Bulls 86, Cavs 85: If winning ugly's the only way to win, I'll take it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 5, 2009 11:28 PM CST
299 comments
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Chicago | 91.0 | 94.5 | 42.6% | 12.5 | 13.0 | 6.6 |
| Cleveland | 93.4 | 45.1% | 14.8 | 19.6 | 13.2 |
(more on the 4 factors box score)
The Cavs have been perennially one of the top defensive teams in the league since Mike Brown took over as coach. Tonight the Bulls looked like an even better unit out there.
Though it's not like the aforementioned Brown has ever had his teams looking very fluid on offense. The Bulls only had 6 TOs all night, forcing the Cavs into their ugly half-court 'sets'. And Shaq looked way too slow to be consistently effective, and playing him and Z together never made sense, and Mo Williams takes way too many rushed shots for someone who shares the floor with LeBron, and LeBron absolutely coasted all night to the point of embarrassment.
But it was Noah making life miserable for Shaq. And Deng staying in front of LeBron so well that Mike Fratello actually claimed that Deng had the size/speed combo to do so (he doesn't). Kirk Hinrich was everywhere defensively tonight, and I loved the play where LeBron was stuck in the paint with the defense collapsed on him, and Hinrich literally ripped the ball from his hands.
LeBron spent so much time looking like he couldn't care less hoisting jumpers that I think the referees forgot who he was on his final drive, and didn't give him the call as he flailed into Noah. I think LeBron lost the ball on the way up before even making contact, so while it shouldn't be praise to make the correct call, it was indeed unexpected given the circumstances.
While the Bulls defense held together all night (they shot 30% in the 3rd quarter and stayed within 5), I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and James to pull out the win with no comparable Bulls player existing to respond. It actually looked like it was going that way, with a James three-pointer followed by a block on Salmons. But Mo Williams hesitated a bit on a kick-out 3, then took an inexplicable running layup that wasn't even close. The Bulls own late-game ineptitude (didn't score with 3 possessions in the final 1:44) allowed James to still be able to be the hero down one with the ball, but Deng and Noah did the job. In fact, lets not say James didn't get the superstar call, but Noah did get one.
The Bulls offense still, more or less, blows. They weren't even able to hit the offensive glass tonight (a Cavs strength, denying that). Deng/Salmons/Hinrich shot a good percentage, but while Deng had a corner three-pointer (huge if he can do that) Hinrich and Salmons only chipped in 2 between them.
Is this the way it's going to be all year? The Bulls incapable of being even an average offensive team and having to hustle and defend their way to mediocrity? If so, even the wins will be ugly. But they have a long time to get better, and in April nobody will care how the Bulls beat the Cavs on the road, but that it was a win.
To the bullets...
- I hope you 'Rise of Taj'-ers are happy. Now he's not only taking away Tyrus's playing time, but Noah wasn't in for the final stretch of minutes either (he was subbed in late for that final stand against James). With the announcing crew pumping up the rookie ('the coaching staff tells us...' said before each laudatory remark) it sure seemed like Gibson played better than a 5-12 shooting night and a pedestrian 7 rebounds (I think his OREBs are inflated due to catching his own misses) in 33 minutes. And while you can see how he helps in other areas, he's playing way way too much.
- I do thank Taj Gibson for stepping up and being the new Chris Duhon of BlogABull. I heard there was a tearful passing of the torch ceremony and everything, though Duhon ruined the after party getting too drunk.
- You just knew VDN would try throwin Pargo out there early to see if he was still hot from the Bucks game. Nope, the good-games streak ended at one, Pargo was 0-4 in 11 minutes.
- Yet more on VDN: that 'inside trax' feature on TNT does not serve him well. I realize that it's good to keep things simple in the huddle, but 'shoot with confidence' (huh?) and 'RUN!' don't make me think he's the next great hardwood tactician. And I don't think I ever heard a single mention of defense, which isn't as much an indictment as it is just funny given the preseason hype. All that said, what does matter is that they're playing better defense, and as much as I roll my eyes at VDN's motivational ploys, they play hard. I'd think this group would play hard regardless and deep down know he's still in over his head, but still.
- Tyrus Thomas wound up playing sick tonight after flying in late to meet up with the team. Wasn't quite the Jordan flu game, he hit a couple jumpers and didn't do anything else. Sure, it stinks that Taj has now risen to take his job and he'll be dealt for nothing or left to walk at the end of the season since Vinny's tired of him, but I'll enjoy the guy while we have him, and glad he gutted out this game to maybe possibly win back some of the coaching staff's trust.
- Kudos to TBJ's Tas Melas for capturing the ridiculous way LeBron addressed the refs post-game, calling one over just to give a fake-confused 'let me get this straight' face while ultimately saying nothing. It's a dick move in an argument, and I know because I've pulled that move when I'm feeling dick-ish.
- Luol didn't only hit a corner three tonight, but had a turnaround jumper over a Cavs guard after a defensive switch. If he can do both of those things more often, that's a new wrinkle, and it won't matter that he can't score in isolation off the dribble. Until the end of games when he's hoisting up shots barely hitting the rim, but that will be Rose time eventually (right?).
- Speaking of Rose...that seemed like a quiet 14pt, 11ast night, though once again he contributed most in the 4th quarter (10 pts), which is fantastic. Only 2 TOs with those 11assists.
- I don't get how the Bulls have beaten two top-tier teams while looking this bad either. Maybe the Spurs were tired and the Cavs aren't good right now. But it's so huge that they're getting these wins in the early toughest part of the schedule.
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I am getting more angry by the day that this team let Ben Gordon leave
Everything that I see and hear makes me think the Bulls aren’t gonna get a major 2010 FA like Bosh or Wade. And I just don’t think it was worth losing Gordon for the slim possibility. The reason I’m bringing it up in a post game thread is because I think this team could be damn good if he were here right now. Not just that, but I think they could be even better if they could’ve pulled off a trade for a guy like Boozer at the deadline to pair with Gordon, Rose and Deng.
And if they end up trading for Boozer at the deadline anyway, I’ll be pissed as all hell because of what could have been. They have a shitty plan, they’re cheap assholes and I’m really upset by it. Other than that, it was a fun game (probably would have won by 10-12 points if BG was here) and just like YFBB said in his post game wrap, these games are huge and will be that much more important if we can improve this whole sucking on offense thing by the end of the season.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 5, 2009 11:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I try to forget that
though with BG, it’d just be another way for VDN to mess around with playing time, so maybe it wouldn’t be as much of a positive this season.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, BG has been insane so far this year. He's got a 26.8 PER and his TS% is like 66%
He’s also getting to line twice as often as he ever did as a Bull (8.4 FTA per 36). Maybe he’s driving more or maybe the Bulls guards just don’t get calls ever?
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rip and Prince are out...
so he probably has the ball in his hand a lot. He is obviously sick though.
by Super-Structure on Nov 6, 2009 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Surprisingly his USG% is 26.3% so far, which is actually lower than his career average (27.3%).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Stuckey has been the black hole for them so far.
Still, their three guards are carrying the team (four when Rip comes back). Too bad they have no front court to speak of. Wallace will eventually wear down if they keep playing him so much.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 12:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really, the only difference in his numbers is he's shooting even better than he ever did
total FG% 51.3%, and he’s getting to the line waaaay more. Which has greatly boosted his already crazy scoring efficiency.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's on a team that's actually running some sort of offensive system
It’s a lot easier to score when the system isn’t “OK, guys, ISO up!!!”
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 6, 2009 1:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on man, didn't you watch the game?
There’s a lot more to it. Like the “RUN, RUN, RUN!” play.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is true. Kuester is an offensive genius. They really miss him in Cleveland.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and he's usually a slow starter.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe it was just bad Bulls juju, because they usually start slow.
Wait a tick, the Bulls haven’t started out as slow as normal and neither has Ben. Hmmm. Maybe the breakup was the best for both parties.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
by Horsepower on Nov 8, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Suns are 4-1.
