Del Negro Unable to Control Bulls
[From the FanShots. This is great stuff. I wonder where Ken Berger got his info? Another national writer takes on VDN and the Bulls here. ]
The Bulls don't look like the bundle of chemistry and sunshine we were promised in the summer. I have a question - do the Bulls vets have a problem with giving the ball to Rose?
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I'll answer it for you......YES. Loul Deng is the leader of the rebellion.
Basketball is like any workplace. Derrick Rose came in as the hier apparent to the franshise. That set off Deng, Hinrich and yes, the sacred cow, Gordon.
It is called justifying. Deng cannot dribble the ball, but he would rather look down on the floor like his is in little league somewhere rather than give the ball to Rose for fear that Rose will look better than him. He thinks because he got 72 million and a lot of smoke blown up his ass by Paxson that he should be the man on this team, but he does not have the skill to do so and not the desire to DEFER to a better talent.
If Rose was truly given the keys and his leadership was encouraged and accepted by the veterans Derrick Rose would in turn make them look better and command more money than they are worth by themselves.
Jordan made a lot of trash rich because he made them look good. This is why I say that this team needs to be COMPLETELY blown up. The old holdovers have to be let go. I DON’t GIVE A FUCK IF THEY ARE LIKE CHILDREN TO REINSDORF.
They have made the Bulls into the laughingstock of the league as now the bulls. Totally disrespected by everyone. Tyreke Evans can pretend to GRAB HIS BALLS IN OUR HOUSE. That is like coming in and taking your woman and fucking her right in front of her man in HIS HOUSE!!!! This is now a team of whiny, selfish pussycats.
Rose will end up like Iverson. Good enough to fill seats and keep JR’s bank account full, but never a champion because of the Management. If I was Rose as soon as I can get out of Chicago I am gone. He probably will go to LA to ease in under Phil Jackson as Kobe gets older and can exit gracefully and pass the torch of the Lakers to Rose.
And all of the haters of Rose will cry when Rose is an ALL-STAR on ANOTHER TEAM. Jerry should be sued for every penny he has taken. Evenually it will catch up to him and he will have to do something….not because he wants to, but soon it will cost him money.
Reinsdorf gives a fuck, and in the end he makes the decisions,
so you can’t really go “Oh, who cares!”.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I agree completely about Deng
Deng wants to show this is his team. I can’t say I agree with Kert though, but Deng is gonna do like most vets do who don’t want the rookies to get all of the shine. From what I see, Deng is a horrible teamate, he may be friends with some of these guys off the court, but on the court, Deng is not someone I’d want to compete with.
Both Deng and Kirk are horrible team mates! Period!
And for all who don’t think Kirk is a pussy suck .ss cat just like Luol Deng, then you are in denial.
Luol and Kirk aren’t that good, just ok! But pussy Kirk proudly declares after Gordon was let go, “I knew about it a while before it happen” (not resigning). Open your eyes Kirk lovers. Is not this a punk speaking? Think about for a moment..
Your’re at the bar late, and a couple of guys want to start trouble, would Kirk be the guy to have your back?
What happen to the days when players knew they relied and needed certain teammates to be competitive and openly spoke up and went to management and said I need this guy to be signed. Kirk and Deng where not responsible for much of any of the Bulls wins while Gordon was here and the same is true now. How could anyone believe if these two got more touches the outcome would be better? Why was this such a mystery? Predictions of 48 wins?
Toughness , character and competitiveness isn’t the coaches fault. This guys aren’t leaders.
This post is not a endorsement for Gordon, but to reveal how weak minded and weak and jealous these two captains are. Gordon was not only the best offensive player, but he was mentally the toughest player and took pride and not having other teams openly kick the Bulls ass while he was playing. And that is mistakely call “selfish”
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
truth
finally the truth is coming out and that is why nothing is being done this is way beyond just VDN this is cleaning house, well it is either rose or them.
by sugarbear06 on Dec 23, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Gordon liked playing with Rose.
That is clear in each of his interviews.
by Super-Structure on Dec 23, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
And vice versa.
Man I hate these ORG guys.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
They're not mutually exclusive, ya know.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Ehhhh
“Basketball is like any workplace. Derrick Rose came in as the hier apparent to the franshise. That set off Deng, Hinrich and yes, the sacred cow, Gordon.”
I don’t think Deng is like that at all.
“Most recently, he won the 2008 UN Refugee Agency’s Humanitarian of the Year Award as part of the UNHCR’s ninemillion.org campaign to bring education and sports to millions of displaced children.” -wikipedia
Man this guys gave up hours of his free time to help little kids.
Bulls (try to) play a team orientated game in order to be successful. I think Deng is under more pressure to bring some buckets for the Bulls overall stagnant offense.
I haven’t really seen to many instances where Deng was being selfish. Hes just never been the selfish type… Gordon on the other hand…
what? how is that a response to me?
liking playing with Rose and getting paid are not mutually exclusive. you’d think that would actually be a precursor to getting paid by the bulls
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Hinrich and Deng need to go for expiring contracts.
Unfortunately, they are JR’s “Golden Children”.
More likely, the Bulls lose Noah and Rose when they decide to take the qualifying offer to get the hell out of Dodge Chicago.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
Wow, this should be main aritcle to talk about
rec to smurph for posting this article and Ken Berger for writing it. This has been the sharpest and well written article on the current state of the Bulls debacle( much more fact driven and insightful than what Dwyer wrote yesterday).
This article fills in some of the gaps that have come out in Chicago media that the Bulls managment knows that Vinny has to be fired but hasnt done so because of indecision on a replacement or just plain indifference/laziness/embaressment.
He says Bernie isnt the answer because they are currently running some of his stuff and the players wont respect him. Pete Myers may be the option cause Pax likes him and hes a players favorite who has waited his turn. The person who should be the interm coach of this mess is Pax himself but I think Berger is completly right that Pax might hang himself if he took over this current team because he does care about wins and losses.
The stuff about layup lines is just wasted sentences in a real to the point article. Whether you are in the Lakers situation or Grizzlies NBA players who practice 15+ hours a week, not to mention 20min shooting sessions an hour before tip dont need to run a layup line as serious as a Jr. High team. The Noah quote is very interesting
The thing is, if you were my friend, I’d tell you a lot of things.
