My sense about Brandon Jennings was on point. Dude is the real deal!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Oct 31, 2009 10:49 PM CDT
78 comments
I know this is a Bulls blog and this has nothing to do with the Bulls. But all those folks who were on Ricky Rubio's d!@k need to take a serious look at Jennings. The kid is the real deal. I don't know why anybody thought he wouldn't be. His game is tailor made for the NBA so of course he wouldn't look great in Europe. He had a big-time stretch in the third quarter where he went bananas!!! And guess who the Bulls play on Tuesday night? You guessed it. The Milwaukee Bucks. Skiles is giving him plenty of rope too. Makes me kinda wish Skiles was coaching Rose. Skiles would push him more than Del Negro appears to be, but it's a moot point so whatever.
Seems we may be entering the age of the PGs though. Paul and Williams are firmly established as #1 and #2. Rondo, Rose and Devin Harris are the next tier. Now you got a guy like Brandon Jennings who looks poised to be a big time performer and bring some long awaited excitement to Milwaukee. Next year John Wall will have people out of their seats wherever he plays. I'm really excited about the PG play we're going to see in the NBA over the next 10-15 yrs.
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This is garbage.
What are you basing this off of? Jennings has potential but isn’t anywhere near the paul, d-will, rondo, rose of the league.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Nov 1, 2009 12:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You might be correct when it comes to Paul, D Will and Rondo, but why Rose?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because he listed Rose.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Nov 3, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you read???
Nowhere in there did I say that Jennings is near any of hose guys yet. I said Paul and Williams are firmly etched as #1 and #2…and Rose, Rondo and Harris are on the next tier. Notice I didn’t put Jennings in either of those guys class at this point.
I said that he looks poised to be a big time performer but NOWHERE in there did I say he was on par with either of the aforementioned guys yet.
And I’m basing it off the way the kid has played the last 4 or 5 years. I didn’t just hear about Brandon Jennings yesterday or something. I remember when he was playing AAU basketball with Kevin Love when he was a Sophomore and Junior in high school and they were killing everybody and it was evident he was going to be a big time guard back then.
So before making a comment like the one you made, pretty much accusing me of a wild accusation, please read a bit more carefully.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right this kid Jennings is gonna be a really good player
He’s all star caliber and he’s a pure, true point guard. I want to make it known right now also, Chris Paul is a good player, but the man is overrated. Derron Williams has always been better than him in my opinion since they came out of college together. I have a feeling Brandon Jennings will be better than Paul, and he may even have a better year this year if Jennings jumper is right. The boy is nice!
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 1, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Deron Williams better than Chris Paul?
I’m interested to see what you’re basing that off of.
by Stacey_Is_King on Nov 1, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its an opinion I have based on a couple of different things
Controlling the flow of the game, man on man defense, size, the ability to score when needed from inside and outside. They both are nice assist men even though Paul has clearly had better and more athletic players. Paul is good at getting steals which comes from him being a good team defender and his ability to get to loose balls because of his quickness. Williams can do everything Paul can do offensively just a little bit better.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 1, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think
that Boozer, Brewer, AK47, Okur, and Millsap, is a lot better than Stojakovic, Chandler, and West.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Nov 1, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Williams can do everything Paul can do offensively just a little bit better.
I apologize, but if you had any credibility, you’ve now lost it. Chris Paul has had two of the greatest individual offensive seasons for a PG in the HISTORY of the NBA. Ridiculous.
(Unless, of course, you meant the exact opposite of what you said.)
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Nov 1, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So based off of these stats are you gonna say Paul is better than Magic, Isaiah, Stockton, GP.....
OK then…..Williams is better in my opinion. If Williams team can beat Paul’s team 3 of the 3 times and Williams score over 20 and get over 10 assists 2 of the 3 times going head up you cant tell me Paul is hands down better!
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 1, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm inclined to think that Williams is better when he is healthy as well...
…but to call Paul overrated is a bit much. All the guy does is go get you 23 and 11 damn near every night and many times he has to be his teams primary scorer and ends up getting more than that. That’s a tall order and Paul handles it as well as any PG ever has.
I had NO idea Williams would be this good. I knew he was tough but I didn’t realize he was potentially great. When he lost all that weight after his second NBA season he took his game to another level.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Paul is definitely a great player
I just have a hard time saying is the best of the best. Williams and the Jazz owned the Hornets last year also. Williams is a better outside shooter, he can get anywhere on the court he wants. He’s a solid man up defender, the boy’s got talent. Paul is a good leader, he’s got heart, a fiestiness about him, he can set players up to score, but he doesn’t stand out to me more than most of the other good guards. Like Harris in N.J, Parker in S.A, Nash, or even Rondo. They all have things they do particularly well, but the size and skill of Williams makes him better IMO. He’s like a Jason Kidd with a jump shot!