Thats all I’m going to say about this game.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 5, 2009 11:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
the suns got wins over a crap MIN team, a crap LAC team, a real crap road GSW team,
and one good win over miami on the road. all things considered, chicago’s resume is a bit more impressive so far.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
by TheMoon on Nov 5, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't you just compare this game to the White Sox winning the World Series?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 5, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You are never positive; almost to the point of being a troll. Tonight was good. It was ugly, but
it was good. Please cut the negativity out, particularly after win. It’s annoying.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 5, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're starting to get really, really annoying.
Who gives a shit about the Suns?
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's just trying to diminish the importance of this win, because he's a gigantic Debbie Downer.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to diminish it, at least do it in an intelligent way.
He came across like a 5th grader there. “BUT THE PHOENIX SUNS ARE 4-1!!! Don’t you guys get it?! Do you see the comparison?!?!?! This all means nothing!!!”
All I can do is roll my eyes. Sad, really.
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get what it means either.
SoulEater is a chronic drunk-poster, too.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was posting comments like this during the game the entire tonight.
It’s getting pretty unbearable.
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
can't see it if you don't flag.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
was it the Taj Gibson comment?
That I liked the pick?
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 12:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
all I was saying was that Shaq in Cleveland isn't good.
I loved that the Bulls won.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well maybe you should, you know, articulate better and actually say this in your original post
…instead of firing off mindless, ambiguous one-liners, just as you did all night during the game thread.
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
damn boy you're sensitive tonight.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just trying to show you what people are getting frustrated by so you don't end up getting banned for unintentionally trolling
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh my. so much is explained.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't around during the joejoe days
…but I’ve heard he was quite the character. Could this really be him?
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's joejoe? And why did he/you get banned?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's the correct response.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You brought it up
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2009 12:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
joejoe died.
hit by a train end of story.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 1:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, especially because the Suns have had one of the easiest schedules in the NBA
thus far, while the Bulls have had one of the toughest. Coming out 3-2 after playing Spurs, Celts, Heat, Bucks, and Cavs is pretty impressive, especially since they beat 2 of the 3 toughest teams in that group.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell yeah.
I figured we’d get 2 wins max, but honestly I would have thought we’d be 1-4, with our only win coming vs. Milwaukee. I’m very excited by our success so far, especially given Derrick isn’t healthy and we’ve been shooting pretty terribly as a team. There is much room for needed (and expected) improvement, so I’m looking forward to seeing how our offense grows when Derrick returns to health. He looked great in the 4th quarter tonight.
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I thought 2 wins was a pretty optimistic goal. I hoped to finish the first 15
games 6-9 and then take off from there, but to end up 3-2 through 5 games without even feeling like the Bulls have played that well so far? It’s got me pretty optimistic. I think the offense will continue to be rubbish, but if they can sustain the kind of defensive effort they’ve been throwing out lately, they can win 45-48 games.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
half way to
that prediction, lets get greedy
by QUINTEN DALEY on Nov 6, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
am i the only one who thought tyrus looked like he could have played 25-30 mins tonight?
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
by TheMoon on Nov 5, 2009 11:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought so, too. I thought Noah could have played 40. But such is Vinny-ball.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noah should be playing 38-40 every night.
It’s disturbing to me that he seems to not even be cracking 30 minutes most games.
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
also, i thought they could have used noah's offense more.
if they faced up noah in an iso situation with shaq, im pretty certain noah could beat shaq off the dribble.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
by TheMoon on Nov 6, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this is what i'm sayin'!
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Nov 6, 2009 12:05 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of the players looked like the could have played 40 minutes.
Fortunately, we have a coaching staff who does not all them to do so…
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 6, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my 3-2 prediction came to be!!!!
honestly, looking at it from the baseline view, Lebron’s bicep went into Noah’s chest and Lebron lost the ball. i thought it was a good no-call. Noah never hit him in the arm with his arms/ hands, and he jumped straight up, meaning he is entitled to that spot, even if the offensive player jumps into him. we actually pulled that one off.
i agree Taj is playing a bit too much. i’m actually impressed. he’s doing it in real games now. but i felt Del Coacho left Noah for a bit too long on the bench in the 4th.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Nov 5, 2009 11:58 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Close out
Miller’s 4th Q offense helped the team stay in the game and he scored on some shots from outside the paint.
When Taj was in late in the game, i don’t recall may easy Cav baskets, I think he’s playing within the team defense and has enough of a jump shot to stay out on the floor when it’s working.
Tyrus was recovering so we’ll see how the minutes evolve over the next 5 games
by Noe_Valley on Nov 6, 2009 4:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, LeBron used his right elbow to hook...
I think it was Deng… It wasn’t blatant, and I don’t think it should have been called, but they could have called it since it technically was a foul.
then a few minutes before all that there was an obvious foul on Gibson when he was going up for a dunk/layup that they missed. Add that to the 24 second violation that should not have been called and I don’t feel very sorry for Cleavland… they got their share of calls throughout the game.
by 72-10 on Nov 6, 2009 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bring this up
because you mentioned it was a good no-call. Which I agree with, but I do think it was one that could have gone either way.
by 72-10 on Nov 6, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and being Lebron and all...
i was very surprised it wasn’t called.
and i was fine with Miller out there. i just think Taj was playing well, but not to cut into Noah’s minutes in the 4th.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Nov 6, 2009 11:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Missed foul
I couldn’t believe the announcers praised Shaq’s block on Taj without mentioning the uncalled foul. Sure, Shaq got a hand on the ball, but he jumped directly in Taj and leveled him. That was closer to flagrant than a no call.
by El Toro de Goro on Nov 6, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's that dumb NBA rule
about a players hand on the ball is part of the ball?
I don’t understand that one, but I guess if you block teh shot by hitting the player’s hand while that portion of the hand is on the ball then it cannot be a foul. They usually call hitting the player on the wrist or arm or something that’s off the ball.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to
mention, Derrick Rose didn’t even touch Mo Williams on the pump fake and try to jump into the defenders body play
by QUINTEN DALEY on Nov 6, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True that.
That was dreadful.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Nov 6, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I DEMAND HINRICH GET A BULLET
in referencing all the close shot, trick moves he did on the cavs tonight!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 5, 2009 11:59 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
yeah, what the hell was that?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this is the 1st night i've been completely happy with the Rose/Hinrich pg combo
they can play better, but overall, i thought both were good.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 6, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i haven't seen it until now
here u go
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 6, 2009 8:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously.
where did that come from?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
all these years he was just holding it back..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 6, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think its just the role
no one ever noticed after 06-07 (when alot of, hey kirk is a combo guard not a pure pg stuff really started pouring out) that kirk tried to be more pg-ish….i even remember B*&@^$ saying how because of his coaching kirk had become more like a pg, but i think it was basically by that time deng and gordon had solidified their roles (for at least a year) that they were the main source of offense and kirk seemed to take a more passive (in every sense) role. He probably shot around when he was supposed to, but i think this year was the first real year since his sophmore or junior campaign that he worked on his overall offense, his shot is more fluid (even if he is still missing) he is less tenative to attack and is attacking with several old/new moves. He said earlier this season his goal was to be a starter, and he will never be a starting pg for the bulls anymore, so it makes sense that he is laying out his offensive repetoir (as limited as it is) so that perhaps he can get a starting gig, either here or elsewhere…so far this reason the argument is still there of whether kirk should start over fish ( i like this nickname) and although im a huge fan of kirk, i think coming off the bench is still the best role for him on this team, mainly cuz of his skill set not lack of ability…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and he always seems to brick the easy ones
go figure
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More of that
kirk needs to do more of that…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what happened to kirks chin
Just saw clips of the game on the news and saw that he had his chin bandaged….
And Tyrus better start the next game.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 5, 2009 11:59 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
he got hit while trying to take a charge
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
by LBJ. who got the foul call on that play anyway?
