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Walter Payton and Amare Stoudemire

     I finally figured out why I'm so lukewarm on the subject of Amare, and also why I'm not on the same page with so many here re a lot player transactions, Paxson, and various other subjects.  Don't get me wrong, I love the company of so many passionate fans and wish I could be in agreement more often.  And Walter Payton crystallizes my "problem".

     I consider Walter the greatest team sport athlete in history.  Not necessarily the best runner, but for sure the best running back.  And it comes down to what he did on the plays that he didn't carry the ball.  You see, the threat of what he might do could be as potent a weapon as the actual carries, and Walter put as much effort into those plays as he did his head-first goal line vaults over the entire line of scrimmage.  When he decoyed, he took the inevitable pounding that came from really selling the fake.  When he blocked, he was ferocious.  I saw him go up for an overthrown pass into a sandwich and leave both defenders on the ground semi-conscious.  He was never less than 100% supportive for any teammate, even those who through their lack of effort were stifling his achievements; same for coaches, mgt, owners, etc. 

     And I believe that this is the model for a winner.  There are at least a dozen running backs I can think of who might be a better pick for any particular play that involves them carrying the ball.  But I can't think of one superstar I'd choose over him for an entire game, let alone career.  I was disgusted when the end was near and fans were murmuring for him to step aside and let Neal Anderson take over; didn't they realize that Walter was still doing more than Neal would ever be capable of?  The truth is, they didn't.  They just saw the occasional breakaway that Payton just wan't capable of any longer.  The consistent 3-7 yard gains that resulted from really knowing the game weren't good enough.

     Contrast that with the mythical scorer who underachieves at all other aspects of the game, and it's easy to see where I'm going with this.  I HATE the super-talented but uncaring players who garner the huge NBA money because they are so easy to promote; the majority of fans are pretty simple in their understanding of the game.  I wonder what percentage of fans would understand that Duncan is one of the best ever if he didn't have the rings.   

     So, my tastes run for those who are trying to play Walter's game.  MJ was.  So was John Paxson.  So was Scottie.  Iverson wasn't.  Shaq usually wasn't.  And Amare isn't.  I think that what the Bulls have been trying to do for the past five years is put together a team that gets it.  I think the 49 win team symbolized the success that's available to any team that just plays the game right.  So does Jerry Sloan's consistent success.  And Popo's.  If you can add just one unstoppable force to that mix, you can win titles.  That's the gold ring that so many teams consistently overpay for, and fail to recognize that the crap they put out when not trying destroys the winning attitude bit by bit.  Occasionally teams have put so much talent out there they can get all the way to the title game, but come up short when playing a less talented team that plays 48 minutes of good basketball. 

     Yeah, I'll agree, Dream Team one isn't going to lose to anyone, ever.  So much talent, they can beat you playing one on one every time down the court.  It's just not the model I'd choose for building a team. 

     Walter, wherever you are, thanks for epitimizing everything I ever thought was good about sports.  I could go on for hours on this topic, but I have to go to work.  To all my friends at Blogabull (yes, I really like all of you, even you, Exult), have at it.  Hope to have a lively blogalogue with you later!

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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i liked the article...

but imo Jim Brown was the greatest back ever. But you are right that Walter is a pure mold of a winner.

by saplaxico on Feb 14, 2009 12:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Jim Brown was a killer

Eric Dickerson, Emmitt Smith, Bo Jackson, GALE SAYERS, Barry Sanders, etc, etc, etc. I think any one of them were capable of running a carry better than Walter might have. But Walter’s contribution to the good of the team apart from his carries sets him apart from anyone I’ve ever seen. You always hate to use the word “best”; it always provokes an argument.

by California Al on Feb 14, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Emiitt Smith is not in the discussion

Give Walter 5 all-pro lineman, Troy Aikman, and Michael Irving, and he runs for 20,000 yards minimum.

by tuluse on Feb 16, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope Rose shares the traits of durabiltiy with Payton (Sweetness, not Gary)

along with being a leader by quiet example of committing to being excellent on and off the field/court.

Maybe we can?

by Granny Waiters on Feb 16, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry Sloan has never won a title

Shaq’s won 4. I think the Team of Hustle Players sounds nice in theory, but hustle rarely wins over talent at the NBA level.

by YaoPau on Feb 14, 2009 2:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The 97 and 98 Jazz teams were good enough

that most years they would have won championships.

