Player by Player Analysis After Our First Back to Back
With two real games played so far I feel like we're starting to get a glimpse of where everybody is at and what we can expect from them as the season progresses.
In our first game, we looked like a team that had a lot of potential last year and made some logical offseason improvements (defense, passing and to a lesser extent shot selection).
In game 2, we looked like the early 2008-09 Bulls.
So we've had a chance to see the good and the ugly. While the season will probably go somewhat in between the extremes of game one (impressive home win) and game two (ugly road loss), the question will be: do we lean towards good or bad?
The following is a player by player analysis of the team, coach and management, in parenthesis is my opinion of how far they has come since last season, both in terms of individual skill but more importantly how they are contributing to the team.
Joakim Noah (positive) - Noah has come into camp in very good physical shape. He looks stronger and slightly more focused this year. It still looks like he shoots with two hands, but his shot appears to be going in more often. Defensively, he hasn't played particularly well in the first two games (mainly against Perkins and Duncan) so that is an area that I look for him to improve in as the season goes on.
Taj Gibson (positive) - He really plays within himself. He's a smart player, especially intelligent on the floor for a rookie. He looks like he'll make a good role player for his career, possibly as a starter if he develops areas of his game, but not likely a star. If he were a little taller and bigger he would really be a force in the NBA. I look for him to continue being a very solid option off the bench and an average to above average backup. If he ends up starting this season, that probably either means he has more talent than anybody could imagine or Tyrus is hurt/playing like crap. I really hope Taj continues to be a solid role player and backup, but he's a pleasant surprise thus far.
Tyrus Thomas (neutral/positive) - Tyrus has looked like the 2nd half of last year Tyrus thus far, which is good. If he can play the kind of defense, both on the ball and off the ball, that he played in our victory against the Cavs last year, then he'll be a solid starter at the 4 position. He hasn't taken as many terrible jumpers as I saw in the preaseason and last year's regular season, which is a good thing. Playing around the rim, catching alley oops and grabbing offensive rebounds is his game. If he has an open mid range jumper, fine, take it, but I don't want to see him catching the pass and trying to create from 18-20 feet out.
Kirk Hinrich (neutral/positive) - He's looked better so far than last year, but remember last year he was also hurt. He also makes 9.5 million a season, over 50% as much as Salmons, and more than anybody not named Miller or Deng. He's a necessity at guard with the way our team is currently constructed. With the poor choices made on Pargo and Hunter to round out our guard spots, we're leaning on Kirk more than we should have to. When your 6-7th man's health is of vital importance (trust me, this year it is), then you know you made some poor choices or had some very bad luck. Sadly, it's the former for us. Defensively, he's been spotty this year. Daniels was a bad matchup for him vs Boston, but in reality Hinrich just picked up some quick fouls against him. He's looked like the old offensive Kirk, which is good, if he can keep playing the way he is and minimize defensive errors, he should give us exactly what we need: reliable, smart, able to score and defend guard play.
Derrick Rose (neutral - neutral/positive) - Taking into account the injury and his first two games, I think we're seeing a slight improvement so far. If he can get healthy in the next month or two, hopefully he becomes the star we expect. If he's slowed by injury all season, it's really going to be a challenge for us to do anything except limp into the playoffs and exit in the first round again. In game one his defense looked a lot better. He stayed in front of Parker and played the screens very well. In game two, he looked a lot worse, more like the Rose that couldn't guard Rondo if his life depended on it our round 1 loss. What is a little more troubling is his lack of aggression. In game 1 we were shooting well and moving the ball around, so I was less concerned. But in game 2, we clearly needed to attack Boston and Rose just didn't do it. In fact, the only time I remember him attacking the basket hard was when Rondo stole the ball and knocked it out of bounds. Rose came back and drove hard to the hole, making a layup. If that's what it takes to get him fired up, then he needs to grow up quickly. I know he's young, but he needs to turn into the leader he can be, and fast. I'm not a big believer in the 4-year plan, it fails time and time again. We have the talent to do better, and Rose needs to be the person it starts with. A positive that I have seen is that his jump shot looks better this year. If he continues to improve on that, it should play a major part in his rise to stardom on this team. He doesn't need to follow the 5-year plan that Parker followed before he developed a jumper.
