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The Time is Now to Trade Deng

Luol Deng is playing his best basketball in 3 years.  He appears healthy, confident and fully recovered from whatever plagued him the last two years.  Thus, there is no better time to trade Luol than now.  His value will never be higher.  He will never acquit himself better than this.  If he has 10 more healthy games, trade him to the highest bidder and never look back.  It could be the difference between being mediocre for the next 5 years and being a contender.

Star-divide

Here are a few reasons to trade Deng -

 

1.  He is a bad fit next to Rose (and James/Wade/Bosh).  Luol Deng, basketball wise, is an odd duck.  He is a small forward who cannot shoot 3's, cannot drive to the basket, and cannot post up.  He is a slasher and mid range shooter.  Though his overall game has improved, he has not developed anything new since he has been in the NBA.  This is Luol Deng.  And as the Bulls are currently constructed, he doesn't fit. 

Rose needs to play with guys who can shoot 3's.  And if we are looking to add James/Wade/Bosh - those guys need 3 pointer shooters to play with as well.  Deng as a 3rd option doesn't make sense with Rose and a top tier free agent, because he isn't a reliable shooter to spread the floor.  He is a very tough fit next to Wade or James, potentially better with Bosh, but still not ideal.  His presence clogs the lane.  Deng would be much better playing with a power forward who can shoot, but outside of signing Dirk, I don't see how he fits with the Bulls past this season.

2.  He makes too much money under the financial realities imposed by JR.   If the Bulls spent like the Knicks, Lakers, Nuggets or Blazers are willing to spend, there would be less impetus to move Deng.  But the Bulls do not.  And Deng as potentially your 4th best starter (assuming we sign a max free agent and Rose/Noah continue to improve) makes too much money.  Deng's salary may potentially force the Bulls to rid themselves of Hinrich, Salmons, Tyrus and eventually one day Noah.  He simply isn't enough of a difference maker to take up as much cap space as he does when the Bulls are unwilling to go into the luxury tax.  The Bulls are forced to spend more wisely, and I don't know if paying Noah, Rose and Deng big money makes the Bulls anything other than average.  

3.  His value will never be higher.  Never.  If Deng gets injured again, the Bulls are back to square one with him.  His contract becomes an absolute albatross, and he eats up cap space for the next 5 years.  Right now Deng is playing inspired ball.  I wish him all the best health.  But even if he remains healthy, I still think he will eventually have to go.  His game is simply too limited to play next to Rose and Noah.  He hasn't showing any signs of getting better. 

4,  Trading Deng frees up cap space for 2010.  No single move could do more now and in the future.  Unlike Salmons, there is no chance he opts out.  Unlike Hinrich, his contract isn't declining.  Deng makes big money and letting him go would be a clear signal that the Bulls are serious about attracting a Wade, Bosh or LBJ.  Letting Deng go means the Bulls could come in to 2010 with Tyrus, Salmons and Hinirch as a supporting cast to surround a superstar, instead of just Deng.  Going forward, each of those contracts would be easier to move for a player who fits better and each of those players has the potential to have as big impact on the court as Deng does.

It is time for Deng to go.

Send him to Golden State for A. Randolph and Maggette, to Portland for Rudy and expiring contracts, to Houston for McGrady, or to Utah for Boozer. The Bulls should try to get a young player on a rookie deal and expirings, but the exact players are inconsequential.  The fact of the matter is that Deng isn't part of a future with Rose and his contract and play don't make him a good fit next to a top tier free agent like James, Wade or Bosh.  His presence may force the Bulls to get rid of productive vets (Salmons/Hinrich) and talented young players like Tyrus and Noah.  Lets go all in for 2010 and trade a player who could potentially hinder the plan while we still can.

Poll
Is this the right time to trade Luol Deng?
Yes, get what you can while you can.
228 votes
No. He is the future.
58 votes

286 votes | Poll has closed

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Thank you!Thank you!Thank you!

If they can move both Deng and Hinrich that would be a huge success! That would free up enough money to sign a Top 2010 and possibly bring back Tyrus Thomas and maybe even a lower tier FA.

Then you have Rose,Noah,Tyrus, Johnson, Gibson, 2 draft picks as your base.

The problem is everyone is gunning for 2010 and finding a team to take their contracts might be hard.

But if the Bulls could move these contacts I would feel so good about the future!

