Tyrus Thomas & Hinrich for Vujacic, Farmar & Morrison - Trade Proposal
by Granny Waiters on Dec 14, 2009 6:44 PM CST
Email
Printhttp://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/ and Trade ID #5323914 or http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycdqwl9
Why the Bulls do it:
- They need to cut salary to have a chance at signing a 2010 free agent to a max contract. This season is already a loss, so it does not matter if Adam Morrison contributes nothing.
- Jerry Reinsdorf is too cheap to exceed the salary cap, so the $2M saved could be used to pick up a veteran 3-point shooter the Bulls desperately need. Sasha Vujacic is also better at 3-point shooting than anyone currently on the Bulls roster.
- Jordan Farmar replaces Hinrich at a much more reasonable salary for a back-up guard.
- Jerry Reinsdorf has a personal dislike of TT, so the Bulls will likely let him walk for nothing next summer if he is not traded by the deadline.
Why the Lakers do it:
- Tyrus Thomas (TT) is very talented, but the Bulls have been awful at developing players. Since Phil Jackson & Co. >> Vinny del Negro & Co., TT could likely be developed into a defensive force and acceptably good offensive player.
- Kirk Hinrich has shot like garbage this year, but will likely rebound at some point. He can help keep Fisher's regular season minutes down. Hinrich has acceptable ball handling, and would be a good defensive back-court complement to Kobe.
- The Lakers championship window is now and the remainder of Kobe's prime, and the three players they give up are not part of the essential team core.
- Buss is willing to spend to win, so the Lakers can take on the additional $2M in salary. The Lakers also will not be under the cap next summer, irregardless of this trade.
What do you think?
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
94 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Dont they have an extra pf lying around
?? We sort of need some depth….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Might as well tank the season at this point, and unload Kurt by any means possible.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 14, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
Taj!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 14, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
umm....dont they have an extra pf lying around
we sort of NEED some depth
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Tell it Funk & King.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 14, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
I don't
see the lakers trading peanuts for more peanuts.
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Dec 15, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Well, we have Josh Powell
Who has played pretty well in a reserve role. He’s a half-decent post defender at either frontcourt spot and has a fairly solid midrange game out to 15-20 feet. If the Lakers are getting Thomas in return, I can see Kupchak being fairly willing to let Powell go.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
yea thats fine
we basically need depth, taj is gonna foul out in 20, and brad will die after 20…brad after the initial 10 is pretty winded already, and taj isnt very good…so id take powell and his defense as depth…
I like jordan farmar, and as a fan of hinrich id like to see him help a team win a ring, but i dont think that team is ever going to be chicago….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Dec 14, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
How has Johnson been?
Is long-term position at the three or the four? The “how on earth did we skip on Blair” crowd has probably shot themselves in the foot multiple times, but it’s interesting that a discussion of the Bulls’ frontcourt depth doesn’t include Johnson.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Well, there's two issues I think
1) Johnson plays and I think profiles like a three..he doesn’t look like a 4 at all to me.
2) He’s already in VDN’s doghouse for, I guess, being too much like Tyrus Thomas.
I think a lot of people posting here already see JJ as TT-redux; the org dislikes the player and fails to develop him. Plus, the media has already run the “how bad must JJ be to not see the floor on this team?” stuff.
The end result is that I think most people are already writing him off. But he has some skills and athletic ability. It’s possible he’ll be useful someday, just probably not in Chicago.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 15, 2009 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
ditto
although i dont think hes in the doghouse, vdn has at least come out and said he wants to play him more…i think maybe evil deng is keeping johnson back cuz vdn wants him to play more as a 3 at any rate…
actually now that i think about it, we just need a general big man who can swing from the 4-5…..hows dj?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Mbenga?
