KC Responds to an Email: Bulls were pulling '08 BG offer regardless

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2009 9:07 AM CST

I'm making this a FanPost because it's kind of long and wordy. Doug reports "Bulls wanted to dump Gordon no matter what?". He reports on a email sent to KC from RealGM poster Homo Sapien.

HomoSapien:

The Bulls benched Gordon for Chris Duhon for a season and a half. They benched him for Larry Hughes for 25 games. They offered him much less money than Luol Deng, and then took away his offer the moment he was ready to accept it. This off-season Reinsdorf was quoted as saying that Gordon wouldn't have been able to get playing time behind Rose, Hinrich, and Salmons. Gordon is arguably the best player amongst this group, and currently has the highest PER. Are the Bulls brass just delusional or are they just really disrespectful towards him?

KC:
Disrespectful to him. Never understood their stance with BG. As for the pulled offer, I've heard they decided they made a mistake even offering it to him so even if he said he wanted to sign it, the offer was going to be pulled.

Doug is flummoxed and pissed.

What it seems to point me to is that the Bulls, even more than treating a sport like a business, treat business like a matter of personal friendship and business personal at a ridiculous level. Certain guys are described as and treated like family, despite glaring flaws. Other guys could walk on water and will never be family. It's messed up, and it's no way to run an muli-million dollar business.

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Comments

hahaha, i just made a fanshot about this.

Out coaching VDN, so easy a cave man could do it.

by ssheth12 on Dec 11, 2009 9:14 AM CST reply actions

shame KC couldn't actually 'report' this.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2009 9:36 AM CST reply actions 5 recs

yeah, not only is it sad to realize that about the organization

but we also can’t get proper news from the reporters. Everything is skewed and it sucks. Reporters need to grow some fucking balls. This is sickening. Have some self-respect.

by i_like_turtles on Dec 11, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah it's exactly why

Jason Goff caught hell from Kendall Gill for asking the question everyone knew needed to be asked of Vinny. The media in this town is complicit in the way our sports teams are ran. It’s always been said that BG couldn’t contribute to a championship team so guess what? Fans believe it and he’s gone. Same thing is happening to Tyrus now.

by Dils on Dec 12, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions

Well, it's commentary I suppose. :)

But yeah.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions

well, the part about the Bulls going to pull the offer regardless of the arbitrary deadline?

that’s news, right?

if only to make that jackass commenter StephenAA (the guy who insists that Reinsdorf ‘keeping his word’ is more important than winning. Also they try to make Tyrus Thomas a better man. Man I hate that guy…) read it.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions

Good point.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions

Chicago sports reporters drive me NUTS with their lack of basketball knowledge...

I wonder if any city has truly great bball coverage. NY and Boston maybe?

by smash! on Dec 11, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions

SERIOUSLY.

Like, really? It’s news. You report it. You don’t go “Oh, this would make the organization look bad! Guess I can’t tell anybody, ho ho ho. Or, if I do, I’ll put it in a blog somewhere hidden.”

I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.

by Prevenge on Dec 12, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions

It's weird that Bulls reporters, Sam Smith and KC both, respond to reader emails

Often saying stuff they wouldn’t write about.

I’m afraid though that blogging about it will shut off the hose…and we’ll get even less out of them…

by RichKarp on Dec 11, 2009 10:03 AM CST reply actions

yeah, I wonder if KC knew that'd be 'published'

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions

I've wondered about that

but what good is building up a good report with the team if they never let anything out.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions

It's absurd that they are able to continue to be so profitable with a business run this poorly.

I’ve about had it.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Dec 11, 2009 12:45 PM CST reply actions

The business is run perfectly from a profit standpoint.

