Official Tracy McGrady Thread
by chgobr on Dec 28, 2009 9:20 PM CST
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PrintT-Mac is a goner. The AP is reporting Monday night that McGrady is requesting a trade. Houston is not going to play him the rest of the season. They need a Center. Brad Miller plus Salmons or Jerome James works on the trade machine.
Pluses:
1- Lose Salmon’s uncertainty re opting out
2- If, a big if, T-Mac regains his ability to play we could make a nice run to end the season and go into the playoff with momentum
3- T-Mac can open up the floor for Rose
Negatives:
1- Losing Miller makes us vulnerable if Noah goes down.
2- I think Rose is really progressing and having T-Mac want to dominate the ball can mess up his development
3- The team could collapse if T-Mac cannot play which is definitely a possibility based on his history.
Does this make sense for us?
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Now that the Rockets are insistent on trading him
I’m on board. I don’t think he can be much worse than Salmons, so i’d happily give up Salmons and Miller if the Rockets were desperate enough to take them.
How bad could it be?
Say McGrady goes down, we still can trot out Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, Noah, and have Gibson, JJ, Pargo and possibly another player from Houston come off of the bench. All we lose are two guys who are playing piss poor ball at the moment in Salmons and Miller, so the team shouldn’t really be affected by the loss.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
by dakoose on Dec 29, 2009 1:13 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
ouch
Mike (Chicago): TMac is a lot of money but what about the Bulls? Seems like John Salmons is on the outs and the bulls prefer hinrich over him. With the Rockets needing a Center. Would a trade of Miller, Salmons and Jerome James work? Seems like a trade like that makes perfect sense now that Tyrus is back and bulls dont seem to high on salmons anymore.
Chris Sheridan: Salmons’ money is a deal-killer there, and Miller is done. David Anderson is twice the player that Brad is at this point in their careers, so I see this one making no sense for the Rockets.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
Great pick-up
Houston may now be more desperate to find a trade. I believe McGrady will be traded before the deadline.
Yeah Houston is not going to take Salmons off of our hands
They are not going to look at it like we are doing us a favor, they are going to look at it as if they are doing us a favor by giving us an expiring contract.
Three team trade would probably be the best option with us giving up players, draft pick(s), and cash.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
*them a favor
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
...
“Whoever gets me is going to get a hungry … player,” McGrady told the Chronicle. "I don’t care if I go to the damn moon. It doesn’t matter. I’ve been hungry since I came back from my surgery.
“I rededicated myself, refocused, moved to Chicago, worked out the whole summer there. It was every day just grinding, just pushing. I’m not even supposed to be playing right now, so that really tells you how hard I’ve been working. I wasn’t supposed to be playing until January or February. If you asked anybody who had [microfracture surgery] it probably took them a year to really feel full strength. I feel fine right now.”
Also read that he is willing to sign for cheap next year for a contender. Dudes hungry, :P
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
31 and over the hill ....?
and i’m sure you were saying Grant Hill would never play good ball again
It could be worse - at least we arent starting Randy Brown, Chris Carr, Matt Maloney, Dickey Simpkins, and Rusty LaRue
Maybe G.Hill is a bad example
my point being hes only playing for a half a year – i dont think he’s lost it thaaatt much
It could be worse - at least we arent starting Randy Brown, Chris Carr, Matt Maloney, Dickey Simpkins, and Rusty LaRue
Hmm...
McGrady, Budinger for Deng, Salmons, Hinrich?
I think in Deng, Houston gets the piece they’re looking for. We ship out all our bad post-2010 contracts while bringing in a big name player to fill seats for the rest of this year, get a young 3pt shooter, and assure ourselves a top 10 draft pick. We can talk Tyrus extension asap and still have the money for a max next year, or we could bring back McGrady if he looks good. Rose/Budinger/JJ/Tyrus/Taj/Noah/top10pick is our new core.
by YaoPau on Dec 29, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They have Ariza/Battier platoon at SF, both for cheap. Why would they want Deng? And Budinger is T-Mac’s replacement so they won’t ship him out.
Ariza starts at SG as it is
and Battier won’t be around for much longer, he’s already 31. Deng’s a guy they could start at SF for years.
by YaoPau on Dec 29, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It would be nice
but do either team have the balls to do it?
Battier will be effective until his late 30s…just like Bowen and Battier is more athletic than Bowen. Also Ariza is really a SF, he is playing SG for now and he will be the starter at SF for the next few years and Battier will back him up. Budinger is going to take over at SG with Jermaine Taylor backing him up. I just don’t see the need for Deng in Houston.
