Joe Johnson the 2010 Bull?

Johnson, sources say, is intrigued about teaming up with Bulls point guard Derrick Rose(notes). Johnson’s agent, Arn Tellem, also is close to Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and the Bulls would love an elite perimeter shooting threat to make up for the loss of Ben Gordon(notes).

about 2 years ago SoulEater7 27 comments 1 recs |

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well, the Arn Tellem thing is definitely intruiging.

and a 5-year max to Joe Johnson would be overpaying, but who cares. Lock me into mediocrity, better than this shit.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2009 2:24 PM CST reply actions

Ben Wallace Part Duh

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions

JJ isn't max worthy

but he’s only 28 and won’t try to usurp our coach(I’m assuming it won’t be VDN).

by diedaily23 on Dec 11, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions

Why wouldn't he?

It’s not a matter of a guy actively attempting to do it. When it comes to the NBA, a guy with a $16M paycheck is authority. In the pecking order of the NBA, he’s up there. And veteran players in general are up there.

It’s not that I hate JJ or think he’s a bad player. But we need to understand the things that come along with paying a guy the max. In Chicago in general, not just with the Bulls, we tend to respond toxically to such things.

The Bears go out and trade for a QB with a cannon for an arm, and then pair him with a crummy O-line and a bunch of receivers nobody could pick out of a lineup.

The Bulls bring in a guy like Wallace, overpay for him, and say he’s “another piece of the puzze”. But then, then cut salary and never add the other piece.

In short, teams say one thing and do another. I have zero faith that this team would appropriately build around a player it felt it was overpaying to get. It simply wouldn’t. It would be an excuse to cut corners somewhere else, and the inevitable backlash won’t be pretty.

Rather than do that, I’d see them just be honest about things, not take a shortcut, and commit to actually building this team right. So, you know, we might have some sort of sustainable growth.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Well, that's exactly what would happen if we "overpay" for a guy in JR's eyes

he’ll parade that around like he’s done us some great service all the while he’ll be cutting corners everywhere else. Like he’ll let Noah go in two years. Our starting frountcourt will be Taj Gibson, Luol Deng and Omer Asik. With Aaron Gray and James Johnson being the first two off the bench. Ugh, that team wins maybe 35-40 games, tops.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 11, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions

I think we're talking about 2 different things

I thought you were comparing the 2 players in terms of talent and character, but looking at your response you’re talking about the org..which I would completely agree with.

by diedaily23 on Dec 11, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, sorry... I was taking that in my own direction

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions

Haha, it's ok

I read your post and didn’t see anything I disagreed with.

by diedaily23 on Dec 11, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions

yeah, he won't be as bad as Wallace

the usurping wasn’t even so bad, as his decline to someone not even belonging in the NBA.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions

I know right?

seems very Reinsdorfian.

We are the worlds dumbest city!- Dan Bernstein
uhhhhh ohhhhhhhhh

by SoulEater7 on Dec 11, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions

When Arn met Jerry

“I’m back for more cash for my best client. Fork it over Jerry. If you don’t you can have McGrady ten years after you failed to secure him.”

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Dec 11, 2009 2:54 PM CST reply actions

Thats a Kenny Williams

move, getting players you wanted after they passed their prime

by QUINTEN DALEY on Dec 11, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions

Weird stat

Last 20 years, just 18 players between 6’4" and 6’8" have played >10000 minutes from age 29-33 with a PER over 15. To make Johnson’s contract worth the money, I think that would be the lowball expectation.

I know there’s a lot of stipulations in that filter, but that same filter with players 27-31 produces 31 qualified. From 25-29, there’s 45.

