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Around SBN: Post-UNC Thoughts

I'm Happy to Have a Break From Tyrus. He's gone anyways.

First and foremost it is in the Bulls' best interest to win this year. I know that statement is painfully obvious, but that includes winning over developing talent. They need to win as much as possible and get as deep as possible in the playoffs to show off their team for potential free agents. I'm on board with any way they can achieve this while simultaneously keeping cap space for 2010. That includes being happy with Taj Gibson being in the lineup while Tyrus Thomas sits. As long as Tyrus continues to put himself before the team he is compromising the Bulls' ability to win games. And in my opinion Tyrus has clearly been looking out only for himself. The Bulls need all hands on deck.

Remember going into the summer of 2000 the Bulls had Artest, the ROTY Brand, & 2 lottery picks, yet McGrady & Hill still went to Orlando. Why? Orlando went 41-41 while the Bulls went 17-65. It didn't matter that their best player was Darrell Armstrong (Don't believe me? Click Here) . The reason they went to Orlando was that the Magic had proven that they have the ability to win. Don't you think that if the Bulls could do it over they wouldn't have dealt Kukoc? I'm talking about this separate from the fact that the 2000 draft sucked. Just purely from the standpoint of marketing the team to free agents. We would have won more games if he stayed. But I digress...

And I think we, both the fans and the organization, have learned the lesson of the summer of 2000. To free-agents it doesn't matter "what could be" with teams. It matters what is. I don't care if Taj Gibson's career ceiling is a PJ Brown-type. Even if that Brown-type is one minus the leadership elements and maybe some important intangibles. As long as Taj keeps hitting at least 40% of his 12-15 footers and worries more about staying in front of his man than getting the show-stopping block I want him to be the one playing over Tyrus. Period. The Bulls have a better chance of winning that way.

Obviously losing Tyrus to injury isn't great from a personnel standpoint. I'm not happy about that. Having him healthy, with this current roster, is better than having him hurt. At the worst he is another big body. And he does have the ability to present certain threats that no one else on the team possesses by virtue of his combination of size and athleticism. But I feel like every single other player on this team is on the same page, right down to James Johnson (who has gotten 0 meaningful minutes). They all seem to be putting winning above everything else. Maybe if Tyrus is separated from that situation, through his injury, he can gain some perspective and realize how different his current mindset is from the rest of the team. Maybe he will buy into the team first thing. But I think that's being overly optimistic. I haven't seen that version of Tyrus since his rookie year. And even then I may have just been blinded by his potential when he was a game changer off the bench with his athleticism and dazzling highlight dunks. Even then it was probably just him showing off his athleticism rather than realizing the general benefit it was providing the team.

The Bulls have a unique advantage in free agency: the draw of the opportunity to play with a budding unselfish point guard. Who, by the way, most think will be a superstar. No other team with cap-room has that. If they show the ability to win on top of that, the Bulls will have stacked the deck in their favor for 2010 free agency. Someone will come here. It may not be 'Bron, Wade, or Bosh. But whoever it is, they will be better going forward than Tyrus. Even if it's Rudy Gay or Joe Johnson.

Management made their bed by not re-signing Gordon. They essentially decided "we are not going to win a title with Ben Gordon nor will we have any cap-space to improve our team moving forward". It was a bold move, but the right one. Not that we don't all miss Ben's scoring, but by tying up all of their cap-space in Ben the Bulls would be signing up for mediocrity. If mediocrity eventually comes the Bulls' way in the form of tying up cap space with Rudy Gay, then so be it. Nothing will be lost in the difference between Gay and Gordon. Thomas' tenure with the Bulls will have been the casualty. And like it or not it is over. If the Bulls even want to attempt to lure free agents to Chicago they will have to renounce his rights to clear up the cap space. That means that even if the Bulls can't convince any of the big guns to sign with them, they still can't fall back on matching whatever offer sheet Tyrus may get. And it's not going to be abundantly clear whether or not any of them will sign before it happens. Because if the Bulls have the cap space they'll all visit ('Bron, Wade, Bosh etc.). None of them would pass up the chance to be worshipped by each city as they visit. To grab all of the sports headlines for a month across the country. To be wined and dined. Their agents won't let them. And they'll either use us to get what they really want or be legitimately interested. The only way the Bulls will get that opportunity, barring a miraculous trade, is by renouncing Tyrus.

