Open Game Thread #9 OVERFLOW: Bulls vs. Philadelphia 76ers
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2009 9:15 PM CST
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how does pacers ass taste?
D ROSE D WADE DESTINY DYNASTY
by Juan dela Cruz on Nov 14, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
A bit like Miami, Denver and Toronto ass, I imagine.
So you should be able to answer it yourself matey. Heck, it probably tasted like our ass did to you too!
(sorry guys, he asked for it :p)
- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
@DaarisDirk
He probably thought I meant something other than "go Bulls!" :)
It happens.
Anyhoo, yeh @ BooRad16, being above .500 does that ;)
Hope you guys stay there.
- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
@DaarisDirk
wow
captain kirk finally came in to play
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 14, 2009 9:30 PM CST reply actions
now thats what i call balanced scoring,
if this could happen every night we play, we stand a chance to compete with any1 in the league, good job boys!!!
Eat. Sleep. Pray. Watch chicago play.
P.S.
You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you think.
by chi_till_eye_die on Nov 14, 2009 9:31 PM CST reply actions
Gail Fischer is
about as tall as Kirk.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
She's also pregnant.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Good win there guys.
I like how your crew is progressing. Also, I still dig Noah for some silly reason. Must be his spirit, can’t be his face. Ugh.
Anyway, grats on the win!
- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
@DaarisDirk
This big win puts Chicago on the way to once again become known as Titletown USA
But who will be the first team to grab the brass ring?
The Bulls? the Bears? the Cubbies? the sweat Sox? the Hawks?
I’m putting my money on the Fire even though the it looks like the Bulls again have the rookie of the year in the great Taj.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
and the outstanding job by Lovie will likely earn him coach of the year, barely beating out his crosstown rival VDN.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 14, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
The Bears seem to be taking the Reinsdorf approach to team building
As in “acquire one talented player, ignore everything else”.
It’d be nice to see the Hawks win a title, the bandwagon fans haven’t had much to cheer about lately.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Derrick Rose is not an elite player. That's all.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 9:46 PM CST reply actions
List of 21 year old players that are? I'd really love to hear everyone's opinion on this.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
List of young players that look like they're gonna be superstars?
There’s usually a number of em, and Derrick isn’t on that list.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
Glad you guys are analysts cuz the real ones say different...
Rose is struggling after an injury, lets see what happens by Jan 01 – geezus.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
Brandon Jennings looks pretty fantastic and he's a rook. Had a 19.6 PER going into tonight
and he’s in the process of dropping a 40+ point game on the Warriors with efficient scoring. He’s the real deal.
Rose doesn’t have the killer instinct. Still not getting to the line. Still no three point shot. No improvement in his game really at all. I can understand that he’s been banged up, but he’s not even showing the mentality of a guy that’s focused on the things he needs to be focused on.
He’s just too passive.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
Well
Some guys aren’t elite because they don’t have the ability. Rose isn’t elite because he has the wrong mentality. A mentality is a lot easier to change than ability….we need a better coach.
by Stacey_Is_King on Nov 14, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
This post is totally wrong tho',
Rose doesn’t shoot the 3pt shot (even tho’ he should more). He also hasn’t been driving more because the lanes are clogged. That’s something the coaching staff has to work on. He’s improved his jump shot and its more reliable. The problem is with his injury and the lanes being clogged he’s relying on it too much.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions
He's driving now because the lanes are open.If he goes into contact mostly the refs wont call the foul.
He looks a lot better in the 2nd half he is slowly coming back.People just need to be patient (like i said 100 times) lol.
I agree.
The sky is falling. Rose dominated Jennings when he got it going, the guy shits on the Warriors and the peanut gallery is calling for his jockstrap.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh. Jennings was playing well before the GSW game. (19.6 PER)
and he played Derrick pretty even head to head. The rest of the Bulls just outplayed the rest of the Bucks.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
Warriors suck,T-Wolves suck,Knicks suck,76ers suck,Pistons jury still out on that
Only good teams he went up against Denver.Dont get me wrong hes a beast but still.Its early.
The same 76ers that forced Rose into 7 turnovers on his home court? Those 76ers?
He also played well against the Bulls who are a good defense this year (granted, Rose still sucks on D, but the team D is good). Overall the quality of opponents has been a mixed bag and he’s been dominant (for a rookie).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Excuses, excuses. Derrick was supposed to have gotten a 3 point shot over the summer
and he didn’t get it done. He was supposed to have improved his defense, didn’t happen. And if the lanes are so clogged, if Derrick drives in, he’s bound to get hit and get a foul call. He’s just too pussy to go into the clogged lanes.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
Derick's shot how many threes?
LIke 3? LOL. His defense is better this year.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
He's not shooting them because he didn't develop the shot, clearly. If he had it in his
arsenal, don’t you think he’d use it? And no his defense is not really that much better. It’s still pretty terrible. It’s maybe not a total apocalypse like last year, but it’s still bad, bad, bad.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
Hey he's more of a LDeng type jumper and he's hitting it.
There was a post I read over the last week that said Deng and Rose have very high 2pt fg% and if they just stepped back a few feet they’d be deadly esp since they are already shooting from pretty long range.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, if they just step back a few feet it'll be worth more points.
Here’s the problem: they’re not stepping the fuck back and getting the extra points.
If I just grew an extra few inches, I’d be 6’2", but guess what? I’m not.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, no. Deng has been shooting long 2's his whole career
and Deng shoots them pretty well (generally), but they are still the worst possible shot in the entire game of basketball. Now Derrick is taking a ton of them. They are inefficient. Derrick didn’t work on his game enough, because he needed to be hitting 3 pointers this year to create space for himself to drive. He didn’t get it done.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
Dont bother talking to Playboy
he made it obvious, to me, in the last thread he had no clue.
DA CUBS DA BEARS DA BULLS
I just disagree with ya and that's my right.
I don’t think you guys have a clue and are being alarmists but hey…
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I don't know why I bothered. Everytime I've seen him
post, he’s always been misinformed about pretty much everything.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
LOL yeah fuck both of yall.
The shit that you two spew can fill a landfill but hey we’re all Bulls fans.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Just to you two lovers but holla.
Bulls win.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
Ive disagreed with sound multiple times
but then again he makes real points, unlike yourself.
DA CUBS DA BEARS DA BULLS
Dude go to bed.
If you dont agree fine. Not like it will make me sleep any better. I just think you’re wrong and being presumptuous.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
It's not that you don't agree,
it’s that you don’t agree because you don’t agree.
Your opinions – as astoundingly opinionated as they are – are not validated by “fact” or even cursory observation.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
He improved
his mid-range,Do really think that he was going to be Wade after 1 season?With a 2nd year coach who cant call timeouts to save his life?You think that a coach like that can develop Rose?At least wade had Stan van gundy he’s pretty good coach.VDN develop anyone?C’mon
I want us to get Byron Scott. Fuck VDN.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
Scott will develop Rose,Like he did CP3 (not that rose is going to be as good) but still.Rose is the type who wants to learn.
Who the hell wants Scott Skiles 2.0?
Can’t the Bulls you know, get a GOOD coach?
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
The guy got the NETS to the finals
Change of scenery is good.He can develop CP3.And would you have him or VDN?
D'antoni isn't available. We had our chance and Reinsdorf blew it.
I think Scott is a good coach and can fuse the Bulls talent better than VDN. VDN should be like Scott’s assistant.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
I did not like Skiles but...
Skiles has gotten Jennings ass going pretty good…he dropped 55 tonight….so maybe i do want skiles 2.0…a coach who will push players to the brink until they hate him
He was hurt and missed the whole preseason
He was in college for only 1 year.And has to learn on the fly not only that, with a coach whos on HIS 2nd year coaching.Cut him some slack
And Derrick didn't have a 19+ PER in November last season? You're grasping at straws here.
