Bulls 93, Bobcats 90
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 8, 2009 5:57 PM CST
69 comments
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Charlotte | 90.0 | 100.0 | 46.5% | 11.6 | 35.6 | 18.9 |
| Chicago | 103.3 | 52.6% | 17.1 | 40.5 | 23.3 |
(abbreviated recap, other stuff got in the way)
Bulls took care of business on Saturday, a home game against a fairly cruddy Bobcats team that played the night before.
My initial reaction to the Tyrus injury in terms of how it would effect this team this season (the Org.-fail aspects of it have been repeated enough) is that Vinny would get more creative with the lineups and that could spell disaster. But the entire genesis of Tyrus' bad week was Vinny sitting him in 4th quarters anyway, and for the most part VDN's very comfortable putting Deng at PF with one true big man in the lineup at one time. Not saying that's a correct way to go, just that it may be sustainable to lose Tyrus since Vinny was marginalizing him anyway. (silver lining!)
It certainly didn't hurt them against the Bobcats, who despite actually having a deep group of legit centers (that's a trademarked term, I believe) didn't bother playing them much and it allowed the Bulls to even get James Johnson some time at the 4, considering the opposing 4 was Vlad Radmanovic. The 'Cats even had Radman with Boris Diaw as a frontcourt, and that may be the only worse big-man tandem than the Noc-Gooden of the Bozo Boylan clown show.
As seen by the four factors box, neither teams secured defensive rebounds well, partly due to the lack of 'truer' big men in the game, and also with both teams featuring the best in the league in Noah and ex-Bull (and former favorite Bull of mine, actually) Tyson Chandler.
And maybe it was the lack of Tyrus or opposing bigs that had VDN finally unleash Joakim Noah for 40 minutes, and he certainly delivered with 21 and 16. Noah rules. The Bulls made their big 2nd half push with Noah and Miller on the floor together, something VDN doesn't seem to like doing often
The first half was likely John Salmons best half of the season, and he even had a catch/shoot 3, which I didn't think he ever did. Salmons and Hinrich were each 2-4 from three, though it was the Bobcats doing far more launching, and their 12 three-pointers kept them in the game likely longer than they should've been.
Personal highlight of seeing this one was the WGN feed screwing up to where you could barely hear the commentary.
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Noah
was everywhere, literally.
Brad Miller’s behind the back pass to him for the dunk was probably the highlight of the season thus far for us.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
by Cosmis on Nov 8, 2009 6:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Man, while I love me some Noah
I do recommend either (1) understanding what literally means or (2) explaining how it is physically possible for Noah to have literally been everywhere. Because that would be awesome.
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
by Jivas on Nov 8, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Have you read John Hodgman's second book of almost true literary facts?
3 or 4 times in there he says
“Literally.*
- - Not literally."
Oh, common english as compared to proper english.
What’s that word that makes negative sense when it starts with ‘ir’? I love that word.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
by Prevenge on Nov 8, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
IRREGARDLESS!
without (not) being in regard. In other words, regard!
by NittanyCub on Nov 9, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There you go!
Thanks. I’d forgotten it in the spur of the moment. I was like ‘I know it’s an r word … irrational? … No … damn.’
Anyways.
Yeah.
I love the word irregardless, and I try to use it whenever I can, because it’s awesome.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
by Prevenge on Nov 9, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whenever someone argues that 'irregardless' is a word
respond by telling them what high irregard you have for them
by torch on Nov 9, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to parse this too finely
but he did not say “was everywhere simultaneously, literally”. Thus, it is technically and physically possible to be everywhere sequentially, or perhaps spiritually, without being in two or more physical places at the same time. Although depending on your religious beliefs, it is possible that you believe that spiritually and literally hold mutually exclusive meanings. I saw the game, too, and I thought Noah was one busy motherfucker. Not literally.
by Cannoli on Nov 9, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I was using 'literally'
un-literally. Of course he wasn’t actually everywhere. Just using the word out of it’s proper context to expound upon my love for the game that he played. If anyone COULD have been everywhere, it would have been him.
