Lakers 96, Bulls 87: Effort slumps, talent doesn't
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 12:04 AM CST
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Print| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| LA Lakers | 93.0 | 103.2 | 48.1% | 25.3 | 17.1 | 14.0 |
| Chicago | 93.5 | 39.6% | 11.5 | 41.5 | 12.9 |
Before firing up the DVR for this one, I checked ShouldIWatch?com, and figured the 20 point loss. Nope. And it wasn't a 15, nor 10 point loss either. It was a 9 point loss after Luol Deng hit a meaningless three as the clock expired. If only the algorithms could've been tweaked to account for such things...
Though I'm actually glad it didn't. Not that I wouldn't watch it anyway, but watching and knowing the result would've made this certainly less enjoyable, as even though it never really felt like the Bulls were going to beat the Lakers Tuesday night, it shockingly didn't feel like an impossibility either.
The Bulls certainly dished their best opening blow, shooting a crazy percentage and 31 points (the Bulls!). But Kobe Bryant had 20 on his own and the Lakers scored 31 too. Right then it was correct to be worried, and over the course of the game the Bulls reverted to their cruddy shooting percentage and offensive inefficiency.
But they did certainly bring more effort than they had against much worse opponents, most evident on the offensive glass, headlined by Noah's incredible 14 rebounds on that end (20 overall). Noah was all over the Lakers less-mobile frontcourt tonight, another achievement in his season, possibly the lone undeniable bright spot for the Bulls in the year so far.
Other solid nights from Brad Miller, Derrick Rose (who came back from an early rib(?) injury and exploited the Lakers poor defensive PGs) and Kirk Hinrich, who managed to make me think of his defense as simultaneously underrated for the way he guarded Kobe Bryant, yet overrated because it didn't matter. Bryant's game is so refined, and any further praise is better left to those watching him more, as I'm guessing we only got a sample. And while the Bulls would try help, the passes and movement (real 'ball movement', not the wing-it-around-the-perimeter-hot-potato-until-the-clock-runs-out stuff the Bulls do) would also make them pay, though an awful shooting night from Ron Artest and a fairly passive (though give Noah credit for this) night from Pau Gasol made the pain much less than the usual Lakers dominance.
And sure, if the Bulls played like this every night they may have won more games up until now. But while they (I dunno, someone's said it somewhere) say shooting can slump but effort doesn't, effort undoubtedly isn't there for all 82 games. It can't be, and the franchise's unreasonable reliance on it for success keeps them from being as good as the teams the rely on talent.
It does indicate that the Bulls haven't completely given up on VDN. They're still a professional group, and while it means they're not tanking games before they step on the court, they also know within a game when they don't have it. Tonight they started hot and stayed close. But we can't expect any trend to come of it, as the effort wouldn't always need to be there if they were a better assembled and coached team.
A couple random things that bugged me:
- I'm going over old territory, but why does Neil Funk insist on ripping players from opposing teams? I'm all for making fun of the less fortunate or able (in basketball, and in life!), but the Bulls are one of the worst teams in the league. Pau Gasol is miles better than any player the team has had in 10 years. Yet they spent the whole game ripping his play. Can't they instead laud Joakim Noah for doing what he did against great players like Gasol? Neil Funk sucks and he's blind. (alright, I did like him and King using Kobe's performance to further rip dancin' Lebron)
- Shannon Brown had a nice game, giving token pressure to Rose and shooting perfect from the field, ranging from a 3-pointer to a thunderous breakaway dunk. I won't fully commit a 'why couldn't my favorite sports team keep that guy they once had who is now good on another team!' rant, but it is a bit annoying that the Bulls couldn't even give him (even though he was an impending free agent) more than a 22 minute tryout during a completely lost season. A real Org. during such a year tells bozo interim coaches to play guys like this over Larry Hughes.
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As far as Shannon Brown tenure as a Bull I think the belief was that the Bulls had too many guards.
Funny today we have too many bad guards. I remember a game against the Pistons when he came in and proved great energy off the bench. I remember mentioning how I’d like to see him as like a back up player. But the popular belief was there were too many guards. But I guess thats the way it goes with the teams in this city. Basketball/Football could be in a Bulls or Bears jersey and management would even notice. Not that Brown is a star but he’s a great role player. For the Bulls to not notice his value is kinda disappointing but you get used to disappointment in this city.
I noticed Doug called it heart and you called it professionalism but I just felt like some of these players were trying out for the Lakers. Noah is up in 2 years and he’s said to love LA and has friends there. I wouldn’t be shocked if some of these guys ‘showed up’ just to audition for a new gig. Heck even Rose has said he loves LA and would love to live there.
I just felt like they were trying just because it’s the Lakers. They looked focused and interested. People keep saying these team is bad but I just think half of them don’t really care about this season as much.
I do think the Bulls have a run in them though. Once Tyrus comes back I believe they might be able to make up some ground on some bad teams. I don’t think the playoffs are completely out of reach in the East. If they can get this type of effort combined with a healthy Tyrus Thomas I could see some better days. But they have to care and not just get up for the Lakers.
You are saying the bulls made a bad decision involving a trade of potentially good player?
What else is new, pal??
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
Good Catch on Shannon Brown
I thought everybody slept on him, was a throw in, in a trade I forgot which one, but I remembered him from Proviso East team where he played with Dee Brown, man he could jump out the Gym in high school, went to Michigan State had decent career there when he came to the Bulls he was so excited to be coming home, we never gave him a chance basically just threw him away, a good organization would have saw what Los Angeles now enjoys, that vertical leap, smooth jump shot, and Chicago playground pedigree.
That was the Boylan coaching era
33 wins that season and we still didn’t play Brown.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
I remember him being athletic but I don't remember these hops do you guys?
Maybe he never got a run way but this is new. He must not wanna leave LA.
i remember seeing him on the bench for the Cavs, not too long before he was traded here
and he looked ridiculously overweight. i think i even remember doug collins mentioning this during a TNT Cavs game that year.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 16, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
sometimes you get lazy on bench
but ballers from chicago have a edge to their game, he never saw the court. They were looking to get rid of him as soon as they got him, he had some awesome dunks in High school and at Michigan State, he went in 1st round, we should at least tried to develop him, if we can see talent in Aaron Gray then we cannot see Shannon Brown.
We see height
in Aaron Gray. Unfortunately, it can’t get off the ground. I would bet that Shannon Brown can get 6-8 inches higher than Gray (measures at the top of their jump)
paxson
I really think he knows nothing about how to put a team together, and what is our offensive and defensive philosophy.VDN puts these mixmatched lineups with no consideration of matchups.
Brown has always had a spectacular vertical
I’m not so certain about these weight concerns. He just couldn’t get into rotations because the players in front of him were better.
I was surprised that Charlotte signed him in 2008. He played and then got packaged with Adam Morrison to the Lakers. Since then the Lakers have been able to get tons of value minutes out of him. They’ve played him at PG too.
I think his game has excelled in the Triangle. He doesn’t have to dribble as much in the half court and when he needs to in transition he’s got the legs to finish the way he did last night.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sarnath'd, see below. :P
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
He's always had the hops
If youtube wasn’t blocked at work I would link to him damn near jumping over some dude when he was at MSU.
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
He was always ridiculously athletic
There are some Cavaliers highlights in limited action. I think Brown’s just found a place that needs what he provides. :)
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
if you read my post below...
if the org. doesn’t care about this season, how can we expect the players to?
i sadly kinda agree with your “try out” thing. Noah was so eager to shake Phil’s hand as Neil pointed out, but i disagree with him that it was out of respect or whatever, at least respect in the context of the Bulls. i agree with you now. red sneakers aren’t unique enough. he wants to wear those purple kicks. LOL
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm starting to believe that he's realizing big deal MJ played here.. MJ made the Bulls.
