Tyrus To Be Traded For Al Harrington?
[From the FanShots. And so it begins. Tough for me to get to upset with this trade idea, because as with Ben Gordon, if the Bulls know they aren't going to re-sign Thomas, at least be proactive. But it does just further emphasize how much the Org. detests talent. Just hates it. So given that they can now further pump up the untalented Taj Gibson in Thomas' absence, it's all not that surprising.
What this rumor also indicates is that the idea of building Tyrus' value for a trade deadline package (w/expirings) for a star were indeed a pipe dream. He has no value. Yay Bulls development. -ed]
Several sources believe the Bulls are agreeable to a package of Thomas and Jerome James for Knicks forward Al Harrington
about 2 years ago
Option27
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freeing up cap space would be nice....
but I like Tyrus way too much to send him to the knicks, and the last thing the bulls need is Al Harrington.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 3, 2009 9:44 PM CST reply actions
Not really freeing cap space...
Tyrus and James would both expire at the end of the year…it’s a marginal increase at best
Tyrus is a cap hold until we released him though...
And we could negotiate with Harringon to resign for far less after we get the max guy…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Harrington would create a cap hold as well.
Though not as large as Tyrus’ cap hold.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Yeah
But there’s likely less PR risk to let 29 Harrington just go after 1 year than there is to let a 23 year old freakish athlete with incredible upside who we wasted 3 years of development on for us to jerk him around every which way, only to see him leave for absolutely nothing and find his rythym next year on another team at a fairly reasonaly $7-9M/year avg salary…..
If we trade him away now and use Harrington and he helps us score a bit more, then we can say, well we did X but we got Y…saves some org face to those less in the BaB (super Bulls fan) know.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I somehow doubt the team that let its leading scorer walk for nothing...
…is overly concerned about the PR hit of letting an underperforming (in their eyes) high draft pick walk away to sign a big name free agent.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
But if we don't get that big name draft pick
That seems all great that we’ll get him in this fantasty blog land you and I love, but we might not get him and will renounce Tyrus in the process (or if the neg don’t happen right away, Tyrus will get a nice offer and we’ll be forced to let him walk, while we scramble for some one who might Tmac us.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
They won't renounce Thomas....
…until they have the max FA guy about to sign the contract. There’s no risk there.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
What if
During the process for a max FA, another team makes a play for Thomas? I mean there are plenty teams with cap space who can’t get a max guy, and a 23 yr old who’s already above avg with a top 5 athleticism….
They might get him quickly as a max guy might want to seriously think do I stay with my team for more money or go to x team for less,etc.
There are risks of losing him for nothing. Course if Salmons opted out that could be lessened…but if we’re going for a max guy we need that cap hold gone…..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
They have seven days from July 8th to counter.
The Bulls will know if they have a chance on a max guy by then. Maybe it’s only 50/50, but they’ll have an idea. And a team will have to overpay for Thomas to get him to sign that quickly, in which case the Bulls can just call him greedy. Look how many agree with them about Gordon. Like D2.0 said, I doubt they really care about losing Thomas.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I don't think they'll
have to completely overpay for him to get him that quickly….
Who knows what the Max guys will do, they could stretch their signings….I mean Wade and James are def getting a max deal barring a catastrophic injury, and Wade might be talking to us, but not in our pocket and “unsure”…I mean they don’t need to sign that early, and with talent that good, they can take their time, the 3-5 teams will take their chances, and arguably of them the Bulls have the best nucleous if they miss out and are the most typically conservative team anyway….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Great point
Plus they’ve already laid the groundwork that he’s a malcontent for years.
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
This blog is full of posts about Sam Smith in particular
Yes they have been planting the seeds for this for years. He’s lazy, he has an attitude, blah blah blah. Love the Hinrich pic btw. Classic mopey look.
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
Meh..... he looks
tired to me. He doesn’t usually mope while on the bench.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
How is that?
Harrington can score score score (can’t defend—or better yet doesn’t choose to defend) but he could give Derrick someone to pass to in or near the paint….and like THomas he’s a 3 that we can force to play some 4, but Harrington can play some 4….
This would be an ok pick, gives us the assurance of a max guy, which really is all that matters, and is much better than having THomas go for nothing at all and not having the room still for a max player if Salmons stays….
I like Thomas and think the Bulls will be silly with thinking that Taj Gibson is a successor, but so be it, this is a better option than having Thomas by Gordonized by the club, and might be great for us if it yields us a Bosh or Wade next summer…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Harrington only went on this scoring binge because he was mad that he got benched for Gallinari
and even then, its not like he’s the type of shooter that’s going to stretch the opposing teams defense (29% from beyond the arc this year….as awful as Hinrich and Salmons have been, he’s worse.)
With Salmons and Deng in the starting lineup, he doesn’t bring anything to this team that we don’t already have in some superior form. The only reason to do this is if it frees up cap space.
And honestly, do you think Vinny will hesitate to put out a Hunter/Pargo/Harrington/Taj/Brad lineup? Don’t tempt him….you know he’ll do it.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying this year...
I haven’t watched a lick of Knick bball—I hate them for one, and they totally suck for 2, but I’ve seen enough of Al for a while…
I think the only thing Al does for this team is give us another good O player who will demand an D cover and who can spread the floor to help Rose attack….that’s how this helps us out….having Noah-Thomas clogged in the middle looking for boards and Salmons and Deng best as slashers with a decent mid range game is fine, but none of that spreads the floor much because 2 are clogged int he middle at all times (since Noah and Tyrus really aren’t O players yet—Tyrus has the gifts, Noah has the smarts).
Harrington has the game…like I said elsewhere, I don’t care if Al comes in and averages crap….like 14pts or whatever….they’ll have to cover him because he can go for 25 on a night if he’s left alone, or if covered get you 10-14….but he’ll space the floor and open for Rose if he’s covered, or he’ll be left open and Rose has a 3rd O option to pass to.
We don’t have any 3 pt shooters….Al has some 3 abilities, but mostly is a PF who can space the ball away from the post, and can play some in the post (something we haven’t seen in years)….
He’s far from a favorite to trade Tyrus for normally, but we’re on the path of Gordanizing Tyrus, so why the hell not get something that can fill a need the team has, even if it’s at best a comparable player who has none of T2’s upside.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
your idea is nice in theory
but we already practice it with brad miller. he’s a better shooter, passer, and rebounder (YIKES) than Harrington, and yet teams will still opt to double derrick.
and why would they do otherwise? haven’t we lived/died (mostly died) on long two-points shots for long enough? our issue isn’t getting more low percentage shots, its getting more high percentage shots, which isn’t solved by adding Al Harrington.
We also have issues with defense and rebounding in the paint, and adding Harrington only makes that worse. I don’t see how this trade makes us any better.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
Harrington's a better scorer
Far quicker, better YIKES defender and isn’t playing like absolute shit….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
you're being swayed by his inflated numbers way too much
he’s averaging 19 points a game because he had two 40 point games, both losses in which the opposing team scored at least 128 points in regulation.
and sure he’s not playing like absolute shit yet, but I’m sure he will by the time he gets in a Bulls jersey.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Again
Because he can score 40, he needs to be defended (especially when on a team with real players at PG (Rose) SG/SF (Salmons/Deng) and C (Noah)…
I don’t care what he scores per se, if he’s defended it’s one less guy for a double team on our current only 2.5 scorers (Rose, Deng are each 1 and Salmons without a guy opening the lane is the .5).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Sad to say this
But this might just work.
Thomas is losing value in this league but not to the point where you get nothing in return.
Harringtons’ play and expiring contract might just be the best thing we can get for Tyrus.
I wonder if Walsh or D’Antoni have any interest in Hinrich as well. I mean he did start over Duhon, whom they went after hard as a free agent and maybe D’Antoni could get him to become Nash version 2.0.
Who am I kidding? Hinrich plays defense. I don’t see how it would work in D’Antoni’s system.
The hardest part to swallow though, is if this deal does go through . . . you just know Tyrus is gonna be a monster playing for Mike D’Antoni.
And why do we seemingly only like to make deals that send our players to New York?
How does this trade help us this season?
And how does it help us this Summer?
We can just decline to offer a QO to Thomas and he expires much the same way as Jerome James and Al Harrington would.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Harrington is a far better scorer than Thomas
I know the D ain’t there, but if we score more and pressure them it’ll open up the O and make our D better that way…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Wait, I thought the rationale was that Hinrich and Salmons can't score like Gordon...
…but if we D better, that’s okay. I’m cornfused.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I always was a BG supporter
I don’t get your post….I never faltered.
I am shocked how poor Kirk’s O has been, but I never was one to choose Kirk over Ben, or Deng over Ben.
Think yuo have me confused….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Oh I get it
Yeah that was the org rationale for the BG let go…
Well like the morons they are, it didnt’ work….
I actually am surprised that Kirk’s been this bad though on O this year, as it seemed as a rookie before BG he was decent on Offense, and even year 2….then it seemed he picked his times with BG, but the games where BG and Deng were out Kirk seemed to often have huge games….
Well so far this year that was just luck of the draw….I mean I get it he could be in a funk coupled with playing a SG spot when he’s a PG…but he’s still looked bad shooting…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I feel a big reason that Kirk's been playing badly is his rep around the league has gone down.
When he first shown up, he was hyped as a talented PG who could drive and dish, so guys would play him respecting his driving ability. Then came ’the ’07 season, when he was exposed as a mediocre ballhandler without much athleticism. As a result, opposing players began to play him tighter, which has caused his 3pt% to plummet.
this is an excellent post
if we move Tyrus for AL-it will be a lateral move overall on defense (this year) and a significant improvement on offense as AL can camp out beyond the arc and make you guard him. AL is also decent in the post (decent being generous but still way more polished than Tyrus) and just know th eNBA game more than anything. Something Tyrus still does not fully understand and after 3-4 years might be time to accept he will never be a complete player that gets to where he needs to be and does what he suppose to do every single trip up and down the court.
So ik think the bulls win this trade because it allows us to compete for the playoffs this year and will have a similar effect in bringing over Salmons and Miller.
If AL can get “happy” here in half a season. he may resign and MLE type deal-depending of course on who this prized free agent signing will be this summer. If its Wade or Joe Johnson (and both these guys would much rather see AL harrington on th eroster over Tyrus Thomas) then AL is a way way way better fit than Tyrus. way better.
And I dare say, a Deng, Harrington, Noah frontline would be a top 10 front line in the NBA (all things considered) for the next 3-4 years_especially if deng continues to grow as a 3 point shooter and Noah continues to improve at the rate he is improving. AL would be the 3rd best player on that frontline-and he shoots 37-44% 3pters like he has over the last 4-5 years. Al can score in a variety of ways.
He came into the league as a SF-and had classic battles with Artest in practice_well written about years ago before he became a little injury plagued-so AL is not a push over. he is not afraid of anyone in this league and I like that from any player-especially a SF-PF-or C. But being a natural 3 he rebounds much more like a SF. That’s not good. He is not a shot blocking threat-i dont like that either. But at this point in his career he is a PF that can hit 3’s around 40%. You have to love that if your guards are slashers and can get to the rim.
The other part of this trade that I like is potentially ridding ourselves of Hinrich (the contract asn cap space. I love Kirk the player. iof kirk shot the 3 like Nash then we keep him as our 3rd guard or even start him next to rose. But Kirk is not a volume scorer, shooter, nor assist guy. he is a scrappy defender. I love him for it. His defense is what has sparked us all season long. but he just doesn’t fit so long as we have rose…not ideally.
I’d be ok with Rose and salmons playing 38-40 mpg if it meant we can dump Kirks contract for AL harrington. Al could play some 3. deng or James Johnson some 2 to limit Pargo and Lindsey from ever touching the floor. and give me lindsey over pargo to spell rose.
But i still do it even if we cant dump rose.
I’d love to have sefolosha back and tied up at 3 million per season at this point to make it easier to dump Kirk and if Salmons opts out. it doesnt help scoring at all but Harrington this year and Wade or Johnson next year will take care of the scoring.
I like this shit!
The Rockets continue to offer Tracy McGrady(notes) in a trade, but that will be a difficult proposition considering he’s the highest-paid player in the league ($23.2 million) and no one has seen him play in nine months. Houston seems willing to take back a longer-term contract for McGrady, but most executives believe his high salary makes it hard to put together a package.
Kirk and Deng?
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
by SoulEater7 on Dec 3, 2009 9:51 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
i wish every1 would stop talking about mcgrady, the guys is done, forget about him
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 4, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think its about McGrady the player.
It is about McGrady the huge expiring contract.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Much like RLEC last year,
there is now TMEC.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
How does this help that?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
isnt thomas on the books for another year?
harrington is done after this year
by sin on Dec 4, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
No. Thomas is a restricted free agent.
The Bulls will offer him a “Qualifying Offer” sometime in May or June, which Thomas will accept. It can be rescinded by either side until July 23rd, and then after that only with the player’s approval.
So the Bulls will give him the qualifying offer and he will shop his services. If the Bulls can get a max free agent to sign (which will likely happen before July 23rd, but not necessarily), then they simply withdraw the QO. Thomas as an unrestricted free agent.
The problem, of course, is that if they keep Thomas, once he accepts the QO, he’s a Restricted Free Agent. With that being the case, the Bulls have 7 days to match any offer he gets from another team. So if all the other max guys sign by July 20th (for instance), the Bulls have will simply match any contract offered to Thomas unless the other team is over-paying him.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
The only way I do this trade if they agree to take on Kirk
Kirk and Tyrus for Duhon and Harrington works on the trade machine. If they trade Kirk, they are guaranteed max cap space.
Plus, Duhon knows all the best bars in Chicago and Rose did just turn 21. Party mentor???
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 3, 2009 10:06 PM CST reply actions
right this makes more sense
if were moving tyrus for cap space it should be on the insistence that kirk (or deng, id prefer kirk) goes with him. possibly salmons too since his shitty play means he might opt in
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
The Sexiest athlete in Chicago
does need a wingman that knows the terrain.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
and who isn't nearly sexy/talented enough to steal any of his thunder...
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
Sad to say it....
But that would be a better trade….I just hate Chris freaking Duhon though….
We’d be seeing more Pargo though if this trade happened….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
is this organization really this dumb?
you can simply eliminate tyrus’ cap hold by renouncing him. trading two expiring contracts for one expiring contract does not increase cap space; the only way were getting more cap space is by moving kirk or deng. This line also made me want to cry:
Nevertheless, Chicago believes it has a worthy power forward successor on the cheap in rookie Taj Gibson
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
18 points and 11 rebounds in 22 minutes (only 2 fouls) against the celtics tonight.
oh what could have been
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 3, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
He was the best player
on the court for much of the game last night. He has that Rodmanesque ability to be in the right place for rebounds and he’s much quicker than last year. At one point in the game, Wallace hit a three and gave him some trash…the next time down the floor, Blair went to the rim and dunked in his face. I would gladly trade Taj AND JJ for him, and throw in Gray, Hunter and Pargo as well. This was an error of epic proportion.
it sounds like poor reporting to me
I don’t think the Bulls are that dumb, especially about money.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 3, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
woj is one of the best out there
it does seem odd though that he and/or the bulls wouldn’t know about the simple possibility of renouncing tyrus
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
It makes sense for this season at least they get three point shooting.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
harrington is no better than the 3 point shooters we already have
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 3, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
check his career numbers.