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 1, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol Harris as a good PG
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 1, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
jason kidd?
first, to be that williams would have to rebound more than three times a game. second, williams is big, but he is not a very good defender, i dont know why you think that. also, williams shoots the three better than paul, but since paul is a more efficient scorer overall that doesnt really matter. and you probably should realize that the pace of the hornets undersells paul. and you probably should realize a season typically has 82 games against 29 teams and not 3 games against the same team. and you should probably realize utah is a very good and deep team with much more weapkns than n.o. has. and you should probably realize you are crazy.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
by TheMoon on Nov 2, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's crazy to you that Williams is considered better than Paul it's cool
I mean you wrote that like Williams is a scrub or something.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 2, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You bring up a good point about coaching
Although I’m trying to give VDN a fresh start and have been happy to see that his guys are playing hard for him and appear to be buying into whatever it is that he’s selling, I really wonder if he’s gonna able to push Rose to become the player he’s capable of being.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 12:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You and me harped on this all the time last year
Take over ROSE! TAKE OVER!
Even BG isnt here this year to take alot of shots away..
TAKE OVER ROSE. Drive the lane~! No one can stop you, get contact and shoot the free throws if u miss who cares?! Man I love rose so much i wish he would just do what he was capable of.
DA CUBS DA BEARS DA BULLS
by Rudey on Nov 1, 2009 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
EXACTLY
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point guard era
i think theres two ways of looking at it, on the one hand one could be excited if one just looks at it in terms of basketball and the love of watching the game in general…but on the other hand, one such as myself am sort of pissed at the notion of being able to witness all these new great pgs…because that means the pg we got in rose, may end up being average….
Consider lebron james, he is the biggest fastest dude in the nba, athletically lebron has no equal. KD may come close but lebron is still better right now than him, and howard isnt fast enough, not to mention the skill set of having the ability to go inside and play outside. but imagine if there was a lebron like player in every draft, even if there were differences in personality and focus on skill sets, basically the domination lebron has now would begin to decline.
So lets go back to rose and the pgs….what makes rose better than jennings, rubio, or hell westbrook (who is very similar to rose at least in playing style)….continue that trend in this years draft with wall, and how about next year….if this trend continues every draft may have a d. rose like player, so what makes rose better than those guys? is he?
When we got rose it was, this guy is a pure pg, but he is so much stronger and faster than any pg ever…and i thought like lebron!! Westbrook matched rose though in terms of ability to play above the rim and get to the hole. But i always thought, well its okay cuz rose will only get better and will always be stronger and faster, but with all these new pgs, maybe it wont remain….
My fear is that the new age of pgs will also take away our star pg, making him better than alot of normal pgs, but not a tier 1 pg…and thats a very scary thought as a bulls fan…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 1, 2009 1:39 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Great post
I’ve been thinking about that exact thing recently. There’s been such an influx of talent at that position that in order for someone to be considered special he really has to do a lot to set himself apart from all the others. Obviously there are so many layers to this.
Are the hand checking rules responsible? Is that the reason why any young guy with a decent amount of speed can seemingly penetrate at will? All you have to do is take a look around, there’s a new, hot, young pg seemingly every minute. Now we have Jennings and Flynn, next year it will be John Wall. It’s really a great question. How do we know what we are watching is real? And what does it mean to be truly great at that position?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't worry about Derrick Rose.
I think you all will see in the years to come that Derrick Rose is indeed the goods. I won’t say he’ll be better than Chris Paul because Chris Paul is on pace to be the greatest PG of all time under 6’9"…and in all honesty Deron Williams isn’t far behind him. But keep in mind that Paul put up about 17 pts and 8 assts in his second season and Williams put up about 16 and 9. Rose likely won’t have that many assists but the nature of the Bulls team being what it is I think you’ll see Rose averaging 19-20 ppg area with about 7 apg this season. He has an annoying habit of feeling things and situations out before asserting himself. Hopefully he takes this time while he’s injured to do that. But you’ll see him step up his game. It may not reflect in ppg or even apg but Derrick Rose’s teams ultimately win when he decides to lead the way and I don’t think it will be any different.
