Open Game Thread #1 OVERFLOW 2: Bulls vs. San Antonio Spurs
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 29, 2009 10:00 PM CDT
125 comments
I'll try and post another stub for post-game. Have I mentioned this is my first season with a blackberry?
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wooooo
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 29, 2009 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to see Miller punching Rondo on the face for what he did in the playoffs
(sorry, I couldn’t contain myself)
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
by bull83 on Oct 29, 2009 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls were saving JJ for tomorrow
The rest of the Bulls are going to come out in their uniforms. JJ will be wearing 8 ounce gloves and a bicycle shorts that say “condom depot” on the back.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 29, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 29, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The lights will go off and when they come back on
there’s gonna be an Octogan down on the floor and JJ is gonna have Rondo in an armbar!
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ben who?
Doug Collins was right when he said that he did not notice the ball being “stalled” much or at all during the game. Maybe salmons did one time. BUT i think this ball movement and the amount of energy they played with was great. I’m hoping for a good season!
by K_yle33 on Oct 29, 2009 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
also
i’ve missed deng playing like this. he showed alot of energy and good movement without the ball! i really like how del negro has set up this offense, with simple plays that gets everyone involved or screen/rolls.
by K_yle33 on Oct 29, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree and....
…while both teams shot the ball the same the Bulls had 8 more rebounds, 4 more blocked shots and 5 fewer turnovers. That’s all good news against a veteran team like the Spurs.
by Noe_Valley on Oct 29, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before we go too crazy praising the offense, the Bulls only put up 102.2 points per 100 possessions
which is really, really bad. The only thing is they held the Spurs to 94.4 points per 100 possessions, which is really, really, really great. The defense won this one, not the offense.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 29, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering that the Spurs DRating
Was 104 last year, 102.2 is more average than bad. And considering we did that while shooting 3/16 from 3’s and missing nine FTs, I’d rate it a solid offensive effort. The shots will fall eventually given how open everyone was.
by YaoPau on Oct 29, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, I just think the credit needs to be distributed more to the D than to the mythical ball movement
— which, in fairness, was really visible tonight. They made the extra pass. Unfortunately it ended with a Salmons brick too many times.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 29, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You eat numbers for breakfast, don't you?
Or are you really “The Google’s” sentient emergence?
by Bill Cartwright's Elbow on Oct 29, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know the meaning
of about four words in that last sentence
by YaoPau on Oct 29, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would at least wait
until Salmons can prove that he can score consistently before starting the BG who stuff. It’s cute when playing an old Spurs team at home, on their back to back to watch Salmons score 10 points in 40 mins. We’ll see what happens when Deng isn’t shooting well and you don’t get 23 pts from your frontcourt, and you need you starting 2 guard to score some serious pts and carry this team and maybe even hit a big shot or two.
by Dils on Oct 29, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose had 2 oooh - aaaah moves on a bum ankle
He looked really good out there and his defense improved. Hopefully he isn’t too sore tomorrow for the Celts
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 29, 2009 10:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He also boarded better tonight (7 rebs)
by Illini15 on Oct 29, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
6 of which were defensive, which is just huge.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 29, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was very pleased with that.
It not only helps a team weakness, but leads to transition opportunities.
by Scotter on Oct 29, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you'd be looking at that. I noticed in just watching first, and then checked
the box score to see if my eyes were deceiving me, but nope 7 boards. Awesome.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 29, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls' 1st game
Not a BG hater by any means but that’s the most ball movement i’ve seen by the Bulls in many years. The only way we know it is/isn’t because of BG being gone is if it continues through the season. Hope so. Great Win!
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or the fact that Noc, Gooden, Hughes, etc are not on the team.
We were playing pretty well by the end of last season after all.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, there still wasn't consistent good ball movement at the end of last year.
It was still an isolation fest. I’m not blaming Gordon for that, but when you take him out of the equation everyone gets to touch the ball more and has to be more involved.
by Scotter on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true.
Everyone has to pull their weight every night more or less. Hopefully no one had an off night the same night someone else does.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great passing!! Great defensive rebounding!!
I liked the extra passes for the open 3. I liked seeing Hinrich, Rose and Deng making the extra effort on the defensive glass (16 drebs between them!). Spurs were the league’s worst oreb team last year, but even still, it looks like VDN stressed guard rebounding and it paid off.
