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Trade proposal from a Hornets fan.


Whatup Chi town? I havea trade proposal that I wanted to run by you guys. The move is pretty simple. David West for Luol Deng.

The move is a pretty straightforward deal.

For you guys: David West, one of the best pick and pop bigs in the game. Additionally he would be a terrific compliment to both Rose and to Noah. You guys run alot of high pick and roll, which makes alot of sense becuase ofthe point guard you have (granted it isn't working now because the wings can't/ aren't spacing the floor from the three point line).

D West is perfect for the high pick and roll because he can either 1) be the pick er in which case he draws his big with him because no one wants to leave him alone for an open j, or 2) he can be a floor spacer from the elbow if Noah is the picker. This was the type of pick and roll that the Hornets most often used with Chandler. Noah actually reminds me alot of Tyson. It really frees space up in the middle of the floor for both Rose and Noah. This allows Noah to use his speed and length to get back to the post, and it gives Rose more options.

Two other benefits are 1) West is an underrated shot creator. He gets a fair amount of assisted shots from Paul, but he also good at both taking bigs off of the dribble, and posting up on smaller defenders. and 2) He is a good passer from the high post. He's been really good with feeding Okafor this year and has been averaing a high assist rate recently for a forward.

Defensively, West is less mobile then Tyrus, and obviously Deng, but he is also bigger then both of them. He has a more solid frame then Noah as well and would take over a fair amount of the post defense duties so that Noah can be free to roam. Additionally, if he was playing against a banger then he could make them work on the defensive end. This worked really well for the Hornets when we had Chandler. West played post d and Tyson was our pick and roll/ weakside defender. West has had a down year so far in points but he has been playing much better of the last 10 days.

As for the Hornets... we move Deng to the 4. We will make use of his mid range j, since he loves to shoot that shot. He is also so quick for his size that becomes a great pick and roll defender and weak side defender. Okafor has the bulk so he can be our Kendrick Perkins type. Also, Deng is an excellent rebounder so we don't miss anything there. Perhaps mostimportanly we give CP3 a big who can run. This is crucial, because right now, no one can run with him so his vision and quickness is wasted.

Additionally, I don't think you can really pair Rose and Deng together in the long term. Neither one will ever be a 3 point shooter, so unless you get a stretch 4, you are doomed to only having one 3 point shooter on the court. This kills floor spacing, and it will make it much harder for rose to operate in the half court. Same goes for Deng, as people will just crowd him.

Now you might ask yourselves... why don't we just move Deng to the 4 spot permanently. He can hit the open J and play d and rebound. The problem is defensively, Deng isn't a great option for you guys. Pairing him Noahdoesnt work beacue neither one has the fram to be a banger.

The other issue would be what to do with with the wing now that Deng isn't there. I think you should move Salmonsback to the 3 where he can take advantage of quickness matchups, and trade Tyrus for a 2 who can shoot. With the size of Rose and Hinrich you'd be able to get a combo guard. I'd recommend Tyrus for Jerryd Bayless and Outlaw. Outlwa probably won't play this year, but he is an expiring. The Blazers need another big, and you guys could take advantage of Bayless's quickness.

Also West's contract actually declines every year and he makes a million less then Deng this year, so it gives you some extra cash to throw around next year and it gives a little extra money to buy a vet for a minimum contract this year.

And no, we wouldn't do Tyrus for West. We would need a first or some wing help that you guys can't really provide us.

Thoughts?

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If they were up for it

meaning both team managements..id say do it..We could move john salmons to that spot, and in david west we get a guy who is more willing to backdown defenders or play a bit in the post…while they are essentially the same player that have similar skillsets but utilize them differently, david west and his game as a pf helps us tons…plus its a smaller (shorter) contract….so yea id do this in a heartbeat

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Dec 12, 2009 6:39 PM CST reply actions  

What happened to him?

I used to be a huge fan of his game. Really well rounded. He could shoot, handle, and defend. It seems like he can’t buy a shot this year. He was always a better starter then bench player which masked his numbers. Now I’m not so sure.