What do you guys think he is about to say, Vinny has to go, Derrick has to lead, or Pax has put together a team where 1/4 of the roster can’t play at a NBA minimum talent level?
I cannot believe Noah is referring to management as friends, considering those are the bosses.
I think this is a remark about a player myself.
He's talking to KC or another Chicago Beat writer
I saw this on Comcast and he was directing it at a beat writer off camera.
My question is what does “a lot of things” refer to? Vinnny, Players, or management?
Probably something along the lines of:
“Our cheapass owner got rid of our best player, and our cheapass owner hired this clown of a coach, not to mention Kirk Hinrich and John Salmons are scrubs.”
Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
I think is the players
Noah, Tyrus and Rose seem to get along well. The problems are Deng and Hinrich and, who know’s, maybe Miller. Remember when he was suspended? Everyone said that was because of Ben Wallace, but weren’t Deng and Hinrich captains as well? Didn’t they voted to get Noah suspended?
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Well
We never heard a peep from the captains on that move. As Captains I would expect that they could quash just about any
“players decision”.
From what I know, each year the team asks the players that want to be captains to raise their hands. For the last few years the only hands raised are Hinrich and Deng. Maybe somebody else raised their hand this year.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
Gordon raised his hand but
didn’t get enough votes.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
The rookies
were the only ones who didn’t get a vote on the Noah suspension. It was a unanimous vote from the other players.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Why do we not get these kinds of articles from the Chicago media?
It sounds like this team is an even bigger mess than we suspected. At this point, everyone other than Rose and Noah has to go. That quote from Noah sounded like someone who’s counting down the days until he becomes a free agent (and I sure wouldn’t blame him for wanting to leave this disaster of a franchise).
they need access
it’s always the trade-off local media makes. national media or media in another market isn’t dependent upon it so they have more freedom.
Ken Berger is a bad ass.
Seriously, this article and the one yesterday are very plugged in sounding.
by Sports2 on Dec 23, 2009 10:00 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
If Pax can't bear to watch
how the hell does he think we feel? He’s overseeing this mess so maybe they should make him coach. The T-Wolves did it with McHale, the Knicks made Isiah coach, the Nets and Hornets just did it with their GM’s as well. Then hopefully like McHale and Isiah, he would be shown the door after the season.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
I think we all assumed that these guys would step aside and let Rose lead
That assumptions appears to be wrong. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that Deng, Salmons and Hinrich aren’t ready to give up their positions on the court or in the lockerroom. There seem to be a lack of leadership from the coaching (obviously) and a lack of understanding from the players that Rose is the man now, and everyone else can suck it.
This is why we have Hinrich and Deng running plays at the end of games – they think its their duty too and know one has told them otherwise.
When you piece it all together – Deng’s complaints about the ball movement; the utter lack of passing displayed by the Bulls on the break, Rose talking about needing to defer to teammates, Rose comparing himself to Kobe as a young franchise player, etc., etc. – the signs of a rift seem to be developing between the guys who have been here too long and the young guys.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 11:37 AM CST reply actions
Smurf you are right, that issue is the center of what is happening....
there has been a changing of the guard (no pun intended LOL!!!) in Chicago. Deng and Hinrich are angry. The Bulls will not win UNTIL and UNLESS they are both gone. I was too young to remember how it was when Jordan came with Quintin Daily and Orlando Woolridge and I am sure they were good players, but the arrival of Jordan changed all of that.
Kobe surely understands what Rose is going through. Kobe became an ALL STAR off of the Lakers bench because Eddie Jones was the starting SG. Eddie Jones was a very, very good player in his prime…..very athletic, but Kobe eventually surpassed him and now Kobe is on the verge of surpassing Shaq.
I think Kobe told Derrick to stop caring about them because they won’t be around when you rise to greatness and by the way if you don’t like it in Chi then you can come play with me in LA and I will teach you everything I know and you can be my successor when I am gone.
Derrick has clearly taken Kobe’s advice to heart as his game has definitly changed since the Laker game. We could not ask for a better mentor for Rose than Kobe Bryant. Rose is going to be something the likes that we have never seen before in a Point Guard….I just hope he stays in Chicago.
I actually do remember when Jordan came
and it was very similar in the way the other players subtly resisted as if it wasn’t obvious who should be getting the ball. Rose is starting to just take it on himself more which is good in this case. I did read somewhere where Kobe said you basically can’t care about offending those guys because it’s about winning. Hopefully we can get guys in here that will complement Rose rather than compete with him to have the ball.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Oh and for the record
I don’t put Kirk in the same category with Deng. First of all trying to be a scorer isn’t his game anyway so he’s not going to try to be the man. But also I just haven’t seen him play selfishly in regards to Rose like Deng and Salmons has.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
I'd agree with this.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Kurt is still posting career lows in all categories
Even FT%!
He’s the one player we actually need to be MORE selfish.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
He is the player
we need to trade the most. Point blank Kirk is a BUSTER!!!
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
A lack of selfishness
So selfless is Kurt that he isn’t even willing to force up a bad shot just to avoid a turnover.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
He’s almost the opposite of the Deng and Salmons because he is not assertive enough sometimes. It’s like he doesn’t know what to do with the ball so he just dribbles around looking instead of making a decisive move to the hoop. Nash dribbles around too but with a definite purpose.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Im sorry but the very essence
of Kirk’s game is selfishness. He’s the only PG in the league who can dribble out a 24 sec clock.
He's indecisive
and doesn’t look to shoot which is why he just dribbles around so much. That’s not the same as chucking up shots and ignoring open teammates like Deng and Salmons.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
I remember when Jordan was a rookie too.
My dad took me to his first pro game against the Washington Bullets and Jordan had 16 or 17 pts. First time I had ever heard of him because up until then I was a HUGE DePaul fan. Anyway, when Jordan got to Chicago there was plenty jealousy but by the 3rd or 4th game it was plain for everyone to see that Jordan was CLEARLY the future. He is the very definition of what you call “hitting the ground running”. For some perspective, Jordan’s ROOKIE year numbers FAR surpass Kobe’s career numbers and are about on par with LeBron’s career numbers.
