Game Preview #16: Bulls vs Detroit Pistons
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 10:37 AM CST
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PrintWhen I 'drafted' my portion of this year's season tickets (I know...why do I waste the money?), this game was at the top of my board. So, yes, I'll be a bit disappointed if Ben Gordon doesn't suit up tonight (and I'm further bummed he wouldn't go against Hinrich at least for a spell), even though his injury on top of all the other Pistons ailments (Hamilton, Prince, likely Villenueva also) makes this a much needed possible win for the Bulls. I got all season to see the Bulls fugly their way to .500 with some easier opponents, there's only one 'first game back' to see this season.
I won't go into 'what it meant' when the Bulls decided (and according to Reinsdorf, decided a season before) to let Gordon walk. You can read my rant from July 1st for that.
And not that the ramifications were meant to be determined in a month, but at least so far, the Bulls have proved to have missed Gordon more on offense than they anticipated. Or they did anticipate it and just blew smoke up our asses all offseason (likely). But it's not about being unbelievably mind-numbingly boring this season, it's about using that money elsewhere (because, as we know, the Bulls can only redirect funds, not allocate new funds) in the offseason. Nothing is determined tonight or even how either team finishes this season.
(I'd say that it'd be an ideal night to see Gordon get 50 and the Bulls still win, but then I'd have to read how it just proves that Gordon's scoring was hollow and he wasn't a winner...)
I'm interested to see how the Bulls fans receive Gordon (if he plays...there won't be any special acknowledgment if he's in street clothes) tonight. Judging by most UC crowds, there likely will be some jerks booing him (for correctly assessing his own value?), but it could also be mostly cheers. Maybe the current sorry-ass team makes the collective heart of Bulls fans grow fonder with his absence. It's like there are different levels of sophistication when it comes to being a Bulls fan regarding Gordon: You'll have the lowest seeing him being the points per game and therefore worthy of praise. Another level thinking they know a lot by criticizing his defense and, um, 'ball movement', to denigrate that scoring. And then the correct view of him being only a scorer...but being so damned good at it to the point where he was a good player. Then maybe another level wise to the Reinsdorf profit model and how this was possibly never a basketball decision? Or the lowest level that thinks Gordon was 'greedy' because they read the company line (or worse that they just hate 'spoiled' athletes)? The more I think about it, the more I see how divisive a topic Gordon's free agency realy could be. But if there's one thing consistent in the United Center, it's apathy, so it probably won't be much either way.
Heck, I'll bet a more rousing homecoming will be when Andres Nocioni plays his first game back. As far as tonight, I'll give a standing clap for Gordon and then take my usual place during the game sitting and mumbling and cursing Vinny under my breath.
I won't tell others there how to behave, but I'll say this, if you're going to give crap to a former Bull tonight, Ben Wallace is the Pistons starting center.
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Any "fan" that boos Gordon is an idiot...
I mean, really?
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
BG was my favorite Bull since MJ and Scottie
I agree that he correctly assessed his own value. I also agree that he was only a scorer, but that he was such a good scorer that he was…err…IS (why I am speaking as if he’s not still awesome) a very good basketball player. It’s unfortunate that the Bulls lost such a talented and respectable basketball player. I still don’t understand letting him go. It would probably sting less if Salmons was playing better, but as it stands now, I miss BG and hate Salmons’ beard, that weird “design” or missing patch of hair on the back of his head. His haircut in general…and his facial expressions, mannerisms ect. Maybe I should drink some Hennessy to help me cope with being a Bulls fan, a la Ron-Ron.
eeeee
I really don’t care. All I know is the Bulls stink and that’s all that worries me. I won’t boo or cheer Gordon, this whole thing about him is played out.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
It is, time to put Gordon talk to bed,
he is no longer a Bull
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 2, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
Go Salmons!
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
I'm going tonight as well.
I plan on cheering all game for him. And like you said I would love to see him drop 50 and us still win.