I'm not sure Battier is more athletic than any NBA SF :)
Dude’s just tall and smart.
Bowen’s an interesting case though, as he played just 2500 minutes of NBA ball before the age of 29. Comparatively, Battier played 15000 minutes before age 29. Overall, Battier’s played 22000 minutes compared to Bowen’s 24000 career. So it makes sense to me that Bowen’s career lasted longer than most SFs.
As for Budinger taking over at SG, eh. He was a second round pick who hasn’t been great so far, and for a team like Houston with title aspirations before Yao gets old, I have my doubts that Budinger is their answer for future starting SG.
by YaoPau on Dec 29, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Budinger actually was playing decent and was actually considered a first round talent as well. He has shown he can pitch in at least 10 pts a game and can hit the 3…he’s been playing better than Salmons. You still miss the point…why would Houston want Deng at 11 mill a year when they have two competent SFs. they wouldn’t
McGrady's contract gives them nothing
Obviously, if, say, Minnesota offers Al Jefferson for McGrady’s contract, then all this is moot. I’m guessing that doesn’t happen (the Bulls have expirings too, think if we could trade Miller + Tyrus for a 24 year old 19ppg scorer we’d have floated that idea already?) so I think Deng could be an option for them.
You keep saying the Rockets have two competent SFs, but if that’s the case, they’d also have zero competent SGs. Move Ariza to SG, trade Battier while his value is still high, and Deng fits in easily at SF. Or the Rockets could keep Battier and play Deng occasionally at PF to replace Scola’s minutes after his contract is up this offseason. Plenty of ways to do this.
this would be terrible.
rose/tmac/jj/tyrus/noah as a starting 5. we’d average 70 points a game. i do like the idea of getting budinger in the tmac deal though. that guy can play and give us a perimeter threat.
I all for McGrady to Chicago
I know hes not the TMac of old but lets be serious, we have nothing to lose at this point.
Salmons is god awful to watch, I rather have Ron Mercer back on the team.
T-Mac could at least space the floor out – hit a more consistent jump shot – not bad when the bulls are one of the worst shooting teams in the league – and like he said “he’s hungry” – i like it in every way – financialy and I think he brings a lot of confidence to this team that could really benefit the rest of the guys.
Clearly Rose likes having someone to pass to – at this point in time – without BG – rose doesnt have a sure shot guy -
McGrady would be a great addition for Rose
McGrady passes the ball. Yes, he does like to dominate the ball and McGrady isn’t likely to run around screens for catch and shoots, but he won’t have to with a creator like Rose. Ditto for Rose. McGrady can create as well and Rose can play off the ball just fine as he did all of last season.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
McGrady is toast
He shot 43%, 4.4 rbd/game and 15 pts/game the last time he was healthy.
That is BAD Deng numbers from last year.
Deng’s numbers from last year are better.
Deng was 46%, 6.0 rbds/game and 14 pts/game LAST year!!! That is better than Mcgrady’s.
Sometimes fans can be blind and not see the obvious. If he could still play, he would be playing for Houston.
by Fastbreak on Dec 29, 2009 9:28 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Starting with 10 points
McGrady’s contract is worth 7 of those points to us and his actual skills are worth 3 points to us.
If McGrady sucks then he sucks with a big fat expiring deal. If he’s good then he’s good with a big fat expiring deal.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 29, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If the Bulls were playing good basketball okay.
But i think you shouldnt be blind to the fact that obviously bulls suck right now…absolutley suck.
He comes off the books at the end of the year…Bulls obv wont resign him and we are gettin a player who would immediatley become a part of the offense – where as in Houston they slowly pushed him out of the offense, thus the shit numbers…and thus the reason they dont want him…they had younger guys capable of better play …. the bulls dont have that, unless u like John Salmons brickin up mid range jump shots -
if anything T-mac demands attention from the D – hes an established scorer – and hes like what 31…u think his game is over already?? I take T-Mac any day of the week over Salmons or Hinrich starting at the SG…..specially when hes playing with a PG like Rose who can create easy buckets for his team mates.
It could be worse - at least we arent starting Randy Brown, Chris Carr, Matt Maloney, Dickey Simpkins, and Rusty LaRue
by markoni22 on Dec 29, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Make the move if you can
Its all about cap space, right?
this would be a dream.
salmons and miller are non-factors at this point. As much as I like BRad, I think his age is really showing. He’s going to turn into the big-man’s linsday hunter soon enough, and I’d rather use himn to ensure Salmons opts out than let him reduce to nothing on the bench. I also think it would be interesting to see how Rose plays with a ball-dominant, superstar big shooting guard.