The Bulls didn’t make MJ. He has that palm tree poster in his locker. He would probably kill to play for the Lakers. Sunny weather a shit load of money and fake assholes as far as the eye can see.
In two years Phil will probably have a front office job and the Lakers will be retooling for their next title run so yeahhhh anyone who says this is heart is sorely mistaken… these players are greasing the wheels for free agency and maybe even a trade.
Look what Hinrich did tonight! In three years when has he played that well? He’s begging for the Lakers to deal for him.
So yeah I believe they were showcasing tonight. People want the fuck outta here.
man it gets even better.
“I just wanted to tell him I appreciate him and what he stands for as a coach,” Noah said. "I’ve been a fan of his for a really long time, even though I loved the Knicks as a kid and he used to kick the Knicks’ ass.
“My father always made me read his books. I read ‘Sacred Hoops.’ And one of the books he used to make his players read, ‘The Peaceful Warrior’ by Dan Millman, my father made me read that when I was younger. I just wanted to share that with him.
“(Bulls director of player development) Randy Brown tells me stories about Phil and everything I hear about him is just so positive. I wanted to tell him I was a fan of his.”
And the money quote!
“He told me some things too that I’d like to keep to myself,” Noah said. “It makes me feel good though.”
Phil: We’ll get to you in two years! Until then keep working on that rotation.
the lakers have bynum
they wouldn’t give noah a contract that he deserves
even if that's the case, the mere potential of the things mentioned in this post are sobering and disheartening
the scariest thing is, if the Bulls can’t land one of the BIG stars in next summer’s free agency, Rose might not stay past his rookie contract. until now, i never considered that possibility, but with every L, it shakes your confidence as a fan.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 16, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
cannot stand losing
Rose cried after he lost an aau game in high school that is what Calipari said drove him to want Rose so bad.
by sugarbear06 on Dec 16, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Besides
you can bet that when Kobe retires so will Phil. My guess is that’s in about 2-3 years.
Phil's smart enough to walk away from basketball when he's ready to.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 16, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
shannon brown should be starting for the lakers
he does everything that lakers need from a “pg” he defends somewhat, can his an open three, and does well in the open court. they dont need him to dribble. which is good, since he can’t.
its amazing...
obviously you can tell when you look at another team in a game and see how their roster fits, who’s good, who’s not, but i get so frustrated looking at other teams bring these guys off the bench, inexpensive players, and they just seem to have something to contribute. something, you see talent or skill or whatever. and when i look at some of the guys on our team, its the complete opposite. what does Hunter have to contribute? Gray? Johnson (i know, rookie, but still)? Pargo? thats almost half the team right there! and then Miller, Gibson, Salmons, Kurt are really a step above that. Noah, Rose, Deng, and Tyrus are the only ones worth a damn on this team right now. and that just doesn’t cut it.
i know a player like Brown for instance, might go to the Lakers because he can play some minutes on a champ, but couldn’t some other team (like the Bulls) have signed him for the same amount or maybe more in a situation where he knows he’ll get good minutes? seriously, i see it on every team in this league, and the Bulls are wasting time and money on Hunter and Gray. they have no urgency to win. they are willing to rest their laurels on 2010, and if that doesn’t work, then they are hoping they can ride Rose (if he doesn’t leave) until they land another MJ. that is a crime to such a large and loyal fanbase. its so contrary to all other organizations in all sports. yeah, some teams rebuild, sure. but in places like Boston and NY and LA where they make money no matter what, they have championship traditions and the urgency to win more. ven the Cubbies, lovable losers, have an urgency to win. meanwhile, the Bulls have the 3rd most titles on the NBA, and recently too, AND they make tons of money, and there is no urgency.
the time to win is now. that should be every sports organization’s mantra. especially in a place like Chicago.
now i’m done with my rant and will go be sad and watch the rest of these games.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Dec 16, 2009 12:28 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I dont feel that bad for this loss
Not because it was the lakers, and we were “supposed” to lose, but it made me think that if the team we have right now ACTUALLY play hard, focused and together, they can compete.I seriously was thinking blowout for for sure, but was pleasantly surprised. Im not going to get my hopes up though, because after all VDN is still HC. Just wanted to say that Im ok with the way we lost this game. Still sucks, but bearable. Its gotten to the point that thats all I can ask or hope for.
"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2
P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy
by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 16, 2009 12:31 AM CST reply actions
The main nugget i'll take from that is: Neil Funk blows.
I really, really have gotten annoyed with him. He has the enthusiasm of someone that is terminally ill, he’s constantly ripping other team’s players for the strangest reasons (as you pointed out), he NEVER has any clue what is happening on the floor, which is why he says dumb shit like: “Derrick Rose with the nice two point shot!” then, “Oh wait, that was John Salmons with a three.”. Hell, I even hate looking at him! It know that like/dislike of your teams announcers is always related to that teams performance, but even last year when we were going great I still couldn’t stand him. I really think he’s gotta go.
Vinny Del OH NO!
I wish we could get someone who was not blind to be our announcer.
I don’t know, it seems like a requirement of the job.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
He did a good job on the radio. There when he said something completely wrogn
I could just believe him. On the tele though, he isn’t so good.
After seeing Rose get angry with Luol Deng by rolling his eyes and shaking his head at him....
The more I think Deng needs to be sent away. Salmons is playing bad and should be benched for Kurt immediately like I figured and wrote about before the season started. But Luol Deng is starting to really show himself to be a selfish player and arrogant person. He said that the Bulls got rid of some bad apples at the beginning of the season implying chemistry would be better, he said he didn’t think Kert and Tyrus would have made much of a difference in the 30 point blowout losses, he said that the team not playing better may get someone traded away( of course he didn’t mean himself) and now he apparently blew Rose off by ignoring him in the game vs the Lakers. Deng IMO needs to be traded away. You can go to almost every team and find a SF who can do what Deng does, maybe even better. I ‘ve had it with him moreso than Salmonsbecause at least Salmons is humble and can get out of his slump. If we can trade Deng for a good SF which shouldn’t be hard to find we’ll be much better and the team will have better chemistry.
Deng is a ballhog that can't iso
This is a bad combination.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
hah
i never thought about it that way but yea…
I dont hate deng or his game thus far, i think the comments are being taken out of context more than they should be and the losing season is just making people see more red they should. Deng is actually a good player, he shot 50% from the field against the lakers, he has been showing improvement in shooting the 3, and i think with the right team and right system (seriously the skiles system was perfect for alot of these players, especially deng and hinrich) and deng is an efficent player on both sides of the court. THe problem is with a losing season, our star player not playing at a star level, and the rest of our “good” players unable to be good, not to mention the constant reminder of how the loss of gordon went down, people are viewing deng in new light, that i dont think he deserves even with his contract…
Keep in my people, dengs contract might be the highest paid on this team, but ultimately it was designed for him to be somewhere like the 3rd best player on this team. Add any of the 2010 big names to this team, and dengs contract and his play becomes ideal..
The reason deng should be traded has nothing to do with his comments, or his contract, but more because of philosophy….is deng a good fit with rose? is deng a good fit into this coaching system (if such a thing exists) in whatever vision the organizaton has for what this team should look like (yea yea i know, cheap) does deng fit, or are they trying to force him to fit….?
