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Interesting Trade Idea: S-Jax & Anthony Randolph

Someone on "Ask Sam" proposed an interesting Tyrus trade involving Golden State.  Here are two variations that would work:

Trade #1: Tyrus and Salmons for Anthony Randolph and Stephen Jackson

Trade #2: Tyrus and Hinrich for Randolph, Jackson, and Speedy Claxton (for salary matching purposes)

There are definitely some problems with both scenarios - not the least of which is Tyrus' injury - but given Don Nelson and the Warrior's general dysfunction, it could have some legs.

Star-divide

Why The Bulls Do It:

At this point, we all know why Tyrus, Hinrich, and Salmons are all either expendable or not in the long term plan for this Bulls team.  Personally, I am a big Tyrus fan, but it's clear that management has given up on him.  Salmons and Hinrich are also very talented, but tenuous fits at best in the long term.  Then there are the contract issues.  Tyrus will be a restricted free agent, and it will be nearly impossible to resign him as well as sign a marquee free agent due to cap restrictions.  Hinrich is a highly overpaid backup PG with a long-term contract.  Salmons is highly underpaid, and will likely demand more money than is available either this summer (if he opts out), or next summer.

This leaves us in a situation where if we are successful in signing a marquee free agent, pretty much unless that free agent is Bosh, Taj Gibson will be the starting PF (yikes!  I mean I like Taj, but he's no starter.).  If the bulls are able to sign Wade or Joe Johnson, we'll be right back into "guard glut" territory.  Plus the team would have an inefficiently humongous percentage of resources dedicated to the back court.

Hence the reasoning behind this trade.  Anthony Randolph gives us much of what Tyrus does on the court, and does so without as many off court issues (seems like basically a good kid, though he does have a bit of a reputation).  Even better, his contract is less than half of Tyrus' contract on an annual basis, and he has 2 years remaining, as opposed to Tyrus' 1 year.  As a result, the Bulls - if still under the cap - will have the ability to sign a marquee free agent this summer without loosing their starting PF.  The Bulls would then be in a good position to resign Randolph next year, as there is no problem going above the cap to extend your own player.  Randolph's ceiling is perhaps even higher than than Tyrus', and he would probably value his floor time a lot more too after being stuck in Nellie's dog house.

...And then there's Stephen Jackson.  Ok.  I agree.  He's not an ideal personality fit with this team (or maybe any!).  But he does bring experience, a great all-around game, exemplory defense, and decent three point shooting.  In a perfect world, the Bulls would turn this into a three team trade so as to avoid him actually putting on a Bulls uniform.  But more than likely, we'd be stuck with him - at least for a little while.  So I would suggest embracing "The Stephen Jackson Experiment" - at least initially.  Give him until the trade deadline to see if he is capable of contributing on the court without disrupting our supposedly harmonious locker room.  If it works, great.  If not, put him back on the block.  The Warriors are looking for a lot in return for him, and thus haven't found many suitors, but perhaps if all the Bulls were interested in was an expiring contract, there's a chance they could figure something out.  That said, expiring contracts are a hot commodity going into this off season, so who knows.

If the Warriors will only accept Trade #1, and the Bulls can't find a way to trade Jackson, then we can kiss the Summer of 2010 goodbye (which would suck).  If, however, the Warriors like Hinrich, and take Trade #2, then the Bulls are able to maintain cap space regardless of whether or not Jackson is traded before the summer (Jackson's contract is actually on par with Hinrich's, except one year longer).  If the Bulls are unable to attract a max FA, and S-Jax actually fits in ok ith our team, then he can be the 2010 backup plan.  Not a bad option at the 2 if he can find away to get along with the players and coaches.

In any event, it gives the Bulls a lot of flexibility by hedging our bets for summer 2010, and simultaneously providing one or two additional high quality players with which to attract free agents.  The only truely terrible scenario is if he turns out to be a cancer and we can't trade him.

Why Golden State Does It:

The decision to extend Captain Jack has blown up in their face.  He wants out, and the Warriors are trying to accommodate him, provided they get something decent back in return. Both Hinrich and Salmons are starting caliber players, both play multiple positions, and both should do well in Nellie's small ball system.  They are likely to want Salmons more than Hinrich though, as they don't really need another PG (with Ellis and Curry on the roster), and Salmons' contract is much more palatable.

