team in over a decade?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 15, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think thr Bulls are scoring a lot more this year than in years past..
When I see the Bulls losing, it’s on the defensive in once they take Noah and TT off the court. That’s when teams make their runs against the Bulls
by Dils on Feb 15, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about how many points you score, it's about how efficient you are in getting those points
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They're 23rd in offensive ratingy, 17th in D Rating
They’re bad on defense, but even worse on offense. Teams can also make runs against Chicago when they can’t score for stretches of a game.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 15, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the first time that I've seen the argument about beating an offense with more offense.
I always thought that if the other team doesn’t score that you can’t lose.
by Dils on Feb 15, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If "you" don't score, you can't win.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2009 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not even worth starting another argument
If you simply look up you can see about 60 points/counterpoints to the statement you’ve just made.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 15, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Please don't be true
If people were griping over Amare’s injury, you have no idea what you’re in store for with Camby!
by Option27 on Feb 15, 2009 6:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I noticed a lot of that. But I'm arriving late to the party
But I know what my eyes are seeing and even if the Bulls get Amare, they darn well better make another trade and get some depth in the post because THAT"S what their problem is.
by Dils on Feb 15, 2009 6:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
theres too many negatives to the amar'e trade...
not a single negative that i can think of this camby trade…. obviously amar’e is a more premiere player…..well..more a offensive premiere player…and camby is a premiere defensive player….some might argue that all he gives us is more defensive rebounds and a ton of blocks…hmmm…sounds pretty good to me…. and for what we’d be giving up in each trade?? seems a lot safer to go after both……has anyone thought of that…its quite possible we’re going after both of these guys….going from TT and noah to amare and camby is a HUGE improvement.. both defensively and offensively……wow we would be sick if both trades happen…
by masputo on Feb 15, 2009 6:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
add another option to your poll.... trade for both players...
by masputo on Feb 15, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What would that trade look like?
drew gooden’s expiring contract is central for both trades
by MrPants on Feb 15, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but "safer"
doesn’t get us any closer to a championship. Trading for Camby increases our playoff chances by a few percent while taking minutes away from Joakim and Tyrus.
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we cant know that for sure...
we have no idea how either one of those players would fit with our system or with our players… its all speculation right now…. and im pretty sure hughes has an expiring contract too…
by masputo on Feb 15, 2009 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We can't know anything for sure
It’s a risk. But trying to win a championship without all-stars is a bigger risk.
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It would take away minutes from Tyrus and Joakim
because Vinny is dumb. But it wouldnt have to in theory. Splitting the 96 minutes @ 4/5 between primarily T2, Noah and Camby say, 36, 32, 28 respectively. Would make us a lot better. Can squeeze a few more minutes to Noah from Camby as he continues to improve his fitness and foul problems.
by reprisal on Feb 15, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But getting Amare
is clearly a superior move.
by reprisal on Feb 15, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, I love that a legitimate reason for not making a trade is
“our coach is dumb”. But it’s true :)
:(
by YaoPau on Feb 15, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you have to click the save trade option
and then copy and past that link
by MrPants on Feb 15, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
here we go.....
by masputo on Feb 15, 2009 7:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
we're really only losing 2 rotation players in these deals...
since gooden is hurt right now and thabo hasnt really played that much… and of course hughes and simmons is dont play at all…..
by masputo on Feb 15, 2009 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
One of the main motivators of trading Amare is to cut costs, the only contract that is going to really help that in your trade is Ruffin’s. I think that unless gordon waives his no trade clause, two trades of this type are a no go.
btw you can put both those trades together in one shot
by MrPants on Feb 15, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but dont you think that maybe phoenix would be willing to make the trade since it involves noah and TT?
by masputo on Feb 15, 2009 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if cost cutting is their major motivation
additionally, with our current lineup of players they will peak roughly around the same time. Camby only has a couple of years left as a quality player, with just his trade i think you have an opportunity to improve the short term results of the team, without harming the long term prospects. Noah and TT are at an age where they can develop along with Rose. By trading them both i think you severely shorten the length of time the bulls could possibly win a championship
by MrPants on Feb 15, 2009 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good input...hyour probably right....
im just ready to see them win now…..
by masputo on Feb 15, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
another DREAM TRADE
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ajpkmc
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 15, 2009 10:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
or THIS!!!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=afpdkp
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 15, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or this!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c7xowy
Bulls send: Kirk, Noc, Gray
Bulls recieve: Camby, Travis Outlaw, Sergio Rodriguez, Brian Skinner
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
by kidronmusic on Feb 16, 2009 12:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You bastard...i hate you ;)
ignore the smiley ;) (but dont ignore that one…and now try to wrap your head around that idea…..)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 16, 2009 2:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
THIS IS IT!!!
THE MISSING PIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 16, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls fans loot and then burn the Berto Center! :)
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 16, 2009 7:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I look at the Clippers and start thinking about really off the wall stuff
like:
- “I’d be really interested to see what a Derrick Rose/Baron Davis backcourt would look like?”
- “If we’re going to hose 2010 anyway with Kaman, why not throw in Randolph”?
I mean, wouldn’t it be fun to watch something like:
G – Rose 34, Davis 14
G – Davis 18, Gordon 28
F – Deng 34, Thomas 14, Thabo
F – Randolph 32, Thomas 16
C – Kaman 32, Noah 16
I don’t know if it’d work, but I think it’d be a lot of fun.
by Sports2 on Feb 16, 2009 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Baron Davis would love playing behind Rose
and playing fewer minutes than Rose
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 16, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
um, he'd be starting alongside him in this scenario
and only 2 fewer minutes. boohoo.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Feb 16, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Or perhaps Kirk+Hughes for Camby+Baron. That’d be freakin crazy.
by Sports2 on Feb 16, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
(Following up an amare trade)
G- Rose
G- Baron, Gordon
F- Deng
F- Amare, Noc
C- Camby, Noah
Awesomeness. Or disaster. Not sure.
by Sports2 on Feb 16, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking awesomeness.
That team is automatically top 3 in the East THIS YEAR. Think of what they could do after playing together for half a year + off-season preparation. I don’t this lineup is possible financially, though. I think Noc would have to go somewhere to even come close to making room.
by Bulldozer on Feb 16, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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