Again if skiles was the coach, we would see less problems with dengs play cuz skiles utilized him the right way, which is why he was so efficent during 2006, but skiles isnt so the question is can we get a coach that knows and needs to utlize deng…
My thought is if we get bosh, we get a player who can do what deng can do, plus more, and for that reason i am willing to trade deng for a more consistant 3 pt shooter or just to better the chances of getting bosh, but i wouldnt want deng gone because i feel he is at fault for something that is really just fan speculation and scapegoat transformation…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Skiles utilized him in the right way
and he did have a good 2006 year but he also had a down year in 2007 and Skiles was still the coach. That was the year he was being shopped to the Lakers and didn’t get an extension before the season. I just don’t like his game at all. All he does is shoot really long contested jumpers, has no handle and doesn’t pass hardly ever. Maybe they really should try him at PF because it seems to better suit his skill set.
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
the 2007 season,
skiles was only the coach till christmas, and then boylan took over, and deng also had played overseas that year. Not to mention that the locker room had become dysfunctional quickly into the season…i think the way i understood the story, the players quit on skiles, and skiles basically quit on the team….wasnt there someone who reported that skiles walked up to paxson and said to release him cuz this team wasnt responding to him anymore? At any rate that one down year i wont put on dengs actual ability to play, he wasnt where he should’ve been to start the season, and the system changed about 40% percent into the season, while the team quit like 30% percent into the season….then the next year he got injured…..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Dec 16, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
I've never
seen Deng this aggressive, this is a different side of Deng, these past 3 games he has played w/ a lot of hunger
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 17, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
he wasn't a ball hog in an offensive system that didn't require him to iso
it’s the system. it sucks that’s deng’s deal, but it is. if the bulls would only get a competent offensive coach, they could keep him.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
ok
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I don't want to re-type everything, so I'll just refer to
this discussion and this discussion as pretty accurately describing what’s going on with the Bulls on the court.
I don’t think it’s all coaching. I think the coaches expect a hard screen that frees up Rose.
Instead, Deng and Salmons half-commit, Rose is stifled, and there’s no “roll” whatsoever. So Rose gives it up to them and they get an iffy iso opportunity.
It doesn’t seem like this is the goal, however. Without a good pick, the whole play breaks down and results in that. With a good pick, you get Rose an open lane to the basket. You get Deng, Salmons or someone else an open look if they actually execute the roll or even step back for an open jumper if both defenders commit to chasing Rose.
But the screen rarely happens, so none of that happens. Hell, if it even frequently happened, it’d make occasionally faking the screen and setting up an iso for Deng and Salmons that much more effective.
I mean, am I totally wrong about this? It just looks to me like the plays are breaking down because Deng especially (I see it a lot more with him) doesn’t execute what’s obviously the play.
It just doesnt make sense to me
If deng executes the play you explained perfectly, rose gets either a bucket, or deng gets an easy look via a layup through the roll, or a a kick out for a set jumper which he pretty much loves (and is good at) so why would deng sacrifice a chance to make himself look better by executing the play, just so he can look worse by going iso…u see him go iso and its obvious its not part of his game, he looks so awkward, i cant imagine anyone wanting to constantly put themselves in that position…
Selfish players like to do what they feel they are good at and most comfortable at….nevermind the impact it has on the rest of the team…not executing the play if anything makes deng look even worse to the coaching staff, it just seems like an unlikely risk that deng would take cuz it makes no sense…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Dec 16, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with your thinking
but I’m trying to balance it against the quotes I’ve seen from Deng and my observations. I also (like you said above) try not to put too much stock into the quotes I hear from players, but when I see quotes from a guy indicating he wants to “take charge” more and then I see him creating situations where, in fact, he does take charge on the court, I feel like I have to put 2 and 2 together.
Like you say, the way things are happening now just doesn’t make sense. So we’ve got two possible explanations.
1. The coaches are demanding a play that flies in the face of all logic. I don’t particularly think the coaching staff is great, but I don’t see any support for this. If anything, Vinny seems absolutely mad for the screen and roll, and tries to run it too much. Like the six zillion high screens with Noah, etc. So this explanation is hard to believe.
2. The player is executing the play in a way that puts the ball in his hands and allows him to “be the man”, something that he’s indicated in various quotes he’s desired to do. So I can put some stock into this explanation, because it supports what I’ve heard, even though I think it represents counterproductive thinking on the part of the player.
is there a way to tell if Deng is purposefully setting bad picks
so he can more easily get to his spot (and the ball), or if he’s just bad at setting picks?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
It's the latter. They set weak screens that accomplish nothing.
If anything, it just brings an extra defender to help on Derrick.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 16, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
that's what I figure too
they’re all slender lads, except for Brad Miller.
Doug Thonus claims James Johnson sets mean picks, though I can’t verify.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
JJ is wider
I don’t know how to rate the picks. Noah’s are technically fouls. He can’t spread his legs as far apart as he does. It’s supposed to be feet planted no further than shoulder width apart.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
FWIW I agree
The pick and pop game out top usually just clogs things up for Derrick. It works better with Rose-Miller than others, but it’s a failure way more often than not.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 16, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
well, sure
if we’re labeling Deng some kind of sinister selfish player.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
OK, but whether he can't or he won't... he doesn't.
And we need a player who does. At least, if we’re going to have Derrick Rose and said, non-screen setting player is making lots of money to be the 3rd fiddle to Derrick and some other superstar.
I mean, I see the point about labeling him, but either way it pretty much undermines the only conceivable reason we have to keep him here.
Yes
And from what I’ve seen, it’s that Deng will not commit to the pick. He gets out of it quickly without any regard for whether or not it worked. Skinny guys can set good picks too, it’s just more likely they will get knocked over.
it could be part of the play and wed never know
mock screens are part of some plays, alot of plays skiles had for nocioni usually involved mock screens where nocioni would come in like he was gonna set a pick and immediately fade to the three point line, ive seen nash and amare run it also, but amare would act like he was gonna set the screen and then take off towards the rim, and nash would ge thim the ball…
Now that i think about it i can see the bulls using alot of mock screens since pretty much their entire playbook is basically screen and rolls….so the defender guarding rose will always think a screen is coming prepare himself and that might open up a window for rose…..
In fact now im sure of it, what everyone keeps seeing might just be part of the play…and to me it makes sense…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
It makes sense if you are frequently successful running the actual screen
Since the Bulls aren’t, it makes it look like actually running the screen is the deviation from the normal strategy.
yea but our coach is vdn
which explains the part of running plays successfully….the only play they ever run is different variations of the screen and roll, success or not…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
VDN pick'n'roll =
Bears running the ball up the middle every run play
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 17, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
I have to go with Sports2 interpretation
and my own eyes. The fact that Deng has absolutely no post game and would presumably be better in a pick and pop cements it for me. He is just setting piss poor screens at the top of the key
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
I wasn't being sarcastic.
I re-thought it, and realized your points were valid. I’m not sure he has the ability to create for others. His AST% has always been erratic, but it’s not much worse than last year. I could also see how, after his signing, Big Jer said, “Now Luol, we’re giving you a lot of money and putting trust into you. You need to be more aggressive and score more since we’re not bringing Gordon back.”
As I said, his assisting is only slightly down from last year, perfectly within the realm of standard-error or sample-size issues. The only two things that changed before last year (when there was a notable drop), were his contract and signing Del Negro.
So yeah, he might not being trying as much to create for others. Maybe it’s because he’s become selfish w/ the big contract or a directive; maybe it’s from outside influences; maybe both. My ‘ok’ was just mostly an apathetic, “eh, ok, I guess it could be. I don’t think this is much of a problem, though.”