Because Noah is both the Alpha and the Omega. He is one and all. If I were a Jungian, I would contend that since Noah is a part of the Collective Unconscious, then he actually was everywhere at once, but for some reason this doesn’t seem the apporpriate arena for that conversation…
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
by Cosmis on Nov 9, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would make the most sense
to say that Noah was literally everywhere in a basketball sense. He was about as active as one can be in this beautiful game. Would that be a fair compromise?
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
by Cosmis on Nov 9, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just having a little fun. :)
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
by Jivas on Nov 10, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize you didn't mention Rose...
and if the sentiment is that his injury makes talk of him irrelevant, I primarily agree. With that said, I think it is worth suggesting that Hinrich starts until he gets completely healthy.
by Super-Structure on Nov 8, 2009 6:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You are right. The bulls should make a completely worthless panic move
Hinrich is averaging 9pts and 4 assist per game while shooting 36% from the field and 25% from 3 in 30 minutes per game. Lets mess with our Rookie of Year guard to ensure we get 5 extra minutes of play for our backup point guard with a PER of 9.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 8, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not worthless if his injury prevents him from being effective
He’s limping and grimacing every dead ball. I don’t want to see that. What makes Rose great is his ability to get to the hoop. Take that away and he’s a mediocre jumpshooter and passer who doesn’t defend. Pargo sucks, but he can give us what Rose has given so far. If he’s not 100%, I’d rather he rests until he is.
by YaoPau on Nov 8, 2009 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow couldn’t said it better myself!
by bears rock on Nov 8, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't have* :)
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Nov 8, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
if you are going to sit him, that is one thing
but as along as he is healthy enough to play he is healthy enough to start
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 8, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the 5 man lineups and see which have the roughest time--
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910CHI2.HTM
Also, it would be nice if Rose could take it easy (and energized) against some second units, where he could get back into the groove of driving and maybe get some calls.
by Super-Structure on Nov 8, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't matter if Hinrich is playing a little better
He is not playing well enough to supplant a cornerstone of the franchise. So I don’t care if the 5 man unit with Hinrich plays slightly better than the 5 man unit with Rose. Rose is a cornerstone. We already know what Hinrich can do. That is why he is sitting on the bench
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 8, 2009 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think using some ease in working him back in...
endangers his growth as a player. I am not sure exactly what Rose is a cornerstone means in this discussion.
by Super-Structure on Nov 8, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They've already started him 6 games this season
its too late to ease him back into the rotation. When do you ease him back into starting? Its not hurting the team win/loss wise – why screw with it? We are just a game removed from Rose having his best game of the season (Cleveland). Now isn’t the time to panic about his recovery. He hasn’t looked himself yet, but he has still had 3 okay games (Cleveland/SA/Mil) and 3 bad games (Cha/Boston/Miami).
How is playing him 30 minutes off the bench, as opposed to the 30 minutes he is playing as a starter, going to do him or anyone else any good? I rather VDN not screw with the rotation and let Rose work it out on the court.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 8, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, you are probably correct.
I just thought your argument was about his symbolic value.
by Super-Structure on Nov 8, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Derrick's play as of late appears to be more mental than a physical/injury type issue
Him having pain isn’t causing the turnovers. Derrick appears to have worked on the mid range shot and even appears slightly better than last year. I think he’s lost confidence in his game. I don’t know if something happened in the summer games, or from his playoff matchup vs Rondo, but his problems are mental. I don’t know if the facial expressions are pain or being upset at his bad play. Pro athletes play with injuries all the time, so this excuse can only be for so long. I’d say the bottom line is Rose is gonna have to toughen up, play within himself, and relax.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 8, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He can't get to the rim
I can count on one hand the number of penetrations he’s had that have led to easy layups. Those happened routinely last year.
by YaoPau on Nov 8, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rose can get to the rim
I saw Rose against the Bobcats outrun Felton while Rose had the ball and go coast to coast and score. The man’s pain may have him at 80 percent, but a 80perrcent Derrick Rose is more athletic still than most point guards in the league. His problems are he’s not mentally focused, again the injury isn’t causing his bad passes and ball handling.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 9, 2009 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well if you're going to give me one instance as proof
Then Hinrich can get to the rim at will too! I’ve seen him do it twice this year!