Also, I’m not sure who we’d trade for him. We are tight on cash too, and the disappearance of his jumper sacres me.

by jdpourciau on Dec 12, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

addendum

I think Joe Johnson would be great for you guys (or alot of other teams. I’m a big fan of his game). But I think long term he will transistion to the 3 spot. Moving Deng frees the small forward position up. Because of his size and shooting ability I think Johnson will be a quality player for a long time, but moving to the 3 will help him.

Also assuming you guys have a pick this year, the draft is absolutely loaded with wings. Keep an eye out for James Anderson out of OK State. Great defender, amazing shooter, and he’ll most likely be available at the end of the first round.

by jdpourciau on Dec 12, 2009 7:09 PM CST reply actions  

Oh my god!

This trade would make me so happy!

We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
uhhhhh ohhhhhhhhh

by SoulEater7 on Dec 12, 2009 10:07 PM CST reply actions  

Triple sold.

I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.

by Prevenge on Dec 13, 2009 12:01 AM CST reply actions  

Someone make a call, plz

Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0

by bull83 on Dec 13, 2009 7:49 AM CST reply actions  

I like it and add this

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

and you get this:

Rose, Hinrich
McGrady, Hinrich
Thomas, Johnson
West, Gibson
Noah, Hayes

McGrady comes off the books 2010, West is tougher than Deng, 3pt shooting issue solved, Salmons contract solved, mo money mo money.

by PricanStar on Dec 13, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions  

Id do it

I did something similar in 2k (mcgrady is pretty decent when he is actually playing, but he gets injured like once a month or something…and im talking in 2k) At the very least we can be any worse than we are now can we? I still would like to go after Boozer and Korver though (ill be preaching this trade until the deadline)

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

that would make too much sense.

We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
uhhhhh ohhhhhhhhh

by SoulEater7 on Dec 13, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

david west really sucks

but i don’t care because the bulls don’t pull my heart strings. i say go for it.

he’ll still have a great point guard to make his numbers look good.

twitter.com/aighttho
http://howmuchyouthink.tumblr.com/

by stingy d on Dec 13, 2009 12:57 PM CST reply actions  

Um...

He has a better point guard right now. His numbers would likely take a dip.

That being said, I don’t mind this.

How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?

by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 13, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I would be much more interested in Emeka Okafor

there were reports that New Orleans was looking to dump him on Sacramento for Kenny Thomas’ contract. If those reports are true, the Bulls could offer Tyrus and Jerome James for Okafor and Devin Brown. The trade is salary neutral and it would provide the Hornets with immediate savings (JJ’s contract is insured) and a prospect.

If the Bulls than traded Kirk for cap space (please God) they could still have max cap space but have a much better nucleus of Noah, Okafor, Deng, Rose. I would think that is much more appealing to a big free agent than anything the Bulls currently have.

I’d also do a Okafor-Deng swap. And finally, yes I’d do West for Deng but I don’t think the Bulls front office would.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 13, 2009 2:45 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Doesn't work for us at all.

Those “reports” came straight out of Sacto. Hornets keep their stuff way close to the vest. The Chandler move was the only thing that they’ve eve telegraphed since I’ve been a fan. That rumor was a way to stir up interest in Sacto getting a big man for it’s expiring contract, period.

Not to mention neither one of those other deals is a fair trade for the Hornets. I’m not saying that Deng is a lesser player then Okafor, but that trade makes you guys much better off, and makes us a scrub team. Expiring don’t help us because we still won’t have the money or the assets to get a legit center. We’ll still be well over the cap.

D West can’t be paired with another power forward and be effective. It just wouldn’t work offensively and definitely not defensively. While he has an okay frame, but he doesn’t have the length for that. Houston is the only team that has been able to successfully play a 4 at the center position. And Chuck Hayes is an absolutely uique player.

Don’t get me wrong Okafor is a great match for West, but like I said that move hurts us even with a prospect like Tyrus who I believe can play (Louisiana bias).