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 22, 2009 6:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I would only trade Deng for a better player at the 3,

or a 2 or 4 (e.g. Chris Bosh) that is a long term starter that fits with Noah and Rose.

"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith

by Granny Waiters on Nov 22, 2009 6:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What kind of pool is that??!!
  1. Yes, get what you can while you can.
  2. No. He is the future.

Those are not the only options. I think Deng is a good player and it would be insane trade him for nothing. I don’t think he is The Future. However I would agree trading him but “get what you can” is just absurd.

by JustAnotherFan on Nov 26, 2009 5:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng isnt a major problem

And ive been loving his play, but i think everyone should be in agreement (including you GarPaxDorf) everyone on this team is tradeable except for Rose and i suppose noah (so long as he continues to get better). If we can land a gerald wallace for deng it frees up some money while adding alot more defense and athleticism. If we are aiming for bosh, well bosh gives us everything deng gives us (mid range shooting, rebounding) with higher efficiency, greater leadership, greater potential and just greater ability overall.

Do i like deng, yes…would i love to keep him around this team sure..but if i have a chance to get a stud now and save money for 2010, i trade deng immediately..

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Nov 22, 2009 7:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rose is tradeable

But it would take a ridiculous amount of talent, not just potential for talent.

by chapuforyou on Nov 23, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We have Pargo

So trading Rose wouldn’t be a huge deal

Where have you gone Dalibor Bagaric, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you

by RussBus65 on Nov 24, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree 100% with the reasoning, but I agree with the conclusion

I don’t think Deng is a particularly poor fit with Rose, for example. Not if we’ve got a very good 2 who can create space. However, we no longer have that…

But the big point I agree with and the one that makes all the difference is the fact that I think Lou’s a big time injury risk.

It’s always tough to trade a player like that when he’s playing well, because he’s undoubtedly a good and valuable player. But this team just really doesn’t operate with the sort of margin for error to allow paying a guy $11M a year on an contract the league won’t insure.

That’s the bottom line, injury. Because without the injury issue, we could get far enough under the cap next year more easily by trading Kirk and/or Salmons, I’d think.

by Sports2 on Nov 22, 2009 7:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

By the way, here's a three way trade idea

Hinrich, Deng to Portland
Miller, Jerome James to Houston
TMac, Rudy Fernandez, Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, Joel Pryzbilla, Jeff Pendergraph to the Bulls

1- Rose, Blake, Hunter
2- TMac, Rudy, Pargo
3- Salmons, TMac, Outlaw (he’s out for several months with an injury), JJ
4- Tyrus, Taj, Pendergraph
5- Noah, Pryzbilla, Gray

We subtract Deng and Hinrich ($20.4M) from next year’s cap and add Rudy, Przy and Pendergraph who are on the books for $8.8M. So we get a net increase of $11.6M in cap space. Plus we get two actually useful players to round out next year’s roster, and a prospect who might help.

That deal would guarantee us max cap space (and then some) even if Salmons decided not to opt out.

by Sports2 on Nov 22, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

would be toom much for blazers

take away pryzbilla

Trade for Luis Amundson!!Do it KP!!

by CroRupt on Nov 22, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Joel P is one of the Blazers most important players. Oden should be getting more minutes

but Pryz is so good that they split minutes. I can’t see them dealing him, especially since they don’t really need Hinrich or Deng.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 22, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Taj G is one of the Bulls most important players. Tyrus should be getting more minutes

but Taj is so good that they split minutes. I can’t see them dealing him.

by Sports2 on Nov 22, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Joel P is so much better than Taj that this comment is laughable.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 22, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Recced times one MILLION.

I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.

by Prevenge on Nov 22, 2009 11:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning

Yes Joel is way better than Taj, but that only underscores the point. Even when you’ve got a good player playing behind a better, younger player, it’s pretty crazy to be holding up the better, younger player and treating the older, worse player as some kind of untouchable building block.

by Sports2 on Nov 22, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, they absolutely need Hinrich or Deng

The paroxysms you seem coming from Blazers fans these days are because.

1. Andre Miller is a shitty fit next to Roy.
2. Roy doesn’t like playing SF and thus, they have difficulty getting Rudy on the floor for the minutes he deserves.

Other things being equal, I think a Kurt-Roy-Deng 1-2-3 punch would be a great fit for the Blazers.

by Sports2 on Nov 22, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They have Webster/Batum at the 3 spot…I think they are fine rolling with those two that they aren’t gonna want to take Deng’s contract. I wouldn’t.

by C Smoove on Nov 23, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Without Pryzbilla, Oden fouls out every game before halftime. He's pretty much untouchable.