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...while the announcers didn't even mention that it should have been a charge, or that that Hinrich was bleeding...
profusely out his chin. Then the camera showed him going to the locker room and Lebron getting 2 free throws out of it, while the announcers continued to talk about Mike Brown and Bernie Bickerstaff and showed him coughing up flem and spitting it into a gatorade cup. Twice. Ick.
by smash! on Nov 6, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
flem?
I assume Brown’s chewing tebakkee.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, he's not BRad cool enough to pull that off.
It was gross though, he was hacking and coughing them he looked for a cup and spat. Then they quickly cut away from him, cut to Kirk (or “KURT” as Vinny called him during one of the TNT films segments from a TOut!) walking back to the locker room, and then cut back to him again and he quickly spat again.
by smash! on Nov 6, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i watched the game today
fratello was pretty good towards us. called james for tkaing 4 steps on and and1 play. and for miller not getting foul calls 2 times. and talked about deng quite a lot too. reggie and marv, not so much
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 6, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fratello
The only Czar I like.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ditto
although i dont know any of any other czars, but i especially liked when he got made at reggie and marv when they were like “lebron didnt even touch the ground” and he was like “yea cuz he walks on air or something right?” Also, he has always been a fan of kirk hinrichs game in general :)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Miller was goofing on Fratello for that "on air" comment
Get off it Miller. A bad call is a bad call.
That travel was one where we needed Van Gundy to provide the color commentary.
“What the heck was that? He gets to take another two step jump?”
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was ticked at the ESPNews coverge of the game
A whole series of Lebron highlights and then the casual, “Oh, but the Bulls won the game” mention at the end.
I knew what to expect, but it still makes me mad.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Nov 6, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
espn is incredibly annoying
about their lebron coverage, which is why i was extremely happy this game was on tnt.
one time we played them and lebron rolled his ankle, and they showed him stretching it instead of the actual game for like a full minute.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 6, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One other thing that was really interesting, looking at this recap:
The Bulls lost in 3 of the 4 Factors. Yet, because they kept their TOs so low, they were still able to pull off the win.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It also helped that the Cavs shot 60% from the FT line, while the Bulls shot 79%
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured the 4th quarter was gonna be all Cavs the way they dominated the glass.
But, Mike Brown is an idiot and continues to play Z and Shaq together when Varejao is his best big man (Sideshow Bob had +10 in a one point loss).
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 6, 2009 7:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rose looked great in the 4th quarter.
Let’s hope he keeps it up next game.
by Super-Structure on Nov 6, 2009 12:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
great passing
"I think it’s safe to say Noah and Rose are the future."
by Belize on Nov 6, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's really encouraging that Derrick has had 2 great 4th quarters in a row.
That’s the sign of a star right there.
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Shot selection this game
15/26 inside, 18/52 2pt jumpers, 3/10 3s.
52 2pt jumpers today (!!), 50 possessions used, and we got just 37 points from those possessions. Hate to be a debbie downer here after a good game, but we should’ve won this easily.
by YaoPau on Nov 6, 2009 12:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Meh, they got the W.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's luck
It’s the same reason why we can take good things from a loss.
by YaoPau on Nov 6, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They played well on defense. They were lucky the Cavs missed so many FTs though.
Also, I don’t see how their 30% 3pt shooting advises taking more threes. They’ve been pretty horrendous at 3 point shooting so far. I don’t really see how missing more shots would have helped them.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Deng needs to take more 3s
and Salmons needs to practice his catch and shoot. He is passing up too many open jumpers.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 6, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 3 point shooting is important in the aggregate, I just don't think they
are doing a great job of it lately and I don’t see why they would force bad shots behind the 3 point line just for the sake of appeasing shot selection hawks.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
salmons has a really hard time getting of a catch-and-shoot in rhythm
he just instinctively takes a jab step, which usually lets the defender recover
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially because the Cavs were keeping them off the offensive glass.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've been a big proponent of the 3 point shot, now after one win you disagree?
We’re an awful 2pt shooting team. Nearly all our scorers hover between 35-40% on 2s. The chances of making 50% eFG while taking 50 2pt jumpers a game is minimal. So if there’s no upside, and if our team o-rating is bottom 5 in the league as is, then continuing to do the same thing won’t work.
For every 2pt jumper we pass up for a 3 we make at a 30% rate, we come out ahead. I’d have Rose, Deng, Hinrich, Salmons, Miller all taking more.
by YaoPau on Nov 6, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough. I guess I've been "fooled by randomness." The Bulls got lucky
and won, and in the abstract, you’re right they should be shooting more 3s. I just don’t think they should force them if the looks aren’t there, but I suspect the looks probably are there, because no one is going to challenge that shot since they’ve been shooting it so poorly.
Personally, I’d be thrilled if Luol started spending more time camping in the corners and working on the block occasionally (as he seems to have added a nice fadeaway to his skillset).
In order to maximize their efficiency, the Bulls also need to be driving the ball to the rim a LOT more. They are a poor jump shooting team, so the only way for them to get high percentage looks is to get inside for layups and dunks or to get to the line by driving and getting fouled. The fact that they took twice as many 2pt jumpers over inside shots is, to me, just as damning, if not more so, than their lack of shooting more 3s, since they can penetrate fairly well, especially since Kirk seems to have improved at that this year, Derrick rules at it, Salmons is pretty good at slashing, Noah and Tyrus, when he’s on the court, both face up and dribble drive pretty well, Brad excels at slo-mo drives and Deng does well with penetration in a different way (off of cuts, etc.). So its clear that they have the personnel to get to the rim more often, they just have to do it.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Um.... 3/10 on 3's = 9 pts; 18/52 on 2 pt j's = 36 pts
0.9 points per shot attempt >>>> 0.69 points per shot attempt
3/10 on 3’s isnt’ good, but 18/52 is even worse
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's my bad. i still don't think you force threes for the sake of taking them
but if they are there, let them rip. but again, they need to be getting more looks inside. 26 isn’t good enough, when you’re taking 88 total shots. They need to drive to get to the line and to get easy looks.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I concur.
it is frustrating, though, to see Deng take a dribble to inside the 3 pt line just to get jumper into rhythm. He needs to be taken out of that comfort zone.
As to the last point. MORE TYRUS THOMAS, LESS TAJ GIBSON!!!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think they were shooting
an nba low like 22% on threes coming into the game actually. pretty awful.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 6, 2009 8:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it's luck they won
I’m excited the defense has looked this good. That would’ve been evident even if LeBron hits a shot late and the Bulls lost (though maybe more emphasis would be placed on LeBron coasting all game).
This offense still stinks and can’t be this bad all season if they want to get to even 40 wins. I don’t think it will be, but yipes.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and I was trying to not let the big picture stuff bother me
like Tyrus being pushed out of town for Taj Duhon.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Scooby-Doo villian, Tyrus would have played more if it weren't for that meddling Taj.
What do you think about Tyrus defense? I only saw 4th Q and was somewhat distracted.
I did see Tyrus miss and long jump shot and TO on a drive to the basket in the mid-late 4th Q. Then Taj.
by Noe_Valley on Nov 6, 2009 4:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nah, Vinny's the villian.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I give the vast majority of the credit for working well on Lebron to Deng
He played straight up great defense last night.
And despite the bagging on him and getting dunked on the first play of the game, I’ll eat some crow and say Taj Gibson did a very good job on the whole. This was the first game I looked at him and saw what, I guess, the Bulls are seeing.
by Sports2 on Nov 6, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I believed a lot less in Thomas's ability...
…(even less than you or others who are lukewarm on him), or I trusted this organization to play the mins “right,” I’d feel a lot better about him.
If Asik turns out to be a “poor-man’s Joakim Noah” (w/ a little more offensive-creating potential), I might even be pretty optimistic about the PF/C 4-some going forward. Maybe not championship-caliber, but not needing a lot further to go.