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Unfortunately, setting a good screen doesn't get you assist
That’d be a great thing to try to measure though. I know this isn’t directly related your post, but your post made me think about whether anything would be different if players got recognition for stuff like that.
If I was a team, I’d be keeping track of it.
Beyond that I think it’s a combination of factors. Losing and distrust makes a team worse than the sum of its parts. Your post is no more apathetic than this team.
Wasn't that what the NYTimes piece on Battier was about?
And how Morley has such a good team with guys no one else would want?
Speaking of, I am really wishing the Bulls would have somehow tried to get Landry two years ago. Didn’t he get less than the MLE? He and Noah down low would be quite the unintimidating but very good 4/5.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
both of you make very good points.
I’m not gonna say Deng should be traded, but I don’t think he’s the ideal SF to put alongside Rose, especially when you have a SG in Salmons who has bad handles and doesn’t even attempt to get to the rim anymore.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 16, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
judge of talent
going back to Shannon Brown, who picks our players, do they know basketball talent when they see it.
Not unless that talent was
on display in the Final Four.
Wait, didn;t Brown play in a Final Four?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
I think he is referring to Deng's refusal to pass it to Rose on the break
it was a pretty selfish play and VDN pulled Deng right after it happened. It was a 2 on 1 and Deng had a perfect angle to pass to Rose but chose to go up for a tough, contested, lay-up he missed
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 16, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
If your asking about when Rose got mad at Deng.....
It was in the second quarter at the 6:00 minute mark when Rose was checking into the game I think for the first time since he injured his rib. The players were lined up for Laker free throws, Rose checked into the game yelling to Deng (not at him) to either see what type of set they were in, or what to get into, Dengs response was never shown on camera but you could clearly see Rose the whole time calling towards Deng, then Rose smacked his lips as he rolled his eyes and shook his head, turning towards Salmons about the info since something happened with Deng where he must have either waived him off, or just ignored him. Afterwords we saw the 2 on 1 where Deng refused to pass the ball. I mentioned it during the game and another member Dils noticed it also, it was very obvious. Deng didn’t want to listen to Rose!
I didn't see the incident to which you refer (the first one)
and I typically don’t like to get into reading people’s body language, because television does not supply context, BUT…
I did notice a curious exchange between Deng and Rose in the Atlanta game that gave me pause. It was on a fast break, early in the game, right when the Bulls were starting to get blown out. Rose was on the break, made a pretty good lay-up and got the and 1 call. Noah, Taj rush over to pick up Rose and give him 5. As Rose walks to the free throw line to give Deng 5, he pauses, and they simultaneously turn around and walk the other way – Rose to the free throw line, Deng out to the 3 point line.
I don’t know if there was something there (and the announcers I think were talking about the Lakers at the time) but I sure don’t get the feeling the two are on the same wave length.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 16, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
I will stay planted in the 'don't read body language' camp.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.....People should be graded on past Judgement.
Not on perceived motives.
A perceived motive and a witnessed act aren't the same thing.
Dils and I both witnessed what happened, I’m not speculating or guessing about anything.
That was ridiculous, and the Bulls seem to enjoy fucking up fast breaks.
The play before they had numbers and the best they came up with was a Brad Miller jumpshot.
Deng is just maddening. He plays well, attacks the rim, gives effort, but makes such idiotic plays at times. I wonder have we ever seen a team full of such unselfish players play like they’re all Zach Randolph.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 16, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
I think Deng was influenced by Nocioni and B.G
Being around selfish guys who complain and point fingers at others has rubbed off on him. I knew Deng wasn’t passing the ball to Rose. Deng thinks this is his team probably since he’s got a big contract, he’s the leading scorer, and he’s been on the team the longest. The statements Deng makes show it. Deng needs to be traded right now.
When Nocioni and BG
complain and point fingers? They may have shown selfish play but I don’t see where you get the rest of that from.
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
Gordon was a damn model of restraint
Let’s see how Deng acts if he gets designated “sixth man”.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 16, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
He had all kinds of reasons to complain but he didn’t.
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
I'm not talking about how he dealt with management
I’m talking about the attitude the players had on the court with each other. And B.G wasn’t really bad in that regard neither, but as a former ball player and coach, you can see that there were issues with certain players on the team. Mostly Nocioni……
I think he likes to
make things up.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
That should read when DID Nocioni and BG complain and point fingers?
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
hahaha
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
yeah, I think Mr. Rythym now has 'a thing' here.
I guess everyone needs something.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
You ever seen in a football game the DB's get beat deep then turn and blame the CB's for the TD?
They wear helmet’s with their faces covered yet you know someone’s getting blamed. Nocioni would do the same thing often times when he would get scored on by the opposing player attacking the rim. He’d turn face his teamate/s throwing his arms in the air like he was expecting help. Their was one game last season before he was traded where he was complaining on the bench to B.G and B.G waved Nocioni off like when you swipe at a fly and Ben clearly said “Shut the f—- up!” you don’t need to be a great lip reader to know what Ben was saying either. Do you remember the comment Deng made about this season the team having better team oriented players (or something to that degree) and most assumed he meant B.G, I thought he meant Nocioni myself.
i also believe they were neighbors...
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Yes
Deng got choked up on camera when the Noc trade went down…and said as such later..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Yeah
They are really good friends but they hate playing together….that makes sense.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Have you ever played organised ball?
Friends many times hate playing with each other, this isn’t as far fetched as you make it seem. I’ve seen guys go it at to the point you think they hate each other and they’re best of friends, no matter where I go I see it. Plus this is a business, there is no friendship in business especially when your talking about million dollar contracts.
There are exceptions.
I think you see things that really aren’t.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Yeah what she said.
It’s fine to be friendly and not have a good feel for the game together, but to be amongst best friends and for the other to be visibly shaken when it’s traded, I think you are forcing something a bit here.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
If you re-read what I wrote...
You’ll see I clearly made it known my OPINION was the player Deng referred to was Nocioni. This is what I wrote ….
“Do you remember the comment Deng made about this season the team having better team oriented players (or something to that degree) and most assumed he meant B.G, I thought he meant Nocioni myself.”
So based off Nocioni’s attitude, I THOUGHT Deng meant Nocioni, could I be wrong, most definitely, could I be right, possibly. To be honest, that’s really not the main point. Deng is showing himself in my eyes to have bad qualities as a teamate, and if he was referring to Nocioni, he’s a even worse friend, just my opinion though.
even if they didn't get along on the court
all the time, a shot at someone in the media is over the friends line, not just the teammate line.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
why not?
deal him for a starting-caliber SG (or a 3 who can play the 2 properly) and let Salmons slide back to the 3, which is his natural position.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
I loved Rose's game!
I do not know what injury he had early in the game, but it didn’t seem to hinder him once he came back. Rose did not finish particularly well around the rim, but that’s expected since he has not seen much of it all year. Three plays stood out in my mind.
One time, they ran that crap high screen and roll (ugh), and of course they doubled Rose out of it. Rather than bailing out, Rose hesitated and just went around both of them and tried the layup. He missed, but he also got whacked. He needs to do this more to keep defenses honest.
Next, Rose saw Gasol (I think) coming up to help on the screen roll. He didn’t wait for the screen to be really set and split the defenders and cruised in for the layup. Amazing.
Last, whoever’s ankles he broke in the fourth quarter, I hope they aren’t too sore today. That was unbelievable. Easily would have made sports center if he finished the layup.
I guess Rose read the paper and said “Oh, so my coach wants me to try and take over? Well, why didn’t he just say so?!”
