Knicks 88, Bulls 81: 'twas the game before Christmas Eve...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 12:31 AM CST
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Print| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Chicago | 92.0 | 88.0 | 42.3% | 11.9 | 17.0 | 16.3 |
| New York | 95.7 | 42.9% | 17.6 | 20.4 | 9.8 |
In the aftermath of Monday nights' debacle (remember? giving up the biggest road comeback in NBA history? to the Kings?) the narrative as to how the Bulls would 'respond' could've played out either way. They would take it as a challenge and show some fire (or something) and come out of the gates well, or they would have an 'emotional hangover' and keep the suck train a rollin'.
It was the latter, so the post-game questions were about the latter (at least VDN didn't cave to that explanation). But it was a ridiculous premise regardless: the Bulls are likely to stink any game, whether it's following an awful loss or not, because they stink. They were playing the Knicks who also aren't very good, so it was still possible they would get a win...but that would also have nothing to do with what happened the night before.
I suppose the fact that the Bulls followed up their 10 point fourth quarter Monday with a 12 point first quarter the next night was a signal that they were really laying down on VDN, but it's hard to tell when they have an offense that's currently only better than the TWolves and Nets. The type of offense that has to 'surge' in the second half to get to 81 points. Against the Knicks! Same problems: Salmons sucks, Miller looks finished, no outside shooting, no depth.
But that surge may have both extended VDN's job security, yet further indicted his poor coaching. The Bulls didn't quit after being down, and like was said post-game (it was an interesting and long post-game scrum, with the whole thing on TV) by VDN, this team does have 'good guys', who aren't quitters by nature. But they didn't get back with some kind of newfound execution of a rehearsed offense, if anything it was Derrick Rose ignoring it all and taking control of the team in that 2nd half. A good sign for us armchair psychologists of Rose's mindset, but only making one wonder what he'd be like with a real coach and teacher on his side.
But, no, as a team they aren't quitting, though a team can have pride in themselves yet still have no faith in their coach. VDN indicated that a late out-of-timeout possession that saw Hinrich throwing an ill-advised lob to Noah was an audible from Hinrich himself. I'm sure that happens more often than we'd hear on any NBA team, but it's suspicious on this one.
And even more suspicious was this quote from Joakim Noah to KC Johnson:
If you were my friend, I would tell you a lot of things, but I feel like if I say something, it's going to make things really bad.
Certainly could be taken a number of ways (the same number of ways this team is messed up from top-to-bottom), but it's apparent at least one guy doesn't believe in any moral victory gleaned from the 2nd half tonight. Vinny seemed quite content afterward given the calls for his head. It was a game where the Bulls kept playing, he kept coaching (even making the adjustment of giving time to Johnson and Pargo, and promoting Taj and Hinrich to the 2nd half starting lineup), and though it ended up in more losing, maybe he knows the only way our front office pokes their heads out is if it's a complete quit-job by the team, and tonight wasn't that. Yay.
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Most psychologists could be thought of as "armchair..."
by Super-Structure on Dec 23, 2009 12:37 AM CST reply actions
heh, good point.
monday morning psychologists?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
Sounds good to me.
I would like to point out another dream shake appearance from Rose.
by Super-Structure on Dec 23, 2009 2:40 AM CST up reply actions
Salmons questions his suckage
What happened to the Da Bulls?
by Belize on Dec 23, 2009 1:00 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I wish I was Joakim Noah's friend.
Glad I didn’t watch this, caught the highlights. My life has already improved.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
The more I dwell on it, the more I love the genius that was Joakim's quote.
Not only did he refuse to give the same PC crap answers we usually get from the players, but he managed to tell us a lot without saying anything too specific, all while casting subtle aspersions at his teammates and coach and slightly insulting the media in the process. When was the last time a Bull said so much in less than 30 words?