Watching Aaron Gray could be painful, but watching Salmons is already painful.
Dallas
We could make a 3 team deal for T-Mac with Dallas… I doubt the teams would agree, but this works:
Bulls get
T-Mac
S. Williams (from Dallas)
Houston gets:
Miller
Humphres
Pargo
Beaubois
Dallas gets:
Salmons
Dallas doesn’t lose anything of value other than a prospect in Beaubois. We would throw in next year’s draft choice too.
Bulls get T-Mac and his big expiring deal, (I don’t know if this puts us in the luxury tax or not, in which case the cheap JR would not do the deal). Williams is OK, but a back of the bench guy.
Houston buys high on Humphres and gets usefull bench parts for someone they’re not going to play for the rest of the year.
According to ESPN -Chris Broussard
Rockets are only going to trade T-Mac to get an all-star level talent or someone that can develop into an all-star. Rockets aren’t desperate. They need a center? Hayes at 6’6 is a better center than Miller right now at 7 feet. They are 18-13 right now without T-Mac or a “center”. So they don’t need to get something out of his deal. They can let it expire and sign someone in the offseason. Someone like Tyrus Thomas who the Bulls would be afraid to match because they want cap space to sign a big FA. Which is why I think the Bulls need to trade Tyrus. Otherwise they are going to lose him for nothing. I have no faith that this organization can get a fair contract with Tyrus. Package Tyrus and Kirk for a deal for Al Jefferson.
well than I guess they aren't going to trade T-Mac
because no one is sending them an all-star or young talent for T-Mac. I think Broussard’s report is bullshit. No way the Rockets could expect that much for McGrady. If they do, than they really have no intention of trading him at all.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 29, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree!
If I remember correctly the Cris Broussard piece was before McGrady’s situation deteriorated signifcantly over the past 24 hours. I see Houston taking the best offer.
You will be surprised what an expiring contract can get you.
Look at what Chandler was almost traded for last year.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
The Bulls have almost $20 million in expiring contracts
What can they get? Why is T-Mac so much better than all the other expiring contracts around the league?
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 29, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
With an expiring contract or more
you can wait until options open up. If teams decide to move players that want to get moved or will not come back next year then you would have the luxury of offering an expiring contract or more to the team with a prospect. Boozer, Bosh, Stat are all players teams are watching.
Teams in financial trouble (Hornets) might be forced to move talent for expiring contracts. Sooner or later the Knicks will need to make a decision on Lee. There are a lot of options if you have an expiring deal. Since McGrady makes 23,239,561 and will come off the books all at once, it’s probably one of the biggest contracts you can get.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Actually...
TMEC has the largest salary in the NBA, so is is the biggest contract you can get.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
You aren't understanding me
What makes TMac’s expiring contract more valuable than all the other expiring contracts in the NBA. Yes, he makes the most money in the NBA, but you have to match the $23 million in any deal, which isn’t easy. You basically have to send out 2 or 3 guys to get 1 T Mac. Its hard for teams to find the deals to match that contract. I still don’t see how TMac’s contract is more valuable than Miller/James/Pargo/Tyrus etc. or any other collection of expiring contracts floating around the league.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 29, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
They are a valuable.
But if it comes down to having 20 mil or 23 mil coming off the books 23 mil will win. Not only that but not a lot of teams have a collection of contracts like that, now Houston will be a contender in trades right with the Bulls.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
not for the bulls
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Three team trades are the big thing
with McGrady’s contract. As said earlier, you have to put a lot of players together to add up to $23 million, that’s easier spread across three or even four teams.
But those kinds of deals require a plugged-in, creative and aggressive front office….
Exactly
I would rather have several smaller expiring contracts than one hugh expiring. More flexibility.
id disagree....
say you are in the position the bulls are in, where you basically have the minimum number of players that you can have on a team. If you have several expiring contracts, then you are forced into a bad position. You cant sign anyone, even for the minimum, until you sign your big free agent first…..most likely the big free agent takes most or all of your extra cap space….so say your the bulls, you have brad, jerome james, pargo, gray, and for the sake of argument lets say salmons….they all expire…thats 5 players gone……you sign your max player, and are left with little in cap space, but still are short 4 players…so you end up signing 4 crap players for the bare minimum. Ultimately that leaves you with a real thin bench….