Jordan was a killer and it was evident early. Rose doesn’t have that same sort of domineering personality, but he’s still clearly the best player of this bunch. As for the guys talking about Gordon, I thought Rose and Gordon were on their way to being a top 5 NBA backcourt….and I still believe they could have done so. I said it last year and I’m saying it now. The Bulls blew it. Gordon was small and wasn’t a great defender (no worse than Salmons it now seems though) but his impact was huge. He relieved the rest of the guys of ALL the pressure and he created the operating space that Rose is so desperately missing now.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 2:42 AM CST up reply actions
we
have a team full of role players who don’t know that they are role players. we have a star who doesn’t know he’s supposed to be a star. we have a coach who doesn’t know how to reverse all of the above. we management who is too busy counting money to care what is happening with the organization.
not all of this can be blamed on deng and salmons (and hardly on hinrich). someone needs to compensate for the loss of gordon. rose can’t win games by himself. make deng/salmons understand their roles in this offense and we’ll have a better team. that’s on the coach.
i, for one, and cautiously optimistic about deng’s newfound aggressiveness offense. if it can be harnessed within offensive sets (as opposed to clearout isolations), it’s an asset for the bulls.
rose alone cannot win games.
by leeac on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like Deng's new aggressiveness as well,
I remember when people use to complain about his passiveness, I like that he is playing w/ an edge, I agree totally w/ Leeac
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
my problem with Hinrich in relation to Rose
is that Hinrich still thinks he’s a point guard. It may be the fault of coaching/management – whatever – but it just frustrates me to see him running sets in the half court or taking the ball on the break when Rose is in the game. It is very frustrating to me to watch Hinrich take the ball on the break because he is so bad at it. Its like they don’t know the ball should go to Rose and Hinrich is always there with hands out, ready to receive a pass and rush to the frontcourt, and dribble around for 6 seconds.
In regards to Deng – I am very schizophrenic. I wanted to trade Deng and limit his minutes before the season began. Over the first 15 games it was apparent he was easily the Bulls best player, so I started to warm to him. But he continues to do things that frustrates me to no end – not shooting 3s, insisting on being isolated, passing every 5th game. Long term I think he can fit next to Rose on the court.
Off the court, Deng just opens up another can worms for me. Deng’s effort wanes too much. He strikes me as a locker room politician, a good guy who undermines the coach and future star. I don’t know if this is true – but some of the commotion surrounding the Bulls leads me to question Deng. And we’ve heard rumors of Deng being disgruntled with touches and shots before. A lot of his statements rub me the wrong way and I think can be pretty self-serving. So I question how much he is really willing to defer to Rose, even though I think it would be in his best interest. Deng is a complementary player, not a star.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
I tend to think that if there were strong leadership from the top these things wouldn't be problems.
I agree with your general assessment. I just think it’s nothing that couldn’t be fixed by someone really setting the tone.
With Hinrich, the tone has been to change him from what he is. He was a heck of a lot better as the 195lb, fairly quick, mainly PG than the 205lb combo guard he correctly perceived as what the team wanted him to be. But he can’t change what he is, and the right solution was to cash him in and get him someplace he could maximize his role and we could get a guy who really fit.
With Deng… well, I wonder if he’s the guy Paxson has a “frayed relationship” with, since it was during his negotiation that GarPax stepped in. (Aside, I wonder to what extent Pax got mad and quit in the face of meddling and stupidity from others). Maybe Deng is really a big douche. But if I had to guess, I’d say he’s like most guys, and in the absence of a plan and some kind of leadership to define his role for him, he’ll look out for himself first.
In both cases, I think it’s largely fixable. A real coach, leadership from management, blessing and vesting authority in the younger and better players (Rose and Noah) would probably be fine.
Trade needs to happen
Sometimes when you see a player clearing out it sends a powerful message to those who have become complacent enough to think they can make policy.
You mean, some arrogant S.O.B. like D'Antoni?
This team obviously needs a leader. They had one in Skiles but gravitated toward the player-leader in Ben Wallace. He left, and I don’t know who led last year… At least Gordon led by example and moxie. I don’t know who it is this year.
Maybe you need players to lead, but then, Nash seemed like he had control in Phoenix. I wish D’Antoni and Gordon were in Chicago.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I agree! Team chemistry with Deng is just plain bad
I believe he would have fit in good with Bob Love and Chet Walker’s Bulls
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Its been a lack of
leadership since the Jordan/Pippen era
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Skiles was a good leader.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
A leader has gotta be on the court as well though.
Strange how folks around here are missing Skiles now. I knew it would happen. But Skiles has a shelf life (although it seems he’s mellowed a bit up in Milwaukee).
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 2:44 AM CST up reply actions
A Festivus for the rest of us!!
It appears the airing of grievances has already started.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Are you being serious?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I think having two GM's might be part of the problem.
This team is comprised of a few different layers.
Deng & Hinirch = the old core and bad
Taj & Johnson = rookies and bad
Noah & Rose = the future and good
Brad and Salmons = expiring contacts and bad
The bench = crap
We get this Rose and Noah = keepers.
too many chefs in the kitchen? Or too many bad chefs.
But my question is who has the final say on this roster? Who is making the decisions that composed this bench? They have so many players and people who just don’t fit. WE NEED A GM SINCE WE CAN’T GET A REAL OWNER.
really to me the equation that sticks out the most about this team is BG + Tyrus > Hinirch + Deng = Rose +Noah = best play series I’ve seen in years.
That was the BEST fit around Rose. They should have been moving forward with Rose, BG, Tyrus and Noah.
Thats the team that gave Boston a run for their Money minus KG but still some of the most entertaining never say die basketball I’ve seen in a decade.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
Aren't Taj and Gibson the same person?
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Sue
Taj is our best on ball and off ball defender (according to Neil Funkenstein). Its like having two guys out there.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
How in the hell did Taj and Gibson sneak into the core?
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
cause everyone else is either a punk, old or not good
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Taj is as replacebale
as Aaron Gray, Taj goes in the right deal, it would not be hard to replace Joe Smith, Jr.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
You guys are making a Bulls fan mistake.