P.S. – Fire VDN. The only reason the Bulls looked good is because Rose and Noah played solid games. Still too much standing.
thoughts
The Rose injury is a bruised ribs. The Tribune website reported that this is an injury he re-aggravated.
Those broken ankles belong to Lamar Odom.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
John Salmons sucks.
And 21 pts on 22 shots? That’s Allen Iverson territory! Glad he’s being selfish, though.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
i am, i agree with yfBB on that
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
yeah, but at least 3 of those shots
were point blank layups that, for whatever reason, rimmed out. He makes those shots 90% of the time…
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
Yeah, he's gotta start shooting a higher percentage. And getting to the line more.
Baby steps, but I’m happy for now if he just keeps taking that many shots.
Bad stretches
Once again they had a bad stretch where their jump shots weren’t falling and they don’t have an alternative way to score.
A lot of other teams have a player they can either put on the block, run an isolation for, or a good screen-roll/pop combination to get them back on track after the offense begins to stall.
The Bulls main scoring threat driving to the basket is Rose. Teams know this so they tend to double him when high screens are set.
The Bulls need to run more sets where the Rose, Deng and the man setting the pick are on the same side of the court.
The play needs to be designed so that Rose is not sent directly down the middle of the lane, but rather to either side of the lane. Depending on the screen that’s set Rose would have 4 options; the drive, the pull-up, the kick-out(s), or the dump to the pick-roll man.
a.) You execute the classic screen-roll.
b.) If they double him immediately and it’s kicked out to Deng, the screen-roll man should have a clean path to the basket.
c.)If the defender goes under the screen he’s gotta nail the 18 foot jump-shot.
d.) If he splits the double team that would make Deng’s man have to help to prevent the layup as opposed to a defender from the opposite side of the basket. I’d trust Deng to hit a 16-18 footer off this set most of the time. And if Deng’s man doesn’t help, then it’s a Rose lay-up, an and-1, or free throws from a late weak side defender rotating.
Oh, and I’m just tired of seeing Salmons shoot.
Fool's Gold
Let’s keep in perspective what this game really showed, there is no such thing as moral victories. At the very most the lakers brought out their B game, at sometimes C game we were toyed with, our problems are still the same No coach,bench players sprinkled throughout the roster not to mention the retirees on th squad.Vinny does not know how to match personnel and until he goes we are just spinning our wheels.
We better help Rose
A lot of Nba players appreciate what Rose Skills are, and they do recruit, he could be discouraged very easy with this brainless and directionless organization, running up and down the court with Deng who won’t pass the ball and Salmons who won’t pass and Miller who can’t run or Heinrich who can’t finish and you could easily see how I gotta get the hell outta here.
i've seen it mentioned last night,
and it seems more obvious now; hinrich should be starting over salmons. that way, we have another ballhandler in the lineup who can at least somewhat create something off the dribble. besides, i’d rather have Salmons in the role of “provide scoring off the bench” rather than Hinrich anyways, and if John has a night like last night in a reserve role, it’s a much easier pill to swallow since we probably wouldn’t have gotten much bench production anyways.
Gasp
I’m so nervous about us losing to the Knicks tonight….
I mean in a typical year there’s a little apprehension and even if we lost I could say well we had a bad game cuz the Knicks are terrible and we’re ok….
But now…?
We’re both pretty bad and a loss to the Knicks might just gasp mean they officially are better than us, despite really only having a coach who’s better than us (far worse in the talent dept)…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Oh then the misery continues...
for one more day. THanks for pointing that out though, I thought it was another of our league leading 23 back to backs! Boo yeah schedulers!
Sadly....through thick and thin....
It's obvious the players don't respect
VDN and if you don’t have confidence your coach is putting you in the best position to win the results are predictably bad. It speaks volumes that the teams best all around player (Noah) sprinted over to Phil after the game to suck him off.
Noah is the only guy on the team that is better than he was last year and that’s because of increased energy and hustle made possible by an off-season HGH fueled workout regiment. Deng would do well to join him next summer.
by Duck99 on Dec 16, 2009 9:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
waitaminute, this is off-topic, but did McGrady give Ariza his jersey number?
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1215/nba_g_tmac_268.jpg
here’s a veteran, multiple-time scoring champ who’s worn #1 his entire career, including 6 years with the Rockets, and now he just gives his number to the newest player on the team? could this be foreshadowing McGrady’s departure form Houston?
let’s trade for his contract!
McGrady
changed his number to 3 because of Darfur.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
oh, alright
well either way, i want his contract to be property of the Bulls. this was brought up last night in the game thread and it seemed like a pretty sweet idea.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 16, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
i think the Bulls would have to throw in Jerome James, too and possibly cash.
but big deal, i’d still do it
by Daniel Satan on Dec 16, 2009 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
Of course we are all down on Salmons right now
But if the Bulls are to improve, we need to find ways to maximize his talents. Maybe they should just play him at the 3. He should be able to better use his quickness and hopefully gain some confidence.
We tried something similar last year with the 3 guard lineups (Rose-Gordon-Hinich). We could run Rose-Hinrich-Salmons-Deng-Miller/Noah. That should at least get us to a 100 points.
by RogersPark Kris on Dec 16, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions
He has been playing the 3
He played it last night.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
Salmons had a fluke year last year
He’s playing just like he has been his whole career. The King’s fan weren’t too sad about Salmons leaving.
I was planning on watching the recording of this game
but I peeked at the score at the gym and it was a 4 point Laker lead in the 2nd quarter. I had to make sure the players in white were the same players that showed up to play the Raptors.
The good news was the defense showed up. The lakers didn’t appear to get any easy buckets. In the 3rd they made a nice charge late in the quarter before Kobe sat. To open the 4th is where the team turned sloppy on offense. We started to make their second unit look like all stars. Noah sat for this strech. Hmm. We turned it over with poor passing and Luol Deng drives to the free throw line. Then we didn’t get back in transition. When we did get back we didn’t match up which gave Shannon Brown wide open looks from the Bulls’ bench.
The events that floored me watching the second half were thew following
- Kirk Hinrich dribbling around a high screen taking the extra dribble to the middle to make himself completely free of all defenders and he actually shot the ball and it went in. He didn’t hesitate. He didn’t peak behind him to see if his defender recovered. He just knew he was open and took the shot. Where the hell is this Kirk Hinrich every night? I hate Kurt.
- Salmons shot looks awful. It’s flat, he’s cocking his shot before the release, he’s acquiring some Deng like pump fake tendencies, and he’s still not getting to the rim.
- Working the offensive glass was great.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
interesting
have we decided then the reason for hinrichs bad play is due to loss of identity…?
Where the hell is this Kirk Hinrich every night? I hate Kurt.
Indeed i think vinnys constant calling kirk kurt has led to hinrich forgetting who he is and his game and ability, thus the horrendus play…ironic how after the interview with espn and the name topic is brought up, suddenly something changes…perhaps vinny heard or read the interview and was like, damn ive been calling u the wrong name and u never said anything, and then started calling him kirk again…perhaps that has led to the return of the real kirk hinrich who i am a fan of…..
indeed i must meditate on this situation…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Dec 16, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Kurt looked a lot better
In my mind, this team is still passing up a lot of open looks, and that’s due to a lack of confidence in their shot. It’s also why we pass so freaking much around the perimeter. I think guys don’t want to be the one taking the shot, so we’re actually making too many passes.
"Shoot with confidence"?
and that’s due to a lack of confidence in their shot.
maybe vdn has SOME idea of what hes doing after all….then again…maybe not…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Dec 16, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
The problem is that yelling it doesn't fix it
May as well just yell “Win the game! God damn it, people, score! SCORE!! ATTACK! DEFEND! PLAY OFFENSE!”