Also, we all know Pritchslap is not immune to mancrushes on “his guys.”

The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.

by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2009 7:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Like these guys said, no way Portland gives up Joe P

but I’d still do the trade without him, just for the expiring contracts. Than we’d just play Gray 10 minutes a night as a backup C.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 22, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

STOP WITH T-MAC

HE SUCKS!!! whats with the fascination with this guy? hes STILL not even on the court. you wanna pay 20 mil for THAT GUY? CMON MAN!

by njbullsfan09 on Nov 22, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

his contract is up.

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 22, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No,

I want to use the 20 mil his expiring contract would give us to sign Chris Bosh.

"Make good basketball plays!"
-VDN

by penguin1 on Nov 22, 2009 8:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they don't get it.

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 22, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

2010 cap space.

whats with the fascination with this guy?

"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith

by Granny Waiters on Nov 22, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

lol

it’s such a hard concept. 2010>Deng or Kurt.

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 22, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

touche

sounded like the plan was to keep him, not for a salary dump. if thats the case, im on board.

by njbullsfan09 on Nov 23, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Forget how he plays. His $23 Mil comes off the books.

Hell, it might be better if he can’t play and the Bulls are able to buy him out for cheaper than what he makes.

But if he can play then he INSTANTLY makes the team better this season.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 22, 2009 11:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I feel you're on the right track with regard to a three-way

but I would look to a team that is in financial distress like NO. For example, and I stress “for example,” NO trades Paul to Portland, Portland trades Fernandez to the Bulls, and the Bulls and Portland trade expiring contracts and decent players to NO.

by hlac on Nov 22, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"If the Bulls spent like the Knicks, Lakers, Nuggets or Blazers are willing to spend..."

Gotta love self-imposing limits. They’re building the Atlanta Hawks with the fanbase and profit margins of the Lakers or Celtics.

The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.

by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2009 7:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

They would be lucky to be the Hawks right now.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 22, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Hawks have to be good... they can't get people to come to the game.

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 22, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The situations are pretty similar.

3 talented youngsters who if they could “get it” pushes them over the top, with a couple of savvy vets that no one talks about, but can get the job done and take over a game here or there. Cheap front office, questionable head coach that the team no doubt plays hard for. And a fanbase that’s split between the “Oh I’m just glad they’re watchable” and “Where is this all leading to”

Yeah, the Hawks are very good and have been building to this point, but in a year who’d be surprised if Atlanta didn’t have Horford signed to an extension and Joe Johnson was on the Bulls or Knicks.

The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.

by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2009 11:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I LOVE this idea

I can only hope that the front office has the same foresight. Unfortunately they’re just horrible at making moves like this. You know, smart ones.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 22, 2009 8:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Considering his defense has been superb as of late

I still think you gotta sell high on Deng as well, but if they don’t, I’m content . . . as long as he don’t get injured again

by Option27 on Nov 22, 2009 8:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The thing about Deng

is when healthy, he’s one of only 30-40 players in the league who’s actually worth that contract. It’s rare for a 24 year old to give you 35+ mpg, good to very good defense and rebounding, and average offense.

Should we trade Deng? Yeah, always sell high, but only if we can get a very good player in return. Boozer and McGrady don’t fit that definition. Randolph probably doesn’t either.

by YaoPau on Nov 22, 2009 8:15 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Deng is one of 30-40 players worth what they are being paid?

I don’t think so. He is a good player. But you have to project forward. Noah and Rose are going to command big deals. Is locking your team in with Rose, Noah, Max FA, and Deng guarantee you anything? Eventually, whether we sign Bosh/James or Wade, we are going to be trying to move the guy for pieces that fit better. If we never sign those guys, than this team will be locked into mediocrity.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 22, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I feel you. As you all know I KILL Deng around here. But...

…I gotta give him a lot of credit. Deng has come back and played well and he’s been worth every dime of his deal this season. But Smurf makes a great point about Deng not fitting with Rose (This is why I can’t understand for the life of me why people wanted to see Gordon go when in actuality he was the PERFECT backcourt mate for Rose).