We can lower his ceiling from transcendent star like Paul, James, or Wade. That much may be evident. But, Jennings at this point has no more potential than Rose. If Tyrus Thomas has 4 seasons of wait and see, then I’ll gladly take more than 1 season to see if Rose “gets it.”
Other than Kevin Durant and Brandon Roy, I can’t think of any players under 25 that have shown an ability to dominate games better than Derrick Rose.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
Derrick has the ABILITY to dominate games, but he doesn't have the MENTALITY.
He’s just too fucking deferential. Drives me crazy. And now on top of that, this year he’s banged up (so some of the ability isn’t there) and he’s turning the ball over like crazy (relative to last year).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
turnovers are the biggest problem
…but it can be fixed. don’t panic yet. he will not be a lebron type mvp player (and I wouldn’t rule that out yet), but can be a solid all-star
by bullsfaninbigapple on Nov 14, 2009 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
And Derrick never showed the ability to drop 55 points on 34 shots
in 40 minutes, which is what Jennings pulled off tonight.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
Has he ever had to?
He scored 36 on 19 shots during that first game in Boston so…
Derrick Rose G 49:33 12-19 0-1 12-12 1 3 4 11 6 1 5 0 36
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Why would anybody
take 34 shots?55 points is impressive against the lowly warriors.But yeah hes already ROY its over give it to him NOW
That's an incredible feat, but he's still only played 7 games.
It’s like people taking Rose’s Game 1 and extrapolating some ridiculous career path for him. Every bad game from Derrick alarms me, but I’ll reserve judgment on his mentality until later. To each his own, I guess.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
It's a small sample size admittedly, but Jennings is just electric. He has that it factor.
He’s got swag, and he knows he’s the shit and plays like it. Derrick plays like he’s afraid to step on people’s toes by being too great.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
That's pretty harsh
Derrick and Jennings are point guards. The former is an unselfish one (maybe too unselfish sometimes) while the latter is more likely to look for his own shot.
If Jennings continues to take a ton of shots and hits them efficiently, I’ll give him his due. On the other hand, Fish took a ton of shots last year and hit them efficiently. Now….he takes a ton of shots and can’t hit anything.
Having swag is great for a SG, SF, PF, or C. Having swag and an itchy trigger finger is not something I want in my point guard.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Comparing Fish and Jennings is laughably retarded. Fish is an old guy
who had a fluky season and a half of efficiency and this year has gone back to being the mediocre to bad player he’s always been.
Jennings is a 20 year old rookie, so the comparison doesn’t really hold water.
Arenas had the most swag of anyone in the league and he was dominant from the PG position. There’s more than one way to build a team and having a scoring PG is one good way. Plus, I don’t get this notion that Derrick is this facilitator. His AST% isn’t that high, his vision is average at best. He’s a scoring style PG, but he’s not as good at it (so far) as Jennings has shown himself to be (small sample caveats of course).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
Rose has a higher Ast% than Jennings.
Brandon is not a better facilitator than Derrick. He is amazing at making the highlight pass, but both are pretty bad at executing half-court sets.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
Jennings gets guys easier looks (closer to the bucket).
Jennings also has better vision. I’m not saying Jennings is a better facilitator, just that this notion that Derrick is unselfish and that somehow works in his favor with respect to Jennings is hogwash. Derrick takes a shit ton of shots, but scores inefficiently — because he doesn’t get to the line or make 3 pointers. It’s pretty simple. They are in the same mold, and so far, Jennings does it better. Better on D, better at scoring, and better at not coasting in the corner.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
My only comment to this is
that Drose gets his guys shot but they brick them all the time. Its never wracking. The only time Ive seen them make the best f his passing is during the Boston series and against the Cavs last week.
I almost want Rose to say fuck you, you will just brick it and take it himself but we all know he needs to get everyone involved.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
Areans was fucking fantastic pre-injury. So I don't know what that comment's purpose was.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
What i mean by that is.
How many times has he made it pass the 2nd round.Its not all his fault.Great Player but never made it pass the 2nd round.Im not saying that jennings wont do that.but please tell me how many score 1st point guards win rings?Seriously i dont know.
Tony Parker is a score first guy and he won rings.
Allen Iverson got to the Finals with a team of scrubs being a score first guy.
It’s not the standard model, but it can work.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
Also Greg Popovich coached TP
And Iverson got to the finals with Larry Brown.Haven’t gotten there since.
Right, you need great players to win championships.
This is a truism. Everyone knows that. My point is that you can win a title with a score first PG, you just have to have the right other pieces.
As a big Rose supporter, I would think you’d want a team to be able to win with a score first PG, since that’s exactly what Derrick is.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
We do but we're also like...
he’s not in game shape yet lol. Give him a chance to catch up to speed. Oh do you just not believe him when he says he is still getting there?
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
He might be getting there, but I still want to see the
aggressiveness and the 3 point shot.
Like I said below, if he gets it together, great. I want that. But right now, he looks terrible and that’s all I have to go on.
So I’ll be critical for now, and if he turns it around, I’ll know that he was hurt and that’s why he sucked.
If he continues to play this way, well then we’re screwed.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
04 Pistons had 5 guys none of them were a superstar
Billups averaed the fewest points ever for a finals MVP.They dont need a superstar.Larry Brown a HOF coach led that team and dominated Shaq and Kobe.
They think we're playing fantasty football and can trade for players when they have one big game and
then are mediocre for the rest. Jennings is a good cocky young pg and he does have flair but I’ll take the strong pg who actually has a team behind him so that he doesnt have to shoulder the load. Rose took the burden last season then hit the wall a bit after the new year. However, we still saw him dominate when needed. Hell, he’s scored at least 10 points in the 4th quarter in most of our wins.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
He knows when to turn it on
in the 4th.One doesn’t have to dominate the whole game but when he needs to.He had a slow start last year.But 27 in the 3rd is beastly makes me wonder.How many shots he took that quarter?
I would prefer if Derrick just dominated from start to finish, which is what the greats do.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
There are few that can dominate an entire game on a consistent basis
Expept for MJ and Magic.And Rose is Rose hes part of a team.the TEAM has to dominate as well.Whats wrong with playing your best at crunch-time which all the greats do.
He had 55 points on 34 shots.
That’s pretty #%#@% efficient.
You know how many shots he took in the third? 13. 29 points, 13 shots.
He missed one three-pointer with 5.9 seconds left in the quarter.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
I wish I didn't have work today
I would’ve been watching that game … man.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
I'm not defending Rose 100%. The guy has to improve, it's pretty simple.
But the elite talent is there. And he’s not any worse off than Jennings is. I get the feeling Derrick is too worried about pleasing everyone, especially the coaching staff. He’s trying to be a model player, but the best PGs are risk-takers. You can see his play, it’s trying to do everything perfectly. No one succeeds playing like that, and unfortunately the Bulls don’t have a player or coach who can coax him to relax and play ball.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Wade,CP3,Melo.
All had coaches that can develop them.VDN is a 2nd year coach he cant make him a star.Byron Scott knows how to do that stuff why not bring him along?
LeBron had Mike Brown. Mike. Freakin. Brown. He's still the best in the game.
No excuses, Derrick. Man it the fuck up.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
Derrick is a freak for the PG position. He was actually
called the “LeBron of PGs” by a number of scouts prior to the draft. I’m not buying this excuse. Derrick’s gotta get better.
Also, Wade was already developed when he came into the league (he was 22), so he didn’t need developing.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
The thing and only contention here is that
we got one side ripping Rose and we got another side saying let the dude get in shape and get it going.
I think by January we’ll know what the real deal is. Good or bad.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
If Derrick gets it going, great. That's what I want.
But right now, all I can go on is the fact that he’s playing pretty crap so far this year and I expected at least as good as last year and hoped for improvement.