The worst case scenario is that Tyrus signs a 3 year 25 million dollar deal with OKC and becomes another brilliant move-notch on Sam Presti's belt, while the Bulls get spurned by everyone. (And move-notch is a word in this context.) As long as the Bulls show me that their plan is to win as many games above all else, they will have done the best that they could have to increase the odds in their favor. The season will have been a success. It's like when I'm playing blackjack: If The dealer is showing a 10, I will feel better when I lose after the person to the right of me hits on 16, than I will when I win & he/she stayed. We played the odds, and in the long run if we continue to play like that there will be more good outcomes than bad ones. The intangible factor of luck will come as it may.

That being said: it better work. That's the only caveat.

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Umm….championship teams develop their young talent as well as getting big FAs….the Spurs are the main example. You can’t always bank on getting a big FA….that worked out real well last time right…..

A team isn’t going to be successful until they learn to develop their draft picks, something we have never done. Kirk, Loul, Ben, D Rose….none of those guys got any better due to the Bulls organization teaching them anything.

Also I’m not happy with a foul happy rookie playing 25-30 minutes a game, a rookie whose backup is another foulprone, not ready rookie. That is not a good thing.

I see Tyrus is the new scapegoat now that Gordon is gone.

by C Smoove on Nov 7, 2009 2:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ehhh, I dunno if the development was the problem with Ben, Luol and Kirk.

Rather, they all were low(er) ceiling draft picks who maximized their ability. None of them could have been superstars, no matter who was at the helm. Pax drafted more surefire, low-ceiling guys rather than high ceiling, higher risk guys like Tyrus. I’ve been disappointed with Derrick’s development, but he’s only five games into year two. Tyrus is the only really egregious development mistake on this roster, IMO.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

by dakoose on Nov 7, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen"
~ Michael Jordan

by ChiBullsFan on Nov 11, 2009 6:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he will buy into the team first thing. But I think that’s being overly optimistic. I haven’t seen that version of Tyrus since his rookie year. And even then I may have just been blinded by his potential when he was a game changer off the bench with his athleticism and dazzling highlight dunks. Even then it was probably just him showing off his athleticism rather than realizing the general benefit it was providing the team.

ever consider that now you’re blinded by propaganda?

the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS

by marionette on Nov 7, 2009 2:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yes. And I’m buying into it. Like I said, barring a miraculous trade he’s gone. But Vinny is the coach, for now, and the way he’s using him isn’t effective. And if Taj keeps doing those things that Tyrus won’t I want Taj playing. If Tyrus wants to re-embrace his previous role as a change of pace big off the bench that’s how he can be most effective for this team. His learning curve is still so big because he has learned so slowly. I don’t know if that’s management’s fault or his fault. But there obviously won’t be a midseason overhaul in the player development staff. And him being away from the team can only help him mentally. He needs perspective, even if he doesn’t realize he’s getting it. If it doesn’t work out when he comes back, and he blossoms elsewhere, then I’ll be happy for him, but this is the way it has to be.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what did he do again that was so anti-team?

"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."

by TheMoon on Nov 7, 2009 2:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Some people really believe that there's an abundance of players in this league

who really are all about winning, even if it costs that player playing time. News flash, the only guys like that are the older players past their prime that can only contribute in spurts. There are no young players in the NBA who after their best year and at the age of 23, would be happy seeing their minutes drop to 21 from 27.5. Those guys don’t exists. Every young player wants playing time.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

by dakoose on Nov 7, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He hasn’t accepted his role. He is not in there to shoot jumpers. He’s in there to protect the rim on defense and find the open lanes to the basket when Derrick penetrates.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's common knowledge that Vinny tells him to take jumpers.