I wouldn’t play him at the four, although he has a lot of mobility for a seven footer. He still can’t covert anything besides a dunk, doesn’t rebound well, and has a comically bad shooting stroke. He does try to block everything though, so I guess he would be okay as a stopgap for 10 minutes or so a game. He had a double-double earlier this season when he started a game for LA when Gasol was still injured and Bynum missed a game, but remember he had a lot more opportunities available to him due to the Lakers’ system and players.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Oh, and for a random tidbit
He has a black belt in judo, which kind of makes me wish he was on Chicago for last year’s series against Boston so he could smash Rondo in the face, although I’m not exactly sure why Gray wasn’t brought in to do exactly that…
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
gray is like nelson
all he does is point and laugh…although i guess someone couldve “accidently” tripped gray and he couldve fallen on rondo…though im not sure even rondo deserves such a fate….no….wait…he does…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
James Johnson is an MMA fighter.
Or was.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
if he can develop
as a three pt shooting big, he’d be perfect as a 3 or 4 coming off the bench. i think he had a streaky shot coming out of college and if Big Baby Davis can develop a jumper, I don’t see how Johnson couldn’t… but yes i understand the bulls can’t develop players
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Dec 15, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
This isn't a bad idea
it’s a shame (really: it really sucks) that the Org. wasted Thomas, but it’s pretty much over and done with, and if Hinrich’s final parting kick in the nuts to Bulls fans is that we have to package Thomas to get him off the books, so be it :)
I think it’s a fantastic trade for the Lakers, though it shouldn’t matter to us whether we’re gift-wrapping them a title or not. Weirdly enough, while Hinrich seems like a front-runner and would likely thrive with the Lakers, he’s playing so bad here that Farmar+Vujacic would actually help the Bulls this year.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 14, 2009 7:31 PM CST reply actions
This organization has wasted a lot more than Tyrus Thomas.
We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
uhhhhh ohhhhhhhhh
by SoulEater7 on Dec 14, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Hinrich for Farmar& Vujacic part could work out for the Bulls. But ADAM MORRISON for Tyrus doesn’t work. The best way to compound the mistake of giving up Gordon for nothing, is to then give up Tyrus for LESS than nothing. Portland would still be interested in Hinrich, Miller doesn’t fit, Bayless is griping about his minutes, and Blake is similar to but not as good as Hinrich. It would be better to take advantage of another teams distress/chemistry problems than to make a “fire sale” trade with the best team in the league.
Ironically, you could be right on the latter point
As Farmar functions much better in a more free-flowing offense where he’s free to make decisions off the pick-and-roll, and Vujacic probably would benefit from the green light to throw up shots without repercussions. That said, if VDN stays, you might screw up both regardless with having no offensive flow whatsoever, but that’s another discussion altogether.
Also, isn’t there some loyalty that Paxson supposedly has towards Hinrich that has made him reluctant to trade him in the past? Does Paxson have enough of a voice in personnel decisions to influence such a decision at this point in any case?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
to answer your last two questions
apparently, and, I believe so.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 15, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Ugh, it's so depressing being a Bulls fan
I would totally do this trade though. I think it makes us better in the short term (I mean, realistically, is Tyrus going to get more than 20-25 minutes per game when he comes back?) and gives us more money in the long-term. The issue then is whether JR uses that money to make the team better or to line his pockets.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 15, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Almost any trade that moves Kirk or Deng (or even Salmons) and doesn't involve draft picks should happen
Well, there are some caveats. Here’s the 2-point plan that should be up on the big white board at Berto:
1) Trade Kirk, Deng, Salmon for expiring deals to increase chances of signing someone that can ball
2) Try not to trade Rose, 1st round draft picks, or Noah.
So this trade would work. It’s sad that such a lopsided deal talent-wise would have to happen to improve the future, but the Bulls are simply untenably contstructed for future success right now. They have to pay a price to change that.