This franchise has everybody thinking that Tyrus Thomas can’t play. Making him out to be the same villian that Curry was and that Gordon was. Thomas is a baller and along with Noah has more heart than anybody in a Bulls uniform these days. Thomas wasn’t ready for Skiles but he’s ready for a real coach now. When he’s coached up he’s a double double waiting to happen.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 2:46 AM CST up reply actions
well let's say we agree on some things
thomas has heart! Yes..
a double double machine waiting to happen…Maybe, if he can minimize the mental lapses that occur on defense and offensive, togther with iincreased on court awareness (IQ). Learn rebound positioning.
a baller? No, not yet!
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
But Reggie Miller
said he can average 10 blocks per game!!!!!
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
That's what good coaching can help eliminate.
After all, the guy averaged about 11 pts and 6.5 rbds WITH the mental lapses and WITHOUT legitimate coaching last season. A coach that channel Thomas’ ability and energy can get 17/12 out of him on a nightly basis.
Speaking of mental lapses and on court awareness…which Bulls player is overcoming those lapses and showing a great deal of awareness on either end right now? When your team only averages 90 pts in the first 25 or so games and blows a 35 pt lead and gets down big to NY then there are a lot of mental lapses happening…especially with the coaching staff. Guess it’s not unique to Tyrus Thomas.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Slow your roll
TT can average 15-17 points but he ain’t ever leading the leauge in rebounding which 12 boards a game tends to be tops every year. More like 8 boards a game.
Whatever.
You may be right, but I think you get my point. Thomas needs a coach that can get the most out of him. Who that coach is may be debatable…but it sure as hell ain’t VDN. That’s fa damn sho right there!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
Bulls practice has ben canceled.
From David Schuster
The Bulls were (originally) supposed to practice on Wednesday but that practice was called off. Some conspiracists will think that this will give upper management time to deal with Del Negro in person and perhaps make a firing. But, logically, the real reason is that the team played back to back games on Monday and Tuesday and with only only seven players seeing minutes this team is wiped out physically.
The guess is that no firing will happen until Del Negro gets the chance to get one of his players back in Tyrus Thomas (this weekend). Christmas Eve should come and go without any pink slip but the same can not be said about New Years Eve.
http://www.670thescore.com/Bulls-Insider-Blog-from-David-Schuster/5960572
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
So for all of TT's career they jerk him in out of the game
and not they wait for him to be in to make an assessment on the team? ridiculous
by The90sBullsRevival on Dec 23, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
yup.. thats just great isn't it?
BG and Tyrus were a big reason I enjoyed watching this team. I’m so pissed they’ll both be on another team next season.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
unbelievabull
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Dec 23, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone else find it hilarious
that the Bulls are apparently giving VDN a chance to see what he can do when Tyrus comes back, even though he hates Tyrus and constantly benches him?
by Illini15 on Dec 23, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
yes.
It just falls right in line with Bulls logic doesn’t it?
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
Wojnarski's article was particularly silly on this
because it simultaneously states the Bulls “can’t wait” to trade Thomas but want to give Vinny the chance to have him back and healthy.
It doesn't make any sense.
Unless you think of it financially and short-term.
A) Decide not to fire a coach because it would cost too much to do so.
B) Tell the fans you want to wait for the the full personnel.
C) (“B)” is irrelevant)
On the other hand, I still don’t get how firing Del Negro costs them money. A) They will simply promote an assistant coach and likely not pay him any more… or very, very little. B) They aren’t going to fill that assistant coach’s position once promoted.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You know what the dumbest part of this is?
They’re waiting for Tyrus to come back despite it being common knowledge that Vinny doesn’t even like Thomas or know how to use him in an even remotely effective manner.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
by dakoose on Dec 23, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Myers is the obvious choice
Pete comes cheap and is loyal, and a nice guy who everyone in Chicago likes. As a face of the organization, he’s a huge improvement over Vinny, who was despised from Day One (partially for being clueless, partially for not being D’Antoni or Collins), a link to all those rings and trophies!
Our Supreme Overlord, who is so good at “business,” knows that you can’t have a laughingstock of a franchise—especially one that is hated and booed off the court by your own fans—and still get those season ticket renewals. Eat a year and a half of Vinny’s NBA-low head coach salary, give Myers some peanuts for the rest of the season, sell hope for 2010.
It’s not like money is an issue; just take or slice of the All-Important Luxury Tax Pie to make Vinny go away. Easy. Honestly if it wasn’t for the absurd Christmas Eve history of this franchise it would happen today or tomorrow. Instead we’ll have to wait a few more weeks. But it will be Myers, I’m sure of it.
I think Myers is clueless too
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Winning is no longer the goal
We’re not hiring Myers as a master strategist. We just need to make a change for this lost season. He’ll be the interim guy and be cut loose after the season (or moved upstairs). It will involve almost no additional expense to the Chairman, which is another plus.
The goal is to avoid being hated by your own fans. We’re there right now with Vinny. Myers buys some goodwill with the general public until we can sell hope for 2010.
I didn't even like Pete Myers when he played
I think most fans view Pete Myers as a joke
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, and they'll lose more
so I don’t see how there’s any goodwill there. Most people probably like Vinny as a person, it’s that his team sucks.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Pete was a scrub, but in the
history of sports, scrubs for some reason turn out to be good coaches, maybe it might be the case for Pete, who knows
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
hes tried his hand twice
and failed…if he had the ability to be a decent coach, they might have picked him instead of that last interim…i think ultimately he doesnt want the pressure of being head coach, and is content being an assistant…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
VInny is a pawn!
In all these corporate yata-yata!
He will be as a pawn… a sacrifice too the casual and uneducated Bulls fan. They will think he was the reason the Bulls are so horrendous this year.
A sacrificial lamb of sorts… the peasants (the media) will use all his remains as and explanation… a justification of why the Bulls were so bad this year.
But who was the fellow that place the lamb within the organization in the first place?
Chancellor Reinsdorf.
I would hope to see the people call for Reinsdorfs head. To me hes a greedy inpassionate bureaucrat that only care for one simple commodity… Money.