For the rockets however, they keep their entire roster, which is pretty decent, and then they take mcgradys contract and sign a free agent with that, they keep their entire bench mainly intact, while adding another player thats really good…
Ultimately the only time this kind of thing wouldnt work is with like the lakers, who are so over the cap that even if kobe opted out, they still wouldnt have enough money to sign a talent thats considerably good..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Dec 29, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why wouldn't they hold out?
They are winning. They apparently know exactly what type of player it takes to win. Why take on someone that won’t really help them? Why take Brad Miller and Salmons if they don’t get a pick or something really good, too?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i don't understand your response
they can hold out all they want, they aren’t getting a high level player with a good contract for McGrady. Al Jefferson? KMart? What team is going to trade a really good player or prospect for a guy coming off micro-fracture surgery. If the Rockets get a good player for T-Mac why couldn’t the Bulls get one for all their expiring contracts. Or any other team for that matter. They are bluffing to raise his value.
The best deal I see is Randolph/Magette/filler but I’m not sure Golden State would do that deal. I just don’t see a deal out there where a team gives up a future piece for McGrady, unless the Rockets are willing to take on some bad contracts.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 29, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
My point is that the expiring contract is more valuable to them...
….than a longer contract for someone who isn’t very good. Isn’t Randolph that type of “young talent”? Wouldn’t they rather go after someone like David Lee in the off-season than take someone worse than Randolph? I would.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The Wizards offered Arenas
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 29, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't take a chance on Arenas if I were Houston
I would if I were New York though. It occurred to me that Eddy Curry + Jared Jeffries + Jordan Hill to the Wiz for Arenas would actually generate an extra $3M in cap space for the Knicks next year.
And may be Arenas would be a selling point. Or maybe he’d be a mega-disaster. It’d be fun to watch, wouldn’t it?
Why would the WI
want 3 worthless players, Jordan Hill(future bust), Eddy Curry(can’t rebound & soft), Jared Jefferies(one of the most useless players in the league, and his D is overrated)
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 29, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Because
1. The Wizards would reportedly love to be done with Arenas and those guys have much shorter contracts. Curry and Jeffries expire after next year, thus relieving them of $63M million in salary they owe to Arenas over the three years that follow that.
2. Hill is a lottery pick in his rookie year, so maybe he can play since D’Antoni just hasn’t worked well with young guys.
All in all, it’s just a question of whether the Wizards want to get rid of Arenas. They’re rumored to want to, and this is the only remotely plausible deal I can think of.
by Sports2 on Dec 29, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe the Rockets would just prefer a buyout, but I don't see why
Which would kind of suck, since I’d guess TMac would promptly go off and play for the Celtics and kick ass.
Still, I don’t see why they’d turn their nose up at a potentially useful player like Miller instead of a buyout. At least Miller potentially gets you something for your money. A buyout will probably save them very little and get them absolutely nothing.
In any case, I don’t see any team being willing to trade a truly valuable player. Perhaps if the Rockets were willing to take back a long-term salary like Curry the Knicks would include a guy like Chandler or Hill, but I’m not even sure of that.
TMAC to Dallas or Denver!!!
Zoinks!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Houston will take the best offer by the trade deadline
The Rockets want something for T-Mac. I read somewhere yesterday that they absollutely do not want to buy him out. Sorry cannot remember the link. T-Mac apparently is never going to play for Houston again. Anything the Rockets get is better than nothing. If they want expiring Miller plus Jerome James works. If they feel there is value in Salmons they can have him. I do not believe they will get any short-term or good young player for him. There is no way anyone will give them a draft pick, though you never know how stupid some of these GMs can be. Houston takes the best offer by the trade deadline.
According to that
I am afraid that Houston would ask for Noah rather than Thomas.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Matt (Champaign, IL)
A Bulls writer suggested T-Mac and Lowry/Hayes for Hinrich, Salmons Miller. Buy or sell?
John Hollinger (2:09 PM)
There’s no way the Rockets are going to use up their cap space this summer on Hinrich. Try again…
Free Vinny!
LOL
but…but…Kurt is so valuable! He’s so comfortable starting now!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Plus Kurt has "Thrust"!
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 30, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
If Hinrich had a great start to the year, I could see a team being fooled into taking him, but I can’t see anybody taking on his contract in this economic climate. Throw in the fact that there are probably 20 point guards that are clearly better than him and another 20 that have contracts at 15-25% of his and more potential… there’s just no chance.
Thats why the Bulls
should’ve traded him during the offseason when his value was high and teams were salivating over his lockdown D on Pierce
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 29, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
they have tried to trade him but no takers.
Maybe Portland was the best chance but i think the Bulls wanted Bayless and Portland said no. I think thats how it went down.