Doing what your coach tells you is the definition of accepting your role. The problem here is that Vinny and chibullsareback want Tyrus to do different things. I wonder who he’ll listen to?

by penguin1 on Nov 7, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If the team is better off with Taj

and Tyrus is so selfish, how do you explain Tyrus have the best DRtg on the team? And why is it ok for Taj to shoot jumpers and not TT? (you do know they have the same FG%, right?)

Also, how do you have any idea what Johnson’s mindset is?

This is just uninformed garbage.

by JeffD on Nov 7, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m going off body language. I obviously don’t know James Johnson’s mindset. He looks like a rookie eager to prove instead of rookie bummed to be benched. At least he’s not making public comments complaining about “not starting” a preseason game where he was coming off of an injury. And one’s defensive rating will look great when you’re guarding Bonner, Beasley, & Hickson. And he was terrible against Boston.

Also, you’re right Tyrus is in there to take jumpshots (not being sarcastic). He just takes too many. And Taj hits 47% of his jumpers btw. It’s a real small sample, but it’s better than the 35% Tyrus made last season or the 40% after his alleged improvement.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So this is all based off your perception of body language?

That is ridiculous. Wasn’t Taj guarding those same guys? So why isn’t his DRtg as good as TT? And why are TT’s on/off stats so much better?

by JeffD on Nov 7, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

James Johnson’s body language.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus Thomas’ comments

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

DRose has had some poor body language this year as well.

Hunter has been a fun and stand up guy, I think he gives us a better chance of winning!

Seriously though, Tyrus is better than Taj. Tyrus hasn’t been taking as many jumpers this year either (even though as somebody correctly pointed out, VDN has told him to take jumpers within the flow of the offense). He has been improving since last season and he is definitely a cut above Taj.

Yes, he has had some issues with VDN, but it doesn’t seem like anything that is destroying or damaging our team.

Part of a coach’s job is to manage the players. These are young guys with millions of dollars. Even CP3 has had issues with Byron Scott. Josh Smith once demanded that his coach had to be fired before he got an extension. Both situation were resolved. There have been numerous other coach and player issues around the league previously, most of them are handled and most never get into the media too deeply.

So far there is no indication that Tyrus/VDN problems are anything other than some minor issues. Tyrus has still been playing hard when he’s out there and he hasn’t missed any practices or games or been fined/penalized for any of his actions as far as we know.

I think people are just reading way too deeply into this Tyrus stuff right now. Bottom line is that he helps us when he’s out there and he’s better than Taj Gibson. I want him back right now, and like any other player, if you can trade him for a player (or players) that improves our team, then go for it.

by RyPac13 on Nov 8, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"I’m going off body language. "

aw man, and I just wrote that complimentary comment :(

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

as a starting PF he absolutely is in there to make 15 ft shots, among other things.

one thing that makes good defenses good is they disrupt that which you are best at. this is why even though i would love it if tyrus did nothing but attack the rim and draw fouls, the reality is he has to take 15 footers, especially against good teams, even if his efg% on those shots is .41. conversely, taj probably needs to continue to attack the rim when he can even though his efg% on close shots is .40. (yes, its weird, but tyrus is more efficient at 15 ft than taj is from 3 ft.)

"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."

by TheMoon on Nov 7, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No one would ever accuse Gibson of being a better inside player than Thomas. He’s not a better player than Thomas. But he’s the better player for what the Bulls need. He can hit that midrange shot. And teams are going to leave him open.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

see, this is a fantasy. the bulls do not need a guy who can score 10.5 pts on 9.5 shots,

however it is that that player goes about it. the bulls need efficiency in scoring. and since tyrus is more efficient than taj, the bulls need tyrus.

"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."

by TheMoon on Nov 7, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

say that again I have no idea what you are arguing. I said that Taj hits 47% of his jumpers. Tyrus hits 40%. How is Tyrus more efficient for what the Bulls needs. Tyrus gambles a lot on defense whereas Taj plays it safe.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i said the bulls need efficiency in scoring. tyrus is a more efficient scorer.

he could do things to be more efficient than he is, but hes still a more efficient overall scorer than taj. thus the bulls need him, on offense. also, good defensive teams grab a lot of defensive rebounds. the bulls need taj to do this, but he does not. again, tyrus could be better, and i wish he was, but whats important now is that hes better than taj at this. he has lots of flaws, but hes still the bulls best option at PF.