I wonder how bad things have to get before the risk-averse front office sees that there’s nothing left to lose and does something radical.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 14, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
What FA will sign on a team with Rose, Noah, and ADAM MORRISON? I don’t mind your formula that much, but the Bulls have to get expirings who can CONTRIBUTE something THIS year. If they are too terrible, no top FA’s will have any interest anyway. They’ll win 15 games next year if they GIVE AWAY Hinrich, Salmons, Deng, and Thomas for the Morrisons of the world. Little remaining talent + no stability= no good FA’s. With little to fall back on, the Bulls will be forced to vastly overpay for marginal FA… which will lead to worse contracts and less talent than they have now.
A good market, Rose, hopefully a new, good coach, and a high draft pick
Would do a lot to change that perception.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Possibly, But players like Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Johnson, etc. want to be the mising piece of the puzzle…not part of a massive rebuilding program.
*Shrug*
There’s a lot of appeal; 2010 is going to be a crapshoot for some teams and a gold mine for others, but there are so many variables to take into account that anything could happen. IMO, Chicago has the strongest position along with Miami (and the Clippers if they wanted to spend and actually finished the year with an ounce of respectability, which they probably will when Griffin comes back), so I wouldn’t worry too much.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Rose, Deng, Noah and someone unknown draft pick...
or Devin Harris, Courtney Lee, Brook Lopez AND Chris Bosh. What’s better looking to James?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Except NJ will still be in a crapshoot next year
With the Brooklyn situation, although I agree that NJ has a lot of cards in its favor. If you think Chicago will have a rebuilding feel though, NJ is going to have a horrible gut feeling if they scrounge for about 12 wins.
Someone (can’t remember the writer; probably someone at ESPN) also made the quaint observation that if LBJ signed with Chicago, he’d have to walk by MJ’s statue every day to work. Can’t imagine that would go down that well.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Unless he's as competitive as Jordan.
Release the fire!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That's true tyger
but then if NJ has Bosh AND LBJ — that has to make Chicago the #1 destination for at least ONE out of Wade, Joe Johnson or STAT, right?
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 15, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno, Miami will have space for Wade and another max guy.
They could get Stoudemire. If Joe Johnson is the final answer, I’ll be okay with the 2010 plan, but I’ll view it mostly as a failure.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Kinda my thoughts too...
God, your signature is so depressing. I have been telling everyone I know about it though (I assume it’s fact).
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 15, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
If the people who contribute are on expiring deals, they wouldn't be in CHI in 2010 anyway
So I don’t think having guys who will leave will persuade someone to sign in CHI.
Moreover, you just aren’t likely going to get good players that are also on expiring deals for guys like Kirk or Deng. You have to pay a premium to move those contracts.
So, I see the choice as:
1) Move a big contract for bad players and at least have room to sign someone
or
2) Hold out for an awesome deal and then not have room to sign a FA
At least 1) gives you some chance to sign someone.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 15, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Wouldn’t we have room to sign a max FA if we traded any 2 of those guys(Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, or Salmons) for expirings? In fact, wouldn’t Hinrich or Deng pretty much take care of the problem? My problem is that the Bulls shouldn’t trade any more of their role players than necessary to be able to sign a max FA. They should retain as much talent as possible. It will make a terrible impression on any of the top FA’s next spring when the Bulls are 20-62, the UC is a ghost town, and VDN’s still coach because ’it’s not his fault, we had to give up most of our team to sign FA’s’. Holding out for a decent deal(I can’t see why the Bulls couldn’t manage to get a Tmac, Boozer, or at least an Al Harrington rental out of whoever we give up), is in our best interest. The trade deadline is 3 mo. away, we don’t want to be too hasty or give away more that will allow the Bulls to be decent this year.
You're misreading what I wrote or I wasn't very clear
The Bulls won’t have room for a max deal unless they move some of those guys. The Bulls do need to move Hinrich, Deng, or Salmons and Thomas to clear enough space to sign someone to max deal. If the Bulls hold out to get actual talent back, they aren’t likely find a deal they like and that means no room for a max contract.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 15, 2009 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
Deng can't be moved,
Hinrich is the easiest to move, he has a declining contract like his game, some GMs still think Hinrich is a good player
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 15, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
If we drop our next 5, a few being by blowouts, do you think VDN really stands a chance to remain here?