But I want him to do well, and I pray the fans show him some respect at least pre-game.
That Celtics-Bulls series that everyone love wouldn’t be the series it was without him.
Hell without him, we still might be one of the crappy teams in the league.
I really hope the fans give him the respect he deserves.
I wasn't so bummed to see BG leave
but more that we let a great asset go for nothing. However watching the team this year is making me miss him. I’m not sure if we would have more wins but I know that we would be at least competitive.
The Bulls
probably tried to trade him to he past 2 seasons, but its hard to get fair value when the league knows he won’t be resigned
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 2, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Gordon was always respectful and grateful to the Chicago fans
So for that I’m sure the Bulls fans will applaud during his introduction. But once the whistle blows he’s the enemy.
by RogersPark Kris on Dec 2, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions
I'll always be a big Ben fan.
He was a consummate professional and did everything that was asked of him, yet many, many fans found reasons to hate him.
- He sucks on defense: He may be a poor man to man defender, but he’s just fine when playing within a solid team defense. He was a big part of the excellent Skiles teams that were consistently atop the league leaders in many defensive categories. He was a damn good player, and I would say he’s one of the 15-20 best scorers in the league today.
- He costs too much money. His contract only was an issue because Hinrich is making 10 million. If the Bulls moved Hinrich last season for an expiring deal they could have inked Gordon and let Salmons, who would surely be playing better offensively if BG were still here, leave to free agency. Reinsdorf would still be able to sign a max free agent guy, and even if signing him would put the team a couple of million over the tax, I think he would do it, as a team built around Rose, Gordon, Deng, Noah and Bosh/Amare/Joe Johnson/Wade/Lebron/Boozer/Nowitzki would certainly be among the top teams in the league. You get a real coach in here, like Thibodeau from Boston, who can structure a sound defensive scheme and now the Bulls are perhaps the favorites in the East.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
by dakoose on Dec 2, 2009 12:54 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
when i read your title and
the words big ben were together… i thought u were talking about wallace.. but then i saw consummate professional..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Dec 2, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
This explains where the blame should go for failing to resign Gordon
http://www.blogabull.com/2008/4/9/121058/0117
I thought Sports2 was wrong at the time, but he was right.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 2, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gordon was really classy
The main thing I remember about Ben was he was a professional during a time when a lot of Bulls werent: the end of Skiles/Boylan/Vinny era. He also played like a pro getting all he could out of his limitations. I always thought he tried hard at D he just couldnt be a factor cause of height/defensive quickness.
As much as I liked him I wasnt sorry to see him go because it was just the situation previous bad financial moves had created. Basketball is a business and Ben personifies that more than a lot of players.
Final Thought- This is a half-the-time starter/6 man coming back to his old team that won 1 playoff series with him. It’s not an long time all star or returning member of a championship team.
in regards to the final thought
i agree and that’s why they’re not going to have a video tribute to him or anything. i mean yeah he played for the bulls for 5 seasons, but that will probably be a third of his career when it’s over and he was never an all star and the team got past the first round once.
and this is speaking as someone who liked ben a lot and wished the bulls could have found some way to get him to stay – though not for 11 million dollars.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
I didn't mean that they SHOULD do anything special
though I’ll be a little miffed when they do so for Noc later in the year :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Wait until the Hinrich statue is unveiled!
"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith
by Granny Waiters on Dec 2, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions
he should never have been a sixth man
He should have been a five-year starter and probably would have then been Rookie of the Year. I mean, Duhon started over him his rookie year (and others). That’s effin’ stupid.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I will never understand how Hinrich and Deng are making 22 million combined this season
yet we refused to even enter contract negotiations with BG last summer. Your point (I think it was a different thread) Tyger about how BG would’ve looked under Mike D and our subsequent ability to sell high and trade him is a great example of why I hate our front office.
It’s one thing to be cheap. It’s another thing to be stupid. But you just can’t do both and expect to succeed. Yet, somehow, JR is still rolling in money. Isn’t there something we can do???
