2 more blowout losses
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 7, 2009 1:10 AM CST
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PrintSo, it wasn't just a circus trip, nor even being on the road that the catalyst for these Bulls blowouts. After being completely annihilated at home to the Raptors on Saturday night, it looks like it can happen against any team, and it's at the point where I'm having trouble remembering how the Bulls won the 7 they did.
But it's not a panic time yet. I don't think a coaching change is imminent, the Org. knows they're undermanned right now and are paying for the shoddy 'depth' they assembled in the offseason, and VDN really has few options. While they likely know by now he's not some coaching savant to be further groomed, though as long as VDN is fired before free agency begins it will have the same effect on the team's courting as if he's fired now. I still say there's a potential nightmare (yes, things can get worse) scenario if VDN is fired and the assistants are as bad (and uninterested with player development) as Jim friggin' Boylan was. Bernie Bickerstaff does have by far the most experience, though I still think the last thing he wants is the pressure of the big chair again, and he'd likely show it in his performance. I'd still say it's too much risking that result if they fire him now, but it does become less of an issue if more losses mount.
And I actually don't think they've quit on VDN as much as they're not as good as we hoped when fully healthy (Salmons and Miller being worse than expected, Rose not taking a leap forward), and terrible when injuries add up. Sure, there's the now-famous shoe defense, but I actually thought Luol was (alright, a bit lazily) using the opportunity to switch back defensive assignments after the Raps got an offensive rebound, though Pargo waved him off. It looked worse than it was. The issue isn't not playing hard when down, it's getting so far down in the first place. And I think it's mostly because they're untalented and poorly coached, though no more poorly than last year to where they've 'given up'.
Remember, it was actually all the way into late January last season when the Chairman came down from on high and sent notice to the team (and coaching staff in particular), so it's not like VDN hasn't started a season slowly before. The schedule will get easier like it always does, and the team will get more healthy. Or they will do another trade like last season, where they give up future assets for immediate help and further payroll flexibility. Last year it was John Salmons' arrival spelling the end for Gordon's future, and this year Tyrus could be the one out for any serviceable veteran to get the point differential somewhere under 25 each night.
The Bulls still could be seen as a 'team on the rise' if Noah keeps playing well (and being the true captain of the team) and Rose shows any improvement (have we seen it yet? at all?), and they sneak into the playoffs. I'm not sure LeBron James or Chris Bosh would see that end result and DQ the Bulls as a destination because their current teams blew out the Bulls in December. Though it won't be a mark in the 'pro' column of their free-agent checklist...and I can't help but think one of the biggest items in the 'con' list would be the current head coach.
And if VDN is given a reprieve just by being one of the top-8 in the East (and it may be true his 3rd year is fully guaranteed?), maybe making the playoffs wouldn't be worth it if his mere presence indicates the Bulls are not serious about competing for championships?
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An interesting point about VDN as a selling point
While’s he older than Lebron/Bosh/etc, I really can’t imagine any of those guys respecting him. Del Negro was a punchline last year and we’re really to believe Lebron would entrust part of his efforts to win a championship to VDN? Get real.
It’s not by accident that many of the great players in the NBA had great coaches. Shaq working together with Wade? Took Riley. Kobe finally playing team ball (to some degree)? Took Phil Jackson. We have some selling points with Rose and Noah, what we need is a superstar Coach to lure a superstar player.
by The90sBullsRevival on Dec 7, 2009 1:45 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think that a new coach now is actually justifed, but it won't happen.
I’m tired of seeing the ball not in Derrick Rose’s hands. His role in the “offense” is him bringing the ball up UNLESS Lindsay Hunter(!) or Kirk are in the game. Sometimes, infrequently, he’ll look to score. Mostly, it seems to me, he passes the ball and moves to corner. It’s ludicrous. For Rose to improve, they need to make him the focus of the offense and maybe he’ll learn what to do. And seriously, against TOR when Hunter was in the game with Rose, wasn’t Hunter running point? Did I imagine that? That’s beyond bizarre.