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
the alter-ego of Kirk isn't Kurt
it’s The Mopey Iowan.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
are u the one who
coined that phrase…i cant remember…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Kelly Dwyer
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
I agree that players were trying out for the Lakers
I don’t know if “quitting on VDN” is an accurate assessment of the team dynamic. I don’t think they buy VDN as a coach (witness Kirk walking away while VDN talks), and I don’t think they believe they are going to achieve anything as a team. They played hard because it was the Lakers. Noah, in particular, wanted to show Phil his game.
And if I’m forecasting the future Noah is gone in 2 years and Rose is gone after his rookie deal (if not before). Dorf won’t shell out money unless there’s success, and I don’t see success of even a Skiles-level anytime soon. The Bulls have the Deng and Kirk contracts hanging around their necks and those things are not going to move (especially Deng).
Really, Deng is the future of Bulls basketball — moreso than either Rose or Noah.
Yeah, that's why the future needs to change
Deng’s contract is untenable for what delivers on the court.
I don’t know if the stuff about him and Rose not getting along is true, but if it is I…well it doesn’t matter. I think they have to do everything in their power to move Deng even if it means taking back some long-term contract obligations. They can’t have that much money tied up Deng.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 16, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
honestly
i thought we had a good game, and if rose hadn’t hurt himself earlier, i think we could have build on that awesome 1st qtr
BUT (unlike most) im optimistic =)
What happened to the Da Bulls?
kelly dwyer called rose "mini-Ron Mercer" today. ouch. i just know that when i read that line my cat threw up in the kitchen.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
And praise for Joakim Noah.
Sorry, but he didn’t grab 14 individual offensive rebounds, and not figuring out another gameplan after getting repeatedly denied by Gasol and Bynum doesn’t mean much to me. And I know we don’t expect much finesse from Joakim, but he should be able to score on a hook shot 2 feet from the basket.
Rose’s efficiency sucks, but there isn’t a single player on the team who knows how to set a hard pick, no 3 point shooters, and no big man who can play a ton of minutes and run the pick/pop with him.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 16, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
i really like Noah
but i think some fans are going a little overboard with the Noah good, everyone else sucks deal. Noah has been repeatedly getting abused by centers over the last 13 games. So much so, that VDN made a great move (for him) to put Brad Miller into the starting line up.
I do believe he played his best defense of the season last night on Gasol though. It just makes me wonder if Noah is really a center or if he is a power forward. He is not a post player, he can’t score consistently from down there – although he has gotten better. And he definitely should not be shooting jumpers (which makes it hard for him to play the 4). Noah really needs to be paired with a high level offensive big man (Bosh would be the best fit, Jefferson fits as well) to cover up his offensive deficiencies. And if you matched him with someone who could take the pressure off him defensively by not forcing him to bang with the Lopez, Bynum and Boguts of the world, than I think you will get the best out of Noah.
Lastly, its funny to me how some fans call for Rose to be more aggressive, while simultaneously cursing him for being inefficient. Increased offensive shots lead to greater defensive attention and lower efficiency? Who knew.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 16, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I know a ton of those boards were on his on misses
But I’m still impressed by the fact that he’s a legit double digit rebounder every night and shows effort (and valuable effort as opposed the “useless hustle” variety). Obviously, his offense needs to improve and he can’t be asked to guard physically superior guys (like Bogut) one on one right now. But he’s a useful player.
But I agree that his game last night was pretty equivocal, with 4 for 16 or whatever it was.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 16, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Couple rants here
Loul Deng sucks. I hate his game always have. He’s the most unathletic 3 in the league.
Salmons needs to go, he sucks, last year was a total fluke, last year he took it hard to the hoop and got and 1’s at a pretty nice rate. This year he’s a straight chucker and i hate chuckers. Noah is a freaking beast, so happy he got his last night cause i know the first time we played the lakers he was very upset with himself.
Derrick was good and has been playing ROY ball his last few games so i think he’s just fine. KH cannot and should not ever even try and gaurd Kobe cause it’s just wrong on so many lvls. Our bench is by far the worst in the league. Shannon Brown is like so many other’s a good player the Bulls failed to keep. this org sucks in so many ways. There are no moral victorys in sports you either win or loose and we lost.
The Lakers didnt really even try. i watch the Lakers alot and they just didnt have it tonight, hence the KB24 40 burger. This team needs to be GUTTED starting with our golden boys KH and LD. Then get rid of the exp contracts for something (boozer, amare, anything with a pulse) I really wish people would stop going to games like they did with the Blackhawks. Look at them now, by far the #1 franchise in Chi-Town. Signing good players, taking care of thier own. Good solid upper managment, coaching. The owner is excited. Lots of good stuff comming from those guys.
The Bulls on the other hand are a complete joke. Starting with reinsdorf then paxson (by the way, what has this guy ever done that he’s a lifer) he should be fired NOW, and this clown gar forman (who the fuck is this gomer pile looking guy) what has he ever done? Did he scout baseball players or something for jerry? is he a really good lawyer or accountant and good with numbers? I mean this guy knows nothing about basketball.
Why cant we actually put people in these positions that know wtf they are doing? this isnt fair at all. Why cant the fans just stay home, why cant we just gut this dam team. This is so depressing. I hope the Knicks smoke us. I hope LH drops a tripple double on us. I hope D antoni makes VDn look like a complete fool. I hate this franchise so much but i dont. i love the Bulls but hate everything else about them. i hate the media for giving these clows a pass 90% of the time.
Im so upset with this team, we deserve better with what we pay for tickets and season tickets, the loyalty weve shown this franchise over the past 10 years. At some point we just gotta say no to the Bulls.
Forgot to add
that it is imperitive we trade LD NOW while he’s not injured, the time is NOW. I would take anything for him, g wallace, rudy gay,T mac, anything. now is the time to move him, he’s playing up to his numbers, he’s healthy, he’s a super great guy (bulls pr bs), dump him now, trade him for Boozer straight up. The jazz need a retarded three. Ill even throw in JJ since he’s an idiot.
Not for the Jazz..
How could they afford this since the only reason they are looking to trade Boozer and not resign him really is because of AK47’s behemouth contract….
We could try something like Tyrus-Brad for Boozer-Korver and hey it works…Jazz try to renegotiate Tyrus as AK47’s actually good successor….
Might not be too shabby either. Jazz save some money when Brad expires…Bulls get some expiring still with Korver—who we might as well keep, he’s a solid shooter, fits a need…and of course Boozer.
Jazz don’t loose the Booz for nothing…
But I wonder why would they still do this with their team looking ok:
Bulls:
Rose-Hinrich-Deng-Boozer-Noah with Salmons-Korver as the main guys off the bench.
Utah:
Dwill-Brewer-Thomas-Millsap-Okur with Matthews, AK47 and Miller main guys off the bench….to me that lineup looks ridiculously scary!
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Laker fan here...
Good game by your team and to tell ya’ll the truth, i think the Bulls deserved to win this game more than L.A. They played with more energy than us and played better D. Nobody on our team came to play tonight besides Kobe (of course) and Shannon Brown. Not to take anything away from your team last night, but the Laker team you saw last night is not the Laker team you’ll see against Boston and Cleveland. Just seemed like everybody checked out after the 1st quarter for some reason which pisses us Laker fans off. Anyways, I’d like to know from you guys how you think we’ll match up with Boston if we met them in the Finals. And try not to judge L.A. by the pathetic performance they put on yesterday. PEACE!