And I wish I were Joakim’s friend, too. Or that someone will find his friends and try to dig some info out of them. (But I also hope they don’t give any, for Jo’s sake, because I always thought one of the worst things about celebrity would be telling something to someone as a friend and later reading what you said in a paper somewhere.)
Just waiting on some offense....
Great comment
I’m liking Noah more and more! Especially now that his performance has improved, his whole attitude seems a lot more credible. Definitely a breath of fresh air.
by Bullsfanabroad on Dec 25, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
What an ominous quote from Noah
something is going on in the Bulls locker room, either with the players or with the coaches.
And I want the Bulls brass to remember Hinrich’s “audible” when they are interviewing him for the head coaching position in 10 years. That crap play screwed the Bulls chances
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 2:01 AM CST reply actions
They are failing because they HATE ROSE. They have hated him from day one.
They all HAVE TO GO. We need players who are excited to play WITH Derrick Rose and not those who work against him at every turn. Rose is doing well DESPITE Vinny’s weak ass and the crap he has for teammates. I am talking specifically about Deng and Hinrich. THEY HAVE TO GO. The two “captains” have FUCKED UP the ship.
They are justifying because of their contracts and Deng somehow feels he should be the one to take the big shots at the end of the game when he cannot score on BIBBY!!???….excuse me? and yet Derrick Rose can take it into the chest of Josh Smith and get a layup. I hate to say it but Derrick Rose may end up leaving as soon as he possibly can.
I believe that Noah is GONE ASAP. He is tired of the Bullshit. Noah and Rose will both be All Stars on OTHER TEAMS. I hope that I am wrong, but I do not have any faith in JR or Management. None..
by Bart71 on Dec 23, 2009 3:48 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
As long as the Bulls get a decent coach (Byron Scott) and a free agent pick-up
we won’t have to deal with this shit. They’ll resign with the Bulls.
by Playboy_Bull on Dec 23, 2009 6:07 AM CST up reply actions
No way on Scott
Byron Scott will actually demand effort and hold players accountable. This team has too many crybabies on it for that to work. They want a “players coach” so that no one’s feelings get hurt in the locker room. I’d love to see Byron given a shot here but think GarPax are too scared to pull the trigger on it.
Reinsdorf will insult or offend
him in some way to run him off, D’Antoni wasn’t Pax’s fault, it was JR
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
it's fairly obvious at this point that both Rose and Joakim
are both gone as soon as they are able.
i don’t blame them.
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Dec 23, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
at this point yes
if they can pull out some fucking miracle where they bring in a competent coach and have even a tiny bit of success in the next two years, it may be a different story.
only a total clown would want to run their career into the ground struggling with this pathetic excuse for a franchise.
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Dec 23, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think they hate Rose. That's a strong statement
They might not like the situation they are in. From the coach to what players have been picked to be on the team.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Remember that stupid play in the end of the game (alley-oop to Noah)?
Now we know who fucked up and was not Vinny!
Del Negro said they were supposed to go on top for an isolation with Rose and back pick from Noah, who finished with 10 points and also 21 rebounds. But Kirk Hinrich lobbed, instead, at the rim, and the ball was deflected out of bounds.
via Sam Smith
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Shall I send out the save the date cards today or just wait?
Head Coach Kurt Hinrich introduced as the new Bulls coach….
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 7:54 AM CST up reply actions
Honestly.....I don't blame Kirk for trying that lob
He took a chance that the Knicks might have fallen asleep and tried to go for a home run. As it turns out, Derrick then took a similar chance with the underneath pass to Taj. At first, I thought Derrick threw a bad pass, but upon looking at it again, I think Taj was just guilty of having bad hands (as everyone already knows). As a result, Derrick shouldn’t have thrown the pass for that reason alone.
However, that tells you how little faith both of the PGs had in the “designed” play.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Did the Knicks show they had fallen asleep?