Maybe we can?

by Granny Waiters on Feb 14, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i was kinda sad

when they didn’t win in 99. as much as i loved to hate them, i knew they were a good team and were good enough to win if not for MJ.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Feb 14, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Touche, BUT

anyone else think that Shaq also could be pointed to for maybe 10 titles that weren’t won? Talent, he’s second to nobody. But that Orlando team was easily as loaded as Michael’s teams. Phil mandated a certain amount of good basketball whether Kobe or anyone else liked it or not, and I think that had a little to do with the titles (compare the pre-Phil Lakers roster; it was better). I was no great fan of that team, as I saw all of the non-compliance with the team-first play that the triangle is designed for.
   I’m not advocating a talentless bunch of sound fundamental types. I’m just saying I think Amare falls into the really good category, not quite up there with the great ones, and it’s the chemistry, integrity, character issues that I question. I think that he’s not the basket I want to put all our eggs in. I could be wrong!

by California Al on Feb 14, 2009 8:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even then Al

They purposely dismantled it further to please PJ. (Even though the dismantling really happened a year earlier under Del Harris.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Feb 16, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This article is Pax in a nutshell.

If the last four or five years have shown us anything, it’s that talent wins in this league. Sure, there are teams that play the game right(whatever that means), like the Jazz and Pistons, but those teams have all-stars and supreme talent. Even the Pistons, everybody’s answer to “what team won a championship without great players” had(s) great/very good players. At the time, Chauncey Billups was an elite point guard, and he’s still very, very good. Sheed is an outstanding player, and the same goes for Tayshaun Prince.
Like you said, 49 wins is out there for most NBA team that gives it it’s all, but 49 wins is just good, and good doesn’t cut it in this league.

by dakoose on Feb 14, 2009 2:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No argument there

But, I for one thought that the Pistons were anything but a no-star team; Billups, Rip, Sheed and Prince play great basketball. And I’ll explain what playing the game right means. It’s the obvious things that everyone knows you should do. Boxing out, being so involved on D that you are truly playing zone and man at the same time (as opposed to one or neither), preparing for your opponent so that you know where he wants to be and beating him to that spot, playing d with your feet, not your hands, looking for the best shot for your team and recognizing that it’s not always you.
   Phoenix HAS Amare. They’re actively trying to get rid of him. Tells me something. They’ve tried to build a team around him, and the owner, mgt, coach and fans apparently are pretty pessimistic and bailing out.

by California Al on Feb 14, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, totally agreed

Which is why we should patiently wait for Bosh (thus, giving TT a chance to really blossom) in 2010. I really don’t want another PG’s sloppy seconds…DRose needs his own unique David West, STAT, Boozer, etc.

by chicagosports23 on Feb 14, 2009 4:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

California Al

Here’s an article from today’s NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&hp

It talks about Battier and his value to a team. Interesting the similarities between this article and your thoughts. I share similar criteria, which leads me to value Bull’s players as I do.

by hlac on Feb 14, 2009 5:00 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Yeah,

and we don’t need the NYTimes to tell us Battier is super.

Nice job Cal Al! But remember, Amare does have a lot going for him, in contrast to his tough upbringing and family issues (it’s still tough and his family is still screwing up)! Without going into detail, his strong spirituality is self-developed and might indicate the type of thought process that would make it possible for the light bulb to “switch on” for him.

It’s interesting to note that he backed out of the National Team, citing fatigue and potential knee wear ‘n tear. It effectively set him apart from the LeBron and Kobe guys he wants to be included with, in retrospect. He’d always been all about representing Team USA before then, so I think he may have had genuine concerns for not only himself, but the Suns’ organization. Anybody’s guess if that was a selfish move, or if the switch will click for him after a trade.

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Feb 14, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

Didn’t know that about him.

by California Al on Feb 14, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Helluvan article

Amazing when you get a peek into their world how much more there is to their game than you might have imagined. Makes you wonder if Kobe knows those things about himself, doesn’t it? The example I think of as underappreciated was Luc Longley. I’d bet anything there was a lot Battier’s game involved in Luc’s play. Not so much trying to stop Ewing; just helping him to take less efficient shots.
   I was around 15 years old when my brother-in-law took me out of my all white element down to Navy Pier to play some “real” basketball. Got eaten alive, but I loved it. He told me to keep my eyes on their bellybuttons; they ain’t going anywhere without it. Sonofabitch, it worked! And it still worked 25 years later when I finally had to quit. And so I just don’t get it when a great NBA player just hasn’t learned that much about defense. It took 10 seconds to teach me how to stay in front of someone a LOT quciker than me; how do these guys get all the way to the NBA and not learn that?

by California Al on Feb 14, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

After actually

reading it all, I’m regretting my first sentence up there so, so much.