He’s really close to Salmons and Hinrich.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
well he did say "no better" than the ones we have
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
well he actually shoots threes, unlike our other players
but he’s only 35% for his career, so i’ll agree that he isn’t particularly good at.
by the way i firmly believe deng could be a 35% 3 pt shooter if he would just freaking shoot some more of them. i realize you probably shouldn’t want a guy like that jacking up 3’s, but christ this team at least needs the threat of someone shooting 3s
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
I agree
Pargo having his once a month game is not enough of a threat imo…
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
he around 40% over th elast 4 years
and was 44% 2 years ago/
not quite exactly
’04-05 16-74 = 21.6% (ATL)
’05-06 66-191 = 34.6% (ATL)
’06-07 127-293 = 43.3% (IND/GSW)
’07-08 153-408 = 37.5% (GSW)
’08-09 172-470 = 36.5% (GSW/NYK)
’09-10 33-105 = 31.4% (NYK)
he had a great year in ‘06-07 for nelson, but coach soured on him in the playoffs ("I can’t play him") vs DAL and UTA (?). if the rest of those numbers look like a guy you want taking 5+ threes a game here, knowing they won’t be as open “good looks” as if nelson or d’antoni were coach….
remember, all these guys’ numbers look better under d’antoni. larry hughes shot 39% last year (that’s better than harrington!)
i agree with you about thabo. that he has value and would look good here right now with the injury to tyrus, more so than taj who ironically is/would be tyrus’ backup.
why not just say you hate tyrus and would be happier with him gone, even if it means a trade for p.o.s. al harrington?
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
yea tell you the truth i dont mind harringtons fit on this team
i just dont see the point in swapping expiring contracts. we’re quickly learning that this year’s team is pretty irrelevant long term, so i’d hate to see tyrus— who could be viewed as an attractive asset beyond his potentially expiring contract— just swapped out. that duhon/harrington for kirk/tyrus trade you proposed makes more sense, but i highly doubt the knicks are taking on any salary past this season
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
Well there's also this
As Thomas has rehabbed a broken forearm, the Bulls have had discussions with several teams
Maybe we shouldn’t put all our eggs in the NY basket
I'd shed as much cap space as humanly possible.
That means Kirk and Deng.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
at the very least kirk
he’s an expensive luxury; a piece that would be nice to have at that price if we were a contender. we’re not, and if we’re serious about this 2010 plan he should be shopped for cap space
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
Both of them
struggle at hitting wide open jumpers
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 4, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
Either way, with that being said
There should be no rush to ship him out this soon.
I mean, see how he plays after the arm heals and then see all the other possibilities that arise around deadline time.
You know some of those big names we love so much, could be floating around then.
Or some teams with higher expectations that are losing could be wanting to shed salary by then as well.
I think the most hated part of all this is that they’re not willing to wait
good point
im an unabashed tyrus fan, but i can see the writing on the wall that he probably won’t be here past this season, so at this point i’d just like to see him at least shipped out in some capacity that helps us long term
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
hmmm...
That’s actually far more justified than booing Gordon. Tyrus has definitely not lived up to his potential, nor always gave it his all. There were other factors impeding him, but I’d sort of get it.
It also emphasizes how unlikely it was that Tyrus was going get paid. Gordon did everything except kiss the ring, and he couldn’t get his money. ’Dorf likely has far more reasons not to retain Ty.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
i guess i don't fully understand the booing psychology
i’d only boo:
1) a guy who totally dogs it or doesn’t have a clue
2) a douche or villain (like Kg or Rondo)
3) a bad officiating call
4) VDN
It is a different situation.
If Tyrus gets traded, he had no choice but to leave the team…that other guy left for more money.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
tyrus has sucked sooo bad he aint even worth booing.
i applauded duhon (for hsi effort and desire to play withing the team concept to win). booed Gordon (only because he could have worked out a deal at some point by just accepting 1 (or so) million less. like a 10% decrease to stay.
thank you for outing yourself
as a meatball.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 7, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
I hate this idea...
But if they traded him to NY, they could renounce Harrington and re-sign Tyrus in the offseason.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
huh?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Is this difficult for you to follow?
Or are you just being an ass?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
I don't understand how this makes it possible for "the[m]" to re-sign...
…Thomas. They’re in a better position now.
Well, for one, who is they?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
huh?
But if they traded him to NY
Tyrus Thomas is with the Bulls. If he’s traded to NY the “they” would be the Bulls.
Good morning too. Maybe I’m catching you too before coffee.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Okay, so how does this make any sense?
The Bulls don’t value Tyrus Thomas. They are going to trade him away for a slightly better offense this year and probably a worse overall team. But Thomas is moody, selfish, never runs the court, doesn’t respect his elders and is mean to the media.. which makes it hard to sell the product of the Bulls.
Further, why would Thomas ever come back to the Bulls. I see no plausible scenario that once Thomas goes to NYK (or anywhere esle) that he ever comes back to the Bulls.
So, if the Bulls trade Thomas to the Knicks, the Bulls could renounce Harrington in the off-season, strike out on max free agents and about 30 others after that, and then re-sign Tyrus Thomas to the Bulls.
Yeah, I’ve seen how that’s technically possible from the beginning, but does anyone actually think there is any realistic possibility this happens?
Maybe that’s you who think it’s possible, which wouldn’t surprise me, of course. And maybe D2.0 does, too, which also wouldn’t surprise me.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Dec 4, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As much as Tyger is a douche...
His assessment is probably right…I was grasping at a pipe dream that the Bulls would actually want Tyrus back and that he would want to return to the team…if they trade him to NY, chances are slim that he returns to Chicago….
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
I mean, it's possible, I just don't see it as likely.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Not a difficult concept to grasp...
In order for the Bulls to have max cap space this summer, they would have to renounce their rights to Tyrus Thomas, meaning he would not be a Bull next season…
If the Bulls trade Tyrus to NY, they would have the opportunity to sign him in the Summer, since they would not have to renounce his rights, but the rights to Harrington, to get max space below the cap.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
although remember
as currently constructed, we will probably need both to renounce tyrus and for salmons to opt out.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
See my sig.
I am aware of who needs to go…
Which is why I would prefer to sign and trade for the free agent rather than renouncing rights to players and MLE and LLE…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
It really wouldn't change any chances the team has to resign Tyrus
If they trade him away, they’d have to use free cap space to sign him in the summer. If they’re going to use the cap space to sign him, they may as well just keep him, then if they somehow work out a sign and trade without renouncing his rights, they could actually resign him.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
It actually drastically reduces their chances to re-sign Thomas.
Remember, they won’t renounce his rights until they have a max FA with a pen in his hand and a contract in front of him. Up until that point, they can match any other bidder under the rules of the RFA. If they trade Thomas, he has to WANT to come back to the Bulls. Plus, since they don’t have the RFA rights, they’d have to overpay to get him away from his drafting team, just like anyone else.
It’s stupid, stupid idea, but considering the two supporting it, I hsouldn’t be surprised.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
But they wouldn't have his bird rights.
Scenarios:
1) Bulls keep Thomas, get max FA – renounce Thomas, can’t sign him
2) Bulls keep Thomas, miss max FA – re-sign Thomas – can offer him more than any other team and match any other using RFA rules. Bulls can keep Thomas even if he wants to leave.
3) Bulls trade Thomas, re-sign Thomas only if they have enough cap space. Thomas has to choose to come to the Bulls.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
It's probably easier for their marketing
To trade Tyrus for Harrington, a right now trade that might slightly benefit our team (because of the scoring need), then to “renounce” Tyrus at the end of the year and see him blow up elsewhere…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Yeah same here
I do believe that if they are trading for expiring contracts, there are probably unknown factors that aren’t completely being reported.
Calogero is right, they’ll save just as much if they just let him go . . . I think
which word catches your eye more there?
cheap? or worthy?
by sin on Dec 3, 2009 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I almost wish that the Bulls would. . .
. . .throw in the idea of including James Johnson, for Jordan Hill (it works out as TT/JaJ/JeJ to NYK – AH/JH to CHI in ESPN’s Trade Machine). Jordan Hill projects to be a hell of a lot better than Taj Gibson will ever be. . .
well...
we were going to trade thomas and james for boozer which serves the same purpose of an upgrade at PF for the rest of this season. I would love this trade for Al Harrington. Think of the pick and pop with rose and harrington…..
As far as some of the discussion above about trading Hinrich or deng….have u seen the past few games without hinrich and Deng is our best overall player right now. I do agree with trading hinrich in the offseason or trade deadline if the bulls are out of the playoffs.
problem with trading kirk in the offseason
is you can’t get back cap space for this summer for him then. as for the boozer deal, that had the added bonus that we’d get boozer’s bird rights, so we could decide to re-up him and then pair him with another free agent signing for a pretty decent team for next year and going forward. there’s no chance of us re signing harrington.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
by Calogero on Dec 3, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LeBron won't be coming to Chicago anyway...
It’s a pipe dream IMO.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
20x better
But I’m sure Chicago’s tried there….the Jazz might not have the interest, seeing that they have AK47 for so much dough and Millsap, and Williams….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I'd do that Boozer deal in a heartbeat
if this Thomas to the Knicks garbage is actually real.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Anyone have a feeling JJ is a trade filler some where down the line?
Why isn’t he playing? Or maybe Taj is being showcased? Ha ha riiiight.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
see that's another reason JJ should be playing
maybe he shows something and other teams will think he has some value. as of now they can demand peanuts for him since we never freaking play him.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
Or more likely from the time I've seen
He looks worse and loses value. JJ is fine to develop, but he’s not ready to be an NBA player just yet from the minutes I’ve seen. I surprised he’s not int eh NBADL.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I might cry if Tyrus goes to D'Antoni's system
If there’s one place where Tyrus could really explode, it’s there. Then again, that might shed light on the Bulls inability to develop him. Still, bad trade.
yEAH
Tyrus and BG were the reasons I was so high on the D’Antoni possibility a few years back….
Could you imagine if he came here and had BG, Tyrus, and the ridiculous athleticism of Rose, not to mention crafty Noah and Deng….
Man D’Antoni was such a perfect fit for us….fing JR….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
It's all over Twitter now too
I guess the wheels maybe in motion?
But they just are all reporting Woj’s story
tyrus doesnt seem too concerned
im the bars on yo cell. I’m the fire down n hell. I’m the ice cream bell. I’m the gas u pump at shell Master P. aka The IceCream Man!! Lol
http://twitter.com/therealtythomas
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
waitaminit
people still listen to Master P?
by brianm on Dec 4, 2009 4:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
of course he wouldn't be
hell, he’s probably praying for it to happen. if he goes into D’antoni’s system he is putting up 20/10 guaranteed, and he is getting paid this summer.
that’s huge, IMO, for him
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
20/10 guaranteed?
I don’t know about that.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
What about double double?
I think D’Antoni’s pace and the number of shots the Knicks get up makes it a near guarantee.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
He could average a double double in Chicago...
I just don’t see him consistently scoring 20 a night anywhere. At least not for a couple years. Sure he’s more than capable of scoring 20 (sometimes 25), but he’s just as likely to score 8. That’s the love/hate relationship we have had with him now for years.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
he'd certainly need to finish better (especially after contact)
I don’t know if that can be improved.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Well whaddya know
the Bulls front office are trying to figure out ways to save more money. I’m starting to think summer 2010 is just a shtick, just an excuse for them being cheap.
"You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless! You gotta hope even more, and cover your ears and go 'bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!'"
You may be on to something there!
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
this sucks
we couldnt even get a competent coaching staff to develop or motivate tyrus. D’antoni will surely turn him into a monster. If they trade Tyrus, the bulls will be even duller to watch.. Damn. this sucks.
Its an unknown
Just like the first time we tried it.. I would rather keep TT somehow. You keep young talent, especially young talent with a ceiling. The bulls org just sucks at developing players, as we all know.
by aznlildelfin on Dec 3, 2009 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
lol oh
Sorry cant really tell sarcasm on the internet.
by aznlildelfin on Dec 3, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
hmm a big man who can shoot
who thinks vinny is playing him over noah in crunchtime minutes at the center?
on the other hand…this means taj will never start another game.. hmmmm
I hope you don't believe the Bulls are keeping Harrington after this season if they make this trade
As mentioned above, apparently the Bulls think Taj is good enough to take over the spot if it’s their for him to take
i meant taj wont start for this season at least.
therse no way vinny would turn down a chance to play with a new toy
Well I emailed our dear friend Sam Smith
I asked him if he’s heard any truth to this story and how it saves the Bulls cap space
Sam’s reply . . .
Because contracts they’d give up exceed harrington’s total. it’s the space for this season, i’d assume
but i haven’t heard it and it sure would make the bulls small up front with Harrington really a three
The funny thing I took outta his reply is that usually he downplays any rumor with certainty
He doesn’t mention that “it’s not true”
I would hope it would be a deal to set up another deal
i.e. it frees up some room this year to take back salary to get rid of kirk.
Still, shitty trade.
I guess that makes sense.
They’re going to lose Thomas anyway, so who cares if they miss out on his potential. Get a middling guard. Mer.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Sam needs to catch up with the modern NBA
small up front with Harrington really a three
Harrington’s been a 4 much of his career and isn’t that different from many others at the 4. Plus, Harrington has 25 pounds on Tyrus.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
and yet Tyrus still easily outrebounds him.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
That's a function of many things though...
To be fair Harrington plays further out…. Oh, and Tyrus is a better rebounder :)
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I think that rebounding wouldn't be a big problem since we have Noah and Deng, who both rebound well
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
26th in defensive rebounding % this season.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
And TT is way better than both of them
that’s why you keep him, let Harrington rot in NY and put Taj on the bench where he belongs or ship his ass in some deal.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I prefer Tyrus too, the thing is
I don’t want to see the Bulls make the same mistake again. They already lost BG for nothing, at least try to get something in return for TT. Like I said down low, If we could include Hinrich in the deal and get Duhon and Chandler wouldn’t be so bad
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Yeah, deal as structured is worthless.
Better offense than Thomas, less defense, though. Maybe an overall worse production, maybe even or slightly better. But in the end, it simply ensures they get nothing for Thomas, instead of only the probability that they do.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
that implies Harrington replaces Tyrus' minutes
VDN was likely going to bench Tyrus significantly anyway. I don’t think he’d do so with Harrington, so he’d be replacing Tyrus+Taj+Deng at PF, etc. It could be a slight upgrade.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
But will he bench Harrington
For our best on the ball and off the ball defender (Taj)…
I watched part of the first half again yesterday cuz I was exhausted after a terrible so far work week-been better today—but I had to turn it off after I heard that.
I watched the game the night before, but it was so boring that I was fast forwarding through some of it, more than normal.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
How are we getting something in return?
The only deal the Knicks will make are ones that (1) allow them to increase cap space for the 2010 bonanza or (2) take back a player who fits with any desirable FA they could get. TT will allow them to do both b/c they don’t have to resign him for 2010. But if he works out and say they get LBJ, but not a second FA like Amare or Bosh, they could resign TT for cheaper than what it would take to get either of those two.