They were all over that “chance”. There was nothing there. Kurt was not throwing that lob to Dwight Howard. Too much Sportscenter for Kurt. That was Joakim Noah on the other end of that hail mary from Iowa.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
I should have clarified my point about Kirk
I didn’t really mean that he made the smart play, just that he had so little confidence in the “designed” play that a hail mary was worth the risk. I can’t blame him for not having confidence in the “desgined” play considering how putrid those have been since VDN has been here.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
While I hate Vinny
the thing that pisses me off about that isn’t that Kirk didn’t trust the play. But that the play was an iso for Rose. No matter how dumb the actually play was you need to give the ball to Rose at that point in the game.
it's "Kurt"
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Dec 23, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't think it was that terrible of an idea at the time
there was something like 31 seconds left, so maybe they were trying to sneak in a score so they wouldn’t have to foul the knicks when they got the ball?
But it wasn’t there, and it’s not like this team is good at lobs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Noah was triple covered, but at least Kirk gets points for thinking.
The far worse infraction was Taj’s inability to handle a bounce pass when he’s right under the basket.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
The inbounds pass to Taj? It was a routine bounce pass that went straight through his hands.
And if you’re talking about Kirk’s lob, well they are so boring to watch I’d rather them fail in new and spectacular ways.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Taj's hands do suck
but that pass also sucked, IMO
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Technically
Rose may have calculated for Taj’s poor hands by projecting that his feet would be a better target to receive the pass.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well that pass would have been better suited for Tyrus.
Taj is just not that good at catching that.
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
not a terrible idea?
lets not run the play drawn up for the guy who has just made 3 consecutive baskets, instead let me try a 30 feet alley oop when I haven’t thrown one in 2 years.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
ok, maybe it was a terrible idea :)
I thought going for a quick score wasn’t too bad of one.
But you’re right, Rose was on a roll.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
If Smith is telling the truth, Kurt was wrong
You have to respect the coaches play unless Noah was wide open with nobody around him then passit to him, but to break off the play and try that pass was bad. I actually feel bad for Vinny, but I will say again, this game brought positives. Salmons may now be benched for Kert “Play changing” Hinrich, we are still like one game out from the 8 th seed, and it seems the Bulls realise that they need Tyrus who will be back the next game. This team without Tyrus isn’t the same and everyone will realise this when he plays Saturday. If Kurt starts, Salmons should be motivated to get his job back, which should make him play better, and if this all goes as I think, the Bulls are about to make serious strides and we’ll be back in the playoffs!
I find it [cynically] refreshing that Garpaxdorf is forced to learn the value of BG and TT this way
Think about it…..the only difference from last year’s playoff team and this year’s team is the fact the two players they’re prepared to let walk are not here. I’m not just talking about any two players by the way. I’m talking about the #3 and #4 pick in their respective drafts….gone for nothing….scratch that….gone for cap space/pipe dream of replacing them with max free agents when they haven’t really secured the required cap space yet.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Dec 23, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
A lesson for Chicago fans as well
Too bad the poor judgements are being made at a strategic (senior management) level. I fear the bad decisions could have negative consequences for years to come. Considering their history, I don’t trust the current braintrust for upcoming personnel decisions.
That was a totally dumb play
He tried to throw a lob to Noah who was between two people (at least). All I remember is I saw more Knick jerseys in the air than Bulls jerseys. It’s not like it was Tyrus on the other end of that or somebody set a pick for Noah to get free. Yet this is your “captain”? Give me a break. The sooner these guys learn to give the ball to Rose and get out of the way, the better off this team will be.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
3 pts
Just read the box score, it’s easy to see how the Bulls lost this one. Only 3 three point shots made. Drama or no, you’re not going to win in this league with 3 treys.
You don't win in this league
if you don’t execute plays and come out ready to play from the start
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
Salmons:
“Ummmm yeah I’m most defiantly not opting out.”
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
And its that defiance that makes the opt-in all the more upsetting. ;)
Just waiting on some offense....
he really said that?
Or is that the added caption?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'm assuming it was a typo and should have been "definitely"
But to the extent Fish really said it, then I really mean my comment.