Deng is nothing more than an above average player. And seeing as though he’s taking up about 20% of the cap space moving forward (You can’t have that much invested in a guy who is not one of the league’s best) the Bulls MUST move him in order to be sure they have the flexibility to keep Rose/Noah in the future and possibly make a run at one of the big guns.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 22, 2009 11:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I should say I don't want to salary dump Deng

but if you can get a good vet with a huge expiring contract (McGrady, Boozer, etc.) or a promising young player and expiring contracts (Randolph, Fernandez, etc.) than I think you have to make that move. This is about putting the best team on the court for 2010 and beyond.

The franchise has already shown its willing to take a step back to pursue 2010. It has made overtures that the team is going to be built around Rose. Well, lets go all in. The only thing the Bulls are risking is the chance to have a firmly mediocre team for the forseeable future.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 22, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think there are many FAs worth pursuing this offseason

I think getting a premier player will require a sign-and-trade, and Deng’s a great guy to package. I have no interest in clearing cap space to sign an Anthony Morrow or Luis Scola to start if it’s going to cost us Deng.

by YaoPau on Nov 22, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Are we already getting our excuses ready for GarPaxDorf? I’d like to see a better free agent class top to bottom than the one in 2010. If we don’t land someone who improves this team than JR should clean house because Pax and Gar don’t know what the hell they are doing.

I didn’t know the fear of losing Deng was so strong with you. There is a saying – you got to spend money to make money. You have to take a chance sometime. Or else the Bulls will be stuck in post Jordan mediocrity for a long, long time.

I also don’t believe that getting a premier player will require a sign and trade. I think if Lebron leaves Cleveland he will leave outright. Bosh has a stronger chance of requiring a sign and trade, but when it is all said and done, Bosh is clearly ready to leave Canada and will do so to be in a big market. If the team he goes to is attractive enough, than I think he will hedge his bets on salary.

But regardless, that all is dependent on any of these teams accepting a sign and trade with Deng as the feature piece. I find it hard to believe that Toronto or Cleveland are going to accept Deng over other bids in a sign and trade. Are we going to include Noah? Would anyone want Hinrich? If guys want to come to Chicago they will come here. And since we didn’t resign Gordon, our best chance to entice someone is with tons of cap space and a clear plan for the future. We need to make sure we have the cap space to get them.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 22, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

rec

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 22, 2009 11:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Starting with himself.

If we don’t land someone who improves this team than JR should clean house

"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith

by Granny Waiters on Nov 23, 2009 12:30 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

A sign and trade is more likely...

Or at least as likely as an outright signing…as most of us know, a sign and trade allows the star to get much more money in the form of larger raises per year and an extra guaranteed year…Shawn Marion and Hedo Turkoglu were both sign and trades last Summer…Rashard Lewis was signed and traded…heck, even Joe Johnson was signed and traded from Phoenix to Atlanta…

I think a sign and trade is a better option for the Bulls, regardless of Deng, as they would not have to renounce their own free agents (Tyrus, etc) nor would they have to renounce the exceptions, which would then be used for adding role players…

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 23, 2009 8:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right, Deng + Tyrus + whatever

is the package to land a big name. With JJ, Taj, and a pick around 15th-20th we can also include, it gives us a shot.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The guy who is always injured and the guy losing playing time

to the 26 pick in the draft is just to package to land Lebron James…. I don’t think so.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 23, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well, not until YaoPau drops off his APM binder

the Cavs will think they’re ripping us off.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 23, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If anything, I'm getting more into it, be ready

We have the money to sign James as it is, so Smurf’s point about trading for James doesn’t matter. We don’t have a package for him now, we won’t have one if we trade Deng. Can we get Bosh for that package though? I think it’s possible.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

only if Tyrus has some hellacious months

I don’t think he’s valued around the league at all (no doubt anecdotal ‘reputation’ plays too big of a factor, but it does…), else the Bulls would’ve traded him already.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 23, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Will it take more to land a star?

I dunno. If the guy’s made up his mind to not re-sign, I think a team would be happy to get Deng, Tyrus, and a couple prospects in return. Here’s some other big trades…

Shaq was traded for Odom, Caron Butler, and a 1st. Seems like okay value, but Butler wasn’t much different than Tyrus at the time, which is why the Lakers traded him for Kwame a year later.

Vince Carter was traded in 2004 for basically two midround 1sts.

TMac was traded in 2004 for Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley.