Baseball is his true his true passion… not basketball. The Basketball side of his moneymaking empire is just another income generating tool.
The fans fill his pockets… at the same time they fill the seats. Why can’t we have an owner that actually would do everything and anything for his team and his fans? (Like Mark Cuban!)
The same fans that contribute their hard earned money for his product…
Yet he can’t pay the luxury tax.
Reinsdorf is lame. Chicago should run him out of town and get an owner thats more cool.
It probably will be Myers
but man is that the stupid move. I’d rather see Scott or Johnson in – someone who will help Rose develop. Hell, I’d take Pippen in a heartbeat over Myers.
I think you hit the right points
but I don’t see Myers as a solution to those points.
Reinsdorf does need to sell hope for 2010, but if he fires Myers at the end of the year after a dismal season, I’d expect season ticket holders to leave with it. Some will stick around to see what happens this offseason, but many won’t out of disgust, especially when the last 12 years have been so bad.
But bring in a competent coach, especially one who can develop Rose, and there’s a good chance this team finishes the season decently considering the late season schedule. If that happens, and Rose has a few heroic games (both very possible), then Reinsdorf can sell his team’s New Direction. Add in a decent FA this offseason, and you’ve earned another year of ticket sales.
This team has been such a trainwreck that I’m not sure you can sell a new coach who’s come from within, especially one with no head coaching experience. I wouldn’t be surprised if Myers is named the two-week-interim just to get VDN out of the picture, but I think the early January date was to give Pax/Gar time to find a competent replacement, so I’d expect a full-time replacement to be named within a month. It doesn’t make sense to me any other way.
I wonder if they could just hire Doug on a temporary basis
Doug would bring his firery coaching (and actual coaching) and get the team around .500.
But they would say from the outset it’s just to right the ship, and then ’dorf and Collins could have a good cry afterwards.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
I can't think of another situation like this
where a team has obvious talent, but the coach is so inept that they lose by 20+ every other game. This should be the most coveted head coach opening in recent years, even with our crap management. There’s almost no way to fail, and so many ways to come out looking like a genius.
How about Collins coaches out the season
which is really about his expected shelf life anyway, and then he replaces GarPax.
Collins makes some sense to me in the GM role. He’s got a good basketball mind and he’s respected around the league.
Most important of all, I think he’d probably be able to exert some pull on Reinsdorf to get his way, and might be independent enough to do so. In contrast, my sense is Paxson doesn’t have that kind of swag and wouldn’t have the balls to use it if he did.
works for me.
more firing via promotions :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
Pete Meyers
Didn’t Pete coach 1 game before Boylan took over? I remember him saying that San Antonio was his scout …minutes before the Spurs crushed the Bulls.
ShipTileDirect.com - Why pay expensive retail prices? When you can ShipTileDirect at a fraction of the cost.
Brad miller trade?
Update:
The Chicago Bulls blog speculates that Miller, who was benched along with John Salmons by head coach Vinny Del Negro to start the second half in the Bulls’ 88-81 loss to the Knicks Tuesday, could possibly be traded to Portland to replace the injured Joel Pryzbilla.
http://www.rotowire.com/Brad-Miller-googid120738-spnba.htm
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
damn I just read that it's Sam Smith!
my bad.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
by SoulEater7 on Dec 23, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh damn
I thought it was here because I just read that suggestion the post about Pryzbilla getting hurt.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
heh
exactly
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Sam Smith reported it?
Then it must not be true! Actually, I hope he’s wrong, as his contract is key in the 2010 FA sweepstakes.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
it's not even a real deal.
I read it on rotowire thinking it was a rumor. Then I read Bulls blog speculation only to be lead to Sam Smith’s blog. Sorry for wasting everyone’s time.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
WTF?
Since when do our crazy trade ideas get taken seriously?
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
why do we give up an expiring contract and our only backup center?
Gray doesn’t count
Over the past 4 games, I don't think Gray could have been worse than Brad has been.
Just waiting on some offense....
Gray has the sweetest job in the world,
he may get on the court once or twice in 2 weeks, and make millions
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
whoa my mind blew up
gray, miller, and full court fast break should never be used in a sentence together without the word cannot between them
to try to comprehend that idea is like trying to comprehend the number after infinity…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Did you see Brad run the court lately?
But obviously I’m exaggerating. Or at least I hope I am. At least a little bit?
That wasn’t an endorsement of Aaron, it was an indictment of Brad.
I think the Bulls broke me. I’ve cheered on countless horrible teams in my life (Seahawks, Mariners, KU football team), and I’ve never felt anywhere near as bitter/angry/hopeless as I do after the last two games. Everything I post right now is an emotional reaction rather than any effort at real analysis, because what would be the point of that anyway?
Just waiting on some offense....
you have my sympathy
this is why i’ve decided the humor approach, but everytime I look up I see Brad Miller wallowing around on the floor or in some funky slo mo drive to the basket where by some odd twist of athleticism nobody can react to it, it’s like watching the matrix.
that is definitely not happening
who are they going to give up for Miller? Why would they give up a piece for a guy who can’t even move anymore
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
i
think miller still has 15mpg left in those legs. those minutes just aren’t being used right by the bulls right now. starting him against fresh legs is not too smart, but then again, this is the chicago bulls.
I dunno.
He’s missing tons of wide open shots, that’s on him and nobody else.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Sham's latest tweet:
One thing that’s always true; no matter what happens, when Vinny Del Negro pisses you off, it’s fun to stretch his face.
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
by Illini15 on Dec 23, 2009 12:57 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Miller and a 2nd rounder for Blake and Outlaw works for me. Then we ship Kirk and Salmons for Boozer.
Takes two to tango.
Utah’s got D-Will manning the point, so why would they want a 10 mill a year backup PG? Also, Salmons is a ball stopper and an awful fit for Sloan’s offense.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Dude this is really crazy that they are waiting for Tyrus still.
One player? They wanna trade him too, what are they waiting for?
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
If Tyrus comes back, and the Bulls start playing better...
That could force the Bulls to make some amazing moves. You can’t trade Tyrus if fans make the “when Tyrus is here, we’re good” connection, but you have to clear cap space for next year. Salmons/Kirk/Deng become the major trade chips.