I am however concerned about this ankle at this point. And I really don’t think VDN is going to be the guy who is going to get the best out of him. Paul is great because Byron Scott pushed him. Williams is great because Sloan pushed him. Tony Parker is damn good and is a Finals MVP because Popovich pushed him. Jennings will be a hell of a player because Skiles will push him. Rose needs a coach to push him to get to the next level.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets
Start a “Get Avery chant” I would love to see the General on the sidelines, maybe he can get the Admiral to have sessions w/ our bigmen about post play.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Nov 3, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't wanna be a hater, but it's gotten to the point where I'm excited to see someone fail at that position
It lets me know that it’s not as easy as it appears to be.
Here’s a list of teams and their starting PG’s. I’ll put an asterisk next to each one that’s either an established very good player or an up and comer:
Celtics – Rajon Rondo*
Nets – Devin Harris*
Knicks – Chris Duhon
76ers – Lou Williams*
Raptors – Jose Calderon*
Bulls – Derrick Rose*
Cavs – Mo Williams*
Pistons – Rodney Stuckey*
Pacers – TJ Ford*
Bucks – Brandon Jennings*
Hawks – Mike Bibby*
Bobcats – DJ Augustin
Heat – Mario Chalmers
Magic – Jameer Nelson*
Wizards – Gilbert Arenas*
Warriors – Stephen Curry
Clippers – Baron Davis*
Lakers – Derek Fisher
Suns – Steve Nash*
Kings – Tyreke Evans
Mavericks – Jason Kidd*
Rockets – Aaron Brooks*
Grizzlies – Mike Conley
Hornets – Chris Paul*
Spurs – Tony Parker*
Nuggets – Chauncey Billups*
T Wolves – Johnny Flynn*
Thunder – Russell Westbrook*
Trailblazers – Andre Miller*
Jazz – Deron Williams*
Obviously this is very subjective. But by my count that’s 23 out of 30 teams that have an above average or better player at that position. And some of those guys I left off (like Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry) because their body of work wasn’t big enough to judge (I know I put Flynn and Jennings on, but c’mon they look pretty sick). I beleive (I haven’t researched every single one) that each of these guys had a PER that was either above or no lower than a half point below Derrick. So what is it that separates him from all of these other guys?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson would have given all these guys the business!!!
If the no hand check rule were in effect when these two guys played they may have been two of the most impossible guys in the world to defend.
I know what you’re saying though Juicebox.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shit that's long, my bad
Forget that whole PER thing I checked and I screwed up a couple, but the basic idea is still there
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thought with Derrick
was he’d eventually defend too. Few point guards are decent defensively, and unlike Foye, Mo Williams, Parker are other small guys, he’s got the body type to be Billups/Hinrich defensively. Pair that with someone who could be a more explosive Tony Parker offensively, and that’s an elite player.
by YaoPau on Nov 1, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Curry is not a point guard, Westbrook is the weakest, Evans is gonna be nice don't sleep on Chalmers.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 1, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's what he's listed as, so I had to put him there
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Curry is a PG. He’s exactly a pretty good passer. He will be a good one once he learns to D up and gets better.
Westbrook is the west Coast version of Rondo(not as good of a passer), but a top tier defender and rebounder for the PG position. Once he becomes even just decent at shooting, he will be a great one.
by C Smoove on Nov 1, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
C Smoove-Curry is a small two guard who converted to point his last college season to prep for NBA
He’s not a pure point guard was what I meant.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 1, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's sure seemed like one in the NBA
because his passing is great but his shooting has been ass.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 1, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn’t born a PG, but one can become one. He has the vision and passing skill of a real PG. Just because he was a SG in college doesn’t mean he won’t be a very good NBA PG.
by C Smoove on Nov 2, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you've got 30 guys, 23 of them can't be above average :)
But yeah, I know what you mean. Compared to other PGs, only 15 can be average or above. In terms of how good these guys are of having their way with a game, there are lots of good ones.
I’d break it down like this
Older guys on the downside of their career. These sorts of guys only have a couple years left. And really, there are quite a few of them that will be vacating their spots in the upper echelon on the league’s players in the next couple years.
Tier 1: Superstar, likely hall of famer
Suns – Steve Nash*
Mavericks – Jason Kidd*
Nuggets – Chauncey Billups*
Tier 2: Star Players, but not quite up there with the tier 1 guys
Clippers – Baron Davis*
Tier 3: Solid starters, but not the key element on your team
Trailblazers – Andre Miller*
Lakers – Derek Fisher
Hawks – Mike Bibby*
Next you’ve got guys that have pretty well established what they are:
Tier 1
Hornets – Chris Paul*
Tier 2
Celtics – Rajon Rondo*
Nets – Devin Harris*
Spurs – Tony Parker*
Jazz – Deron Williams*
Wizards – Gilbert Arenas*
Tier 3
Pacers – TJ Ford*
Magic – Jameer Nelson*
Raptors – Jose Calderon*
Cavs – Mo Williams*
Kirk Hinrich
Tier 4: Borderline starter
Knicks – Chris Duhon
76ers – Lou Williams*
Then you’ve got a group of young guys, and I don’t think you can really sort them that much by what they’ve accomplished. When I think of them, at least, I’d try to sort them out by a combination of what they’ve accomplished so far and where I think they have the potential to end up.