The Garnett trade is still fresh in our minds, and obviously we aren’t giving up as much. But I think a Deng/Tyrus/Taj/2010 1st package would be competitive. Maybe I’m wrong.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but Butler had a way better reputation than Tyrus does now

Look at the Vince Carter trade, people said it was actually good return because of Courtney Lee, a 23 year old with a 10 PER. Why? because he started on a finals team. As said above: Tyrus lost his job to Taj Gibson.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 23, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They also traded Ryan Anderson away to make that trade.

Not the best trade in recent memory.

I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.

by Prevenge on Nov 23, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I'm not even sure what my own point is

just that I think GM’s still think of their job security first, and part of that (especially when trading the best player in the deal) is to get something back that you can sell. And nobody can sell Tyrus Thomas as a great haul right now.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 23, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think deng + tyrus/taj + 1st is appealing. None of those players have true star potential.
-The lakers in getting butler + odom + 1st, got a 25 year old all star PF, an intriguing star talented wing, and a draft pick (and at that time it was evident shaq was GOING to go)
-Steve Francis was an all star, cuttino an above average SG
-Garnett was traded for a plethora of young talent including a 22 year old PF who is a 20/10 guy now (however overrated)
-VC demanded out, so they had to take whatever they could get…

IF I WAS CHICAGO GM….
I’d look to move Deng for as much cap space as possible. Chicago is 1 of the few teams who have a legitimate chance at a tar free agent. I doubt Dwade or Lebron will go to chicago… but Bosh, Amare, joe johnson are VERY realistic possibilites.

If one of those can be landed, now chicago becomes a very intriguing option for a nice 3rd option type player to come @ an MLE… perhaps a guy like T-Mac?

Rose, Tmac, Salmons, Bosh, Noah? Sounds like a title contender to me

by tafkasam on Nov 29, 2009 2:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha

I wouldn’t call it a “fear of losing Deng”, it’s more “Deng’s 24 and very good when healthy, if you’re dumping him for cap space you better be sure you can get a better FA.” I’m not.

Chances are, we already have the cap space to sign LeBron/Wade/Bosh outright. If we get the feeling Salmons will opt in, we can trade Kirk for an expiring to guarantee we have that cap space, as Kirk won’t be a part of the team when Rose develops.

But Deng is a core piece, so trading him to open up $10+ million of additional cap space doesn’t make sense to me. What can that additional space get us that’s better than Deng? Do you think we’re going to get Wade AND LeBron? Or would you rather we get a couple grade C+ free agents for depth?

The 2010 free agent class is all-world up top, and after that, there’s not much. I get the buy low, sell high thing. But it’s not “buy low, sell high regardless of what you’re getting in return”.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope it's as easy as you say to just dump Hinrich for exprings

and unfortunately that would have to be determined by February, which I don’t see them doing. Also I never see them trading Kirk Hinrich ever for anything.

But in principle you’re right: this 2010 plan already stinks given the need to jettison Gordon and Tyrus to even get in the discussion. Now they have to trade Deng as well, just for a chance at Wade/Bosh/LeBron?

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 23, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, I've quietly prepared myself

for Hinrich’s next Bulls extension through 2018.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Hinrich’s next Bulls extension through 2018.

"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith

by Granny Waiters on Nov 23, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The question

is Deng at his current value and production, with his injury history and salary, worth more than Tyrus, Salmons and Hinrich? Because if the cap drops to $50 million, that is who you are going to have to give up to sign a max guy.

And again I don’t think you are looking ahead enough. When Noah and Rose are looking for big extensions, Deng will be making $12-$14 million a year. He’s worth that? Potentially the 4th best player on the team, can’t earn that type of money. I think if you can dump him for a young prospect (Rudy, Randolph) and cap space, you do it.

Because even if you don’t get a 2010 free agent, do you still want to be locked in with Deng for $70 million over the next 5 years? If you don’t sign a 2010 free agent aren’t you looking at being mediocre for a long, long time anyway, with or without Deng?

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 23, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng > Tyrus + Salmons + Hinrich

I think you’re underrating Deng’s defense. APM has him at +3, making him one of the best SF’s in the league. Add his average offense, and at 24 he’s a good piece for a long time. Guys like Tyrus, Salmons, Hinrich you can pick off free agency any given year.

Is he worth $12-14 million? With his injury history, probably not. But a valuable piece is a valuable piece, and dumping one for cap space means giving up sure piece for an uncertain whoknows.

Deng’s contract, though, doesn’t really matter as long as he remains somewhat healthy. Once you’re over the cap, you’re over. We’ve got a year and a half till that happens, and I want as many longterm pieces as possible. Right now, Deng’s one of the three.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Once you’re over the cap, you’re over.