You guys are the most talented team in the league
If everyone’s healthy….I don’t even care as much about the bench 7-12 guys, but no team should be able to compete with
Kobe-Gasol-Bynum-Odom-Artest and the PG by committee….
You guys should be the favorites, but of course the C’s are mighty deadly….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
yeah I agree that we're more talented than them but...
I’ve always been a guy who believes in Defense first and the Cs are a little better defensively and also rebounding wise than us. Another thing I fear if we play them is that I’m pretty sure they’re just gonna pack in the paint on us and force us to hit outside shots. We’re really not a great outside shooting team (Artest was horrible yesterday) and if you remember, this strategy worked to near perfection in the 08 Finals.
by desecrator09 on Dec 16, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
the Lakers are probably the only team in the NBA that COULD beat Boston in a 7-game series...
but they need to fix their situation at point guard fast, cuz i really think Rondo would be the difference in that series. Fisher has become IMO the worst starting PG in the league, and if Farmar can’t even start over him, he isn’t much better.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 16, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
at this point, i think even Duhon would be an upgrade over Fisher for the Lakers.
Same with Steve Blake
by Daniel Satan on Dec 16, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Why does the idea of trading Kurt to the Lakers sound familiar?
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 16, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
this really awesome poster thought of the idea
dont be jeolous cuz u didnt…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Meh, the Magic showcased the blueprint for engaging Rondo
It’s rather simply. Make him shoot and shoot often.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
He’s shooting like 34% jump shots, 67% layups/dunks…
Still can’t shoot, have to guard him….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Rose might be similar
Except Rose is a better shooter, if we had KG, Pierce and Ray Allen around to keep the defenders spaced and their attention on the better scorers….oh well…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
hes shooting 101%?
i know i know…im just being stupid…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Fish has had better defensive games then you saw last night
He’s actually a solid on-ball defender especially against the physical PGs. But even though the Cs will give us alot of problems, I honestly dont see Rondo being the main culprit because if you remember last season, we put Kobe on him and he was able to keep him out of the paint and go under all screens with him, which forced him to shoot jumpers. This actually worked pretty well and neutralized him from both of the games.
by desecrator09 on Dec 16, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
The Lakers will crush the Celtics
I wouldn’t worry so much.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 16, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Not really,
Lamar Odom and Gasol disappear when the game gets physical, the Celtics are very physical, even w/ Artest, the Lakers are still soft
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 17, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
soft teams still win a lot. the first bulls dynasty was known in its time as a
softer, finesse squad.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Ron Artest is a +265 at present
Kobe is +226. Kobe is #2 in the league.
Short of any Stern chicanery, the Lakers will crush the Celtics.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 17, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
yea, Artest has great size, but other than on-ball defense, he really isn't that physical
6’7’’ 260 and he’s averaging only 4.7 rebounds in 35 minutes per night. if he’s not gonna bang down low, ’Sheed, KG and Perkins will be able to negate the size advantage LA has over everybody else.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 17, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
when the Celtics beat the Lakers 2 years ago
the Lakers didn’t have Artest or Bynum. With both those guys, the Lakers won’t get pushed around.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
2 years ago Boston didn't have Wallace and Perkins wasn't as big a force as he is now
by Daniel Satan on Dec 17, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
Perkins was a force, he just got 0 credit because everyone was too busy slobbering KG's knob.
Perk has a much more refined offensive game, but with that body you’re telling me he was just a defensive stiff? They also had PJ Brown and James Posey coming off the bench, better counterparts to Rasheed Wallace and Marquis Daniels.
And, it’s all a moot point because it’s December and we’ve yet to see Bynum go down with his annual injury or KG’s knees to start acting up again.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 19, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
crush is too strong i think. it'll be an awesome series.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
look, kobe is awesome and i love watching him and think he used to get the shaft with how the media
often attacked his personality, but maybe the laker guys didnt show up for the game because after the first quarter kobe was on pace to shoot 48 times for the game. every laker game ive seen this year leaves me vaguely perplexed as to why andrew and pau dont get more shot attempts. isnt it in kobes best interest to save himself for the postseason? why not ride the big guys a bit?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Yeah we Laker fans get really pissed about that
I mean in nearly every game we have a HUGE advantage in the frontcourt so it perplexes me why each of the 2 big guys dont shoot at least 15 times EACH. I mean, I love watching Kobe go off as much as anybody but shouldnt he only be doing that like maybe in the 4th quarter and thats it?
by desecrator09 on Dec 16, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Boston is the best team in the league
The Boston bigs are more physical, skilled, the bench is deeper, Ray Allen and Eddie House provide instant offense whenever they’re needed. The Lakers don’t have the perimeter shooters or the inside presence. Boston would beat L.A and unless Kobe averages near 40 a game, the Lakers might get beat in 5-6 games.
Um...
I don’t think Perkins and modern KG are close to Bynum-Gasol-Odom-Artest….
And Sheed’s nothing more than a Heat era Antoine Walker clone these days since he can’t do what he did 3-4 years ago (he was great)….well Antoine Walker with a bit more D….but not much better.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Who are you saying the Lakers have that's better than K.G?
Perkins leads the league in FG%, he’s 10 times as physical as Gasol or Bynum. Rasheed is a beast from the post and he can hit the three. I don’t get the confusion. This Boston team dominated the Lakers who only missed Bynum, and he’s not dominating anybody. Ron Artest isn’t better than Paul Pierce, Ray Allen is gonna get his, Eddie House adds instant offense. Boston is the best team in basketball, if they didn’t have injuries last year they may have repeated. I don’t see any other Laker besides Kobe doing much scoring, but the Celtics have so many weapons and three point shooters, add to that the post presence, this team will beat L.A!
I'd wait to see if Rasheed actually posts up anyone with discernible skill.
Physicality doesn’t equal skill, and with Bynum at center Gasol can’t just get bullied around anymore. If the Celtics want to play the cheap shot game with LA, they have just as many dirty players to reciprocate.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 17, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Rasheed
These days is more an outside shooter…doesn’t go inside much at all..wow his 15.5 PER must really be league best…
Garnett is still amongst the league best, but I’d take Gasol these days (better passer, more gifted offensively, underrated defensively).
And Perkins compared to Odom, Artest and Bynum….come on…
The thing the Celtics have over the Lakers is their PG is FAR superior than the 3 headed LA PG….and that might be the difference….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I've watched some of the Boston games recently, Rasheed is going into the post more
He’s always been one of the top players in the FG% category, so he’s another post threat. Perkins, again, is the number one player in the league in FG%, we know what K.G can do in the post, so how can L.A have the advantage with the big men over Boston? Gasol is not better than K.G, Bynum isn’t proven, Lamar Odom is too thin, Artest isn’t better than Paul Pierce who he’ll be matched with, and Rondo is better at the PG position. The only advantage L.A has is with Kobe…..Boston has better 3 pt shooters, better post men, better team defense, balanced scoring, there more physical….Boston is the better team, IMO.
if you use any stats from the boxscore to make your decisions im not sure how you can hate PER since
its basically a comprehensive boxscore.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I think you're underestimating Bynum
not to mention Gasol. I too am curious to see if Gasol shies away with KG barking in his ear all night, but you make it seem like Bynum is a bum. Not to mention, I haven’t seen Rasheed beast in the post in years.
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
For a ring
Sheed might spend some time on the block
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 17, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know
I mean it’s not like the Pistons haven’t been contenders these past few years and he still wasn’t going down on the block. Those teams were going to the ECF so I don’t see how that’s any less of a chance at a ring.
