Play James Johnson. Play him at PF.
Thonus makes a good argument for getting Johnson more minutes. I'm ambivalent on whether they label him a PF or SF, but Hunter should never see 22 minutes. That is unacceptable.
about 2 years ago
Basketball Smurf
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I don't think he has the case Tyrus had
Johnson’s PER is on an extremely small sample size. The only argument is that he can’t be worse than what they throw out there…but he could be, and Vinny needs to win games.
Not that I agree with Vinny’s mindset, but that’s the hand he was dealt.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 12:51 PM CST reply actions
in a game where taj is limited
by foul trouble, and our other PF is out, there’s really no reason NOT to play him. noah and miller can be out there together for stretches but luol can’t be playing more than 40 min a night by covering so much PF time.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
I think the counter to that is
VDN doesn’t need to win games at this very second. From what I’ve not read, there’s no indication he’s on the hot seat. If he turns this ship around by the end of the year, Peter Vecsey will vote him COY and he might keep his job.
If VDN thinks our current roster, with his coaching, is good enough to get to 45 or so wins and earn him a contract extension, then fine, play Lindsey and hold down the fort till everyone’s back in form. But if he thinks this roster could use another piece, it’s smart for him to invest in Johnson now.
I guess both sides of that argument are logical, but I can’t see why he wouldn’t try creating another asset for himself, especially when (1) Playing young guys worked so well for him last year, and (2) there’s likely no downside, as you said.
I think if they miss the playoffs he's definitely fired
I believe his 3rd year is a team option. Plus the Bulls will likely have to at least pretend they’re serious about their team at some point.
As far as why VDN himself couldn’t see how playing Johnson helps him….well, he’s Vinny. And as Doug points out, it’s a perverse Org. philosophy to reward ‘consistently’ bad over sporadic success.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather see Johnson get acclimated in practice
Then force him to force him and Tyrus Thomas him in the eyes of the public….he looks far more lost so far than Tyrus did coming in….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I've been rethinking player development strategy
and I think Sloan/Utah are on the right track. Ronnie Brewer hardly saw the court his first year until after the ASG. Even then it was not that much. His development came during practices. Then in his second year he played quite a bit.
So maybe a coach should have only one mission-win. Player development takes place during practices with player development coaches, which begs the question about the newly formed Bulls’ player development team. Are they any good?
Jerry Sloan and the Jazz
run an actual offense. This is what kept Brewer out of action in his first season.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Interesting point
On the other hand, Kris Humphries (#14 pick), Morris Almond (#25 pick), Kosta Koufus (#23 pick) haven’t done jack. And between the years of 1985 (Karl Malone’s draft) and 1999 (Kirilenko’s draft), the Jazz didn’t produce a single impact player for themselves in 15 years.
Who really knows how good Tyrus or Darko could’ve been with different development, or how average Aldridge or Bosh would’ve been had they been benched for their first two seasons by Skiles or Larry Brown. But I think players improve whenever they’re faced with challenges that they can reasonably be successful in, and properly managed gametime would give players the most opportunites to improve.
Ronnie Brewer seems like an exception to the rule. I can’t think of another college player who barely played as a rookie then turned into an above average starter though I’m sure there’s a few. And although it’s possible that Tyrus AND Thabo AND JJ all were actually bums, but it seems more likely that they were horribly developed.
I agree about TT, Thabo, and JJ
I like to check in on Thabo from time to time. He’s doing quite well. But maybe the Bulls are seeing the light, which is why they started a development program.
I hate it when it sounds like I’m whistling in the dark .
I don't know if he's playing that well...
Just on a team with Durant and Westbrook to allow him to not have to do anything on O.
His 6.5 pts on 40% shooting 1-1 Assist to TO levels are about what I’d expect.
He wouldn’t be helping us much at all (well except with Kirk out right now he would)….
He does rebound ok and is a nice defender, but there’s little upside in him because he simply can’t shoot and hasn’t shown any improvement in shooting or passing.
It’s a shame as I thought after his rookie year he’d get better offensively because he seemed to have the passing tools there and we were “told” he was more of a scorer coming in….
I always liked Thabo….had we drafted Blair with his pick we’d be grateful for that trade…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I think Thabo does have the tools
And looking back, getting a 6’7" guy with his defensive, rebounding, and around-the-hoop scoring abilities was a nice find for Pax late in the lottery.
But Thabo was given just 12mpg his rookie year at age 22. Then he averaged the same for the first two months of his 2nd season before the injuries piled up and opened the door for him. That means he wasn’t a rotation player until 18 months after he got drafted. For a guy who didn’t have much of a scoring game before coming in, the Bulls may have wasted an opportunity to possibly develop an all-around core piece. Instead his minutes went to Duhon and Adrian Griffin.