Alas, my faith in the org is not such, so I can’t bring myself to like him.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
where do you find the shot selection breakdown. link?
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 12:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN shot charts
They have it for every game, just count up the dots
by YaoPau on Nov 6, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, that's your job from now on :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
“Just count up 100 dots guys! Wait, why is everybody walking away from me?”
Found this though… CBS Sports does the count up for you. They only count layups and dunks as close shots, so they had the Bulls at 14/22 inside instead of 15/26, but you can quickly get a general sense of shot selection. Pretty cool.
By their totals: Bulls were 19/56 on 2pt jumpers, Cavs were 12/39. Awful shooting.
by YaoPau on Nov 6, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ok cool. i knew about the shot charts but have trouble counting higher than 20
(fingers and toes)
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought D. Rose controlled the offense masterfully tonight
even in the 1st half, he was just missing shots. But he was setting up guys all night. He overpassed it a couple of times but he was aggressive probing the defense. He wasn’t just standing out there.
Otherwise, the Bulls just have to keep up the D and balanced scoring. If everyone keeps contributing, the Bulls will be fine. But if Rose/Hinrich/Salmons/Deng/Noah miss any significant time, we could be in trouble.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 6, 2009 12:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I was really impressed with his playmaking tonight
It was great to see. Every time he had the ball he was a threat to score or get someone else an easy basket. He had complete control of the offense and only two turnovers. Still not as explosive as last year, but he’s starting to come around hopefully
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want the ball in his hands in the 4th.
damn John Salmons what was that?
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i don't know if it was by design (hopefully it was)
but he seemed to have the ball in his hands much more tonight. Instead of setting back picks and being in the corner without the ball. The Bulls should be doing that every night, not just against Shaq.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 6, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned it earlier
…but his aggression in the 4th was fantastic. If he can be like that from wire to wire, we’ll be a much better and far more dangerous team on offense.
by Illini15 on Nov 6, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there were a couple of times I thought Rose should have just went up on a layup.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Pargo has to quit jacking up god-awful shots
I know we brought him in for a little scoring punch off the bench and I know most people question if he can supply that, but I really don’t have a problem with him taking the shots, it’s just that his shot selection has been so atrocious, it’s unbelievable. I seriously don’t think I’ve seen him take what I would consider a good shot yet.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2009 12:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pargo's shot selection is always bad. It's been that way his whole career. I don't see it changing now.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pargo is Larry Hughes
without the insistence that he’s a star.
Also, with worse shot selection. I know that seems hard to believe.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 6, 2009 1:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Hughes did have that one good season. More than Pargo could say.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re-read some of the game thread late
lots of comments about Salmons hogging the ball from Rose on that final ‘play’ from the Bulls. Didn’t take notice of that when I saw it.
They just show the replay though and it showed after the ball was deflected towards Deng, who dribbles out with Rose clearly in view with his hands out. Deng instead keeps dribbling to the right side of the court where he hit that running leaner that grazed the rim.
But hey, listen: That’s the responsibility of a captain :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 12:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think the bigger problem with the Salmons part of it was
(1) it was early in the possession, so there was plenty of time for Rose to create still
(2) Salmons was double teamed and rather than make the easy pass to Derrick, who was wide freakin’ open, Salmons tried to float some junk to Miller which got deflected.
Deng got the ball in more of a frenzy and probably felt hurried to create a shot. But, all that being said, I’d still rather see him pass of to Derrick there, too.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 12:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"probably felt hurried to create a shot"
And that isn’t something Deng is good at. After he catches the ball and there is nothing there his chances of making it decreases a lot because he goes into panic mode and tries to make something happen.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The announcers were on Salmons from the beginning for taking quick shots.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah. Salmons was actually not totally terrible last night, but he was still not great.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they were a bit flaky on that point
when he hit his first shot, they liked the quick shot because it would ‘help get him going’.
I guess things change when you miss.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i got the idea
that they wanted salmons to take the freethrows, or maybe salmons wanted salmons to take the freethrows is more accurate. While dribbling up the court he anticipated a foul, it was kind of obvious (although any smart coach knows, you throw out your best free throw shooting lineup, and have them move the ball around as much as possible to delay the foul anyway, so passing to rose still made sense) Deng was the one who jacked up the stupid shot, and yea rose was open THE WHOLE TIME!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
funny and sad watching that replay
with rose up top, shoulders hunched and hands out front pleading for the ball. then when deng started to drive rose’s shoulders slumped in to an “aw man…” stance.
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm allowed to talk...
I noticed at times Deng was intentionally ignoring Rose on breaks. (To some degree) Remember last season it took them a couple months to figure out who the #1 pick was. And that we was a point guard.
Rule number one once getting the rebound is to get the ball to Rose.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 12:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's paranoia, isn't it?
Last year was BG and Rose. Now it will be Deng?
by JustAnotherFan on Nov 6, 2009 6:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Technically Deng hardly played last year.
This is his first real year next to Rose.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're totally right
I didn’t notice it as much at the time cause I was busy watching the clock and being mad as hell at Salmons, but Lu definitely had Rose right in front of him and easily could have flipped the ball to him
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2009 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My biggest problem with that play
Was that they didn’t call a timeout. When salmons was trapped at the top I was calling for time. But after that broke down and everyone was just running around, I thought it’d make more sense to call TO and “try to draw” up something.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 6, 2009 7:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I believe they had a .20 and a full left.
so they could’ve at least called the 20 if VDN wanted to have one in his pocket in case of some Cavs miracle late.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yea thats wat i thought
instead he lets the play go horrifically and then calls a timeout with 0.2 secs left…
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 6, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think it was 2 20s
pretty sure they didn’t have a full towards the end of the game. but still.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 6, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Lu had a good look though and should have made that shot.
Or at least hit iron (which I think he actually did). It just looked to me like he needed to get a shot off bc the shot clock was going to expire and he too it to the rim. Not sure he was able to look and see exactly how much time he had. Not a bad play, just a bad ending to it. Every pass leading up to Deng getting the ball was terrible though.
by smash! on Nov 6, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agree 100%
it hard to understand the piling on deng for trying to save a nearly FUBAR play. he didn’t see rose with only seconds left? well, first he managed to grab the loose ball. i’d say that was rather crucial! and he did at least get a decent shot off going strong (to his strong side). despite ernie’s repeated comments that the ball didn’t hit rim, it clearly did, and the ultra slow replay wasn’t necessary to see it either (as the game crew – marv/reggie/czar – were claiming). that’s why it’s good the ball has seams, it’s easy to follow the rotation. all in all, deng’s play (and miller’s offensive reb that didn’t count) were the only good things that happened on that sequence.
i also believe vinny was down to his last :20 timeout, so if he’d used it there’d have been none left. and nobody here would dream of criticizing him for not having one left, would they?
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
by marionette on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who besides me saw deng
dribble penetrate into the paint and dish off to teammates (on at least three occasions)?
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
by marionette on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LBJ punched in the nuts by a fan?
I just watched the highlights on NBA.com, and on that play in the first half where LeBron ended up in the seats and took forever to get up, it kinda looked like a fan in the second row reached out to grab him and ended up punching him in the nuts. He immediately grabbed his crotch and I didn’t see any other crotch contact prior to that, and afterward the announcers made a chuckling reference to his having gotten hit in the “upper thigh.”
Anyway, I hate to see a guy get hit in the balls but it would be pretty funny if it was a fan that done it.
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 1:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I looked more like a rub to me
I mean, one of those guys just started carressing LBJ legs, didn’t he?
by JustAnotherFan on Nov 6, 2009 6:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he had stuff spilled on him and he went to brush it off.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought so too...
it was not while the camera was close-up (the rub someone referred to) but right before that while the camera was still panned farther away.
by smash! on Nov 6, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Tyrus loses his starting job after tonights win..?