Trades don’t have to produce winners and losers, both teams can win.

by jdpourciau on Dec 13, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

nevermind

i don’t think I would do a Deng for West swap. here is why – Deng can do everything West can, but he can also play strong D and run the floor. West contract is better, which makes the deal attractive. But I don’t kno

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 13, 2009 2:48 PM CST reply actions  

i respecftulyl disagree

Deng can do alot of things West cannot do, but that also goes the other way. West simply has a thicker frame then Deng, and he is much comfortable and experienced at posting up. He won’t get pushed around like Deng will, and he is a real deal post player even though a fair amount of his offense is operated from the high post.

We don’t need that as much as you guys do because we have Mek to give us the back to the basket game.

Long term, I don’t see Deng fitting in with your other best assets, namely Rose and Noah. He can’t space the floor for Rose and he is too skinny to pair with Noah.

by jdpourciau on Dec 13, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions  

i haven't seen West operate from the post much

but he does add that dimension. Here’s the thing though – Deng doesn’t get pushed around because Deng plays the 3. He only gets pushed around at the 4. And West may be bigger, but his 7 rebounds per games suggest he isn’t much of a banger. So West isn’t going to improve the defense or rebounding and will simply give the Bulls more midrange shooting.

I just don’t feel like West is “enough” to trade for Deng in any respect.

- He has a smaller, shorter contract, but its not that small and it doesn’t free up much room for 2010. If the Hornets were to take on Hinrich for expirings, than the deal would get more enticing.

- West is a good player, but overall it isn’t a talent upgrade. He may be bigger than Deng, but he is averaging less rebounds than Deng, so he doesn’t solve the Bulls defensive rebounding problems. Deng is a better defender, so he doesn’t solve the defensive problems. Its debatable if he is even a better offensive player than Deng. He certainly isn’t scoring like it and while he would improve the team’s balance, its debatable how much the offense would improve.

I’m not anti-trading Deng. In fact, I wrote a very long post detailing the reasons why the Bulls should trade Deng (although I’m not so adamant anymore). But trading Deng needs to be part of a larger plan for young prospects and/or cap space. To me, this seems like a lateral move. I’m not a big fan of West. I don’t like starting power forwards who can’t rebound. If the Bulls want West, they should just ask Deng to gain 10 pounds, shave his head, and name him the starting power forward.

I think the Hornets would have to add something (Julian Wright, Thorton, Cap savings) to make the Bulls bite. I don’t think the Hornets would do it, so I wouldn’t do this trade.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 13, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's my pitch

1) West has started slowly this year. Given some time he is going to get back up to his usal numbers. He started slowly last year too.

2) That smaller, shorter thing is a bigger deal then you seem to think. It allows you to get a rent a scorer like Mccants( would be perfect) or maybe Gerlad Green this year. And also saves you 3 million dollars for next year. That’s enough to get you the right role player or 3 scrubs to finish off the roster.

3) As for the defensive problems, like I said, West’s greatest asset on the defensive end would be to become your post defender leaving Noah free to roam and do the things he does best. Also, as for defensive rebounding, the biggest issue is often having having your best rebounder (Noah) tied up guarding the post. Again, this frees him up to clean up the boards.

4) Offensively having David West would tremendously improve your pick and pop game, It’s a big difference having that shot coming from a big then a wing because it really frees up space in the post.

5) As for long term, this move clears up the 3 spot for a guy like Joe Johnson ( I really think this will be his long term position as he gets older) or even for one of the many talented wings coming out of college that hit the 3 with ease.

You get good value for a good player, you save money, you improve offensively and defensively, and you prepare for the long term. Sounds liek a good deal to me.

For the Hornets, we get a pick and roll switching, jump shooting, fast break running perfect compliment to the best pg in the game.

by jdpourciau on Dec 13, 2009 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Deng gets pushed around anywhere

or maybe my memory is seared after seeing Prince abuse him in the ’07 playoffs.

But honestly, Deng rarely takes advantage of matchups, and when he does it’s only to fling jumpers over a shorter guy, not overpower him.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 14, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

its hard to trade Deng under the idea that he gets pushed around

for a guy who averages less rebounds than him. I checked West’s numbers, and based on past years his rebounding will probably improve. But there is also the fact that West is 29, 5 years older than Deng.