I’ve seen no improvement, even on things that don’t require perfect health (like the 3 point shot he supposedly worked so hard on).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
TBH, I didn't hear anything about his 3pt shot
I did hear about his shooting overall and he is a better shooter from distance than he was his rookie year. I would like to see him drive more and open the lanes. The 3pt shot tho, until he starts shooting it, is up in the air.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
The funny thing about Derrick's jumper's supposed improvement
is that it’s not true. Last year he shot 41.9% (eFG) on jumpers, which accounted for 60% of his total shots. This year he’s shooting 39.2% on jumpers and they account for 70(!)% of his total shots. So he’s shooting more jumpers and he’s shooting worse on them.
Check it out: http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI1.HTM
(2008-09)
and
http://www.82games.com/0910/09CHI1.HTM
(2009-10)
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
ive been relly critical of derrick so far,
but one thing i will say is this year rose has taken the “jump” out of “jump shot”. im guessing thats injury, and might be why hes not converting jumpers at as high a rate.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
So you are saying
That Rose atheletically is close to lebron’s?Im sorry but i cant go with that.We have seen a 6’7 PG in magic.I dont even like lebron but he is more of a FREAK than Rose will EVER be! 6’8 about what 260!!Rose is NOT that!There are guys that are as tall as Rose and are physical.But ther is no one,I repeat NO ONE that is as heavy and as tall as LBJ and be that damn fast NOBODY.Although LBJ to me lacks the fundamentals. His Beastlyness is just well beastly.
How can you show the ability to do that?
Either you do it or you don’t. But quite frankly, when Rose gets going, it doesn’t seem like he’d ever have a problem scoring as many as he wants
by Stacey_Is_King on Nov 15, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
agreed
a lot of it could be our offensive sets and/or his injury. But it was like this last year too.
Dude he's just having a slow start.
I don’t think he’s healthy yet. He missed the whole preseason give the guy a break.
Unsung hero slow drawing gunslinger, Brad Miller was plus 30 in 29 minutes.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
Its good to see Rose
Balance his shooting with his driving now.He needs to do it more often.And not do too much but enough to help the team win.Great team effort from everyone
its the Warriors lol
not the Celtics or even the fucking Twolves. Nelson should fuckn retire.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
goddamit
golden state is still in this
by darksmokepuncher on Nov 14, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
born and raised in chicago
currently living in Milwaukee
by darksmokepuncher on Nov 14, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
bulls and bucks win
I’m a happy man
by darksmokepuncher on Nov 14, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
besides, its still really early in the season
it would be different if the bulls were fighting for a playoff spot.
but I damn sure don’t want to see such an awesome performance go to waste in a loss against the warriors
by darksmokepuncher on Nov 14, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
Uh oh he's better than CP3!
CP3 hasn’t scored 50 this year, neither has Arenas. OMG. Kobe didnt score 50 as a rookie!
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
At least Bulls fans have someone legit to pine over
Better than the wildly overrated Russell Westbrook.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
I'm happy with Rose and I'm sure come December we'll see him turn it up a notch,
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not going to freak out. I've watched plenty of "can't miss" prospects flame out here.
Jay Williams was far more hyped than Derrick ever was, and he sucked his rookie season, and was a far bigger bitch than anyone assumes Rose is.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
Oh yeah we got hyped anytime JWill had a good game cuz we wanted him to do well.
Rose is showing way more promise than JWill plus he’s expanded his game. I’d like this team to get a better and more reliant offense scheme though.
by Playboy_Bull on Nov 14, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
his thoughts?
ate Wednesday night in Toronto, Derrick Rose uttered the following in such a matter-of-fact manner that it almost downplayed the severity of its importance.
“There’s no room to drive,” Rose said.
Anyone who has watched the Bulls’ first eight games has noticed Rose isn’t attacking the rim with the same regularity as last season. He has had flashes, no doubt: The fourth quarters at home against the Bucks and visiting the Cavs come to mind.
“Toronto made it real clear they wanted us shooting jump shots, so they were really forcing us and baiting us to come and drive,” Rose said.
Of Rose’s 47 field goals this season, 17 have come on either short floaters in the lane or fast-break layups or dunks. Thirty are on jumpers. In the loss to the Nuggets, Rose’s 10 field goals came on nine jumpers.
That’s a far cry from last season when Rose seemed to get to the rim at will. The Bulls still run primarily high screen-and-roll to try to free Rose, but more often than not, defenses are flushing Rose to the side off screens, forcing the Bulls to get ball reversal to get shots.
“I might be seeing a little more attention this year,” Rose said. “But mostly it’s because of my ankle and not being in good game shape to start the season. I’m not worried about it.”
Rose has commented that he has been out of shape
and that the ankle is bothering him? I guess i haven’t been reading the news.
55 points for Jennings. I'm going to safely say Monta Ellis sucks massive, massive shit at defense.
And only 20 minutes for Anthony Randolph. Fuck you Don Nelson.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
they kept falling for the screen and roll all night
by darksmokepuncher on Nov 14, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
The whole franchise doesn't give a crap about anything.
The players are all completely selfish, the coach is a drunk, and the owner is a cheap bastard. It’s pathetic. Giving up 55 points to a freaking rookie?
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
7/8 from3
D ROSE D WADE DESTINY DYNASTY
by Juan dela Cruz on Nov 14, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Amazing, and he was picked 10th. TENTH.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
GMs are risk averse and his numbers in the EURO league were CRAP.
Plus, he did a bad job of showing up to workouts so teams had little to go on. He’s frakin’ awesome tho.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly, if I were a GM, I probably wouldn't have drafted him. I would however have drafted Ty Lawson
who is also pretty stellar so far off the bench for the Nuggs. (Another guy with a ridiculously high PER and TS%).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
I would have happily taken him over Flynn, Curry, DeRozan, or Jordan Hill.
All top 10 picks, all with a built-in ceiling. Donnie Walsh is especially stupid for not just taking the most potential-laden player. Especially since they have the coach for Brandon, and NY is apparently still in the LeBron sweepstakes.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I liked Lawson more than Jennings just because he had a demonstrated track record of excellence.
But yeah, now that I think about it Hill, Flynn, DeRozan did nothing for me. Curry I thought could be very good (still do), but he’s got a long ways to go to get an NBA body that can play with the men in the league on a nightly basis. Right now he looks like a 12 year old out there.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
We'll see if he can bulk up, but I doubt that frame improves.
It’s pretty amazing how few transcendent players there have been since that 03 draft, or maybe this is just standard ebb and flow of young talent.
In 2003, we got Wade, Bosh, Melo, James.
Since then, the true elite talents? Dwight Howard and Chris Paul. Brandon Roy and Kevin Durant are in that next level, maybe someone like Deron Williams.
It seems like the superstar potential is dwindling, and there’s just a bunch of really good, but not great players.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
Next year's draft will have John Wall, though.
And also Derrick Favors. Then in 2011, Harrison Barnes and Brandon Knight. In 2012, Mike Gilchrist. Hopefully these guys all pan out like they should. Wall is going to be incredible. He’s the most athletic PG I’ve ever seen by far (and that includes Baron Davis in his prime). Really, he looks to me a lot like D-Wade, only he plays point. The guy is going to be special to watch in college this year.
People are comparing Wall to an ambidexterous Rose and Barnes
to Kobe from what I’ve read. I don’t know much about Knight, Gilchrist, and Favors (besides that he’s a PF).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'll be watching every one of Wall's games this year, so I'll report back at some point.
But I’ve watched a shitload of his highlights, and he looks to me like an even more athletic D-Rose. He’s also, yes, ambidextrous, plays faster, is more assertive, and more vocal on the court. He’s going to absolutely tear up college basketball under Calipari at Kentucky this year.