Could VDN use this as a way to bench Tyrus? ( I’m not saying thats what I want) I’m just wondering if VDN is carrying out the front offices’ 2010 plan for them. They screw with him to the point he boils over and then bam they have a reason to bench him? Evil. Which was their plan all along. I hope not. But from all indications I’m not sure Tyrus is a Bull anymore. I don’t know.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I say no.
The front office’s plan from day one was to play defense.
My guess is the new emphasis on defense this season, which seems to be working, is why Taj is seeing playing time.
Tyrus doesn’t need to be screwed or manipulated – he is under the gun to perform due to this contact expiring soon. No need to fabricate an blow-up.
The man had the flu and was playing in a close game, I’d expect coach to pull anyone not playing their best game.
I do think coaches are uing playing time to reward defensive effort and execution. Tyrus is one of the guys impacted by the emphasis on team defense.
by Noe_Valley on Nov 6, 2009 4:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is mostly up to Tyrus
Will he be consistent? Will he improve his game? Will he play more of those double-double or just make 3-14?
by JustAnotherFan on Nov 6, 2009 6:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Questions no one else on the team are fielding. No matter how bad they play.
The same could be said of Salmons for example.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is because they don't have a rookie behind them...
Who is outplaying them on one of the floor and holding their own on the other.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 6, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The rookie behind Salmons hasn't even been given the opportunity to compete.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons is playing the 2
JJ is a 3/4. Hinrich and Pargo are behind Salmons.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, well Hinrich has "outplayed" Salmons. Why isn't he pushing Salmons
for the starting spot?
It doesn’t matter. Tyrus is better than Taj and that this is even a discussion is embarassing. You’re not paying attention.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't talking about Tyrus/Taj
I was replying specifically to your comment above mine.
Personally, I think Tyrus has played really well this year, when he’s been on the floor. It frustrates me as to why they go away from him when he has been, can be, and should be a game-changer for the Bulls. Taj should be getting 10-12 minutes a game, really.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I mistakenly attribute D2.0's dumb point to you. My bad.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus may be "better" than Taj
But Taj has played better defensively than Tyrus this season…
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 6, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
untrue!
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
by marionette on Nov 6, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons has a vet behind him
who considers himself a starter and is playing for the position. That should be more of a bid than from an unusually old rookie who has a number of years to prove himself and can get enough experience this year with the regular rookie minutes. Tyrus just has one year left with the Bulls and is still better than Du-Taj.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like how Taj can be consistently below-average
as long as it’s consistent.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Though I think we can upgrade from Malik Allen 2.0
To Joe Smith 1.5
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 6, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, he's better defensively than Malik
All Allen could do is stand and take a charge, and bring a tear to Skiles’ eye.
Taj really isn’t good though.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not about his offense
its about his mistakes on defense. Offensively he needs to be in there. It seems like on defense he doesn’t get or can’t recognize the basic concepts.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
the front office has no plan.
I think Vinny is just tired of Thomas, and won’t play him despite his own best interest to do so.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I am glad Kirk and Hughes got injured early on last year
or the same might have been said for BG. By the time they came back BG held the spot long enough they couldn’t just change things up because they were finished with him (contractually and emotionally).
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and thats how bg got his big contract with the bulls...
oh wait….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He played as well as any other year (actually increase assists and decreased TOs)
and is continuing to play well. There isn’t any statistical jump that some guys have their contract year because they are being selfish. Nor is he slacking off now that he does have his money as some guys do.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what im saying is actually
that actually it wouldve been better for us, if ben didnt get much playing time, cuz maybe not alot of teams would be intrested then, of course we would also have a horrible season…im not insulting ben gordon, just thinking that ben playing alot minutes ultimately is what got him to detroit to begin with…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Was anybody else annoyed with the sound effects from Quicken Loans?
It was like someone was committing murder to my ears. The chuckle everytime a Cavs player made a free throw, the “Everybody Clap your hands…CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP”. There were others but it just all seemed so tacky. I know I can’t be the only person who noticed.
by aznsensation on Nov 6, 2009 1:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Lebron obviously likes the cha-cha slide...
that’s the only explanation for that stuff. another word to describe their arena sounds is immature, which can also be traced back to lebron.
by Daniel Satan on Nov 6, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP
is everywhere. every baseball stadium. every basketball arena. Same thing with WOOWOO-WOOWOO which I think is by Gwen Stefani. The only thing unique in the stadium entertainment industry is the fat guy dancers (matadors?). Everything else is the same in almost every stadium. So be thankful for the matadors.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer the golf-course atmosphere of the UC
I feel comfortable in my business casual.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The UC isn't any better. They just play music that was popular in the 80s.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 6, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i went to see bulls-mavs in dallas two years ago and
they did the same thing with the “everybody clap your hands.” annoyed the shit out of me
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as in every free throw. must have heard it twenty times.
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls, I love you.
And all you Bulls fans out there.
You made my day by beating the Cav’s. And no, no one cares whether it’s an ugly one or not: take, the, W.
Congratulations, and good luck in the future!
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel, Celtic fan.
by Kiorrik on Nov 6, 2009 4:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Taj x TT
I do like TT’s game and potential. Yet he still lacks consistency and must really step up this season. Taj may be limited but is working his ass out while TT can earn his minutes playing one good game for every 10. I really hope to see TT fire it up this season, let’s see if he does now that he is recovering from the flu. If he does, I think Gibson will be a good asset for combining in a trade. If he doesn’t it will be good to have Taj around. Anyway, I more worried about trading Hinrinch – which I like – because I really do think you have a good chance to lure a star if we have the cap space.
by JustAnotherFan on Nov 6, 2009 6:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Way I see it
Trading Kirk means more pargo. Not sure if I can take that.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 6, 2009 7:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
"Taj may be limited but is working his ass out"
Bleck.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How is Taj limited?
Or more importantly, what is he doing out there to hurt the team? He is only shooting when open, he is knocking down the open shot from 15 feet, and he is playing good defense (he even had a block on Shaq)
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 6, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His rebounding is awful.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His off reb% is better than Tyrus and his overall reb % is 5th on the team…just 1.2% behind Tyrus, and better than Brad…
His rebounding may not be the best on the team, it is a stretch to call it horrible.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 6, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you take preseason into account, Taj has shown he's not going to be a good defensive rebounder.
A glaring weakness of the Bulls last season. Getting better defensively means preventing offensive rebounds.
He has nice defensive instincts and the jumper looks solid. But, asking what he does to hurt the team is the exact same logic people used to justify Duhon or Nocioni getting 30+ minutes. Reserve players get exposed the more they play.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 6, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, take the preseason for a rookie
and you can see what his entire career will be.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, take 6 games for a rookie
And you can say he’s outplaying someone (even though he’s obviously not).
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 6, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He was a crappy defensive rebounder in college too
Though I’ll say Tyrus hasn’t been much of a rebounder either :(
by YaoPau on Nov 6, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it's gone downhill during his career
but still better than Taj.
This is more about Tyrus than him. Tyrus is so gone, ‘consistency’ wins again. Talent is not necessary.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His TS% is less than Thomas.
His FG% is 0.004% greater than Thomas. 5 for 12 is not consistently knocking down the open shot from 15 feet.
He’s not outplaying Thomas on the offensive end, and he’s being outplayed by Thomas on the defensive end. Wow, he had a block on Shaq. Thomas blocked LeBron James on one-on-one defense. So?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not the blocks
its the team defense. Thomas misses rotations and doesn’t help consistently. Taj ? apparently he does. He’s good at defending the pick and roll too. He forces the guard way out and recovers to his man well. Better than Thomas.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Taj doesn't know his opponents yet
He doesn’t know their games, their tendencies, their moves, their skills, etc.
He knows his game. He knows the basics of playing an opponent. In time he will acquire these skills, but that isn’t solid ground to not play Tyrus when the defense gets a lot better when Tyrus is out there. The second benefit is Tyrus gets himself to the FT line.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if he knows his game,
why the hell cant he make that damned 12 ft jumper…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He won't make all of them
He should make about 45% of them. VDN is telling our guys to shoot it when they’re open.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?