Doesn’t that sound like something we should be doing?
As for us….there is NO WAY in hell we’re resigning Harrington this offseason, so this is strictly a salary dump. PLUS, Harrington is a bigger version of Fish AND needs stats to get paid this summer.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Dec 4, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Say we sign nobody big
What are the chances Harrington’s coming back?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Why would you want to bring him back?
- He’s 29 yrs old (so its downhill from here)
- He’s a ball stopper (his AST% is currently 8.4 in a D’Antoni offense, so you know its going lower in a VDN offense)
- He’s an avg to below avg defender at best.
What is there to like about him?
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Who runs the Bulls?
They signed Hunter and Pargo for crying out loud.
I don’t think they bring back Harrington, but this management group doesn’t surprise me anymore.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
I'm with you on the incompetence of our management...
But they signed Hunter and Pargo on the cheap. Harrington can fetch a much higher salary on the open market, so they’d have to actually want to pay him to keep him and knowing they won’t want to pay him is actually comforting.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
He is versatile
He can score in the post a bit (something we have absolutely NONE of), and he can hit some 3’s to keept he defenses honest around him, and that will open more of the lane for us to see Derrick do his thing.
I mean he’s a 35% 3 pt shooter, twice been in the 20+ pt range…at the 4 spot that ain’t bad to have….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
You're kidding me right?
I mean he’s a 35% 3 pt shooter, twice been in the 20+ pt range…at the 4 spot that ain’t bad to have
That is the kind of thinking that got Isiah in trouble with how he assembled his NY teams.
Harrington has only been a supposed 20+ pt range player as the beneficiary of playing in D’Antoni’s faster paced offense. We are not a fast paced team, in part because we aren’t a great defensive rebounding team and don’t generate a lot of turnovers. Harrington only makes us worse in those departments.
If we get a scorer, he must be able to do so in a half court set, playing off a Rose. Harrington is a ball stopper in the “Fish” sense. I’m sure he’d give us more offense than we’re currently getting from Taj, but I don’t think he’s net plus over TT. Since we’re not signing either in the off season, you might as well keep TT in the hopes of a better package later on.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
he did it fine in Indiana before that
And was fine before he got in Nellie’s (I have too many of the same freaking player) doghouse….
Harrington’s a ball stopper, fine wahtever, but he hasn’t shot the ball FGA wise nearly as much as you’d think.
I don’t care if we pass to him and he shoots…that’s good and fine, what I like is that he demands a cover which opens up Rose more….
And we can throw to yet another guy who can score if we need scoring.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Yes he does shoot as much as I think
On a per 36 minute basis, he shoots more than anyone on our team (I know, I know…the Knicks play a faster pace).
We’ve been looking at this from the Bulls perspective, but let’s take a step back and consider the Knicks. Harrington is currently their leading scorer right? They already have David Lee (PER 21.4) no? They play a style that you’d think would best optimize Harrington’s skill set n’est pas? Ask yourself why they’d trade Harrington for TT? I’m curious to see your answer.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!!!!
HARRINGTON IS A BLACK HOLE!!!!!
We already have one our team, and he’ll just take more possessions away from Derrick Rose. On top of that…the Bulls won’t resign him this summer (the Knicks weren’t going to either). However, Harrington is unrestricted and free to go wherever he wants where as the Knicks now have options. If the price isn’t right on David Lee, they can replace him with TT. If the price is right on David Lee, they can trade TT for better pieces to surround the FA they get.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
i know man
only “good” i foresee with harrington is a return to the draft lottery.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
Um
Because they are less in pos to get a James, etc than they’ve marketed because of the whole Curry and that guy from Washington they overpaid for…
Tyrus has gobs of upside and is a real defender right now, something they sorely lack.
Tyrus’s athleticism, ball handling, passing, shooting raw skills—but mostly athleticism and 23 yr old age are a perfect attraction for D’Antoni’s system.
And I’d argue Thomas is already a better player (but might not fit us as much as we’d like for his last year given that we need more scoring)…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Hunh?
The only way we’d have more space (slightly) than the Knicks is if Fish ops out. If that doesn’t happen (and it won’t judging by Fish’s play this season), the Knicks will actually have more space.
You think we’re getting more scoring and technically we are courtesy of Harrington’s production over Taj. I say we’re getting a ball hog whose eFG will drop once he departs the friendly confines of D’Antoni’s system and enters are putrid VDN system.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Knicks have $27M tied to 7 guys
They need 13…
They get James for the max, what is that $14-15M year 1? I don’t know these as well…
They’re at $41-42M. They have $10M for 5 guys…all veteran minimums and then they max the cap?
So let’s say they get James (unlikely) he’ll play next to:
Douglas/Likely their draft pick PG
Gallinari (out of position)/ Chandler (out of Pos)
James
Hill/Jeffries
Curry….
I don’t think they’re getting anyone….in James caliber….they have the total dollars sure, but they don’t have the talent that’ll induce a James or Wade to come (or Bosh likely)…because it’ll be a couple years of the lottery….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
That is why I wanted him instead of Ben Wallace...
He would have been a good fit next to Chandler…and he is still a pretty good fit next to Noah. And, as a likely side benefit, it puts Taj back on the bench where he belongs.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
I don't know if I'd like him as much if we had BG still
Because we don’t need to spread the floor as much with BG on the court (BG can do it) and Harrington’s not good enough in the post to be enough help for us to offset his defense….I’d MUCH rather have Tyrus in that scenario (well I would rather have Tyrus now anyway) but I think Harrington seems to fit our need more, that’s all….
And both are likely out the door….though we might be able to keep Harrington on the somewhat cheap if we get a max guy, so long as he likes the system and shows he’s viable for it.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I think I mentioned Wilson Chandler as well
Chandler intrigues me and I think he could be useful if the Bulls decide to trade Deng or (better) Fish. Even with TT and Hinrich, IMO there’s no way a FA would want to go there and play with those guys instead of playing with Rose and Noah. Between Hinrich-TT and Rose-Noah, I would choose Rose-Noah in a second…
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
The deal I thought about works on the trade machine
Knicks get: JJ, Hinrich TT
Bulls get: Harrington, Duhon and Chandler
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
That's not going to happen
The Knicks are not goint to take on Kirk’s salary unless or until they have first secured a desire FA, so that kind of in season trade is just a pipe dream.
Any trade with the Knicks where they’d take on salary beyond this year would have to involve Rose or Noah and that aint going to happen.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
exactly.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
With Hinrich, they could be more attractive to a FA
Do you see anyone wanting to go to New York with the roster they have now?
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Yes....b/c D'Antoni trumps everything we have except maybe Rose
They don’t need to take on Kirk’s contract….that’s our burden and no one is going to relieve us of it until it becomes an expiring contract or unless some contender is willing to part with an expiring contract in return for a championship push.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
are you kidding me?
Hinrich?
what attracts FAs, first, is cap space. acquiring Hinrich hurts that for NY.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
I think the players also attracts FA.
LeBron will never win a ring with the roster the Knicks have
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Kirk Hinrich?
Kurt?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
No, he doesn't change that
He’s just better than Duhon or Nate. But they problaby won’t be in NY after this season… So… yeah, fuck I want to get rid of Hinrich contract so much
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
by bull83 on Dec 4, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
we all do…we all do.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
If they can get a few more million in room, yes.
or if Salmons doesn’t opt out, because, you know, the Bulls won’t have max player cap space.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I don't get your point
You’re advocating for players on the Knicks, but then are saying FAs would prefer to play here if we got their players.
If that’s the case, isn’t NY already a preferred destination if they just stand pat and wait for the offseason?
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Maybe I didn't express myself well
Let me try to explain myself again. I just think that sending Hinrich to the Knicks and getting Duhon and Chandler in return wouldn’t turn this Harrington-TT/JJ deal look so bad for us. 1 – because we would be saving money with Duhon contract (increasing our chances of getting a FA in 2010); 2- would be getting a nice player in Chandler
Just that. I never said that the players we would be getting are better than the ones we would be sending (except JJ, of course) to New York. I just said that, with Harrington, our rebound could improve a little bit since Taj is worst than Harrington
Playing Rose, Salmons, Deng, Harrington and Noah could be better than Rose, Salmons, Deng, TAJ and Noah
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Ok...I understand your point now, but its not going to happen
Stop including Kirk in trades with the Knicks. Since Walsh has come on board, they haven’t taken on any salary that goes past 2010. In fact, they’ve done the exact opposite….every trade has been to shed longer term contracts for shorter ones that expire this year.
There is no way they’re going to take Kirk without already having important pieces in place. Having D’Antoni as a coach is a good enough sell. They don’t need Kirk to entice anyone nor would anyone be enticed by Kirk’s presence on the team.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
he's pretty much saying
that no matter what players the Knicks have next year, they wouldn’t be as attractive to play with as Deng/Noah.
They have some solid bit pieces, but they don’t really have any cornerstones to build off of, and TT/Hinrich/JJ wouldn’t change that.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
In fairness that's without Tyrus or Harrington...
You gotta think that number will improve no matter what.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
That is true, but in the last few games Noah has been getting pushed around too...
Hell, even Jason Kidd rebounds well, but nobody is scared to bring it the lane with him standing there. Tyrus gives us way more presence down low than Harrington and definitely Deng. And I don’t just mean shot blocking or rebounding, I’m talking about shot adjusting which leads to more rebounds for everyone.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Al Harrington is Tim Thomas v2.
Maybe we can buy him out?
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
This is speculation and everything but a forward rotation of Deng, Johnson and Harrington
would be one of versatility and size. The three are practically interchangable and I think all would fit with Rose.
Not one true center among them though...
Although Noah can obviously rebound anyway.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 2:38 AM CST up reply actions
Why would there be a center...
In a Forward rotation?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Misread it. Thought it said front line...
2:38am in the morning you see.
Anyway, we still are thin at center IMO. Harrington can’t really play the 5, and Miller has proven that we are lucky if he decides to even jog anymore… Not that Tyrus could play the 5 either… I’m delirious and our team is in a shambles.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
The NBA Center is a dying breed in the NBA so Noah can take most of the minutes
at Center and a body that can rebound can be used off of the bench…..no not Aaron Gray. Gortat is complaining about playing behind Howard maybe we can get him….but wait his contract is an issue isn’t it.
Gortat would play more minutes BEHIND noah unless he wants to start.
I forgot abou Asik... maybe they are planning on bringing in Asik and he would
be a cheap back up for Noah as I am sure this is Millers last year with the Bulls he is on fumes.
You really need to spend time on the Knicks blog (Knickerblogger.net)
If you think Fish is a black hole, wait until we get Harrington. Btw….since his contract is up, you know he needs stats for another pay day.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
'ball movement' was a lie. 'better defense' was a lie.
just spin to grease Gordon out of town. VDN could use another player he doesn’t need to coach, and Harrington fits that bill.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
I'm going to throw up if they make this trade.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Can we get boozer to bite
hey utah we might pull a deal with new york, you dont want to be left out do you
??
utah-oh shi…..hey hey how about we give you boozer korver and that jackass center who does nothing for tyrus salmons and that moron center of yours that doesnt do anything….
Sold to the team jordan never let win
russell-Jordan aint nothin, im training right now, i could guard him then and ill guard him now..where he at??meanwhile somewhere in springfield:
Mr Burn err i mean Mr Reinsdorf, i have good news
What is it paxson
You just saved a bunch of money by switching to boozer
(evil grin) excellent…..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I just checked the knicks blog
they say harrington is a black hole and most are happy to get rid of him. Can you imagine him and salmons playing together?
Sorry I missed this.....I said the same thing in another reply
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Why did we ever trade Larry Hughes?
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
The Bulls get a scorer in Harrington, the Knicks get one of the leagues most talented young players
This appears good for both teams.
This seems pretty likely to me.
1. We were supposedly about to trade Kirk for Harrington last year. Hell, back to 2003 we’ve supposedly had a hard-on for Al Harrington.
2. The Bulls need scoring help. I consider this trade roughly a push on the court, but since Harrington would be beloved and choses, and Tyrus is not, they’ll actually play him.
3. As per Bulls form, it’s trading a younger guy for an older guy, getting a short-term upgrade, and ignoring the more pressing issue that the Bulls likely won’t have max cap space anyway unless we move Salmons or Hinrich.
I’d really like to pursue a deal with Houston to get McGrady and unload some salary for this summer, and I don’t know if it can be done if we ship James’ contract off to the Knicks.
ugh, hate this.
the knicks are the dump ground for bulls i don’t like, not ones i actually do. :P
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Can we get Taj Gibson in this deal?
I don’t want to wait for him to “develop”. I don’t want Vinny to be able to play him.
Could we include Taj and ask for Wilson Chandler back?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
KC echoes AWoj
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/bulls-engaged-in-thomas-talks.html
Furthermore, the emergence of rookie Taj Gibson as at least a viable rotation player has allowed the Bulls to consider shopping Thomas, the league source said.
Cheap and worthy sound better to me.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
how do people think he's viable?
the road trip, to me, proved how NOT viable he is.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Right
If he can rebound he cannot stay on the floor long enough to secure them due to foul trouble. But even controlling for his foul tendency his rebounding percentages are horrible in all areas except OREB% where Noah is among the league leaders and still is dominant on the DREB glass as well.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
traditionally,
guys with terrible hands aren’t viable nba players.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
Taj
is Duhon all over, Taj is better in smaller sample size, like 10MPG, this guy has Grant Long and Joe Smith written all over him if he develops
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 4, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
He's not a viable rotation player! He only belongs on the court for maybe 10 minutes a night
… maybe.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Doug
Seriously, someone tell me what there is to like about Taj Gibson’s play. It’s like someone wrote in the media guide that he’s a good defender and rebounder, and thus it became written into lore never to be questioned again.
He’s right. Lazy commentators will be parroting this Taj defensive nonsense for as long as he’s in the league. It’s pretty amazing how it work, like how ‘Ben Gordon is better off the bench’ became truthiness.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he came in with the Pac 10 DPoY thing and the commentator parrots
just looked at that, assumed he was good at defense, saw him block a couple shots, and voila, he’s somehow this awesome defender.
Except, you know, when he gets murdered on the defensive glass and gets backed down and buried in the post because he’s a stick figure.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Peer review the shit out of the commentators then
When they’re wrong it should be pointed out over and over until they incorporate accurate data into their assessments.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Letter to comcast about Neil Funk?
I dunno, we’re doing all we can shouting into the black hole of BaB.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i know u were at the game
but these words came out of stacey’s mouth…
taj is probably their best defender right now… its as if tyrus, kirk, hell even pargo didnt exist
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
Wow, just wow.
I’m still enjoying my favorite sport of football, but hearing this on the radio made me think, how does this make any sense?
I know, I know. Tyrus, James, and Al are expiring contracts.
But Tyrus at least has value as a trade chip in a sign and trade because of his youth, athleticism and ‘potential’. I can’t say that Al has near the value of Tyrus in a sign & trade scenario.
