David Thorpe 2/11
Adam (Oakland, CA): In February, Tyrus Thomas is averaging 18 pts, 11 rebs, 2 blocks, in just under 40 min. You've worked with him in the past. Can he really put it together to be this good, or do you think he'll always show flashes before once again regressing to the inconsistent 20 ft jump shooter he sometimes insists on being?SportsNation David Thorpe: In reality, he's been playing at a high level since 12/1. Just getting more minutes now. Everyone misses jumpers-and at 22, he misses just a bit more. He'll get better.Marty (Chicago, IL): Would getting Amare make the Bulls better in the long run, or is this outburst from Tyrus Thomas for real? Thomas is a better defender and rebouder and is younger. You figure that if he improves on not turning the ball over you could get better production from him if he keeps this up.SportsNation David Thorpe: To me, if the Bulls want to make a run now and next year, it's a no-brainer. You have to get Amare. if instead they have a 3 year window to progress with Rose, Thomas, Noah, Deng-all 24 or younger, then that dictates standing pat.Mike (Jersey): Dave, you are the Bulls GM, do you pull the trigger on Tyrus, Noah, Gooden, Sefolosha and draft pick for Amare? Yes or No?SportsNation David Thorpe: It's never as simple as that, especially in this economy. Financial decisons will play a big part.Kevin (Williamsburg, VA): David, on the basketball court and for the future, is giving up Tyrus Thomas for Amar'e Stoudemire a good idea? I know you mentioned financial considerations earlier, but if that wasn't an issue what would you do if you were Paxson?SportsNation David Thorpe: I'd probably do the trade-using an asset to acquire Amare is wise. See the Jefferson for KG deal. But it's a tough call either way, as Tyrus brings tons of energy and defense to the equation.Steve: Luol Deng looked back on form since returning from injury but the last couple of games he's struggled and reverted to his early season self. What do you make of this..?SportsNation David Thorpe: When the Bulls don't move the ball, he gets shut out and ends up hunting shots too much. Hope it gets turned around. I think it will.
about 3 years ago
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About the standing pat to possibly win later, and the win now thought
You always want to win now, getting amare might not make us contenders (theres only like 4 teams that are actual contenders this year) but it makes us a hellava lot stronger, amare makes a great trade chip next year to maybe get some last minute things done for 2010 and im not sure how next years draft is but a couple of picks would be able to be recieved when trading amare. Also if we dont sign gordon this offseason, and we have amare, we at least have someone who can consistantly make up those 20pts we lose with gordon so we could be winning now and still be planning for the future if we have amare if we play it right….just a thought
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I'm with you
I don’t get the stigma of taking a shot. That’s one of the benefits of having a 20 year old future franchise PG. Can take a shot now, can take a shot later.
Like you said, say you have Amare and then something comes up where Hughes’ contract can be used? Or in 2010 Amare played decently but isn’t going to work out, sign/trade him or purge for Bosh or whatever.
I just don’t see a lot of ‘floor’ with this option (granted, only talking about the Noah/Tyrus + spare parts deal). Amare is going to be really good, Rose is going to get better. The team can’t be bad with those two plus Deng plus Tyrus/Noah plus Gordon, etc. If they never get a championship then try, try again.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 11, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure I'm with you on this one
Thing is, it seems very possible to me that the Bulls are bad in the sort run if they give up too much to get Amare. (EG playing an Amare/Gray/Noc frontcourt). If they rectify this by trading for post-2010 salary (such as Kaman), they aren’t necessarily under the cap and in a position to re-load.
The timing off all the contracts has to be be considered very carefully. It’s just not a given that they can reload. Look at Toronto, for example. It’s easy to look at them and say hey, Bosh and Calderon are young, why don’t they just wait a couple years and then they can go for it again? You add a Jason Kapono here or an Andres Nocioni there and you’re screwed.
Too cautious
too many things that can happen in the future that could be worse by standing pat i think.
