Lakers 108, Bulls 93
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 8:54 AM CST
368 comments
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Chicago | 96.0 | 96.9 | 48.2% | 14.3 | 21.3 | 15.6 |
| LA Lakers | 112.5 | 48.9% | 19.6 | 29.2 | 12.5 |
Just too big, too good. They actually fought with them for a lot of the 1st half, but when the Lakers started hitting 3-pointers it was one team they couldn't stink out. ANALYSIS!
I did actually think Rose looked more sprightly, a lot of close finishes didn't happen and he was really going up against the trees. And John Salmons had a decent game. And Noah still rules.
But yeah, the Lakers are the ideal. Though when I see the Bulls walk in to their arena and get waxed I can't help but wonder if Bulls braintrust actually sees the Lakers as an ideal, or instead laugh at their overextended payroll.
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Even though he wasn't finishing very well
I was very happy to see Rose actually attack the basket.
And Tyrus can’t get back soon enough, Taj is starting to get seriously exposed.
Taj sucks. No, really. He's god awful.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
Did you hear the TNT crew talk about missing Tyrus at all?
I don’t recall them mentioning Tyrus Thomas once last night.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
TNT crew has never been known for providing quality analysis.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Although the Collins/Albert team is TONS better than Miller/Harlan
I can’t stand listening to Reggie talk about basketball. Sometimes I wonder how he was ever any good — it just seems like he knows so little about the game.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
For me it's not that Reggie has no clue about the game, it's that he's fucking obnoxious.
I also can’t stand his voice.
I wish I knew who made the decision for TNT that he’d be a good addition, so that I could slap the shit out of that person.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe obnoxious is a better description
and it’s not so much that he knows nothing about the game itself, it’s that he makes wild, bold statements about players that are just utterly untrue. Stuff like last year when he said Tyrus Thomas should easily be averaging a triple-double in points, rebounds and blocks.
Or he’ll say something like, “the Bulls really miss the interior toughness and post game that Drew Gooden provided last year” or “Salmons has been their most consistent player in 2009.”
I understand that he has to talk about teams he doesn’t watch every night, but the hyperbole and level of (in)accuracy in his comments is astounding.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
I think he probably understands x's and o's, but he doesn't pay attention to
the league and just spits out whatever pops into his head.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Word.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Mark jackson is known for saying stupid shit too.
“Iverson is the perhaps pound for pound the greatest we have ever seen”
Or “Leon Powe reminds me of Dr. J” when he dunked in the finals
Haha, I forgot about that last comment
that was just ridiculous.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah....he really is annoying
so much so that if the Bulls aren’t playing or some marquee matchup, I won’t even watch the game he does. What bothers me more than anything is him wanting to get in on what’s normally reserved for the play-by-play guy. Guys like Harlan, Marv, or say a Gus Johnson can handle the colorful stuff. The audience just needs a competent subject matter analyst to help provide some basketball insight.
When he starts delving into the former, I want to throw up.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I love Harlan. He's got a great voice and gets excited at the right times. That's all you need in a color man.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
agreed
I think he’s definitely one of the better play by play guys. I was wondering if Rose Colored was talking about Harlan too. Btw I think Reggie is much better than Mark (Marc?) Jackson
I got no problem with Harlan, if fact I think he's great
I just hate Reggie. I also have a soft spot for Marv Albert because of all the classic Bulls games he called in the 90s. I will forever be able to hear him yelling “Kukoc!” during the rain of threes he put in during the Atlanta(?) series in ’98.
I actually like ESPN’s team with Jackson and Van Gundy on it a lot. More because of Van Gundy than Jackson though.
I also think Doug Collins is great, I feel like I learn something new (even something little) almost every time I watch an entire game he’s doing. Like last night when he was talking about how left-handed guys are better shot-blockers because most shooters are right-handed. I had never even thought about that before — brilliant stuff.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
gotcha
I definitely agree about Van Gundy and Collins. I think Jackson comes off worse because he is paired with Van Gunndy.
Hubie is the absolute best, though. If you added Hubie and Marv Albert it'd be the best combo EVAR.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
I totally forgot about Hubie. Hubie Brown is like Doug Collins “ceiling” as a broadcaster, haha. But yes, a Hubie Brown + Marv Albert combo could entertain me all day long. I’d watch a bunch of old Clippers games if they were calling them.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Fail.
I liked Hubie… but he’s slowly become the John Madden of basketball. Talks a lot, says nothing.
Blasphemy!
Charles Barkley is closer to the Madden of hoops, he just doesn’t actually call the games. I guess he’s like the Bradshaw of hoops.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
That's just not true.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
that man is a genius
hes the only who says something will happen next during a game. and the team will do exactly that on their next possession. he knows what to run, when to run..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
Oh come on
Dick Stockton is the runaway champion of the John Madden of basketball.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
In my opinion
Harlan > Hubie > Van Gundy > Albert > Collins > A Greased up Monkey > Miller > Jackson.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
by Cosmis on Nov 20, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't like comparing play-by-play guys with the color/analyst guys.
I’d go:
Hubie>Collins>Van Gundy>Jackson>dog shit>elephant shit>Miller
and
Harlan>Albert>Breen>Neil Funk
Stacey King’s awesome too, but not for bball knowledge. Just for general entertainment.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
I will say
You got this pretty close (Swap Hubie first, Van Gundy Second, Harlan 3rd) and that’s perfect….
I’d add in Ben Stein before Mark Jackson….he’s awful. I was hoping he’d get a coaching gig just to see him off the air, he’s not as annoying as Tim Tolbert was 4-5 years ago, but actually I prefered Tolbert when he wasn’t trying to be cheeky. Jackson adds nothing.
I liked him as a player too, but yeah that’s how I’d see it.
I hate Reggie Miller, but have to say he’s better (Even with a terrible voice)
Doug Collins did
For like 2 seconds and Marv didn’t add anything more.
Lakers fucking ruled yesterday, that was perfect bball….Bulls played well despite getting blown out, it’s just they were playing against a team on the ball, defensively and offensively, that was perfect bball. Gasol is amazing.
Was it just me
or was anyone finishing around the basket? Particularly in the 3rd, it seemed like we missed quite a few chances near the rim.
"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH
It didn't help that we didn't get any calls either
It’s hard to finish at the rim when you’re getting whacked in the head.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
rose got whacked a few times
"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH
good to see rose taking it to the hoop
and that he did hit 7 shots in a row…
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
Reinsdorf
laughing at the Lakers “Haha we are the true winners, look at their salary cap…”
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
In fairness...
when the Bulls had a transcendent talent like Kobe Bryant, they spent enough to build a championship team….six times.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 20, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
It sure helped that MJ had a below-market contract until the last two years . . .
And Pippen had a below-market contract the entire time he was here. The Bulls never really had a relatively high payroll until the 1996-97 season (and that was mostly because of MJ’s contract). They were making tons of money until then, and they’ve spent the last decade making tons of money with sellout crowds and some of the lowest payrolls in the league.
by Big D on Nov 20, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
A wrap up that didn't mention Luol Deng's spectacularly awful performance?
Ron Artest could have played the game and marketed Allure and his Michael Jackson tribute album last night because Luol Deng wasn’t in the building, but some dude that looked like him was on the floor wearing his #9.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
It wasn't meant to be comprehensive.