I think that Thabo’s being able to hold down a starting spot even without a developed offensive game shows the kind of player he might’ve been. Of course, I could be wrong, some guys just never figure out scoring regardless of playing time, but it looked like he had raw ability.
By this point in his rookie year, Brewer had played 16+ minutes in 8 games, 20+ in 6. He'd started 10 games!
When the Jazz had some injuries, they put Brewer out there.
By contrast, James Johnson has played 16+ minutes only once, in garbage minutes when Utah blew us out. He’s never played more than 20 minutes. He’s never played the meaningful minutes you get by default as a starter.
So I think the evidence is pretty solidly against your assertion here.
Keyword: Sloan
Vinny is more Quinn Buckner
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 3, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know what's going on w/ Doug and MrHappy...
…but Doug is coming off as an asshat that is way too sure of himself. If I cared enough, I’d probably argue with him, but man, he’s trying to sound like a know-it-all. Man, a rookie says he’ll play wherever they’ll play him? Go figure!!!
Johnson can play either position, hopefully both good enough to be a backup, but the ideal is probably small forward. He has the quickness and skills to hang with most of them, while being bigger and able to over-power them. I don’t think he has the quickness to get by most PF’s in today’s NBA. He’s not getting by Tyrus Thomas, Josh Smith, Chris Bosh, Melo, Granger, Jamison, Thaddeus Young, Blake Griffin, Jeff Green, etc. etc. I think there’s an argument for both positions, which is why he’s called a combo forward. Johnson wants to play SF (but will play anywhere if he can just get the chance, go figure!!!) and the Bulls project him as a SF. I think Thonus is way too full of himself to act like there’s no argument for it.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
But I do agree... he should play over Gibson at any moment....
….and over Miller if he doesn’t get his act together (meaning that I’d rather see Miller be good and play some Center with Noah getting a lot of minutes at PF instead of James Johnson).
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Yeah, in a nutshell, I think positions are overrated and complementary skills on the court are underrated
At this point, I don’t see a major downside to giving a JJ/Deng lineup some extended run and seeing what happens with it.
He doesn't really have to get by Thomas, Smith, Bosh, Melo, Granger, Jamison, Young, Griffin, or Green
He can just shoot the three over them. Then bait them into covering him out there. Then drive past them.
With improved handles James can develop a Paul Pierce like game. He’s too big and strong to deny getting him to ball to create. He’s going to be a SF and I’m comfortable telling Deng to guard the PFs.
In the least, I just want to see JJ get about 20 minutes in a game. I think he makes an immediate impact on both ends.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
I don't understand why you think JJ is such a great shooter. He shot 32% from college 3 and he's 1 for 7
so far from 3 this year. I don’t see much indication that he’s a great shooter, yet.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 2, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
NBAO never says whether making the shots is important.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
That's true.
He probably observes good form, too.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
So what
We’re still a bad team with few options, no money to spend, and no moves in the works. We have to get more out of what we already have.
I really don’t care if James Johnson shoots 25% from 3. I just want people guarding him out there.
I don’t his numbers from this year really tell you anything. When he has been out there he wants to make an impact with his shot. They’re bad shots he shouldn’t take, but he’s getting people to guard them.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Why would they guard him if he isn't going to make them?
Why not have Taj take them if it doesn’t matter if they go in.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
People won't guard him if he can't shoot. This is the same problem we have with Hin-brick.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Dec 2, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
MrHappy is a troll.
I don’t know what’s going on w/ Doug and MrHappy
"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith
by Granny Waiters on Dec 3, 2009 3:11 AM CST up reply actions
Hunter though
Probably played well in those 22 minutes for what we expected….he didn’t look too bad out there.
I haven’t seen nearly that production from JJ, who looks more than lost unless we’re down 25 points and the other team’s asleep.
I get that we want to get him playing time for development….but right now I think Johnson’s best in the practices, and once we get something going, hope we can slowly work him into the games…..but with us playing like crap and totally sucking, I think we’ll hurt his development more by having him play to net us even crappier results….
Course I haven’t seen a ton of him, but from what I have seen, JJ looks totally lost….
Now I wouldn’t like to see Lindsey play 22 minutes again, but that’s the issue with this roster….Pargo’s a good every 2-3 game need a spark scoring specialist that can’t be counted on for daily play because he’s horribly streaky and whent he shots aren’t falling he’s a nightmare…..and well Hunter shouldn’t really be on this team when we could have had younger producers….
But we have injuries….
I’d rather see JJ play over Aaron Gray though anyday, and would rather see Deng at the 4 and the fish at the 3 at times….then what we’ve been showing with Taj…..though I get it a bit with Kirk out now…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I am not saying bench JJ for the year...
But this early in the year he looks terrible and with us getting killed is forcing way too much….
It’s the GM’s fault we’re so freaking crappy right now (well Reinsdorf too with BG), but Gar didn’t plan well that one of our 2 real bigs (Tyrus and Noah) might get hurt….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
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