"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."

by TheMoon on Nov 7, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we will miss him, just not in crunch time

I want Tyrus as a change of pace player. Taj is slow and methodical, doesn’t take a lot of risks, and then a substitution happens and here comes Tyrus a completely different type of player. Kind of like a Chris Anderson role. But better because he has more talent. But when the game is on the line I don’t want Tyrus to be deciding it. I don’t want Taj to decide it either. I want our power forward to just stand there and take jumpers, and not get beat defensively because of some gamble where the risk outweighs the reward.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what you are talking about is taj as a a kurt thomas, mcdyess, pj brown type

player. notice how those players are only effective when they can play in lineups with (duncan, parker, ginobli), (nash, marion, stoudamire) or (allen, pierce, garnett). in short, those guys need a lot of offensive firepower to help them out. the bulls dont have that, and they really cant afford to waste a position by filling it with an ineffectual offensive player. they just dont have the guns to do this.

"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."

by TheMoon on Nov 7, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you are right, but defense never hurt anyone. and when Tyrus does come back I would prefer to see the lineup take that shape. The one with Tyrus coming off the bench.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're forgetting the part where Tyrus has played better defense

than Taj all year so far this year. Especially when you factor in defensive rebounding to defense. Tyrus pwns Taj, especially in rebounding.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he's not that enforcer type anyway

he’s too small to ever be that type, IMO.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I guess you're exposing yourself who just doesn't see Thomas as ever being great

I think the Bulls seem to LOVE players who’ll never be great, since they can be ‘consistent’.

But if your goal (and the team’s) is just to be .500 anyway, I don’t see how Thomas hurts that, and you keep the potential for asking your players to be more than don’t screw up. Though I still don’t agree with the overall concept that’s it’s better to be worse at basketball as long as you can expect that worse play and not any wacky surprises like good play.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Thomas off the bench better in a birdman role. I think he can be an enforcer. Birdman looks taller because of that stupid hair, Ben Wallace too. Thomas just needs to grow a big afro and get a tattoo on his face or something.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

confirmed. you ARE a dumb.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you are very insecure

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my point is that with the enforcer role comes posturing. I was throwing out some possible suggestions for Tyrus to successfully pull this off.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus told Rip Hamilton that only pussies where masks during that game they both got thrown out of a couple of years back. He’s got some badass in him

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

crunch time!

hello Game 1 overtime of superduperepicroundoneplayoffseries!!!

I mean, you didn’t exist, mister crunch time.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Nov 8, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that’s what the coaching staff wants him to do and I don’t think Tyrus is willing to do that

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They don't need the starting PF to shoot jumpers

They need him to attack the hoop, and Tyrus is better at that.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Nov 7, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls should trade Tyrus as soon as he comes back

I like Tyrus. I think the Bulls should have offered him a contract (because he may have signed cheap and it would have made him easier to trade). But the signs are pretty strong that Tyrus is done in Chicago. It sucks that he got hurt and this drama has to play out for longer. What chance does he have regaining his starting spot 6 weeks from now? VDN will have every excuse not to play him. I say trade Tyrus, and improve the team.

One trade I’ve been thinking of is one where you send out Tyrus for veteran shooters. People to play on the 2nd unit and space the floor. In that vein, I like this trade -

Bulls trade Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James to Golden State
Warriors trade Stephen Jackson to San Antonio and Azubuike and Claxton to Chicago
San Antonio trades Bonner to Chicago and Mason to Golden State

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ylntdfe

San Antonio gets a veteran wing shooter/defender to replace the suck that is Finley. The Warriors get rid of Jackson for a young prospect in Tyrus and shed long term contracts. And the Bulls get the 3pt shooters the team desperately needs while taking on no long term contracts.