Otherwise I was just being an ass, because that’s what I do when my other option is total despair.
Just waiting on some offense....
Hey, you need not tell me the satisfaction of being an ass. ;)
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'm not sure what to make of this and it probably deserves its own fanshot, but...
I think this (read the end) best describes the crimes against humanity that is our offense:
At his locker near the entrance to the coaches’ locker room, Rose was asked if the Bulls are running fewer offensive plays than they did last season, when they had Gordon. For anyone watching the Bulls now, it seems like last season’s stirring playoff run never happened. For Rose, it’s as though someone wiped it from his memory.
“To tell you the truth, I don’t know what we ran last year,” Rose said. “I just forgot. I tell you, I swear, I forgot some of the plays that we ran last year.”
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Dec 23, 2009 8:14 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Hmmm.....I didn't take it that way, but I guess it depends on how you look at things
I took it as confirmation that they didn’t really run anything last year. Our late game in-bounds plays were comical at best and the offense more or less consisted of BG, Derrick, and Fish making things happen on their own accord.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I'm actually with Mr Rhythm.
even giving BG the ball to go one-on-five is technically a play Rose could remember.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Ah ha....so you did think those were actual "plays"
So does VDN deserve at least some credit for BG excelling in them?
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
unwatchable
Quit after the half. It was unwatchable. After putting up with the Ricky Sobers, Q Daley, David Greenwood, E Brand teams and now not being able to watch them is really bad. Time to cancel cable.
Cancelling Comcast cable?
If so, be sure to tell them it’s because of the Bulls and CC Jerry Reinsdorf since he’s a part owner of Comcast Sportsnet.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
cancel Comcast
because they suck, worst customer service ever, which we can probably blame on Reinsdorf
They were much more watchable in the second half.
But after that first half, I can’t blame you. I have absolutely no idea what kept me watching.
Just waiting on some offense....
for the same reason that everyone slows down and looks at a car accident
We want to see the extent of the carnage.
by they
u mean rose?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I watched most of the 1st half of the OKC-Lakers game, and watching well-coached, talented teams almost floors you after 8 weeks of mostly Bulls games.
Two offenses last night that actually force the defense to work… their sets involve players moving quickly and decisively and the same can obviously be said about their passes. It’s just an entire different level of basketball from what the Bulls play.
Rose could even learn a thing or two from Westbrook, who never lets the defense even take a breath, he’s just constantly moving North-South, whereas Rose dribbles too high, and from side-to-side, far too much. It’s a shame, too, cuz I don’t think Westbrook even has half the offensive ability that Rose has, but they have the exact same amount of college and NBA experience, and it’s clear that Westbrook’s understanding of the game at this point is lightyears ahead of DR.
Its also nice
when you can pass the ball to Durant, Green, and Harden, they just have a solid team.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 23, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
I switched to OKC being my favorite team about a month ago.
If they had taken Noah instead of Green, they’d be the best team in the league 3 or 4 years from now.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
they're the fastest team i've seen all year
Westbrook, Durant, and Green are gonna be faster than the other team’s PG, SF and PF about 99% of the time, so when they get out and run, they mean business. Also, Harden looks like a 5-year veteran already. Fun team to watch.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 23, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
And I know it was Andrew Bynum, but Durant really does have basketball skills.
And he’s already looking ungangly. He’ll only get better and smoother as he gets stronger and stronger.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I would say he is already a top 10 player in the league...
and in a couple of seasons, will likely be top 3 (behind Lebron and Paul)
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Do we have parts the Thunder would want for James Harden?
No, but I still want Harden.
I’m adding all the OKC national TV games to my DVR. They are fun to watch.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
I still think Harden will end up being the best of the players in this draft class.