The possible benefits of an interim coach could be:
1) Bulls tank and get a better draft pick
2) Interim coach insists Derrick dominate the ball
I think reason number 2 makes it worth the risk. If VDN stays, it’ll be a wasted season for Rose’s development. And Rose is more likely to be the next good Bulls team than any of the 2010 free agents.
Of course, I think the Bulls keep VDN till offseason and maybe beyond. They don’t care about winning this season and they don’t want to pay another coach in addition to VDN.
Is there a coach out there that would be a decent hire? I’m not enamored with either Avery Johnson or Byron Scott…I don’t know who the Bulls should hire.
I've been extremely impressed
with Jeff Van Gundy’s knowledge of the game, listening to him do the broadcasts. I think he’d do a good job.
by The90sBullsRevival on Dec 7, 2009 1:55 AM CST up reply actions
Plus he's got
all the credibility he needs having been to the finals and various intense playoff wars in the cruelest media market imaginable.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 7, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
agreed completely
I also like how he’s unafraid to speak his mind about the league in general. Rips on the foul out rule, etc…
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 7, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
"When they tell you not to panic, that's when you run!"
j/k
I almost hate you, yfbb, for bring up the possible scenario of Bickerstaff=Boylan if Vinny is fired. This organization just crushes every hope Bulls fan have.
"You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless! You gotta hope even more, and cover your ears and go 'bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!'"
Bring in Byron Scott
Atleast the guy has a championship under his belt playing and brought the Nets to the Finals. Kinda similar to a Doc Rivers scenario.
Before the Pistons game I saw Gar Forman walking up the aisle and he looks directly at me noticing him. About 10 seconds later I was so mad at myself for not saying two words to him. BYRON SCOTT!
Just wanted him to have that in his mind. Still pissed at myself I shouldve ran after him, but I didn’t.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Dec 7, 2009 2:09 AM CST reply actions
But Scott in New Orleans didn't work out that well
He had a more talented team than the Bulls and they folded in the playoffs last season and this starting this season.
I don’t know. He be better than VDN, but I’m not sure he’d be good.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 7, 2009 2:17 AM CST up reply actions
I think those Hornet teams were more talented than some give credit to. But I thought they had a number of injuries last year still too even Utah was having a hard time recovering last year. (though they had more injuries)
And Scott did lead 2 Nets teams to the finals which looks like that’ll never happen again. And granny made a good point about the 50 point loss to the Nuggets last year. Even Jerry Sloans Jazz got beat by 42 to the Bulls in the Finals and held under 60 points.
Him and Avery to me have a bad rap it seems but looking at the market of coaches they’re probably at the top of the list I’d think if a team is looking around.
I'm not completely sold on him either
However he has shown that he knows what to do with talented PG’s.
And also with NO that orginzation seems like its quiting on itself for financial reasons. That’s just the feeling I’ve got from them.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Dec 7, 2009 2:30 AM CST up reply actions
Paul didn't want him to get fired and he didn't want Tyson to get traded.
Both of those moves are what the Org decided was right. Paul will soon force a trade out of N.O as soon as he has leverage. Unless they pull of something to make him stay when his contract is up and they will get a kings ransom for Paul.
Homecoming
concentrate on iring del negro first
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Dec 7, 2009 8:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There's no real advantage to not making the playoffs
I’d rather see the Bulls get blown out in a quick playoff series—what’s the alternative? We get the 11th pick instead of the 16th? We might as well get to say we were in the playoffs.
long
attack, run, hustle, energy and …no real position.
by Sambossanova on Dec 7, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
VDN is an albatross heading into free agency. No matter what happens
I consider all the scenarios, and not of them seem very good.
VDN stays + Bulls stink = No coach going into free agency. The Bulls will face a strong pressure to hire a big name that attracts FAs, won’t they?