I haven’t seen much of Barnes, but I’ve heard the Kobe comparisons as well. Sounds like he has great size and explosiveness, all while being an incredibly smooth and efficient scorer. I’m excited to see him play next year at UNC.
Favors is an absolute beast from what I’ve seen. Most scouts seem to have him pegged as the #2 pick behind Wall in 2010. I haven’t seen much of him, though.
Gilchrist, from everything I’ve read, is said to be the best prospect in all of college basketball. Jerry Meyer of Rivals has compared his explosiveness and style of play to Dwyane Wade. I’ve been hearing about him for years, so I’ll be glad when he finally arrives on the college scene in 2011. Seems to be a can’t-miss superstar though.
Knight is an absolutely ridiculous scoring PG. His athleticism isn’t on the level of Rose or Wall, but he’s a way better shooter and can score in pretty much unlimited ways (from what I’ve seen and read). He’s also apparently an incredibly smart kid (4.0+ GPA), so you’d have to imagine that translates to a fantastic basketball IQ. Rivals actually has him ranked #1 in the 2010 class, just above Harrison Barnes.
Regardless, it appears there’s at least a couple of superstars on the horizon. Wall should be next in line. I think Wall is going to end up being the type of player that we all wished Derrick would be, sadly enough.
True, John Wall figures to break the mold.
It’s just kind of odd that 3 can’t miss prospects (Rose, Beasley, Mayo) are just so….disappointing. Oden’s been a bust (relative to his potential).
Shit…John Wall. Time to watch some highlights on YouTube.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not ready to totally close the book on Rose or Beasley.
I was never that high on Mayo. Beasley needs to go work in the post more, he’s a little too in love with his 3 ball, but he’s still a big guy with skills.
Derrick is still a freak. He just needs to get his body right and get his head right. He’s just pissing me off while he gets it together.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
I've never been so frustrated watching anything sports-related in my life
as watching Derrick sometimes. Just the feeling knowing that he can DOMINATE whenever he wants, yet he never seems to want to, is so tough to watch as a fan. It’s also an indictment on Vinny, and if he doesn’t have Rose killing it on the court by the end of the year, then he should be canned. Rose’s development should be priority #1 for this organization, because if he doesn’t become a superstar, or hell, even a star, this franchise is completely screwed for years to come if we don’t lure one of the big FAs here next summer.
Yep. Agreed on all points.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
His passiveness
was bothersome last year at times as well. But remember that badass Golden State game where he was shushing the crowd in the 4th quarter? Or that Jazz game? Or the Celtics game 1? Where is that killer instinct every game?!?! Arrrgh, so frustrating.
Is it this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw
Cause that one is ridiculous.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yes!
I messed up on the link. But seriously, have you ever seen anything like this guy at the PG position? He makes in-his-prime Baron Davis look ordinary. I’m excited to see how he does in Cal’s system in comparison to Rose and Evans. He debuts Monday night vs. Miami (OH), so I’m sure there will be some wicked highlights.
And also, keep an eye on his fellow frosh PG at Kentucky, Eric Bledsoe. He dropped 24/7/4 last night in his college debut in Wall’s absence (suspension), and had some absolutely ridiculous plays. The guy is only 6’ tall but is built like a monster and is insanely quick. His vertical is also ridiculous, and he already might be the best shot-blocking point guard I’ve ever seen aside from Wall.
Check out this shot Bledsoe hit last night. Looked like something straight out of D-Wade’s highlights:
I saw that shot earlier today. Totally ridiculous.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
What's also ridiculous
is that the Jazz have the Knicks’ unprotected 1st rounder in 2010. It’s be absolutely hilarious if they win the Wall sweepstakes. That would mean D’Antoni missed out on Rose by not coming here, Jennings by Walsh’s stupidity, and then Wall by Isiah’s ineptitude. Pretty hilarious.
Yeah, that would be nuts.
As I mentioned earlier, I can’t believe Walsh wiffed on both Jennings AND Lawson. Jennings is excusable if only because there was a lack of film on him from last year, but Lawson? He had been at UNC and dominated the entire time he was there. He was/is a perfect fit for D’Antoni ball. He can shoot the crap out of the ball, is lightning quick, and is smart as hell with the ball.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
It's a joke that Lawson went as low as he did.
As you said, the guy never turned it over, is fast as hell with the ball, AND shoots three pointers at a decent clip. What more could you want from a PG? Who gives a shit about his height? Not to mention he won a national title and played at an extremely high level for an elite program his entire time during college. He should have been a top 10-pick without a doubt. I’m beginning to think Walsh is just a bad GM. D’Antoni must be feeling miserable these days, especially with C-Du playing as horrendous as he has been lately. I hope you saw Lawson posterize Mbenga last night in the 4th quarter. It was all kinds of awesome.
Oh yeah, I was watching when Lawson threw it down.
It was nuts. Wade on Varejao all over again. I love Lawson. I was hoping the Bulls might draft him to back up Derrick and then ship Kirk off to Siberia…I mean, Minnesota or Portland. Alas, Pax drafted James Johnson who looks pretty terrible so far.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
GarPaxDorf*
lest I forget, Pax is no longer the GM, cause he got “promoted.”
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah.
I’m amazed how bad JJ has been. I know he hasn’t played much so he really hasn’t been able to get in a rhythm, but it seems like every time he shoots, it’s a complete fucking brick. I like him and I was happy with us picking him there, but damn, I thought his stroke would be looking better than it has so far.
Side note, but I wonder if drafting a guy like Lawson would have pushed Derrick to be more aggressive than he is now? Because every time Lawson comes off the bench, he’s an absolute fireball with a motor going 120 mph at all times. If Derrick played with that sort of intensity, he could be an absolute force in this league. Instead, he’s comfortably in a starting position and it doesn’t seem like the coaching staff gives a shit how he performs out there. Alas…
I don't know. Derrick has been playing this way
his whole career. It was in his scouting report around draft time and even when he was recruited to Memphis, I believe, that he had a tendency to float and not dominate consistently when he was clearly the best player on the floor.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just afraid he'll never change.
It seems to me like the alpha-dog mentality is built in. And if you don’t have it from birth, then uhh, I guess you’ll never have the dog. Quite discouraging, because if Derrick doesn’t find the inner beast in him, the Bulls are going nowhere for a very, very long time.
This is my concern also.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
wow. that was awesome.
really long arms. what a ball handler too. that weird dribble he did at about 1:10 in the video was phenomenal.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
2003 was a strange year. You had Wade (4 year college player),
Bosh (played in college for a bit), Melo (1 and done wonder) and James (straight outta HS phenom). Nowadays you almost never see that odd mix of top talent coming out at once. Usually a guy as good as Wade leaves one and done or two and done at the most. No more HS phenoms come up like LeBron cause of the NBA’s new rule. I just think that was the perfect confluence of factors that lead to a transcendent draft.
I think that there are some guys who will end up being in that class though, but they haven’t been in the league long enough yet for people to feel comfortable talking about them like that. Kevin Durant is a guy like that. I think Brook Lopez will end up being the best C not named Dwight in the league pretty quickly. He’s just too big and too skilled not to succeed (he was already awesome last year).
But yeah, I don’t think we see another draft like 2003 for quite some time, which makes sense. That’s why it was a transcendent draft, because it was such a rare thing.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
And, consider what could have been if the Pistons didn't completely mismanage Darko.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
And by "completely mismanage" I hope you mean "draft."
Darko was going to suck regardless. Guy is just a stiff.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
For real.
That was the most inexcusable draft pick in recent memory. Not ONLY did he whiff on Melo, but he whiffed on Wade as well. How is that even possible for a guy who has played/watched basketball his entire life? And one who is being paid to make those types of decisions? Gah.