Do these steps not make sense…
1.) Renounce James, sign & trade Tyrus w/ Kirk or Deng… for Bosh (just throwing out a name…)
2.) Sign Wade (again, throwing out a name) since Miller, Pargo, Hunter, Gray expire as well.
3.) Fill in the roster with whatever else around Rose, Wade, Bosh, Noah…..
Again, I didn’t evaluate this thoroughly with the numbers just yet, but my point is, trying to sign & trade Al in the place of Tyrus nets you much less in return.
This trade idea sucks...
I liked Al Harrington when we could have signed him in the summer of Wallace and preferred him to Wallace, but I do not want to trade the potential of a #4 overall pick who has had his minutes jerked around by suck great minds as B***** and Del Coacho…I want Tyrus to return and play 35 minutes a night for the rest of the season (or until the deadline if he gets moved) so we can evaluate his talent more appropriately.
Now, the article does say that the Rockets will entertain long term contracts for TMac…those possibilities are intriguing.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
The trade is not good
Tyrus is a much better defender (especially on help defense) and re bounder when Al is on offensively he looks good but most of the time he takes terrible shots much like larry hughes who we sent to New York. So now we are going to have two blackholes on our team Al and Salmons at the expense of Rose and Deng. I don’t think that makes sense, lets see how Tyrus does when he comes back from the injury cause we all saw how Taj was doing and it was not pretty.
I put this on the front page
And so it begins. Tough for me to get to upset with this trade idea, because as with Ben Gordon, if the Bulls know they aren’t going to re-sign Thomas, at least be proactive. But it does just further emphasize how much the Org. detests talent. Just hates it. So given that they can now further pump up the untalented Taj Gibson in Thomas’ absence, it’s all not that surprising.
What this rumor also indicates is that the idea of building Tyrus’ value for a trade deadline package (w/expirings) for a star were indeed a pipe dream. He has no value. Yay Bulls development.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:18 AM CST reply actions
If I am a Knicks fan
this trade thrills me. Put Tyrus in the D’Antoni system and his numbers will immediately go up if he plays. He’ll play though because he’s good and D’Antoni knows good from bad.
If they get Tyrus they end up adding to his value in a sign and trade deal over the Summer or they seriously flirt with the idea of resigning him.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
yup
yet another reason we should’ve hired D’Antoni. We’d have so many assets it’d be ridiculous.
Instead we have Taj.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe Tyrus Thomas is our Van Wilder
so once we part with him “The Rise of Taj” can begin.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
But it was cheap and worthy
It actually went to theaters and everything.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
But at least Harrington fits a need on our team that we severely lack (some scoring).
Tyrus helps the defense far more and could be a scorer in Harrington’s mold in a year or two more, but the Bulls already signed off on him….
With Noah and Deng as active defensively as they’ve been (heck even the Fish has some good D moments, as does Kirk of course) we can stomach a downgrade defensively if our O improves a bit, especially in the 4 spot….
Harrington will demand a cover and can stretch that cover out. Deng demands a cover with his great 15 foot jump shooting, the Fish can get hot and is getting his feet back, all those guys open things up for Rose (Especially having 1 more of ’Em).
Of course I’d much rather have Tyrus (but if I was the Bulls brass I would have forced the coaches hand to play the kid, who in his rookie year proved he could play, but was still jerked around for “missing assignments”. So what, he came in with more tools on both ends than Chandler/Curry showed us…..and we just did nothing but jerk him around more nad more…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Basically this cements that Tyrus has no real value
we were thinking he could be a centerpiece for an Amare deal last February, and it was actually somewhat plausible (and people were actually against it!).
But our coach is VDN, who depresses value of his players (and spirit of the fandom), and benching Tyrus in the offseason, pulling him in 4th quarters earlier this year, and pumping up the great Taj.
By contrast, Mike D’Antoni plays crappy Al Harrington a ton and he has value again.
This trade can help the team, Harrington is a better scorer and VDN would actually play him. And I’m guessing the Bulls are looking for ways to reduce this year’s payroll (the 2010 impact is negligible) to allow them to acquire more depth later in the year.
But it just proves that the Bulls don’t value Tyrus, and the rest of the league doesn’t either. Massive failure from the Bulls, but it was 4 years in the making.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:22 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
*benching Tyrus in the playoffs
not offseason. Though he would’ve if he could’ve.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I used to think Bull's management was just not very good, but now I think they have to be one of the worst in the league
This is exactly the type of stupid trade they would make. Trading Tyrus for a worse player (oooh…Al can score cause he chucks it….wow) for no useful purpose.
The Bulls criminally mismanage assets. (Tyrus, Ben,…)
They have no apparent long-term plan. (Won’t they be shocked they don’t have max money in 2010)
They are bad at talent evaluation (Taj is a viable starter!!)
Watching Blair on SA, seeing VDN coaching the Taj, watching Hunter in the Bulls rotation…this is just ridiculous.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Harrington's a 45% shooter....
He’s not some 40% jack em—jack up 22 shots and have 9 more FTA up AI clone….he’s decent offensively…..
Defensively not so much….but he has some tools there, just not the effort.
Still our D would be better with a marginal defender in the 4 spot if we had more O…and with our versatile, athletic team, we should be an O squad anyway….run and gun.
I hate seeing Tyrus go. I view him as #2 behind Rose for upside, etc, but T2’s been shopped for over a year now and the recent benching him for Taj B.S. is like Duhon over Gordon 2.0….
At least this time we’ll get someone who can come in, have a lesser cap hold, and who might fit what we need more.
I mean Tyrus might take that next step offensively soon….but then again he also might still have the Harlem Globetrotter moments when the game matters….
Tyrus will be a star in this league though, but you just knew after last year that he wasn’t going to be that here…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
that's quite a tale you weave...
By contrast, Mike D’Antoni plays crappy Al Harrington a ton and he has value again.
I’m Pretty sure Harrington was a proven scorer with 3 other teams before he played a minute for D’Antoni.
well, he was traded for dunleavy and murphy when both were thought to be massively overpaid,
then he was traded for jamal crawford, a guy who himself was traded for speedy claxtons remains and acie law iv. id say harrington has an awfully low perceived value across the league.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Another one of my favorite guys shipped out the door for a crummy veteran?
My Bulls’ fandom continues to hang by a thread. Really Noah and Rose are the only things keeping me interested, and even they can only go so far.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:28 AM CST reply actions
They're going to get rid of their best offensive player and best defensive player....
…for virtually nothing, in back-to-back years. it’s ridiculous.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
The Bulls hate talent. Just can't stand it.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
DETEST it.
it repulses them.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
When someone is talented it's hard to tell if they are hustling
They might be good just because the game comes easy to them. They might not be trying hard, which is unacceptable.
With non-talented players, you can see the hustle.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
true. You can see it on their pale, pale faces.
ok, that’s too far. Because to be fair, the Org. also probably LOVES seein Taj whine every time he gets the ‘unfair’ (per Sam Smith) defensive 3-seconds call every game. YOU CAN TELL HE CARES!!!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
it's also kind of dumb to talk about a great player hustling
when lebron runs the length of the court and stuffs a fast break layup into the 5th row, what stands out more, the athleticism or the hustle? great players hustle too; talking about hustle is really just an announcer crutch to lean on when they can’t really identify anything tangible that a player (who usually sucks) is doing
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
For anyone who watched the Illinois-Clemson game
The announcer literally came out and said this about the goofy Clemson player with the goggles. He said he has “no true skill, his skill is effort.”
I expect to hear “and with the 14th selection in the 2010 NBA draft, from Clemson University, the Chicago Bulls select…” next June.
LLLLLLOOOOOLLLLL!!!!! So true
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
or in the case of the houston boys, its a better story if they are just gritty
and not at all skilled, so the media pretends that they merely hustle their way into wins.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
the more talent we have the closer we get to a championship contender
the closer we get to a championship contender the more management will be forced to pay for players
by sin on Dec 4, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Noah's their best defensive player
but yeah, they’re actively punting reasons to enjoy watching the team. More hustle, less talent (except Gordon DID hustle..I dunno I guess you just have to LOOK hustly). Rose will be dealt in 2012 for Ray Felton. I hear he’s more consistent.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
I think it's arguable as to who is better.
But I want to put “arguably” in every time. Meh.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
That way Kurt can be the starter again,
on his new 6-year/$72M contract!
Rose will be dealt in 2012 for Ray Felton.
"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith
by Granny Waiters on Dec 5, 2009 4:33 AM CST up reply actions
how's this for a better tyrus deal...
not better in the sense that we get more talent, but better in the sense that we actually get 2010 cap space out of it
we send kirk and tyrus to dallas, they give us dampier (13 mill fully unguaranteed next year) and beaubois.
from dallas’ standpoint, the talent upgrade is huge. they probably won’t be too happy about losing dampier since he’s really their only true center, but they would get kirk to take terrible jj barea’s minutes, and they’d get tyrus as a defensive minded PF to help with weakside D. plus, kirk’s salary wouldn’t be a real detterant to cuban since he’ll pay whatever so long as he wins
for us, well, we get big cap relief next summer, and a young guard who, while not at kirks level, is at least better than pargo and hunter for the rest of the season. thoughts?
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
I think they actually like Beabois quite a bit. He's more valuable than throw-in, especially
given how putrid Kirk has been this year.
Damp is also more valuable to Dallas than you’re crediting him for. Cuban loves him.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
i realize all that
but i think if we offered that to dallas they’d be crazy not to take it. they’re an older team that’s playing well, and they should take all the talent they can get right now to try and win. no matter how much they like beaubois and damp, i don’t really think there is much denying that tyrus and kirk are better than both of them right now
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
I don't really see how well Tyrus fits in next to Dirk, given his penchant for shooting
jumpers. Dirk and Noah fit perfectly, but Dirk and Tyrus? Not so much. Both want to operate as 4s on the perimeter.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
well ive always thought
tyrus’ penchant for shooting jumpers has had more to do with this stupid offense than any proclivity towards it on his part.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
harrington is a poor mans dirk
harrington can also slide down to the 3.
dirk would be a good fit next year. P n R , P n Pop, with rose and as spot up shooter on perimeter when rose goes one on one at top of key.
Harrington
Is a third world Dirk…and that might be selling Dirk short. Al’s not close.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
they likely don't love Dampier as much as they might as well wait
an actual star could be available, with Damp providing instant savings. And Dallas wouldn’t not acquire talent because they already have talent.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Trading Tyrus
Its just sad and a waste of a #2 pick. I would rather hold to Tyrus and just not resign him then trading for Al. Atleast holding onto your cards gives you the potential for a good hand. Instead the Bull’s organization would rather just discard him.
Tyrus has been gone (to the organization) since the playoff series vs Boston. Vinny power trip.
ShipTileDirect.com - Why pay expensive retail prices? When you can ShipTileDirect at a fraction of the cost.
im sorry. we saw ben dropped for nothing.
i dont want to see that again
by sin on Dec 4, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Tyrus has value its our crappy coach and org. that led to this
All the great players are great because of their above average talent and work ethic and the system in which they play in. VDN has no system thus our players value decreases and we complain cause the look like crap when they play. If you look back at Deng before Skiles was canned Deng was considered an emerging all star. Kobe didn’t even want to come to us if Deng wasn’t still here. Coaches and the system they use make good players great. Tyrus is gonna strive in New York and if he puts in the work as Amare we’ll be later saying how New York robbed us. I guess since we gave them curry and duhon Karma was gonna catch up to us sooner or later.
by stretch1 on Dec 4, 2009 10:34 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Notice how Kirk gets 'hurt'
when the team is struggling… He’s the most trade-proof player on the team.
Make fun of him long enough, he'll go on the DL
from a broken heart :(
by NittanyCub on Dec 4, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
He's getting dealt.
Sam Smith told me. Or as he put it in the email, I can see Hinrich being dealt. He’s an insider you know.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
He also could see the Bulls re-signing Thomas
wait till he’s traded and we can find out more ‘malcontent stories’.
Anybody notice McGraw this week with his shot at Sam (I’ll assume) for blowing up Gordon as a bad teammate (loner)? Sam’s a survivor, I’ll give him that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
at this point i look at sam as little more than a mouthpiece for the org.
that taj piece just days after the epic taj rant on here sealed the deal for me on that one
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
I want to see Hinrich dealt, but
Reinsdorf’s man love for Kirk will keep him a life time Bull, the only way Kirk gets traded is for a game chaging player, like the way the Bulls got Rodman for Purdue(Reinsdorf man crush), but I don’t see that happening, Hinrich is valued like a super star player
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 4, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
they tried to trade him last season.
Nobody wanted Spock.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
Teflon Kurt.
2003-2014
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Kirk hasn't historically been hurt
Averaging 78 games a year before last season…..and the only time he was out for a somewhat stretch was when he had the flu before his first ever NBA game…that I remember…
Then he had that fluky wrist thing last year that was hurting him but he was trying to play through it and the team doctors looked at it and saw that he needed surgery…
Well it seems the surgery ain’t holding up as that’s why he’s out….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
its a different thumb this time
thumb injuries are common….i get em all the time, i usually stop playing for a few days after i get one and it heals up fine, i dont think hinrich has the same options…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I thought I read
On the same surgically repaired hand on hoops hype…I was surprised by it so it stood out…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
nah, different thumb
I wonder if his aggressive defense will just make these things more common though.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
My bad
Man, I was sure hoping that could explain just how crappy he’s been on O this year….I mean besides the fact that our “combo” PG is and always was a real PG, just not the upper echelon one we thought we had 3 years ago…
Oh well….maybe Kirk’s drinking the same drinks he had 2 years ago….sadly.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
meh
I think its just a slump. I didn’t catch much of the preseason, but from what little I watched he seemed to shoot the ball relatively well.
I could definitely see his defense being part of the issue with this thumbs though. If I remember correctly, he injured his thumb last year while guarding Nash.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
preseason though
doesn’t have the same D intensity that the reg season has…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
how about no d
hes been missing wide open shots that he was making in preseason…..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Yeah
As I said I don’t get him this year…missing for a game or two is one thing, but for teh 10-12 he played is getting crazy…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
So, the Curry trade netted the Bulls, SAVINGS, SAVINGS, SAVINGS!!!
And Joakim Noah. Thank god he came around. Shit, if he was still drinking and smoking weed in public, the Bulls might trade him, too.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
It does seem like the Knicks are our government bailout at times.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Does this mean
That the govt bailout now will help the govt? Cuz this trade is easily better for the Knicks in talent and long term….
But hey at least this trade fits a deep need for our team…even if Thomas has more talent.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
The deeper need for our team is to get rid of VDN...
How does this trade help to THAT end.
Concerned.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
With the way Noah is playing, he will cost too much to re-sign,
so they will trade him for crap.
And Joakim Noah. Thank god he came around. Shit, if he was still drinking and smoking weed in public, the Bulls might trade him, too.
"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith
by Granny Waiters on Dec 5, 2009 4:37 AM CST up reply actions
hah!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
What if this deal falls apart
and the Bulls lose Tyrus for nothing? That would mean the Bulls would have lost a #3 overall pick and #2 overall pick for abso-fricken’ nothing!
by RogersPark Kris on Dec 4, 2009 10:48 AM CST reply actions
Its like Jay Williams....