Rose/Hinrich
Salmons/Hinrich/Pargo
Deng/Azubuike/JJ
Taj/Bonner/Noah
Noah/Miller

Bonner and Azubuike can defend, so there won’t be this huge chasm. And we can really help out Rose, Salmons and Deng by adding some people who can shoot the 3.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 7, 2009 2:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

yeah

I should of said, starter minutes. If he’s limited to under 20 then I guess it’s possible for us to take the last spot. Although with how much Noah has improved who knows.

by diedaily23 on Nov 8, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Has he been limited under 20 yet?

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Nov 8, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He got 19 last night

But he fouled his way to it.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Nov 8, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually think that trade's pretty great

Azubuike could be the “spark plug” off the bench our org played Pargo up to be.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 10, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, actually
The Bulls have a unique advantage in free agency: the draw of the opportunity to play with a budding unselfish point guard. Who, by the way, most think will be a superstar. No other team with cap-room has that.

This is false. Devin Harris plays for the Nets. He’s already an All-Star PG and he plays alongside one of, if not the, best young centers in the game (Brook Lopez). And the Nets have more capspace than the Bulls.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You totally missed my point about wins & Darrel Armstrong. Didn’t you?

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, I didn't. That part of your argument is separate from what you've said in the quoted paragraph.

Especially because you went on immediately to say:

If they show the ability to win on top of that, the Bulls will have stacked the deck in their favor for 2010 free agency.

So you’re conceding that the Bulls might not show the ability to win (by your use of ’if they…"). Which means that the prior statements about the superstar PG were independent of their ability to win. And that contention is demonstrably false. See: my above argument.

Also, you think Taj is better than Tyrus, despite every single shred of evidence indicating that to be false, which makes me think you’re probably a dumb.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

their ability to win paired with the presence of a potentially superstar pg. And I’d rather play with Rose than Harris (who has yet to show he can stay consistently healthy).

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Did you forget about Rose's nagging achilles injury? Or his knee tendinitis? Rose has more of

a consistent injury history thus far in his young career than Harris does. Harris has averaged 69 games a year, I don’t see how that shows him being some great injury risk.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually becoming increasingly worried about Rose's injuries

I’m afraid that he’s going to end up like Deng last year where we’re playing him through an injury and it only ends up getting worse until it reaches the point where his season’s over. I think he needs his rest now, we should have gotten him completely healthy before his season started.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 10, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and I said Tyrus is better than Taj. Not a better fit. The whole point was about accepting Tyrus as gone and why it is for the best. If you want to pick and choose isolated statements out of context that kind of defeats the purpose. You need to see the forest for the trees.

And you know it for a fact that everybody's eating out of your hands

by chibullsareback on Nov 7, 2009 4:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus and Taj are the same player, face-up jumpshooting big men who block shots

except Tyrus does everything better than Taj. He’s a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, blocks more shots, steals more balls, and is not a bald alien looking motherfucker.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I think one can accept Tyrus is gone

but still be pissed off about how the Bulls helped completely botch his career.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

(at least I know I can, and will!)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I fully expect Donny Walsh to offer TT money after he strikes out with LeBron and Wade

and for Tyrus to promptly put up 20 PER seasons like an Amare clone. And I will curse JR ’til the end of time.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I can't care too much about what he does with some other team

it’s what the Bulls wind up with instead. It’ll probably be underwhelming.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll just care because it'll be two guys the Bulls should have had together from the get-go

Mike D and Tyrus together would have been heavenly. But instead we got the Del Cheapo knockoff wannabe Mike D, because JR is a cheap asshole. He doesn’t even have the Pringles ’stache, for cripes sakes.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thinking about D'Antoni

makes me weep. Especially since our front court would be perfect for his system. Instead our current coach can’t even figure to play our best player(Noah) even 30 minute a game…

by diedaily23 on Nov 8, 2009 1:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I will never stop being pissed at JR about the D'Antoni thing.