With regard to the other major component of this trade, Anthony Randolph is in Nellie's doghouse, and only getting 20 minutes per game.  Perhaps Nellie would appreciate Tyrus Thomas' more developed game, and might believe (as I do) that a change of scenery would do Tyrus well.  Tyrus' injury is certainly not helpful here, but it's unlikely that they'll be able to find a suitor for Jackson anytime soon.  On the other hand, with Nellie's mercurial personality, it's entirely possible that he'll be playing Randolph 40 minutes per game by the time Tyrus is healthy, thus nullifying this whole idea.



Conclusion:

I'm still not convinced it's a great plan for either team, but it's definitely worth the Bulls looking into.

Poll
Which of the following is best for the Bulls?

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The problem with this trade is that I don't want Stephen Jackson on this team

and I don’t want his contract here either. The 2nd trade is pretty much salary neutral – but I think Hinrich is much better for the Bulls going forward than Jackson.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 8, 2009 8:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

APM says Jackson isn't a great defender

-0.24 defensive since ‘06. Still, he’s decent and posted a ridiculous statline last season. And if we can get Randolph (or even Brandan Wright) also for Tyrus, I’d be happy we still have a talented young piece going forward.

by YaoPau on Nov 8, 2009 8:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

GSW

won’t trade Anthony Randolph. Something has to blow up in the Bay Area where Randolph plays very little and his agent starts demanding a trade.

Randolph is going to be very good.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Nov 8, 2009 9:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

According to Sam Smith (I know), Randolph might be on the block,

and the Warriors have expressed interest in Tyrus Thomas in the past:

Which finally brings me to my point, Anthony Randolph. He’s been dropped to third string behind Mikki Moore—yes, Mikki Moore—and the local media is saying Randolph has attitude and ego problems, which sounds an awful lot like an organization turning on a guy. It just so happens the Warriors have in the last few seasons expressed interest in Tyrus Thomas, a Nelson kind of big man who can play in transition, Of course, Thomas is out now at least a month, and I haven’t heard that there have been any talks with the Warriors for some time. But Randolph’s a guy a lot of teams figure to inquire about given his uncertain situation.

by Diz on Nov 9, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm more looking at is as a way to acquire Randolph

I’d hope that Jackson could then be traded away. But you never know. Jackson has been a key piece for a few good teams over the years. It’s not inconceivable that he could work out in Chicago.

Either way, so long as the bulls are able to maintain cap space, Randolph would give us much a much better prospect at PF regardless of how well Tyrus plays this year or how much or little the org likes him. It’s impossible to keep Tyrus and sign an all-star free agent.

by Diz on Nov 8, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If they could trade for SJax and then flip him for some expiring K from a contender, that would be pretty nice.

Or just do it as a three way trade. Anthony Randolph is awesome.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 9, 2009 12:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OTOH, if you're convinced that Thomas is gone and the Bulls will strike out in 2010 FA...

….and that Del Negro will be fired, and that they might make a commitment to developing youth, andt that Luol Deng might actually be serviceable, getting an actual talent for the PF spot on another rookie contract to go with Rose, Deng and Noah, might be worth it.

Trade everything else that’s tradeable, basically, Hinrich.

Hmm… Yeah, Jax contract sucks. Tim Thomas him for 3 years. hah. No. Never mind.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or best case scenario

is trading Hinrich and Tyrus. That way regardless of being able to dump Jax, cap flexibility is maintained, plus we add Randolph.

by Diz on Nov 9, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's because Anthony Randolph is awesome.

Even so … I’m hesitant.

I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.

by Prevenge on Nov 9, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m for it if we could get rid of S-Jax b4 UFA season, but that wouldn’t happen. GSW would never trade A_R for TT though they’d laugh us off the phone lines, they don’t need/want hinrich (Curry/Ellis) they have enough combo guards unless Nellie plays kirk at PF which is isn’t possible even for him. But I’m all on the A_R over TT bandwagon(sorry ty)

by BullFan on Nov 9, 2009 1:52 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

considering how tyrus has fared during his time with this org.,

why would anyone think chicago would be a good place for randolph? he wouldnt play here either.