Also, here’s the shot chart from the game. Notice the complete lack of Spurs field goal attempts in the paint. Go Bulls!!
by YaoPau on Oct 29, 2009 10:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree! A lot of extra passes for open shots. Not all fell but you have to like the effort to share the ball
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point CRAN. Those guys were bad but still, BG was a focal point of the offense more than any of those other guys and at times his handling of the ball killed us. He was great but the team sometimes struggled with his antics.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Look I am happy with the win and I wasn't a huge BG fan but
Gordon still scored 22 in his Detroit opener and Salmons sucked huge donkey balls tonight. Hopefully J-fish will turn it around but I am mildly terrified of him having a bad season and then not opting out of his contract.
by Bullbo Baggins on Oct 29, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had a blackbery for a year
they’re awesome… but I think I want a droid now.
by 72-10 on Oct 29, 2009 10:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Initial thoughts
1) They really played their asses off. Second chance points were key.
2) Derrick had a very solid game for not playing in 27 days. Still looks a bit tentative but that will pass.
3) Noah played very well against Duncan despite Duncans’ stat line. A lot of his shots were just flat out difficult and impossible to guard.
4) Back to the future. Hinrich and Deng flashed back to their old selves. We can only hope that contines throughout the rest of the seaso.
5) Tyrus played a nice overall game as well. I love how he just went with the flow of the game instead of forcing anything.
6) The bench. Even though we seem set on a 7 man rotation, it still seems like we have enough depth to continually outscore the other teams bench frequently.
7) Ball movement. It’s been mentioned before but you can easily tell the game looked more fluid then past games. I won’t say it’s cause BG is gone … yet.
8) The defense looked much improved but I also believe the Spurs looked fatigued and missed some flat out easy shots.
9) Taj is the perfect kind of back of 4 that will give you profuctivity every night. Doesn’t look like you’ll see him have many awful games. Impressive for a rook.
10) I still can’t stand VDN. His substitution pattern still looks too familiar to last years. But hey, he loves versatility!
by Option27 on Oct 29, 2009 10:21 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I missed the game...
could you expand on point 10? Was he at least passable? They won, so it couldn’t have been that bad right?
by 72-10 on Oct 29, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he went back to small ball
It worked well but I just hope it’s not a constant thing. Tyrus was pulled a couple questionable times. Pargo shouldn’t be used at all unless it’s necessary. And Noah coulda had more PT as well, but that woulda messed with his small line ups.
by Option27 on Oct 29, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did fine.
I’d say there’s reasonable hope that VDN could be an asset this year… I know, I know. I did say “hope”. TNT spent a fair amount of time talking him up. If nothing else, year 2 has got to be an improvement on year 1. Right?
by Bill Cartwright's Elbow on Oct 29, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was experimenting with lineups. The season is still young. If this stuff is still happening
in a few weeks, then I’ll be pissed. He did just beat Pop and the Spurs, so I’m going to take it easy on VDN for a little while.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taj was not what you would call good.
He took some bad shots.
He was active and got the line and hit. Considering where he was drafted, that’s fine but I’m not sold on him being a useful player yet.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 29, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just cause he missed the shots, I wouldn't call them bad shots
They were within the offense as well as Tyrus’ shots. I loved his energy (yes, I used energy).
by Option27 on Oct 29, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, I don't recall him taking any out of rythm shots
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He forced a few inside but nothing too crazy. Overall positive game from Taj. Looks better than Blair from what I could see. What you think?
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blair has his niche,
and seems really good at it. Taj seems to have more offense and is quicker on his feet, but Blair is a monster on the boards. Blair looked great last night, Taj looked aight tonite, both did well relative to their draft slots.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True! If you could choose, who would you want for the Bulls? Blair or Taj?
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure.
Gotta see more outta both. If Taj can consistently knock down that 10-15 footer that’ll be huge.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'm actually very happy with Taj
They’re similar to an extent but something tells me Blair would take MAJOR minutes away from Tyrus if he was on our team
by Option27 on Oct 29, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
blair looked fine
but they needed their scorers on the floor since they trailed most of the game so he didn’t get much PT. he battled for a couple good boards in there.
taj looked fine too, just missed some open shots. there was a putback or two he maybe should have gotten but some nerves are understandable in his first real pro game, battling duncan and mcdyess and all. there was one point later in the game where he got the ball on the baseline with a clear path to the basket but shot and missed a 10-footer instead. i’d like to see him be a little more agressive, take the ball to the basket and score or draw a foul rather than falling in love with that jumper.
wait…who am i talking about…?
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Oct 29, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HaHa Taj Gibson! Steal of the draft LoL
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Tyrus' shots were questionable too
But he hit some. If he’s add a mid-range jumper to his game, that’s a good fit for the Bulls offense.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 29, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus did force some shots early on, and rode the pine because of it,
but got his stuff together and had a strong 2nd half, sans that dumb pass to Kirk. He had some monster blocks too. Good stuff all around tonight.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put Option. I just hope they come out tomorrow and play well vs. the ugh Celtics.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
please use reply. makes the page easier to read for the rest of us.