Tyreke Evans is making a strong case that I’m an idiot. Maybe Harden won’t be able to truly excel, or take the spotlight, in OKC, but he’s already become their second go-to guy.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
He's really good
but Tyreke is on his way to being a star in the is league. The guy is a beast. Plus we still haven’t seen Mr. Griffin out in LA yet. I think Harden will be a good player for a long time because he doesn’t really on athleticism and that will translate well to his older years.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Tyreke's 20/5/5 is damn good
He falls into elite company, but I still don’t really like his shooting for a SG. I know Harden is a SG, but he’s really more of a Point Forward to me. He needs the ball. He can break down his man. He can split double teams. He can pass, finish, and he takes contact like a veteran. I know from watching him at ASU that he was player without comparables. I didn’t know anyone else like him. Maybe the closest was Lamar Odom.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
To a certain extent you can make stats say alot of things.
First, Lebron had 20.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 5.9 apg as a kid out of high school. His next year, when he was Tyreke’s age, he averaged 27, 7, and 7.
Second, MJ averaged 28 ppg, 6.5 rpg, and 5.9 apg. Evans is currently averaging 20, 5, and 5 on the nose. 8 points, 1.5 rebounds and 1 assist short is not really terribly close.
Thirdly, Oscar doesn’t even count! He averaged 30, 10.1, and 9.7. That’s almost a triple double. That is an unbelievable rookie year.
Evans is in elite company if you make those exact cutoffs, but the only one he is close to is LeBron and Lebron did it a year younger.
No one is saying he's in their stratosphere.
But numbers are numbers, putting that up with only 1 year of college experience and in an efficient manner is very impressive.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Wow, I agree with you on something.
Sweet.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Sefolosha played 33 minutes
and and filled the stat sheet quite nicely.
Despair in Chitown
The reality is that we do not have sufficient talent to compete. Not having a top quality coach doesn’t help but we would be terrible no matter who was coaching. My perception is that we are screwed this season. If we make a panic move now that undermines our ability to get a FA this summer we are digging ourselves a deeper hole. I hope I am wrong, but I do not see any way we can salvage the season. It seems that getting into the lottery and hoping for a good pick combined with a good free agent is our best hope.
PS – Wojonarowski has an excellent piece on D’Antoni. This is a snippet
The Knicks are a mess, and league friends of D’Antoni believe he has deep regret for passing on Chicago for New York. He let his ego and agent push him out of Phoenix, and let his desire for money over winning pass on Chicago. Make no mistake, though: That was two months ago and this is now. New York has a Garden winning streak of six games, and New York isn’t on his case for the holidays.
I liked the quote from the NBA scout in that article:
One NBA scout courtside insisted that, "Vinny ran three [different] plays the whole half and barely made any [play] calls. We don’t even know what to write down. They had a lot more variety last year, a lot more ball movement. It was almost like Vinny said, ‘Screw it, you guys figure it out.’ "
I'm sure D'Antoni feels a bit better every other Friday.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Woj's take on D'Antoni seems pretty forced to me
I mean, he passed on winning for money to go to the Knicks? Huh?
What winning have we done here? It’s not just money, the money (and the cheap hires that followed) is evidence that the Bulls weren’t super interested in winning either.
I don’t see why D’Antoni would want to go to a sitation in which the front office would obviously be working against him. That is, in fact, the exact reason he was leaving Phoenix.
by Sports2 on Dec 23, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and remember, when D'Antoni passed on the Bulls he didn't know they had the #1 pick
so it wasn’t like the Bulls future appeared that much better than the Knicks when he made his decision.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
It wasn't well-written, but it did say those thoughts were a month ago.
At that point, the “Infamous 7-Game” was still seemingly tangible along with early wins over San Antonio and Cleveland. If you think your the offensive God’s gift to basketball and you personally dislike Del Negro, you could easily envision winning a few more games last year, winning the 1st round, hoping you kept Ben Gordon, etc.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
As far as the Noah quote
He basically proved his point since what he did say to KC ended up on Twitter. The Bulls are just not very good this year and they needed everything to go right just to be an above .500 team. Of course everything hasn’t gone right so here we are. Some positives I was glad to see:
1. Salmons finally benched at the end because he was totally awful once again. I’ve been wondering why he plays so many minutes when he has been so terrible.