Likely Tier 1-2 players.
Bulls – Derrick Rose*
Potential to be in Tier 2-3
Bucks – Brandon Jennings*
Thunder – Russell Westbrook*
Kings – Tyreke Evans
Pistons – Rodney Stuckey*
Ricky Rubio
Ty Lawson
Monta Ellis
Potential to be Tier 3-4
Bobcats – DJ Augustin
Heat – Mario Chalmers
Warriors – Stephen Curry
Rockets – Aaron Brooks*
Grizzlies – Mike Conley
T Wolves – Johnny Flynn*
Jrue Holliday
I guess where I’m going with that is that while I have my doubts about whether Rose will truly reach elite status, I’d still rank him as a somewhat better prospect than the other younger guys that have come into the league over the last couple years.
I also think, if you look at the established guys, it’s very hard to preduct which guys are going to jump up and grow into really elite players and which aren’t. If you looked at Nash and Billups a couple years into their careers, I don’t think they gave much indication they’d develop into hall of fame type players. And some of they guys who looked like they might really take off and be amazing – Andre Miller, Kirk, Baron Davis – sort of tailed off.
by Sports2 on Nov 1, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I think Flynn and Evans both have All-star talent. I don’t think there’s much fall-off between Rose and Westbrook. Rose is just more offensively gifted, Westbrook is better at everything else. I think D Will is right there with Paul, Paul is a little better but D Will is up there.
by C Smoove on Nov 1, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I like Evans too. I might even put him up there with Rose if I really think about it
Problem is, I’ve only seen little snips of him and just read lots of good things about him. I’ve seen very little, so I just sort of forgot about sorting him. But yeah, he looks like he knows what he’s doing, and he’s freaking huge and athletic
I’d be tempted to put Westbrook up there too. And Jennings, if I think about it, has been pretty impressive looking so far too. The big thing about those three guys is that their teams have been more impressive than I expected so far, and on the back of strong play by them. Of course, we’re only a couple games in.
Flynn… not so sure about him. He looks really turnover prone so far, and I suppose I’m just willing to buy in yet.
by Sports2 on Nov 1, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jennings is a stud.
He’s Ricky Rubio, only shorter and faster. And, well, not as able to play D as a result. But he’s really, really good.
This is just the eye test, preseason, and the three regular season games talking, but … man. I kind of wish he was on the Bulls instead of Rose, and I know just how blasphemous that is.
Jennings is not bashful, and if needed, he will take over a game.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 1, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, thanks making me look bad!
Seriously though, nice job. I just kinda threw that thing together and sorted em out regardless of age or potential and pretty much just based it off of current production. I think Westbrook and Rose are pretty close, close enough that think they should definitely both be in the same tier. Other than that I really don’t have an argument. I kinda think that maybe you could have done away with that first group of vets and future HOF’ers and just lumped them in with everyone else then made a separate hing for up and comers.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 1, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't wanna hear anything else about Ricky Rubio until he matches up against one...
…of these NBA caliber guards in an NBA setting. The guy wouldn’t work out with any of the other top PGs in the draft and Flynn, Evans and Jennings are all looking pretty strong out of the gate. I think all their games are better suited to the NBA than Rubio’s. Until he puts in some work against NBA guys I’m through with him. And I don’t wanna hear about those AVERAGE performances he turned in against team USA. He threw a nice pass or two but that’s it. Nothing more. I wish people would stop blowing up what he did. Patty Mills KILLED Team USA…and so did Carlos Arroyo back in 2004 or 2006…but that didn’t make either of them top tier NBA prospects.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was impressive
because of what he was doing to us when he was still so young. He’s had success in Europe and maybe feels like he should be waltzing into the NBA like a European star (and there are many who think the same). I think a lot of the bad reaction to him is that his thought process and attitude is so unlike typical American rookies. Of course American rookies haven’t played for their country yet either and they certainly haven’t been traveling the world and playing with seasoned vets under the eye of the world media. He probably put his name in too early for the size of is ego. Maybe he’ll run into some good advice over the next year and come in to the NBA more willing to jump through the hoops here.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 1, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I've seen 16 yr olds do the VERY SAME THING to pros back at Hoops...