Yeah, but the tax…

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 23, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My thinking is

if Jerry never goes into the tax, then who cares about any future plan. We will never compete. I happen to think/hope he will go into the tax (having a nationally recognized star in Derrick Rose should help persuade him), at which point the couple million we’re overpaying Deng will keep us from signing future Pargos.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think Boozer or McGrady are very good players?

The question with all three of them is their ability to stay on the court and their contract. But if I were just gonna pick those guys to go out and try to win a particular game with (like, assume we’re sitting there picking teams on a playground), I’d pick them before I’d pick Deng.

by Sports2 on Nov 22, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

McGrady hasn't been good in awhile

TS% under .500 since the ‘05-’06 season, that’s five seasons ago. Obviously he’s a great penetrator and passer, so he’s probably slightly better offensively than Deng, but Deng’s the better defender and is six years younger and will probably cost less going forward.

Boozer’s probably as good as Deng, and I like his fit with Rose/Noah better, but he’s 28 and just as injury prone. He’ll probably command at least the same contract as Deng. I’d rather have Deng till he’s 28 than Boozer till he’s 32.

I think Rose/Deng/Noah/QualityFA is a very good team. We’re a .500 team now without Rose (basically) or the FA. Add two premier players, and we compete.

by YaoPau on Nov 22, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Only we're not really, truly a .500 team. The Bulls Pythagorean Win% is .33 right now.

They are playing over their heads.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 22, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure we are

(1) Salmons has been terrible.
(2) Rose has played below the level of an average PG.
(3) The combined record of our opponents is 88-65 this year. That’s a very difficult schedule.
(4) We’ve played 5 home games vs. 7 away games.

Add all those together, and over 82 games, assuming Salmons plays semi-well and Rose plays as an average PG, it’s not as simple as a 3-variable formula.

by YaoPau on Nov 22, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Salmons will continue to be terrible - he's not very good.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 22, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Have you been hanging out with Dils?

Salmons won’t shoot 34% from the field all year. I agree he’s not a good player, but there’s a difference between regular ol’ mediocre Salmons and the pure crap he’s given us so far.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He might not shoot 34%, but he'll still be a load of crap.

I think in the aggregate, even if he starts making shots (I’m dubious… he’s just not a catch-and-shoot guy), he’ll still be pretty close to as bad as he is right now, because he’s playing over his head on defense right now. He’s not this good on that end, just as he’s not quite this bad on offense.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 23, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is he playing well defensively?

I honestly don’t know. I’ve always looked at him as a good man defender (he did well on Pierce in the playoffs for example), but crappy once you factor in the team aspects. From what I’ve seen, he looks like the same guy.

by YaoPau on Nov 23, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What makes you think he's playing over his head on defense?

He’s always been known as a good on-ball defender who usually guards the opponent’s best wing.

by Illini15 on Nov 23, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's traditionally a crap team defender, and he looks like he's been slightly better

in that respect, at least to me. However, he’s been getting murdered when forced to guard the Ray Allen types that run him off screens all night. He’s not fast enough for that and that isn’t changing at all this year. He’s better suited to guard 3s.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 23, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can you explain how a team who has won more than half of its games...

is not “truly a .500 team.”? I am not a stat guy, but I thought that was sort of the definition….

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 23, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It means they aren't playing like you'd expect a .500 team to play.

They have been lucky to win almost all their close games and gotten blown out in a not insignificant number of the losses. This bodes poorly for their prospects for future success.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 23, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree the Bulls are an awful team.

Their blow outs have been on the road against the likes of Boston, Denver, LA, the scrubs of the NBA. Obviously, the injuries to TT and Rose have not played a factor in any of the Bull’s losses. The Bulls are clearly destined for the lottery as a 6-6 record though this easy portion of their schedule does not portend greatness.

by MrBungle on Nov 23, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even factoring in strength of schedule, they are about 20th out of 30 teams

in the league. That’s not good enough to make the playoffs. I don’t get why this is so hard to understand.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 23, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, we should probably trade him

although I don’t really agree with the reasoning. He can shoot threes…he just doesn’t.

by Stacey_Is_King on Nov 22, 2009 8:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I can write symphonies

I just choose not to. The world is missing out on some beautiful music

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 22, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

It's still a problem

just not as big a problem, and more easily fixed.

by Stacey_Is_King on Nov 22, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Loul Deng best move is the worst shot in basketball.