VDN stays + Bulls make the playoffs = I don’t see how you can fire him. That almost seems like the best case scenario, because I think FAs want to come to a team that can offer stability and winning. At least offering the facade of stability and winning is the best the Bulls can hope for.
Oops, meant to keep going
Vinnie is fired + Bulls stink = Proof the team just stinks and evidence against a FA coming.
Vinnie is fired + Bulls make playoffs = Maybe not so bad. We’re perceived as righting the ship, turning things around, and being on the rise.
I love the last scenario
Especially if the Bulls hired a good coach who took the best out of Rose. That would be attractive enough to a FA
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
It'd all be dependent on that "if"
“If the Bulls hired a good coach” it’d be more attractive to a FA.
What are the odds of that? Not great.
And even if they did, the roster is a mess. We’ve got both too many injuries and a fairly poor mesh of talent.
Excluding Miami, that have a pretty solid roster and a certain guy named Dwyane Wade which teams have what we can?
I just see the Nets, with an All-Star PG in Harris, a very good C in Brook Lopez and others useful players like Williams, CDR or Lee. NY has lots of money and a wonderful coach, but a very bad roster…
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
NY has a coach and GM that players respect
I don’t think that’s a HUGE deal, but it matters.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 7, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
NY has also proven
they will spend to win. Chicago has not.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 7, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
yup
and even the Nets could get into that category if the Shady Russian Billionare makes some splashy moves (or at least promises) upon getting ownership.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 7, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
It's vertually impossible to hire a good coach during the season
That’s why it was imperative that the Bulls hire a coach last summer-like Rambus.
Maybe if the Bulls are lucky, D'Antoni will get fed up in NYK.
Hire him, trade Hinrichin a complicated sign-and-trade for Gordon and Chris Bosh once Stuckey proves to be crap and Detroit can’t trade Hamilton, somehow acquire Ty Lawson and DeJuan Blair for Taj Gibson and James Johnson*. Have Benny the Bull repeatedly punch Salmons in the groin until he opts out.
*Has there ever been an incidence where two draft picks have such lesser value than the picks that so many could see would have been the right choice? You couldn’t trade the upcoming 16th and 26th picks for one of Blair or Lawson or Budinger, let alone Gibson or Johnson. Fuck, this organization is horrible.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
4 games in 5 nights this week
Nets at the UC, then we travel to Atlanta, then a day off, then we host Golden State and finally host the Celtics.
I sure hope Kirk is back tomorrow. I can’t watch this team play Lindsey Hunter and Aaron Gray. When is Tyrus expected to return?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
I'm actually fascinated to watch how this plays out
If you fire VDN now or relatively soon, doesn’t that imply Gar Pax think he’s a bigger issue than the roster they have provided? Conversely, the longer he stays (and the more blow outs that follow) tell me they acknowledge their own complicity in this utter failure of a team.
But’s that the problem….what’s the right path when both VDN and Gar Pax are to blame for this mess?
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Ultimately Gar Paxdorf is responsible for hiring VDN
so he deserves all the blame.
Blaming VDN is like blaming the garbage for stinking but being too damn lazy to take it out.
right, they're the only ones to blame when he's fired
but geez, does anyone have greater job security than Pax? Part of being the amalgam of Gar Paxdorf means all the parts stay. I suppose that’s a good thing, that they wouldn’t not fire Vinny out of fear of losing their jobs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 7, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe what we are seeing is the reality of a bad team
There’s one thing that keeps popping in my head as I watch this team. It’s the stretch of games after the Bulls traded Gooden and Noc and Hughes and before Salmons and Miller arrived. I can’t remember what their record was, but during that stretch you saw a faster, more athletic, and unselfish team.
Also I remember Tyrus finally getting decent minutes along with BG and even though the were undermanned, it seemed like a better team. Miller and Salmons comes along and all of a sudden VDN messes with the lineups to give the “vets” their time and this is the team that goes into the playoffs.