Without the motorcycle!
At least we got three productive seasons out of Thomas.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 4, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We need a photoshop
Of Gar Paxdorf riding a Vespa into Fort Knox.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Harrington is close to nothing.
But you’re right, at least when the Chairman decides he’s never going to pay a guy, this time he told someone.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
is there another franchise that is even decent that has ever done something like this?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
its funny
further emphasize how much the Org. detests talent
I think one of the main reason we took Tyrus was because of the potential talent he had. It amazes me that an organization can just give up on guys over and over again. I mean they have to see that they are the ones that re filing to bring these guys up to whatever the level they are expecting them to be. How do you not make moves, by getting other players around for development of even better getting coaches and staff who know what they are doing. This organization has been doing the same ol’ crap for more than a decade now and still haven’t learned from their countless mistakes.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
Who have they given up on that matters?
I see a collective pool bad players (Curry, Fizer, etc) with a couple of guys who were good for a couple of seasons (Chandler, Crawford) and Ron Artest who is crazy and drank at halftime…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
another random thought
could this also signal that insurance isn’t actually paying jerome james’ contract? it’s been pointed out that we’d get some savings this year by doing this deal, but if james is covered via insurance then we really wouldnt (although this deal would lower our cap number this year, so we could in theory go out and get a couple more useful players and stay under the tax)
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
There is no indication that insurance would be covering James contract...
The two games and 10 minutes he played last season pretty much sealed that…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
I don't believe that this is the best trade we could do including Tyrus
But it’s betteer than losing him for nothing. If only we could include Hinrich or something and get Wilson Chandler and Duhon, it wouldn’t be so bad. I don’t know if the salaries match, tough…
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
it is what it is
if they’re shopping him, and this is what they wind up with, then it was probably the best they could do.
Maybe they could do better in February, but that’s a risk.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
if VDN doesn't play him enough anyway
his value will only fall.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure about that. I think a lot of GM's understand rate stats to an extent.
Maybe the Bulls are the only ones who give Harrington any “value”. If Thomas did well in 20-25 mpg, which he will get, then I think he has plenty of value. But he might not do that, of course.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Reinsdorf is too smart on taxes
to not use stats to measure the performance of his roster.
He’s probably using them, but never talking about it.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
you're assuming he cares about the performance of his roster.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
they are losing him for nothing
i don’t understand why people keep saying this. Harrington won’t be retained passed this year if this trade goes down
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
I'm assuming they won't trade only Tyrus and JJ for Harrington
I expect something more. What?! Well, I don’t know…
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
What if this is ingenious?
What if the Bulls are drumming up interest by saying, “Hey, If Tyrus can be had for Al Harrington, maybe your team can offer a little more and get him?”
(crosses fingers)
by kingj41 on Dec 4, 2009 11:04 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
yeah
All optimism dies with this team. That’s usually why I like to delay my basketball interest until January. But the Bears have forced me to pay a little less attention to football this year. It may be time to go all-in on the Blackhawks. They’re at least interest in developing and keeping their young talent.
How many times have there been rumors of the Bulls acquiring Al Harrington?
There might be some GM planting this garbage or Gar might be the one that really likes Harrington’s game.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Sounds like Konerko to the Angels rumors Sox Fans have been dealing with for the past 5 offseasons...
Please find Jay Cutler some help...
Reminds me of the
Bulls interested in Drew Gooden talks.
Why oh why do we only hear rumours about mid level to below mid level talents….
Oh well, Harrington is fully mid level talent….better than _rew, and definitely a better fit than _rew was….though who knows if Drew was healthy this year and Noah played like he’s been playing, Drew could look better, but Harrington better than Drew…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Hmm looks like no Bulls talk on the score670 today.
Bernstein is at a Bar Mitzvah.. damn!
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
I'll paraphrase it for you
Berns: “Tyrus for Al Harrington? Meh. Harrington’s just a guy. Neither player brings you closer to a championship. Only a team with LeBron will win a championship, so I don’t worry about things like this”
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Terry: "yup, yup, exactly what I was going to say"
(love them both, but they do get lazy sometimes)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Oh I can do Terry also.. here I go..
Terry: Kids! And Kids! My peeps! Muuuuhhh crackyyy thats a thing, Tyrus and let me tell you something folks I don’t know many people who would tell you other wise but thats just a thing a thing byyyyyy cracky, that ass clown… I mean..
Dan: after the break I have some Tiger thoughts
Terry: Ohhh ohhhh my please please, thats a thing.
Dan: 670 the score!
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
by SoulEater7 on Dec 4, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Terry has been right about Tyrus over last year.
For all the times Terry says “my guy said this” … he was right about the Bulls wanting to trade Tyrus. All of last season and this summer Boers has continued saying his Bulls peeps told him John/Gar were trying to ship Tyrus out of town( the Amare thing, draft day,) and no team would take him( well the Knicks).
I think there is proof for this
Ok, its true that when Terry says Bulls are actively trying to shop Thomas last Feb and before the draft …. and then he doesnt get traded…. its fair to not believe his sources.
However, the 2009 NBA Draft is proof that they are willing to part with him and have been trying to do so. There is no other way to analyze the Bulls draft other than a safe Tyrus replacement and a Risky more upside replacemnt.
It's also true to believe that in February and the off-season....
…teams are shopping young talents that don’t fit the company mold. That’s when guys are shopped, ya know?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Taj's metrics are pretty low no matter which player evaluation method you subscribe to(Win share, PER) and his ceiling is pretty low.
I don’t understand why the Bulls feel he can be a rotation player on a playoff team.
He can be
a rotation player, you rotate his ass in for the last 30 seconds of the first half
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 4, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder how much Forman paid Rose to say this
Chicago Bulls guard Derrick Rose admitted on Thursday that he has fantasized about playing alongside Cleveland Cavaliers star LeBron James and other superstars who will make up the free agent class of 2010.
Rose even made a playful recruiting pitch.
“Any one of them superstars needs to come here,” Rose said. “I wouldn’t mind playing with anybody, especially a guy like [James]. He can’t do nothing but make the team better.”
It's pretty obvious one of either Amare, Bosh, Wade, or LeBron is going to end up in Chicago
I’m just starting to wonder whether we can get two of them….
Please find Jay Cutler some help...
its almost as obvious when....
We were suppose to get tmac, duncan
by aznlildelfin on Dec 4, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
But those
Bulls teams were horrible, at least this team has some players that make Chicago attractive
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 4, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
you guys are nuttier by the day
Rose also said Ben Gordon was the best scorer he ever played with, big deal.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Derrick Rose is just an honest kid.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
what?!?
Rose is one of the most savvy intellectuals the game has ever seen. He is throwing out a line trying to hook Lebron. Lebron probably called his agent right after he heard this and said “Get me to Chicago. I want to be robin to his batman!” His salesmanship should never be questioned. Nor should his ability to state the obvious.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
tyrus thomas is NOT injured
the flue and the randomly broken arm were just covers to hide the fact that VDN doesn’t like him for whatever reason (that may or may not have to do with what comes out of TT’s brain) and making the conflict public in a AI out of philly kind of way, so as to decrease his trade value.
Yeah
Bulls are trying to lessen Tyrus Thomas’s value and doing a damn good job of it by making him be hurt so we can get blown out 4 straight games out West, lose to a Bucks team that we clearly looked to be better than in the game (again though time before last we were lucky to win)….and we even struggled to blow out a hapless Pistons team with 3 of it’s top 4 players completely out, and it’s other top player slowed by injury….
Makes perfect sense….
We could be a lot better with T2 playing over Taj and the org as the rest of the world knows this…as much as the org is tryingt o make us think Taj is the savior because a trade is looming.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
ya but i dont think the coaching staff thinks so.
i legitimately believe they think that TT can’t help them win. for whatever reason, most likely its because VDN would want him in a reduced role to help them win, but TT would have a problem with that. my guess is the fake injury theory is an amicable decision between the two parties.
I would have to hope
Gar and especially Pax know so….
I think this talk from the announcers is staged so when Tyrus leaves the backlash might be lessened for the moronic Bulls fan’s side….and believe me, there are a lot of them (not here typically, but the general fan who doesn’t follow as closely as us fanatics).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I mean I find it interesting
That we hear Taj has the D principles down, and that he’s been an ok for a rookie the first 10 games or whatever (and all considering for his pick and how early in the year it’s been he has done ok—there’s plenty that haven’t played….he’s not Blair—which I still don’t get—but he’s been better than the complete and total can’t play a minute bust he seemed to be on draft day, and could get reasonably better).
But then the last 2 games it’s been all this Taj is great, and the best defender on the team jazz, then it’s now that Tyrus is traded….
Those announcers work for the Bulls, they read Bulls marketing slogans, offers, etc….they probably get pushed to say certain things (throw them out there)….
I mean we’ve seen enough of Stacey’s let’s break it down stuff to know he can actually see the game (even if he does them too much at times and can be a mockery with obviousness in others) he can see the game well and knows the game well—too bad he couldn’t play it as well when he was here….but there’s no way he or Neil realy think Taj right now is our best on and off ball defender….there’s just no way. That seems fed because a trade’s occurring and possibly for a non defender after a whole offseason of them saying DEFENSE is our key…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
In Stacey's defense
it’s a lot easier to talk about playing good basketball than actually playing good basketball.
Oh I get it
I remember as a kid being pumped when we got him and BJ, and he was a big name in college (I was maybe 9-10 thoguh) but my then 17-18 yr old bro and I were excited…
I like Stacey personally, I think he adds humour, at times gets annoying, was terrible with Dore and Kerr, but with Neil he’s gotten better (mainly because Kerr was in the Harry Caray stage) and Dore was really mind numblingly bad…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
A lot of people were excited about getting King
because he was a very good player in college. Then he pulled a Cedric Benson (Bears-era) & Eddy Curry combo – got lazy and fat while talking trash to his own teammates – and became a huge bust.
Too young to remember the specifics at the time at least
Not saying you’re older than me, but I was one of those yeah blind love of my team 9 yr olds then—as most are…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
i think ur just thinking in terms of x's and o's.
sure, MAYBE, they might see him as helping the team in terms of x’s and o’s. but they only see that with his reduced role. tyrus in that role is gonna cause problems for the locker room. VDN does’nt think this guy is gonna work out long term, as in be the all star pf, so hes not gonan give him the keys ot the car. meanwhile, tt is in a contract year and needs the min to get paid.
i could easily see that turning into some nicely timed injuries despite the fact that everyone knows he is better for the team x’s and o’s wise.
In the YaoPau mold (not mocking, but seriously):
The Bulls would rather decrease the value of Tyrus Thomas to the fan base than increase his value to other teams. The worse he looks to the fans, the less the fans care about losing him. They’ll still pay money to watch.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Dec 4, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
You are gonna have to change your avatar...
Says the guy with the Khalid El-Amin profile.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
In memoriam!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Financial implications
By my calculations, if this trade goes through, it will actually result in just under $4M in additional expense, for the season on the part of the Bulls. First, we’re not paying 80% of Jerome James’ salary. When we take Harrington, we’ll have to pay 100% of his. Second, since it’d be a 2 for 1 deal, we’ll have to spend another $500-800k on a minimum salary player to get to the minimum roster size.
If the trade goes through, I conclude the Bulls think Harrington’s offense might be the difference between a significant level of winning and losing. Perhaps they believe they need more offense to make the playoffs, and Tyrus won’t get much for them.
I’m not sure I disagree with them. I’m not wild about Harrington, but especially since I don’t have faith in either Tyrus or the Bulls to utilize him properly, I expect Harrington to be more productive on the court. And that matters for this season.
Beyond this season, of course, it’s better to have the younger RFA. But only if you can utilize him properly. Which the Bulls can’t.
So it’s yet another deal that makes sense within the context of the Bulls own special brand of dysfunctionality. I think it gets done.
The one thing that really bothers me about it is that it very much kills any way I can find to do MPG’s trade of Miller, Kurt and Jerome James off for TMac and change. I suppose we could replace James in that deal with Salmons, but it’d leave us extremely thin on the wings behind the already injury riddled TMac. Perhaps if we added in a pick and they added in Buddinger?
My ideal world, I suppose would be
Bulls trade
Kirk/Salmons/Miller/2010 1st round pick
to Rockets for
TMac, Brian Cook, Kyle Lowry, Chase Buddinger
Bulls trade
Jerome James
Tyrus Thomas
to Knicks for
Al Harrington
They roll with an up-tempo lineup featuring:
1- Rose 28, Lowry 20, Hunter
2- TMac 34, Rose 10, Buddinger 4, Pargo
3- Deng 30, Buddinger 18, JJ
4- Harrington 34, Deng 6, Gibson 8, Cook
5- Noah 36, Cook/Gray 12
We’d still be too small up front and not very deep, but we’d gain
1. Lots and lots of firepower
2. Definite max contract space for this summer
by Sports2 on Dec 4, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
i like it except
who takes the mantle of my favorite player? Cmon rose, develop already!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Rose to me
Looks like he’s developed, it’s just that the mix of players are bad for him without a real shooter or inside scorer to keep defenses honest….
All they have to do is clog the middle and Rose pass to a shooter for a clang…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
rose's problem is aggresiveness.
he scores only when the defense forgets about him in half court. (i.e. the bigman doesn’t come up to help off the pick and he gets a relatively wide open mid-range jumper) or in the half court.
he hasn’t perfected the use of the cross-over to break his man down in misdirection. all his breaking down comes from quickness of telegraphed first steps… which are admittedly effective.
he has alot to learn before he can become a dominant scorer. i honestly believe this. kill me if you want. I was extremely high on rose last year. he was my favorite player. but this year… seeing the SAME issues with his one-on-one play made me lower his ceiling a bit.
Question?
Where did you read that the Bulls were only paying 20% of James’ salary? I have referenced the Coon Faq, but can’t seem to find out James would qualify.
Thanks,
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
I agree
Until I see a source for this, I won’t believe. People on the Real GM board say that James contract is not insured. And considering he was talking about a return at the beginning of the season… I need more proof.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
From what I've read
The insurance payments kick in for the club once the player has been inactive in 41 straight games. I’m not sure how it works once he’s switched clubs, but he’d missed 56 straight when he was in NY. (I’ll link when I find it, but I remember coming across it when reading about McGrady’s continued inactive streak once he thought he was ready to play…)
Section on
…Assuming that McGrady is covered under the NBA’s Temporary Total Disability (TTD) insurance policy, Houston can start to collect up to 80 percent of his prorated per-game salary after he’s missed 41 consecutive games. McGrady sat out his 42nd straight game Wednesday in Minnesota, and the league insurance plan would reimburse the Rockets for any additional missed games.
For the rest of the season, the insurance policy could cover 80 percent of his per-game salary of $282,946. Even if McGrady returns to the lineup for one or more games this season, the insurance would still pay the Rockets for each additional missed game…
I don't think the cash is as important as the room under the tax
The Bulls likely know (I hope) they need more depth as much as we do. As long as they don’t trigger the tax, Uncle Jerry is probably cool with missing out on the insurance payout.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
I dont know if I like this trade, or if it sucks...