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Oct 29, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's how Vinnie learned some things this summer
Bulls coach Vinny Del Negro has a fan in Popovich. “What Vinny does is he takes it seriously and works his (butt) off,” Popovich said. “In the summertime, he didn’t just go on vacation. He talked to a lot of us. He wanted to discuss basketball. He wanted to know how we do things here and there. And why we do this and why we do that.”
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
by bull83 on Oct 29, 2009 10:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Popovich is a liar. I saw Vinny on vacation in Vegas during the summer. Even shook his hand and said hello to his gorgeous wife. Oh wait, he was their for the USA team workouts/tryouts. HaHa give the guy a break. Let’s see how the season plays out
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So Salmons was something like +2 on the night
Which I think shows the limitations of +/-. That was not a good game from him, and they will really need some offense out of him this season.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 29, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's one game. No point in getting caught up in shooting %s
That Salmons was pretty good on defense and picked up 3 steals is more important.
by Scotter on Oct 29, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't a total black hole, which was my fear.
Took a couple of stupid shots, but we just have to live with that. Salmons really had some nice drives to the hoop and missed a few open 3s. The team as a whole missed a bunch of gimmes.
The main thing is for Vinny to just stick with lineups that are playing well. He went crazy with the subs and rotations at the first sign of trouble last season.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 29, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons is the guy best able to create a decent shot when the offense breaks down (IMO)
It should be Rose, but he’s not as aggressive with the ball as he should be in those situations. By the end of the season maybe he’ll be the guy.
Anyway, I’m not arguing Salmons sucks or he shouldn’t get the ball — I think the Bulls need his offense this season.
I wasn’t ripping on Salmons as much as I was on +/-. He played with effort on D as far as I could tell and I didn’t think his shot selection was horrible (it could have been better, but still).
by hitlesswonder on Oct 29, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons had a bad shooting night.
and they still won. You have to be positive about that.
I've got this thing and it's fucking golden!
by SoulEater7 on Oct 29, 2009 10:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn;t see him force too many shots.
by MrBungle on Oct 29, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wasn't. he bricked mostly wide open looks off of his teammates making the extra pass.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 29, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has got to get use to shooting on catch and shoot opportunities
a couple of times he got the ball, looked down to make a move, and there was no one guarding him.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 29, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice observation. Did any of the knuckleheads on tv mention that?
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off balanced contested fade away? You missed that? He did it a couple times at least.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing too out of control though. A fadeaway is not a horrible shot as long as the person is good at it. Which Salmons is.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's his bread and butter shot.
It’s not like he doesn’t make it more than any player has a right to.
by Scotter on Oct 29, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, that's his game
It’s like a controlled version of playground shooting. I kind of like it. If anything it is just deceptive.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Oct 29, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep! Got that dribble hesitation move where he could pull up at any moment or drive to the basket. Deceptive it is.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like he kinda fades away on
all his shots. He kinda tilts backwards a little bit. Pretty wierd.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he wasn’t really forcing too much. Mostly everything was in the flow of the offense. Plus he played some good D on Ginobili and even Jefferson. Salmons will be fine
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons played terrific defense
I was at the game and he never seems to go for head fakes. He shut down Ginobli the second half. This was a great win. Hinrich looked terrific. He had great energy and definitely was a factor on defense. When we had dry spells I thought our defense kept us in the game. This is the big difference without having to always deal with the problem match-ups that Gordon caused defensively. This was really fun. I was on the isle in section 101 and was able to high-five Deng, Noah and Rose as they were introduced. I thought Noah played good defense on Duncan. Duncan was just unstoppable. Great way to start the season.
by chgobr on Oct 29, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only angle area bank shot i recall him missing
was the uncontested one.
sometimes i wonder if the defender isn’t better off giving him room and just thinking “psych” thoughts on the ball as it goes. seriously, and i’ve seen way too much spurs over the last 5 or so years……
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
by marionette on Oct 29, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and your point about salmons d
is correct. the suns sure could’ve used him back then….
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
by marionette on Oct 30, 2009 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the post game thread should be a regular occurrence
I hate going into the game threads and talking about the game. Although it is funny to track the freak outs
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 29, 2009 10:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap...this team looks fun to watch play (unlike 2 years ago)
The team had only 9 turnovers against a typically good defensive team.
Deng played well and did a lot of little things.
Tyrus made a few jump shots.
Noah looks good.
Rose is healthy enough to have 7 rebounds, 7 assists, and only 1 TO.
Hinrich played decent.
And the Bulls outrebounded the Spurs pretty much the entire game.
Good game. Hope they keep it up.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Oct 29, 2009 10:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And 6 players scoring in double figures, including THE ENTIRE STARTING LINE-UP.