Should be required reading around here. Thx, hlac.

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Feb 14, 2009 11:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Great article.

by runningman on Feb 16, 2009 2:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

was gonna post the same thing

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Feb 14, 2009 6:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looking good, Smash

Real good. You know, I still get pretty choked up whenever I think about him.

by California Al on Feb 14, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As do I...

Even when I see his wife speak- like she did before the superbowl when she presented the award to Warner.

by smash! on Feb 15, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Different for football and basketball

In basketball you need the superstar to win the championship. You also need good contributing players, but you definitely need that superstar.

Whereas football is much more of a team sport.

by Looney_Bucky on Feb 15, 2009 1:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Good point, but I think we diverge on the meaning of superstar

I want a superstar. That word gets thrown around a lot, and very few players deserve it. Probably 2-3 per generation is enough for me. You’ve got Paul, Duncan, maybe KG, Kobe and Lebron. Sure, trade your whole team if you can get a young version of one of them. You have to be able to dominate on both ends of the floor before I’m comfortable with the word superstar.
   But, yeah, one man influences a five man game much more than a 42 man starting lineup, but that works both ways. Hell, the Bears went 1-13 with Sayers and Butkus. They one year had the worst offense in the NFL WITH Walter Payton; how bad were the rest? Get me a 22 year old version of one of the five guys above, and you can have this entire roster. A guy who thinks his work begins and ends with his 25 points doesn’t do it for me.

by California Al on Feb 15, 2009 2:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody is saying what he can't do....

But what about what he can he. I think he will prove people wrong and eventually become a way better defender. His rebounding is not all that bad (averaging 9 over his career), could be better. That’s all this team has needed for years, is low post scoring. If we would of had Amare and Rose two years ago the team would have went far. Let’s wait and see what happens…

by chi on Feb 15, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree; it seems like people are pegging him as a slimmer version of Eddy Curry--

All offense, no defense, poor rebounding.

But let’s not forget that right before his microfracture surgery, he was killing Tim Duncan in the playoffs—averaging 30+ points and 15+ rebounds in that playoff series, if I remember correctly. He was a one-man wrecking crew against the Spurs and a force of nature.

And while that represented the pinnacle for him statistically in any playoff series, he hasn’t been that far off of it on a number of occasions.

To me, the entire deal with acquiring him depends on Noah’s ability to cover for the weaknesses of Amare. And that’s no small issue, as Noah has shown periods of being a major flake in his short career thus far. But when focused and conditioned, Noah should be able to defend, rebound and block/alter shots.

And by the way, I love the Payton analysis above, but I also love the picture of Amare in a Payton jersey as well…

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Feb 15, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be a big mistake

Amare’s in a totally different class from Curry. He’s on the level of the highly talented but seemingly too selfish stars, and that’s my point. You see, the football players that I compared him too were HOF quality; Eric Dickerson seems most appropriate. And the flaw of the analogy is that football has 44 starters, and there is easily room for an imperfect attitude that brings along superior talent. The Bears had plenty of room AND need for Dent and Wilson along with Walter, Hampton and Singletary.
   Basketball, on the other hand, with only five starters and a cap that only allows for 2-3 stars is much more dependent on the chemistry factors. So to me, the superstars have the superior “me” game that allows them to dominate individually. They also have the superior “other guys” game that requires intelligence and energy. The ying and the yang of basketball. The one is very inclusive in its approach, the other very exclusive. The Battier article touched on this factor. Perfect example would Magic.
   Magic had the one on one game to put up stats that MJ and Lebron would have had to dream about. But his brilliance was in knowing how to energize and bring out the best in the rest of his team. If I can get all four of my partners playing their best for 48 minutes, even if I have to hold back and let one of them take a lower percentage shot than I had available occasionally, what I’m “paying for” in that exchange is the energy he’ll bring to the rest of the game.
   Compare the two Orlando series we played against Shaq. Shaq-Penny was as good a 2 man game at that point as you’ll ever find. But their brilliance wasn’t the stroy in the first series. It was that no matter how well we took the challenge, Anderson, Scott and Grant were all carrying and using daggers. And Nick f8ing Anderson was the Jordan stopper for one series. Scott was Ray Allen. Grant was his best. Fast forward to the rematch of the two best teams in the league the next year.
   We swept them, and I saw it coming by the 3rd quarter of game one. Shaq and Penny went for about 85 in game one. But at a certain point, I saw Nick and Scott standing open in their spots waiting for the ball with that wtf look on their faces that we all get after a certain amount of tolerating a ballhog on our team. Their d slowed down a little, the rebounding, the dirty work stuff that comes from playing balls out, and then Grant went out with his injury. We owned them, and this young juggernaut of a team just fell apart.
   You see, I saw Walter get fat ass Revy Sorrie to get out and block like Anthony Munoz once in a while. He inspred everyone around him, and when he called for your best, how could you say no? You gotta earn that right by showing that it’s all about paying the price for the team yourself. I reserve the title superstar for those few individuals that have both elements to their game.
   So it’s not a question if I’d take Amare over Tyrus. That’s a no-brainer, because he’s much better than TT and probably better and not a lot more expensive than TT’s ceiling. The rumored trade that I’m ambivolous about is TT and Noah and a #1, and the inference that we also lose Gordon because of the money. That’s a pretty expensive package, and I’m thinking you only give that much up if the target is a true superstar, or you have so many quality pieces that you can afford it for a mere star. And I think that Amare and Rose right now are only guaranteed to be stars. Now, if, as Matt points out below, Rose does become the superstar, there is a chance that we’ll be able to surround them with the role players necessary to win. But if Amare really does have the ability to drive away key players (Marion) or slow down when he feels like he’s not featured enough, those are dangerous tendencies that could surface again, and then where would we be? So, it’s not a slimmer Curry I’m afraid of, it’s a better Gooden that I think you ought to think twice about.