What happens that ben gordon decides not to sign with the bulls because they couldnt trade noch and hinrich on time or he is just too bitter with a losing organization.
what happens if lebron stays in clevland, wade in miami, and bosh is whisped away by New York, do we then go after Amare, with a losing team? With limited money?
What if tyrus and noah dont pan out the way we are hoping he will?
A front court of amare gray and noch is bad, but its probably easier to trade to get a big center who can rebound some and play defense as opposed to landing a star like amare in the future. I think matt also hinted that its easier to throw our marbles into a gamble now, and if it doesnt work out in the next 3 or 4 years we could still rebuild and try again in the future because rose is only 20 (so he has a good 12-14 years barring any motorcycle accidents) and the bulls have a really good gamble here that could really put them in that “one piece away” category (Rose, Gordon, Deng, Amare…..i mean c’mon!!! One defensive center and thats contention) and we still have alot of good assets that NEED to packaged together for star power.
The only that is too much for amare is giving away Rose. a combo of any other guy is still gonna put us in a good situation. You will have a pure pg in Rose, and a post player (though not traditional) in Amare….both are definite all stars not just potentials.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
you traded away Noah without my permission
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 11, 2009 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
Kevin in Williamsburg is ME!
=) made it into one of Thorpedo’s chats. It was a good day.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 11, 2009 3:55 PM CST reply actions
I think the Garnett/Jefferson, Thomas/Stoudemire comparison is a little off
I guess KG/Jefferson deal would be a higher denominator of the Thomas/Stoudemire deal, but Stoudemire comes with a lot more injury risks than Garnett. I can’t accurately find an injury of Garnett that subsequently needed surgery, while we all know Stoudemire’s track record in that regard.
If NBA rumblings want to mix up the rumors and throw in a trade of Garnett for Thomas,Noah,everyonenotnameddengandrose, I’d be all for that, however.
Other differences
(1) Amare is significantly younger than Garnett.
(2) Jefferson is significantly bigger and was more offensively polished than Tyrus.
Jefferson was always projecting to be a pivot player, able to create offense in the post. Even if he didn’t pan out completely, he’d be a starter-quality post scorer. Tyrus does not come with that guarantee. He might be incredibly productive and awesome, but as Thorpe says, he’s more of an “energy guy.” He’ll bulk a little bit with age, and so will have the opportunity to do some things in the post that he can’t right now, but he’s never going to be like Al Jeff. This is one of the reasons it’s so hard to properly value him.
I agree with you, because KG impacts games a lot more than Stoudemire. He's been one of the league's
most dominant players for a decade, and he does as much if not more damage on defense than he does on offense. Also, at the time of the deals, Big Al probably had more value than Tyrus does now. The situations are also different in an important way. The Bulls entire core is really really young. The Celtics on the other hand had one veteran All Star that was frustrated with all the losing. They knew if they wanted to win with Pierce it had to be now or never. The Bulls aren’t in that situation. All of their best players are 25 years old or younger. They could just let this group grow and develop together and have a really special team. Deng is already really, really good, if a bit inconsistent from night to night, Ben Gordon is one of the league’s best and most efficient scorers at the 2 guard (pay the man, Jerry), Rose is going to be an All-Star in a year or two, and Tyrus and Noah appear to be just scratching the surface of their respective potential, with Noah being closer to his ceiling than Tyrus due to his age and his horrendous shooting form. We’re in a different situation, I’m fine with not getting Stoudemire, and I’m with Matt, I would absolutely not want STAT if it meant Noah and Thomas go because Tyrus and Noah > Stoudemire + Gray. The Big Pasty is that bad.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 11, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just glad "Big Pasty" stuck.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
The 3 year window comment
is the one that resonated with me. I always think long term. But I’d say anything/everything short of Rose And Tyrus.
But mostly I hope nothing (extreme) happens. I could easily see a Bulls/Suns Amare trade being bad for both teams.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
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