I think I like it bc harrington brings scoring, and experience, but he isnt a great defender. I think I dont like it bc, and i can so see this happening, TT goes to NY and comes out of his shell like a champ and develops a solid post game, and the bulls as usually look stupid for giving him up. On the other hand, freeing up room for a shot at a FA is always a plus, then again, with the bulls track record of going after big name players, do they really have a shot?? I’m confused….I dont know, im on the fence with this one.
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 4, 2009 1:02 PM CST reply actions
You know what really pisses me off about this trade idea (other than losing TT)
The fact that Jerome James is included. Here’s a guy whose only value is as a trade sweeter and he’s beeing use to trade 23 yr old Tyrus Thomas to the Knicks for 29 yr old, soon to an unrestricted free agent, Al F**** Harrington. Are you telling that’s the best they can do. On top of that, there’s no doubt in my mind that Harrington won’t be resigned.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Dec 4, 2009 1:29 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Bottom line this trade sucks. I’m sick of this organization, I really am.
by hokiefan0705 on Dec 4, 2009 1:45 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Same here.
It sucks that Tyrus is gonna go out like this, if the deal goes down, but Harrington isn’t all that bad.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I think the Bulls might as well throw in James Johnson, too.
It’s clear he’s Tyrus-lite with the Bulls organization: a physically talented guy they don’t think works hard enough or smart enough or plays the game the right way. This story has already been written and it only ends one way. I say just trade him now for nothing and be done with it. As a fan I would enjoy that more than watching them screw up another young athletic player over the next 2 years.
And besides, the Bulls got Taj Gibson so this year’s draft is already a big win.
yeah but he's still cheap
and they need someone to beat up on.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be fine letting JJ go
Frees up more money for the salary cap next year….2 picks this year and all…and Taj is reasonable, just shouldn’t be playing this much this soon.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I think this trade helps mightily this year
Harrington is among the league’s best offensive PFs. I’ve got him over +2 offensively since the ‘06-’07 season, and his 3pt shooting and some ability to score inside is a good fit with our offense. The best part, of course, is bringing in Harrington means way less Taj. I wouldn’t be surprised if we coast into the playoffs after this trade.
After that though, it’s downright scary. Management loves him (they tried to get him a few years ago), and if the Bulls stay hot with Harrington as a main cog, in 2010… I don’t even want to predict that far. But add in that JJ would probably continue to sit most of the year, and that’s one more 1st round pick that didn’t see the floor his rookie year.
All in all, not a bad trade considering management’s view of Tyrus. Just another example of an organization putting short term gain over building toward a title.
"Harrington is among the league's best offensive PFs"
jaw drop.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
I mean D'Antoni and Nelson famously take an offensive approach to basketball...
Whatever happens on defense happens but we will outscore you at all costs.
Does he truly have great offensive skills, or does he just have great offensive numbers?
I’m really asking, I don’t know.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
I know I was responding to your reply of a different comment...
But it still applies.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Odom, Gasol, Shard, Dirk, Nene, Sheed, Troy Murphy, David West, Amare, LMA, Bosh,
Boozer, Jamison are all guys I’d say are better than Al Harrington at PF. There are others that are more arguable that I didn’t include. But let’s see . . . that’s 13 that are seemingly head and shoulders above Harrington on O. He’s hardly one of the league’s best offensive PFs.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
KG, Josh Smith and Duncan are some other names that come to mind.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
what?
All three of those guys are averaging well over 50% from the field this year.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
KG and Duncan
Aren’t ones to put major points up anymore….they might be efficent because they are really smart players and know their roles, etc and grab boards…but they also aren’t the main O players (Manu, Parker, Jefferson probably in SA nowadays, Duncan hasn’t been that guy in quite a few years, still damn awesome top 1-4 PF probably in the league, but that’s what it is).
KG too hasn’t been near the O player he was, nor is he a main target on O…he’s a fantastic defender….
Josh Smith has been amazing so far this year, but that’s a short sample size….though I could be underrating him and he def has potential, I still remember all the forced crap of even last year….and 20 games or whatevers too small to change that.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I stopped reading after the first paragraph
duncan has put that team on his back this year.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Will it last
18 pts too?
They’ve had injuries as well.
Duncan is the all time best PF ever…he’s on my fantasy squad, he’s a fantastic defender, rebounder, gets easy put backs, and great passer, with no weaknesses….but he is not a pure offensive player anymore…and when Parker and Manu are healthy Duncan’s role there will be lessened..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
you've done nothing to support your assertion that he's not as good of an offensive player as Al Harrington
he’ll be better on offense then Al Harrington when he’s 50.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
best pf in the league
i dont think he has lost that title yet…and its not on one end of the floor…its on both…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Dirk and Gasol def above him
Duncan’s efficient, but his scoring comes more from the rebounding these days than simply handing to him on the block to create…
Duncan is a billion times better than Harrington, but I would be completely flabbergasted to see a 30 pt let alone 40 pt Duncan outing….
Duncan could have a 24-16-4 game easily though….
That’s all I’m trying to say.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
im not sure dirk and gasol are above him
or rather im sure they are not, both those players are soft, and especially in crunch time, while duncan is consistant no matter what the situation….last year tony parker and manu were both injured and duncan was all they had and they were still winning some games against some hard teams…and even now duncan is the best player on that spurs team…put duncan on the lakers, and they will get better, put duncan on the mavericks and they will get better, but put dirk or gasol on the spurs, and i think u lose a few games…..
Duncan is considered the best pf perhaps ever by many…dirk is considered the biggest mismatch in the nba with his rare skills, while gasol is just considered the most skilled big men (in terms of moves he can do in the post) but duncan..hes the best…he can post up, he can knock down 20 foot jumpers (banking them no less) he can block and rebound and deny position, he can shoot free throws and he is unaffected by double teams and pressures of all sorts….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
He is still their best player
Forget it, I don’t think what I’m trying to say is coming through…I’m talking merely offensively. Put Duncan on a D’Antoni or a Nelson team and he’ll be hard pressed to score 40 no matter the offense run or if he doesn’t use any of his natural effort on D.
I am only talking offensively, not all around game…..
I would say top 5 PF’s:
1) Dirk (he might be “soft”) but he’s also the league’s toughest matchup.
2) Tim Duncan. Still a f-ing amazing player through and through. Offensively not this high perhaps ANYMORE, but in the all around game still ridiculous.
3) Pau Gasol. Shedding the soft label eh. Bulls brass are complete morons for not going for Gasol…..I said it then, and now it’s trendy to say it. He might be underrated here as he has all the gifts to be #1, but so be it, I’d still talk Dirk and Tim D over him.
4) KG. Best defender of the bunch so far, not quite as solid offensively as he was (even if he defers a bit, he just isn’t).
5) Chris Bosh. I don’t know yet, has all the gifts….we’ll have to see what he can do with a winner before he moves up, still I wouldn’t put him ahead of KG likely for another year or two. He’s like the young KG still and might emerge soon. Not as good a passer as Gasol (And doesn’t have quite the inside game), but he can score, and is a pretty solid defender when need be…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
thank you
its one thing to say he is a quality offensive player. Its totally different to claim he is one of the top offensive power forwards in the league
you can add Bargani, David Lee, Josh Smith, Beasley, Odom, Thompson, Randolph, Love and Al Jefferson
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, there are pretty much a LOT of beter offensive PFs than Harrington.
YaoPau’s comment doesn’t pass the laugh test.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
They don't pass *your* laugh test
So far you and Smurf have said “no, these guys are better because that’s what I say”, which isn’t an argument. But continue laughing.
how about a decibel test?
we can measure how loud their respective teams laugh at the thought of trading their PF for Al harrington.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
I looked at a number of different places.
PER is one thing I look at.
APM is another. I like the hoopnumbers one. http://hoopnumbers.com/allAnalysisView?analysis=offRAPM&discussion=False&leaders=True&year=2009
TS% and ORtg are also useful.
I look at all of them and don’t believe too much in any one. Your blind faith in APM is strange especially for a guy who once argued that all stats should be pragmatic, easy to calculate, and make sense . . . APM is by and large a black box, extremely noisy, and has super high standard errors. With offense, especially there’s no good reason to use APM over other box score metrics. I like APM way more for defense than I do for offense, but you seem to rely on it for both, which doesn’t make loads of sense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't use APM
PER underrates Harrington because he has SG-type stats. His 3pt rate and average TS% aren’t rated highly enough, his low rebound rate hurts him more than it should. Hollinger does this because big men are typically worse offensively, so he gives big guy stats more weight so everyone’s on an even playing surface.
ORtg depends on his team’s rating, which obviously is bad. TS% only makes sense when used with USG%, making Harrington’s average TS% more impressive than TS% alone would show. And APM, you’re right, is noisy.
I used a statistical that, when calculated for every player, weighted by minutes, and summed for every team, correlates with team ORtg at 0.9. It’s basically PER without the big man extra weight. That shows Harrington at +2 for three consecutive years. Does it mean he’d be +2 with the Bulls? No. Does it mean that he’s +2 only because of D’Antoni? No.
But three straight years at +2 is significant, and few PFs can say that, especially ones who take on as much of the scoring load as Harrington does.
His TS% last year wasn't even 55%. His career TS% is 52.1%.
You’re just so far off base here it’s not funny.
ORtg does NOT depend on his team’s ORtg. That’s DRtg.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
And it's not underrating him because he has SG type stats.
You don’t want your PF to have SG stats. His lack of rebounding WILL hurt his team.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not arguing that it won't
Harrington’s not a great overall player. I said he’s one of the best offensively, and way better than Taj. But it is underrating him because he has SG type stats. That’s how PER works.
He doesn't rebound on offense, either, though. That's a problem.
It hurts the offense when you get fewer second chance points. This should be obvious, no?
It’s not underrating someone to rank them relative to their peers. This is especially salient to our argument here because you were comparing him to other PFs. The fact that he doesn’t offensive rebound is bad for his overall contribution to offense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
It all adds up
He’s not a great offensive rebounder, but he limits turnovers and gets some steals. All and all, the small stuff is basically a wash with him.
I just think you’re underestimating the impact of this guy’s scoring. Check this out. Among players with 2000+ minutes played since the start of last season, Harrington ranks 11th in the NBA in field goal attempts per 36. He’s ahead of Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Bosh, Duncan, Kevin Martin, Chris Paul, Ben Gordon, etc etc etc.
You got a guy taking that many shots (and I understand pace figures in, so does lack of FTA, though Harrington gets to the line a decent amount) and still shooting a 54.9 TS%, and that’s prettty good. If you thought I was saying he’s Dirk, then okay, misunderstanding. But you guys are acting like he’s garbage. Dude’s good.
I'm willing to say he's a good offensive player.
I’m not, however, willing to say he’s “among the league’s best offensive PFs,” which is what you said.
Is he an above average offensive player? Yes.
Is he pretty good on offense? Yes.
Is he anywhere near the best offensive PFs in the league? No.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Okay then.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
You don't think his lack of offensive rebounding is going to
hurt the offense some?
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
Deng and Noah
Are above avg rebounders for their position though….
Having more shots go in will help more than the loss in boards….and Ty’s boards have dipped as he improved in blocks and shooting anyway.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Again
I prefer Tyrus…but he’s gone and Al might help more in the short term than having Tyrus sit for Taj would do..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
we are 26th in defensive rebounding
so even with Deng and Noah, we need a lot of help on the boards.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
no doubt he would be an upgrade over Taj
and he probably will improve the team, given VDN’s aversion to playing Tyrus. I wouldn’t be catastrophically upset if the Bulls did the trade. It just confirms my negative perceptions of the Bulls organization.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
I am not saying
I don’t like Tyrus….
I do…again…but he’s gone and he’ll sit for Taj anyway cuz the org is moronic…and they’ll say development…
So I wouldn’t mind this.
We’ll be more effective offensively, which’ll wash the shortcomings…
If we had a real 2 guard (Salmons is a 3, Kirk’s “combo” ness i sjust a marketing ploy to keep him because we have Rose since Kirk plays the right way), I wouldn’t like this at all….
I prefer us to keep Tyrus, do whatever possible to rid ourselves of Deng or more importantly Kirk (I like Kirk too, but again better for the org to not have the luxury—Deng is fine to keep either way but I think Tyrus has some more upside to be as effective as Deng for a few million less $$/year which in a declining cap is necessary for the future) to keep Tyrus…as 23 yr old Tyrus, Noah, Rose (and ideally Deng if Hinrich was shipped with Salmons out for expirings) and the max guy at 27-28 is a great nucleous for phase 1 of Rose’s career.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
He has SG stats
but he is a power forward… So how is wrong to compare him to his peer group? And compared to his peer group he rebounds less, scores less efficiently, and passes less.
I’m not arguing that he doesn’t provide some quality on offense. But it is a far cry to suggest that Harrington, even in a career year, should be mentioned in the same breath as Dirk, Amar’e, Gasol, Bosh, Boozer or any of the other top offensive power forwards. He hasn’t proven he can consistently compete with those guys.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Jesus you guys are like hounds :)
1) I never said he’s in that group. In fact, I said he’s not in that group. But in the group right below, with all-star caliber players like David West, Antawn Jamison, etc.
2) He doesn’t offensive rebound, but the difference is really small. Amare will get you 2.0 offensive boards per 36, Harrington 1.5. Dirk 1.0. The best guys will be around 3.0. It’s important, but it’s not like Harrington is killing you in that dept.
3) He does other small stuff though. He gets over a steal per game, and those will sometimes lead to easy possessions. He doesn’t turn the ball over much considering his usage. And that 26+ usage is huge. Taking that many shots and still staying somewhat efficient is impressive.
I think your first statement is what did it.
“Among the best”
Who’s the best?
Amare, Dirk, Lewis, etc.
Among = in that group… I think in most people’s minds.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I mean for Christ's Sake Harrington had a 15.9 PER last year (same as Tyrus)
and a 105 ORtg (1 point above Tyrus’s 104). For his career Harrington is a 14.4 PER and a 102 ORtg, and you’re going to get indignant about me laughing at you for suggesting that he’s one of the best offensive PFs in the league.
You’re slipping, man.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
Don't use ORtg
Bad, bad stat. PER is way more impressive and accurate.
okay even by PER he's pretty much average.
I’m glad that you’ve got a new fangled stat that you think helps, but since I don’t have access to your information, I can only go by what’s publicly available and what my eyes tell me.
He’s an average offensive player and a right awful defensive player.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
How can he be avg then
If he’s just an avg offensive player and a downright awful d player?
Sadly....through thick and thin....
PER mostly measures offense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
I don't care as much on PER
And didn’t quote as much. Harrington opens the court, that’s all and must be guarded…something this O deprived team needs.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
This year
his per is 19.2. D’Antoni offense or not, that’s way above his previous years even in Golden State. I can’t watch Knicks games because they are so awful but maybe he’s having an outlier year like Salmons had last year.
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
Yes, but with a much higher usage rate
which indicates he’s capable of bearing some of the offensive load we desperately need bourne.
Here goes
Harrington as one of the best power forwards in the league doesn’t pass the smell test.