…when the pros used to work out there in the summer. It’s not the Olympics, but unless you were there or really know some real background info about it you have no idea how competitive it really is. And these young guys sometimes went on to prominence (Antoine Walker being the most prominent youngster I saw put in work, absolutely giving the business to guys like Scottie Pippen and Nick Anderson when he was in high school). Other guys ended up having solid careers overseas (Kiwane Garris who played for Illinois from ‘93 – ’97 comes to mind as he regularly held his own and sometimes came out on top against the likes of Tim Hardaway, Isiah Thomas, B.J. Armstrong and Kenny Anderson who worked out there fairly often—Kenny Anderson is the illest pick up ball player I have EVER SEEN!!!). Then there were others who didn’t do much after high school but still looked pretty damn awesome at Hoops (Theopolis Price from Manley High School was often the star of the show at Hoops. Theopolis was UNREAL and none of the pros could contain him). See, I’m a hood dude. Straight off the west side and I played high school and college ball locally and i know all the fellas in my age range. I was there at Hoops almost on a daily basis and I saw it go down. Just because you have a good showing or two against pros, in whatever environment, doesn’t mean you’re gonna be a star.
Also, for the sake of contrast, look at Brandon Jennings. The NBA game is tailor made for him and his skillset. Europe wasn’t for Jennings, but it’s tailor made for Rubio’s skill set. I don’t think Rubio is an NBA player just yet. He will be soon though. The guy I think he’ll be like is Jose Calderon. Nothing to be ashamed of there, but I don’t see superstar with him like many others do. Rubio doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt with me. I gotta see him do it against American style ball players at the highest level of American ball.
By the way, what did Rubio do to us that was so special besides throw a nice pass or two? I GUARANTEE you that Evans, Flynn or Jennings could have thrown the same nice passes and made the same jump shot or two at the age of 17 against Team USA that Rubio did. GUARANTEE IT!!!
Do you think Rubio is better than John Wall right now? I sure as hell don’t, but we’ll find out.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio can play D.
Calderon is like Derrick Rose last year on D, only that’s how he is, no room for improvement really.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 1, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Arroyo looked like the best player on the floor when he played against USA
Rubio didn’t appear to be so special when he played though.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 2, 2009 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean really. There are plenty YOUNG pgs in the NBA I'd that look to be better...
…than Rubio right now.
Paul
Williams
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Jennings
Evans
Stephen Curry
Aaron Brooks
Ty Lawson looks like he’s gonna be a ball player
Jonny Flynn (I’ll venture to say that he’s playing better than Rubio would have played so far this year)
Of all these guys Williams is the oldest at 25. Rubio will have to deal with them all. At best I see him being like Jose Calderon. Nothing wrong with that because Calderon is solid as a rock and very steady. But he’s no superstar. Just because Rubio throws a few flashy passes let’s not make him a star. Jason Williams was flashy and a hell of a passer but was no superstar.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait to judge him
until he actually plays a game of NBA basketball. It is a bit unfair as the people you listed at least have stats to compare. If you think it is too early to crown him some kind of pg god then it certain is too early to say he isn’t very good at all and peg him as a Jose Calderon. Rose didn’t show much PG skills in college yet we have put our hopes in him. Rubio is 19 and has already survived high pressure situations. Seems like he has as much pre-NBA evidence for potential as any top ten rookie coming into the league.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 1, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Darko survived high pressure situations too before he got to the NBA...
…and was SO highly touted that he went ahead of Carmelo, Bosh and D-Wade. BIG MISTAKE obviously. And Darko got all the same hype that Rubio gets. Here is what The Sporting News said about Darko before he was drafted:
“Milicic has the inclination to play tough interior defense, but he does not yet have the body. He can be pushed off the block, though he often recovers to get a hand on shots. He has to work on some fundamentals, too, like holding the ball high after rebounds to keep from being stripped by strong players. He’ll need work, but the finished product could be every bit as good as James, only in a 7-foot frame”
Sean Deveney – The Sporting News (May 26th)
And this link is from NBA.com. Some PROFESSIONAL SCOUTS made the comments about Darko. Read and heed:
http://www.nba.com/draft2003/lottery_scouts.html
I trust my eyes and Rubio had a chance to workout with Evans, Holiday, Jennings, Curry and Flynn out in Sacramento or Golden St. before the draft but he declined. And Calderon ain’t a bum. He just isn’t a superstar. So Rubio gets no benefit of the doubt from me. Now if Rubio comes and runs roughshot over the league then I will probably go get my son a Rubio jersey and tell him to wear it everyday. But he gotta show me first because as of now I’m not a believer in this superstar potential of his. His game doesn’t translate into NBA stardom as far as I can see.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Darko was actually famously
untested before coming to the NBA. He was on the bench on some low-division team. Rubio is on one of the top teams in Europe.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 2, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rubio
is actually captain (has been for awhile despite his age) on THE best team in europe….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 2, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and when i say captain
i dont mean bulls captain, i mean detroit pistons chauncey billups captain…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 2, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He wouldn't be the captain at the University of Kentucky if he was there now.