We just have to except that Deng and Hinrich are the future of the Bulls… not Noah and Rose.
Free Vinny!
Yea, reports had it that we were going to do Outlaw and Blake for Hinrich but we balked because we wanted Bayless or Fernandez or something along with it.
That was so ridiculous too if it’s true.
Hindsight is 20/20, but that deal would’ve rocked for us on so many levels:
1) More cap space
2) A scorer (Outlaw) and a reasonable backup PG for Rose
3) Better 3 point shooting
Negatives:
We lose some defense.
That looks like a very solid net gain with very little risk. It was arguably a fair trade even if Outlaw or Blake were hurt preseason, just for that valuable cap relief and to get Hinrich’s bad fit contract off our books in a season that doesn’t give us a shot at winning a lot anyways.
But instead, like a Gasol or Garnett deal, we get greedy and think our shit smells better than it does and we lose out.
What KG and Gasol deals are you talking about? I dislike Pax as much as they next guy, but he didn’t blow those deals for us (mainly because those deals were never available).
I think he means
how the Celtics and Lakers basically robbed the T-Wolves and Grizzlies to get those players.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
The Portland deal was on,
Pax and Gar were ready to pull the deal, but the Meddler, JR knew by asking asking for Bayless or Fernandez it would kill the deal and his favorite son will remain as a Bull, like I posted on another thread, Kirk has a lifetime contract w/ the Bulls.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 29, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think JR
meddled, he cares more about the dollars in his pockets than his assets on the court. I think the problem was the deal would have looked bad for either team. Either A, hinrich goes all star with his performances with the Blazers and the Bulls look foolish or Bayless blows up with the BUlls and the Blazers look stupid for only getting hinirch. But I think what hurt the Bulls was the fact the bulls already had rose making hinirch surplus in which case the blazers didn’t want to overpay (so to speak)
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Dec 30, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
Reinsdorf doesn't want to part w/
Hinrich, and Hinrich is probably the best fit at PG for Portland, the Bulls were just being greedy by asking for Bayless or Fernandez, Hinrich isn’t worth that much talent.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 31, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Right now, most likely
But my guess is that’ll change as the year goes on. Kirk’s already been promoted to starter, and his last seven games he’s averaged 11pts, 4ast, 4reb while shooting the 3 well. Figure he continues to play 35mpg and moves his per-game averages up, and I gotta think he’ll be worth an expiring somewhere.
Kurt >>>>> Maggette
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
well
they are without Yao for the year. adding two centers on expirings is an angle the bulls could use. If they can force feed Salmons down there throats id say go for it. At this point in the season Miller is probably playing at the same level as aaron gray since miller isn’t hitting any outside shots.
don't let the bed bugs bite
hey gang
lets rec this so it stays on the top. I’ve been removing a bunch of TMac threads figuring one is enough.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 30, 2009 1:39 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
thanks!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 30, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
Would you sacrifice Tyrus to be rid of Kirk?
I think that is what it is going to take. Bribing a team to take Kirk Hinrich’s contract from us and releasing us from Tyrus 5 mill+ cap hold. Since this is a McGrady thead, I’ll post a possible trade.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Bulls Get – Gallinari, Jared Jeffries
Houston Gets – Thomas, Hinrich, Larry Hughes
Knicks get – T-Mac
In order to rid themselves of Jeffries contract I’m sure the Knicks would part with Gallinari. And this way at least we get SOMETHING for Tyrus. Instead of watching him walk away to another team in 2010 or even 2011. We get rid of that 13million cap hold on Tyrus Thomas. We actually don’t save money on Kirk because Gallinari and Jeffries will combine for over 10 while Kirk will have 9mill next year. But the main point is we get something for Tyrus. A 3point shooter. Something we need. I’m not sure if Houston does this, but can they get a better FA for the 13million under the cap that they’ll have for next year?
On the cap hold
I originally only thought it was 5 but researched it and saw it was 13mill
I like the thinking, but this doesn't work
First, the Bulls need to move Salmons out or they won’t have max cap space.
A deal like this could work if we took back less salary and moved Salmons. But this cuts our cap space and doesn’t remove the sword of Damocles that is Salmons.
The salary cap savings would be in removing Tyrus' cap hold for next year
Which we might be able to do without trading him by renouncing his rights. But then he becomes unrestricted and it’s Ben Gordon all over again.
Yeah, but you aren't getting flexibility this way.
While they do get Galinari in the deal, they get $1.3 million less in cap space for next year. I’d rather they lose Thomas for nothing than get $1.3 million less in cap space, even if they do get Gallinari.