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 22, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I couldn’t of said it better myself.

Deng is playing great this year, but time and again he just settles for that one foot behind the 3 pt arc shot. It’s like he’s playing in an era with no 3 point line. He drains those shots at a pretty good % compared to most players, but most players should not even think about taking that shot. Most that do try to hit 3s when they can as well.

If Deng were a little more aggressive to the hole and a little more selective with outside shots, he would have a chance to be a solid all star if he keeps playing consistently solid defense.

I wouldn’t blink an eye of we made a good trade that involved Deng, but in the meantime, I just hope he plays a little smarter on the offensive end and does not get hurt.

by RyPac13 on Nov 22, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Minny seems to have grown tired of Al

We should ship Deng and Noah to Minny for big Al. I know a lot of people would not like trading Noah, but this deal does not get done with Deng and Tyrus. We could move Salmons to his natural SF spot and start Tyrus at PF next to Jefferson at the 5.

Homecoming

by illwill on Nov 22, 2009 11:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No way would I trade Noah for Big Al

I’m kind of down on Al. For being such a high volume shooting post player, he doesn’t score very efficiently. He is very weak defensively. And he is an injury risk. Maybe Deng straight up for Jefferson, but no way am I throwing in Noah.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 22, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think we can do better.

Noah is approaching untouchable status. Averaging about 13 and 13 right now. Jefferson is only averaging about 17 and 7 these days. Is he back fully from injury yet or is he still hurt? I think he’ll get better and when he and Love come back they’ll both be pretty good. But regardless, I think the Bulls can do better for Deng while he’s playing well.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 22, 2009 11:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give the Bulls credit in that they seem to be past the glorification of the 20/10 player.

Jefferson is a nice guy who works hard, but he’s been in the league since 2004. At some point he would have become a decent defender, or realized how to pass out of double teams, or taken a large leap in scoring efficiency.

Jefferson+Brewer for Deng+Tyrus is a conversation starter, but Joakim Noah is someone the Bulls will have no problem locking up to an extension (right?)

The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.

by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yea i think they will sign him up quick

hes gritty, he hustles, he plays defense, he tries hard every game, he might not be the best scorer but he works hard to get everyone involved, he understands that getting better is a PROCESS, yea…hes a bulls kind of guy…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Nov 23, 2009 12:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Al Jefferson is going to be this generation's Zach Randolph, minus the toxic personality and off-the-court issues.

He’s a low-post monster who doesn’t defend and doesn’t pass out of double teams. His 20 and 10 is usually a lot more hollow than the 20 and 10 of guys who get their teammates open looks by passing out of double teams (like Shaq in his prime).

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 23, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Reminds me of a former Bull.

Elton Brand.

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 23, 2009 8:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jefferson needs a good center opposite him

You won’t know how good he can be until you pair him with one.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Nov 23, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is that the same player or two?

Ramon Sessions is one of those.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Nov 23, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He might be if he was playing much

But so far they’re working hard on the Jonny Flynn turnover machine experiment.

From 82 games, I notice pretty obvious differences between Flynn/Jefferson lineups (the vast majority) and Sessions/Jefferson lineups.

Flynn-Brewer-Gomes-Jefferson-Pecherov has played 80 minutes and is 1-6. Points per possession are 1.07 for and 1.12 against.

Sessions-Brewer-Gomes-Jefferson-Pecherov has played 13 minutes and is 2-2. Points per possession are 1.26 for and 0.99 against.

You get a similar result if you compare Flynn-Ellington-Brewer-Gomes-Jefferson to Sessions-Ellington-Brewer-Gomes-Jefferson.

I’ll admit it reinforces my pre-existing notion that Flynn is not very good, and the usual caveats about the season being young and Flynn being a rookie apply. but that’s really not the point here. The question is what does Al Jefferson need, and it seems pretty clear to me he needs a PG capable of getting him the ball more than anything else.

by Sports2 on Nov 23, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So trading Noah for him makes even less sense, he's the perfect compliment to Noah and

vice versa.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Nov 23, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Seeing past the glorification of the 20/10...

Seems to be an organizational philosophy of the Reinsdorf era…

The Bulls have had one 20/10 in the past 20 years, and he was quickly shipped out of town (with good reason, as he was the worst 20/10 guy this side of Zach Randolph).

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 23, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rose, Noah and Deng are the only players that needs to stay.