I think the assumption that this team was improved with the additions of Salmons and Miller was a myth and that if the Bulls had stuck with a core of Rose, BG, Noah , and Tyrus, they would be better off today. I think Salmons should’ve stayed at SF with Deng, with Miller’s minutes being decreased. Then Paxdorf could’ve drafted Ty Lawson and Blair and been in great shape for 2010.
Those 2 players right now are what is ailing this team and why they are worse now than ever before. Other than Noah, I can’t find another player that compliments Rose on the floor and that’s where the problem lies.
Dils you are right on the money, and I have a rant to follow you up!
I go to different Bulls forums just to see the thought process among the Bulls faithfull. Almost unanimous all of the fans are calling for the trade of Tyrus Thomas. Why? Most of these guys don’t know anything about basketball and are still bitter about not getting Alderidge. Well Alderidge maybe a more fundamental post player, but he doesn’t have the overall presence, game change ability, defensive play nor the energy that Tyrus brings to this team. Last year Tyrus came into his own before Noah did and was more consistent, no knock on Noah just real talk. The Bulls best move wasn’t so much getting Salmons and Miller, I think it was getting rid of Nocioni and Thabo. Nocioni was tempermental, argumentative, and one dimensional. When Tyrus was forced to play do to lack of players he was almost dominant without having a set offensive role. And as far as this trade talk, Tyrus isn’t playing right now and the Bulls are struggling. Instead of saying Tyrus is missed, some say “well he only averages 10 points anyway, it makes no difference.” wrong, he makes a big difference, and his minutes are down, and of those minutes, at least one quarter of that time is spent playing SF where he’s further isolated out of the offense and taken away from the defending the rim making him further irrelevent. Then you again look at the fact that the man isn’t out there while the Bulls are getting blown out so why is he being discussed being sent away? The Bulls played well without Deng last year, Salmons hasn’t done much this year and was good but not great last year, Rose was struggling, yet Tyrus whose minutes and role is being jerked is being called to be sent off…….it’s senseless. As I said before the season even started, Tyrus cannot have a good season because it will cause more of a disruption when he’s not brought back, kind of like how so many are still upset about B.G being gone. If Tyrus is averaging 10pts, while playing about 15 minutes at PF, what would he do playing close to 30 minutes a game? Getting Wade, or Bosh, or Amare won’t bring this team a championship. None of these guys have won anything by themselves, and they’ve all had better supporting casts than they’ll have in Chicago. This free agent move is all about getting a star to fill the seats and get the owner more money!
Here's the thing about Thomas
People that don’t like TT says tht he isn’t great defensively and that he takes too many jumpers. They feel tht he should play under the basket and get cleanup points and rebound. In other words they want him to be Ben Wallace. My take is this: I don’t see him as Ben Wallace. I see him as a more athletic Kirelinko(sp). If more people saw him that way, they’d cut him some slack.
He is an impact player and a stat stuffer meaning that his game will not always be determined by his stats but his impact on the court will be reflected in what other teams do while he’s out there. He’s going to give you 14-10-2 but also play well in transition and change shots and the approach of teams.
To me he’s the anti Deng. What everybody praises Deng for is what he can do at his position , but nothing he does impacts the game. Who care if he rebounds well at his position? Can he take over a game? Can he win you a game? Do you even notice when Deng is on the court? This organization has a weird philosophy whether they realize it or not, to get rid of impact players, in favor of guys who are “well-rounded” but that can’t do one thing well.
Calling Kirk a “combo” guard is a nice way of saying that he isn’t good at one particular thing. Or saying Deng is a key part of a championship team because he gives you 18 pts a game and rebounds well for a SF is a way of ignoring the fact that he’s non-athletic and that his best shot is the worst shot in basketball. I think what Tyrus adds is unique and what BG added was unique but that’s not enough for some people.
being well rounded does make an impact
just a different one.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 7, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Well then it depends
on the degree of being well rounded. If we’re talking Scottie Pippen then yeah I’ll take 12 of those, but to me Luol Deng doesn’t offer me enough in any area that I feel is an impact on the court. He isn’t a stopper defensively, he isn’t so good at shooting his jumper that it impacts the game either, nor is he a great rebounder. I think Tyrus for all his deficiencies has moments on the court that have such an impact and that can have a direct affect on the game.