That move could be Tyrus to
G-State for Anthony Randolph and a filler
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
The Bulls think Tyrus Thomas can make bad coaches good?
Interesting.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
Sorry about Salmons and Miller (I'm re-posting this)
We in Sac know all too well that they are not the kinds of guys to pull a team out of a funk. On the contrary, Miller is all about pouting and sulking when things don’t go well and Salmons justs shuts down.
In the jubilant Kings locker room after the game, Bulls center Brad Miller surprised his former team and immediately was showered with grief.
“I didn’t have anything to do with that (game),” Miller said, despite going 0 of 4 from the field in 22 minutes.
Oh yeah – WE MISS YOU BRAD! :)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
link?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
I miss Brad Miller, too.
Cause this shell of a basketball player sure ain’t him.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
wow
need a link for that, but if true, wow
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Oh gawd
That quote is real.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
wow the Kings are really basking in the glow of a 35 point come back aren't they?
LoL thats pretty amateur. Seriously people were turning off the game and the players had shut it down. Is it really that big of a accomplishment to beat the Bulls after everyone assumed you were dead? Just a young and dumb team.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
It's the second biggest comeback in NBA History
It’s a big deal. Even if the Kings were the worst team or the best team ever it would be quite a feat.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Get him out of here - NOW
what a loser comment. completely changes my opinion of him
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
Sam Smith...sheesh
Listen to this audio. I think he’s fine with having covered 6 championships, and it doesn’t matter if this team sucks while he slowly fades into retirement.
Basically says replacements could be worse, He even absolves VDN for the Kings debacle (“he didn’t help, but the players choked”), and it’s not an issue that Rose gets a better coach because Rose “has been terrific and shouldn’t be counted on to score anyway”.
http://www.670thescore.com/Bulls-Insider-Blog-from-David-Schuster-AND-Sam-Smi/5960572
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 3:16 PM CST reply actions
The only thing that's true is that Rose has been terrific these last games.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
well he's only been terrific when abandonding the offense
I still don’t see how it helps overall to have him coached by Vinny, even if the results are there.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
A thought
Maybe Bulls action plan wasn’t supposed to kick in until 2010 but their hand is being forced with injuries and events that were out of their control(like 35 point meltdown)and this is upsetting overal time frame and salary structure.
Uhh
Yes, but there are clearly puzzle pieces that need to shift.
- What happens with Tyrus? Move him now, move him later, or just renounce him?
- Can you trade Salmons or convince him to exercise his player option and dance with free agency?
- Keep Kirk or trade Kurt?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
these are solid and excellent points
but this is not for some odd reason to be a pro-active organization and if there ever was a time to be active that time is right now
If they were smart, they'd fire Del Negro now before Thomas gets back.
Then, when the team ends up playing better with him, and if Hinrich and Salmons ever come back, they can sell Pete Myers interim work as a “job well done.”
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
hinrichs almost back i think
in the span of the last five games hes shooting 45%, on 20/44 fg and 46% from 3pt land 6/13 while averaging 33 minutes those games
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
well, good
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
aside from tyreke
who else has killed him on defense?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
...well thats not even fair
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Well the "stopper"
has to stop somebody at some point
im not the one who labeled him a stopper
hes a great defender, but i dont think that equals stopper either…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
hinrich=battier
minus 5 inches….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
But you just used the word
Great when defining his defense. Really? Against whom? I think he looks like he’s trying real hard so people label him great. I think he’s ok, sometimes good depending on who he’s guarding but a "Great " defender shouldn’t get abused by Tyreke Evans like that.
i dont think he just looks like hes trying really hard
he IS trying real hard….and i guess the concept of great can be used differently depending on philosophies…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I know
But I watched Andre Miller put 30 on this guy last year. I just think he’s an overall overrated player and his overvalue by the organization is one of the reasons that they are in the spot they are in now.
More than any other player, everything about hinrich is subjective
and its subjective only to his contract and his place on this team…had we not lucked into rose then hinrich wouldve been a solid starting pg at a bargain price…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
subjective also to his paxson juice hype..
imo.. kirk is a solid reserve at an expensive price
If it not been Rose, it would be the next John Wall, Brandon Jennings, T. Evans or another to have forced him to the bench.
imo.. kirk is a solid reserve at an expensive price
If it not been Rose, it would be the next John Wall, Brandon Jennings, T. Evans or another to have forced him to the bench.
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Agreed
He hasn’t been the same since the loss to Detroit in the final game of the season a couple of years ago.
Whenever an elite guard comes to town, it seems as though he shuns the task of having to guard them, and just seems overmatched as often as not, these days.
The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing.
Blaise Pascal, Bulls Fan
VDN must have some dirt on John or Jerry....
There has to be some reason he is still coaching this team I would like to know John Paxson’s, I know high school coaches who could do a better job than VDN
Privately Reinsdorf loves Vinny's contract
Publically he appears as if he doesn’t really care for Vinny..
One must understand Reinsdorf to determine his true position..
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Management saying wait for Tyrus to come back clearly shows they value what he brings to the table
With that being said, this Bulls team can clearly turn this season around. We’re a game or so out of 8th place in the playoffs and we still have alot of ball left to play. Kert may have just taken Salmons position as a starter where he should have been from the beginning. Kert starting makes the Bulls a much better team, and add to that Tyrus is gonna return with a grudge and alot to prove. The Bulls have gone through the storm, as long as no injuries occur, they should come out o.k now that the team is back and the best defender and big man is returning.
I hope you are right
but if Vinny doesn’t play TT like he should he (Vinny) should be gone sooner than later.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Maybe that's what they're really waiting for.
Not whether Thomas will be good, but whether Del Negro will play him enough to raise his trade value for another prospect on a rookie contract.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Or it could be subterfuge
All we clearly know is the front office is trying to buy time for something. It could be that they value Tyrus, it could be that they want time to perform a thorough coaching search, it could be that Jerry’s not ready to give up on VDN’s contract of 1.5 more years. Considering their treatment of Tyrus in the past, I’d be shocked if they said this because they actually value him.
Shows how inconsistent and ridiculous Bulls mgmt is.