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
stop going to games, stop buying bulls related merchandise
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
hmmm...
well, I don’t buy merch!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
But I've been doing those things for awhile!!!
actually that’s not true, I’ve been to a couple games in the past year or so. But usually the tickets were free!
The problem is, there’s just too many people in Chicago that know nothing about the Bulls but they buy tickets to games because it’s a form of entertainment. The crowds at the UC usually know little about bball other than some baskets are worth 2 pts and others are worth 3. I’m not even sure they know FTs are only worth 1…
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
For all 8 or 9 home playoff games we've had in the past 11 years?
I wouldn’t actually know, I’ve never been to a playoff game at the UC.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Game 6 was pretty good.
I can’t say anything about any other game, but game 6 was pretty good last year.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
I bet
I would’ve LOVED to be at that game.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
The seats were cheap!
$20. I mean, they were waaaaay at the top, but … yay. :P
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
i only went to one aganist the wizards
the first playoff game in chicago since MJ left…
good crowd, and we won…
and the nocioni chant was born that day
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
Just because we overpaid two guys...
Doesn’t mean we should overpay a third.
As far as I can tell, the equation to winning a championship is to have 3 NBA Star types (Kobe, Gasol, Odom or Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, or Howard, Lewis, and Carter, etc). You pay them well, then load up with role players / good rookies.
Unfortunately, there’s no point in paying Gordon 55 mil if it means we can’t get the number one and number two (Gordon is good, but he’s the third star in that trio) guys we need.
I think we have a great core with Noah, Rose, and Deng. (Deng has been playing well in my eyes, probably not enough to justify the contract, but he is showing that he’s close-ish). We need Salmons to get hot and opt out (isn’t anyone else worried Salmons will not opt out if he doesn’t play well, and thus hose the Bulls’ chance of getting a good FA), and then maybe a Joe Johnson type to give us that go-to scorer (and please don’t give him a max contract, he is not worth it). Deng and Noah have the potential to be your two and three, and Rose is that great player under a rookie contract (Bynum, Jameer Nelson, etc). We don’t need a LeBron or Kobe (nor are we going to get them) to compete, we need a consistent scorer who just needs to be one tier above where BG is, unfortunately.
Rose develops into at least a number 2, Gordon is a number 3, Deng is a number four, we buy a number 1 after trading Hinrich to someone for expirings
= good team? At least if you get a decent bench instead of the pile of crap we have.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
There aren't many of that.
Re-signing Gordon would have hurt getting a better player in some respects but it would have helped it in others (sign-and-trades).
Gordon isn’t overpaid.
1) As the trade of Nocioni shows, being overpaid does not prohibit a team from getting rid of a player for shorter contracts.
2) As Shaq’s multiple trades, Garnett’s trade and Gasol’s trade indicate, outright signing of players isn’t the only way to get a great player. There’s no reason that a team with Gordon can’t get another player better than him. If that happens, if Rose ever develops to be great, voila!.
Of course, the biggest benefit of keeping Gordon would be that they can still be a good team if they strike out on getting a great player.
Your argument has come and gone. It’s a poor one. As you said, even without re-signing Gordon, the Salmons situation makes a real chance that the Bulls will still miss out on a max FA. Re-signing or letting Gordon go both created ways to get a max FA and had reasons it wouldn’t work. The good thing with re-signing Gordon, though, is that if you don’t get the max FA, you still have a good team. If they don’t now, they’ll be even worse than they are now.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Well, the idea is that you sign BG with the intention of trading him or Hinrich
for either expiring contracts or in a sign-and-trade for a player like Bosh, Johnson or Wade/LeBron. As of right now, we don’t really have enough expiring contracts to sign one of those guys and we also don’t have enough assets to use in a sign-and-trade — so, in effect, by not re-signing BG we majorly fucked ourselves.