by California Al on Feb 16, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

Amare played on a D’Antoni team with Nash, Marion, and Johnson and they did not win anything. All of those players are (much) better than what the Bulls have right now. How is Amare going to win with this bunch when he couldn’t win with better players and a better coach?

Does that alone mean we shouldn’t trade for Amare? I don’t think so, but I do think that people should recognize that adding Amare doesn’t make the team an insta-winner. Players like Payton are great, in part, because they are multi-dimensional. He could run, catch, pick up blitzes, etc. Vintage Shaq could rebound, score, patrol the paint, etc. Pippen could defend, run the offense and score. These guys are legendary players because they had so many skills.

Amare is awesome at one thing and that’s scoring. That’s not an indictment of him, it’s just a fact. The Bulls need help with frontcourt scoring, but they also need other things (like defense and, in particular, post defense). Amare addresses one issue. I’m OK with getting Amare so long as there is some plan to address our other issues, but I don’t think there is one. The Bulls have the pieces to make one great trade. Yes, we’d get that All-Star we lack in Amare, but what then? Seems to me that if we are putting our eggs in one basket, we should be looking for that multi-dimensional player.

by Stay Chisel on Feb 15, 2009 12:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

who is that multi-dimensional player that's actually available? Right, he isn't out there.

So grab the best talent available, pair him with Rose, and worry about building from there later.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Feb 15, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thats the thing

OP makes a solid point. But of course in all sports, but especially in the NBA, your talking about maybe a handful of guys each decade that approach this level of dedication to every aspect, while still having the skill to be in a truly elite difference maker.

by reprisal on Feb 15, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What people seem to leave out of this conversation

is that it’s almost guaranteed that if Amare comes, Ben doesn’t get paid, and sayonara BG. So if our scroing at the four goes up from TT’s level to Amare’s, but our scoring from the 2 goes from Ben’s down to Kirk or Thabo’s, how have we gotten better? And then you’re talking about going from Noah to Gray or Noc at the other frontcourt position. Still looks like a team who’s ceiling is under 50 wins and no real playoff threat.
   Could the current group play to that level? I think so. In fact, I’d say if Deng just shows up with his average game we’re already there, and knowing full well that Noah, Tyrus and Rose are pretty much guaranteed to improve dramtically and very soon. So back to my analogy, if I can watch an 8-6 Walter Payton team or an 8-6 Eric Dickerson team, I will enjoy one and hate the other.

by California Al on Feb 16, 2009 8:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

forget about worrying if Amare is like Payton

that role is for Derrick Rose.