Luol against a huge physical SF…that’s a tough go.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
Ron Artest lit him up from the perimeter though
Deng’s defense last night must have been infected with Nocioni’s viral help when it’s not needed bug. I heard that’s communicable through man hugs.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
yeah but Noc helped whether necessary or not
don’t you think it was wise to help off a Artest when we have Noah/Taj against Bynum/Gasol? Not to mention helping when Kobe posted up, etc.
Artest hit a few, but usually that’s the right play to leave him alone to shoot.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, an Artest 3 with a late close out by Deng is a much lower percentage shot
than Gasol or Bynum destroying our big men in the post. Particularly Taj on Gasol. Poor Taj, he just had no chance. It was embarassing.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, if he makes a few jumpers it encourages him to start taking wild-ass shots
That’s probably going to be the only way to beat the Lakers this year.
Who was the coach
that said having Antoine Walker hit an early jumper made the coach smile, because he knew it would cause Walker to hoist bricks for the rest of the night?
Bulls rebuilding project
Enough is enough,Vinnie Del Negro, Brad Miller, John Salmons, Luol Deng, Jannero Pargo, Lindsay Hunter, Jerome James, Kurt Heinrich, this is the hand we are dealt after ten years removed from Championship baketball, this is supposed to be entertainment, but for me the circus left town not came to it. I am tired of being hoodwinked, bamboozled, with this dog & pony show, look at the other side of the United Center to find how a professional franchise is run(Blackhawks), and the difference is obvious. If you cannot do the job like everywhere else you should be fired. After watching how non-chalantly the Lakers just blew by the bulls and the lineup for coming back was rose,miller, heinrich,salmons, and deng, MY question is, this is a joke right, are we this stupid.
how dare you
speak ill of the legend that is Brad Miller?
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
by Cosmis on Nov 20, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I actually didn't think the Bulls played that badly
They played much better than they did against Milwaukee, for example. Noah is awesome, but Taj Gibson going up against the Lakers’ monster frontline was just sad. It really illustrated the differences between the two franchises. We’re depending on cheap overachieving late-first round draft picks, and the Lakers are relying on serious talent. When Lamar Odom is your sixth man, you have one hell of a team.
I agree, besides Rose having a bad first half...
But even when it seemed he was heating up and they were pushing for a comeback, they couldn’t get the lead under 16 at that point. Just too big, too good.
Again fail to show up against a contender
Agree with a lot of the comments above.
It seems like the Bulls have just enough talent to tease us with potential, but when it comes to playing true contenders during the regular season, they consistently fail to show up. This happened multiple times last year with the Celts and Lakers, if I recall correctly, along with a few notable others.
And yes, it absolutely makes you think that management doesn’t want to field the best team. They want to field the team that’s just good enough to be good sometimes.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
they beat the cavs on the road
i’ll fucking take it.
they hung in there for awhile in this game, but i didn’t see the game against the celts.
we just didn’t have the front line to be able to do anything in this game. taj against pau makes me sad lol.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
while i agree there
they only lost 2 games at home all of last season. getting a win at the Q isn’t easy.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
That's Mike Brown. He's clueless offensively. Kuester had them on track last year, but
now that he’s the head man in Detroit, Cleveland is back to being all sorts of disorganized on the offensive end. Mike Brown just can’t coach offense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
Lebron is overrated?
He took eric snow and Mike Brown to the finals…
its like taking Vinny and Lindsey Hunter(as your starting pg) to the finals.
I think his hype grew
because he someone managed to come out and be better than advertised in his rookie season. That just fed the hype machine to the point were he’s now the most overhyped superstar in sports.
I’d still take him on the Bulls today.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
When he didnt do anything yet.
besides he got swept,gone not even close.Until he wins 1 finals game then I MIGHT aknowledge him.
You give it to Lebron when his team wins
But you don’t give it to him when his team loses?
by Stacey_Is_King on Nov 20, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
2-2 Against Top 5 preseason contenders
Wins over SA and Cleveland
Blown out by Boston and LA.
Yet to play Orlando.
Not bad for a .500 team.
The Lakers are a dominant home team
I wasn’t expecting a win, but I thought we could challenge them. We played Kobe well, but we had nothing to stop Gasol and Artest. This ended up creating wide open looks for Fisher who was perfect from the field and the line.
We needed Ben Gordon last night to try to post a monster scoring night. I want Rose to take on this roll when the defense is overmatched by height and talent.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
When Taj Gibson is your starting PF against Pau... well, you're in for a long night.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Taj as bad last night
He’s got to use his body to box out when his man is all height and arms. He may have a nice reach, but Gasol and Bynum are around that rim with their arms straight up in the air like two redwood trees.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Taj is bad every night. He sucks. Why don't people realize this?
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
haha
yeah, I don’t think he’ll become a good (or even average) defensive rebounder based on practice. He’s just not big and has bad hands.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
His PER is like 12.4 or something even a little lower
sure, he’s putting up “numbers,” however small they may be. But he’s doing it so inefficiently. I think he has potential to be a solid 7th or 8th man on a contender by the time he’s a third or fourth year player — but that’s it.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, he's a nice bit player if used properly. He's not a starter.
He was never a starter, despite Vinny’s dumbness. Tyrus going down was very bad news when it happened and if it cements Taj as the starter, well then it’s even worse. Taj Gibson is a below-average basketball player and a downright awful rebounder.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Our defensive rebounding was atrocious last night
and that’s on Taj (and to a certain extent Miller and Deng), not Noah.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
they can still be boxed out. Taj didn't do the job.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
honestly, why don't we just start Miller
It’s not like Tyrus will be given his spot back when he returns anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
I'm all for Miller starting. It puts our best 5 on the floor and Tyrus is gone anyway.
Might as well just shoot for as many wins as possible. Putting Taj on the floor for starter’s minutes is not a recipe for a ton of wins.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Mostly because he was getting owned. I still would like to see him
get less minutes, but because the Bulls only have 7 players that even belong in an NBA rotation right now that are healthy, I guess we’re stuck with Taj for 20 minutes a night. God damn it, I hate the organization. IF they had actually signed capable players instead of Pargo, Gray, and freakin’ Hunter they might actually have some depth to be able to weather this kind of injury storm.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Taj has not been getting starters minutes...
Just time on the floor with the starters to begin the game…
I agree in regards to the organizational ineptitude of not preparing the roster for any minor injury along the way…
It is almost comical to me that out of a 13 man roster, only seven players deserve rotation minutes in the NBA…though on the other hand, it keeps Vinny from trotting out too many train wreck lineups…
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
yeah but if
the players were actually good, the lineups wouldn’t be trainwrecks.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
That is an entirely different issue...
I still saw too many lineups with Hinrich at the 3 last season than I care to remember.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
unfortunately
I think you’re right. We should just start Noah at the 4. Problem is, we then have no size on our bench unless VDN starts giving minutes to JJ (and he’s hardly “size”).
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
because he's not part of the future?
They was develop Taj. Which is what they should have done with tyrus.
Taj won't be doing much developing. He's 24!
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
they're a devloping team now?
no, they’re not. They need wins. Tyrus gives them a better chance at that too (as well as development).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Actually....I was thinking we should just start JJ
And try to run more.
If Taj isn’t going to make a difference on the boards, then he’s not going to make a significant difference at all. If you put JJ in there, you can put more athletes out there and perhaps that gives a chance to run more.
If Miller starts, VDN will end up playing him 35 minutes a night and that would be a disaster.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Nov 20, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn't mind this either. At least JJ can give you another potential
shot creator and ball handler. He should also be able to space the floor better than Taj can. Taj’s range is limited to about 15-18 feet. JJ can shoot the three. He doesn’t shoot it extremely well, but he can at least do a respectable job of it.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Your "shot creator" note is underestimated by this coaching staff
Our offense really stinks….so why not try to create a mismatch somewhere that swings things in your favor.