John Salmons (neutral) - A trickier one defensively, as he had a solid night vs the Spurs on D but disappeared against the Celtics. If he can get back to last year's defense, I think he'll bet a net positive on that end of the floor. Offensively, I still think he makes an OK 2nd option, good 3rd option type player (we seem to have a lot of those, as always). He obviously has shot the ball poorly in the first two games, but if you look at the types of shots he's taken they are mostly good shots. When players shoot 40-50%, the short term variance (luck) is going to be huge. Two bad shooting games means very little to me with him, particularly when he looked good at times in the preaseason. I expect him to be the same player he was last year. One last point, to the Salmons haters in the thread today: relax. I saw a lot of crazy comments being made. One guy said we wasted money signing Salmons. We didn't sign him, we basically got him for Nocioni. If you remember how bad Noc's defense had become, you should love Salmons. I also heard another guy say he'd rather have Gordon than Salmons. Straight up, of course, anybody in the league would. But Salmons costs us 5.5 million this year. If Gordon wanted to sign for 5.5 million, everybody in the league would've tried to sign him. He cost twice that much, to put some perspective on the matter. I think having Pargo and Hunter as the 4-5th guard options is much scarier than the thought of Salmons starting at the 2. And the announcers talking about Salmons missing shots because he's adjusting to the 2 is ridiculous as well. If Brad Miller were our point guard getting open mid range looks and missing them, it would have nothing to do with his new position, pure nonsense. To conclude, I'm neither high nor low on Salmons. I think he'll be a consistently solid player in our rotation. If we have to lean on him too much, I may start to worry a bit, but as a starter and a 3rd scoring option he should be fine.
Brad Miller (neutral) - I think we can all agree he was an upgrade from Drew Gooden. He plays a more controlled offensive game than Gooden and is an all around smarter player. He's been sufficient as tag team lead and now backup Center as Noah develops. I don't want to trade him, but there is no denying in this economic climate, a 12.5 million dollar expiring contract can be quite valuable. If a trade presents itself to fill in any weak spot and add a legitimate 2nd scoring option to Rose, then it's going to be tough to pass it up. We might have to make a 2nd minor trade if we lose Miller, to secure our backup center role, but if Noah keeps progressing and one of the 2-4 position starters is lacking (and probably if we're in contention), we probably cannot afford to pass up on a good trade involving Miller. It's likely that the team that trades for Miller does so as a pure salary dump, so if we like him that much we can get him back for much less than 12.5 million next season.
Luol Deng (neutral) - This is one guy that is tough to analyze this early in the season, mainly because he's been out with injury and by all accounts is not 100% yet. In the first two games we've seen some flashes of solid defense, but he's missed too many rotations. On offense, he's still taking terrible shots. While he hit them in game one, even Kobe Bryant shouldn't be taking some of the catch and shoot shots that Deng seems to prefer over driving to the hole or passing the ball 19 feet away. If he continues to take these poor shots, he's going to slide into the negative for us this season. I don't expect him to be the player he was a few years ago, but an above average 3/4 combo who can hit smart shots from outside or use his length to outplay smaller guys would be perfect for our team. Combine that with solid defense, unlike what we've seen from him in the first two games, and Deng is giving us exactly what we need. Becoming a good 2nd scoring option on our team is a little unrealistic for Deng at this juncture, at least night in and night out. But if he and Salmons can combine for a decent 2nd scoring option that play good defense, that will more than suffice for this part of the rotation.
James Johnson (neutral/negative) - Has not given me anything except "he's one of those middle round potential draft picks." Not that you should expect a lot from non-lottery rookies, but I'd rather have seen the Bulls take a 3rd big man with this pick (and then not sign Gray) or a 4th guard (and not sign Pargo/Hunter) than take a combo forward that doesn't look like he can play in the rotation this year. This is another "it's still very soon" analysis, but so far I give it slightly negative points.