Fish can earn his minutes playing one good game every ten. Tyrus needs to kick ass every play or he’ll be yanked.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus Love
I realize this board has a man-crush on Tyrus but simple truth is there’s more to ball than hops and athleticism. Tyrus doesn’t seem to have a mind for the game… I see it; the Bulls see it; I don’t know why y’all can’t see it… but there it is.
Taj isn’t better than Tyrus but he appears to be smarter than him and therefore is getting the minutes. As it should be. If that makes you hate him, go right ahead. That makes perfect sense (that was sarcasm btw).
I would love to see the lightbulb go on for TT and be wrong… but I think if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now.
by dasspunk on Nov 6, 2009 7:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
To say all there is to Tyrus game is hops and athleticism is wrong
If you want to say he’s unorthodox, o.k, if you want to say he’s not fundamentally sound, I’d agree, but to say he’s not smart is also wrong.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 6, 2009 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's certainly not consistently smart
He’ll make a good play one possession, then a boneheaded one the next. I’m tired of it, honestly.
by jake1823 on Nov 6, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
then stop watching?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Taj isn’t better than Tyrus"
ok, then.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Are we going to see a redux of the 04-05 season?
So far, the Bulls have a top 10 defense, and are 27th in offense. That season, they were 2nd defensively, 27th offensively. There was no clear dominant scorer, instead relying on outworking the opponent and for the young team to take over in the 4th quarter.
Not saying Vinny is going to coach this team to elite defense, or they’ll continue to be this poor on offense, but it seems like these types of games could become a recurring trend.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 6, 2009 8:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think it matters most on whether Derrick Rose will get more injured over the course
of the season or not. Probably the former, unfortunately.
by NittanyCub on Nov 6, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if the doctors supposedly cleared him to play based on the supposed fact that he couldn't do further damage to the aknle by playing,
then i don’t see how you could say that
by Daniel Satan on Nov 6, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
'Probably'?
What exactly are you basing that on?
by Stacey_Is_King on Nov 6, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Listen to the VDN "Inside Trax"
VDN is using similar strategy that Skiles used.
“Push the ball guys. Get out in transition. When we miss shots, GET BACK! Shoot it if you’re open.”
The last one is the one that bothers me. We have lots of guys that are wide open for shots, but this is when there is 15 seconds on the clock. Do we want to be jacking em up that early? I’d rather see ball movement to make the opponent work harder on defense.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni
has made a career out of getting open shots by getting back quickly. And it has turned mediocre players into three point machines (Read: Channing Frye, Grant Hill (never a 3pt shooter), Boris Diaw, Shawn Marion (when was the last time he got his awful only better than Noah shot into the basket for a non-suns team)). Which is a good reason to pursue the, if open, shoot, philosophy.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
double screen
did you guys catch the double screen they’ve been running the last few games? I’ve seen it a few times, and I think it is a nice play to mix in from time to time. TNT pointed it out once… but I know I’ve seen them run that play in previous games. Could Vinny be doubling the number of plays in the playbook to 2?!
by 72-10 on Nov 6, 2009 8:27 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Complain complain complain
Do you enjoy anything about basketball or watching the Bulls? I’ve been reading this blog for years now and since the playoff run in ‘07 you haven’t done anything other than spew anger and disappointment. Sure, it sucks that Pax hasn’t made better moves over the years but it’s not interesting, entertaining or insightful to read “this team sucks” over and over.
by rosesareread on Nov 6, 2009 9:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
the problem is that by and large it's true.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're not dissapointed
with this organization and the moves it has made, you simply aren’t paying attention. Anyone that is satisfied with what the Bulls have done in recent years needs to raise his or her expectations.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Nov 6, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What could they have done differently?
What do you expect? Being a title contender every year of every decade? You all endless complain about how guys are overpaid (Deng, Hinrich), and then out of the other corner of your mouth you complain about how cheap the owner is. Which is it?
I mean, jeez, they just beat the Cavs on the road in a tight game (which we should have lost because we don’t have that sure-fire HOFer BG to win for us), and you can’t even enjoy it.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the owner is selectively cheap
I want a title contender and will complain until they get one. It’d be nice to even have the sort of plan to get in the direction to get to be one.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's both. The owner is cheap because he won't EVER pay the luxury tax, but at the same
time spends lavishly on the WRONG guys, so the cheapness problem is compounded because he’s spent too much of his self-imposed spending limit on the wrong guys.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Spends on the wrong guys?
That remains to be seen. Who did he spend money on? Deng and Hinrich, arguably two of the 3 best players on the team right now. He let Gordon go, which sucks, but BG was not and is not worth $55mil.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They also spent a ton of money on Noc by bidding against themselves and way overpaid
for Ben Wallace when we had a younger, cheaper version of him already on the team.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
I’m not at all implying that the Bulls are perfect and they every decision has been the correct one. I liked Chandler a lot, actually, but at the time they signed Wallace everyone (including me) thought it was a good move. Once it was clear that Wallace wasn’t the same – he put on some weight: a few zeroes in his bank account – they got rid of him.
In the long term, it worked out. We now have Noah – who’s a better overall player than Wallace & Chandler ever were or will be, and we have Rose, who we probably wouldn’t have if not for the collapse that precipitated the end of the Skiles/Wallace “era”.
The Nocioni thing was a flat-out mistake that didn’t even make sense at the time. But once he showed he wasn’t going to get better (in fact, he got worse) they used him to get Salmons and Miller.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
no, not everyone.
There’s plenty of evidence on the interwebs that shows no, not everyone thought it was a good move.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Best players on the team don’t mean they are worth $9.5 and $10.5 million a piece.
Over 40% of our cap space is going to Deng and Hinrich this year. Do you feel good about that? Even if they play well…
No, we haven’t made any monster mistakes like Peja, or Curry (ultimately Knicks) or Jermaine O’Neal, but it’s not like Hinrich ever looked like he was worth 10 million a year.
He’s a fine point guard on a very good team (like the Lakers for instance), but he’s not a game changer and now he’s our 3rd guard.
Deng had one really good year and got a big contract. He’ll make 14m in 4 years. That could really suck if the cap doesn’t start increasing soon.
It’s not like the team has had a lot of choices to make good extensions though. Look at some of the guys they’ve drafted. Even the higher profile picks of Chandler and Curry would’ve been horrible extensions. I think I can still hear their whining in my ears. Brand looks to be the only miss, he dominated in LA for at least a few years after we let him go. I’m not sure how they didn’t feel he could be a scoring option, yet spend over 20m collectively on Hinrich and Deng.
by RyPac13 on Nov 6, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Deng and Hinrich, arguably two of the 3 best players on the team"
that’s how you get a not-so-good-team
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But they look pretty good so far
And once Rose is 100%, and they start hitting shots that these guys have been making more-or-less their entire careers, the Bulls might be a pretty good team. Hinrich’s perimeter defense looks awesome this year, and Deng is really playing well.
I’d MUCH rather have them look good on defense and bad on offense than the other way around. Offensive-focused teams don’t win too much in the playoffs without playing good defense, but we’ve seen strong defensive teams win titles without being great offensively.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noah is at least better than Hinrich and rose too.
by biolb on Nov 6, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's been more consistent in his game
than most guys on the team this season. Including Rose. That isn’t a ten year projection, but it is a good sign coming from Noah still.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he meant
That Noah and Rose are both better than Hinrich, and he just worded it wrong.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
White Sox players.
Spends on the wrong guys?… Who did he spend money on?
"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith
by Granny Waiters on Nov 6, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Deng was not and is not
worth $71mil.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Title contender every decade like the Lakers or Celtics?
Yeah, I think that would be nice.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 6, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Celtics?
Not so much. After 1993, they had 7 straight losing seasons. After that, they were mediocre until they got Garnett & Allen. Before their dynasty in the ’80’s, they had a few down years in the ’70s.