But yes, it’s amazing that people keep spending money on the team.

by diedaily23 on Dec 11, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions

My point is that it's amazing that they continue to profit because usually profits are tied

to winning. Not with the Bulls. It’s because we have stupid, docile fans.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Dec 11, 2009 6:11 PM CST up reply actions

Deja vu all over again from last season to this one!

by Mr Rhythm on Dec 11, 2009 2:20 PM CST reply actions

This is what I don't get about the Ben Gordon thing

What did he ever do that didn’t fit what the organization wanted? He never had any problems on or off the court. He was a total professional dealing with unwarranted benchings and fluctuations in playing time. Even once Deng got his contract he went out and played a good season without pouting or anything that typically happens in the NBA. Pax and Skiles always talked about how hard he worked during the offseason and how he was always in the gym. It’s just totally irrational the way he was dealt with as if he was some kind of cancer.

"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah

by bigballa10 on Dec 11, 2009 2:31 PM CST reply actions

didn't kiss the ring

didn’t remind ’dorf of the 70s Knicks.

(honestly, I don’t know either)

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions

Kissing the ring and not being your typical "gritty" player (i.e. white guys and Deng)

hurt Gordon the most in my opinion. God, I hate Jerry Reinsdorf. I wish he would let me interview him and then put the report on the nightly news. I’d do it for free. Hell, I’d even pay to do it.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 11, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions

I don't, because I would get arrested for beating his ass.

I wish he would let me interview him

We miss you, Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Dec 11, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions

I think B.G's only problem was his size

He’s a 6 foot scoring guard and it caused match up problems. This is why I don’t understand some fans asking for Monta Ellis or another small shooting guard. I also don’t get why the Bulls didn’t draft a tall shooting guard. I’m not sure if they’re banking on getting Wade in 2010 or if they really thought Salmons would just turn into a great scorer in one season. I have to think they are gonna make a serious push for Wade, they drafted two power forwards to replace TT and they didn’t resign BG to throw all the money they have a a free agent. So I don’t think it’s a really a matter of them not wanting B.G, I think the organisation is really trying to save up for one big power move.

by Mr Rhythm on Dec 11, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions

Why the fuck did they draft Gordon then?

Did they not realize he was short before they drafted him? I don’t think Gordon became any shorter after he was drafted. They already had Hinrich, so did they not realize that Gordon and Hinrich would be a short backcourt? Does this franchise have any foresight whatsoever?

by Big D on Dec 11, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions

if he's 6'0" (or shorter) like 98% of NBA watchers claim

then yeah, he did actually shrink after the draft.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Dec 11, 2009 11:33 PM CST up reply actions

Did they not bring him in for a workout before the draft and measure him?

I know the Bulls are cheap, but can they not even afford a tape measure?

by Big D on Dec 13, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

He's a little taller than D rose

I saw that in the playoffs. I think he’s at least a legit 6’2

by BigBabyCollin on Dec 15, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

He was drafted for his offensive ability, and by that measure it was certainly justified. One of the hardest things to judge with a perimiter college player is man-to-man defense. So many teams play zone defense most of the time. You can tell if a player has quick feet/hands, or if they are generally athletic, but man defense is a skill frequently not displayed in college. BG has the physical tools to be a good defender, and his work ethic is beyond question. In spite of this, he’s bad at man defense. Most people blame his height, but as mentioned Hinrich isn’t really any taller and he’s a good defender. Gordon is faster, stronger, and a better leaper than Hinrich, yet Hinrich is a much better defender. The difference is obvious….COACHING. Hinrich wasn’t BORN with defensive skills any more than Gordon was born with the ability to be a great shooter. It has to be taught, and learned. IMO, the Bulls failed to give him the instruction required to make him solid defensively. Teams bring in specialists all the time to teach post moves to their young bigs or whatever, but the Bulls draft a player 3rd and then seemingly put NO extra effort into correcting his deficiencies(which are correctable). The Bulls failed Gordon LONG before they failed to resign him. They definately show no foresight, and it’s very likely that they’ll regret not resigning Ben(if they’re not totally stupid they should be regretting it already).

by kingles on Dec 12, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions

Wasn't Skiles a defensive coach?