Aaron Gray (negative) - He's not a very important part of the Bulls, being less than 2% of their salary and playing as 3rd string center, so his improvement or lack there of should be taken in stride. He's always just been sort of a big body, but now he's hurt so it looks like he'll digress or stay the same (which is a net loss for a young backup) this season.
Jannero Pargo (negative) - He didn't have a positive impact on our team 3 years ago. He looked fine on the Hornets two years ago, but then went to Europe. Somehow he's our 4th guard, which on this team with Salmons as a transition 2/3 and Rose starting off hurt really means that Pargo will see more minutes than most 4th guards. He's looked like crap out there so far defensively, and offensively at best he's been quiet, at worst he's a streaky shooter that takes us out of the flow of our offense. I know his strengths don't play well to a controlled game, but if he can't play defense this year then we really need Rose and Hinrich healthy all season, as well as Salmons healthy and able to guard other team's 2. One thing everybody seems to agree on so far is that this was a pretty poor signing. So far it looks like everybody is correct, which is especially sad in a year with a lot of veteran and solid guys that could've been had for cheap at the end of the summer and taken the 4th guard slot.
Lindsey Hunter (negative) - It may sound harsh, but "why is he on our team?" really applies here. He isn't a 17 year Bulls veteran. He can't play anymore. If he has a coaching presence for our team, then I can understand keeping him on the team, but in a year where assistant coaches were shuffled, why not put him on as an assistant? With Pargo hurting us at the 4 guard, we really have no possible hope or potential for the 5th guard to overtake him. Why didn't we sign a flyer to a minimum contract? A young guy that might be able to develop against Hinrich's smarts and Rose's aggression during practice. I didn't understand this signing at all. When you combine it with the Pargo signing, it just adds up to two wasted roster spots on a team that can't really afford to do that.
Vinny Del Negro (neutral) - With his performance last year, he needs to be in the positive for improvement, staying steady will not allow the team to improve and will likely get him canned sooner or later. Other coaches keep talking up a storm about how good of a learner he is and how much potential he has as a coach. However, I don't see any direct evidence of this so far, but the "expert's" are keeping me from putting him into the neutral/negative category. He fails on 2 for 1s too frequently and he fails on rotations. The way he's handling the media has also been less than what you expect from a coach. In game 1 his rotations were fine, there wasn't too much to complain about, except for TT not coming in late and Pargo being in the lineup too long. The former is just one gripe, and the latter is probably more of a result of Rose's ankle, so I considered that a good step for Vinnie. However, the Boston game looked much worse in terms of rotation. If Salmons were playing solid defense, I'd of supported VDN not taking him out in the 2nd half, but he wasn't. You can live with missed shots if they are solid attempts, but not when a player is also playing poorly on defense. I think we'll really tell more about how far Vinny has come (if at all) as the season continues and (hopefully) Rose's ankle is healed and our rotations don't have to include as many tough "should I rest Rose another minute or two and keep Pargo in" questions.
Management (negative) - Finally last year, after so much anticipation and everybody saying we NEEDED to make a move, the management actually made the move. I'm referring mainly to the trade with the Kings, which was a very good one for us. The Hughes trade was fine too, but that's more of a makeup of the poor signing of Wallace a few year's back, which caused us to take Hughes which caused us to trade Hughes. This year, it started with the draft. The JJ pick was "well, didn't expect that, but let's see if we can see why they took him." So far, not great. The Taj pick was similar in my mind, and it's looking like a good use of the 26th pick to me. Hindsight is 20/20, but imagine if the Bulls had used their first pick on a 4/5th guard (Ty Lawson anyone?) and made a small move (cash considerations and/or future pick swap) to acquire an early 2nd round pick to nab up Blair. We wouldn't of had to sign Gray, we wouldn't of had to sign Pargo, and we could've taken a veteran guard as our other 4/5th spot instead of Hunter (one that can possibly play, Jason Williams or somebody like that). With Blair as our 3rd Center, we'd have more flexibility if somebody went down (like Hinrich or Salmons or TT) to trade our main piece (Miller's 12m expiring contract) for a true 2nd scoring option. Maybe that's not Stephen Jackson, but we all know that's not the last quality player that will be available before the deadline, and expiring contracts are particularly valuable this year. Instead? we are stuck with two signed guards that cannot play and a 3rd string center that hasn't ever looked like anything except a big body. If you notice, I haven't even mentioned their half assed attempt at pretending to want Gordon, or their lack of pursuing a real 2nd scoring option (or go into the tax to get it as the most profitable team in the league last year).