The Lakers are the only team I’d say are consistently good.
Some on this board act as if being a perennial contender is a matter of choice, that every single team could do it if they simply wanted to.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is... the Bulls could do it if they wanted to and were smart enough about it.
They are a huge market team. If Reinsdorf didn’t cry poor all the time, this team would be a perennial contender.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
They could have spent more money, sure, but to get whom? Making a trade for Garnett would have emptied the roster of most of the talent, we never really had a shot at Kobe, and Pau Gasol would have been a permanent mediocrity sentence. As it stands now, the Bulls are probably still a “mediocre” team, but they have a lot of potential to be better than that by the end of this year, maybe beforehand.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they're paid to figure that out
I don’t think it’s been a good few years.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But it's not like other teams
are willing to just give up their superstars. What do you expect them to do? Criticism is hollow when there is no plausible alternative to the actions taken.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, thank god we didn’t get Garnett and Gasol. I’m much happier with Deng, and Gordon and Tyrus. Oh shit, we lost one of those guys and will probably bench the other soon. At least we paid the first guy!
by RyPac13 on Nov 6, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You think having Gasol as our #1 guy with little else on the roster would have brought success?
Really?
Gordon isn’t worth what Detroit paid for him, and getting Garnett would have gutted the team. Saying that the Bulls are about to bench Tyrus is speculation and I seriously doubt that will happen.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
gordon is averaging 25 ppg on 51% shooting for the pistons
if he keeps that up, and i think he can, he’s earning that paycheck
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Nov 6, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IF he keeps it up...
That remains to be seen. I certainly don’t think he will keep it up.
by jake1823 on Nov 6, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
Being in a different kind of offense with a different coach and teammates…even as a 6th man he is going to be playing a lot of minutes for them between the G/SG positions. And as a 6th man he’ll have a portion of that easier coming against their bench. Besides, he is off the Bulls and lost the stigma of that. The refs are calling a lot of fouls in favor of him that doesn’t get called on guys who play for the Bulls.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, neither is hinrich or deng, so what's your point?
you have to “overpay” good players when they’re free agents because they’re underpaid when they’re on their rookie contracts. If the Bulls got rid of all the guys that are overpaid (after all, that’s what you’re arguing they should do), they’d be minus Hinrich, Miller, Deng and Pargo.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you responding to me?
When did I say the Bulls should get rid of all “overpaid” guys? I agree that you do need to overpay free agents to an extent, but you should overpay the right guys who can bring the team consistent long-term success.
I’m only pointing out that the Bulls players some people clamor for aren’t those guys worth paying big money for. Especially when you need to acquire them in a trade where you’ve got ship out many of your good players. Then where does that get you? I just don’t see how things really could have gone differently where the Bulls would be title contenders this year…
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
Deng and Hinrich are not championship-caliber #1 guys, but Deng is a legit #3 guy on a title squad, and Hinrich is a championship-caliber role player. Both might be overpaid, but if we got Wade, LeBron or Bosh on the team (assuming Paxdorf’s master FA plan somehow works out), the Bulls are contenders next year with those guys, and their entire core would be really young.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You should overpay the right guys
And that is where your arguement fails.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course there are plausible options
The Bulls don’t put themselves in the best position to grab stars. We’ll see if 2010 plan works.
Drafting better would help too. Could’ve had Brandon Roy. I wouldn’t have made that pick, but I’m not paid millions to watch the final four and avoid the media.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
The Bulls haven’t been the best at getting top-shelf FA’s. And yes, skipping Roy for TT looks like a mistake (although we had BG at the time – kind of like a reversal from the ‘84 draft). I think Aldridge is overrated, and in any case isn’t the inside player he’s reputed to be. But then again, neither is Bosh. Oh well. Too bad for Tyrus, because if he stopped playing the way he “wants” to and focused on playing to his strengths – part of this has to be on the coaching – he could be an all-start right now.
Even with TT not getting an extension, and the 4th quarter minutes issue, and his flu, I’m still very optimistic about TT’s on the court performances (some missed defensive assignments notwithstanding) and he may yet prove to be an impact player.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No plausible alternative?
There were many many alternatives to where we are now. Paxson has made many many choices.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pay for Ben Gordon, draft a 2/3 3pt shooter (there were a lot)....
….trade away Salmons for one of those Kurt Thomas, PJ Brown, Antonio Davis (of the mid-00’s) types. Extend Tyrus Thomas. They’d be set for the next few years as a 50-win team this year, incrementally getting better as the younger guys figured out. In the off-season, try to trade Gordon, Hinrich, Thomas or Deng or any combination for Wade or Stoudamire or Bosh and they’re a legit contender if Rose becomes a very, very good player (which he needs to do, regardless). h
But they didn’t want to pay Gordon because he wasn’t a grinder, he wasn’t one of Jerry’s boyz, and Reinsdorf didn’t want to go into the luxury tax for one year, even if it meant 50+-win seasons for the next 5-10 years even if they don’t get a superduperstar.
As it is, if they miss out on that MAX player in the summer and Salmons opts out and goes somewhere else before they realize that they’re going to be extreeeeemely thin at SG and PF.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least you're giving alternatives
which I don’t see too often in the complaints (although, to be honest, I might just be missing those posts). However, in order for that plan to work, a great many things need to go the Bulls’ way, which is basically the situation they’re in anyway.
And I don’t think they let Gordon walk because he isn’t a “grinder”, they let him walk because he turned down 2 contract offers over $50mil, and he can only do one thing: score. He’s REALLY good at that one thing, but he’s not good at anything else (in an NBA-starter sense).
In any event, your idea is intriguing, but seems to carry as much risk – if not more – than the Bulls’ current “plans”.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the Yankees
I know the MLB is different, but they absurdly overmade, and they made an absurd profit.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
overpaid
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
plus I don't see how that effects enjoying winning last night's game
I think people can compartmentalize the joy of winning that game with the overall disappointment with the franchise.
Sorry, most people. Those who can handle two thoughts at once.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that feeling "overall disappointment in the franchise
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
is a bit unwarranted
I also want them to be title contenders, but that’s not an easy thing to do, and no team – aside from the Lakers – are consistently such. Even the Celtics were pretty bad/mediocre most of the ’90s and ’00s, before they got Garnett & Allen.
It’s not just that people are disappointed in specific aspects of the team, which we all are (starting with VDN’s tactics), but it gets to the point where it’s almost like many here aren’t even Bulls fans. I like this blog a lot, because when people bring up good, thorough analysis, but it’s so overly negative as if we are the Clippers or the Grizzlies or some other perennial bottom-feeder.
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm need the wisdom of YaoPau
We’ve played some great defenses. Maybe we should not be as upset about the play of the team.
It’s just very difficult to temper the constant organizational subjection the team carries. We know how bad they are. They’re plan looks like a poor one, but it could work.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cavs were not playing the same kind of defense that they normally play.
I’m not sure Shaq was even getting back on D until the shot clock was in the single digit area.
6 turnovers or whatever is great for us, but there was really no pressure at all from the Cavs all night. They looked similar to what the Spurs came out like against us.
by RyPac13 on Nov 6, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We don't want to be realistic
We want to root for an extraordinary organization. Why is that so hard to understand?
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I love how people complain about the complaining.
"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z
by bigballa10 on Nov 6, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, YOU stop complaining!!111!
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 6, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
you shouldn’t read it anymore.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
would you perfer a rah-rah cheerleader post?
that was a fun game last night, but lets face it… we didn’t play great. We played OK, and well enough to win, and he points that out. But I think most watching could see that Cleavland lost that game (Playing Shaq with Z on the floor at the same time, LeBron not really putting out 100% effort etc.) as much as we won it.
by 72-10 on Nov 6, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was actually a bit optimistic.
the Vinny-Taj love affair is enough to really doubt anything good about life.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
Taj does kind of look like he plays for the other team… maybe he just can’t resist VDN’s hair!
by 72-10 on Nov 6, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't mean it quite so literally
though thanks for sharing your ‘gay-dar’
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls haven't spewed anything but crap since '07 themselves.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So I'm watching the game now
And one of the first things Reggie miller says is to trust ur jump shot joakim Noah… Wat the hell
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 6, 2009 10:16 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
He is 80% from the field
on the Tornado jumper.