I think all these years of wanting to trade for a superstar has made us forgotten that while this year we’re trading for a superstar…we already have one in the fold. It’s a different situation, the addition doesn’t have to be perfect. Rose has to be perfect. If he’s not the team’s screwed Amare or not.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2009 5:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If the mythical Derrick Rose materializes

this group can be as good the one that’s left after TT-Noah-Gordon-#1 are gone for Amare. IMO, better. Like I said above, Take the roster that’s played the last dozen or so games and make 2 small tweaks: Deng and Vinnie quit losing games, and you’ve got your 50 win baby Bulls back, and I like them already. Do you realize how pumped we’d be right now if not for having Thabo in and Rose out 5 seconds ago? All it took was for the staff to realize what we’ve been screaming for over a year: sit Hughes and Gordon down and run with our lottery picks.

by California Al on Feb 16, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the realistic best case for Rose is playing on a level similar to what

D-Wade is currently doing, and not the level of MJ in his prime. If Amaré is on the Bulls, the team still needs a very good third option to contend (e.g. Gordon signed long term, Deng healthy and playing up to the limit of his talent, Joe Johnson signed as a FA if Gordon leaves). Deng’s play this season has not been confidence inspiring, and JR luxury tax allergy may prevent the other options.

Maybe we can?

by Granny Waiters on Feb 16, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Iverson

not sure why you say he doesn’t get it. The guy certainly gives his all every game. I suppose he isnt that involved when he doesnt have the ball, but football isn’t basketball, there’s no one for Iverson to block and he always has been better on D than you’d expect for a sub 6 foot guy his size.

by JSlakov on Feb 15, 2009 6:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

he gives it his all, as much as anyone can..

but sometimes he makes bad decisions, and (particularly on defense) no amount of talent and effort can help him overcome his height.

by smegmatic on Feb 15, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because a ballhog takes his teammates out of their game

Even if he’s more efficient scoring than they are, he takes a lot of the fun out of playing.

by California Al on Feb 16, 2009 8:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ball hog

Michael Jordan’s career Usage Rate is higher than Iverson’s. Just saying.

by JSlakov on Feb 16, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

TS% for Jordan on the Bulls

was 0.580 while Iverson’s up through last season was 0.519. That is a HUGE difference in scoring efficiency.

Maybe we can?

by Granny Waiters on Feb 16, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

obviously

the point isn’t who’s better, its about playing style

by JSlakov on Feb 17, 2009 5:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Taking a lot of shots is good when you make them (MJ)

and terrible when you don’t (Larry Un-Legend).

Maybe we can?

by Granny Waiters on Feb 17, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bingo and thank you

Remarkable thing about MJ’s efficiency was the quantity of buzzer beaters he had to take because the offense was built around trying to create a shot within the triangle for 16-18 seconds, and then give it to Mike when it fails. I’m simply guessing here, but I imagine that AI got the ball much earlier in the clock on average, and the lower % shots were largely his own doing.

by California Al on Feb 17, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

MJ's high usage was predominantly a positive effect

but even at his greatness, it triggered resentment at times (Horace Grant in particular). With maturity, he seemed to understand how to time his “ballhoggedness” in ways that promoted a unified team. Of course, adding low usage stars like Rodman and Harper gave Jordan the ball all he wanted. And at a certain point, it was an unquestioned reality that whatever MJ felt like doing was a 99.9% probability to be the right thing.

by California Al on Feb 16, 2009 9:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and

when Iverson carried a team to the Finals full of terrible players who would go on to sign contracts that they never came close to earning, I suspect they felt the same

by JSlakov on Feb 17, 2009 5:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Subtract AI and add Billups, you get better

Subtract Billups, add AI and you get worse. Subtract AI and add Andre Miller and you get better. I like AI, I just don’t like the tag superstar for him. When he was on the market 2 years ago, very few teams made a run at him. How many do you think would line up if a true superstar was available?

by California Al on Feb 16, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well

he’s not the player he once was. in his prime though I think he qualifies as Payton-esque which is what this thread is about, isn’t it?

by JSlakov on Feb 17, 2009 5:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mmmmm, yes and no

First, if you’re an AI fan, no slight intended. But your own comment about being disinterested when he doesn’t have the ball was my essential point about Payton-esqueness. His interest and effort were the same, whatever role he had in a play: 110%. I shudder to think of the damage he would have done as a safety. He’d have made Doug Plank look like Miss Manners.
   To your previous comment, no doubt about it, AI is on that plateau of players who can take a horrible team and give them instant credibility, all by himself. For that purpose, he may have been MJ’s peer. But for team building, he doesn’t measure up. If you listen to that infamous “practice?” rant, he honestly asked “How the hell am I going to make my teammates better by practicing?”. Does that sound Paytonesque? More like the Antipayton.

by California Al on Feb 17, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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