I know. Melo was the most hyped player in college basketball in a long time
and he lived up to the hype! He carried Cuse to a national title as a freshman. What more could Joe D have wanted? And Wade was a beast. I wanted the Bulls to draft him, but he didn’t make it to the 7th slot, so we were stuck with Captain Clank. Maybe that’s why I resent Kirk so much. He shoulda been Wade.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
Oh man.
How horridly depressing is that? We wanted D-Wade, only to find that Kurt was the BPA after Wade was off the board. Wow, that’s depressing.
I remember hearing a rumor, I can't remember where now
that the Bulls had a chance to move up to select Wade, but Riley wanted our pick and Donyell Marshall and the Bulls turned him down.
I don’t know how true that is, but whenever I think about it… I get really pissed.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
and there was this from Sam Smith, pre 2003 draft:
Wouldn’t you know it. NBA executives and scouts generally regard the 2003 NBA draft as a six-player draft. And the Bulls have the seventh pick.
The best player expected to be available there is Marquette shooting guard Dwyane Wade, a 6-foot-5-inch junior who is regarded as more of a slasher and scorer. It’s also possible Texas point guard T.J. Ford, targeted by most NBA scouts at the end of that supposed top six, could be available for the Bulls.
But their problem is they hardly need another point guard, especially one who’s 5-10. And though Wade is an appealing prospect, he doesn’t fit the Bulls’ needs with Jamal Crawford bidding for shooting guard time when he’s not playing point guard, and Jalen Rose at shooting guard.
Sam Smith, everybody! Smh.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
link:
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-8965036_ITM
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
There was also a rumor Pat Riley wanted to draft Chris Kaman.
And the Heat scouts talked him out of it.
It was a pretty big surprise Wade was taken 5th. I remember everyone talking like it was a done deal the local kid would become a Bull.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 15, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Superstars by definition
..don’t come around every year with regularity.
by bullsfaninbigapple on Nov 14, 2009 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
It's also amazing to me that Walsh missed on TWO guys that would have fit perfect
in D’Antoni’s system. Could you imagine either Lawson or Jennings in that system? The speed, the smarts, the shooting ability of both of them. Makes no sense that they opted for Jordan Hill over either of those guys. Hill had stiff written all over him.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
I took him ninth in my fantasy league
and am laughing ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.
I would have picked him with any pick past 1, I think. Beyond 1 there really wasn’t proven talent.
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
And since when
does Skiles let a player take 34 shots?
There are really only two plays: Romeo and Juliet, and put the darn ball in the basket.
-- Abe Lemons
When there's no one else on the team to shoot?
Skiles coached Ben Gordon, he’s not immune to 1-man offenses.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Apparently, he really likes Jennings.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Skiles played in Europe at the end of the career
I think he kind of admires Jennings for having the guts to go over to Europe as an 18-year old and take his lumps. I saw a quote from him last week talking about how it’s common for veteran players to go to Europe and struggle, so of course it should have been expected that Jennings would struggle over there.
Man, it really hurts that Jennings is already better thatn Rose for some reason
Can’t quite put my finger on why, cause I think we have the better team and better opportunities going forward, but I’m really pissed off.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
Because Jennings has superstar written all over him and they got him with the 10th pick
when we spent a first overall on Derrick and he’s not as good. Also, we have to watch Jennings play against us 4 times a year and see what a real badass with swag looks like running a team.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
Also. is Derrick really soft
Think about it. He cried in a game like two times last year. He appears to be totally frightened to go inside. Every time he get bumped or tossed a little he really looks bothered and this injury is reeking havoc on his game
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 14, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Oh noes, we got the Luol Deng / Adam Morrison of point guards.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Against Golden State one time, then I forget the other
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 14, 2009 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
Against the Pistons. McDyess set a screen and hit him in the nose with his shoulder.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah man, I'm with ya.
Tonight’s performance by him (and Derrick’s in comparison) was a total dagger. Shit.
I thought you were crazy when you first said that a few weeks ago
After tonight . . . not so much. Rose is probably more physically gifted, but I sure wish he had Jennings’ attitude. Of course, going to Europe for a year and playing for Scott Skiles sure helps. Rose is no better than he was his first day of training camp as a rookie.
Speaking of improving since their rookie year...
Can you think of one Bulls draftee that’s added any skilled move since becoming a pro? Noah, Tyrus, Deng, Gordon, Hinrich… maybe their jumpshots have improved slightly, but as far as skilled moves go, they’re the same players they were in college.
Noah has added a hook shot and improved his footwork. He's added an okay (albeit unorthodox) jumper.
But to your general point, yes the Bulls suck at player development.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
It comes down to coaching
Rose has shown 0 improvement so far, offensively or defensively. How much is the Bulls’ coaching staff pushing him to get better? Even after putting up 55 points, I guarantee you Jennings will get chewed out by Skiles tomorrow for some defensive rotation he missed or something. That’s where the European experience helped – Jennings played for hardass coaches over there. He wasn’t coddled in college like a lot if the one-and-done players are, so he probably has an easier time accepting the tough love than a lot of players do. That may change as Jennings becomes an established NBA star, but right now he’s hungry as hell to show the league how good he is.
The European play also helped Jennings on the defensive end. He actually knows how
to defend the nuances of the pick and roll, whereas Derrick was totally clueless on that end (and largely, still is) which is what happens when you play college ball against kids you’re way better than that don’t even run the PnR at all.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
And the fact that Derrick is
still clueless on defending PnRs is, well, just another indictment on Vinny and his staff.
Yeah. I can't get on Vinny too much for it though. The rest of the team is defending well.
If everyone else can get it, and Derrick can’t I’m willing to start placing some of the blame on Derrick “Ummmmm” Rose.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
I was kind of thinking the same as well, actually.
I forgot to put in the caveat that I do give Vinny credit for the way the rest of the team is playing defense. The team defense being played by Deng and Noah, especially, is about as good as it gets. Maybe Derrick just isn’t picking up on whatever Vinny is preaching? If so, that’s kind of scary.
There's lots about Derrick's start to this season that scares me.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
The rest of the team has already shown they can play defense.
Why are you giving credit to Vinny? Kirk and Deng were top-tier defenders before. Noah and Tyrus have consistently led the team in D-Rtg. Replacing Gordon automatically makes the D a little better as well.
There’s only one player who needs a lot of development, and he’s not getting better. The Bulls cannot develop players with loads of potential. They failed on Tyrus, and we’re going nowhere fast with Rose.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 15, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
It hurts because the guy we're supposedly basing our team around
has played like a complete bitch this season – sloppy, unaggressive, and scared – and Brandon Jennings is demonstrating the aggressiveness we only wish Derrick had.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Also, is is it me, or is the media afraid to call out the elephant in the room?
Which is, of course, Derrick’s passiveness. I mean, we let Gordon go because, supposedly, Derrick was going to step up and lead us in scoring. He’s been abysmal, but it seems that barely anyone outside of the blogosphere is talking about it.
Yeah, I don't get it. Even Kelly Dwyer, who is usually spot on in his BtBs
especially with respect to the Bulls (because he’s a fan), has yet to call out Rose’s passiveness.
It’s been an issue going all the way back to last year and it’s worse this year. I don’t get it. I mean I know the NBA and adidas have given him the anointing oil treatment, but it doesn’t mean he should be immune from criticism.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ZgxtYZZkM
What’s also so alarming is that Derrick doesn’t even look like he enjoys the game this year. I can’t think of one time where he’s let out a scream or showed any sort of emotion after making a good play. It’s sad and depressing, really.
even better highlights from that one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6naB2At8vC0
I remember it well. I don’t see that guy anymore.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
It's weird.
You would think with BG gone, he would naturally want to be even more aggressive on offense. Not even close, though.
This thread is really, really depressing me. Who would have thought he would regress so quickly? Yeah, we can blame the injury, but it’s more than that. His demeanor is very troubling this year. It just doesn’t seem like he’s enjoying playing out there, and that’s not a good thing in the least.