2. JJ getting a little playing time.
3. Rose continuing to look like he’s fully recovered from the ankle injury.
4. Deng shooting some 3’s instead of really long 2’s and taking it to the hoop more.
5. Noah was awesome as usual.
6. VDN had timeouts at the end of the game lol
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
You're right
I’ll say his effort was awesome as usual.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Deng, Salmons, and Kirk
96 minutes played – 3 assists
You read that right. Laughably inept offense. Mostly on the players.
Team had 10 assists for the night.
They can’t even run fastbreaks properly.
Bart had it right in a post up top. They hate playing with Rose. They do not like Salmons, TT, or Noah. I’m talking about Kirk and Deng. You can tell by body language and you never, ever see them talking on the court, playing as a unit.
Good to see Salmons took the benching well
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/will-bulls-lineup-changes-stick.html
“I guess it was said today that I’m pretty much the reason we’re losing,” Salmons said.
I guess this is what people were talking about when they said he hates coming off the bench.
His shitty play is the #1 reason
Its hard to coach when your guards in this league give you ZERO. Other than Rose, who has nobody to “fight” the other teams with.
agreed
could you imagine Rose in place of fisher on the Lakers
by sugarbear06 on Dec 23, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
I can imagine it
But I don’t want to.
by Stacey_Is_King on Dec 23, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
they also said he sucked because he came off the bench
so at least that theory is dead.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Wow.
That’s a really strong statement from a player. To just come out and take the blame like that.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I think it was the complete opposite
Salmons was saying he clearly is not the reason, and shouldn’t be treated like he is.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Right
like he’s insulted by it and doesn’t understand it.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
You're right.
I didn’t read the whole piece but looking at it now and hearing what he said on the radio, it’s obvious he was saying it’s not his fault. He was quoted on the radio as saying he was shocked he was benched. How can a player doing so poorly be so surprised by a benching?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I don't get that either
How can you not realize that you are playing terrible basketball and be surprised when the coach benches you? That is just mind boggling.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
he doesn't read his own stats!
how could he know?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Ha!
According to him. I don’t believe that crap for a second. Maybe all those bricks he’s been shooting should have given him some indication.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Larry Hughes syndrome.
“Why doesn’t’ anyone realize how awesome I am? Guess I better shoot more.”
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well it's not just Salmons
Our production at the SG was 7th in the NBA last season. The data has yet to be compiled, but I am guessing we are around the bottom 5 at that position this year. Salmons and Hinrich man that mission this year.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Wow
I feel bad for him, sort of. I don’t think he’s very good, but I think the main problem is he was put in a position he shouldn’t have been put in.
I thought you were talking about VDN
I had to click the up button to make sure.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
What position is that?
Do you mean starting, or shooting guard in general? I think he is playing terribly as a two, and probably should be playing three, but can’t because Luol is a much better basketball player.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Oh.
And Lu at the 4 is okay for short stretches, but is not the answer.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
for Salmons
I thinks its all about quickness. He can’t get to the basket anymore, so his jab step jumpers aren’t as effective and he’s not scoring on an insane amount off drives anymore. I think the move to the 2 has impacted him greatly, because he is such a one dimensional offensive player. He can’t go to the post, he can’t run off picks, he doesn’t shoot well on spot-ups – he is a strictly one one one player who is now facing guys he can’t out quick.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
You could say that about everyone on this team pretty much
including the head coach…. :(
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Yeah, but he wanted it, clearly.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
wow, great attitude
since Salmons didn’t check the stat sheet until sometime last week, let me update him – you suck. You have been playing awful all season and you have no right to complain about being benched. Salmons has had like 3 or 4 good games all season. He is a ball stopper and he has shown an inability to play with Deng/Rose. He’d be much better for this team as a scoring option off the bench, playing with JJ and Taj where he doesn’t have to pass to anyone.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 23, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
The worst part about this is not only that he doesn't seem to get that he's been awful
but that coming off the bench will probably make him pout and play even worse.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Both he and Miller should stay on the bench...
