Bulls 101, Kings 87: Bulls shamefully break 100 points on the road, no free big macs
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 18, 2009 8:57 AM CST
78 comments
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Chicago | 94.0 | 107.4 | 51.2% | 19.3 | 30.0 | 16.0 |
| Sacramento | 92.6 | 45.7% | 16.0 | 31.0 | 22.3 |
I don't have much this morning, but it was nice to see the Bulls turn in a competent offensive performance as a team, and for John Salmons individually. He still does not look like the same player as last year, and gets his shot blocked way too often, but Salmons did hit a couple big 3-pointers (and Deng with a couple 21-footers) to keep the Kings at a manageable distance in the second half.
As usual, the most pleasant aspect of watching the Bulls was Joakim Noah, who again played heavy minutes and kept his production up accordingly with 15 points and 14 rebounds. He dominated and frustrated Jason Thompson, a rising young frontcourt player in his own right who'd strung together some solid rebounding efforts. But Noah has been past 'rising' this season, and is already here. He outmuscled Thompson throwing him off his game leading to my favorite sequence of the night, when he blatantly pushed Noah going for a dunk, and reacting flabbergasted that he got called for a foul. With not only the production but seeing him act like an buffoon every time he's on the bench, Noah is worth watching on this team.
Another positive was the Bulls getting their good Jannero Pargo half of basketball for the week. But there was some bad as well, most worrisome being Derrick Rose getting completely outshone by Tyreke Evans. I'm avoiding Rose's struggles for now, just hoping it's the ankle. Please let it be the ankle.
Also, Taj Gibson fouled out in 11 minutes and Hinrich continues to shoot poorly.
But this was a must-win for the trip, and it was a fairly comfortable victory at that. Amazing how easy not-league-worst on offense for a night will make things.
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Actually, I liked Rose's play in the first half
I know he wasn’t hitting, but he was being much more aggressive. I will just assume the second half the ankle started hurting again. If a few more of those drives or outside shots go, he could have easily finished with 15 and 7. Not dominating, but he looked a bit better, at least as far as the manner in which he was playing, although the results were not there.
In other news....Chris Paul is out indefinitely with an ankle injury.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Part that stuck out to me about the game
Also, Taj Gibson fouled out in 11 minutes
Anyone want to set the over/under for games in which Taj fouls out while playing less than 20 minutes? I think I would set it at 12.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Nov 18, 2009 9:22 AM CST reply actions
Ha, I just highlighted that same line and was about to say the same thing.
I didn’t even realize he fouled out though, I thought it was just the usual second half rotation.
he started the game strong
two buckets and a block in the first minute. i thought it was gonna be a big game for him.
a rookie is a rookie is a rookie (most of the time, anyway)
i'm hot for teacher
The love for Taj is fading away
I will give two more games for some of the critics who praised Taj start begging for Tyrus return
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
I didn't think Tyreke had all that great a game
He was impressive defending Fish when the latter was in full blown “black hole” mode, but the Bulls were pretty good at doing to him what Sac did to Derrick on his 1st half penetrations….give help to contest his shots at the basket.
On the other hand, I don’t recall Tyreke having to defend a pick ‘n roll once. Derrick gets chided as being a poor defender, but I maintain its specific to his defending the pick ’n roll, which he does better than last year, but still has enough struggles. We don’t know if Tyreke would have had the same struggles, b/c VDN doesn’t think of stuff like that. He’d rather have guys try to go one-on-one against him and given Tyreke’s bigger frame/quickness, that’s exactly what you shouldn’t do.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Yeah, I didn't think he was awesome either...
I was kinda expecting more and thought his handles were wobbly for a PG. Jennings impressed me much more, as far as rookie comparisons go.
What do you guys who saw the game think of Evans in general?
I haven’t seen much of him and he’s an interesting guy to me because he’s sort of the prototypical guy who was difficult for me to grade as a prospect.
That is, he didn’t measure out spectacularly and he didn’t have very good stats in his college stint. So you sort of had to take scouting reports on their own that the kid was more athletic than he tested as, and more skillful and determined than he showed, just raw.
He’s not unique in that sense. Guys like Kevin Durant tested out very poorly too. Sometimes people just test poorly but you have to go ahead and assume based on watching him the testing was a fluke and not indicative of what they’re really capable of.
In the case of Evans, he certainly looks like a very good pro prospect. In the little snips I’ve seen, he sort of reminds me of Pippen. He’s got decent looking defensive instincts, and a good natural sense of the game despite not being a “true PG”. Not a great shooter, but he’s strong and athletic and looks like he’ll be a very solid scorer. If the Kings could combine him with Martin on the other wing and a truly solid PG, I think they might have something really good going for them.