Instead, we throw Taj out there and are getting very little if anything out of that 4 spot.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Yeah, shot creation is really important.
I tend to think some stat guys (Hollinger is one) put TOO much stock into it. But the fact is you need a guy who can create shots for his teammates at least sometimes and Derrick can’t do it alone. Other than Derrick we have no one else that can really do it and on top of that, Derrick isn’t even that good at it. He’s getting better, but he’s got a ways to go. Hinrich is pretty mediocre at it. Salmons is only good at creating shots for himself. Noah doesn’t create shots for others and neither does Taj. Brad does and that’s why the offense usually runs smoother with him in the game.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
JJ has actually looked good the last couple times he's gotten some PT
of course, it’s mainly been in garbage time. But he is looking better. I’d be open to starting him a couple times while Tyrus is out — we did use a #16 pick on him.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Plus he's not 24, so there's still some room for reasonable growth
if he’s given minutes. He’s never going to develop sitting on the bench.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Although it's funny that he's actually 22
but only spent 2 years in college. What?!
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
He started college late. He had academic issues.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
Ahh
I think I remember hearing about that now that you mention it.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
If we had the Clippers and Warriors on this trip
I’d say start Johnson in place of Taj. We have Denver, Portland, Utah, then the Bucks left on the trip. Any of these look like good nights to start Johnson at the 4?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
It's not like Taj is going to bring more rebounding than James
so what is the basis for NOT playing James ahead of him?
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know
Taj fouls more and it’s not like JJ’s that much more turnover prone. Although I think shot selection has been an issue with Vinny in regards to JJ. But it’s certainly looked better the last few times he’s gotten some burn.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
The shots JJ's been taking have been no worse than
a lot of the crap shots that Salmons or others have taken. This offense is not getting guys easy looks, and even when it does dolts like Hinrich and Salmons turn them down and reset the offense because they are afraid to take the open look for some reason.
I’d rather see JJ out there trying to make something happen then watch Taj stay rooted in midrange just waiting to try and put up another low percentage jumper.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
I hope Salmons keeps hitting shots
he needs to get his confidence back. He’s been passing up easy looks and just has a total lack of aggression out there it seems. He did look better in the first half last night.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
I couldn't agree more
Granted, I’m not sure if replacing Taj with JJ will hurt the man-2-man defense, but we already know that Taj doesn’t make a difference on the glass, which means he won’t make a difference against the teams we’re playing next.
My problem with Taj is that he’s not making a difference at all AND our offense stinks. As a result, I think its early enough in the season (you know…when coaches experiment with lineups to see what works) that you can give your 16th pick a chance to add a spark.
Miller is still going to be first off the bench, and you can always leave Noah in, slide JJ up to the three and see that trio plays. On the other hand, you wouldn’t dare leave Taj, Noah, and Brad in the game at the same time.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Can James guard anyone
let alone Kenyon Martin, LeMarcus Aldridge, and Carlos Boozer?
You don’t think we’re going to outscore these opponents by giving up more points do you?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
I'm with you
Taj doesn’t give you much, but I’m not convince James Johnson does anything but hurt an offense at this point, and the team defense will certainly suffer.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know what Johnson brings to the defensive
end because he’s only played a whopping 45 minutes, 12 of which were against the Celtics.
I also think Taj’s defense is wildly overrated by everyone. He fouls too much and doesn’t rebound. Really the only thing that he appears to do reasonably well is helping off his man, deflecting passes and sometimes blocking shots (when he doesn’t foul instead). There’s value in that, but he’s not THAT good.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
It's the showing on screens
Gibson has taken the instruction and executed it. It’s taken Tyrus many years to get this right. I haven’t seen enough of Johnson to know he understands it, but he has to get it. If he does he’ll get burn at the 4.
Don’t you think Taj is getting whistled for a lot of cheap fouls?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
No, Taj is fouling a lot.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
It’s the showing on screens – Gibson has taken the instruction and executed it. It’s taken Tyrus many years to get this right.
indeed, yet (despite all those “many years”), tyrus now has got this right.
and taj remains 1+ yrs older, a fact which is unlikely to change throughout their careers.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
wait, are you for starting Johnson or against it?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
He appears to be against it.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I am for it where his defensive responsiblity
is more flexible to his skillset. That’s why I’d like to see the Clippers and Warriors on this trip as Tyrus is likely back the next time we see them out west.
I think the give aways Johnson will have on defense can be supplemented with superior scoring opportunities he can create against the right opponent.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Taj isn't going to stop those guys
including Kenyon if he can’t keep him off the boards. PLUS he’s not going to give you anything on offense.
At this point, the goal should be to see what JJ can give you in those situations. Maybe he holds his own on defense and uses his ability to drive to draw fouls, start/finish an occasional fast break, and pull those guys farther away from the basket.
At the very least, if Taj stays in, the guys you mentioned are going to get to know Derrick very well b/c they’re not leaving the paint.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
This is what I'm saying. Taj's defense is not that good.
It’s definitely not enough to justify keeping him in over a more talented and potential-laden prospect. Taj’s offense is just awful and it’s hurting the team. Give JJ a chance at the very least. Or start Miller. You can’t keep throwing Taj out there against the Pau Gasols of the world.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Taj can't defend Gasol
but Gasol is an all-star and champion. His defense isn’t awful. He plays good team defense because he knows his role in that setting. Actually I think his defense is far from awful.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Read what I wrote. I didn't say his defense was awful.
I said his offense was awful. He’s got bricks for hands. His midrange J is comically overrated and he doesn’t do anything else on offense besides shoot jumpers.
What I said about his defense is that its overrated and it is. He plays the pick and roll well and blocks a fair number of shots, but he’s really bad at everything else.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Against bad teams
he’s played good offense. I think JJ deserves minutes too, probably more given his potential, but Taj Gibson is a rookie and will improve.
I definitely think he is better than you think he is though. He’s not Pargo.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Taj Gibson is 24, he's not likely to
change much from the player he is today. It just doesn’t happen that often.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Rookies always improve.
if they aren’t busts. He doesn’t appear to be a bust.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
That's just not true.
And even if he does improve a little… what does that make him? His ceiling is to be an average bench player. He’s not even there yet and he’s 24. He’s 24. He’s 24!
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
You may be right.
Lets give him more than 10 games though. We’ll see what kind of ups and downs he has this season. His scoring high is 18 right ? He’s had some decent games. Lets see how many of those he’ll have. My bet is that we’ll have more taj games than pargo games. Low bar I know.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
He's Michael Ruffin. Only if Ruffin
was terrible at rebounding, took too many shots, and was better at not turning the ball over.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=OMN7Q
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
tyrus Thomas is waaaay better.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I'm at least interested to see how JJ responds to getting that kind of PT
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Taj understands team defense
and plays the pick and roll well.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Right. He plays it pretty well. He hedges out well
and recovers decently. But he also does a lot of things that kill a defense. Like fouling, a lot. Not rebounding the ball, giving up second chance points. Did I mention the fouling? Cause it really kills you to give up that many easy points cause the other team got you in the penalty because your PF can’t resist fouling. His man to man defense sucks, his rebounding sucks, and he fouls too much. The only thing he does really well is getting out on the pick and roll. He blocks shots okay, too.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously?