In conclusion, our ball movement in game one, as well as our improved defense, got me very hopeful. I know it's silly to expect that night in and night out (it really shouldn't be), but if we can play that way more often than last year, it'll be a good improvement and give us a chance to grab a 4-6 seed and possibly get into the 2nd round of the playoffs. Without everybody improving and clicking and staying healthy, we probably have no shot at getting any further than that. Even if that all happens, the talent and experience of the top teams is remarkable to me this year, so it's going to be as tough as ever to break through to the conference finals and beyond for any team not from Cleveland, Orlando or Boston.
And we did not even need to win against Boston tonight. You can't expect to beat Boston very often on the road when they shoot well, but if everybody played the way they did in the first game and we lost by 5-10 points, that would be a small victory (as much as you can take a victory from a loss) for the team and we would be starting the year off on a very good note. Instead, we get a lot of good, bad and ugly from this team, which is par for the course.
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How does John Salmons get a neutral?
Good, but not great D in one game, horrible defense in the other, and horrible offense in both games. I’d give him neutral/negative if I was feeling generous.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
What's his spin?
After two games this kind of analysis is hilarious.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Oct 31, 2009 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, by those measurements I’d have to give Luol a positive because his shots went in in game 1 at a high rate. He took bad shots, they went in in one game, Salmons took good shots overall, they didn’t go in.
Over the course of the season I’d rather have Salmons shots than Deng’s through two games.
I thought Salmons played much better D than Deng in game 1 though, Deng was the missing rotation in a lot of broken plays against the Spurs. Many of our guys played rather poor defense in the Celtics game, Salmons and Rose especially though.
Tyrus should be POSITIVE
VDN is a whack-job who doesn’t understand that in order to win games, you must play your BEST players. Ty had 22 minutes tonight and 25 against the Spurs—what a joke!
A rookie with no potential whatsoever taken with the 26th pick should not be cutting into Tyrus’ minutes like this. Quite frankly, it’s pathetic.
And Salmons? REALLY? A neutral? He’s like 5-30 or something thus far (I stopped counting b/c I was sick of vomitting) over two games! Ray Allen TORCHED him tonight! He’s playing like a ball-stopper on offense and giving us nothing on defense, yet he’s playing a million minutes. Again—What a joke!
VDN should get a triple negative. He can’t leave well enough alone and let our starters play together (plug Kirk in for Salmonella, though). They go four minutes in the first quarter and four in the second together—the rest of the game, we’re spinning our wheels with role-player after role-player entering the game while our supreme talent rots on the bench (coughTYRUScoughNOAHcoughROSE).
Can we really hold VDN to task for sitting guys at the tail end of a blowout loss in a back to back?
So what, TT played limited minutes? If that happens with the game on the line and TT playing well then fine let’s all complain about VDN’s minute distribution for TT, but this? I mean Lindsey Hunter got some burn tonight for God sake.
I’m with you, TT needs to play, but so far VDN did what he should with him given the game situation IMO.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 30, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No...but what about against the Spurs?
TT beasts in the 3rd quarter, basically giving us the game on a silver platter—then he rides the pine for the entire 4th quarter. That’s just ridiculous. You let TT finish the game because he was the one most responsible for that win.
Taj Gibson just scares the hell out of me because he’s a front-office darling who is going to get WAAAAAY too many minutes. Ty/Noah/Miller with a little Lu when we play small ball—that should be the frontcourt rotation. If there is foul trouble or it’s a blowout, fine—play Taj. Otherwise, leave him on the bench—he isn’t ready to be a rotation player.
And yet we won the Spurs game anyway.
The point is, neither one of these games should be a barometer for how TT minutes need to be handled, and WAAAAAAY too much focus is placed here on what feels like a daily basis. It’s also WAAAAAAY too early to start bitching about it already, wait until VDN actually loses a game for mishandling this and I promise you’ll get WAAAAAY more people on your bandwagon.