12 pippens = a dozen of the top 50 all time = pretty good team i guess?
There’s one thing that keeps popping in my head as I watch this team. It’s the stretch of games after the Bulls traded Gooden and Noc and Hughes and before Salmons and Miller arrived. I can’t remember what their record was, but during that stretch you saw a faster, more athletic, and unselfish team.
it is so sad to me that we never really got to see that team. (and mr rhythm? the terrible thabo was on it.)
your “hating” attitude on deng seems misplaced and bizarre. to me, deng’s attributes complement tyrus very well. the problem comes from the fact that (while they both can and will score the ball), you need a very strong offensive backcourt with them. and it is compounded with noah at center.
but if you had wade with those guys (noah, tyrus, deng, rose)….
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
Marionette no knock on Deng, but almost every SF in the league can do what he does.
Rose is a special talent, Tyrus is a special talent, Noah has something special too with his passion and drive. Deng is average to good, with no one thing he does really good. He’s a solid defender, a solid rebounder, a decent scorer when the matchups favor him, but that’s it. He’s like what Dils said he is, a good complimentary player but nothing special. Thabo was another decent player, but besides solid defense he didn’t bring much else to the table, so in regards to him Salmons was a upgrade.
and i will insist
that if you make a habit to watch off the ball, you’ll see that what deng does is clearly above average.
(gentlemanly shoe-tie etiquette notwithstanding!)
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
I have nothing further to add to what Dils and Mr Rythm have so clearly pointed out except to say Ditto to both of you
and yes, once they actually allowed Tyrus to stay on the court without wearing his bunjee cord, the Bulls started winning more consistently last season. But our insecure, novice skipper felt he needed veterans who actually knew how to play the game to be on the floor to provide the leadership, savvy and smarts that he so sorely lacks in abundance once he got some new toys to play with. If the Knicks do grab Tyrus, I predict the Bulls will need some large absorbent towels to wipe the massive amount of eggs on their faces.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Dec 7, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
I was on the wagon last week thinking that VDN's job was safe
But after the last two, I don’t think even the injury excuse could save him.
Unlike Matt, I do think the team has quit on him. They look disinterested and careless with the ball and running the offense.
It also makes sense considering the Bulls history of letting go of their coaches around this time.
This team needs an immediate shake up and even Reindsdorf can’t be too thrilled with the backlash . . . even if the fans STILL come.
Whether Bernie takes over or not, at least it gives the fans and players notice that they’re not pleased with the results.
And considering that this is the season based on giving, why not give us fans some hope for once?
I second the motion for Noah as Team captain...
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
by exult463 on Dec 7, 2009 1:05 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
There is no simple solution to bulls ills
Firing VDN is a knee-jerk move that might result in even more losses (who knows). I dont like VDN’s style of coaching, but I think the problem is more player orientated than coaching. The bulls have been a small, jump shooting team for over 4 or 5 years. A serious attempt to aquire a big man who can score in the post has never been accomplished. (what was the excuse for passing on P. Gasol when he was drowning in memphis?) and to be a serious competitor in the league, you have to find ways to get easy points in the paint. I find it hard to fathom that if Phil Jackson was coaching this team right now they would be doing any better. A few of the players are talented (rose), some are hard workers (noah). Thats all. The rest if the team is below mediocre. And to add fuel to the fire, the team has no real floor leader, no go to guy, and no identity. Its really asking alot from a guy coaching in his 2nd season to squeeze out the most effort and and maximize the most talent he has available to him. Its a tough problem bc its more than just bad coaching.
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 7, 2009 1:10 PM CST reply actions
If Phil was coaching this team.