Even if Salmons does opt out (and that’s a big “if” at this point), we’re not guaranteed to have max money for a FA (and let’s not kid ourselves, Bosh, Wade, LeBron, Joe Johnson and Amare are ALL getting the max — too many teams with money) because of the shrinking cap.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Can we please end the myth that
Luol Deng is an important cog to a championship team? My question to everyone is…When? He was injured in ‘05 when the Bulls played in the playoffs and injured last year when the Bulls played in the post season. We’re talking about a player who isn’t a go to guy and a guy who needs an offense set for him to succeed. Outside of the Miami series, when in the world has Luol “injury prone” Deng ever proved he’s a necessary piece to a championship that everyone thinks he is?
Ben Gordon is the one who owns a NCAA championship(Beating Deng’s team by the way). Ben Gordon has gone shot for shot with guys like Dwayne Wade and Micheal Redd. Ben Gordon has proven in the post season that he was a money player and a winner. So in my world, you can over pay that guy because he’s actually done it. Not pay guys that look like they should do it.
You give BG the money and then begin to structure the team so that you give your young, star PG one of the necessities that he’s going to need to win a ring anyway… A guy who can hit the 3 consistently, spread the floor, and draw a double team. Maybe then Rose wouldn’t have to dish the ball to Brad Miller with the game on the line. We let one of the best in the business at that go.
Thank you!
Can we please end the myth that Luol Deng is an important cog to a championship team?
He’s not.
Remember when Jerry said:
Now, fast forward to the end of the year, we have [John] Salmons and we have a hell of a three-guard rotation with [Kirk] Hinrich and Derrick [Rose]. Ben wasn’t going to get a whole lot of playing time. [It] was going to be diminished. So Ben really no longer fit. Ben’s a terrific player. But Ben needs minutes. He would not have been happy with the minutes he was going to get
What an idiot. Vinny would be riding Ben for 40+ minutes per game with the way things have been going on offense.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
he's a respected basketball talent evaluator
or an bean-counter, whatever.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Geez
I hate our ownership/management/coaching staff.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
meh, the owners usually have all the power
at least Mark Cuban says so.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
Wouldn't you like to have an owner like that?
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
before someone jumps in saying MARK CUBAN HAS NO TITLES!!1!!
yes.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
I don't care that he has no titles
lots of owners have no titles. If not for MJ, Reinsdorf would have no titles. I just want a competitive team that can at least get to the finals.
Jesus, I’d take Cuban over JR any day of the week.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
Cuban wants his team to win,and will do anything to make them good
Why do the other owners hate him.Cause hes a fan as well?
If I were an owner, I'd be exactly the same way.
by Stacey_Is_King on Dec 2, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
*If I were an owner as rich as JR or Cuban
haha, I guess all owners are pretty rich. The main thing is whether or not the bball team is their main source of income.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
I'll Cheer Ben...
It’s not often a player leaves, and both makes your team better and a division rival worse…
Nah…who am I kidding? The Boo-Birds will be out in full force!
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 2, 2009 1:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm brain washed.
I believe 2010 is happening. I’ve even taught myself to like Luol Deng and Kurt Hinrich after years of bitching for them to be traded so we could resign BG. Sure BG was clutch but I’ve learned to enjoy 4th quarter collapses where Deng turns into a pumkin and Kurt Hinrich supporters say I wish Kurt was here to bail us out when he’s never bailed the Bulls out in his whole Bulls career. In fact I’m not sure he’s done anything his whole Bulls career but what do I know?
Oh yeah as far as BG he had a chance to sign with the Bulls and he didn’t, he maximized his wealth and thats all I think it was. It was a gamble and it paid off.
BG wanted to be as rich as he could so I can’t blame him. I will not boo and I will not cheer because I feel like both sides were at fault on this one and also I’ll be watching from my 64 inch Sony Bravia. I do know I won’t be wearing pants for this game.