Okay, I just watched those and nearly shed a tear.
Him shushing the crowd is amazing. WHERE IS THAT GUY?!?!??!?!
That guy is on a milk carton right now.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather he not play, really, if he's gonna be like this.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I don't either. He's a shell out there.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Seriously - enough with the kid gloves. VDN has to tell him:
Derrick, you’re playing like a scared bitch, and we need you to be aggressive. We need you scoring 20ppg come hell or high-water.
And if he can’t take it? Then he isn’t the player we thought.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Final post of the night: Fuck John Salmons, and fuck Jannero Pargo.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
PS, I still love you Derrick. Plz get better kthxbai
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
way too much hating on D Rose in this thread!
by bullsfaninbigapple on Nov 14, 2009 11:33 PM CST reply actions
7 TOs for D Rose and an otherworldly performance from a rookie PG in the division will do that.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
You're right, but i think you guys are over-reacting
by bullsfaninbigapple on Nov 14, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
I'll admit to probably overreacting, but (1) Brandon Jennings was amazing tonight (so forgive me if I'm extra critical of Rose, it's human nature)
and (2) Derrick had another inefficient scoring night where he didn’t get to the line and turned it over waaaay too much.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
7-12 seems pretty efficient to me
though I agree 7 To’s is way too high, but his shooting efficiency seems good in this one, no?
by bullsfaninbigapple on Nov 14, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
14 points on 12 shots is not that efficient. He needs to be getting to the line.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
Look:
you talk about yourself as an MVP caliber player, you take the money and the fame, you better try. I’m not even pissed that he’s not delivering. I’m pissed that he’s not trying to deliver.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
He said, as a rookie, his goal was not just to win RoY, but to be the MVP.
He said the same thing this year (without the bit about RoY). He has also said if you’re not trying to be the best out there, there’s no point in being on the court.
Yet, he doesn’t play like he feels that way. Jennings does.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 14, 2009 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, it doesn't even remotely look like Derrick is trying to be the best out there.
His actions certainly don’t back up his words, that’s for sure.
Jennings interview after the game tonight:
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2009/11/14/20091114_mil_jennings_arenalink.nba/
This guy’s mentality is awesome. “They kept going under the screens and I didn’t shoot in the first half. In the second half, they kept doing it so I said ‘they can’t keep disrespecting me like that.’”
Whereas Rose says
“Toronto made it real clear they wanted us shooting jump shots, so they were really forcing us.”
What can he do? They made it real clear what they wanted him to do!
yikes
u guys are really letting loose on derrick rose….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 15, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
He's played like a scared puppy dog. He talks a big game and he hasn't delivered.
Time to man up, Derrick.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
I can only speak for myself, but I'm more frustrated with Vinny
I can’t imagine any other coach being okay with Derrick taking this many jumpers. It’s just so obvious that’s not how he’s effective.
I wish Vinny was miked for that Toronto game. “Guys, can you believe it? They’re letting us take open jumpers. They’re playing right into our hands.”
by YaoPau on Nov 15, 2009 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I hope so. Young fella needs to sack up.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
And people need to realize we're not trying to hate on him.
I love the guy. He’s awesome to watch. I would love nothing more than to see him succeed. He has it in him, it’s just a matter of consistently. It just looks like he doesn’t care.
Exactly. It's not "hating" to expect a guy to play like the player you know he's capable of being.
It’s demanding excellence and, most of all, effort. I don’t see it with Derrick lately, and as a result, I’m pissed off.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
And, as discussed, Derrick talks about wanting to be one of the greatest ever
…which, seemingly, means he demands excellence for himself. That’s not going to be achieved when every time you drive into the line you kick it out to Brad Miller or Kirk Hinrich for a 22 foot jump shot. Or when 50% of the time you bring the ball up court you pass it off and then go stand in the corner.
To sum the thread:
Derrick, please play like you can, and destroy souls. And if you can’t right now, rest, get better, don’t make us watch you play like crap.
Signed,
Bulls fans
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
by Prevenge on Nov 15, 2009 12:13 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yep. Pretty much.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
sophmore slump?!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 15, 2009 12:34 AM CST up reply actions
Thats been known to happen.It happened to Melo
People questioned his abillites to be a star.and look what happened now.Except they are not whining after 9 games like some people.No disrespect.Im just saying what i feel
There's no way that Rose is going to continue to be this bad
He didn’t forget how to play basketball over the offseason. What’s really troubling, though, is that Rose has shown no signs of improvement. Is he going to become a franchise player, or will he be just another good point guard? If it’s the latter, the Bulls are absolutely fucked, because all their plans (from attracting free agents to the draft) require that Rose become a franchise player.
Alright im doing it
IM guaranteeing this…ROSE GOES CRAZY NEXT GAME, CRAZY IN THE GOOD WAY!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I'm not worried about Rose 9 games into the season.
The James Johnson pick is kinda bothersome right now. Ty Lawson is contributing to Denver in a big way. He can hit threes and do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxYAiHqcuRI
Its amazing
On how many people gives a bad rap on the kid after one year just because Jennings scored 55 and Rose is struggling early again.Great SO WHAT!!! Thats very impressive but i say this.Anybody can score, yep i said it anybody can score.I dont want my point guard taking 34 shots period.Thats what good SGs do.PG 1st thing to do is to move the ball around.Rose after 8 GAMES!!! is struggling.But it was that same last year.He will get better.The PGs job is to orchestrate the offense.Not blindly take shot after shot.Im sure if jennings didnt play as well as he did there wouldn’t ANYONE just blindly punching the guy.They would say that he has to play better but its early.But the fact that people are pissed after 8 FREAKIN GAMES!And all of a sudden wants him to become Jordan overnight is rediculous! If he was playing like this in the to the all star break then yeah go ahead rip him.But after 8 GAMES?! Are you kiddin me?Maybe Having MJ spoiled you guys.Acting like hes playing like the worst player ever after 8 games.Im sorry but that sounds deserate and impatience.jennings this jennings that.Scoring is not everything.Tell that to Gilbert Arenas who is electric that hasn’t won jack.Next thing you know you probably want to trade him for Carlos Arroyo,Or Sebastian Telfair.Man never seen people panic over 8 games theres no reason for it.I dont care if Jennings scores 100 (that would be awesome) There is no excuse after 8 Games.All-star break yes but now?Hell no.
teams have adjusted to Rose.
Shut down the drive and make the other guys beat you. Thats the formula until the Bulls bring in an All-Star.
Thank you
I have been saying that forever.They know who he is now.Rose seem to hit the jumper more because he is shooting.But hes driving in much more against the 6ers.Which is a sign that he is slowly getting healthy and coming back into the player we all know.But the fact that people want him with a coach who only did for 2 years to be all of a sudden the MJ of point guards.I dont want him taking 34 shots PGs dont do that and expect to win in the long run.And after this year teams will adjust to jennings and slow him down as well.Like I said.I rather have a good coach.Who believes in team play and have 5 good TEAM players like the 04 pistons rather than having.A superstar a sidekick and other mediocre players. that 04 team dominated the lakers there was no superstar only TEAM I doubt the Bulls staff looks at things like that.Im 21 and I believe in it.I wonder if that says something.That being said Wade or bosh looks nice.get one of them and you are a contender.And it can help Rose get better.Im not worried after 9 games.But there is a such thing as a sophmore slump it can happen.
yea ill add to that
Rose plays on a team with no real low post threat, i mean yea noah can dunk the ball, but thats not the same as having a low post threat…this isnt to say dominant low post threat…just an option…not only that but since we lost bg we have no outside threat either..teams are having an easy time adjusting to rose deny him penetration, and he kiks it out and then what…everyone just man up…the bulls are the worst offensive team in the league…and its not just cuz of rose. IM not taking anything away from jennings, what hes doing is remarkable, but question his potential. I dont question roses potential one bit. I dont think its just knowing when to score, cuz he knows he has to score in the 4th and does so, people talk about how hes not learning anything, i think he is ..people forget how hes already surpassed what we thought he would be. No one…NO ONE…thought he would be ROY last year….in summer league…he looked like garbage…then suddenly he steps on the court and everyone searches for their breath…
People thought rondo would outclass him, and rose matched him move for move….they say he has no defense, in the playoffs and already this year he has made clutch defensive plays that led to victory….jennings scored alot…yea its big…but alot of people score alot i want rose to transcend just scoring….i want him to be the center of this team…and he has the potential to be that.