That almost completely crushed my faith in the franschise. D-Rose, Tyrus and Noah (and Deng for that matter) are all perfect for Mike D’s system.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 10, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The thing that kills me is that he is still over a year younger than Taj

Well, I guess he will always be over a year younger than Taj. Man, Taj is old.

by JeffD on Nov 8, 2009 1:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but look at the poster is pointing out

It’s not about getting better but getting worse! As long as it’s a better fit…

by diedaily23 on Nov 8, 2009 1:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do applaud the resignation of losing Thomas for good

it sucks, but it was a likely outcome for this season, and this just cements it.

I also agree with you saying that being a .500 team this season is a big deal.

What I disagree with was that somehow Tyrus’ mindset was holding them back from achieving the most they could this season. They aren’t going to win because they’re happy with their ‘winning attitude’, it’ll be because of a talent advantage over the crappy teams in the league, and perhaps a hustle advantage over the better teams. I don’t think Tyrus was standing in that way, and I think Vinny sitting Tyrus in the 4th hurts the team more than Tyrus being upset about it.

Also, while it probably helped that Orlando didn’t look hopeless before Hill and McGrady signed, most of those guys were jettisoned when they did sign anyway. Plus they looked to sign there because NBA players like living in Orlando (and no state income tax), and Hill/McGrady likely saw that going together they could do damage.

And they don’t need to renounce Tyrus right away, not until the last second they actually need his cap space to sign a free agent. And these things usually go quick, I’m not sure there will be much wining/dining. Either way, if they do want to test the waters, nobody will not see Chicago because they have a cap hold on Tyrus Thomas. The only way it’s effected is if someone signs Tyrus to an offer sheet right away, putting the pressure on the Bulls to let him go. But the UFAs will be signed before someone throws money at Thomas, I think.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 4:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious as to how big of a contract you would've like to seen the Bulls give Tyrus

For him to stay he would have needed to get paid. Which also means no 2010 free agent and a front line of Tyrus and Noah for the foreseeable future. I kinda like Tyrus too, but I just don’t think locking him up based on what he’s produced so far in his career was a very logical choice.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 7, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls should have dealt their garbage contracts for expiring pieces sooner to make room for Tyrus.

Same deal as the issue with BG. They are poorly organized, and as a result, are going to lose more talented players for nothing.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You have to be more specific

What “garbage contracts” are you referring to? I don’t think trading Luol was ever a possibility. Now, if you were a proponent of signing BG and Tyrus, then waiting for a time to strike via trade and saying screw it to 2010, I can understand that, and I kinda agree. But there’s really no reason to sign Tyrus at this point.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 7, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess you're kind of right. There's no way they could have made the play for a 2010

free agent in the free agent market without letting go of either BG or Tyrus. I still think they should have dumped Kirk, so that they could have kept BG, but it was always going to be one of or both of Tyrus and BG being let go if they wanted to have max capspace for 2010. I guess I’m mostly irritated that it’s going to be both, when we have a 9 million dollar point guard backing up the franchise PG.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I also think they should have been more active in resigning those guys

just to use them as trade bait, because I’m willing to bet almost anything the Bulls totally strike out in the bigtime FA market and end up with someone worse than BG and Tyrus would be combined. Argh.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think we're going to end up with Joe Johnson

which isn’t as bad as Ron Mercer, but it’s certainly no Bosh/Wade/LeBron/Dirk. I’d be extrememly happy just to get a big guy like Amare or Bosh, because I think banking on Wade or LBJ is a little ridiculous at this point. Maybe if we had a great front office, but we don’t.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 10, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Signing Gordon and signing Thomas isn't saying "Screw 2010."

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Nov 8, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't want them to lock up Tyrus now

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not after they let BG go

clearly 2010 free-agency is their one shot at getting another great player. I wouldn’t have signed Tyrus and have yet another salary commitment for 2010

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

which is why letting BG go in the first place was so dumb.

they should have been stockpiling assets to make an attractive trade, rather than trying to bid in a market where, by definition, they won’t be able to outbid their competition (the teams where the stars are already located).