Odds say pass on it, but he seems to be taking the it in the first quarter when he’s given the space. I don’t notice any defenses coming up to play Noah though. They are still trying to get him to shoot that 15-16 footer.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as long as he is wide open
and the clock is winding down, i dont mind him taking that shot….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 6, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he didn't change is form, but it was reported that he worked on his jumper.
Obviously, someone gave him tips on how to keep his mechanics consistent enough so that he can make The shots.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I see as this teams new weakness
are their guard play on offense. Given that their best guard (and player) is still trying to catch up from being sidelined most of the preseason and fish playing full time in a new postion, I feel that their will only be improvement on that end.
Meanwhile, Noah, Deng and Thomas and are playing better then ever. Noah especially. He doesn’t look much different, but the muscle and game shape in concert with his new comfort level with scoring has changed the complexity of this team.
IF our guards recover (and I just can’t see how they won’t barring injury) then as a team we will be much more balanced and improved.
by gman2849 on Nov 6, 2009 10:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think Salmons will come around and shoot better. His touch is looking a little better but his three point shooting needs to be more consistent and I believe it will in time. He could have sealed the deal with that late three which he missed pretty badly but I kinda wanna blame that on nerves. It almost looked like he had adrenaline rush with that shot and it just took off of his hand and nailed the back iron.
I actually was happy with Hinrich last night. He didn’t settle for too many jumpers and attacked the rim. He used to be pretty good at penetrating and I’d love to see him do that more instead of settling for a 15 footer. Maybe he gets a foul you never know but somebody needs to take that role when Rose is out. He just has to stop turning the ball over.
I’d like to see Rose take more threes in the flow of the offense. I think it’s important that he develops that. His shot isn’t that bad. Of course late in games I’d want him doing his thing driving to the hoop.
Pargo you can usually tell what his night will be like from his first shot. If he bricks it you might as well keep him on the bench.
I think the guard play will get better.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The poor shooting
has to be addressed with drives to the hoop. Deng and Salmons have to attack the rim. They’re going to get fouled, but here is where they need to have Tyrus on the floor. Once the defense collapses to deny Salmons and Deng the rim they should be finding the cutting Tyrus for the easy alley oop.
We’re forcing up a lot of jump shots early in the clock when we should be moving the basketball until a lane opens up to drive.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Only Rose, Curt and Miller even look to make those types of plays
That’s another problem. The perimeter players (Deng, Salmons) aren’t great shooters, or great passers!
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 6, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Feel Sorry For Tyrus But The This Unit Will Be Really Good.
If you think about it-If the Bulls are getting wins facing good teams what happens when Salmons comes around and the Bulls finally get a system going or go on a tear????
by SharksFan91 on Nov 6, 2009 11:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
am i the only one
and maybe it was just me, or maybe i smoked a little too much, but man what the hell was lebron doing all night?
i know he put up good numbers – but he looked so out of it -
that last second lay up? he went right in there looking for the foul – not even going up strong for the shot – sports are fixed
something is up in cleveland
by markoni22 on Nov 6, 2009 11:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He was coasting.
It seems like most of the higher ranked teams are doing it this year, though the Celtics forgot the memo. LeBron…he’s a one man show. Maybe he was hoping it would stay close enough that he only had to start paying attention in the last quarter and save himself for later games. He need to think of the full season after all. If he has to win all of the games for his team then he should hope he doesn’t have to go all out for a middling team like the Bulls. Of course that didn’t work out for him well last night. He should have paid at least enough attention to win.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 6, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Lebron is a idiot, He gave the ref this look at the end of the game like the ref had explaining to do.
I’d have told Lebron, “Son, you travel your a— off, you hook, and that last move of your was weak, what the hell am I supposed to do…….?”
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 6, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You'd make a superb referee
:)
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not sure the union would let him in.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i know
he was clearly just expecting a foul call without even trying.
he didn’t even say anything to the ref at the end, just gave him that ridiculous face. my bf was laughing his ass off at him (after not having watched most of the game, lol).
i at least appreciate that some of the announcers call him out for traveling though.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 6, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There was some comment from him afterwards about how Joakim jumped into him
I don’t remember which show I watching, but they were laughing about that while showing Joakim going straight up and Lebron jumping sideways.
And then there was Mike Brown with his whole “I guess I have to review the rules on what a blocking foul is.” Any hope they get fined for criticizing the refs, or do you think they kept it just inside the acceptable range?
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Nov 6, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lebron's comments
while stupid, i don’t think would get a fine. brown’s, i dunno.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Nov 6, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cavs should be careful
It’s one thing to rip refs in the season, but it’s week two. The Cavs aren’t looking so good. The refs aren’t their problem.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
James went straight down the side of the key, planted his left foot on the block...
…and jumped into Noah. Best no-call I’ve seen in awhile. I think that call is made for even “good” offensive players 90% of the time at the end of the game.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its ridiculous
the guy goes up expecting the whistle to get blown cause he throws the ball and flails his arms and makes a loud noise
it really was pathetic, go up hard, or take a jump shot, your lebron james, you should be looking to win the game like a man – not pansy into the lane and hope to get to the line
anyway – cavs look like crap
by markoni22 on Nov 6, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish a media person would have asked:
“Well, the ball on the Bulls shot did clearly hit the rim, so they should have been able to keep that ball. I guess it all evens out, huh? Unless you think you should get special treatment…”
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was trying to take over in the 4th
He created his own defensive assignments(yay team building) and he was running the point forward possessions down the stretch.
Any time it is close I always fear that this Lebron will show up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 6, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but did you watch the Pistons' defense?
There was never anyone on help side. Granted he made some tough fade aways but seriously
you might as well not even play defense on him if you don’t stop his drive.
by SoulEater7 on Nov 6, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This game looks better the second time around
I was so amazed we won I watched the last five minutes three times and the second half again. If I was going to bet on last night’s game I would have put my money on Cleveland in a heartbeat. I was certain that LeBron would take over the game in the fourth period. I did not thiink we shot the ball well and could not tell if our defense was that good or Cleveland just played a terrible game.
After watchiing the game multiple times I thought our defense really did a great job clogging up the middle. Deng was terrific at moving his feet to stay with LeBron. Our length was a real problem for Cleveland. Despite my yearing for Ben Gordon to hit a three in the last two minutes to ice the game I also thought we would not have held Cleveland to not scoring the last minute if Ben was playing. I remember last year multiple times we would score and the other team would quickly score on us. We really are a better defensive team. Gibson also rotated well cutting off the lane multiple times preventing LeBron from getting to the hoop. When was the time we were up by one with over a minute to go, didn’t score and won the game?
3 – 2 is better than I anticipated 5 games in. SA, Mia away , Bos away and Cle away is one hell of a hill to climb. Let me enjoy this for at least until after the Cha game.
by chgobr on Nov 6, 2009 12:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I doubt BG would have been playing Lebron
And it’s not like he was looking to pass it, so I don’t see how it matters. Unless you’re talking about the rest of the game, to which I also disagree because
1. Anthony Parker isn’t that tough to defend
2. BG’s an underrated defender and could have kept up as well as Fish
3. Salmons isn’t as good of a defender as people play him up to be, he’s just tall.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In other news aka positive...
The Bulls are alone in first place in their division!!!
When was the last time that happened?
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 6, 2009 12:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's been a while....
and I’ll enjoy them being in first place while it lasts!
by kozzer on Nov 6, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Bulls season
will be like a Miller drive.
Nononononono, how the fuck did they pull that off?
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 6, 2009 10:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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