I didn’t think I needed to argue that a guy who has been traded multiple times, who is always trade bait, and who can never find a consistent job is not one of the top offensive power forwards in the league.
But here goes -
He currently ranks 12th among power forwards in the NBA for PER, even though his PER is at a CAREER HIGH LEVEL of 19.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/rankings?pos=6
Last year his PER was 15.98. His career PER is 14.4. You are telling me that a power forward with a career PER of 14.4 is one of the best offensive power forwards in the league? That is complete bullshit.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
are those guys available through a trade for TT???
in other words, do their respective teams want to give them up for TT?? Seems unlikely to me
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 4, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
try to follow along
yaopau claimed that Harrington was one of the best offensive power forwards in the league. Fundamentallysound is trying to refute that assertion. Your point is completely misplaced.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Boozer...
Bosh too (in larger packages obviously). I would think that Thompson could be had too.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Did you scrape that straight off APM?
I’ll wait till Odom scores over 9ppg before I call him “head and shoulders above” Harrington. Sheed, what? Lewis, Murphy, West, LMA, Jamison are all at Harrington’s level. Nene and Bosh are centers.
Gasol, Dirk, Boozer, Amare are clearly better. After that, the 18ppg, 55 TS% resume matches up against anybody.
I think you should watch more basketball
1.) Bosh is a forward. Bargnani is the center for the Raptors.
2.) all of those guys listed are better than Harrington.
Odom could score just as much if he took a shot whenever he felt like it. Luckily, he’s smart enough to know better.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Nene and Bosh are not centers.
And I got the numbers from a variety of different places. Odom contributes offensively in myriad different way, just because he doesn’t take many shots (he’s a Laker after all they have plenty of talent on offense). And yes, Sheed probably doesn’t make the list this year, but over the last few years… better than Harrington.
Lewis, Murphy, West, LMA, Jamison, etc. are all better than Harrington, I don’t know where you’re getting your numbers from, but Harrington is not that good.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, yes he is.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
You don't even support your points anymore
The past couple weeks you’ve stated your opinions as fact and moved on. And that’s okay, but it doesn’t add to the discussion.
It's not a point I'm making. I'm just telling you where someone plays on the floor.
I can do that without supporting it. It’s easy to find out. Just turn on a Nuggets game.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
that's 13 of presumably 35-40 (5-10 sig minute PF guys off the bench)
I’d argue Nene is worse, Sheed is far worse (modern Sheed); but the rest you’re correct about….and I haven’t scoured for me. And well Odom’s much more gifted and has bigger games here and there on O, but far less consistent….which is why he’s been so frustrating before the Gasol trade…
That’s better than average…I’d say he’s probably 10th or thereabouts offensively…upper 75%….that’s better than we got now.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Troy Murphy.......no
Rasheed Wallace…… hell no, and he outscores Nene, West, Lewis, and Aldridge. Do i think these guys are better overall, probably, but head and shoulders offensively. No.
by BigBabyCollin on Dec 4, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
Well he is AMONGST
He’s not close to Dirk, but he’s better than average on that end….
And it’s not like Tyrus (Though he could be better we haven’t seen) is league avg offensively now, he’s just very good defensively and ok offensively—but improving).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I feel like that's really it though...
Neither of these guys will be Bulls NEXT year, and they need scoring help now. Harrington is a better scorer than Tyrus. That sucks, but it’s true.
I’m not happy about it, I like Tyrus and would like to see him stay, but we all know it won’t happen.
My overall point though is that can Harrington score with our coach/scheme (or sometimes lack of coach/scheme)?
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
I’m not happy about it, I’ve been a BIG T2 fan seeing all that upside that we never really let play throught he warts like we should (especially since in his rookie year he proved he was more ready than our 2 previous projects: Curry and CHandler) who we did nothing but play and watch as we sucked….
But oh well, if he’s going, it might as well be for someone who’s ok and who can help fill a need/void in our current team.
Frankly I wouldn’t give a rats ass if Al came and avg’d 15 pts….I think Al will require a cover because he can be dangerous (if left alone he’ll score 25 easy, if covered hard we ignore him and let Rose a more open path to the lane (where Rose’ll be better)…
That’s why I like it, not for Harrington, but hopefully for Rose, cuz getting Rose off will make everyone and the team better….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
How much of that is from playing with D'Antoni...
And his years in the run and gun of Golden State too?
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Well, he was about -0.5 before that
But he was also younger (I find that jumpshooting bigs develop into their late 20s) and rarely shot 3s. Since then he’s been making around 1.9/4.0 per game at a 38% clip. Some of that has to do with D’Antoni/Nellie running an offense that gives him open shots. But he still has to make them.
Regardless...
All that really proves is that he can shoot. Can he score from the PF position on other teams? I don’t really have much faith that VDN will be able to use him the same way that D’Antoni or Nellie did. Hell, I’ve seen Nellie use Steven Jackson as a center before, that doesn’t mean he’s the quickest center in the league.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder what Harrington's numbers might look like as a Bull
Looking at Stephen Jackson going from Nellieball to Larry Brown basketball is quite noticeable. Jackson loses a little ORTG due to fewer looks and assists, but his DRTG falls significantly.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Yay, Bulls fans were tired of Tyrus' stupid habit of dunking and blocking shots, and overall talent.
The fanbase is much more comfortable in rooting for a player who’s about as valuable as the guys you play with at Lifetime.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
hey hey
u have a lifetime membership too?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Dec 4, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that's necessary.
If they don’t get a big name guy, they’ll bring him back.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
If they signed Amare or Bosh, yeah and I wouldn't have minded.
Why would they have not re-signed him next summer if they completely whiffed on big FAs?
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 4, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Other team
Not int he max fa punch makes an offer on day 1, Max guys weight their options post July 8….Bulls don’t jump.
I think it’s very logical that Tyrus could get snatched because at least little old me has seen all his raw talent on both ends, athleticism, and can see that he’s already an above avg player statsitically despite being jerked around so often….and is 23…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I will say this much though...
If any team pays him 13 million I’ll be AMAZED.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Bulls aren't going to pay him $13M either
That’s a cap hold….a team might pay him $7-10M for 4-5 years…Bulls aren’t doing that…and he knows that….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Again...
I would be pretty shaky paying him that much too. Maybe 7, definitely not 10.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
But if you want to snag him...you overpay
And he’s gotten better, is actually already good as it is, and so young…he has potential to top $10M easy if he “gets it”, and at his age with his athleticism and tools, who knows…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
That's true. Most teams think they can "fix guys".
Shit, even the Bulls thought they could develop him even though they had little-to-no interest in developing him (outside of Skiles, I think).
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
The only thing that pisses me off about Ty
Is when he takes many jumpshots and playing to his strengths and RIP THE RIM DOWN.Other than that I like him
Kelly Dwyer
Bulls ruined Tyrus, probably for good, so why not?
Also makes the case that the Knicks are in better shape than we are. :-/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 2:06 PM CST reply actions
Classic.
Al Harrington? Feels like a Bull.
Doesn’t rebound, takes long shots, sometimes they go in. You notice the makes, and forget about the rest. Other than Flip Murray(notes), this guy is the biggest Bull that isn’t actually a Bull. He might never be a Bull, nothing is imminent and who knows what happens from here on out, but he’s a Bull.
But, he’s wrong on the Knicks. They have more cap space, but if we’re in agreement that a team has to be competitive to lure the FAs, there’s no advantage there. Can’t even add another talented piece over the summer because they have no 1st round pick. He’s right that Donnie Walsh has earned the benefit of the doubt, but it’s pretty crazy to write off any potential bumps in the road for the Knicks’ future.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 4, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
Agree on the Knicks better of point
What young talent do they have to play alongside imaginary Lebron/Melo(2011)? Daniel Gallinari, Jordan Hill, Wilson Chandler? I like a young unit of Deng Noah(the key) and Rose a lot more.
Mike Diantoni- This is the whole if Charlie Weis is an offensive-co. genius how did Pats set all scoring records after he left…. but once Shaq left how is Pheonix playing without Diantoni? – Looks like Nash is doing just fine. Maybe Nash is the offensive genius.
It was Mike's system that Nash is running
Nash became a 2 time all-star because the Suns had good young talent and Mike D’antoni brought his offensive system to the suns. to say that D’antoni had no influence on how Nash plays is wrong.
i think the issue is the organization. i really dont think the bulls managment thinks in terms of championship quality rosters
vdn has too much say to be hoenst. even though he is recent. for him its all about who can get him some good production. and hoenstly, if tyrus isn’t gonna be played at all this year then al harriginton helps them win now somewhat.
this is in stark contrast to the knicks… who are ONLY thinking about a winning championship roster and could care less about the team now.
Don't see how the Bulls could be in better shape
They’re in position to maybe snatch 2 of the better free agents this offseason, have a good coach, have a high draft pick in 2010, and David Lee/Danilo Gallinari for some decent frontcourt pounding. Amazing how things have played out since Thomas left their organization. And by amazing I mean not a horrible transaction after another.
I guess Curry is there for at least another year
Not like that matters, his fatass is Sweetney’ing his way out of the league.
they don't have their 2010 draft pick
The stink of Thomas still lingers.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
Dwyer hit it on the head
They might as well get a guy who doesn’t need to develop even if he isn’t as talented because they aren’t going to develop the talent anyway. The whole thing about yanking him regardless of the way he plays has always killed me because for some reason he was singled out. James Johnson pay attention because you’re next!
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
I couldn't give two shits about James Johnson
what’s the point of getting invested?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
A little piece of you died today didn't it?
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
nah, again: July 1st.
changed everything.
Besides, James Johnson is like Tyrus….except drafted way lower, older, and not nearly as talented. So couple that with the upcoming lack of development and bench burial, I won’t be leading that bandwagon. Doug can take that one :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
What about Jordan Hill?
Currently once Hill heals the Knicks will have Tyrus, Danilo, Lee and Hill…
Sounds like Lee is definitely out.
i want to like jordan hill
i like him in 2k for sure, but he hasnt played enough in the league for me to determine if the hill in 2k = the hill in real life….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Perhaps this trade would actually give us more flexibility for a possible deadline trade.
If Harrington’s value is stronger than TT’s, and they are both basically expiring, then maybe Harrington and other players for a bigger name (Bosh, Spurs player if they somehow tank, David West, etc.) would give us more than TT/Jerome and other players for the star.
If you’re NO, do you want to eat up two roster spots in a trade for David West if you have to? Not when one of them is Jerome James. You’d probably rather just take the same value of the expiring cap space in Al Harrington and he might even fit better with their team.
KC finally responded to my email
I asked him if the story was true last night and how it saved the Bulls cap space . . .
It’s true. Doesn’t mean it will happen but it’s true.
Doesn’t get more cap space. Just a better player.
Just a better player? Can’t you just see the stings on this silly puppet?
Harrington can be seen as better
that’s not crazy.
And since the 2010 impact is negligible, he better be better. Or at least better than Taj, since Tyrus is apparently in the great coach Vinny’s doghouse.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
I have read nearly all 500 comments on this thread...
Including the long debate between fundamentally and yao on whether or not Harrington was among the league’s best offensive PF’s…I do not recall anyone claiming that Tyrus Thomas is a better basketball player than Al Harrington…do you care to make that case?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Better defense and worse offense. It's probably a wash. Just a lateral move that won't
do much, besides ship out a young player for an old one. I think people are more upset that the Bulls never developed Tyrus in the first place than his ultimate shipping out for Al freakin’ Harrington.
In the context of this year, operating under the (proper) assumption that Tyrus was gone anyway, then this trade isn’t good or bad, it’s pretty neutral. As a sign of organizational (in)competence? It’s another damning sign that this organization doesn’t develop guys at all and apparently doesn’t draft players it really likes all that much (makes no sense to me, but hey whatever).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
I think we tend to overrate Tyrus defensively...
He is a good shotblocker, but finds himself out of position frequently…
Young for old is not necessarily a bad thing…a team needs some veteran leadership…
So, you are not saying that Tyrus is a better player than Harrington, but you think it is a wash…anyone think Tyrus is a better basketball player than Al Harrington?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
it goes beyond that
i think a lot of people always assumed that if Tyrus was traded, it would at least be a part of something bigger. is Al Harrington better than Tyrus? who cares. the last time the bulls got something valuable for a high draft pick (and i’m talking top 4 here) was the Eddy Curry trade.
apparently not that valuable since 1/2 of the Eddy Curry trade is apparently
going to net us…1/2 season of Al Harrington?
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 5, 2009 1:18 AM CST up reply actions
Hunter, Miller, Pargo, Hinrich, Deng aren't enough????
I think most people underestimate Thomas’s contributions. They see big blocks and then him being out of position, and they reduce his entire defensive contributions down to just those two areas… They ignore the people that don’t even take shots when he’s standing in the lane waiting… They ignore the shots that a LeBron James or Chris Bosh miss because he forced them into a bad shot. They ignore that he can defend all five positions (if not spectacularly at all of them). They ignore that he’s actually in position 95% of the time and heard Del Negro, apparently great evaluator of X’s & O’s, say he’s out of position so they say “frequently” which is about as dumb of a thing as I’ve ever heard… And they ignore that Bulls had zero defensive scheme last year, and that the only way to learn how to play team defense is to… practice team defense.
Tyrus Thomas isn’t all world defender but I think we tend to underrate him because we suck as scouts and don’t really know what the hell we’re talking about.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
He was an all world defender as a rookie when Skiles' scheme was in place.
I wish we had a real coach.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 5, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
tyrus is
very disruptive on defense, in ways most fans don’t recognize.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
Okay.
If I accept your premise that we underrate Tyrus’ defensive contributions (I don’t), do you think he is a better basketball player than Al Harrington?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Also another funny thing regarding me emailing KC . . . .
I emailed him this a while back too..
ME : KC, whenever us fans get a glimpse into the coaching huddle, all we hear is VDN screaming things such as, “Run, be aggressive” over and over again. Does this team actually run plays or is everything set on motivational cliches?
KC responded with this . . .
I can’t print this because I’m laughing too hard. I’d go with the latter.
WOW
by Option27 on Dec 4, 2009 3:16 PM CST reply actions 13 recs
LMAO
That’s a great answer
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
rec it if you like it kids
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I don’t see how this could hurt us.I mean at best (atleast with the bulls ) T T is a role player and ty avg is 19 10 I mean that’s not so bad.
Matt Moore thinks were being negative Nancy's
Blog-A-Bull has yet to formally weigh in on the subject, but their readers are predictably negative about it as I would expect Blog-A-Bull to be, since they could have cancer and be cured miraculously and would then complain about all the time they spent thinking they were going to die or the hospital food or something.
yea, i guess we should be more cheery that this front office is pissing away 2/5 of last year’s good young corps and that we so monumentally failed to develop a promising young player that we end up (potentially) trading him for 3/4 of a season of al harrington.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
Who the hell is Matt Moore?
Its not that Harrington won’t help the Bull this year. Its that they once again are looking to throw away young talent for a short term fix. And to top it off, they haven’t even given that young talent a chance to develop. If Matt Moore, has something to say about this site, let him logon and voice his opinion.