I don’t think mental focus is causing him to take jumpshots instead of driving to the rim.
by YaoPau on Nov 9, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a physical issue.
He looks like the Rose of old for 3-4 minute spurts, and relies on the midrange jumper for most of the game. And most of those drives are on a fast break. He’s rarely beating people off the dribble. Last season Rose didn’t even need a good screen to get to the hoop.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 9, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Teams play him to penetrate, so he's got guys giving him the jumper
He’s forced the issue and has had blocked shots, turnovers, or contested layups, so he takes what he given which is the mid range jumper.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 9, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Rose does a pick and roll teams plau under the pick, meaning they go towards the rim
as opposed to chasing him around the picking player. So they give him the jumper. Teams know he’s explosive and they play him like this, and again, even if he’s a little slower that doesn’t mean he should be getting these bad turnovers he get’s. Players play with bad ankles, or knees, or whatever much of there career. Rose is gonna have to learn to deal with it.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 9, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So whats your solution?
That Rose should keep shooting his mediocre jumpshot? Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Dwyane Wade, Devin Harris – they’ve all made careers out of getting to the rim, regardless of how defenses played them.
If Rose was a mid-first round pick, I’d be okay with defenses dictating his play. He was the #1 pick, and a pretty good one. It shouldn’t be this easy to force him out of his game.
by YaoPau on Nov 9, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All of these guys are great at attacking the rim
But when they realises teams give them the jumper they had to start making them, and every one of these with the exception of Harris, I know has increased there shooting skill. Parker lit up Cleveland for the last title, Wade is a better all around scorer because the jumper, and Rondo made aname for himself thew last two years including the championship season. Rose has to hit the mid range shot, then he’ll be able to attack the rim again.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 9, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say relax
Rose will be fine.
Parker took a few years to figure everything out and he plays with Duncan no less.
Rondo plays with I don’t know I guess guys like Garnett, Pierce and Ray Allen (not to mention now Wallace, et all) and it’s not like Rondo’s this big offensive force out there….the talent around him helps him quite a bit, though he’s gotten very good at finding out ways to be more than effective with it. Put him next to Taj and Noah on O and let’s see if you see the same results….(add in if Rondo’s hobbling and what 3 years younger and having not learned by the 3 hall of famers beside him (and 4th guy-Wallace with that kind of talent level)….
It’s what Devin Harris’s 6th year? in the league? He wasn’t the big scoring guy until he had to be the scorer on his team…
And there’s only 1 maybe 3 D. Wade level talents in this league (Wade, Kobe, Lebron)….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I’m arguing that Rose is hurt, and that’s why he can’t get to the rim. I think Rose will turn out to be pretty damn good, but being hobbled is being hobbled.
by YaoPau on Nov 9, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I jumped in a bit I guess. My bad (speaking out of turn :) ).
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a bit early
of a sample size yet for this to really be meaningful….but I agree with the thought about giving Rose a break a bit….even if the last 2 games he’s shown a bit more life.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you watched Hinrich's D?
O stats are irrelevant right now….and Kirk’s getting better there after a slow funk….Hinrich on D has been incredible so far this year….
I’d take Rose over Kirk typically but we need Rose to get healthy, and while we have Kirk (The expensive luxury he is) let’s use that luxury to rest our future superstar and not risk further injury.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Rose is starting
Then I’m going to assume that he has clearance from doctors that he won’t make it worse by playing on it.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 8, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather see him rest.