On another note… Considering that Bulls have elected to NOT extend TT’s contract and let him become a free agent next season (lunacy, but true), don’t you think it wise that we play his future “back up” to see exactly how crappy/great we’ll be without him? It’s a win win for you and TT. If he’s any good, then great we have a good player to take his place already (not likely), and if he isn’t ready (which of course is obvious) then we’ll all see that and maybe they can pony up some cash for TT. Or what I think is most likely, we pinpoint where to spend our huge cash windfall at seasons end, and it might be on somebody who can fill a void TT will left behind… IE: Chris Bosh maybe?
Again though, it’s only 2 games in.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 31, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions
The Spurs game was a slap in the face to TT
The game wasnt a blow out, there was a steady lead that TT helped open up, then he sat the bench in the crunch again. Had Rose not played the 4th quarter you would be saying what we’re saying about Tyrus, so it’s not wrong for us to complain when 1. he’s your starter 2. he can contribute 3. you just dont bench starters in the 4th quarter when the game is still up for grabs!
The only valid point you made was that TT wont be back so the Bulls might as well not give him the time he deserves, I have said this was why TT was being benched and minutes cut since the end of last years regular season, and it now appears I was right on the money!
I'm pumped
about this team going forward. Noah is probably the favorite to backup Howard in the all-star game. Tyrus/Miller/Taj complete a strong front line. Deng looks mostly healthy. Derrick’s played decently considering and should only get better. Salmons will be fine.
The Celtics game was ugly, but I have higher expectations than I did two games ago.
I wouldn't call Noah the favorite to backup Howard.
He might be in the discussion, but there are other decent centers- Brook Lopez, Shaq, Bargnani…
Considering it's a popularity contest...
Won’t it be Shaq in a landslide?
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 31, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Or is that just the starters?
And also… Who cares?
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 31, 2009 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I care
We haven’t had an all-star in 12 years! I think it’d be nice for our guys to get some deserved respect.
And yeah, the backups I think are picked by the coaches.
I think you're right.
And I totally agree- I would love to see one of our guys in the all-star game. I just don’t think Noah is getting there this year- although I really hope I’m wrong, because that means he’s playing great.
I still think Lopez will get the nod well before Noah does, and he probably deserves it.
Noah’s great and all, but he doesn’t have the complete game that Lopez does. Though I think Noah’s defense is better than Brook’s at this point.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 31, 2009 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd say it's the opposite
Lopez has the scoring ability, Noah has the complete game. With his jumpshot, he better have a complete game.
Unfortunately, if Lopez is scoring 17ppg while Noah’s at 10, Lopez probably gets the nod.
Noah's offense is much better this year - between his hooks, drives, and
(gulp) jumper, he could go for 13/13/3/2. But the whole all-star thing ain’t gonna happen. Because the backup for Howard is 7’2, 350, and thinks he’s a sheriff.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Shaq scored 6pts last night against hte TWolves...
do we really think the coaches will pick him for the AllStar team if he keeps this up?
out of respect for the hall of famer
who is possibly in his last season as a player in the nba….
….
….YES
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Oct 31, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's what I'm thinking...
A “special” roster slot could be made available i’m sure.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Nov 1, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
If he can get the minutes, I can see it.
He finishes down low, rebounds, defends, and he’s the best passing center in the east. Seriously, between Rose and Noah, we’ve got the 1 and 5 covered for the next decade. But man we’ve got to get some perimeter shooting.
And since we’re in the business of premature prognostications, I’m gonna call this one: Deng and Salmons for Michael Redd.
There. First trade proposal of the season. I shouldn’t have said it. And yet.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
lol
We trade Deng and Salmons …
forrrrrr …
Ben Gordon!
I could totally see it, too.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Oct 31, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
LOL! You're rec'ed
Because all kidding aside, that’s actually a fair trade and a better one then a trade for Micheal Redd. How sad is that?
impressive home wins and bad road losses
sounds just like the 2008-09 Bulls where they won games they should have lost at home and lost games they should have won on the road
"You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless! You gotta hope even more, and cover your ears and go 'bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!'"