In the words of Sapp – Put on a Jersey!
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
He's a general NBA blogger. Writes some funny stuff sometimes. Contributes to Y! sometimes.
He’s a Bulls fan I think.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
he's not a bulls fan
i think he’s a grizzlies fan. his site is hardwoodparoxysm and is on the truehoop network.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
he's a 'liberated' fan
as Free Darko would puke.
But Matt’s a good dude, he invited me on his podcast. I will make him wish he had cancer of the ears I’ll whine so much!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
yea i generally enjoy his work as well
just let me be bitter in peace damnit.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
I will be entering into the 'liberated' fan mode if 2010 is a bust and JR is still running things.
I’ll remain attached to some of the Bulls’ guys, obviously, but I can’t take being this die hard for a team whose ownership doesn’t give a crap about me.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
He also apparently has never watched Al Harrington play because he thinks he's a low post scorer.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
i saw that too
but i cut him some slack because his point was more that harrington has taken and made a good amount of shots close to the basket this year. the infamous phrase “low post scorer” probably wasn’t correct there, but his point seemed ok other than that.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
In his defense
Harrington did show some low post skills when he was on the Pacers when Isiah was their coach.
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
Well, he is an oversized SG that posts up every once in awhile.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Ya I guess,but it’s hindsight 20/20 I mean really TT has had time to develop into what ever he has to be.Now you can blame are organization or TT or whoever but 4 years is plenty of time to do w/e you want in the NBA.This is not baseball where you hit 30 and your still learning the game and your in triple A after you get drafted by your team.
There are actually many things about this trade I like...
And probably more that I hate, but hey, we suck (particularly at scoring) and we need to change something.
I found this tidbit in that link pretty funny though…
“You can run Gibson at the 4 and Harrington at the 5 in a small-ball lineup which won’t completely decimate you on both ends of the floor, allowing you to rest both Noah and Miller for a fourth quarter surge/lockdown.”
A – Who wants to see Brad Miller in the 4th quarter anyway.
B – Harrington can play the 5 about as well as Taj can play the 4. Shaky at best.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Let me see if I can get this damn thing work...
"You can run Gibson at the 4 and Harrington at the 5 in a small-ball lineup which won’t completely decimate you on both ends of the floor, allowing you to rest both Noah and Miller for a fourth quarter surge/lockdown."
Ah yes.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
boy and when i'm making the trade
i love when it leaves us options “which won’t completely decimate you.”
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
especially when it would decimate you.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
oh no. Don't give VDN any ideas
before we know it, Noah will be losing center minutes to Harrington.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Matt was right
When he referred to the Rose, Deng and Noah as the only Bulls who mattered anymore.
I was silly to throw Tyrus in that mix
There's no maybe to it
The writing was on the wall during the playoffs.
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
yup.
and a coach who won’t be here next year either made that call. Awesome.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
(made the final call, anyway)
Again, as much as I hoped for a breakout year from Tyrus, it was for maybe him to be traded in February. If Reinsdorf wouldn’t pay Gordon it’s pretty unlikely he’d pay Thomas.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
+Hunter and +Gray
Although we’re still only putting three “players” on the court.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
reuniting Horford and Noah would give the Bulls the best young frontline in the league.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 4, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
Sure but keeping him next to Josh Smith is even better.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
I'll take Oden and Aldridge
more complete players.
by BigBabyCollin on Dec 4, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
TT = Milton Bradley?
Both feel they are victims of their respective systems
Both have a group of fervently tolerant supporters who just wanna ‘give him one more chance so at least he can build some trade value’
Both are productive players (when they are actually on the field/court)
Both have pissed off their organizations and a majority of their fan bases
Both are very talented players who routinely underperform their potential
Both will be run out of Chicago in highly divisive/controversial trades (by teams with poor ability to identify and retain talent)
Both will be journeyman players that will cash in on teams giving them contracts on the notion that ’this might be the year they break out ’
Comparing Bradley to Tyrus is an insult to both of them.
And I’ve yet to hear Tyrus actually play the “woe is me” card once in 3 years.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 4, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
whether or not he feels that way, I don't remember him crying to the media about it.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 4, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
i never made that claim...
but it’s clear he, like Bradley were not put in positions to succeed by their systems (by that, i mean coaches)
Plus
Wasn’t Tyrus a winner of some NBA community cares type award this fall/summer???
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I believe so...
For work in Louisiana I think.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think I said either guy was an asshole
off-court or in their personal lives. I’ve read MB is actually a pretty nice guy when the cameras are off.
I don't follow baseball much
But Bradley’s had issues everywhere it seems (really bad ones this year) and that haunts him. I don’t think I’d expect to see him get an award like Tyrus got…that’s all, and I don’t know if that really can piss off the Bulls, etc…
But I stretched with that response, I was more agreeing with the insult to T2.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Is it
possible to instead trade TT and Fatty for David Lee? I mean he’s what we really need. Put him and Noah at the 4-5 and you got yourself a front court with some bite. I hate Al Notsharington. The guys a straight chucker. I mean how serious are the Knicks about lee if they only lock the guy up for a year. maybe he can be had. Would lessen the sting of loosing TT for me as far as im concerned. FYI i dont know the contracts or numbers but just throwing this thought out there.
Yeah I would want Lee also from a basketball standpoint
But from a 2010 standpoint I just hope this works. Maybe Gar has word from Bosh, Wade or James that they will sign with the Bulls 2010?
Homecoming
Doubt that seriously...
I would hope that if Bosh, Wade, or James even ride in the same elevator with Gar he has the good sense to just talk about the weather.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Lee's on the QO
so he’d have to approve a deal and give up his bird rights (situation Gordon was in last year)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
I never understood why nobody wanted David Lee this summer. I mean, what did he sign for, like 7m? Would he not have taken like 4 years, 35m or something? He’s a very good rebounder and can score. I wouldn’t mind seeing him at PF. Maybe he’s not a great fit since he doesn’t have much range (similar to Noah) but he should have a place in this league for more than a 7m, one year contract.
I guess it is possible his agent said “10m a year for 4 years to even talk to us” and that’s why he didn’t receive an offer, opting to take less money and try again next year, but I didn’t hear any of that this summer. There was no way NYK were matching anything reasonable for Lee, I doubt they match 4 years 28 million even.
The only thing i like about this trade
is that it shows managment is somewhat aware of our needs, we lack pf depth, and we need guys who can shoot the 3…al harington gives us that much…since tyrus thomas wont play much we probably dont lose much…my fear is what else al harrington brings to this team…this cannot have extra baggage…btw can we package pargo for something also?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
yea, for pargo included
maybe new york throws in a few cupcakes and some frozen icees
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 4, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
i like icees
not too keen on cupcakes though…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Maybe Tyrus can
sell his condo back to the guy he bought it from – Pargo. I like TT and would hate to see him traded.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Me too.
I hope the Bulls do it for his sake. Trade him to the Thunder for Jeff Green—he works hard, he’s cheap for another year. Throw in a 1st rounder. Whoopee! (kidding)
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
ya know, if the Bulls miss the playoffs
what if they land a high-lottery pick again? Oh noes, the unexpectedly high cap hold!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
Quick thought of the day: Let Thomas shoot 3's.
You know he wants to. I doubt he sucks. He might catch fire for a few weeks, have a yearly 3FG% of 35%. jackpot!!! High trade value. I mean, he shot 37% from 15 ft out last year.
When’s he due back?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
ask D'Antoni
:-/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions
man, could imagine Gordon and Thomas in a D'Antoni system?
I get so frustrated by this owner. I’m glad the moves they’re making are making it easier to dislike them.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
And then the gift of Rose for the icing on the cake...
Man we’d be awesome….hell Deng would be doing his same thing too….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Right.... D'Antoni w/
Rose – Hinrich
Gordon – Hinrich – Budinger
Deng – Budinger
Thomas – Blair
Noah – Miller
would be one of the most exciting teams in the NBA. Maybe it’s not one that ultmately wins a championship, but in five years, Rose will be 26, the long contracts of Deng, Gordon and Hinrich would be off the books and the Bulls could try to build another contender. In the meantime, instead of sucking ass and looking like poo, they’d be pretty damn exciting to watch and making it to the conference semis regular and to the finals here and there.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
EXACTLY!
That would be a ridiculously fun team for phase one of Derrick. That’s what the Bulls should be doing their best to do. Get guys in to make the team entertaining and get Rose in a spot to be close for his first years….then when he’s through his rookie contract, get him the guys to win it all through his prime! I mean we have 5 f-ing years until then, if not 6….I don’t want to spoil that.
In other news, I’m totally off the VDN bandwagon after the last game. It’s one thing for us to be in it until the late 3rd or 4th against the Nuggets, Lakers, Blazers where our injuries expose Gar’s depth issues on this team….but to be out of it with absolutely no fight against a defenseless Raptors team 6 minutes into the game….that’s Boylan material.
We should be too quick to not score more than 78 pts against a team that struggles mightily defensively….we’re not right.
I hate that we quit on coaches…..hate it, and am pissed off at this piece of shit team right now.
Keep Rose and Noah (and Tyrus), trade the rest of the f-ers….and let’s get a real coach.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
better yet
make him a point guard, let him run the offense and make plays for others (sigh)….listen, all we ever needed from TT was to tip offensive rebounds, run up and down the court, block shots, and score in transition and alley-oops…when a guy plays outside of his game, its a horrendous sight…Even his 15 footer scares the shit out of me until it goes in (rarely).
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 4, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
That's good that it goes in as often as other jump-shooting PF's then.
You’re an idiot to think that’s “all [they] ever needed from [Thomas] was to tip offensive rebounds, run up and down the court, block shots, and score in transition and alley-oops.” You don’t draft a guy No. 2 overall to do that.
Sorry for the brutal truth.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
see this is sort of the problem, yours is a common opinion and why i would argue the bulls didnt
actually have HIGH expectations for thomas— they wanted a rich mans joel anthony. and the org. certainly didnt treat him like they expected big things out of him. if you are a 3rd grade teacher and you have a really talented student, would it be wise for you to say, “ok buddy, we are going to work for about half the day, the other half you’ll be out back picking dandylions, and all i really want you to do is get a good handle on rudimentary multiplication”? doubtful, if indeed you are interested in getting something out of that talent.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
good point
the Bulls never pushed Tyrus to do any more than be a minature Ben Wallace. Part of the rift came because he wanted to do more.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
They drafted him to do more, they just didn't realize it.
heh
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
horrible idea
harrington plays no defense. why do you think the knicks are last in blocks per game? plus we already have bad weak-side defense with tyrus out, this would just kill our defensive philosophy
You guys couldn't be more wrong about TT
This guy is a bust. He got 4 years to develop and didn’t. He got beat out by Taj because he doesn’t have a lick of basketball sense. Doesn’t even know how to use his strengths. And is lazy as hell on the court.
Dunks and blocks do not equate to talent or athleticism. Maybe you guys forget the numerous times he misjudged the ball off the rim, or went for an impossible block, only to leave his man for an easy put back. Or how he drifts defensively, and can’t anchor against a bigger player.
THATS WHY HE DOESN"T PLAY.
He sometimes makes a jumper, or a good interior pass, I’ll give him that.
Honestly, Taj would probably beat him in a game of one on one.
Incorrect. Is he inconsistent? Yes. He is a bust, no. He has shown that he can be a difference maker. The Spurs game we won was won by Tyrus. Taj wouldn’t have sparked the team like Ty did. I’m no Ty apologist, but we knew he was raw as hell and the org did no extra work to help him develop properly. Look how the Lakers take their time with Bynum and have him with a HALL OF FAMER while we bring in the likes of Mike Brown and Randy Myers to teach.
Some of the blame is on Ty and lot is with our lack of player development. We can’t even develop Rose properly who is almost a can’t miss prospect.
Hinrich, Duhon, and Rose (along with the head coaches) haven't done a good job utilizing the big men.
Look at Tyson Chandler when he went to the Hornets with Chris Paul and Byron Scott.
The Bulls need to quit saying “potential” whenever they bring in a young guy, only to bench him for inexperience.
I’m starting to hate my favorite team because of this kind of management.
And look at Tyson Chandler now. He is averaging 6 and 6
perhaps his offensive success, which was really pretty meager, had more to do with Paul than it did the failures of the guards he played with in Chicago. Paul has the ability to make bad offensive big men look good.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 4, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
you think thats air your breathing now?
sorry couldnt resist…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
wow
Harrington wants no part of Bulls trade
If Al Harrington is getting traded to the Chicago Bulls he’ll go kicking and screaming.
"I love New York," Harrington said today. "I love being a Knick. I told ya’ll that. We’ll see."
The Knicks are reportedly interested in Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas and could trade Harrington to complete the deal. Jerome James would be shipped to New York to make the deal work under the salary cap.
If a deal happens don’t expect it to happen any time soon. Thomas has a broken arm and is out at least another two weeks.
"Donnie (Walsh) hasn’t told me anything," Harrington said. "Me and him have a pretty good relationship so until he tells me I don’t think anything is serious. He wouldn’t trade me before he gave me a heads up. He did that when I went to Golden State and when I went to Atlanta. We’ve got that kind of relationship."
If the Knicks go out and get Thomas what does that say about rookie Jordan Hill, the team’s lottery pick? Other than experience what does Thomas do that Hill can’t? Sounds like if the Knicks trade for Thomas they are admitting that passing on Brandon Jennings was a huge mistake.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
McGraw!
http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/3028
But there was nothing cooking between the Bulls and Knicks as of Friday morning.
The whole idea of this trade doesn’t make sense for the Bulls. Harrington would add some additional scoring, which the Bulls could use. But one of the Yahoo story’s theories was the Bulls have already found an able replacement for Thomas at power forward in Taj Gibson.
If anything, these past few weeks have shown that the Bulls desperately need more help at power forward. Gibson has been a terrific for a rookie drafted No. 26, but he’s clearly not ready to be an NBA starter at this point in his career. He’s in frequent foul trouble and probably doesn’t have the strength or athleticism right now to be a consistent rebounder.
Technically, Harrington could play power forward, but he’s become more of a shooter in recent years. Thomas should be a far better option defensively.
This was published before Taj’s nice shooting night Friday, but yeah.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 5, 2009 8:29 AM CST reply actions
as usual mcgraw is awesome
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
McGraw is one of the only beat guys that both gets it and has the balls to right what he believes.
I think KC gets it, by and large, but a lot of the times isn’t going to actually state his opinions on things. He usually shirks by saying something about what the Bulls’ org thinks. For instance, when he called Taj a viable option, he couched it in the terms that Bulls’ org thought he was a viable option, IIRC.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 5, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
I have a possible trade idea, but I don't know how well it is for BOTH teams.
Need thoughts from people.
I believe on 12/25/09, David Lee becomes eligible for trade. Therefore, what about the following 2 step trade:
1) Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James (and possibly our 1st or 2nd round draft pick) for David Lee and Danilo Gallinari
2) James Johnson to Knicks by use of trade exception from Quentin Richardson
hahaha, there's no way they part with David Lee and Gallo. They are two of their very best players.
Gallo especially is a lights out shooting big man, perfect for the D’Antoni system.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 5, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
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