Rose has played 1 preseason game, he has played 9 regular season games in where often he is the one defenses are focusing on, he has played heavy minutes on a sub par offensive team, he was limited time to prepare for the season, and it hasnt been a month since this season has started…the way the kid has produced in the last year…ill give him all the benefit of doubt he wants….at least for now….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Not having Ben Gordon is affecting Rose to this point.
He will make the necessary adjustment, but for all the fools who thought Gordon’s game hindered Rose please realize that Gordon helped him more than you know. He saw to it that Rose would never receive an excessive amount of defensive attention from the other perimeter defenders. With Salmons being as inconsistent as he is to this point he is not helping Rose at all.
Gordon was a weapon himself (has anyone noticed this guy has started out the season on fire and is looking like an all-star guard in the early going).
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 1:40 AM CST up reply actions
And notice that Bg isnt even leading in scoring
Rip hamilton is.I dont want to say BG is all star material cause he can score.But thats it.Anyone can score.But it seems that he is passing more.
"anybody can score"
How many rookies have scored 55 points in a game? It’s a very short list, and it consists mostly of Hall of Famers.
Its impressive very impressive.But anyone CAN score
But freakin Duhon scored over 30 before and he sucks,Tyrus thomas had a few of those big nights and hes not a scoring machine himself.Anybody CAN score i never said that it wasn’t impressive.What Jennings did was beastly.He is like a shorter Arenas great scoring PG.But how many PGs shoot 34 times?I dont want that from my point guard.Im suprised that Jennings scored as many as he did but im not suprised that he gets a couple of big nights.
They only have two scoring options right now, Jennings and Bogut. Redd is out.
When your team is struggling for offense and you have a great PG, you want your PG taking shots, especially if he’s making them.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I ask again. What made ANYBODY think that Rubio would be a better NBA player than Jennings?
Jennings obviously won’t score like this all the time. He’ll have his share of 6 and 8 pt games. But how could anyone have seen this guy in high school or playing AAU ball and thought for one second that Rubio would be better based on some behind the back passes he made in some highlight reels and a 6 pt game against Team USA?
I ask again, does anyone really think Jennings couldn’t have scored 6 pts and handed out 6 assists against Team USA?
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 1:43 AM CST reply actions
Then again,
Jennings is shooting a crazy high %.
Who could’ve predicted his shooting to be so … so good?
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
His form has improved a lot since Europe. He's not kicking his legs out as frequently.
He also gets higher on his jump and has a higher release point than Derrick does. His shot has a lot more arc, Derrick’s is still more of a line drive.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 1:54 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah.
But … like … who’d have predicted it?
I mean, when Jennings has a clear line of sight, he’s basically money.
That’s a far cry from shooting some 29.2% in Euroleague [or whatever].
I support the Tornado Release ... and Young Bucks.
I only saw him play about 2 games over there and in those games they...
…had him shooting spot up jump shots. I’m willing to bet they tried to have him do a lot of this.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Anybody who saw the kid play knew he was a better shooter than advertised.
Much the same way Rubio is a worse shooter than advertised. As the basketball world now knows, Jennings is not some spot up shooter who thrives in a motion offense (ala Euro League). Jennings is hell off the dribble. Put the ball in his hands and let him make a decision and that’s where he is at his most deadly….even shooting the jump shot well. Now what I didn’t know was that he’d have NBA 3 pt range right away. But there was no doubt he could shoot the ball much better than most folks gave him credit for.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 1:56 AM CST up reply actions
Why do you keep bringing up Rubio?
How about you bring up the fact that he’s better than Flynn, Curry, and maybe even Derrick Rose? Rubio hasn’t even played in the NBA yet, so it’s a pointless comparison to make for now.
There was a lot of comparison of the two because they were both coming over from the Euro League
and because Jennings specifically said he wasn’t impressed by Rubio and talked a lot of shit about his game, even though Rubio busted his ass when they played head up in Europe.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 1:55 AM CST up reply actions
Rubio is a MUCH better Euroleague player than Jennings. But...
…I’d bet anything that Jennings is a MUCH better NBA player than Rubio. Euroleague isn’t conducive to Jennings style at all but the NBA is right up his alley.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Dude, it was the Warriors
relax. Remember Tyrus’ production against the Warriors?
The Warriors are the Tawny Kitaen of the NBA. Everybody scores with her.
Put Rubio up against the Warrirors defense and he’ll break Skiles’ assist record.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 16, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
So...
You are saying Rubio will be better than Chris Paul? Or any current PG who HASN’T broken Skiles record against the Warriors? Sure it’s the Warriors, but it’s at least as a good a showing as any other player in the NBA will have this year for sure.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Nov 16, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Because I've always thought all those guys are better than Rubio, but...
…I keep bringing up Rubio’s name because that’s who everyone kept saying was better than Jennings because of the way he performed against the same level of competition in Euroleague. I got SICK AND TIRED of people talking about how great Rubio was and talking about how Jennings was going to fail because of this and that. And RUBIO is the one Jennings called out and said he was overrated. Not Flynn, not Curry, not Evans, not Rose. It was RUBIO. I ain’t new to this Illini. I’m a long time Rubio basher…and will continue to be because I don’t think his game translates to the NBA the way many folks do…the same folks who said Jennings wouldn’t be able to play in the NBA. Well, looks like he can. And no it’s not a pointless comparison. Rubio wouldn’t work out with ANY of the American guys and then was disappointed when he slipped to #5. Absolutely comical that he went ahead of Flynn, Curry, Jennings and Lawson. It’s all about the way your game translates and all three of those guys had games that translated to NBA success on some level. I said it before and I’ll say it again. Rubio may some day be as good as Jose Calderson (nothing wrong with that because Calderon is solid), but he’ll never live down being picked ahead of the guys he went before. The bullseye on his back will be massive when he gets to the NBA and I don’t think he can handle the pressure he’ll be under.
And you are right. Jennings keeps this up and it’s not a maybe, it’s a DEFINITE that he will pass Rose. At the rate he’s going, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Jennings get close to being voted in as an all-star starter by the fans. You know D-Wade will get the votes, but who will his backcourt running mate be? Mo Williams, Jameer Nelson, Devin Harris?? Joe Johnson and Ben Gordon stand as good a chance at getting the votes as those 3 guys. Jennings keeps balling and he stands a chance. His buzz is DEFINITELY louder than Rose’s buzz…at least for the time being.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 2:09 AM CST up reply actions
Hey, I'm with you on Jennings
I just think it’s time to get over the whole Rubio comparison and start talking about all the other PGs who were drafted ahead of him as well (and are also playing in the NBA right now: Curry, Flynn, Evans, etc.). It’s a travesty Jennings didn’t go higher than he did, and the fact that the Knicks passed up on this guy is one of the most downright hilarious draft botch-jobs in a long time. Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni must be miserable right now.
100% correct on the Knicks.
And if Rubio or Curry were there at 8 then they would have taken one of the two over Jennings. They bought the “Jennings may not be as good as we thought” thing hook, line and sinker.
We see the buzz he’s generating in MILWAUKEE!!! Imagine if he was a Knick in D’antoni’s offense. Perfect fit!!! I know they kick themselves everyday at this point.