He's definitely a physical specimen
Things I like:
Uses his body well
On defense, this was evident in his post defense of Fish (and Deng a couple of times), where he actually demonstrated enough strength to prevent getting backed down at all (bodes well for putting him at the SF in an occasional small ball lineup with Martin and Udrih/Garcia at the guard spots). I liked the fact that he also does so when defending dribble penetration, i.e. he moves his feet to not only keeps guys in front of him, but redirect them with his body.
On offense, his handle is a bit shaky, but he looks for an angle and uses his body well to make a B-line towards the basket (doesn’t try to shake-n-bake) while protecting his dribble.
Runs the floor well
Guys like Tyreke and Derrick don’t need to have the ball in their hands to get good looks at the basket. I like the fact that he still looks to cut, post up, fill a lane on the fast break, etc. To me, that’s a sign of understanding the game when your PG is able to react/feed off of what someone else may be doing especially when he doesn’t have the ball.
Things I don’t like:
Poor perimeter shooter
He should be a soph in college, so this is being a bit harsh. I haven’t seen any other Sac game, but I get the sense that most of his outside shot attempts are stand-still (almost set shots). As a PG, he’ll have to be able to also shoot off of a dribble, but he’ll hopefully develop that over time. To his credit, something like 59% of his shot attempts are at the basket, yet his eFG isn’t as high as I would of expected. This suggests to me that he draws a large crowd when he penetrates, so maybe there are opportunities for dishes that he isn’t seeing (leads to my next point)
Passing
I try to avoid using words like vision, facilitator, etc. b/c I think we all over use them (or over simplify what’s happening). Last night, it seemed like when he made a decision to penetrate, a shot was going up no matter what (albeit not in a Fish kind of way, which is to say he’s confident he can convert a difficult layup in traffic, but a layup nonetheless, so he’s going for it). Some have gotten on Derrick’s case for penetrating and kicking back out to perimeter guys who aren’t hitting, but at least it demonstrates some court awareness while he’s penetrating. They don’t have Martin out there, so maybe that was a factor for Tyreke, but they do have good length on their front line. I would think they’d have a dunk feast with his ability to get to the basket and the length of the guys who should be trailing or cutting for close attempts at the basket.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Nov 18, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He is 6'5" and has a 6'11 1/4" wingspan. My God!!!
I remember being amazed by that at the combine. That’s got to make his “true height” around 6’8"/6’9". Incredible.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
that was my scouting report from last night
he’s friggin’ huge.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 18, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
I didn’t see that much of the game, but every time I turned it on John Salmons was doing something good. Which was weird. Good for him.
funny thing is...
when the Kings were in the game, that arena sounded pretty loud. again, why doesn’t the UC sound like that on tv? is it the acoustics, the broadcast? i mean, i know Arco has always been known as one of the louder arenas, especially earlier in the decade when they were contending, but if there were 13 heads out there, they out-decibled the UC sellout crowds.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Nov 18, 2009 10:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Totaly agree. I hate our fans
Cept u guys. U guys rock.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 18, 2009 10:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hate our fans so much
But ARCO is tiny and it might not be 100% concrete like the UC. Stadiums with obstructed views like the old stadium means a smaller volume for the same number of people.
Like pizza? Me too.
Check out my pizza review site.
You know what's funny?
John Salmons was absolutely TERRIBLE in the first half. There was a 3 minute stretch where he got stuffed on a layup, got beaten at the other end, then got a steal but had it promptly batted away by Evans, then got the ball back on offense and bricked two jumpers before throwing it away on the next possession. I just felt bad for the guy.
Good thing he tore it up in the second half.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 18, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
1st quarter
salmons was 3-4 (including 1-1 3P), 1 block, 1 steal, i wouldn’t call that terrible.
2nd quarter he wasn’t as good, which i think is the stretch you’re referring to.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Yes
the second quarter was what I was referring to. I missed the first 5-6 minutes of the first quarter, that may be why my opinion was a bit skewed.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 18, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
i heard
that rose said before the game that this will be the game that he will be more aggresive and play like old.. guess it didn’t happen that way. so id have to say it’d be the ankle. otherwise i don’t see why he wouldn’t try and attack. though the 2 times i remember him doing so in the second half, it was great. one with a steal and layup and another where he took it strong and kicked out to an open Deng.
everyone else was pretty solid, especially defensively in the 2nd half. i just hope derrick picks it up against Kobe. if he’s scoring 40 when hes hurt, it’d be tough to see him going agist salmons and Kirk tomm. I’m also interested in bynum vs. Noah.. i hope Noah kills him. i see bynum like i see perkins.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
lol
the headline on the recap on nba.com is
“Bulls knock off Kings, get out to best start in 12 years”
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
I know, isn't that insane?