Him being the Captain of his team over there really doesn’t mean a damn thing to me. Show me on the court against the best. The best in Europe doesn’t equal the best in the US.
Šarūnas Jasikevičius was LEGENDARY for Tel Aviv Maccabi…which is a good team last I checked. He was THE MAN. Then came over here and barely got off the bench for the Pacers. So I don’t care what you heard. I gotta see what he does against NBA guys in an NBA setting with NBA rules and refs.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 2, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he was untested, but that didn't stop people from falling over themselves praising him.
A scouting report on him again:
"Milicic has the inclination to play tough interior defense, but he does not yet have the body. He can be pushed off the block, though he often recovers to get a hand on shots. He has to work on some fundamentals, too, like holding the ball high after rebounds to keep from being stripped by strong players. He’ll need work, but the finished product could be every bit as good as James, only in a 7-foot frame"
How crazy does that sound now? It said, “The finished product could be every bit as good as James”. James could end his career that greatest player of all time. How ridiculous does the Darko love affair look now. Detroit drank the kool-aid and picked this guy ahead of Carmelo Anthony fresh off and NCAA title. But what’s worse is that EVERYBODY would have taken Darko ahead of Carmelo because they were so infatuated by this young kid…who as we all know turned out to be garbage.
I’ve seen Rubio play about 6 full games and I’ve seen the highlights on youtube. He’s been called a taller Steve Nash (future hall of famer) and the next Pete Maravich (top 50 all time, all time college leading scorer with 44ppg at LSU and current basketball hall of famer). It’s sacrilegious to even mention Rubio in the same breath as those guys until he does SOMETHING other than throw a few nice passes against NBA guys in and NBA setting.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 2, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He refused to work out with those guys
because he is a European star with a huge ego, not because he is afraid he will look bad. Just look at his reaction to the crap team he was drafted by. He was obviously expecting much better results by appointment or otherwise. He seemed completely unfamiliar with any of the typical things guys coming out of American colleges have to do getting ready for the draft. He acted like he expected different treatment because in the world that matters for him (Europe) he has already made it big. Which is why I mentioned above that hopefully over the next year or two he’ll learn how to jump through the hoops in the NBA. This guy really is one of the first “new” European players who don’t have an inferiority complex with the NBA.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Nov 2, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't he making more money in Spain then he would have with the T-Wolves?
Why bother jumping through hoops to play in a foreign country when you can stay in your own country and get paid just as much? So you can enjoy the lovely Minnesota winter? If he stays in Europe for three years he can bypass the rookie wage scale, and he won’t have the buyout to worry about anymore. He would have been playing practically for free in Minnesota (and he obviously couldn’t have counted on any endorsement money in a small market), so he would have had to be an idiot to come over here.
by Big D on Nov 2, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he may be. Can't blame him for taking the cheese.
But in actuality, I think he would have had his hands full with Jonny Flynn. It wouldn’t have been the walk in the park for Rubio that many here seem to think. Sessions and Flynn would run his ass through the ringer and make him earn all this status that many here have already bestowed on him. He may be “Super” RIcky or whatever in Spain but over here in the States and to them brothers in the league Rubio is just another dude that they gonna go at hard. No nights off!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 2, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No inferiority complex because he has played a total of about 45 minutes...
…of basketball against top tier Americans. But had he gone to those workouts and got his ass busted a lil’ bit he’d see things differently.