I must be an idiot then
Hes with the pistons,I like him,but again hes with THE PISTONS!So yeah I will boo him.If hes with some other team sure.But with detroit?Screw him.
you're an idiot because you can't figure out the space bar.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
you're better than that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
yea, you got that going for ya
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
no big macs for a 100+ win tonight. instead:
by Protocol on Dec 2, 2009 2:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Drink a can of BG7
and you’ll grow a pair of balls on your balls.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
a pair of balls on each ball
or just an additional one pair of balls? :D
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
I imagine it would be just another pair of balls hanging from the initial pair -- double down?
(note to self – ::::::::don’t drink BG7 energy drink::::::::::)
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Yo Dawg, I herd you like energy drinks
So I put a monster inside your BG7, so you can drink an energy drink while you drink an energy drink when you grow some balls on your balls.
I love that quote.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
I think what kills me the most is this organizations ineptitude at identifying talent and keeping it.
They reward players who are good guys rather than good players. The fact that the same clowns are still running this show leaves me hanging by a thread and ready to bail if 2010 is a flop. Gar Forman was just as much the problem as John Paxson and now he’s the GM. They haven’t even addressed that MAJOR issue. A competent owner would fire these clowns for years of bone headed moves but like he said with Doug Collins he couldn’t fire him twice. Clearly JR does business the wrong way. He puts feelings into business and good people in front of bad guy winners. This is why he hasn’t won shit in basketball since MJ and Phil left.
The truth is as I have finally excepted it in my heart that JR is what is stopping this franchise and this city in enjoying NBA basketball like we once did.
I will leave you with this… No enterprise can exist for itself alone. It ministers to some great need, it performs some great service, not for itself, but for others.. or failing therein, it ceases to be profitable and ceases to exist.
Calvin Coolidge – United States President
I actually liked some of Paxson's draft picks except for maybe two.
I thought he started off great when he dealt Curry to the Kicks which turned out to be Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah that was absolutely genius or just Thomas being a bad GM but still that was awesome.
The Kirk Hinrich pick was something I understood because of the Jay Williams’ accident, it was a pretty solid pick because he plays defense and at the time was a pretty good shooter. However I never envisioned him being here this long. The problem I have is that they thought Wade would fall to them and they didn’t have a back up.
I loved the Ben Gordon pick. The Luol Deng pick was something that I never jumped on board with. I wanted Andre Iguodala and would still rather have him.
I liked both the Tyrus Thomas and Noah picks basically. I can except the fact that Tyrus maybe hasn’t lived up to his billing but I still like Tyrus Thomas as a NBA player.
Big Ben… I didn’t mind, I was just thrilled they signed a big time free agent since God knows when.
Part of me wonder’s if Paxson’s hands had been cuffed by JR. But still it is what it is.
I didn’t like that they signed Hinrich, Nocioni and Deng to such wealthy contracts without really doing anything. Also I thought Paxson lacked the ability to deal some of these players and as a result here we are now with BG gone and still no All Star in 10 years. VDN is another move I never liked. I can make you a list.
Seeing as how you liked with most of Paxson's draft picks,
identifying talent was not really a problem then. I agree that letting BG walk for nothing was beyond stupid. I hope TT does not follow the same route
hiring Del Negro
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
zing!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
wow, that's horrible
no hall of fame coach = coaching not important
I get you now. Thanks.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I would have rather they hired D'Antoni.
That was Reinsdorf’s fault, and you know it.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
You mean because they didn't
treat D’Antoni with the awe and reverence he deserves? And ya D’Antoni is awesome. 32-50 last year and 4-14 this year.
Stop it, please.
D’Antoni went to NY because they were willing to pay for a quality product, while here in Chicago Reinsdorf went to the dollar store and picked up a scrap heap coach. This is the mother-fucking NBA, rookie coaches(not rookie head coaches, but a guy that never coached at all. Ever. Period.) should not be getting jobs at all, let alone in a market like Chicago.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Phil Jackson spent years coaching in the CBA paying his dues
Vinny never even coached a fucking high school team. He would have been an embarrassing hire for a team like the Grizzlies. For the Bulls, it was disgraceful.