And Tyrus and Kirk should start the next game!
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 23, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I hate John Salmons. John Salmons sucks.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
News Flash
Hinrick is probably worst than Salmons. Salmon was worst than Gordon. VDN knows this, probably from practice evaluations. He’s not completely stupid. Explains his starting lineups for last year and present. But, why not prove 2 Hinrick fans how bad he is by starting him, much like he was forced 2 do with Salmons replacing BG.
News Flash
What?
I am confused.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
No Salmons
when you throw lazy ass passes at the end of games, when you drive and 3 people block your shot or when you shoot it’s lucky if the ball just hits the rim and you just drop your head thats when it becomes enough.
For all you experts questioning the knowledgeble VDN remember this
It’s easy to sit back on the sidelines and everyone has all these great ideas. People think they know what they’re talking about. But until you live it and do it, no one has an idea. All you (media) guys have to write and do your job and come up with stories and that’s all great. But you guys really don’t know what it’s like—because you’ve never done it.
That quote makes a lot more sense now
No coach in NBA history has ever blown a 35-point lead at home, so technically no one in the world understands what that’s like.
people all over the nba
are shking their heads that you could blow a 35 pt lead in the second half
by sugarbear06 on Dec 23, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
It was 25 points
if you’re counting by halves. We closed the half with a 25 point lead. Still awful though.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
"People think they know what they’re talking about. But until you live it and do it, no one has an idea."
VDN still doesn’t know either and he’s 1.33 yrs into his coaching tenure.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
hahaha i was just about to post almost the same thing
the shocking thing is how vinny doesn’t seem to have grown one bit since his first game. how is that even possible? is there any other job in the word where somebody could fail to get better at it after 400 days on the job and still be employed?
by Daniel Satan on Dec 23, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
The $$$....its all about the $$$s (paying as little of it as possible that is)...
I read your comment about OKC and here’s the thing. They didn’t hesitate to fire PJ Carlesimo when they realized he was a mistake. Think about that….he was coming from Greg Poppovich’s bench, so it wasn’t like they were axing some nobody, but they were astute to see they had made a mistake and sought to rectify it (I still don’t know why PJ thought Durant would be a SG, but I digress).
The other remarkable thing about OKC is this. I remember a few years ago when the NBA insiders on TNT, ESPN, etc. would talk about all the draft picks they were accumulating. However, they always talked about it in terms of being in position to make future trades and that’s the problem with NBA thinking. No one considered the thought of them DRAFTING good, young players. You can add Maynor to that list since he’s a rookie.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Yeah Carlesimo was a bad choice
I think an organization has to find a coach they really believe in and stand by that coach. Eventually, they will find the right players to fit that system a la Pop, Sloan, Phil and even D’Antoni. Steve Kerr didn’t believe in D’Antoni’s system and acquired Shaq, then went with Terry Porter who tried to change their style before finally going back to it with Alvin Gentry. Having said that, I think the Bulls should just cut their losses and fire VDN because it was a mistake, and find a coach that they can support. Maybe the real mistake was not standing by the coach they had (Skiles) instead of firing the players (Ben Wallace especially).