You made my point for me though. He’s God in Europe but he’s completely oblivious to what awaits him here. Ain’t nobody in the league worried about Ricky Rubio. NOBODY is scared of this kid. They will worry about him when he decides he wants to compete against some of these great American players in American style basketball. Until then I doubt any of them are worried about him. If anything, Rubio is adding fuel to the fire for these American PGs. He is going to have the biggest bulls-eye on his back when he gets to the NBA. I will never forget how Jordan and Pippen did Toni Kukoc when they played him in the Olympics. Kukoc had been receiving so much attention and Jordan and Pippen began to detest it and made it their business to make life miserable for Kukoc (which they did). Rubio has put himself in the same position.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 2, 2009 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Picc good post and points
I have said before that Rose is a talent and right not his biggest asset is like Lebron James his physical makeup and his athleticism. Point guards normally don’t get up like this guy, or they arent as strong as him. The last point guard to have thistype build and athleticism I think was Baron Davis. However Davis skill wise was and still is better than Rose. Davis is a better ball handler, better passer, shooter, and overall scorer. Rose has to become more of a play maker like Paul, Williams in Utah, Magic, Stockton, Isaiah and the greats. It’s not enough to run fast and jump high, when Rose learns this, if he learns, he will be one of the best ever.
by Mr Rhythm on Nov 1, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you guys should read jenning's facebook
lotta comments about how skiles is yelling at him to calm down and stuff
by sin on Nov 1, 2009 1:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I bet he yells at him about a lot more than that.
But as long as Skiles lets Jennings learn on the fly then it will make him a much better player.
Now somebody needs to yell at the Bears.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Jennings!!! You should listen to me!!...
I once had 30 assists in a GAME!!!"
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 1, 2009 7:02 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Paul will never be as great as Magic, Stockton, Isiah…even Kevin Johnson is better. CP3 is great but I just don’t drink all the Kool-aid everyone does.
There have always been great PGs, even in the 80s/90s. Tim Hardaway, pre-injury Penny Hardaway, Mark Price, Terrell Brandon, Kevin Johnson(one of my fave players of all time), Isiah, Magic.
The handcheck rules def. make it so much easier to penetrate almost at will.
by C Smoove on Nov 1, 2009 12:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I didnt drink any kool-aid
and i am not much of a stats guy, but i put chris paul up there as the best pg ive seen ever (i was born in the late 80s so i dont remember much of magic or isiah) and the reason for this isnt because of his ability to penetrate, or the steals he gets, or his crazy circus shot layups…..its simply because of the way he passes the ball, the way he handles the ball, the things he does with the ball elude my eyes almost every time, i watch the game and from where i am sitting i can see guys hinrich and rose should pass to, many people can do the same since watching a game on tv gives you a certain angle that ingame players dont get…but paul…he throws passes to people that i didnt see coming, he finds guys that arent open at the time of the pass, and ive heard and seen the stories of magic and i think paul has that same ability.
pre-hand chek rule i think worked in favor for pgs in the past, because it allowed more defenders to play pgs onball, and pay less attention to possible recievers and passing lanes in general, allowing smart pgs to have bigger holes in defense, with the rule though you will see defenses try to cut off penetration and play passing lanes alot more, making it far more difficult to pass the ball…so while penetration becomes easier, the passing aspect i believe becomes harder…and its that passing ability that paul has that wows me everytime…
better than magic or isiah? i dont know…but best in the league and best pg in the last decade (including mvp steve nash) id certainly say so…..
also another reason i think cp3 is so great is his offensive awareness…there have been few who have been able to, in a flash, breakdown defenses and exploit the smallest of openings (magic and jordan are the two greatest i can think of) youtube is down atm or else id post the video, but a great example is cp3 throwing it between jason terry’s legs and dish to rasul butler…just watch that and tell me how many other pgs (or players in general couldve done that) its not something that can easily be a fluke either, somehow, in a fraction of a second he planned the whole thing out….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Nov 1, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Paul is def. the best PG in the 21st century. But Magic was a way better passer than Paul and Isiah can score way better than Paul. And hand checking makes offense way more hard to play, imagine try to penetrate with a guy constantly pressing his arm into you. Also there were less touch fouls, guys would just pack the lane. It’s a lot easier today to penetrate and then you’ll probably get a foul easily since refs are so quick to blow the whistle.
Paul is amazing, no disrespect, but I haven’t seen enough yet to even have him be a top 5 PG of all time. Not to mention Kidd has/had equal if not greater passing ability and court vision.
by C Smoove on Nov 1, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
im not sure why you think isiah was such a great scorer. his best season
had him scoring 23 ppg on 19 fga, which isnt that good at all, especially since the fast pace of the 80’s is much more conducive to offense (82games.com has a good article on fastbreaks that talks about how pace helps offense.) last season paul scored 23 ppg on 16 fga. on one of the slowest teams in the league.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
by TheMoon on Nov 2, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree piccolo that pre-hand check rule was advantageous to PGs.
The fact of the matter is that there was on the ball defense but there was usually an “enforcer” in the lane as well. Guards penetrated but paid for it big time and that does not happen too often at all these days. The game was just far more physical. Chris Paul is a physical guard and he’s got great quickness so I think he would have been fine pre hand check rules. But other guys would have struggled.