Tom Thibodeaux, Dwane Casey, anyone other than Vinny
Rick Carlisle, Avery Johnson, anyone.
I hope you're flame, because you can't possibly be that stupid
How many games would the Knicks have won last year with Vinny Del Negro as their coach? 20?
Because you're not considering the lack of talent on the team
For God’s sake, Chris Duhon was his only point guard. We used to bitch about Duhon as a backup.
So how about the lack of talent on this team?
Are you also giving VDN a pass?
It's not about that.
It’s the fact that this team does dumb thing after dumb thing. No offensive gameplan, dumb substitutions, awful extraction of talent from our one star player…. the list goes on and on and on.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
This team has talent, and had more talent last year
They would have won 50 games last year with D’Antoni, and 45-48 games with any mildly competent coach.
Tom Thibodeaux
Top assistant coach on a championship team – in what world was Del Negro more qualified than Thibodeaux? Besides the “working cheap” category, that is?
Yeah, and he'll be coaching in the NBA long after Vinny is fired and working in TV or something
At least Vinny’s got some great hair. That will really help him on TV.
Uh, hes been coaching for 19 years and has never been a head coach.
Put two and two together.
I'd rather go a young guys with no experience but has potential than someone with experience but who's ceiling
is assistant coach.
What potential does Vinny have?
He can’t even draw up a play. I have potential, maybe they should throw me hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
i didnt realize vinny coached a team to the final 4 the year he was hired.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
You either have basketball smarts or you don't.
Vinny hasn’t made one “good” decision yet. Really, when have you watched a Bulls game and said “Vinny, good call?”
SOme coaches are good with players, but the Bulls have been ignoring him for a while now.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Look, I loathe VDN as much as you do.
I’m just saying back then when he was hired the pool of talent wasn;t so great. I mean BIgD wanted Tom effin Thibodeaux.
or Rick Carlisle.
How’s Dallas doing this year? He had made it to the Finals with the Pacers hadn’t he?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
obviously. can you give a good reason why?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Thibs is a hot coaching prospect.
I think he’d make a pretty solid coach.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Reminds me of my meathead dad.
Anyone that’s not Michael Jordan is a bum.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Why isn't the reply button working on any of these comments anymore?!?!?
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 2:48 PM CST reply actions
Makes sense, cause mine's working now
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
first post
but I do check and read the site as much as I can. I’ll be at the game tonight, and I thought about how BG would be ‘welcomed back’ as well. I appreciate all that he did in a bulls uniform and I was lucky to be at Game 6 last season. Is it OK if I boo him now because he went to UConn? My allegiances to the SU Orange run fairly deep and he used to terrorize us back in college, but I could never root against him as long as he was wearing Bulls red. Other than that I agree with the points made in the article. I WILL be booing Ben Wallace like no other.
Do what you want, but if you're booing UConn
boo Villanueva, who screwed the Illini and bolted east. I’m happy to have a Pistons team that I can outwardly cheer against again. I always found the Billups, Hamilton, Tayshaun, Ben Wallace core too rootworthy to hate.
yeah never liked “Caveman” Villanueva either. If I remember correctly, didn’t he renege from the Illini after Bill Self left? I was too young for Hamilton’s UConn days, but he can eat it too.
You mean Lex Luther Villanueva?
Dude has no eyebrows…
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
He has no body
hair because of a disease. He can’t help that he has no hair. A couple of years ago when the team he was playing on then was in Chicago he had a lunch for Chicago kids who suffer from the same disease as him.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
i dont really understand why when a person has a disease we say we cant make fun
of that person because he cant help that he has the disease, but if someone makes, lets say, a fashion decision to remove all hair from his body, then that person can be made fun of. as if people really control what they like and dont like.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I can never root against BG
even he plays for Pistons now. I will root against the team but never against him.