If VDN is gone, do you think we are automatically getting rid of TT?
What do you think he commands on the open market next year? His buddy, Big Baby, has played much better, particularly in his contract year (as much as I hate the bastard), and he received only 3m a year. The cap is expected to decline, so even if a team values TT as high as Baby Davis, TT would look to be had for no more than 3m a year. With his talent and upside, and VDN possibly being gone, is it really a foregone conclusion that we can’t resign TT, at least for a 1-2 year deal?
Even Nate “the great” Robinson didn’t get anything other than a 1 year, 4m offer from NY last year. No other teams even offered him anything else. Same goes for David Lee. Another team could’ve offered a 3-4 year deal, even at 7m a year (he got 1 year, 8m) and NY would’ve likely not been able to match it if Lee accepted.
With some of those big names out there, even if only one or two ends up jumping ship, I think the market is in for a very tight squeeze. A cap dropping means that many long term contracts are overvalued. Combine that with the union and owner agreement on the horizon, a lot of players are going to be out there for much less money than we are used to seeing. As the most profitable franchise in the NBA, we may actually do well when other teams start to remain under the cap, it kind of levels the playing field with our owner that refuses to go over the cap.
Summary: I’m not so sure Tyrus is automatically gone, especially if Vinny is fired.
Like Kurt's.
A cap dropping means that many long term contracts are overvalued.
TT is the carrot to get the Lakers to take on Kurt.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
Arrrg, meant to reply to RyPac13 :(
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 14, 2009 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
Too much of a locker room presence
Don’t expect him to get traded anytime soon; he’s essentially a co-captain with Kobe at this point. Only way he could possibly be moved is if Chicago agreed to immediately buyout his contract and he then resigned with LA after 30 days for the minimum, although I doubt Kupchak would do that.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
They don’t really need to trade Fisher. However, they do need to phase out his minutes over the next year or so. A Lindsey Hunter type role is in his near future. They could use a short term heir apparent, and in this scenario, Kirk could do that.
Ah, misinterpreted the post
Well, I’d argue Fisher is still much more effective than Hunter, although I agree that his role will be gradually phased out. Among his apparent successors, Farmar has played better than Brown, but Farmar isn’t an ideal fit for the triangle and makes accordingly poor decisions with the ball (although he’s noticeably improved this season over last year’s disaster). Yes, Hinrich would be a long-term solution to this problem, albeit a very expensive one. It’s one of the reasons I was disappointed the Lakers passed on Toney Douglas in the draft, as he offered all the things necessary for a triangle point — he shoots the ball, he defends really well, and he doesn’t turn the ball over. Hinrich can fulfill that role except with a much higher price tag.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Still far too expensive for his production
Even in the later years of his deal. I’d want a bit more than defense and three-point shooting from a $8-9 million player.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I think his production would increase with the Lakers. But that’s not the primary issue. This Lakers dynasty has a few years left max. It would be a shame if a few million dollars one way or the other prevented them from getting the most out of it. Hinrich’s contract runs out right about the time that Kobe, Artest, and Gasol will be declining. Perfect timing…
Now, I would agree to the trade
I agree that the window should be cemented so long as it’s available (although I think Kobe and Gasol will lose little to age). I’m just indicating, as you will likely agree, that Hinrich’s production isn’t worthy of the contract he has.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
True
Although in retrospect, it seems difficult to justify Hinrich’s contract even with his ‘06-’07 numbers. What were the general perceptions of the deal then?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Some here will dispute this, But at the time 17pts- 6ast- 42% 3pt., second team all NBA defensively, and maybe most important…26 year old senior member of a core seemingly destined for title contention. This made the deal reasonable when it was made(IMO). He was still improving at that point also. Subsequent events have obviously changed this, but nobody had the benefit of hindsight at the time.
jinx
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
he got the extension before that season, 3 years ago.
at that point, he was a 25-year-old, 3 year starting PG that had improved every year. His game wasn’t based on freak athleticism, so there was no expectation that he’d decline… even if he didn’t necessarily improve much more. Had he only marginally improved each year after his 2005-2006, he would have been more than worth it.