Go watch some old games and not just pay attention to highlights. Kevin Johnson was an absolute BEAST. Tim Hardaway was unstoppable when he was younger. Guys like Fat Lever and Joe Dumars were real ball players. All these guys played when there was no free pass to the basket. Not to mention guys who couldn’t really shoot but managed to carve out niches anyway who if they played today would be unreal because nobody could stop these guys from getting to the basket (Rod Strickland and Kenny Anderson come to mind). Both of these guys would be 20 and 10 guys if they were in the league in their primes today (90s for both guys).
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lets stop the delusion about the past please.
“no free pass to the bucket”. please. the past is worth remembering, you dont have to kiss its ass though. i keep watching old games, and i see how little impact the whole hand check thing actually had, and what effect it did have is made up for by the use of zones and the increased mobility and quickness of modern big men. as for the physicality of the old days, tell me this. when training techniques were primitive and player muscle definition/mass was low, when medical tools were comparatively primitive, how is it that the players of the 80s and 90s were not injured all the time? it seems like the answer of the mythophiles is that while contemporary players are mere mortals, older players were superhumans from a grander heroic age.
"What is going on up here?"
"I never know, man."
by TheMoon on Nov 2, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never be as great as Magic!!
But with the game being what it is, all these young guards have a chance to surpass the 80s/90s guards. In a post below this one I talk about how Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson would MURDER the league today. If you couldn’t handcheck those two guys they would have went for 30 and 15. They already went for 20 and 10 when there were no hand check rules and the game was full of physical PFs and Cs who would foul your ass if you came to the hole.
A guy like Isiah would have done the same and put up HUGE numbers.
But this is the same reason Kobe’s number stack up favorably against MJs. Kobe would have still put up 20+ppg in the 80s/90s but he has NEVER dealt with the physical punishment Jordan endured.
Different time, different game.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 1, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kobe’s number’s don’t even compare to Mike’s, players back then were more fundamentally sound, they were better shooters, Eddie Johnson said " You couldn’t talk contract extension unless you shot 50%", back in the 80’s/90’s if a player shot 45% he wasn’t considered a good shooter, player’s also weren’t abusing the 3pt line either, NBA do me a favor move the line back!!
by QUINTEN DALEY on Nov 3, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry but anyone who thinks that it isn’t way easier to score in today’s league is the delusional one. I’m not that old myself(27) but I remember enought of the late 80s/90s to know that defense was wayyyy more tough than the matador defense that most teams use today. It’s just a fact.
by C Smoove on Nov 2, 2009 3:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Paul is the Best Point Guard in the league today
Some of my favorite Chris Paul mixes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuXxvVBujwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rspX0ymJ_is
Chris Paul is an artist with the ball…
Has the ability to turn his teammates into dangerous weapons…
He is incredibly intelligent… I don’t think he gets enough credit for that…
I believe he has potential to be the best PG in history. The game has changed… to compare him to Stockton or Payton would be unfair… each are their own individual artist…
I believe we must go by the standards that have been set in today NBAs. 3 second rule… lack of hand checking… restricted area… the rules basically opening up the paint more for “dynamic” guards…
One cannot deny that the rules do promote a faster paced game… and arguably a more exciting game.
Just like Lebron… Wade… Kobe… Paul is just another player that simply knew how to “exploit” these rules and became great players because of it…
Plus the fact that they have the physical and mental tools that are far superior than your “typical” player.
by 420man! on Nov 2, 2009 5:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The league has evolved and the players along with it.
Watch a Stockton mix and a Paul mix and see which one impresses you more…
by 420man! on Nov 2, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stockton was the antithesis of the word 'flashy'.
I wouldn’t put much stock in that particular comparison.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Nov 2, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Both were PGs though.
And I agree. Stockton kept things simple and sweet. He was his own artist.
by 420man! on Nov 2, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See, that's the problem right there.
Stockton won’t wow you with highlights, but he’ll overwhelm you with solid defense, solid shooting, unmeasured toughness and simply averaging about 50 wins per season. For the record though, Isiah Thomas is the best little PG of all time IMO and Chris Paul has a chance to surpass him. But Magic is the best PG ever and Paul will be hard pressed to pass Magic.
Also, highlights won’t tell the whole story of the older guys. Every game wasn’t televised like they are today except in your local market so you don’t see everything those guys did. I looked up Tim Hardaway highlights and there are only about 3 mixes of him. I can tell you from experience. Tim Hardaway has FAR more highlights than the 5 minutes or so you see posted…particularly from his Golden State days and his early Miami days.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Nov 3, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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