He tries hard and looks like he knows what he’s doing, even if he can’t execute. That’s pretty much the extent of it for this coaching staff, isn’t it?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I like this idea
I think James can really good if given a long leash. The length of that leash should be correlated to his ratio of jump shots to attacks of the rim. The more attacks of the rim the longer the leash gets.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
The other thing that's nice about James is that, unlike Taj,
he actually has a post up game. Taj can pretty much only shoot open face-up jumpers. James has demonstrated the ability to play with his back to the basket, at least in college.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WToELfGv98
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
James looked like the player with superior bball IQ last night
He recognized the mismatches right away and exploited them. He’s got Fisher or Farmar on the post and he calls for the ball and immediately attacks.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
You are right...he is not a starter.
But what do you want Vinny to do? There is no other PF on the roster that should be starting…would you prefer Deng at PF to start? Miller?
There is not one player on this roster who would start at PF for most teams in the league…unless Noah is starting out of position.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 20, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
I would rather see Deng or Miller out there, yes.
Taj is just so woefully overmatched that you have to go unorthodox and give the minutes to better players. Play Deng more minutes at the 4, play Salmons a few more minutes at SF, increase Kirk’s minutes (he can handle it), and maybe throw JJ out there for a couple minutes at SF.
Taj could be phased out rather easily and the Bulls would be better for it.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
I would too
At this point I’d rather see Rose, Hinrich, Salmons, Deng, Noah or better yet Rose, Salmons, Deng, Miller, Noah…we either end up with athleticism in the smaller lineup or solid size and rebounding in the bigger lineup…Taj can not shoot as well as Miller or Deng and he can’t rebound as well as either of them I would contend…so why is he out there?
At the expense of the bench...
What if Miller had landed in early foul trouble last night trying to guard Gasol, then we would have had potentially longer stretches of JJ/Taj rookie suckitude on the court…
While I agree its not ideal, I like bringing Miller and Hinrich on as our consistent first reserves off the bench, because they have the versatility to sub in for more than one player…
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
I can't wait
until Vinny goes smaller and starts JJ at the 4. He showed last night that within a couple years he’ll easily be the better player.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
Taj has "body"?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
i thought they tried hard, but it was obvious 3 minutes into the game that gasol was fine
and the odds of the bulls winning were below 10%.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
I know once I watched him tip that ball in and then his jumper looking silky
I knew there was no chance.
We'll
Have to see what Tyrus shows. To me Tyrus is a HUGE friggin loss to this team…especially if he continues his upward climb.
As usual, Kelly Dwyer says it best:
Chicago’s defense tried, but these are the Lakers. They’re better than you.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:13 AM CST reply actions
You know what I liked?
Noah had a somewhat frustrating night and still played well.. but I loved how he kinda pushed Gasol and was fighting to the very end. Even that foul and then screaming at the refs just made me happy.
Noah rules. This has been firmly established this season.
12 points, 15 rebounds, 4 steals, 4 assists, 4 turnovers, and 2 blocks against that Laker front line? That’s damned impressive.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, his stat lines have been impressive almost every game
he’s easily a top-5 center in the league. I’d say Howard, Bynum, Horford, Noah and Lopez would be that five (with Yao out at least).
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
I like Noah better than Horford. Horford has more traditional big man skills, but I think
Noah brings more to the table. That said, I really wanted Horford the year we drafted Tyrus, but then none of the Gator kids came out. I also thought that Noah would be the #1 pick that year, so I was thrilled to have gotten him the next year at #9.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
That's exactly how I felt
I wanted Horford both years, but felt Noah was a great consolation prize. I thought he would have gone #1 or #2 in 2006 too. I like Noah better than Horford at this point, he brings more energy and, well, size into the game.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Honestly if the Bulls had drafted all my favorite guys the last few years, they'd be stacked.
I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Yep
I wanted LMA the year we traded him for Tyrus (well, I wanted Roy too) and I thought we should have gone with Blair or Lawson this year. Unfortunately, Pax doesn’t respond to the letters I send him every day.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
I really liked Roy. He reminded me of a less explosive Wade (who is my favorite player). I got sucked into the Tyrus hype machine when it became
clear that he was the guy the Bulls were going to target. Initially I liked LMA better, because he was more skilled. Basically, when I stick to my guts and don’t let myself be talked out of what my initial evaluations are, I’m usually pretty on target.
I wanted Blair this year. I liked Lawson, but knew we wouldn’t take him with Rose here for the future (despite the fact that it would have made shipping Kirk more feasible and allowed us to retain BG… I’ll stop).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I eventually bought into the Tyrus hype too
although leading up to the draft I was getting angrier and angrier as it became clear we were going to get Tyrus. That’s what makes it so much more painful, the fact that I was so convinced (and disappointed) that we were taking Tyrus that when we took LMA I freaked out and jumped off my couch in joy… only to be re-disappointed just a few minutes later.
And I’m a big Roy fan too (basically for the same reasons — similarities to Wade, who’s just awesome to watch). Our team would be totally different if we’d taken one of those two.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
The thing that really pisses me off is that draft should have been the Durant Oden draft.
But Stern instituted the one and done rule that year, so Durant and Oden got bumped back to the next year. We should have Kevin Durant, but instead we got Tyrus. Talk about getting screwed by the league.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
Wow
totally forgot about that. Man, we would have had Kevin Durant… ouch.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
I've never forgotten it. I think about it every time I watch Durant light it up.
It makes me sad :(.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
But, but
he has a bad APM!!!
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
not this year he doesn't.
so far he’s got a +16 for 1 year APM (with the caveats about the small sample size and extreme noise that those numbers entail), but by the eye test, he’s been even better than he was last year. Their team defense has improved dramatically and I can’t help but think he has something to do with that.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
True dat.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
calling out players works
Durant didn’t take that criticism very well, but he’s playing like he did.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
egh, I don't think it has anything to do with Abbott's piece.
I think he’s just a third year player who is finally learning the nuances of defense in the NBA and putting his god given length and athleticism to proper use.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
You don't think
“The Thunder are better with Sefalosha” had anything to do with it?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
No. I don't. Players improve with age and coaching, especially on defense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
haha
no.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I'm glad you found this as ridiculous as I did.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I think everyone did
at least, I would hope so.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
NBAO is firmly entrenched in mystic basketball arts
we just come from different worlds
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Durant's rebounding and toughness is the biggest thing.
He used to just throw up jumpers. Kind of like a younger, taller Carmelo Anthony. But now he’s maturing at the same time Melo is, only he’s still, what, 7 years younger?
Gonna be a beast. :)
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
We had pick #2 that year
Oden would have gone first for sure. He was even more hyped coming out of high school than he was coming out of college.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
Yep.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
And Toronto had the #1 overall pick...
They would have taken the big guy to play next to Bosh…Bulls still could have mucked it up and traded Durant for Tyrus and Khryapa…
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 20, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
I would have moved to Denver
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
I like to think that the org isn't THAT incompetent.
I mean they did select Rose, at least.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
We had weeks of debate, sort of
The org talked a good game, but I’m not really sure there was much debate going on.
Just waiting on some offense....
I thinkk they werejust talking up the uncertainty
Just to see if they could get Miami to take Beasley so they could trade back and pay Rose less. I don’t doubt that at all, actually.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
LMA and Noah would be awesome together on a good team.
The Bulls went for the “best talent” when they chose Thomas and Noah and didn’t think about “fit” of having two defensive guys with limited offensive skills. If they had a creative offensive mind or just a good coach in general, it could work, but yeah, LMA and Noah and Deng??? Thta’s a Top-2 or -3 front line in terms of production and potential right now.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
i don't think that's a valid point
cause thomas was chosen the year before. they weren’t thinking oh, tyrus would or would not be a great fit next to this guy who there’s no way we’ll know if we’ll get!