Too bad it’ll be followed by a bucket of losses. Though, I guess we can win a few more on this trip if we hold it down on D and have a hot shooting night here and there.
I can't wait to watch their balls shrink against the Lakers in the 4th quarter.
I’m a ray of fucking sunshine.
oh, that's a no-doubter.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 18, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Rose actually plays very well against the Lakers
That’s the game I’ve been looking at as his breakout game
Rose is going to be guarded by Derek Fisher.
Can we run that play where we iso Rose repeatedly until they do something about it?
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
if point guards keep having breakout games against derrick fischer, can we call him "The Midwife"?
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
by TheMoon on Nov 18, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rose
was much more aggresive.hes wasn’t hitting.But still he was on attack mode.like he was when he was healthy.He better be 100% soon though.He still looks 60-70% to me.Its the ankle he doesn’t look as fast.And when he goes for that layup normally he would just slam it down but he looks lower.Its the ankle im positive.
Salmons looks hurt
His elevation isn’t spectacular when he’s 100%, but last night he was dragging his feet on easy layups. He did have a dunk in the first half when he was pretty open, but on the shots he was challenged he looked like he had a couple of Thanksgiving hams stuck to his feet.
Once again bad shooting from Rose and Hinrich led to yet another great night from Noah. It’s pretty funny that Noah leads the NBA in rebounding on only 33 minutes a night.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
joakim noah: nba's leading rebounder?
who saw that coming???
by iamsasquatch on Nov 18, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Salmons’ wife just had a baby.. maybe he hasn’t been getting enough sleep. We already saw a better Salmons last night at the beginning of the circus trip.. maybe after a few more good nights of sleep we will see him get enough energy to finish around the basket and become the Salmons we are used to. :) Staying positive!
I brought that up a few
weeks ago in here only to have that thought poo pooed.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
rightfully so.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 18, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I remember of talking about that too and I agree whith this theory
But, at the time, some people just answer that most of the NBA players have kids just like Salmons and kept playing nicely.
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Well, have we considered the possibility that Salmons is actually performing his fatherly duties?
Cold, I know.
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Nov 18, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
i.e. Shawn Kemp
didn’t he have 4 kids a year? Still played at an all-star level
by diedaily23 on Nov 18, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Seems like he's playing tired.
not stupid.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 18, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
How has he played stupid?
All he’s been doing wrong is missing WIDE OPEN shots he was hitting last year. Other than that, he’s been playing reasonably well. He’s tied for 5th in the NBA in steals per game… not too shabby.
you're right
he has been missing wide open shots..but you seem to be forgetting his signature play in which he waits for the defender to catch up to him before making his drive to the basket in which there is only option…shoot and pray he gets fouled. Also, I’ve never complained about his defense…
To be fair to Salmons
he’s been doing that dumb “wait for the defender to catch” up stuff since long before he came to the Bulls.
i just think he doesn't explode to the basket
not to say he is super explosive, but instead of going full speed to the rim, letting his momentum give him some elevation, he slows down during his two steps to either draw contact (like on that no-call last night) or let the defender jump right past him (which he does often). so at that point he’s slowed his momentum and trying to get elevation off of just one foot. i’m no sure if he’s hurt. it just seems like his game. and maybe he does need some rest after giving birth.
…not that hr gave birth himself, though that would be nuts. he woulda been in his second trimester during the playoffs. i guess its like sex; you can play into your second trimester. hopefully the baby wasn’t polluted with Del Coacho-speak while in Fish’s womb.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Nov 18, 2009 11:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
If Noah doesn't win most improved player of the year ( assuming he keeps this up)
thats a crime. I think I was reading ESPN and they had Aaron Brooks as the MIP. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/awards?page=awards-091117
I heard frye and kaman
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Nov 18, 2009 10:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
yeah I think I would give it to Channing Frye as of now just because Joakim was pretty good for a long stretch last year. Frye has been in the league for a while and has never even been close to this effective. Also, Aaron Brooks was in the D-League not too long ago.. so there’s been a lot of improvement there too. I couldn’t argue against any of these 3 players. Kaman shouldn’t get most improved.. maybe comeback player or something.
You're right, Noah isn't on the ballot
but I don’t think it’s a big deal. He’d be listed as a center, and there’s no way that he’d beat out Dwight Howard. The coaches select the bench, and if Noah is averaging a double-double (as well as leading the league in rebounds) he’s guaranteed to be an all-star.
thats what write-in votes are for. get to it, Bulls fans!
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Nov 18, 2009 11:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I've been writing
him in every day.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
I didn't watch the game (unfortunately the game started at 3 am here), so...