Although, if you find a taker for Salmons in exchange for an expiring contract, getting Gallinari for $1.3 of your cap space instead of just renouncing Thomas would be nice.
But then… they still might not have space. With cap holds for roster spots and draft picks, they’d be sitting around ~$36 million.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That's the real issue
You can only take back salary if you both
1. Ensure Salmons isn’t a problem
2. Probably move Hinrich, Deng, Jame Johnson, Taj Gibson, or next year’s pick. Someone with salary on the books.
Sorry...I shoulda included this into this thread..
I put some thought into this trade and think it will work for all teams involved. These are the facts:
1. The bulls should try to trade Salmons so they don’t have to worry about him not opting out this summer.
2. Rockets are wanting to trade McGrady and want expiring contracts in return.
3. Dallas will not be in the running to get a Free Agent this summer with big contracts for Dirk, Kidd, Marion, Terry, Carroll.
Trade =
Bulls get: Tracy McGrady (22.3 mil 1 year), Shawn Williams (2.4 mil 1 year)
Rockets get: Brad Miller (12.2 mil 1 year), Josh Howard (10.8 mil 1 year)
Dallas gets: Salmons (6.4 mil 2 years), Jerome James (6.6 mil 1 year)
Why it works for Bulls: Obviously get Tmac and see if he can help offense but mainly get rid of salmons contract.
Why it works for Rockets: Get rid of Mcgrady while only getting back expiring contracts + miller/howard can both contribute in a playoff run.
Why it works for Dallas: This is probably the most “iffy” team in this deal but my thinking is that they need a starting SG, already have Marion at SF, and won’t have enough money for a FA this summer. So maybe they wanted to get something for howard.
Dallas Lineup:
PG: Kidd, Barea
SG: Salmons, Terry, Beubois
SF: Marion, Salmons
PF: Nowitzki, Marion, Gooden
C: Dampier, Dirk
Doesn't work for Dallas
An oft-injured Josh Howard with an EC is better than a healthy John Salmons for two years. Even at 80% Howard is a better player than Salmons.
john salmons contract is (relatively) smaller
plus like k_yle33 said dallas has some of its own free agents to sign this summer, mainly nowitzki so they would be in a tight spot in terms of money when they get to resigning players to begin with. If salmons is on the team, they have a sg, and then can still commit to signing the other free agents because they can excersise those bird rights….
The only thing i question is if Houston wants a sg themselves….well i guess they can play ariza at the sg…and we can throw in pargo too…i mean i know it will hurt us but……
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I had a similar post above
there are a number of iterations of a 3 team deal with Dallas and Houston that would work. What I was struggling with finding a combination that all three clubs liked. I think Houston prefer a deal that brings them at least one prospect in return… but I don’t know what Dallas is prepared to give up.
Salmons probably works well in the right system for only 6m a year on his contract.
Look at him when he came over here last year at the 3? He got so many good 3 point shots and he faced much slower defenders which he could actually get to the rim on or get a nice mid range shot once he had that established 3 point shot.
This year? He’s playing the 2, and he’s too slow to get around most of the players that are guarding him at that position. In addition, he’s not getting nearly as many open 3s because 1) there’s not really another main scoring threat on the Bulls like there was last year with BG (even if you consider Rose one, he was then also one last year, so we still lost a major scoring threat) and 2) the 2 guard that is playing him this year compared to the 3s that played him last year are faster, therefore they can play a bit closer on Salmons, limiting his open 3 point looks.
I guess in theory Salmons could start posting up some of his defenders, but 1) that has never been his game and 2) how many 2 guards do you know that make a living posting up?
I think the biggest problem for Salmons this year has been playing out of position and not having enough weapons around him to be effective against defenses.
For 6m, you don’t need him to be a 2nd scoring option, nor a 3rd. Even Atlanta has 5 players that make more money than Salmons would next year if he opts in. For his price, he is not a “terrible piece” to have if in the right system. Of course, with the makeup of our team, he looks like shit.
If we could get a real two guard,
having Salmons as a backup 2/3 wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I don’t even want him as a backup 2 guard unless it’s for 3m a year or so.
If he’s a backup 3, I can see 4-5m for him.
He wouldn’t be a bad starting 3 on a good team, he could play a Posey type role on a solid team, but as evidenced by the trip to NO, Posey type players don’t really work without good players around them.
I think Salmons ran a little hot at the end of last year, but he didn’t have the best talent around him then.