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
I didn't say they should have done that.
I didn’t mean to imply they did.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Wait a minute...
Didn’t you want Adam Morrison, Shelden Williams and Spencer Hawes? (sarcasm)
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 20, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
No, no I did not.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
He ran the break once too
and is capable of pushing the ball up the floor.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
And he actually knows what to do when he gets the ball near the rim
that took Noah a couple years to learn and Deng/Hinrich (and sometimes Rose even) seem like they have no clue. Deng is 6’9", there is no excuse for lay-ups!
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
yup
These games can kinda tell you what your players are made of. Noah went out kicking and screaming fighting to the very end and you have to love that shit!
if the great 2010 plans goes nowhere
Let’s just get rid of the “vets” and clearly make Noah the alpha dog
if 2010 fails!
Clean the slate and make Noah and Rose the building blocks and clear cap space for 2011. Try for Durant. haha oh god.
but they're our captains!
I agree, and I like Noah’s quotes:
It’s unbelievable. There’s nobody you can really help off of. They just made it look really easy. It was like an exhibition out there tonight. It felt like a varsity team compared with a JV team. I mean, I was tired as hell and I’m looking around the court and nobody from the Lakers even broke a sweat. We just have to get better. It’s humbling, but at the same time it’s a learning experience.
He at least gets the massive chasm in talent this team has in comparison to the elite, and is upset by it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
It's not just that they have elite talent, it's that the triangle is such a superior
offense to everything else. When executed properly, you just cannot stop that offense, you just have to hope they miss. Combined with that length and talent… it’s just unbelievable.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
eh
Imagine the Bull’s running the triangle..I mean you need the personnel and talent to pull off any kind of scheme. The Lakers could be running the Bulls offense (not sure what that is exactly) and still be contenders because of their talent.
well yes, but when you combine the two... it's just ridiculous.
and yes, you need a certain level and type of talent to pull off the triangle successfully. I never said otherwise, but when run properly no offense is as good as the triangle. It just provides a counter to any thing a defense can hope to try and spaces the floor about as well as you possibly can.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
mustve been one of those new rules added to the season huh?
and it seemed like we had a 1.5 sec… the one call on derrick for 3secs was nene hilarious
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
Noah looked spent.
While the Lakers were just laughing at us. That team is so cocky. I guess they have that right.
But then again when was the last time they played on the road? Denver?
They will get their road games to close the season out. Don't worry, it all balances out.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Hopefully one of the Celtics will have gone down with an injury by that point
so that we have a chance.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
once again
JJ needs to murder Rondo. It would make my year…
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
you see no pain with murder
i wanna see him get knocked in the face and have the refs call it a personal foul
I remember feeling that way about the Bulls quite a lot during the MJ years
Just waiting on some offense....
Noah's the only center in the league
that can make a steal, bring the ball up, and then deliver the perfect pass to a cutting man for an easy basket.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
nene too.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
Hum, maybe.
Nene floats in and out of games though.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
I thought Hinrich shot really well. If I can be positive.
Even though i don’t want Hinrich on this team anymore.
He shot well when he shot
If having a couple of good shooting games, percentage-wise, over the past few gets him going like normal, I don’t mind that he was incredibly overly selective in his shots for one night. But in the first half in particular he wasn’t looking to shoot it at all. And so far for the season, he’s attempting nearly a 3 per 36 less than last season.
It’s kind of a catch-22 – if he’s shooting like crap, Kirk’s not really the kind of shooter that I want to keep jacking it up till he shoots himself back into rhythm, but with the offensive makeup of the team we really can’t have him not shooting either.
Just waiting on some offense....
He's gotta shoot when he's open. He's turned down way too many open looks so far this season.
I know he’s not a great shooter, but he’s got to have confidence out there and take them when they are available, because the likelihood of finding another open look after turning and open one down (especially against good defenses) is really low. Good defensive teams just don’t give up open looks that often and so you really have to let it fly when it’s there.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
huge agree here.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
The thing that's so frustrating about it is uninformed types will shot
“oh, look at the ball movement!” when Kirk (or Salmons) turns down an open look and passes it back out around the perimeter. But here’s the thing, it usually results in a worse shot than the one that he turned down, so it’s not the best play and in fact it kills your offense. Kirk and John have been doing so much harm to the Bulls offense this year that it’s ridiculous.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
shout*
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
"it usually results in a worse shot than the one he turned down..."
yep. or a turnover. its just a lousy strategy.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
I agree
But I also know that Kirk is the type to get a little stressed over his shot when it’s not dropping game after game, and then he shoots worse. It didn’t surprise me much at all, after a 1 for 9 night, that he was a little reluctant to shoot. I’m not saying that’s a good thing at all, I just think he falls into that category. He passed up shots last night he’d “normally” let fly – if he keeps doing it, this will be a huge issue. But now that he’s had a couple of good nights shooting lately, hopefully he’ll just relax and get back to playing in the flow.
Just waiting on some offense....
Did you see this
happen last night? I guess I missed it.
http://dimemag.com/2009/11/burned-out/
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
I don't think they showed it
I saw the hard foul, then they showed Odom walking away and jawing over his shoulder. In the AP write up it just said
Lamar Odom and Chicago’s Kirk Hinrich exchanged insults after a hard foul by Hinrich in the third quarter
but I haven’t seen anyplace that has a better account of it. The foul was definitely a hard one, but I didn’t think it was cheap or excessive or anything like that.
Just waiting on some offense....
It wasn't
Lamar was whining like a little baby. The contact was hard, but Lamar had an easy lane to the hoop so the contact was appropriate to deny him the easy shot but within the confines of the rules.
In the replay it looked like Hinrich may have scuffed up Lamar’s eyebrow. It looked red, but that may have been a prior cut.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
Lamar had to have
six stitches in his eyebrow after the game.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
oh, i saw he was cut
-didn’t know what you and your dimemag link were referring to.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
You know.. when he was at Kansas I remember him as like a scoring machine.
Honestly when he was younger he had like BG scoring ability. Maybe not hitting shots fading away but given space it seemed like the ball was going in. I remember him in the Final four just lighting it up. I wonder where that guy went? Thats kinda what we need him to do.
Roy Williams
Roy Williams is a great coach.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Hinrich also shot the ball better at Kansas than he ever has since.
Most guys get better at shooting as they get older, but not Kirk. He’s been wildly inconsistent with his shooting %s. It’s odd really. I have no explanation for it.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
confidence?
When he got that 24 second violation last night he like shrank into his jersey. He looked so embarrassed.
He did have a nice veteran move playing defense on Farmer on the break that only a coaches son could produce.
He should just jack it up Kansas style when were losing and good shot selection is pointless.
He should shoot when he's open. That's it. He's been getting plenty of open looks
and he’s either bricking them or not taking them at all. He’s got to start letting them rip. We need more three pointers and he’s a good enough shooter that they’ll start falling if he keeps putting them up.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Plenty of guys get better at shooting the ball after college, even with playing against stiffer competition.