"You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless! You gotta hope even more, and cover your ears and go 'bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!'"
anyone know
is bg definetly playing tonight? I know he had a messed up ankle or something….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
If I was there, I'd be rooting against Gordon
But I hate any UConn guys.
This would be one real satisfying win though.
Is Jerry Angelo fired yet?
It’s going to be painfull to watch BG in a Pistons uniform
and worst if the Bulls because of him. We should never forgive Reinsdorf for what he did
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
yes
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Dec 2, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Um
rec’d.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 2, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
lets root for the meddlesome billionaire!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
I like BG too
Just saying that some of the Paxdorf hate in here is irrational.
being a Bulls fan is irrational
so it’s all just further steps off the cliff :)
But seriously, you said above that hiring VDN wasn’t a bad mistake…c’mon.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 6:11 PM CST up reply actions
What were the other choices?
I agree he has been awful but at the time there were really no other candidates out there.
The Bulls wanted Collins or D'Antoni so they settled for VDN
after they were either hired by another team or backed out. Not sure you can really fault Paxdorf for that.
D'Antoni backed out because Reinsdorf took his time deciding.
And they could have “settled” for a real coach. I can’t believe you’re not more pissed off that they absolutely bungled Rose’s first two years of development. He has not gotten better at one thing since he’s been in the NBA.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
his jumpshot is not much better than last year: .41 eFG vs. .42.
and i doubt improvement in that area would be attributable to the head coach anyways.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
You really are an idiot.
You do realize they actually DO have these stats so people can look them up.
He shot 49% in his first full month last year. How’s he doing this year?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
okay...
his FG% is lower. you either take jump shots or close shots. If you claim his jump shot is better but his FG% is down, then his close shots are worse. Great. The one thing that Rose absolutely excelled at the Bulls have ruined. Wonderful.
He can’t be a better jump shooter and the same close shooter yet have a worse FG%. It’s impossible.
Idiot.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
you should try and force yourself
to actually read the comments you reply to.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
LOL, are you two the same people?
Actually, you should also force yourself to read his comments too before telling others to do the same. Besides, all he has to do is post the stats.
its pretty simple reasoning. you dont
need stats on this one. his FG% dropped over the course of last season, not catastrophically but it dropped nevertheless. since it is true that you are either shooting jumpers or you are taking close shots, one of the two had to go down over the season. if rose got better at shooting but worse at finishing, i dont see how thats a victory for the coaching staff.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
The previous guy said Rose hasn't gotten better
at anything since he has gotten into the NBA. I simply said his jump shot has gotten better. Where or not this is a victory for the coaching staff is irrelevant to his original statement. I agree that Rose hasn’t shown much improvement but to say he hasn’t gotten better at anything is nothing more than hyperbole and should be treated as such.
wow. your mind...its like a neutron star or something.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Any assistant coach in the league is more qualified than Vinny,
as at least they have coached in some capacity, as opposed to Vinny, who you know, coached less games than I have when he got the job.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
He was a last minute choice after the two prime candidates backed out.
How is that Paxdorf’s fault? I’m sure if they somehow knew he would suck this much they would never have hired him.
Last minute?
They couldn’t have called anyone else? Who set this deadline you speak of?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
So effing what?
You think they actually cared about what Vinny wants when they drafted? I sure hope not.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
what? under which coach do you think they pick someone other
than rose?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
hey awesome. i wanted beasley. so what.
again: under which coach do you think they pick someone other than rose? of course since you erroneously believe there were no other candidates, i guess you cant answer that question.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Depnds on what direction the coach and GM wanted to go in.