I don't see how Vinny doesn't get the bulk of the blame for the Boston loss
He allowed Salmons to single handedly shoot the Bulls out of the game, then Salmons got lit up by Paul Pierce who had 20 in the third quarter alone if I’m not mistaken. It’s a reason Salmons has played almost ten years and nobody really knew who he was, because hes not a great player, good yes…at times, but not great. And Deng isn’t at full strength yet.
What does Hinrich's salary have to do with his on the court performance?
If you are analyzing the team’s player and the individual’s contribution to that team, then why does it even matter how much money he is making? It doesn’t matter…Nor does it matter that Pargo and Hunter are on the team, as they do not affect Hinrich’s contributions either…
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
And really? Spin it all you want on Salmons, and I like the guy a lot, he has been bad the first two games. The only positive thing he did in my opinion is keep the midget and the elderly on the bench.
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Oct 31, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure, but you can’t weight FG % through two games very highly, you have to look at the types of shots the guys are getting and how they are playing on the offensive end.
The post would be totally worthless if all I did was compare people offensively based on pure results in games 1 and 2.
I’m sure teams don’t draft players because they hit 20/30 shots in a team workout, and they don’t decide not to draft them because they hit 10/30.
The short term variance of any shooter is so extraordinary it’s just hardly worth talking about over 20 or 30 attempts if a guy is hot or not, it’s really not indicative of how his season will play out. If a guy isn’t driving or not playing D, it’s a much bigger concern I would imagine.
You're rating people after two games
That’s worthless.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Oct 31, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think it’s worthless.
I suspect the people that make the lines for season records would disagree with you as well.
You’re telling me we haven’t learned anything new about this team since the Game 7 loss in the spring?
There’s always uncertainty, this blog could not exist if things were certain of we all waited until game 82 to talk about how the regular season went.
I’m just trying to convey my idea of where our team stands after the preseason and the first two games compared to last season.
Ten games
Is such a small sample size it’s worthless, especially if 8 of those were exhibitions. Predictions before a season is different from review and analysis after 10.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Oct 31, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
So I guess there’s no reason to analyze or breakdown how players are performing until like the all star break?
I think the replies in this thread and my original post hit on a lot of potential problems we might have, as well as some indications of some solid or improved play.
All I'm saying is
In two games, anything can happen. Two games isn’t enough to base something off of. All two games shows us is what a player has the potential to do.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
You’re right, I probably did dwell too much on Hinrich’s salary.
My point is that we paid him that much a few seasons ago for a reason, his performance. He was hurt last year, so that’s why I’m not putting huge positives on Hinrich’s performance thus far, it’s basically what we do expect out of him and he’s no longer hampered by an injury (like Deng).
I still had Kirk leaning positive for a reason, he’s playing well offensively, taking good shots and showing us that he’s a good 3rd guard.
My point about Hunter and Pargo is that we are relying on Hinrich’s health more than we should be this season.
If we had capable 4th and 5th guards, we might be able to lose Hinrich for a month in the season if he were injured, but Pargo as 3rd guard and Hunter as 4th would be pretty damn scary to me right now and you can’t play with two healthy guards in this league, let alone an injury hampered Rose and SF moving to SG Salmons. If Deng goes down, we have Salmons/TT/Gibson that can be used in various rotations to makeup for the loss. If TT goes down we can use Deng and Gibson, along with Noah at PF a bit. Our biggest problem would be if one of our guards went down or if Noah went down. At least if Miller goes down we can still trade his expiring contract for a good player.
I like your point about the backup guards
I think some fans don’t blame management enough. Pax or Gar could have easily made a move to take some of the pressure off of Hinrich, deepen the bench, and improve the team going forward. Ty Lawson was freaking sitting there and they went and took JJ. Here’s a guy that’s not even going t o play that much this year. Then they go and draft Gibson, who I kinda like, but here’s the thing: If he was so good, how did you pass on him with your first pick? So in other words, they got lucky with him.