It’s called practicing your jumper all-day instead of having to go to class. For some reason, Kirk hasn’t been one of those guys.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Well duh, Shooting in practice and putting the ball in the hole are different. He’s limited by his athletic ability. In college he could get floaters and lay-ups. In the Pros, he’s really relegated to jumpers only. He rarely gets to the bucket.
i think hes talking about strictly jumpshots and hinrichs ability to make them,
not hinrichs overall ability to score.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
athelticism still has something to with it
the 3pt line isnt as far, the defenders arent as strong, getting off a jumpshot is far easier (relatively) in college than it is in the nba. Plus the longer you are in the league, teams learn about your tendencies alot faster, they learn how to take you off your game…there are plenty of college stars that come into the league and become role players….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
it's confidence
if we’re talking about turning down shots, and that’s the way i’m reading it, these are open looks that are being turned down. (if so-called “uninformed types” refer to this as “ball movement”, well, they’re just wrong.)
hinrich needed d’antoni to coach here (not that d’antoni’s necessarily better than vinny, imo). he wouldn’t have become nash (hahaha!), but raja bell. for all his faults, d’antoni will instill confidence in a shooter.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
even he first few years here
he was huge for us with the wizards in the playoffs..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
he did it here to under skiles
first playoff series in 05 against the wizards…hinrich was a threat….in 06 against the heat, hinrich was knocking down big shots, in the 07’ playoffs against the pistons it was the hinrich gordon tangem that won them the games they won. Last year in the celtic series, late in the series hinrich shot started comnig back to form, especially game 6 and game 7. The guy just lacks confidence in himself, in the playoffs its easier cuz the games are always must win and you pump yourself up alot more, but in regular season games if he misses a couple he will stop shooting until the game nears the end and his team is down…he needs a coach like skiles that pretty much yells at him to take shots…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
this sucks
i though the game was tomorrow, now i wake up to jackass laker fans. fk those guys
"I think it’s safe to say Noah and Rose are the future."
Despite the loss
was it worth watching? I DVR’d the game (a little too late for this east-coaster), so should I watch it tonight or just delete it?
watch the second half if you want to see Rose actually look like he did last year
but we still played like shit for the most part. Salmons and Noah had good games too. Rose was awful in the first half.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Rose was attacking in the first half and going to the rim. He just couldn't buy a foul call and
was struggling to finish at the rim (which was not unrelated to his getting hacked a ton).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
That's true
but I feel like that mainly started about midway through the second quarter. Too many jumpers in the first 15 minutes of the game.
I was so mad. I saw the Lakers go inside on their first 10 possessions, while the Bulls didn’t take a shot inside 10 feet until there was 6 minutes to go in the first quarter. Unacceptable.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the TNT crew did a nice job of showing how the Lakers were using their bigs
and all that length to “build a wall” to prevent the Bulls from penetrating and getting any easy buckets in the paint. Instead of being aggressive and driving into that the Bulls settled for low percentage jumpers. Played right into the Lakers hands.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
I thought that was one of the better things they did last night (the TNT crew that is).
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I feel like that just as the league
has transitioned to pick n roll and fast pgs, the WALL will become a standard defensive technique which will require mobile lengthy players.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Notice how many charges the Lakers took
and usually take?
It’s almost none. That’s bad coaching from Vinny who should be stressing to his players to attack the rim.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Yes. They should have attacked. Derrick in particular. He started to more in the second half
but by then the game was out of hand and he was still shooting a lot of midrange shots. He also tended to attack more in transition than in the half court. He is really, really hesitant to attack a set defense for some reason. That’s gotta change.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
Last night was his best game
in terms of aggressiveness. I think we’ll be getting more of ROY Derrick.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 20, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
there's nowhere to attack
they can’t space the floor. And there’s no real creators on the team outside of Rose.
I think Vinny stinks too, but it wasn’t a coaching issue last night.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
ive tempered my vinny hate considerably this year
he’s extremely limited with what he can do with his lineups, and the defensive schemes are 10 times better this year than they were last year. sure, an improved noah and a healthy deng have helped the defense a lot, but the schemes are noticeably better. no more switching on everything bullshit, and the rotations are quicker and crisper.
im sure ill return to vinny bashing though when tyrus returns and splits minutes with taj though
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
did not see it this way
instead saw rose (again) elect to pull back and run a set time after time in the first half. can’t rally blame him when he can’t buy a call. (news flash: non all-stars in staples on national tv getting refs’ favor? priceless.)
but in the second half he finally got mad. (you could actually see it!) after it happened again, practically back to back, he went on his tear.
only chance against lakers is to use speed, that means your quick r.o.y. pg. derrick needs to keep forcing the issue with the refs until they finally give him the (well deserved) benefit. (and i really hate to state the obvious when there’s been so much stupid derrick bashing here…)
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
It's also always worthwhile to watch the Lakers if you want to see basketball played
the way it should be played. They are just too smart, too talented, and too well coached for a team like the Bulls to stand a chance.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Lakers are one of my favorite teams to watch for that exact reason
although I still enjoy watching the Nuggets just a little more. But, outside of the Bulls, those are the two teams I love watching hoop (and Portland to a certain extent as well).
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I love the Nuggets. I love them. I don't know what it is, but whenever they are on
I will drop what I’m doing and watch them. I think it’s their combination of swagger and talent that I really enjoy. Plus, Melo is a highlight tape waiting to happen, so that’s fun. Now that they have Lawson coming off the bench they are that much more exciting.
But yes, the Lakers are required viewing for anyone who truly loves basketball from a pure standpoint. They are just so, so good. It’s really a privilege to watch them work.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Dude, I'm with you on the Nuggets
I love watching that team. I love watching Melo and Chauncey, but I especially love Nene’s game. Agreed completely, doesn’t matter what I’m doing (unless the Bulls are on, and even then…) I will drop it to watch the Nugs.
Awesome, interesting line-up and their uniforms are pretty sweet too.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
i think i like 2 things about the nuggs. one is all of their starters can handle the ball and
pass. two, unlike most running teams the nuggets are really physical, almost nasty at times. its a really unique combination, and weird to coach i would think.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
Yeah, the Nuggets can win ugly, but still make it seem pretty because they
are all so skilled on offense. If that makes sense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
It's funny but
When i watch the Lakers it brings back strong memories of the old days with the Bulls, seeing the triangle executed the way it should be executed. Nothing quite like it.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
by anorexorcist on Nov 20, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
the funny thing is the Lakers current personnel (save for Derek Fisher)
is actually better suited to the triangle than those Bulls teams were. The Triangle relies on post play and the Lakers have WAY better big men than those Bulls teams ever did. The Bulls were fortunate that MJ developed his post game and became one of the best post players in the league, but he was still only 6’6", he didn’t play the post the same way a guy like Gasol can play it using his size advantage.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Lakers can run a lineup that has 4 post up players at one time
When you have that many skilled, long players it makes pretty much any offense look great
"Tyrus run, RUN!" - Vinny D
by RogersPark Kris on Nov 20, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
James Johnson
finally got something resembling minutes and had a few nice garbage time plays. He needs to play more…
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
I'm surprised the Bulls didn't use that small lineup w/ Deng at the 4
and try to make things easier for penetrators and rebounders by luring Gasol out of the paint.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
they were getting killed on the glass. I'm not sure that putting Deng at the 4 would have helped that.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Did VDN
make any adjustments?
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
by ignign*kt on Nov 20, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know what he could have done, honestly. The Bulls frontcourt just didn't have the
talent or athleticism to match up with the Lakers. Tyrus would have really helped. I guess he could have played Miller more to help on the glass, but Brad was getting murdered on defense because of his slow feet.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Does he ever?