Unfortunately, no matter how well he played, drafting Rose cemented his worth for the Bulls would be far lower than his contract. Many people thought drafting Rose spelled doom for Hinrich as a Bull. Little did they know that it actually spelled doom for Ben Gordon, and opened the way for Hinrich to make a position switch. Just 20 months ago, I’m not sure anyone thought this franchise was THAT stupid.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
How did we not know this?
They paid MJ $4 million or less for 4 out of the 6 championships!?
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 15, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
I couldn't believe that if Hinrich were with $5-$6 million...
….and he thought he was a true talent upgrade for them, that they would scoff at the extra $2-$3 million. That just doesn’t seem like how good teams are made.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Again, Buss has been pretty money-conscious lately
And it’s hard to blame him with the level of money he’s putting out for this roster. Granted, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he gave Kupchak the green light to go ahead with this if it was available, but the team, as constructed, is a clear championship contender, so it downplays the incentive to upgrade somewhat.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I think
Hinrich would be more valuable on the Lakers, Kirk needs to be on a team where he has a dimenished role.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 15, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yea, I agree, I’m not saying this trade is a bad idea.
I am just saying, is it a foregone conclusion that Tyrus is gone this year?
A few weeks ago I agreed with almost everybody here that the writing was already on the wall. But now that VDN’s job may be in jeopardy, perhaps TT isn’t automatically gone?
Maybe it’s just wishful thinking on my part.
I understand the desire to move Kirk for expirings and I'm all for that...
But if we’re gonna give up Tyrus, we could get a lot more back than Farmar, Morrison, and Vujacic. This deal is just aiming way too low.
Really? What do you think they can get?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Well Al Harrington's name has obviously been floated around....
Although it looks like that’s not going to happen. However, the fact that the Knicks were considering moving Harrington for Tyrus should give you some indication of Tyrus’s current value around the league. And that value is much higher than Farmar, Morrison, and Vujacic.
However, we could probably get Farmar, Morrison, and Vujacic (or a package of similar quality) without moving Tyrus. If you want to propose something like Kirk for expirings straight up, that’s fine, but I don’t think moving Tyrus isn’t necessary in accomplishing that goal.
Oh my God
Why have 10 people said yes. THis trade is completely ludicrous….I might consider the trade for just HInrich, but no way if you add Tyrus (And I think if we did it for Hinrich we’re in talent getting the short end of the stick, but it’s for the 2010 FA class….
Next
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Wait until this summer when JR lets TT walk for nothing. :(
At least with this trade, the Bulls unload the now ludicrous Hinrich contract.
Why do almost a third on the Lakers board say no? http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2009/12/14/1200733/tyrus-thomas-hinrich-for-vujacic
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 14, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
I get that to a degree
And it should cement the odds at the #1 pick again….ugh….though after we get it HOORAY….
But I kind of want to watch my team, and I’ve been a big Tyrus guy from the gate….
I kind of hope TT comes back and we start gelling like a felon (those stupid Dr Scholl’s insoles commercials tag there—incidentally I bought those 6-7 years ago mostly so I could be annoying and whenever anyone asked what i was doing, I could say I was jelling….and well I wore them 3-4 times and they totally ripped my feet up like crazy, total blisters and I didn’t even do much more than a typical days walk around…crazy)….random there i KNOW….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
The only thing I like about this trade ...
This would present Tyrus Thomas with an excellent opportunity to learn how to play basketball in a reserve role with a great organization and mentorship if he really want it.