Can someone tell me how the hell Rose shoot so poorly? I don’t remember the last time he had a performance of 2-12… (I still love him, though)
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
From what I watched of him.. he's doesn't look comfortable.
Either he’s hurt still or out of basketball shape. His confidence is clearly gone for now. He played ok but his shot was short which is either due to his ankle or just lack of focus. I think part of it is mental. I do wonder if there is more behind the story with Rose because it’s starting to look like something is going on in his head. He seems kinda distant to the team I don’t get it. He’s just too quite and of course he has never been really outspoken but I get this weird feeling when I watch his body language that something else besides his ankle is going on. Before the season he was a different guy… upbeat and getting all the attention and now he’s kinda like just one of the guys. It’s really strange.
I just found one explanation for that
NOT BEING ONE OF THE CAPTAINS! What else could it be?
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Yeah I still don't get that but I have no idea maybe he's just still hurt.
But his focus is not there. Something is bothering him.
He admitted on Monday
that he is still hurt.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Penetration/close attempts in the 1st half.....Mostly jumpers in the 2nd half
Low conversion rate on all of his attempts. In retrospect, Sac has good length on their front line (6-11 or greater at SF, PF, & C) and then throw in Tyreke at 6-6, so converting at the basket for him was probably going to be tough going into this game. A few of his attempts at the basket were blocked.
By the second half, there were spurts from the Kings here or there, but the game never really seemed threatened. Nonetheless, the jumpers he did take were way off.
He did end the game with 6 FTAs, which I think was the most for him this season, but I don’t know if that’s a silver lining.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
settled for alot of jumpers
good looks but his shot is uber flat, and theres like a wierd hitch to his motion. Im not an expert on jumpshots but when i was reading books and watching clips online on how to shoot bettr, i think they all talked about having a smooth form, smooth release….right now Roses shot looks like two parts, theres the arm part of the shot which is bringing the ball above his head and aiming, and theres a distinct second part which is the release and follow through. Shooters like ray allen and ben gordon tend to meld the two parts together for a smooth release, roses looks seperate, almost like holding the shoot button in a video game too long….
Someone should be looking into this on the coaching staff…or at the very least telling him to attack the rim…tell him to pick up a few offensive fouls but keep attacking…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
i was at the game last night
he took a lot of jumpers, and they were all flat and short. i’ve seen him make a lot of those shots, even this year. looks like he’s not getting any lift on his jump shot.
i'm hot for teacher
Is there any website where I can get the game against Sac or download games from the Bulls?
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
davka used to post them
but hasnt posted the last couple…i really wanted the game when hinrich had like 17 pts…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
davkabt
just google it…you might have to become a member, and because its like donation time they might be limiting who is allowed for memberships…im not sure…i know about two years ago they were doing that and it wouldnt let me join without giving a donation or something, then 6 months later they were accepting people to register for free…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
ok thanks..
i actually just ponied up for nba league pass international…hoping it gets the job done-watching the Kings game on demand right now
I dont hope its his ankle…actually i hope its just his mechanics and something he can improve on. If its the ankle, then that means he’s injury prone..and that can lead to long term BS..ala Tmac (knocks on wood)..
Shoot, Noah sucked last year till 1/2 way into the season. There is hope
"I think it’s safe to say Noah and Rose are the future."
rose is going to be just fine
the ankle will heal up completely, and he will get back on track….Its way to early to panic about rose.
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 18, 2009 2:56 PM CST reply actions
It's nice that the rest of the team
is playing well while Rose is starting slow. Who’d have thought before the season started that Rose could be playing this poorly (relative to expectations) and the Bulls’ record being this good?
Good News
The good news is that Rose had a bad game, and they still won comfortably. Rose’s issue may be part injury, part condition and part that he plays as hard as he has to for the Bulls to win. Even when he misses he usually takes good shots. Needs to cut down on tos, though. That and no more 3 attempts for Miller.
I love the defense. It keeps them in every game (except Boston). And VDN has realized that having Noah’s defense and rebounding at the end of games is more important than Miller’s offense.
by El Toro de Goro on Nov 18, 2009 5:16 PM CST reply actions
considering that 3 of the 4 bulls loses have been very close, i might amend that "he plays as hard as he has to for the bulls to win" stuff.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
I am watching the game on league pass right now....
and I can’t help but love the sets the Kings are running…now I know they only scored 87, but this is what an NBA scheme looks like. It sets up their less talented scorers to succeed with Kevin Martin out. I really like when they bring Spencer Hawes out to the 3 pt line and send waves of cutters in and then they break off and set screens/back picks to free up players from the other side of the court
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