I’m convinced out ownership/leadership is as bad as the Clippers!!! Bulls throw shit against the wall and see what sticks.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
I had these feelings while I contemplated why the bulls suck..
The drop off from Miller and Salmons… it seems so steep. Why? Why were they better players last season that made people say wow I love Brad Miller that savvy vet and for people to except Salmons being the replacement for BG?Because they were better.
What made them drop off like this? It’s only been a few months you can’t just get that bad so fast.
Is it that they know they’re only seeing themselves as trade bait or expiring contracts? If you knew this is what the organization saw you as how would that effect your willingness to perform? If you knew you were going to get fired by your company how would that effect your performance at work?
I wonder if thats going on here?Who else do you explain the drop off?
Then I also have my thoughts on Hinrich and Deng.. I believe there is a power struggle between the ‘captains’, the old guard vs the idea that this is Rose’s team.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
man when we opened that 2nd half
and we had Rose with fire in his eyes, Salmons and Miller on benchNoah ,Gibson,Deng flying down the court and you wonder. Rose with the right people playing the right way and we can have something here.
A lot of reasons for Salmons
(1) He missed two months of offseason workouts to rest his groin.
(2) He missed the 2nd and I think 2nd to last preseason games to be with his wife for the birth of his kid. So that was on his mind throughout the preseason.
(3) It’s only been 27 games. Slumps happen, and he hasn’t been terrible over the past 18 games (13.8ppg, 3.6rpg, 2.4apg on .520 TS%).
(4) He’s been streaky before. Really streaky.
Here’s his game log from two seasons ago. 36 games in, he was averaging 17.3pts, 4.9reb, 3.4ast on 59.7 TS% in 36mpg. His next 40 games, he averaged 7.4pts, 3.3reb, 2.0ast on 48.3 TS% in 25mpg. I couldn’t find an injury that caused it (Ron Artest did come back from injury on game #37, but Salmons initially kept his minutes). It looks like just a complete mental shutdown like I’ve never seen before. And then in the final 5 games, he averaged 20ppg and 7rpg.
It’s obvious Salmons is talented. Anyone calling last year a fluke didn’t see his numbers from the 1st half of ‘07-’08. And he just turned 30, so I don’t think this is a case of diminishing skills, although it’s possible. More likely, he’s a headcase that still has 54 games to figure it out.
I said after the first few games this season
That the Salmons we were seeing was what we were going to get and darn if I wasn’t right. I said it before and I’ll say it again, this guy was a 9ppg scorer in this league and he’s 30 years old. What made people think that this guy could supplant BG’s production is beyond me. He is who he is and I don’t think it will change. Last year was a fluke.
You weren't right
Salmons has been much better than 9ppg since you said that, and he’d been a 17ppg scorer for half of ‘08, so it’s a tough sell to call ‘09 a fluke. Most of us mistakenly overrated Salmons based on 1.5 years of good offense, but what you’re saying is totally different.
My larger point, which I believe
has come to pass is that he isn’t the player that he appeared to be last here where he spent most of his time at SF and playing with one of the most productive backcourts in the NBA last year. I saw nothing in John Salmons game, let alone career that showed me that he was ready to play off-guard to Derrick Rose. He’s avg 13.4 ppg which is only a full point above his best year pre-Bulls.
In other words his play to date doesn’t surprise me and he’s closer to the player he’s been most of his career than he was last year. 9ppg isn’t a real strecth.
Playing with Gordon took more pressure off these Bulls than anyone really understands.
Gordon is not some God or something like that, but he was way above average in the toughness category and FAR AND AWAY the Bulls best and most consistent performer over the last 4-5 years and he got shit on for that while two of his teammates got rewarded. Gordon was a true professional and came to play most every night and he had no problem shouldering as much of a load as he could on this Bulls team. All along the answer was to move Hinrich and possibly Deng and go get a post player who would compliment Rose and Gordon. Deng has been playing very solid ball this year but Salmons could have given the Bulls solid play at the 3 without the pressure of having to produce the way the Bulls need him to now (THIS is the role he played for Chicago last season and why he thrived). Rose and Gordon would be one of the best backcourts in the NBA right now, Salmons would be under no pressure to put up big numbers and the Bulls would have somebody who could score with their back to the basket creating more opportunities for Rose and Gordon.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
I don't care what yfBB thinks, but OKC Thunder just traded for Eric Maynor.
They needed a backup-PG, so they traded Peter Freshsheds who is never coming over for Maynor and Matt Harpring’s contract.
Bulls-related: Some teams are pro-active. The Bulls are not among those teams. OKC needed a PG, and I was picturing going after one in the draft, but this more than takes care of that. Wow.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
flagged
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/12/22/1213460/thunder-acquire-eric-maynor-for
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
F you!
(“Flag you!”)
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I don't get it how people can say that Pete Meyrs is the solution
The solution is to find a coach that players could respect. A coach that made a run in the playoffs in the past or that got to the finals. IMO Byron Scott should be the obvious solution for this problem. Forget about an interim coach. Bring a real one now!
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
FWIW Bernstein on 670 said there are work eths questions about Scott
Something like “not big X and O guy..lets players play…charter flight times being changed to accommodate his tee times”
I don’t think Scott is a particular good choice. They apparently need someone that can get Deng to not think the offense should be an iso for him and Kirk to give Rose the ball at the end of the game. That doesn’t seem like Scott. Moreover, NO look awful over the last year and half every time (6 games?) I watched them play. And that’s with a much stronger roster than the Bulls.
I’d rather have Frank or if not him Van Gundy or if not him Avery Johnson. Honestly, I wonder if Thibodeau wouldn’t be a better hire than a retread. And before anyone shouts “Experienced coach!” T. at least has assistant coaching experience.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 23, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
Pete Myers is NOT the solution.
I’m with you bull83. But this is typical Chicago Bulls MO. They’ll do the simple thing….sad to say. I hope they prove me wrong if VDN goes.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
More from Ken Berger
http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/19125421
Says Vinny is gone and we should be ready for the Pete Meyers Experience
My Dream: Convince Hubie Brown to coach the Bulls to the end of this season as interim coach
So, I know that way off in fantasy land, but maybe he’d like to see what he could get out of Rose in what’s left of the season.