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
peteroc, i agree with a lot of what you have to say,
except in the 2nd paragraph, i don’t think that’s necessarily flawed thinking. i’d say about 95% of the time, when you’re trading a draft pick, you’re trading an unknown commodity for proven talent. a lotta times, you’d be better off getting the proven talent unless you have a top-3 pick in a 3-player draft, and the top 3 is somethin like Lebron, Wade, Melo, and even in that case, the #2 pick turned out to be a waste of money and time for all involved (Darko). nobody wants to draft the next Darko, Bowie or Olowokandi. even in Greg Oden’s case, everybody was saying he’s a sure thing and he would be no worse than this generation’s Dikembe. I bet the Blazers turned down dozens of offers for that pick… how’s that turning out for them so far?
i’d love for Bucher, Stein, and some of those ESPN guys to just do a feature before every draft where they go back in time and reveal every trade offer they heard leading up to previus drafts that was turned down, and just how many of those draft picks turned out to be better than the talent they would’ve returned. for instance, what if they said 4 years from now that the Bulls were offered Michael Redd for Salmons and the #16 and 26 from this past year’s draft? I think something like that would be interesting and if we had access to stories like that, I bet the NBA talent would end up being better than the draft picks a majority of the time.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 23, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Funny thing is, VDN is right!
We can’t know what it’s like until you’ve done it! That’s why most NBA head coaches coach high school, college, and/or assist in the NBA before they become a professsional head coach in the NBA. He had no idea what it was like coming in because he had never been a coach at any level. So, I agree with VDN. It would have been nice if he had some clue what it was like before coaching.
Fire that fucker.
astonishing
someone said that a nba scout was watching bulls and he noted three plays run for entire second half and that was it, no adjustment at all He had nothing to report.
That's a damn shame
when a scout has nothing to report because you aren’t running anything.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Doesn't that also save other clubs money?
Scouting the Bulls budget: Just zero that shit out. It isn’t necessary.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 23, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Lol
Yeah that’s true. That’s why I like the nickname Cash Cows.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
I'm beginning to believe NBA people don't really live on this Earth. ( I guess this quote it old but still)
The Knicks are a mess, and league friends of D’Antoni believe he has deep regret for passing on Chicago for New York. He let his ego and agent push him out of Phoenix, and let his desire for money over winning pass on Chicago. Make no mistake, though: That was two months ago and this is now. New York has a Garden winning streak of six games, and New York isn’t on his case for the holidays.
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2009/12/23/1217149/wojnarowski-dantoni-regrets
When theres no more room in hell...go to the mall
we are being laughed at
a rookie and a bunch of bench players came back from 35 points down and they showed us their nuts.
Turmoil on Bulls
is their division in Bulls Locker Room?What is this secret that Noah is hiding? Sounds like something big.
What happened to The Vision
The wisdom to replace Doug Collins with Phil Jackson, to bring in A rebounder like Rodman, a sixth man like kukoc, Ron Harper, are those people gone, or are they still in place.
Vision
(sorry)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
We all know Vinny can't
coach, and management has left the cupbard bare, no bench, why is Aaron Gray on this team(wasted roster spot), Lindsey Hunter should be a coach/practice player
Sorry about Salmons and Miller
We in Sac know all too well that they are not the kinds of guys to pull a team out of a funk. On the contrary, Miller is all about pouting and sulking when things don’t go well and Salmons justs shuts down.
In the jubilant Kings locker room after the game, Bulls center Brad Miller surprised his former team and immediately was showered with grief.
“I didn’t have anything to do with that (game),” Miller said, despite going 0 of 4 from the field in 22 minutes.
Oh yeah – WE MISS YOU BRAD! :)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
nothing really much to say, just wanted to see the current thoughts on the wanna be nba team we call the bulls
vinny sucks at coaching, miller sucks at being a center, salmons sucks being an nba player, taj sucks cuz he is playing on a sucky team with a sucky HC, hinrich has diminished since losing his role at starting PG, deng sucks in too many ways to sum up in one phrase, JJ is still fat with a DJ GQ (Juice) haircut, pargo sucks in many languages, therefore this = bulls suck, more than any other team, not only in the east, but the west also. Im not fooled by their double digit win column, THEY ARE THE WORST TEAM IN THE NBA!
"You know, when you said that last time, I was kinda trippin right. But now...you're right. I am crazy...But you know what else? I dont give a fuck."---Bishop in Juice
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 24, 2009 1:20 AM CST reply actions
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