This year he’s probably played a little worse than he can, but he’s had a worse team around him and has played out of position.
If the Bulls want to trade Salmons they should play him at the 3 more often and watch him put up mid teen scoring nights with a decent FG % and solid defense. Something similar to last year’s role on the team would maximize his efficiency and wouldn’t really hurt the team.
Except that we’d be thin at the guard spot, but we already are because Salmons just hasn’t worked out there.
Pretty big fail on management’s part, the whole Salmons moving to 2 guard ordeal. Shitty, uncreative way to manage the team, an error compounded by the non guard draft picks and Hunter/Pargo signings.
If we had just signed two young, prospect type guards instead of Hunter and Pargo, we would be fine at the guard spot (there would be some ugly nights, but we could at least play these guys confidently) and put Salmons in a position to play where he plays best, the small forward.
TMac would be an audition for an elite FA
If the Bulls can have success with TMac as a contributor, a free agent 2 or 3 could view that as a watered down preview of the impact he could have leading the Bulls.
It’s also a hedge if the Bulls get completely shut out of the FA market as they may have the opportunity resign TMac to a non-max deal.
Ideally they’d be able to include Salmons in the deal but why would Houston take on what is likely to be an additional year at $6mm?
If the stars align, I see LeBron on the NJ/Brooklyn Nets. They Nets have a solid core in place and a favorable probability of landing John Wall, whom LeBron loves. So TMac would be more of an audition for DWade, who seems likely to leave if the Heat cannot land an elite FA. I expect DWade to see what the Heat can do in FA prior to signing anything.
by messwiththebull on Dec 30, 2009 8:31 PM CST reply actions
Just a thought....
Bulls/Rockets/Clippers
Bulls Send:
Miller(Rockets), Salmons(clips), James(clips)
Recieve: T-mac, Ricky Davis
Rockets send:
Tmac
Recieve:
Camby,B.Miller, M.Collins
Clippers send:
Camby, Davis, collins
Recieve: Salmons, James, 2nd round pick from bulls and rockets
We know why the bulls should want to do it. The Rockets get a productive player in camby to fill in for Yao, and their all expirering contracts so their not stuck with anything past this season. The clippers need a Sf and Salmons is a better sf then sg so he gives them that. Plus Griffen is returning soon, and they will need to make alot of room in their frontcourt and no one is taking Kaman’s contract. Plus you always have to be happy getting Ricky Davis’ punk ass off your team. And they get a few draft picks to play with.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh59h9g
Its works on the trade machine but im sure it has flaws….
do you think
the clippers would want to take salmons if they are going for a free agent this summer? they have a lot of CAP space as well….
Maybe not. Like I said "flaws"
If they still had enough money to go after a free agent, they could go after a SF and Salmons could be a nice piece to come off the bench at both SG and SF. But I dont know the Clippers cap situation at all. Would Salmons even want to opt in with the clippers? If not its all money off the books for them, and they get 2 picks.
by TruEChiFaN... on Dec 30, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
I like it
I don’t know about the clips taking Salmons as k_yle33 mentioned but it’s good for us and Houston for sure.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Here is an idea
Bulls-Rockets-Mavs trade
Bulls trade: Miller, Jerome James to Houston / Salmons to Dallas
Bulls receive: McGrady and Kris Humphries (Dallas)
Rockets trade: McGrady
Rocets receive: Miller, Jerome James, Beaubois, Williams
Dallas trades: Beaubois and Shawne Williams to Houston, Humphries to Chicago
Dallas receives: Salmons
The Bulls do this trade to clear Salmons off the books and to take a flyer on McGrady. Humphries can help replace some of the physical presence Miller brings.
The Rockets receive expirings and a young prospect (Beaubois). Dallas gets John Salmons to replace JJ Barea as their starting shooting guard. I think he fits well with their team.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 31, 2009 4:08 AM CST reply actions
I was listening to Marc Stein on the Simmons podcast
and the Mavs love Beaubois.
Also, Salmons sucks. I think the Mavs would take him (they’ll take anyone) but not giving up anything but dead weight.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 31, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
i don't know much about Beaubois
but if Dallas is high on him than they probably won’t give him up for Salmons. Still, I think Salmons is a pretty good fit in Dallas. Perhaps we can trade him there for expiring contracts.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 31, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know much about him either
but if there’s one place Stein is plugged in, it’s Dallas.
I like Salmons on the Spurs, actually, though they have no large expirings so it’d be a lot of roster spots to give up
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 31, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Why would Dallas wan't Salmons?