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 20, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly, though, in VDN's defense (not a position I'm used to taking)
there’s not a whole lot he could have done against the Laker front line. I would have liked for Taj to have been sat down because he was getting murdered on the glass and on defense and at least Miller would have helped on the glass, even if he still would have been killed because of his glacial feet.
Maybe he could have tried to spread the floor on offense with Deng at the 4, but then the Bulls would have gotten killed on defense just as bad and Luol was having a poor shooting night as it was.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
right, last night there was nothing vinny could do
outside of maybe giving JJ some burn earlier, but he’s hardly proven to be a defensive stalwart. and i recall we went to the deng at the 4 lineup for a little in the 2nd quarter and the lakers promptly began dominating inside and rattled off something like 7 straight points.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
desperate times call for desperate measures.....
I take back what I said on earlier posts…..I want Allen Iverson….The knicks are not offering him a contract and he is still available. We need a guy who is a legit scorer. Get AI, start him and rose, move taj to the bench and move salmons to his old spot at the 3 with deng and noah. I cant see no other way right now for this team to make a legitimate run for the playoffs unless something drastic is done, and SOON!!!!!
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 20, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions
that would put us in the luxury tax, and Uncle Jerry's simply not going to pay it, especially not for AI.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
AI is too self-centered
to peaceably exist with a franchise point guard.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Is AI really still a legit scorer?
Maybe, but a pretty inefficient one from what I’ve seen.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, AI is great taking a lot of shots and gambling for steals and... not much else that I can see.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure he'd give us anything we don't already have
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
He'd give us some behind-the-scenes drama. Intrigue!
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
hopefull with Tyrus
then we’d have a reason to let both of them walk after the season!
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
You are getting flagged for that.
Closes thing to an “Un-Rec” button we have around here!!!
No Iverson cancers please.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 20, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
There really ought to be a "thumbs down" option or something like that.
Flagging just doesn’t quite hit the mark. It’s not that what he said was offense, it’s just that it was wrong.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
But proposing to bring Iverson to this team is pretty offensive to me as a basketball fan.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
i love this team
this year more than any in 10+ yrs. i’ve never been fond of iverson’s game, even when he was a star. certainly the thought of him on this roster now is highly offensive!
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
yea, you guys are right
lets just play our role in the nba as mediocre, easy to beat teams and just enjoy it…Im all in
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 20, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
AI does not make us a better team. He's an inefficient chucker who doesn't play defense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
hmmm, sounds familiar
reminds me of, uhhmmmm, oh yea, BEN GORDON!!! lol
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 20, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Except Ben Gordon was extremely efficient and actually played a lot better defense than AI.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
This isnt fantasy basketball
AI will do more harm then good, despite stats. He’ll destroy the bulls chemistry and then this season will be completely loss
by aznlildelfin on Nov 20, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
If you exclude teams expected to compete for the NBA championship this year,
The Bulls are 6 and 3. With the 4th most challenging schedule so far, the team is above .500. Not sure how that qualifies as “easy to beat.”
We knew we weren’t at the championship level coming into this season, and AI sure as heck wouldn’t change that.
Just waiting on some offense....
or instead laugh at their overextended payroll
Definitely. Fans (like me) sometimes forget that being an owner of a basketball team is a business. It’d be silly to think that an owner would always try to put the best team out there and lose money in the process. It’d be better to just get a team that’s the best financial one for him.
It sucks, but from a business standpoint, Reinsdorf is a pretty smart dude.
Fundamentally, Gibson had 7 boards in 18 minutes last night. He grabs 8 per 36 minutes. Which is right at average for a skinny 6’9" rookie forward.
He’s starting because we don’t have anyone better right now. And yes he does foul a bit, but he is also the victim of some ticky tack calls. And you are wrong about 24 year old rookies improving. It does happen more frequently than you think. His max can be Joe Smith. About 12 and 7-8 boards. And he’s a good defender. You don’t win PAC-10 Defensive Payer of the Year if you can’t defend.
No, 8 per 36 is not average for a PF. And worse yet, 12.1 Reb% is god freakin' awful for a starting PF.
Taj is single handedly the reason the Bulls are currently 13th in team rebounding.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
He absolutely cannot be Joe Smith. He's at the same place at 24 years old that Michael fucking Ruffin
was at. Which is to say he god damned sucks.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
And you’re god damned wrong. 8 per 36 for a rookie is average after 11 games. It puts you 27th in the league. Of those half are centers. SO among forwards it puts him 14-16. Average.
the Bulls play at a really fast pace. That's why you have to pay attention to rate statistics.
And comparing him to rookies is wrong. He’s not a normal rookie, he’s 24. AND he’s starting. Compare him to the rest of the league. He’s a sucky rebounder.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Taj sucks. I doubt you’ve taken your logic out far enough to have any meaning. Multiply everyone in the leagues average per 36 min and I’m sure Gibson is hardly anywhere near 27th….would be much much lower.
by him_joke_NOAHmore on Nov 20, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
He can be Malik Allen
note the “can be” in that sentence. As in, he’s not even there yet.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
We know who he is. He's Michael Ruffin. Look at that career arc. That's what Taj is headed for.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Ruffin sucked and he got 2-3 minutes a game. Gibson is getting 22 because he’s much better than Ruffin.
You haven't a clue what you're talking about. Gibson is an 8th man at best.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Gibson's getting 22 minutes
because the guy he’s supposed to be backing up is injured; and out team was pretty thin as it was.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Hah
I try to forget our idiot coach.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
gibson is getting 22 minutes a game because we have no one else
literally, no one else. even aaron gray isnt available.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
Heck
I’d rather see us go:
Rose-Hinrich-Salmons-Deng-Noah/Miller than force Taj in there.
Speed, ball handling, slashing, and the all everything Noah…
We’re shorthanded, so let’s give Nellie Ball a shot….
anyone but Gibson
what’s ridiculous is that VDN was playing Gibson so many minutes when Thomas was actually healthy, VDN….what a moron!
by him_joke_NOAHmore on Nov 20, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
we dont have enough guards to play nellieball
playing a 7 man rotation is bad enough; a 6 man rotation is lunacy
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
I'm fine
To use Taj after we get the ball rolling in fill in the blank minutes (and get some burn from JJ) and even gasp Pargo….
But to start the game in a huge hole because our starting 4 isn’t good enough when his backup Miller (who backs up Noah really but can move Noah) is better is another thing.
It’s worth taking a shot. We’re young, athletic and quick. Taj can still get minutes he’s getting now, just in spots to give rest. And with an athletic bunch running and gunning, it’ll up Rose’s strengths and make JJ’s athleticism a need off the bench.
Suns left him open a ton and he's still Peja. You simply can't let him get an open look.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
What happened to the Hornets last night?
Someone lit a fire under them. They looked really good at times and then like a lottery team for a few 4-6 minute stretches.
Peja looked really aggressive shooting the ball.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
The Suns weren't trying hard enough on D. They really mailed it in.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
lazy
they’ve done so fairly well this year.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
one word: ballboards.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
maybe Henry Abbott wrote something critical of them?
I heard that’s a real motivator for a pro athlete.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Let me check their twitter feeds
before I pass judgment.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
I know this will be blasphemy
but the Hornets are better without CP3 dominating the ball (not better without CP3, just better without him dominating the ball). Right now, CP3 is doing his 89MJ / Kobe 07 / Lebron impression. Meaning, on every play the ball is in hands. He decides who shoots and when. He creates every opportunity for every teammate, their offense is basically “Watch what CP3 can do!”