I also liked the Collins interim coach → GM idea posted earlier. That won’t happen either but it’s one of the better ideas for an attempted fix that I’ve read.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 23, 2009 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
Lawrence Frank?
He is available. What about Frank to replace VinnyD?
Fired Up? Fired up! Ready to go? Ready to go!
Dunno
Frank is kind of the opposite of Vinny. He puts in hours like a football coach. Incredible preparation. At least that was his rep early on. He had early success with the Nets, and his story was that he was a non-athlete who got into coaching early and was really intense about coaching. As opposed to having nice hair and just being “a fighter.” At least Frank would have them running plays.
I am a wise pumpkin.
I'd rather see Van Gundy or Tom T. I think
Of the Scott/Frank/Johnson set, I guess Frank and Avery would be about equal. Either would probably bring the preparation that I don’t think Scott would. I’d worry about Avery being a bad match for Rose, whereas Frank had success with Devin Harris on player level. But Avery might have an easier time controlling the team.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 23, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
too much deng/salmons/kirk hating...
Deng/Salmons/Kirk are solid players but the problem is they are all exactly the same type of players with really similar defficiencies. They all have ok midrange, less than average 3pt shots, no consistent driving ability, and decent defense.
I definitely dont see any of them as being selfish. Rose has been getting close to 20 shots a game so the other guys HAVE to take the shots they are taking, its just they are too predictabe.
The team is extremely unbalanced. No 2nd pure scorer, no spot up shooters, no post up game. Honestly I think the lack of 3pt shooting and lack of driving ability besides Rose are HUGE problems considering the style of play the Bulls have.
My hope is we fix 2 out of 3 problems. Realistically I think we can get Joe Johnson and Kyle Korver. If we could work a trade to get Korver and Boozer next year, along with JJ, I’d be extremely happy.
I disagree I think Deng/ Hinrich and Salmons are really bad fits for this team.
I’m too tired to give you reasons why. There are a lot though. The fact that they’re still on this team is unbelievable to me.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
Kirk and Salmons may not be selfish at heart,
but their respective games require selfish play. Salmons is simply not good when he’s playing off of the ball. He can’t catch and shoot and rarely cuts to the bucket for layups, like Luol used to do a lot with Skiles. Salmons needs to either drive to the bucket or shoot off of the dribble, basically making him a ball stopper. He’s like a star player with much, much less skill. He simply kills an offense because not enough of his shots go in to justify stopping an offense or taking the ball out of Rose’s hands.
Similarly, with Kirk, he needs the ball in his hands. He sure as hell isn’t gonna be making off the ball cuts to the bucket for lay ins, as he’s not a quality finisher. He needs the ball in his hands, as like Salmons, he doesn’t catch and shoot very well. He’s an ok scorer, but not good enough to play the two.
Deng is kind of selfish. He often is reluctant to give up the ball and despite his deficiencies in isolation situations, he tries to take his man one on one more than he should. He also has complained about shots in the past.
These guys are not good fits with Derrick.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
good point! excellent observation
in the 3rd quarter at the end VDN instituted following lineup, Rose, J.Johnson, Noah, Taj,and Salmons keep in mind this is only a sample of athletic players, but the game took off, the speed factor kicked in and you could think about the what if, Tyrus THomas,maybe a joe johnson, mix in an Amare Stoudamire get the point.
Ultimate role players
Luol can’t dribble, Heinrich dribbles too much, Salmons game went south, don’t hate them but nothing makes them special.
Let's stop the charade
If our future is D. Rose and their is a good argument for this, and the above players are not in line with this(never been all-stars) then let us begin to build this thing around Rose.I have seen enough of Deng and Kirk’s act where I won’t be sorry when they are gone. But for Rose era to begin Deng era needs to end.
by sugarbear06 on Dec 24, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Anbody who has been around here knows I've been Luol Deng hater number ONE!!!!
But I can’t hate on Deng now. He is ballin’ and that’s real right there!!! The problem is the same as it’s always been. The Bulls have too many regular guys. They need a front line superstar to take the pressure off these guys and allow them to be the role players they are. At this point if the Bulls acquire a star, preferably a post player (and somebody who can shoot straight) then that guy can be the #1 option and Derrick Rose is coming on strong and with the right people in place he will reach his potential. But ultimately this allows Deng to settle into the #3 option spot where he would be INCREDIBLE!!! He may even end up warranting all-star consideration because he’ll put up big scoring and rebounding numbers as the #3 option. You could have 3 guys all averaging 20+ ppg in a case like this and the Bulls become a different team.
But the Bulls CANNOT keep running Hinrich and Salmons expecting them to be the answer or running these Iso’s for Deng thinking he can put them over the top in that manner. The Bulls have an elite talent in Rose but they need at least one more elite talent to move up from the mediocre level.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 11:23 AM CST reply actions
Luol's problem
Plain and simple is in the Ego dept., he doesn’t see the big picture that it ain’t about him
by sugarbear06 on Dec 24, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Funny thing was I recall folks around here saying that...
…Ben Gordon was the egomaniac. Let me tell you from firsthand knowledge. That was the farthest thing from the truth. I don’t really know much about Deng though…other than some opinions a few guys have about him.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
the manslave?
I hear you make a mean PB&J
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
No I'm not a personal friend of Ben Gordon....
I’ve met him on several occasions but I can’t call him a personal friend because we’ve never had a conversation consisting of anything more than me saying “what up BG” and giving him some dap. But I am close to a few current and retired NBA players and a member of the Bulls coaching staff (Pete Myers who I PRAY is not named interim coach if VDN is canned…I like Pete but he is not the answer to the Bulls problems). So I have a little insight on a few things and I have some firsthand knowledge regarding NBA players thoughts and feelings about Bulls players. But I don’t have any super exclusive information about what the Bulls are going to do. I wouldn’t be told those types of thing by Pete Myers.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Dec 24, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
keen observation
ballers on here know that when you see a player drive on fast break and when he has sombody running with him and he knows it he chooses to miss a layup against 3 players that pass to wide open man, this is all the evidence I need
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