And a good one too?

by jpm356 on Dec 13, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions

Yes, Skiles is a good defensive coach. But there is a difference between a coach who preaches a good defensive SCHEME, and a coach to teach an INDIVIDUAL how to be a good man defender. Skiles used what he had to advantage by having Hinrich guard the opponents best offensive guard, letting BG concentrate on what he’s best at. This worked fine as long as he had a strong defender playing next to him, but when they got Rose(who wasn’t strong defensively either) his defense became more of an issue. The Bulls should have brought in a SPECIALIST to teach BG man defense, like other teams bring in specialists to teach post offense, post defense, or shooting(the Bulls should get one of these immediately). They did invest the #3 pick in the draft on him after all. They should have tried harder to correct his deficiencies, but instead they schemed around them and then used them as an excuse not to resign him. Talk about not developing your young players, I just hope they don’t make the same mistake with Rose.

by kingles on Dec 13, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions

Paxson drafted him

So i think he knew talent, reinsdorf is the one who took charge later…Its like being a kid and bringing home a new tool,

“hey dad check this out, i know it looks small, but this things packs a huge punch and takes care of a major need, it maybe one of the best tools ever”
“son how much will it cost me?”
“Not much more than what some of the other tools cost you, in fact a little less than that new one you bought that keeps breaking”
“Now son, money doesnt go on trees, i want you to return it”
“but dad it can really help us out”
“Listen, Just use it for now, but before the return date expires i want you to give it back,”
“Couldnt we just sell it instead "
“Son….”
“okay okay…next time ill just have gar do the shopping”

I think that pretty much sums it up…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Dec 12, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs

perfect analogy.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Dec 12, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions

That about sums it up

"It hurts, man. All losses hurt."-Joakim Noah

by bigballa10 on Dec 14, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions

He was 6'2"

and longer and taller reach than Hinrich

but you know, whatever

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Dec 11, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions

So in other words...

You let a 26 yr old 2guard on his way to having a “Reggie Miller” type of career go for nothing for the “opportunity” to go after Dwane Wade? Makes no sense. Nah this crap goes back to who this organization valued and who they invested in.

They gave the company guys, Kirk and Deng the money, period. Then they decided not to give their most consistent player his share. I’ve never heard anyone complain about Ray Allen’s defense or Reggie Miller’s. All they talk about are the big shots they’ve taken. That’s what championship contenders are stacked with…Difference makers. What you’re seeing now this season is what happens when you take one of those guys off your team. All these blowouts and close losses are what BG covered up for the last 5 years. My God the guy made the playoffs all but once in his career!

I no longer trust this franchise to do anything right and they have really taken the joy out of me watching them play. Not because of the players but because of what’s happening up top. BG is a symbol of what this organization didn’t do right and how their priorities are all screwed up.

by Dils on Dec 12, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions

I’m not sure how BG was less of a “company guy” than Hinrich or Deng. When did Gordon complain about his role, or refuse to hustle, or anything of that sort? He’s always been professional, and at least outwardly respectfull towards Bulls management. The answer must lie elsewhere.

by kingles on Dec 12, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions

Theory

If you reward guys who don’t deserve it, or don’t believe they deserve it, they reward you with loyalty. If you pay a guy who believes he’s worth every penny you’re paying him, you won’t be buying loyalty because you’re making a fair trade.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Dec 12, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions

I think that the fact that the Hinrich & Deng signings are widely considered mistakes made them hesitant to offer another big contract to a non superstar player. When you couple that with the fact that they hoped they could adaquately replace him with a cheaper player for this season, and that one of their primary free agent target plays BG’s position it makes their action more understandable(to them). Stupid…sure, but there is some kind of logic to it.

by kingles on Dec 13, 2009 3:23 AM CST up reply actions

Finding this out makes the blow-outs this season much easier to bear.

Bulls Organization deserves to lose for the way they treated Gordon.

We miss you, Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Dec 11, 2009 5:47 PM CST reply actions

karma

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Dec 12, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions

And yet...

Bulls fans still feel the need to boo him during multiple possessions at the UC. Our whole organization, from the players, to the staff, to the fans, to the guy selling hot dogs, BUSH LEAGUE.

The only thing offensive on our team is the coaching.

by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 12, 2009 12:10 AM CST reply actions