"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."

by TheMoon on Nov 9, 2009 11:51 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I think he would play here. Tyrus has played. Just not enough. Randolph can barely get off the

bench for GS despite being one of their best players and its because Nelly irrationally hates him. So, yeah, I guess it is pretty similar to Tyrus, but maybe both guys just need a change of scenery and whatever personal issues that Nelly and AR have and Vinny and Tyrus have will be removed.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 9, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Chicago's a good place for any young player

Besides Taj Gibson and probably Tyler Hansbrough :)

I just see the Bulls losing Tyrus and Kirk for nothing. Tyrus because of 2010 cap space, Kirk because if we hold him for another couple years, he’ll be old and less valuable.

We’ve got a good core in Rose-Deng-Noah. If we can just spin Tyrus/Kirk into one valuable piece that’ll be here for years then add a decent free agent, we could really be something. Rose-Joe Johnson-Deng-Randolph-Noah would get me excited going forward.

by YaoPau on Nov 9, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How would you guys feel about this?

Assuming Sam Smith’s presumption that GS wants to move Randolph is correct:

Tyrus and James Johnson for Randolph and Speedy Claxton

Salaries work. Plus, Tyrus and JJ could dominate in a Nellie small ball system. JJ might even be able to play some point forward. Bulls get a bit of cap space for next season, plus Randolph, and the best part is…no S-Jax!

by Diz on Nov 9, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind Stephen Jackson

He’s ridiculously skilled, and I think his reputation as a bad apple comes more from his appearance and swagger than anything he’s actually done. He’s won a championship, starred on some pretty good teams, and he’s capable of playing everything from point guard to power forward. We could do worse with a 6th man.

by YaoPau on Nov 9, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His reputation

comes from what he says and does. Please don’t like this is all a media creation.

Surely you didn’t forget him going into the stands during the Pistons brawl. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1875149266123369069#

Or the incident when he fired 5 gunshots into the air, that was the last straw for Indiana?

Or his recent trouble with Golden State? From http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4636820

“As recently as October, Jackson was a Warriors captain. But during a preseason game against the Lakers, Jackson picked up five fouls and a technical in fewer than 10 minutes and was pulled from the game. He had a testy exchange with Nelson on the floor and was sent to the locker room. He was then stripped of his captaincy.”

Or him trying to sabotage his current team to force a trade. From http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_091109.html

“…And everyone knows Stephen Jackson wants to be traded and they want to trade him. Jackson was fined for saying so, and he’s no dummy. So now he’s just sabotaging the team by refusing to pass the ball when guys are open under the basket and he’s driving through double teams. The Contra Costa newspapers identified at least three times in a recent game when Jackson ignored teammates open at the basket to shoot threes or in traffic. It’s led, not surprisingly, to a similar shot selection plan throughout the team…

And there were these classic comments from Jackson to Contra Costa after being blown out by the Clippers at home, which management had to love: “Getting your (butt) whupped… I’m going to leave it up to the coaches. I’m not going to stress myself out over this. You know what I mean? I’m not. Just got to go out there and do my job and do my work out there. I’m not going to get beat up by it.”

by runningman on Nov 9, 2009 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

there's no question Jackson is handling this situation horribly

But i really don’t see him coming over to the bulls and pulling the same stunts. I think he will honestly be happy enough just being out of Golden State to give effort to whatever team he goes to.

I think a lot of people will be surprised at the impact he’ll have on whatever team he goes to.

by jpm356 on Nov 9, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right

Is Jackson the next NBA Cares award winner? Unlikely.
Is he the next Ron Artest or Terrell Owens? Unlikely.

He’s highly emotional, probably immature, but he’s not crazy, and he’s not an egomaniac. He fired gunshots into the air in self-defense after he got beat up at a club. He went into the stands after a fan punched Artest, and Jackson went after that fan.

by YaoPau on Nov 10, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If we let Hinrich go at this point, there's going to be some ugly ugly basketball being played at the UC.