Howard and Dampier are both team options for next year. Why trade either of them and take on more cap next year for a player that doesn’t really help them. I agree on Spurs, but they traded most of their expirings for Jefferson this year.
Though if you were to do a Dallas trade.....
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Salmons, Tyrus, and Miller for Dampier and Howard works. We could use Howard in a sign and trade or get him at a discount because he has been hurt the past few years and won’t command that big of a deal as Tyrus.
who said anything about Howard or Dampier?
the mavs won’t have cap space because they have to resign Dirk plus they are paying Kidd, Terry and Marion. Salmons just helps them this year. Some teams are looking to win now. They can trade Dampier or Howard independently of anything they do with Salmons.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 31, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
Howard was mentioned in a trade above
And I mention them together because if Dallas uses their team options on both then they’ll cut 23 million from their cap next year and will be about 10 million under. Not enough for a premiere star, but certainly enough to get someone better than John Salmons. Plus as already stated Beau is a team and fan favorite.
We should try to facillitate a trade for Tmac in exchange for Cap Space
Having said that, I played around with the trade machine and its almost impossible to come up with something where all teams would agree.
Tmac just isn’t attractive enough. Houston won’t take bad contracts back.
On a side note.
I would take Nate Robinson is the Knicks don’t want him. He just beat Atlanta by himself after not having played for a month. He is as dangerous a bench player as there is in this league.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
a short contract to deflect away bad contracts
Tracy McGrady is a 10 year old car. The owner of this car is sick of the Tracy-McGrady-mobile. The car runs terribly. Even after repairs, it breaks down quickly and frequently. So, the owner tries to sell the defect-mobile.
If Tracy McGrady was a car, would you buy him?
A car like McGrady probably couldn’t even pass inspection. Stop watching highlights from yester-year. Look at him for what he is: [see title].
by chicago-homesick-blues on Jan 1, 2010 11:48 PM CST reply actions
Lets say that old car was a collectable and it was worth 23 million dollars this summer.
Would you by him?
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
Rec’d. I don’t see why people still can’t see that McGrady is valuable for his contract. I don’t see if he ever even plays if we did get him. Sit his ass down, Marbury him. But that 23 mill off the books is so valuable.
Which is pretty much what Houston is doing now
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
but if they
keep him, they’ll still be right around the cap when Tmac expires. (there about 25 mil over atm) and I’d think they plan on resigning Scola which wouldn’t allow them to sign anyone without using the MLE if they have one and they can use that anyway if they trade away Tmac. They are better off trading him for players they can use this season.
don't let the bed bugs bite
Ah you're right
Yao Ming has a player option but there is no way he opts out after missing a whole season so yeah they will still not have cap space.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
I think they're expecting him to opt out
wouldn’t they re-sign him to another max deal? He brings in more money than any other player in the league.
(oh..THAT’S why the Bulls wanted to trade Tyrus for Yi!)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Bingo!
That was my first thought when I heard Yi for Tyrus.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
The dream trade
that nets us T-Mac would be a 3 way trade with Houston and Golden State
Bulls Trade- Luol Deng, John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas, James Johnson
Houston Trade- Tyrus Thomas
G-State Trade- Speedy Claxton, Anthony Randolph, Mikki Moore
Bulls get- T-Mac, Randolph, Mikkie Moore
Houston get- Luol Deng, Salmons, Claxton
G-State get- Tyrus, James Johnson, 1.9 mil trade exception from the Noc deal
Is this something that actually could happen? no.. sadly i dont see the rockets wanting both deng and salmons and they would ultimately want Tyrus. It may be possible to flip tyrus and salmons and keep G-State interested. I ran this trade through the Trade Machine and it works.
Kirk for
TJ Ford?
I don’t know if Indiana would do it, but they are apparently trying to move him.
move kirk's contract?
pave the way to keep TT and get Wade?
TJ Ford has a player option for next year
he is almost certain to exercise
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 4, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
For Indiana
it would help them continue to corner the market on White American basketball players.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 4, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well that's
a plus for them. If they get Kirk they would just need Kaman, Scalabrine, Kapono, Korver, Spencer Hawes, David Lee, Walton, White Chocolate, Ryan Anderson, Redick, Matt Bonner, Nick Collison, Kevin Love, Steve Blake, Mike Miller, B-52, Gray, Chris Quinn and Kris Humphries to complete the set.
They would probably be better than they are now.
C- Kaman Brad Hawes
PF- Lee Love Anderson Hansbrough
SF- Miller Dunleavy Walton
SG- Kurt Redick
PG- Blake J Will Quinn
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
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