And as for you wanting Beasley, it shows that your talent evaluation may not be as stellar as you think it is.
this org was never going to go for a wild card
like beasley, regardless of who the coach was. and when did i ever say i could evaluate talent? unless you mean vinny, which would be dumb. but consider this anyways: which team would you rather have now PG-rose SG salmons SF-deng PF-thomas C- noah with hinrich and miler off the bench; or PG- hinrich SG-gordon (because without rose im assuming they sign gordon) SF- deng PF- beasley C- noah with salmons miller and some guard/wing off the bench. i actually think the second team is better now and maybe going forward.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
oh, and thomas off the bench too in the latter case.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
oops, taj off the bench in the first case.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
oh c'mon, you didnt even think about it.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Is what you said worth thinking about?
I’m not sure your basketball IQ is all that high.
i simply presented you with two different situations
and asked which one was better. then i asked if you just gave a kneejerk response because of a justifiable attachment to rose/the team as we know it. how does basketball IQ even enter into this?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
You are entitled to our opinion.
I happen to think that the first team is so much better than the second that it not even worth mentioning.
you dont think a professional basketball franchise hiring a coach
who had never had any coaching experience at any level could have seen that that would have a high probability of disaster? thats unbelievable.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
yeah, that one was more Ben's call.
but Deng didn’t take it either.
Plus it was the Bulls trying to get a sweet deal for signing early, not some ’dorf benevolence.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
What bothers me most about letting BG go
Is that everything “BG lovers” said about BG and what it would mean to lose him as happened so far. You stunted Rose’s growth by taking away the one guy who took pressure off of him, We can’t close out games, and the defense you gain with him gone doesn’t equate to the offense he gave. People actually get paid to make these decisions and we can predict these outcomes for free.
yeah but who can put a price on staying under the tax?
well, you can put a price on that, it’s a lot.
That’s the real push behind the 2010 plan (a ‘careful design’, as Doug Thonus once told me)…you’re reducing future contract obligations, even if they ‘fail’ they still have that in the bag.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 2, 2009 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
It’s not so much about what the Bulls couldn’t do economically. If we’re talking about what’s the best for this team going forward I say keeping BG and what he brings is more valuable than what Deng and Hinrich brings at their best.
What he brings was instrumental in Rose’s development. Others don’t think so. I think the Bulls could of built around that backcourt and won with it. The failed at that.
I hope Ben plays....
So I can lol when he kicks the ball out of bounds on a baseline drive.
Enjoy your 5 years of Hell in Detroit.
Career playoffs percentages are lower than Ben’s regular season #’s. Only time he was clutch was 3 games against Boston last season. You guys were blinded by his excellent 3 pt stroke.
Good to know, thanks
I wish him well, against other teams.
For some reason BG was a polarizing figure. You either loved him or hated him.
I think I was somewhere in the middle.
What I don't understand from the Gordon backers
is the forever-mediocre team the Bulls would have been if they signed Gordon to a 5-6 year contract. If you think that Gordon should have stayed, you should also believe that a lineup of
Rose
Gordon
Deng
Thomas
Noah
can win championships barring a major trade. While they’re worse this year without him, I’ll take the low probability of getting a great player next offseason, and thus being championship-bound, than just years and years of above-average play.
sign and trade my friend. and security if the improbable 2010 plan fails.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I think Gordon should have gotten a deal and Hinrich shouldn't have.
At the very least, Hinrich should have been traded for an expiring, perhaps Raef Lafrentz’s.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
He agreed to the damn deal,
Reinsdorf was too stubborn to make it happen. I think the Bulls made the wrong decision, giving extensions to Deng and Hinrich instead of BG. I never bought into the Deng hype and have never been a big Hinrich guy. I still think Ben can be a valuable piece on a championship team.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
What's your point.
As a fan, we have the past at our disposal when judging management. I think management made bad decisions with Hinrich and Gordon, and I think I should be allowed to express the appropriate displeasure.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I for one think its better to whine about could have beens and should have beens.
It makes my decrepit life seem that much better.
I think that's a better team than what we have
as oppose to banking on the offseason. Remember, you’re talking about a better Noah and Deng to go with 20pts a game and a clutch shooter from the 2-guard spot. If you had BG this year we may have 3-5 more victories and a playoff experienced team.
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