I was a proponent of trading him last year, but with BG gone and no real alternatives behind the 1 or 2 spots, we really need Kirk right now.

by smash! on Nov 9, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately I have to agree

Unless we get a good SG in a trade for Hinrich, we will see a lot of Pargo until the end of the year. And we all know what that means…
But I like the idea of shipping Tyrus for Randolph. At least the Bulls wouldn’t lose Tyrus for nothing, like BG, and get a promising guy who could start immediately

Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0

by bull83 on Nov 9, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd probably do a Tyrus

for Randolph swap. Otherwise, Tyrus will be gone with nothing to show for it. This way the Bulls get another project that’s cheaper and under control for more years.

by runningman on Nov 9, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If we can’t develop Tyrus, are we going to be able to develop Randolph. Randolph can be a superstar. A 7 footer with a SG’s handles and PF’s ability to rebound and block shots. His ceiling is slightly under what Garnett became. He’s going to need a lot of work so he shouldn’t come here.

I don’t dislike Jackson as much as I dislike the contract. He’s not that bad, he is tired of playing for a team that doesn’t want to even try to win. That would piss anyone off also playing for a coach that is more interested in gimmickry and playing mind games than actually coaching. That would make one become a bad apple too.

by C Smoove on Nov 9, 2009 3:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I would do this in a heartbeat.

Randolph’s size, athleticism and range woudl be a perfect complement to Rose.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Nov 9, 2009 5:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

And a word on Jackson's contract:

as bad as it is, he makes less than Kirk. And we sorta have this Rose guy at the position than Kirk plays well.

I don’t know about the character concerns.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Nov 9, 2009 5:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The fight and gunshots happened how many years ago? 4-5 years ago… He has no other off the court incidents since. I think he spoke up about how Warriors front office sucks(they do) and told the truth…he could be actually more professionally but I honestly don’t see him a guy that’s going to kill the locker room.

by C Smoove on Nov 9, 2009 8:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

There's one guy on the Warriors who I want to trade for:

Kelenna Azubuike. Really good athlete, can score in bunches, solid defensively, and probably wouldn’t cost all that much to get. He’s signed through next year, at nearly 3.5 million for 2010-2011. He’d give us a great bang for the buck and would be a nice guy to bring in along with the big time FA we all hope is brought in. I’ve been a really big fan of this guys for a while and I’d love to see him here in Chicago.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

by dakoose on Nov 10, 2009 12:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I like Azubuike. He is a younger version of Salmons. A hybrid 2/3 who can score…Azubuike is also a better rebounder and defender. And could be had for 5 mill.

by C Smoove on Nov 10, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's significantly more athletic than Salmons.

He’s also a better shooter, per his percentages, and appears to be a better man to man defender. He’d be an interesting starter at the two when Salmons hopefully leaves.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

by dakoose on Nov 10, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The trade for Randolph would be awesome

He Rose and Noah could take us into the next 10 years with a great look.

Homecoming

by illwill on Nov 10, 2009 12:55 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I want Randolph bad...and Nellie hates him.

If the Bulls front office was competent they would be seeing what they could do to get this guy since they have given up on the Tyrus project.

Yes, I would do Salmons and Ty for Randolph and Jackson.

Can you imagine the problems VDN would have trying to coach Jackson though lol. I want it to happen just to make Vinny’’s life harder.

by i_like_turtles on Nov 10, 2009 8:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Historically our office doesn’t make early season trades, correct?

I mean look how long we lamented them for last year until they finally made the move with the Kings… it was clear early last season that Noc, Gooden, Hughes, etc. were not working out, but we made that move in February if I remember correctly.

I wouldn’t expect much all season, but if they do make a trade I’m guessing it will be closer to the deadline. Stephen Jackson doesn’t strike me as the Bull’s front office’s type of guy, and barring a clear winning trade (from the org point of view, not our’s) I don’t think they make a move this early in the season, especially if they continue to win more than they lose in this tough early schedule.

by RyPac13 on Nov 10, 2009 1:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I really don't think they deal Randolph just to rid themselves of Jackson

Randolph will be in the league longer than Don Nelson. It sucks now for them but it doesn’t mean you throw Randolph away.

Maybe you can get Brandon Wright instead.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 10, 2009 2:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You're right. God, not even the Bulls throw away their players the coaches hate.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Nov 10, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The other problem with this idea is that we need to give them three-point shooters

Who do we have that shoots the 3? I mean, we’re shooting, what, 16% as a team? Worse now?

I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.

by Prevenge on Nov 11, 2009 11:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs


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