We wouldn’t worry about him taking players out of the game when they are HOT!
agreed, but there is more to the way the bulls are losing games then bad subs
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 7, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Bad subs yes
Bad subs every game?Can’t have that.At least play JJ more thats the least he can do instead of garbage time.But I agree bad subs aren’t the only thing.
This is kinda interesting.
Those talks are on hold, as the Knicks would still like to acquire Thomas and evaluate to see if he’s worth re-signing as a restricted free agent.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/harrington_may_stick_as_starter_HMGBNjelJyYYgv3meP5RhP#ixzz0Z2FGrgOa
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
by the way that shoe video is getting some attention by many. So embarrassing!
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/12/jarret-jack-ties-shoe-raptors-bulls-toronto-chicago.html
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/bulls-respond-to-jacks-shoe-tying—-2-days-late.html
http://www.asylum.co.uk/2009/12/07/the-bizarre-world-of-us-sport/
http://www.windycitizen.com/blogs/bullish-thoughts/2009/12/07/bulls-watch-players-tie-their-shoes-in-game-literally-also-bulls-o
http://www.sbnation.com/2009/12/7/1189315/jarrett-jack-ties-his-shoe-chicago
http://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/nba/raptors/article/735387—tying-shoe-wasn-t-an-insult-says-raptors-jack
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
seriously, as a guy who makes wise ass comments about everything,
I’m really at a loss for words with this one……
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 7, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Bulls Woes
I almost can’t take it anymore. If we do not get D Wade, LBJ, Bosh or Amare, I think I am going to have to take a step back from the Chicago Bulls for awhile. Unfortunately I see a Joe Johson in our future. People bash Gar Paxdorf for mismanagement of the team but with revenues bursting, attendance at the top of the league, and a patented string of hope keeping the die-hards in check; they are truly skilled. I think we are hitting the end of that ride though. They have made the indirect statement that they are going big this offseason, if they don’t, I gotta back away. I mean, this team hired VINNY DEL NEGRO as their coach.
Joe Johnson would be a fine complement
to Rose, Deng, Noah and Bosh.
"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith
by Granny Waiters on Dec 7, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions
Joe J.
He is a very good player, no doubt. A better defender, passer, and rebounder than BG,,,, but not a huge overall improvement. Is he the answer? I’m afraid not. Any of those other guys, however, and you start to get a lot closer.
I’ve become convinced that DWade is the only real (and best) option on the table for us. But we are making ourselves look worse by the day. I am sick of waiting on talent to develop. He is a no questions asked star. Yeah he’s old, yeah he’s a slasher, but at least we won’t be wondering anymore.
Unfortunately Erik Spoelstra looks like the 2nd coming of Pat Riley next to VDN.
If we dont get Wade.
Then Joe Johnson will be a great second option.He is VERY underrated.Hes got good size a great shooter and all around scorer plays good D as well.And will be an awesome fit with Noah and Rose since he doesn’t need the ball as much as Wade (Wade is better than Joe) But Wade does need the ball constantly and so does Rose. Although Wade could adjust to it or not I don’t know.If we don’t get Wade then I’ll be happy with Joe Johnson he is coming into his own now and becoming a superstar.But since the Hawks look real good right now I doubt that they will part ways with him.Wade could still be a possibility hometown guy but again i dont know.But personally I rather have Wade here than Lebron (can’t stand the guy) and his “crab moves”
While JJ improves the team
Would we be any better than the Hawks? I don’t think so. I suppose this is what teams in the east felt like during the Jordan era, but unless we get a real superstar, you just can’t count on your team to beat the lebrons/howards/wades. Outside the of the pistons, when was the last team to win a championship without a superstar?
by The90sBullsRevival on Dec 7, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
Joe Johnson
is top ten in scoring,averages 5 rebounds a game, nearly 5 assists per game.He has a great all round game.If we would be better than the hawks.Noah and Rose with Joe Johnson add some depth in the bench the Bulls could contend.That looks like a very dangerous team right there.Im saying IF we dont get Wade then we should go get Joe Johnson.