But I cut the others guys some slack though (Curry and Flynn) because they have been formidable as well to this point. And I think Evans will be a superstar pretty soon so I don’t even bring him up. Sacramento won’t be sad that they took him. I just think Rubio copped out so I’m at his ass. Had he been drafted by New York or the Clippers I have no doubt he’d be playing in the NBA right now. Jennings and Flynn are toiling in cold Midwest cities and they ain’t complaining. Just ballin’.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 2:21 AM CST up reply actions
Evans could be a superstar...
As soon as they realize he’s a SG.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Nov 15, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
How do you know Rubio isn't as good as Jennings?
Jennings has played 7 games and is on a hot streak shooting. He’s not going to make 65% of his 3s all year. So you don’t really know how good he is.
And even if he is this good, what’s his ceiling, Tony Parker? Allen Iverson? Rubio could be a Steve Nash-type, great offensively whether he scores or not.
You're severely underrating the importance of Nash's three point shooting to his greatness.
Nash is one of the league’s all-time great shooters. Seriously. Rubio can’t shoot. He’s a terrible outside shooter. Like young Jason Kidd bad. Most of Rubio’s value comes from his preternatural vision and his defense. The vision will still be there in the NBA, but the defense is questionable since he’s built like a 14 year old. Most NBA guards will be able to out physical him.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Shooting 3 is not everything though
TP wasn’t any good at threes and won titles playing the way he did.Its only recently that he can shoot the 3 consistenly.If guys usually drive and take more threes it could throw him off the game.Like MJ said he doesn’t want to line up and take threes alot cause it would throw him off his game.I hate rondo but he cant shoot for shit and hes pretty good.And I agree Rubio is overrated.For PGs they shouldn’t have to score that much.Just pass give open looks for you teamates and attack the paint.Thats what most tradidtion PGs do thats their bread and butter.
Shooting the 3 from the PG spot opens everything else up.
It creates space. It’s one of the great keys to Nash’s success. He can launch his shot from pretty much anywhere at ridiculous angles and still be deadly accurate. So guys have to be up on him and then he’s able to get them on his back hip and use his spectacular vision to get his guys open looks.
You can be a great PG without a 3 point shot, but you have to have a couple of things that Derrick doesn’t have. The first is outstanding vision (Derrick’s is just okay), the second is great teammates (Rondo has these, Derrick doesn’t), the third is an aggressive, attack-the-rim mentality (again Derrick doesn’t have it). You also should probably be pretty excellent on D to make up for the problems that a lack of shooting does to the offense (Rondo, Kidd, and supposedly Rubio) are like this. This is another thing Derrick doesn’t have. His D is weak. I’m trying to think of one thing that Derrick does at an elite level. The only thing he does extremely well is finish through contact when he drives. The problem is that he’s not attacking, and even last year, he didn’t attack nearly enough given his ability in that respect.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Nov 15, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
We'll see if Rondo is this good when...
…his teammates aren’t named Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. He thinks he’s better than Chris Paul.
Does anybody believe that Boston couldn’t have won a championship if Rondo was replaced with Chris Paul? Because apparently Rondo thinks he’s irreplaceable.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
put d. rose instead of rondo on that squad
and you might actually get a 72 win season….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
You're right, Kidd is the better example
I’m not sure how Rubio is defensively. He didn’t seem laterally quick when I watched him and yeah, he’s a toothpick. But he’s 6’4", his steal rates are the highest I’ve seen for any professional player, and he rebounds well. I could see him being above average defensively for a PG. So yeah, Kidd.
Rubio has crazy quick hands...
He’ll be among the steals leaders in the NBA if he gets the minutes.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Nov 15, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
Because he isn't as good as Jennings.
Are you kidding me? I don’t base this on 7 games. I’ve NEVER thought he was as good as Jennings!! Just like folks were watching Rubio highlights and coming to conclusions about him, there was another whole group of folks watching Jennings highlights when he and Kevin Love were on the same AAU team and they were beating Derrick Rose’s AAU Team (Mean Streets), OJ Mayo and Bill Walker’s AAU teams, Eric Gordon and Greg Oden’s AAU team (Indy Spiece), Tywon Lawson and Kevin Durant’s AAU team, Tyreke Evans’s AAU team, etc… Love was a beast and Jennings was running circles around the guards. They barely lost a game in the 2 years they played together (Love was a year ahead of Jennings). Jennings was CLEARLY a great PG in the making. The only question people had back then was whether his wiry frame would hold up and if he had become too focused on scoring instead of setting teammates up.
Then he made the leap to Europe and was badmouthed by everybody who had a vested interest in him. But that didn’t change the fact that he was as talented a young guard as there was anywhere. All the while Ricky Rubio is throwing behind the back passes and doing dribble moves that you’ll see everyday on the playgrounds of Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Detroit, etc… and people were acting like Rubio was going to change the world with these moves.
As for Rubio, he could have played the same seven games as Jennings but he chose not to. Deep in his heart I think he knew he wasn’t ready for the league. And I don’t wanna hear about how he didn’t wanna play in Minnesota. Flynn did without complaining. For God’s sake, Jennings is in Milwaukee. And Tyreke Evans is in Sacramento. Are you part of the crew that feels Rubio would have played had he been drafted by the Knicks? Well too bad for him.
And I find it interesting that you seem to know Jennings ceiling yet you take offense to me saying he’s better than Rubio. Rubio may indeed prove to be Nash-like and if he does then I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong (the same way I’ve had to give Deng his props this season after killing him the last 2 years or so). I’ve said before that I think he’ll be like Jose Calderon and there is no shame in that. But I just have a huge problem with how much love Rubio got in comparison to the American guards who put in work over here and all the benefit of the doubt he gets when Evans, Curry, Flynn, Jennings and Lawson got no benefit of the doubt. They had to go to all the workouts and compete against one another…while Rubio was able to avoid going against any of those guys.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
And it's only going to get tougher for Rubio.
John Wall and Avery Bradley are likely to be NBA PGs next year. Sure they have to compete against the American PGs as well, but Rubio will have a bullseye on him. After seeing the Rubio highlights and hearing from seemingly everybody how great he is and how he is going to change the NBA, all these American PGs are going to want a shot a Rubio. We’ll see if he’s up to the challenge. I believe what my eyes se and I kNOW all these other guys have legit NBA game. Rubio has nice Euroleague game but I gotta see how he fares against these guys in the NBA game.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 15, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't say Rubio was better
I’m questioning how you can judge Jennings at this point. I said Iverson is his ceiling because Iverson’s the best small scorer in history. I think that’s fair.
Iverson is kinda off IMO...
Sure he could be a prolific scorer (although to be Iverson would put him in the HOF), but what seperates him on offense is his ball handling. Jennings keeps his dribble alive so well for a rookie that I can only imagine what is going to happen when teams start focusing on him. Plus, when Redd (a pure shooter if there is one) comes back, he could up his assist output to astronomical levels. Lastly, I think Iverson is a career 30% from 3. Already Jennings has shown that he’s worked on that aspect of his game and while nobody should expect him to shoot 65% from 3 all season, I wouldn’t be surprised if he shot 40%.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Nov 15, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
gilbert arenas
thats what i thought when i saw his 55 pt game…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 15, 2009 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
I think you are pretty far off base comparing Jennings to a scorer.
Jennings happens to be scoring big time right now. But he’s probably not going to be a guy who goes for big scoring numbers all the time, although scoring comes fairly easily to him. Jennings is a consummate playmaker and as his career progresses people will see that. He’ll score, but he’ll lead in a far different fashion than Iverson. Trust me on that one.
The only comparison I make between him and Iverson are that they both wear #3 and they are both around the same height.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 16, 2009 3:34 AM CST up reply actions
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