It sucks that the public doesn’t know the severity of the injury
by NittanyCub on Nov 8, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he didn't re-aggravate anything, did he?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 8, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rose played solid
just made dumb decisions
"I think it’s safe to say Noah and Rose are the future."
by Belize on Nov 8, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He just needs time
He’ll get better. Take away Ben Gordon and the guard play really changes. Our Guards were our best early PER performers last year. Gordon’s early ast% was a career high. I think he was getting over 26% there.
With Salmons early shooting struggles Rose can’t get his ast% up. They’ll get better.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 9, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that kid has alot of pressure this year
"I think it’s safe to say Noah and Rose are the future."
by Belize on Nov 9, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rose doesn’t seem right he is hesitant and not playing 100% you can tell…….
by bears rock on Nov 8, 2009 6:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Chandler
and ex-Bull (and former favorite Bull of mine, actually) Tyson Chandler.
Chandler’s hand are small, like he’s catching the ball with salad tongs.
by Noe_Valley on Nov 8, 2009 8:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What the heck is wrong with this ladies extremities ^
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 8, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Taj?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 9, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
noah rules indeed
"I think it’s safe to say Noah and Rose are the future."
by Belize on Nov 8, 2009 9:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Taj Gibson group on facebook
wow, whats next
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=169618883364&ref=ts
by knickknack7450 on Nov 8, 2009 10:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Holy shit
That is messed up.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 8, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Taj Gibson for the All-Star Game!!!!!!
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
by Prevenge on Nov 8, 2009 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DeJuan Blair.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
by Prevenge on Nov 9, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good game, but we better watch out
What Sam Smith said in his blog is true: we won’t go very far with the team starter all playing above 40 minutes a game right from game 6.
And what about Rose? I am wondering if all those off season ‘scandals’ got to him and limit his practice.
by JustAnotherFan on Nov 9, 2009 7:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
we're not going far anyway!
I applaud Vinny for keeping rotations tight and the good players on the floor. It’s not his fault the Org. had to skimp on the deep bench.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 9, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
(Yes, I'm praising Vinny)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 9, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Give him time...
I mean heck Taj played more than Tyrus through the first 5 games and got more burn than Noah (who’s on a career tear to start the year) in at least the game before that.
I actually think Vinny’s gotten our D better and think he does call a few interesting plays (the few times he calls them) but I hate his on the game player rotation mgmt….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with that to an extent
but playing deng 47 minutes saturday night was ridiculous. im fine with a tight rotation and playing our best players 35-40 minutes a night, but nobody should be playing 47 minutes.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
by Calogero on Nov 9, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
though he could kinda get away with it on sat just cause the guys had 2 days off in between
i mean it’s embarassing that he had to play 47 minutes against the bobcats and we still barely won…
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 9, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the biggest thing im actually looking for in minutes distribution is noah
with tyrus out, there’s no reason noah shouldnt be getting 40 mins a night. he’s young, looks to be in shape, is playing great, and has no history of injuries. give him 40 mins every night (unless he’s in foul trouble) and split the other 56 front court mins between taj/miller, with possibly a few minutes of deng at the 4.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
by Calogero on Nov 9, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed there
but he did get 40 min against the bobcats also.
i think what needed to happen was JJ needed to get some minutes in the 2nd half. i know he looked awful in the 1st half, but salmons, deng, and noah all played practically the entire 2nd half. vinny can’t be doing that to them every night.
i know taj may get more minutes too since he was in foul trouble a bit.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 9, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know Deng's had injuries, etc
But why can’t he play at least 38-40 MPG? He’s what 25. Make him earn his keep.
Salmons’s minutes will go down as Rose gets healthy.
Noah’s 25 too.
We should run with ’em.
Johnson looked a ways away from being ready….a shame…though one game, who knows.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he can play 38
he can’t play 47 :/
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 9, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray
for our pythagorean 2-4 record!
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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