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I'm really getting more upset by the minute that they let him go

I think our best shot to contend would have been to keep BG and all of our current guys, then trade for someone like Amare and Boozer. Then you have two potential superstars (Boozer/Stoudamire, Rose) a flat out shooting assassin in BG and plenty of nice role players like Noah. Not sure if it would have been good enough to win a ring, but I think it would have given us our best shot.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 7, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep. we're screwed for the conceivable future as far as actually contending for a ring goes.

best chance we have is shooting for a series of second round bounces.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 7, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So luring a top free agent is a pipe dream

but trading for a multiple time all star is the team’s best shot?

Either way is a gamble, the way you two propose is actually more complicated to pull off, and so in my eyes, less likely.

If you were arguing that a team including Gordon and Tyrus was a championship contender in itself, that would be one thing. However, i don’t see that argument being made.

by runningman on Nov 10, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So why were you so disappointed that he got hurt?

Were you hoping that he played well and we trade him? Or was it just purely basketball reasons?

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 7, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if he played well

they could trade him. they could win more games.

Also, in the likely possibility they strike out in 2010, they could sign him then.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Word.

Our org keeps making mistake after mistake after mistake. The scary part is that they don’t seem to realize it. I mean, if JR was sincere about being so upset with the team’s first half performance last season (remember that rant on CSN?), then why does he continue to screw over our chances at improving???

Unless he actually thinks he’s making the right decisions…uh-oh.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 10, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying that we win

If we let go of BG and Tyrus and get Rudy Gay and Taj? Rudy Gay is Ron Mercer all over again. I don’t want Ron Mercer again. I want Tracy McGrady again (Dwayne Wade), damnit! You want to remain at .500 for the forseeable future. I want to be a 60 win team for the forseeable future. Getting rid of BG and Tyrus and getting Gay and Taj is not helping the 60 win cause.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Nov 7, 2009 9:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Move-notch?

Is that like man-hour?

by Cannoli on Nov 7, 2009 11:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

According to the tribune

The Bulls expect him to be back in 13 games.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Nov 8, 2009 9:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don’t get the whole Tyrus is selfish. He’s never badmouthed Vinny, never said anything over the top. He was only quoted as saying he thinks he deserves to start. If yer the starter and you don’t think that, then to me, that is a problem. He works hard to improve, doesn’t get in trouble…does a ton of community service with kids and still all Chicago media and fans say is that he’s a troublemaking knucklehead. Sure he pouts a little but overall he’s not the cancer people make him out to be. I’d like to see him be more productive and before the injury, it looked like he was doing much better.

I just hate how Chicago always creates one scapegoat for all the team’s problems…guess it’s just easier that way.

by C Smoove on Nov 8, 2009 2:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This season has just started for all of you psychics out here in chicago. The season is long If Ty has an above average year he Will be kept otherwise we would’ve had Boozer already. I doubt he will have this aforementioned above average year because the better he plays the less tick he gets for some reason. His awareness is obviously his biggest problem so him sitting for a month might really help him. I don’t buy the selfish thing either it looks like he’s trying to improve his play to help the teams play that’s not selfish.

by BullFan on Nov 8, 2009 2:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

TT is 23

He will be better

by JustAnotherFan on Nov 9, 2009 8:03 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I just can't wait for him to be moved

So we can talk about something other than is Tyrus a good player or not. He will not be on the Bulls it looks like all are agreed on that, whether it be his fault or VDN’s. I am just interested to see once he is moved if he turns into one of the greats as some seem to think he has the potential to be for some reason. If we kept Tyrus as a 6th man I would be okay with that I just don’t see him ever developing into the starting PF on a really good team. But hopefully for his sake I am wrong on that.

The Dude Abides

by Savage23 on Nov 10, 2009 5:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Happy Black Jack Loser, Not Me!

I agree except for the part about you ‘’feeling better when you lose at black jack cuz the person next to you hit his 16’’. Are you nuts!? Due to many variables it may or may not be the right play at that particular time however when randomness returns a fickle favor I personally am happy to rake some checks in my direction, no matter the circumstance.

by caseace on Nov 10, 2009 6:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs


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