Besides they drafted those kids to replace Tyrus as opposed to drafting someone that could replace Hinrich and also give you flexibility if a trade of Hinrich is needed. So instead of taking the best player available, they draft to cover up other stupid decisions that they already made. Just watch, these guys will be spending the next 3 years looking for a dependable outside shooter to help Rose. People may not want to admit it but the Hinrich and Deng contracts and their over value as players have ruined this team and will for the next 5 to 10 years.
Ty should be positive
He hasn’t taken jumpers as much as last year, and it’s great to see him slashing so much. That’s when he’s effective.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 31, 2009 9:00 AM CDT reply actions
I think both Ty and Noah have been great in limited minutes.
Noah p/36 – 17, 14.4, 4.5 apg, 2.9 bpg
Ty 17, 13, 2.5 bpg
We’re just playing them 25 mpg.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
whose fault is that?
Its sad when your coach doesn’t understand playing your best players more gives you a better chance to win
So far I leaned Tyrus closer to positive than negative.
He got too emotional again last night, he looked lost after that foul in the 1st half when he stood by the bench like he was going to be taken out, then kind of wandered around for a second and ran back on defense. That and a fairly poor night on D against the Celtics kept me from giving him a positive. If we want to be a contender without a true 2nd scoring option, we need everybody to play within themselves and play good D. Tyrus is usually known as a defensive presence for our team, we get giddy when he puts up 15 pts in a game. So his defense looking good in game 1 and poor in game 2 puts him at about the same level as last year, which is not very positive. His offense, on the other hand, looks controlled and just what we need out of him. So neutral pts for defense so far and positive points for offense.
Taj is a fine bench player
but he should be used the same as pargo, end of quarter minutues, and some junk minutes here and there to give the good players a breather…im sort of sick of taj already. Last night in the first half i thought we were dong fine staying on the heels of the celtics, and then at some point in the second quarter for an extended period i saw a lineup of hinrich, pargo, salmons, taj, and miller….with salmons not doing too well that lineup was an offensive (and a defensive) disaster…that lineup was out there way too long for my taste…and i wanna say the begining of the end
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
That lineup was brutal.
But I feel like we don’t lose much out there with Gibson. He hustles, plays decent defense and he’ll take the right shots if he has them, otherwise he can pass the ball adequately.
Pargo, on the other hand, does not play very good defense and often seems to disrupt our offense. He’s not good enough to be a scoring option either.
But putting your end of rotation guys in with your middle rotations guys for an extended period against a top flight team doesn’t sound like a good idea. The lineup you mentioned has our 3rd and 4th guards, 2nd guard/SF who is shooting cold atm, + our rookie end of rotation player and crafty but somewhat limited backup center. That is a shit lineup.
I’d like to see Taj sub in when TT has some fouls or needs a breather, but I don’t like a bottom end rotation with him in it. As I said in my post, he’s not a playmaker, just a solid end of rotation bench player who can fill in some minutes without us losing much. Pargo is fine for a 5th guard in my mind, but our 5th guard doubles as a night janitor at the UC I think.
Gibson also has hands of stone.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Oct 31, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
If I made this post today I would change:
Salmons to neutral/negative. He’s now taking some bad shots and looked super sloppy anytime he handled the ball. It’s still early, but I’m starting to question his ability to play against quicker defenders at his new position. He has been less than stellar and worse than last season on defense as well. Strange for a guy that could opt out and potentially make 2-3 million more in the offseason if he has a strong year. He just does not look sharp, even if he’s hitting more of the open shots now.
Tyrus to neutral. Not much of a reflection of how he’s played, more of a reflection on how often (or lack thereof) he’s played. Even if it’s some hatred or dislike that VDN has for him that’s causing this, a player can’t be too valuable for us if he’s not out on the floor when it matters.
James Johnson to negative. Didn’t even get a minute when Tyrus was out, didn’t show us anything in his rare minutes this season. Not very hopeful that he’ll contribute this season so far, barring mass injuries.
Luol Deng to neutral/positive. Since it’s still early, another solid game or two will get him into a positive outlook. He’s growing every game it seems, taking less poor shots and getting more aggressive. He was very aggressive today which was great. If the last two games were the first two of the season he would lead my positive rankings.

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