Wade is the better player and I would try to get him 1st, but IF we dont get him we go for Joe Johnson.
I get that you're saying a Tier 2 player is better htan getting nothing
However, if the Bulls strike out on Wade, Bron or Bosh it does get us anywhere but perhaps to the 2nd round of the playoffs. It would have to be a Tier 2 player plus great moves by our GM to get us to contend and that will not happen.
I really doubt
That Bron won’t come here (I rather have wade or bosh than him personally).Wade might stay or he might go i dont know.Bosh I know for a fact that he will leave it might be a safer bet to go after him first since people knows unless he wins a ship at Toronto of all places this year then he will leave (unless he takes the turkgolu route) Amare doesn’t seem all that great to me Bosh is better than him.
But like I said if we dont get any of those guys then go after Amare or Joe Johnson hell even Boozer if we dont get those big time guys.
Either we get some superstar or a star its not an option we can’t afford to get nothing at all or well you know what will happen.
Also we need a bench as well.If the Bulls had a nice bench now we would have won a few of those games and be over 500 since the bench and lack of big post presence in scoring is what really killing us.
joe johnson
actually has more career assists than he does rebounds. point being, he’s good at both.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
Again Not knocking Joe J
But has anyone ever seen him DOMINATE a game. We haven’t had a player who can dominate since Jordan. I see Wade, LBJ, and Amare as guys who can really dominate a game. Not so sure about Bosh and Joe J. I see Joe as another complimentary type guy who feeds off the team. I just don’t see this team going anywhere without a guy capable of dominating a game (but bosh’s position and age makes him very appealing).
I get your point but
I think Bosh is better than Amare.Amare isnt all that good on defense and rebounding hes ok at it but not as good as bosh.
But NO player has dominated games and seasons like MJ.The guys you mentioned cant dominate like him.
but what can you do?
joe johnson is just half a year older than wade. he shoots 3s and fts much better. he plays d and scores, but not like wade does. he hasn’t won a ‘ship and isn’t an anointed superstar like lebron, so he won’t get that crucial call from the refs when it’s all on the line. what options are there, unless you want to stink year after year and play the draft game? (btw, i would only agree to this if i, marionette were named gm in charge of the drafting!)
i’m coming around on bosh. he has seemed much tougher this year.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
Bosh and Lebron not coming to Chicago
Bosh is not impressed with the Bulls, especially after earlier 10-pt win over us and most recent blowout.
Any sliver of a chance of Lebron in Chicago chasing his MJ dreams are gone with the flareup with Noah.
Still hoping for Wade, sigh.
WADE 2010
I doubt a ten-second tiff with Noah would change the course of the next six years
LeBron might be a baby, but “you called me a name, I’m not playing with you ever!” is an extreme response in sandboxes.
I think the biggest reason why we won’t get LeBron/Wade/Bosh is the same reason why we couldn’t convince Tracy McGrady or Tim Thomas to play here for huge money back in 2000, or D’Antoni to coach here in 2008. Would you let Reinsdorf be your boss if you could help it?
10 years ago was a different story.
Keep up, dude.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Dec 7, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
hell no!!!
case closed, we might as well get used to being the red-headed step child in the league. Along with the nets, the clips, the “whoever is an easy team to beat up on for a win” team…its a harsh reality to face, but im accepting it. I adivse all of you to do the same. And lets hurt them in their pocket books….stop selling out the UC, stop buying the jerseys, stop every single drop of profit you give to this org for a while, lets see how they react to that.
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 7, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Tim Thomas? Did you mean Tim Duncan?
"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith
by Granny Waiters on Dec 7, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
Tim Thomas
We allegedly dangled a big contract in front of him, and he refused and bolted for Milwaukee. We settled on Ron Mercer.
I'm kind of sad
that we didn’t sign him to a big contract so we could buy him out again.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
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