And I agree, Deng fails to take advantage of matchups. Its one of the reasons why I regularly blast him. The guy is usually bigger and stronger than the 3 he is matched up with but would rather settle for jumpers… However, when it comes to rebounding, Deng usually punishes smaller 3s.

I don’t think Deng can play the 4, like the Hornet fan wants though. He doesn’t rebound (against physical players) or play interior D well enough. And he doesn’t shoot well enough from the outside to be considered a stretch 4.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 14, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I actually blame coaching for most of Deng's short-comings.

Get him out to the 3-pt line 2 or 3 more times a game and he’s middle of the pack for small forwards in terms of 3pt attempts per game. You probably add 2 pts per game to his total. Get a real offense that gets him cutting more and closer to the basket and you probably bump the TS% up another few. I’ll take a guy who scores 19 per game, takes three 3’s and shoots TS% .54. That’s actually Al Harrington for you. Add in all the other stuff, and you’ve got yourself a Top-5 SF again.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Dec 14, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

SOLD ALSO

but if nothing else, illd take Ike for Pargo…just sayin

What happened to the Da Bulls?

by Belize on Dec 13, 2009 5:26 PM CST reply actions  

I'm for it

but I like Smurf’s Okafor idea a little better. I’m down either way.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 13, 2009 6:34 PM CST reply actions  

Im down for that, say no more, lets do it

"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2

P.S.
"The fact of the matter is the chicago bulls have never been a contender since I left..."----Johnny Kilroy

by chi_till_eye_die on Dec 14, 2009 12:55 AM CST reply actions  

I'm pretty sure the Hornets would want Tyrus also.

TT would thrive playing next to Okafor and with Paul as his PG. If im N.O I make the Bulls include TT with Deng. If TT doesn’t work out you let him walk and still have Deng. Heck I would even throw in Asik lol.

Homecoming

by illwill on Dec 14, 2009 4:44 AM CST reply actions  

I'm totally for this one

West fits a need, West is probably a shade better, Salmons could be a SF more again (yay)….we’d be thin at the 2 spot and would probably have to start:
Rose-Salmons-Tyrus THomas-David West-Joakim Noah…..but that’s a talented lineup nonetheless and having a real inside scoring presence would mask the deep ball threats a bit more and just might make Salmons more efficient….

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Dec 14, 2009 10:12 AM CST reply actions  

I was initially intruiged..

but the cap savings aren’t much, only $1m and change for ’09 tax and 2010 cap room.

And West is 29, Deng is 24.

I don’t really see the point, since West is signed through 2010, and he’d probably opt out and the Bulls wouldn’t want to re-sign him at that age. Or maybe they would since they loved Hinrich/Salmons so much and they aren’t near Rose’s age either.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 14, 2009 11:04 AM CST reply actions  

i dont think deng has anymore upside

maybe a spike in rebounds for a season..i dont see him having a steady rise, just a rollercoaster ride…

(somebody please disagree and give me some hope)

What happened to the Da Bulls?

by Belize on Dec 14, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

This trade doesn’t really improve the team. Both players are injury prone, both are jumpshooting 6’9 players. West is a pretty sorry rebounder for a PF and doesn’t really post up that much at all. At this point, Deng is the better player. The only real plus is we are freed from Deng’s contract.

by C Smoove on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 PM CST reply actions  

It puts you in a position to improve.

By itself this move doesnt make you better because there will be a hole at the wing, but if you get a renta scorer like Shaddy this year, and if you get a max contract player next year like JJ then this definitely makes you a better team.

As a general rule you need at least two 3point shooters to effectively spread the floor otherwise people crowd the box on you. That’s why Deng will never work with Rose because neither of them can consistently shoot from there, and I think Rose’s improvement as a player will come more from better vision/ better comfort, and a more versatile floor game, not from an improved 3 point shot.

Also, I think a Rose, Hinrich, Salmons, West, Noah team would actually be really good. 3 above average defenders, a fast team built for the fast break, and good floor spacers to open up the paint for their inside game.

by jdpourciau on Dec 15, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

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