Kobe would tell him, dude if you were a student of the game and really loved basketball with you ability you wouldn’t have been enarmoured with present day Tracy McGrady, but moreso a special talent of the old school … “The Dream”
You ever wonder why now Kobe is studying and trying to perfect Hakeen Olajuwon’s post moves today? I believe it’s quite interesting.
Tyrus never was a student of the game, but a opportunist for a big paycheck. That might be a bitter pill for some.
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Becoming a post-up player worked for MJ as he aged and lost some explosiveness,
and I imagine Bryant has taken note.
You ever wonder why now Kobe is studying and trying to perfect Hakeen Olajuwon’s post moves today? I believe it’s quite interesting.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 14, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
yeah..Kobe's a student of the game...
I always saw tyrus as raw with little skill other that dunking ability.
Yet I tried to believe if he development nice post shake and bake moves similar to an Hakeem, it would be the perfect compliment to his ability. Imagine Tyrus post dribbles, head fake, ball fake slam dunk, then followed by fake 5 foot jumper…
No instead this guy wants to play behind the 3 pt line and drive wildly or pull up for a 18 foot shot with all of the jumping ability and excellent height just wasted. Heck a under six foot guy can do that!
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Well, Hakeem noted while teaching Kobe
That most of his moves are well-suited for guards operating out of the post. It’s really a matter of having the necessary patience to study the footwork.
That said, it seems odd that more players haven’t turned to Hakeem to help their game. Imagine, for instance, that Howard had been learning his offensive game from Hakeem rather than Ewing.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Great point
Hakeem’s moves all required so much agility and coordination that they are much better suited to a guard’s game. Bulls should bring him in.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 15, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
The Bulls should hire Adrian Dantley to teach Deng to post up.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 15, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
great point on Howard ..many times I thought the same thing
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
“Tyrus never was a student of the game, but a opportunist for a big paycheck. That might be a bitter pill for some.”
Wait, what? What big paycheck?
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
raw 19 year straight out of college whose rise was based on a few ncaa tournament games
not a whole season (or more) of hype to really see if he has the goods like a John Wall, or Derrick Rose or a Blake Griffin.
I’d say 5 to 6 million for 4 years has been a big paycheck for that 19th year old.
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Tyrus Thomas
Has performed well enough. He’s a better than average player who’s role gets thrown all around….
Folks forget that because he’s both hurt right now and well been a Bull….
He has value, it’s stupid to fire sale him.
I’m fine trading Tyrus, but let’s get something for him, and I’m only fine trading him because I see him being BG’d….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I commented on the equivalent thread at SS&R
So I’ll cross-post my response here:
Buss has been money-conscious ever since Bynum signed his extension (although it’s a bit more explainable when you have a league-leading payroll and a championship squad already; the BaB rants against Reinsdorf are totally legitimate), but even he would probably be willing to take on the additional salary for this kind of trade. Hinrich is a huge upgrade defensively over any of our current PGs, he’s the type of big guard that Phil likes, and I’m fairly certain his shooting is a deviation from his career norms (the fact Chicago doesn’t run any real offensive sets beyond the high screen for Rose doesn’t help either, but anyways). Getting Thomas is just icing on the cake, as he’ll just replace Powell in his cameo minutes off the bench (although BaB regulars will likely light themselves on fire if he develops any of his potential in LA while being horribly underdeveloped the past few years in Chicago).
The only question is Chicago’s willingness to actually make this trade. I know Thomas is already on his way out of town, much to the consternation of BaB regulars, but are Reinsdorf, Paxson, and Forman ready to part with Hinrich? I recall reading one time or another that reluctance to trade Hinrich stemmed from loyalty that Paxson felt towards him or something of the sort. This season is already essentially lost; even if Vinny gets the much-deserved hatchet, I can’t imagine the team working that much harder for Bickerstaff to get into the playoffs, especially given the much-documented shooting woes and Salmons’ regression. The only thing to play for now is a high lottery pick and more cap space, so it makes sense for Chicago to make a cost-cutting move like this; making sense, however, often isn’t enough to get something done in the NBA.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
BTW, was curious
Whether BaB regulars want to see Chicago get blown out tomorrow to speed up VDN’s ouster? Has it gotten to the point where poor performances are encouraged (with the according cynicism) to add onto the fire Vinny campaign?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I'm ready for Evan Turner.