No matter how great the player, no team can win when one guy does everything. And despite what PER may say, CP3 is not Lebron or MJ. CP3 out, other guys get into a rhythm and step up. The Hornets would be better if CP3 had a lower PER, dribbled less, and passed more (not handed out more assists, but made more passes that let other guys initiate things.) Until Cp3 and the Hornets learn that, they will never maximize his talent.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 20, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
not blasphemy
just silly.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
It's not CP3's fault
That his teammates brick endless amounts of open shots that he provides them on an nightly basis. Seriously, watch a Hornets game. He could have 15+ assists a night.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Its not his fault, but when one player dominates the ball
it hurts the game of the other players. The fact is that the Hornets are 2-1 since CP3 went down.
If you watched the playoffs last season, Denver basically destroyed the Hornets by doubling CP3 every time he had the ball. You can’t have one guy dominate the ball on every possession and expect to beat good NBA teams. Maybe its coaching. But the way the Hornets use CP3 are good for his numbers but bad for the overall W-L record of the team. CP3 has Okafor, West and Stojacovic as his frontline. Are you telling me that the Hornets don’t have guys who can hit shots?
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 20, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
they beat the clippers and an uninterested, overrated suns team. they were crushed by ATL.
its not pauls fault west missed 5 consecutive layups against PHX. and when players miss open shots, when west doesnt rebound (11% trb for a PF!), that cant be his fault either right? i will say one thing, collison is clearly a better defender than paul, and that shows.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
they are 3-1 now without Paul
and they just beat the hottest team in the league.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 21, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
so whats your theory on how they won 49 games last year and 56 the year before?
or is a four game sample size enough for you?
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
my theory is that he didn't dominate the ball as much
the last two years. He has been increasingly dominating the ball, as his PER is increasing, his teams wins are decreasing. Teams play better when they share the ball. The Bulls played better when MJ controlled the ball less, the Lakers with Kobe, the Cavs with Lebron. When the offense boils down to one guy doing everything by himself, that will only get you so far.
I’m not arguing that the Hornets are better without CP3. Of course they wouldn’t sniff 50 wins without him. I’m saying he needs to give up the ball more, play more within the system. Obviously his teammates aren’t total garbage. They have beat the Suns and the Hawks without him. He needs to trust them more.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 22, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
pauls usage for this season is below last seasons, and identical
with his usage during the 56 win season. the hornets are winning because they are on a torrid streak shooting the 3 ball and because the guy with the second highest PER on the team- marcus thornton- is actually playing, something he sadly was not given a chance to do under byron scott.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
also, when CP3 plays, the Hornets have zero ball movement
the last 2 games they have been passing the ball around, looking for the extra shooter – etc. I’m not saying its CP3’s fault. But its kind of like Lebron. The best offense for New Orleans isn’t stand around and watch CP3 create anymore than the best offense for the Cavs is to stand around and watch Lebron create.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 20, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
i just dont know who on that team you would want creating offense outside of paul.
i truly doubt devin brown is having some kind of sudden, late career transformation, but much of their recent success is attributable to him.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
i have a question for all you posters here....
2 and half years back, when all the hype in the nba was kobe talking about being traded to chicago for deng and a few others…what were your guys thoughts on that?? I wasnt a member of this blog yet, so im just curious what the talk was here. If any1 can give a quick recap of the general feelings here that would be great, thanks.
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 20, 2009 3:22 PM CST reply actions
Yet it took 7 years kobe to win.What I consider his 1st chip (1st 3 were shaq's)
Cant stand Kobe never will like him.But i respect him.
kobe + really good team= championships. hmm... that was a point barely worth making.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
I was against it
because I was stupid.
I figured the Bulls were one player away with what they had. If they dealt 3 top players for Kobe, they’d be just as far (or farther away).
In retrospect given that they were indeed not one player away but very close to being terrible, I would’ve dealt the whole team for Bryant and started over. But as we know with Bryant’s no-trade clause he wasn’t going to accept a trade to a stripped-down team anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
My thoughts exactly (at the time of the "trade")
I felt like we had earned our “contender” status the right way and I didn’t want to give up on that. :::::face palm:::::
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 20, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They wanted Deng.
I wanted Kobe and got banned the first game of the season when the trade didn’t go down. I lost it. Damn you Dan Bernstein!
hahahaha
I remember thinking to myself, they want Deng + Nocio + TT + either Gordon or Hinrich. SCREW THAT!!!
Neither TT or Gordon is here anymore, Nocioni got us Salmons.
So yeah, knowing what we know now. I would definitely would’ve liked a Noah + Derrick + Kobe instead of Noah + Derrick + Deng + Salmons. Shit, that Derrick + Kobe back court sounds very very sexy.
Not sure how many games we would’ve won with Kobe though.
Why are we going back in time again?
oh the trades that could’ve been!!!! KG, Gasol, Kobe *sigh
I was all for it, mainly because I wan't buying into our core.
Fans were loving Deng but I just didn’t see it.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
the whole thing w/ trading deng was moot
as yfbb says, kobe was going to reject any shitty trade. and he wanted to play with deng.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
while deng and hinrich are uh, well paid here
they’re exactly the types a high level f.a. would especially want to join sides with. it’s important to remember this. the theory is only enhanced by the subsequent additions of noah and rose.
the irony would be if their salaries preclude said high level f.a. signing.
failing plan 2010, follow the atlanta model, i say. keep the youth together, watch it jell and add necessary pieces over time. (and play tyrus!)
crappy superstar trades that gut a team only lead to mediocre records and resentment of the superstar.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
i never bbelived it
whay would kobe wanna come here withou BG, deng, and tyrus(maybe).. i just know that grodon and deng woulda been gone.. he wouldve been a one man show here like he was then with the lakers. plus i think there were reports him not coming over if deng wasnt here, because he had that no trade clause dealy in his contract.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I think that despite having some success, Salmons sucks and needs to get off this team.
I also believe that despite some struggles, Rose is starting to look like old Rose.
We need a PF who is better both than Taj (who sucks) and TT (who can’t bang) and a shooting guard who can accept that the point is going to have the ball in his hands a lot.
by Super-Structure on Nov 20, 2009 4:05 PM CST reply actions
You're talking about
next year’s team.
At least I hope that’s next year’s team. You never know with our three headed hydra for a GM.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Oh yeah, of course next year.
But this game made it all quite clear.
by Super-Structure on Nov 20, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
salmons and hinrich
bothered kobe this game much more that your average sg defender does or would do.
unfortunately, they either didn’t hear or didn’t respond to our shrieks and screams to draft dejuan blair. the necessary banger.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
ok, thanks for all of you who responded
and I guess I was on the same boat as most of you. I didnt want kobe to come to chicago. I was telling ppl here that i would much rather have a bunch of young no-name players who are hungry and will develop, than to move some of them for an aging wanna-be MJ crybaby.. As you can imagime, all of those guys laughed and talked shit like i was crazy for saying screw kobe, you laker fans can keep him. thanks again for getting me up to speed on that
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 20, 2009 4:40 PM CST reply actions
crap
on a side note, clippers are beating denver. denver is gonna be pissed tmrw if they lose
And/or beat from playing big minutes on the first night of a back-to-back, then traveling
At least the bigs – Carmelo 43, Nene 39, Martin 38. That’s 6-7 minutes above the per game average for each.
Just waiting on some offense....
i look at it this way
if the clips can beat em, then we should be able to also, and, we gave em a good run for their money last time we played (and back to back games should give some advantage for our guys)
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 21, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
Not last night they didn't...
Eric Gordon and Blake Griffin were out with injuries….
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
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