Perhaps even the slimmest chance of landing LeBron/Wade/Bosh is worth clearing cap space for. But if there’s a way we can go backwards: trade our expirings for good long-term players now (what kind of player with a longterm deal can we get for Brad Miller’s contract, for example) that might be a safer way to build a good, young core immediately. I liked Joe Johnson if he was adding on to an already established team. Adding him to a 30 win team, with Rose a few years away from peaking, is probably a bad investment.

by YaoPau on Dec 11, 2009 3:10 PM CST reply actions

Um, agreed.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 11, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly, exactly, exactly

Did I say “Exactly?”

by hlac on Dec 11, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions

I expect that to happen at the trade deadline.

by hlac on Dec 11, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions

The problem is Bulls management/ownership

We can discuss what moves should be made to move the Bulls closer to a championship, but the reality is constrained by what the Bulls are actually willing to do. They will not pay the luxury tax unless it is to keep championship team together. So, having a player on max contract limits them in extreme — they won’t spend money to put other good players next to Johnson and they probably would end up letting Rose go for nothing because they can’t afford both JJ and Rose.

So, you’re right in that signing JJ to a max deal (which doesn’t look possible right now) would be a mistake. The Bulls are better off writing off this season (and probably the next season as well), gathering high draft picks and punting on FAs. It’s they only way they can accumulate enough cheap talent to contend. Of course, we know they aren’t especially good at drafting or developing talent, so it’s hard to get excited about sucking for several years for a low probability return.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 11, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions

What! You confused me..........except where you said it's a bad investment. Are you an accountant?

by Mr Rhythm on Dec 11, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions

Like trading Kirk Hinrich for Ben Gordon.

(sorry, I suck.)

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Dec 11, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions

On the other hand...

Compare him to some of the guys on that list.

Here

If you average his first two seasons and use them as one*, he compares favorably, if not perfectly to to those four guys. He’s clearly better than Allan Houston and clearly not as good as Reggie Miller. I think he looks decent next to Ray Allen. Worth the max? Meh. But not disastrous. Definitely better than Gordon.

*As a very crude way as saying that his rookie year shouldn’t count asmuch because no one else in that group played that young, but that his second year shouldn’t be counted fully (just knocking off the rookie year) because it was still his 2nd year of experience in the NBA, which clearly counts for something.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Dec 12, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions

Someone will give JJ the max

If Lebron or Wade stays there’s gonna be teams with a ton of money to spend. Rashard Lewis got the max, JJ will get it

by The90sBullsRevival on Dec 11, 2009 4:08 PM CST reply actions

Joe Johnson doesn't deserve this money!!!!!

The man hasn’t led the Hawks anywhere and his team is more talented than the Bulls now. Joe Johnson will be 30 in a year. He’s not very athletic anyways and you want to give him a long term maximum contract? Give this money to Rudy Gay, give it to D. Wade, Bosh, Amare, but not Joe Johnson. He’ll give you 20 points but what else? It seems the Bulls are paying for names instead of what the indiviual brings to the table. We just played against Johnson’s team and he wasn’t the 3rd best player on his team that game, Crawford, Smith and Horford all out played him, yet we want to pay him all of this money that we could have given to keep BG, and Tyrus! If the Bulls get Joe Johnson the fans will hate him and the group that wanted him here.

by Mr Rhythm on Dec 11, 2009 5:42 PM CST reply actions

I agree Johnson isn’t worth the max, but with FAs you almost have to overpay. There are no bargains…this is the NBA not fuggin Walmart.

Also what is with yer mancrush on Rudy Gay…he can score but is average at everything else. He’s athletic as hell tho

by C Smoove on Dec 14, 2009 8:30 PM CST up reply actions

Would you give the max to Amare if the big 3 are gone?

by Option27 on Dec 11, 2009 6:15 PM CST reply actions

Yes. Amare and Rose would be fantastic.

Amare’s D is more or less crap, but it’s not worse than Taj and his offense is fucking amazing. Amare is worth the money. I think Bosh is better, but I still think Amare is worth a max deal. There are only so many guys in the league that are capable of playing on his level.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Dec 11, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

What's your Budenholzerdangle guy do?

Defense? What about Rose, Deng, Amare, Noah and some shooting guard? A defensive minded coach could get that team to play top-5 defense… And the offense would be damn efficient if Rose made a jump, if not incredibly exciting.

Getting Amare and Evan Turner and a defensive-minded coach (that was good), would be about as good as the Bulls could do.

PROFIT!!!

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Dec 11, 2009 11:53 PM CST up reply actions