Fire Del Negro. Get a real coach, draft Evan Turner. Re-sign Tyrus Thomas. I might not cry after that.
I hate that I look at the draft. I love paying attention to the draft, though. Weird.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Turner would be a great fit
So long as his back isn’t a long-term issue, I suppose. That said, I don’t think Chicago will be bad enough to get a top four pick (unless Turner slides due to the back issue; also assuming that Chicago fires Vinny and finishes somewhat decently to end the season), so how do foresee Davis, Motiejunas, Patterson, or Alabi fitting?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
My implication is that I'm ready for them to keep losing.
Don’t know if they will. Kinda hope they will. If they are going to suck and not get a max guy this summer, I want to see Reinsdorf suffer in the pocketbook because of it.
That said, I’d want either a play-making, 3-pt shooting, defending SG (M2GWCS&D), or a high-usage, high-rebounding, good-passing, mix of low-post and jump-shooting PF (say, Kevin Garnett). I don’t have the need for the low-post banger like Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph or even Andrew Bynum. I want Noah to stay under the basket on offense (for the most part, not exclusively) and for everyone else to stay out of the way to create driving and slashing lanes for Rose and/or Deng. Who fits that bill?
I still think a healthy Turner and good coach and Tyrus Thomas has a legit future, though.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
As for your needs
The only two lottery guards that meet that description are Evan Turner and Willie Warren. I’d say they’re pretty interchangeable, as both are adept at creating for themselves and others, but I’d give Turner the edge due to his size and his superior ball-handling ability.
For the four, that seems to describe Motiejunas perfectly, as he basically projects as the new Dirk. He has range (not three-point range, but 15-20 feet at this point), a really good low-post game, good ball-handling ability, and a really high basketball IQ. Only quibble is that he needs to put on a lot of strength, but then again, I don’t know a Euro prospect who doesn’t.
That said, if you think this team is going to have a top five pick, Favors and Davis will inevitably be the picks. Their ceilings are ridiculously high, and drafting for talent takes essentially all the priority in this case.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I agree with your last statement.
I haven’t been able to see much about Motiejunas yet.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
There's actually plenty of Euro prospects that don't need to add strength.
Well, disregarding that any < 23 professional athlete needs to add strength in general. Splitter, Pekovic, Ibaka, for a few.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
this org. should avoid guys with high ceilings; they dont work out here. actually the guys with low ceilings dont fare too well either. ugh.hout
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I havent seen him play
basically thanks to 2k (i know i know) ive taken a big intrest in college basketball this year…or rather bigger than ever before. More just to see the prospects that i like in 2k and compare them to real life. In 2k i ended up drafting the euro prospsect, but i was extremely intrigued by Xavier Henry, Evan turner, and Malcolm Lee (who seemed like the best shooter by far), also aldrich (i drafted him in a previous association which i never finished but liked him a bit) and Greg Monroe were nice, while i selected Michael Washington with my second round pick.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
It is a hard choice.
Part of me wants the Bulls to win or at least be competitive, and part of me wants the blow-out as the just desserts of the way Reinsdorf has deliberately mismanaged the team in order to use the profits to fund the White Sox.
Whether BaB regulars want to see Chicago get blown out tomorrow to speed up VDN’s ouster?
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Dec 14, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
The more I watch and think about the situation
the more I agree with the second part of your statement.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 15, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Moreso Paxson than Vinny. imo
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
I'd do this trade just to see someone from the Bulls celebrate a title, since it's not happening in this city anytime soon.
And watching Kirk and Tyrus interact with Kobe would be fun. Would he even acknowledge them? Does Shannon Brown just dunk on Kirk every day in practice?
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 15, 2009 12:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