Get rid of Salmons, get rid of Hinrich, and get rid of Thomas.

  

by Super-Structure on Nov 23, 2009 2:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I would package

Deng/Hinrich/1st rounder to Tor for Bosh

And

Salmons/Tyrus to Hou for T Mac.

Then we have

Rose
T Mac
Taj
Bosh
Noah

You have JJ and Pargo as your guards off the bench.
You have Miller and Gray as your back up bigs.

We’ll have a lot of cap room next year, and then we could sign Wade/Joe Johnson. And then go over the cap to re-sign Bosh.

by Edicus2288i on Nov 23, 2009 12:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

those moves would make you the GM of the century.

However I don’t know if the other parties would be willing to go along.

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 23, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on...

You know those teams exist to develop talent to trade to the Bulls…

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 23, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You guys have got to be the worst homers I've ever seen.

Nobody, I repeat NOBODY, is going to take on Deng’s contract, not even for a bunch of expirings. The Bulls severly overpayed for him and have to live with him, at least till he becomes an expiring contract himself. Do you realize the state of the league right now? The salary cap is LOWERING this offseason, and most teams are going to be using whatever capspace they have on the FA classes of the next two seasons, they arent looking to add a 3rd option for 15 mill a year.

And please for the love of god stop packaging Deng and Hinrich in trades together for All Stars, lets get realistic here.

by brose on Nov 23, 2009 2:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

let us dream!

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Nov 23, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You gotta be joking

Are you telling me there is no market for an unathletic small forward who can’t create his own shot or shoot a three and who is making 12 mil/year? Surely, you jest.

by MrBungle on Nov 23, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't it way past the time to trade Deng?

You kinda gotta keep him now.

He was a hot trade rumor, we all wanted him, a year or two ago.

But now?

*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

by staylost on Nov 23, 2009 6:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow

I’m kind of shocked that it’s 78-22 to trade him….I mean this summer no, I’d be shocked if it wasn’t that, but so far this many games in, Deng’s been good.

Still I said trade him for all the reasons you stated.

Trade Deng and Miller for TMAC and Scola

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Nov 24, 2009 3:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Trading deng straight up for another play will not happen

No team will trade a better 3 for deng straight up…And adding miller doesnt sweeten the deal at all. Also, can we all please STOP asking for trades to get Tmac. He is terrible. He wouldnt bring nothing to the bulls that they dont have already. Tmac sucks major donkey dong…..Hasnt been in 82 games a season his whole career, always hurt, always some issue….NO TMAC TRADES

"All they do is mock me, just like they did the fat fellow. All the time mocking, mocking, mocking, mocking all the time! Now, it is Babu's turn to mock "---Babu Bhatt in the Seinfeld Finale Part 2

by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 24, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I always love to here how all these opposing players suck

when the Bulls don’t have anyone better. T-Mac’s career low PER of 16.3 in an injury plagued season would be the 3rd highest on the Bulls right now. If he returns to his 07-08 form he would have the second highest PER on the team, behind only Noah.

by Basketball Smurf on Nov 24, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We want Tmac's contract

and to be free from Deng’s to pursue any 3 we want over the Summer.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Nov 24, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The main reason I think this won't happen

is that Houston has approximately 50 million SF’s.

I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.

by Prevenge on Nov 25, 2009 3:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Imagine if the Bulls got Wade from the big FA extravaganza. Then they would have not three close-range scorers at the perimeter spots and not one 3 point shooter. Team would be creating a huge challenge for itself and huge advantage for opposing defenses by having virtually no 3 point threats. If they did get Wade, someone like a Chris Mullins-type at sf would be nice. A very good jump shooter, passer, and ball handler. Seems to me like such a guy should not be impossible to find…

by boobie trap on Nov 24, 2009 10:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Warriors fan LOL

under what circumstance would we give randolph up for deng? We declined trading for bosh or amare cause we didn’t wanna package him. Not saying those deals would have gotten done, but warriors refused to include randolph. I’m not even a big randolph fan (I think he lacks the real bball iq to ever be as great as his potential) but most warrior fans think he’ll be the next garnett/odom.

However, as bulls… would u consider maggette + expirings for deng? if it saved you say 4 mil in cap room next year?

by tafkasam on Nov 29, 2009 2:15 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

yes!

''My favorite player growing up was Kevin Garnett and he's now my least favorite player. ''-Joakim Noah

by SoulEater7 on Dec 1, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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