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
I meant to say outside of last year
The Pistons were contending.
"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah
Quick questions
is it true that if a player does not play for 45 games straight or something like that, there contract if insured that insurance then pays for it? Does that have any effect on the Bulls current salary cap?
Also was chatting with my brother last night and he brought up a good point about the Buls that I never really knew or cared about. he said that the Bulls always only carry around 12 players but that most other NBA teams carry around 15 or so? is this true and if so why and how do they get away with this?
I could be wrong
But I think this is the 3rd year that they’ve allowed up to 15 players (might only be 2nd, but I think it’s 3rd).
Bulls have 13 on their roster, though one I don’t even think has ever been with the team (Jerome James—there’s $6.6M for ya) and the other is Tyrus who’s been hurt for what seems like centuries but it’s been about 5 weeks….
Most teams this year because of the economy aren’t going 15 strong….Bulls could go 15 strong but would be in the luxury….too many bad for their production contracts…whcih is why we may be ok for next year…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Rose and efficiency
The Ron Mercer comment really irks me apparently. If you look, ahem, beyond the numbers at the kind of 2 pt shots Rose was taking it’s a vastly different mix the what Mercer did. You know, Deng is more like a Mercer that rebounds than Derrick is a Mercer that drops some dimes.
Rose got to the rack 3 or 4 time last night for shots that he didn’t put down and didn’t get a call. Maybe Rose needs a coach that will tell him to make more obvious contact on those shots, because on all of them it would have been reasonable to see a foul call. It’s not like Rose isn’t getting to the line because he’s Mercering around the perimeter. He drives, but isn’t getting calls or finishing. Someone should help him fix that aspect of his game.
Tangentially, I retrospectively feel bad for Mercer
He threw up a 15 PER on that absolutely atrocious team his first year here, and then hurt his knee. It was never much stated at the time, but after that injury, he went drastically downhill as a player and was never even remotely close to ok.
Not saying he was good or worth what he was paid, but if he hadn’t gotten hurt and the Bulls had even attempted to field NBA players at the other positions he might look a little better than he looked.
I looked up Mercer's stats before that post, and they were better than I remembered
And it would suck to get brought in as the consolation prize to a bitter fan base that has seen every FA they wanted spurn their team.
On the other hand, he played like 10 years in the league and made decent money, so I’m not feeling too bad for him.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 16, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
PER is a nice tool to measure the top 50 players
But to say this guy with a PER of 15 is a better Player than this guy with a Per of 13.5 can be misleading, esp if one is a SF and the other a PF, or PG
At least you can give it context.
That shows a probability of rational thought. I don’t know about Daley.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Not a big fan of metrics,
I like using the eye test.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 17, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
Which is why you will know little of what you're talking about.
If you were competent enough of a scout in evaluating basketball players, you’d be a professional scout or a writer or a coach. Even if you are any of those things, I’d question your actual abilities if you didn’t use stats in evaluating players. It’s just ridiculous. I hope you’re old.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Dec 17, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't use metrics, and can probably evaluate talent
better than half of the people on here, yall make it seem like metrics is the end all be all in terms of evaluating a player.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 17, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
No, of course it's not.
But there is a reason you don’t have a job as a basketball scout. It’s because you aren’t the end-all, be-all in evaluating basketball talent. Metrics are the best and most objective tool that any of us have.
I’m sure you can evaluate basketball talent better than half the people on here, but that’s still far worse than what any NBA team would ever want. They do, however, use the same metrics that we have available to us.
So, as fans, one of the methods we have available to evaluate talent is very similar, if not the exact same, as what professional teams that have millions of dollars at stake use. The other is, of course, is you, something subjective and so far inferior to what a professional team would use that it’s not even laughable; they wouldn’t even listen. And I’m probably worse at the “eye test” than even you are (which, as I’ve said, is really, really shitty in the first place). That’s why I, and others, use stats to evaluate the game. We use our eyes to watch for entertainment.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
to be fair, even Hollinger has said PER overvalues rebounding. as a result, it's a little less effective in measuring the effectiveness of guards
by Daniel Satan on Dec 17, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
right, knowing the positives, negatives, context...
…all important when using stats. but dismissing them is foolish.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Or have a coach
that will stand for his team and complain, Vinny needs to take 25k fine and complain about the officiating like other coaches, that helps get your players some calls
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 17, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Some thoughts on last night
The game changed with about 8 minutes in the 4th. Bulls down 77-74. And the Captain did a wraparound behind the back pass at the free throw line into the feet of Farmar, recovered by Brown and dunked on Brad. Kert threw his arms up and moped. Thanks a lot Kurt.
Deng and Fish- 0 FT attempts
Deng and Fish- 1 assist combined
INEXCUSABLE- A real coach would bench both of them. Messages have to be sent.
i think the pargo-rose-hinrich lineup is straight out of my nightmares.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
that didn't actually occur, did it?
i feel like i would have remembered that.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
god no, im just saying thats life after benching salmons and deng.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
the problem is, Vinny isn't confident enough in his job security at this point to risk benching guys just to send a message.
not to mention, the Bulls only have 7 legit NBA players right now… if he gave Deng or Salmons a DNP-CD or two, that would mean almost certain losses since JJ and Pargo would be getting major minutes during those games, and Vinny needs every W he can get at this point.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 17, 2009 8:23 AM CST up reply actions
"Captain did a wraparound behind the back pass at the free throw line into the feet of Farmar"
Bad move by the Craptain,but if it went off of the farmer’s feet then the refs should have called it.But of course they won’t
I hate this team
Had a long drive home on Tuesday, so I took Lakers -10 to make the drive more interesting while listening to the game on the radio. Deng had to hit that meaningless 3 at the buzzer, didnt he?
Hadn’t even considered Rose/Noah leaving soon, but from what it sounds like, its definitely possible. I’m giving up on the Bulls if that happens.
"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH
Hey sorry about that
When Deng took that shot I said “this is going to go in and ruin the spread”.
But that was all Kobe’s fault. Kobe had a breakaway dunk that he finished quickly rather than just running into the corner to run out the clock. Before the dunk the Lakers were up 10.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 17, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
i needed the lakers to win by more than 10
i guess i should stick to my day job and let reinsdorf stick to making money off a crummy team
"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH
No game thread tonight?
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Apperantly it's come to that...
We suck.
How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 17, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
i'll just add on to this
even though it’s gonna be a bitch and start laggin by the time the 2nd quarter rolls around
when rose got that pass from Miller, he could've taken the 17-footer immediately
instead he lost the ball on the drive to the hoop… he needs to work on his spot-up jumper instead of needing a dribble move to get in rhythm for the j
maybe matt fell out of the back of a pick up truck with his shirt off.
by SoulEater7 on Dec 17, 2009 7:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
why because he was dumb enough to jump on the back of a truck while he was beating his gf?
yeah whatever
hmmm....
i dunno, i guess it’s just a courtesy to say “too soon” in that situation.
by Daniel Satan on Dec 17, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
and an ass...
and a wife-beater.
Not that I’d wish death on anyone, but yeah.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Chris Henry lived the life we all want to live: playing football for millions of dollars
and died the death we all want to die: falling off a truck in an enraged attempt to physically abuse a woman.
Rec!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
i made a fan post / game thread if people want to post there
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2009 7:21 PM CST reply actions
Game thread
How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?
follow the link
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/12/17/1206610/game-thread-bulls-v-knicks-12-17-09
How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 17, 2009 7:31 PM CST up reply actions
sorry, not sure what happened
use that game thread above
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2009 7:38 PM CST reply actions
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