How often does that happen?
by KentuckyBullsFan on Oct 29, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of the time when I play with the Bulls on Xbox Nba2k10
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biggest things IMO.
1)Deng looked really good tonight, spotting up from different spots and even posting up a bit. He did force some shots but it looks like Deng is up to the task of posting 18pts, 8 boards nightly.
2) Noah was really, really active, and finished pretty well around the rim, his missed dunk non-withstanding. He has all the confidence in the world right now, and there aren’t many centers in the East better than him.
3) Pargo didn’t get much burn. Looks like Vinny knows what he has in Pargo, a 4th or 5th guard good for 5-8 mpg.
4) Defensive rotations and ball movement. The entire defenses shifted pretty well and didn’t allow many easy buckets. On offense there was some excellent passing, and as long as Salmons can post shooting percentages in line with last season our three point shooting should be more than good.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 10:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Deng still has no move if he doesn't shoot of the mid post receive
He still looks great on the cuts. If he had a left hand shot off the dribble in the paint it would a great penetration move if his defender is playing that mid post jump shot tight.
The work on defense is showing. Our bigs were really out high on the high screens to cut off Parker. Parker had no 2nd half points thanks to two nice blocks from Tyrus.
Here’s what I see emerging with no Gordon. There’s no instant offense or a guy to bail you out of the shot clock. Therefore, the defensive possessions are much more critical. You have to get stops there because that’s where you’re going to win games. That’s what happened in the 3rd. Tyrus turned it on around the defensive rim, the guard rebounded, and we pushed the ball hard.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Oct 29, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
You’re right about Deng, he has no moves, but he never has had any. He benefits from quality ball movement and the occasional mis-match, and is fairly disciplined defensively. Like you noted, a decent handle would help a ton, but he’s just not that type of guy. He’s too awkward and lanky for that type of offense.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think Deng can dribble with his left
What I think he needs is a soft floater with his left or just some shot that will allow him to use his length. If he goes left and has to pull back to put up a two hand set shot or something with his right hand he loses elevation making it easier to block.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Oct 29, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he can beat defenders off the dribble with the left hand.
Occasionally he’ll bust a move(like he did on Lebron a few years back), but I don’t think he has the quickness to get by defenders off the dribble. He also dribbles with his head kinda down, so he’s very susceptible to getting blocked by the help defender, like Duncan slid right over and owned him on one of his drives from the right wing.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw deng
try and drive once or twice with the ball, not his usual stuff which was nice to see
by The90sBullsRevival on Oct 29, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deng is good. Just needs to stay healthy. He scared me on the one rebound attempt in the 4th where he came down awkwardly on one foot. I thought his achillies was done. i hope he stays healthy
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with 1) – 2) – 3) but 4 they were just a little inconsistent on the Defensive rotations. The Spurs got quite a few easy buckets in the 2nd quarter but overall the D was solid. Especially Thomas’s help D. Passing was phenomenal and Salmons will be fine.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 10:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kirk's got a real good shot at 6th man this year if he keeps it up
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 29, 2009 10:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That would be cool. Especially since BG was unwilling to accept that role. Kirk seems to have a little more pep in his step.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He accepted it. I don't remember him throwing fits. Do you?
He’s accepted it over in Detroit too without complaint. That’s never been his problem. The problem from a fans point of view is when the Duhons and Thabos of the league play in front of him. Playing behind an equal or better guy isn’t an issue.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say he threw fits but I know he did not accept it. If he did, he would have won 6th man award. But they don’t get paid like starters. Not mad at him.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did win the sixth man award as a rook, didn't he?
The only reason he didn’t any other year was because he started too many games.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not know he won his rookie year. Thanks for the info. Just wierd how he accepted it his rookie year(having no choice) then not again because he wanted to be starter and get paid. Gets paid now accepts it again with Detroit until a few years from now. Again, not a hater but he is definitely more effective off of the bench.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a few things
rookie year he really had no choice, but the years thereafter…the two best guards on the team were kirk and gordon. It was insane not to start him those years. With rose added to the roster maybe some argument couldve made to move gordon to the bench but basically hinrich got injured and even more to the point, hinrich is still a combo guard more towards the pg part of the spectrum where bg is nothing but a sg, so it made more sense anyway (but i suppose if hinrich had been healthy an argument couldve been made).
As for hinrich not complaining as 6th man, he may not be complaining but he already stated his goal for this year is to be a starter, so its not like he has no qualms about coming off the bench…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Oct 29, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Stuff! Happy i came on here to receive all of this great information from fellow Bulls fans. Hard to come by in NY.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is the same when he starts or when he comes off the bench.
This has been gone over a zillion times over the years. Stats don’t lie. And once again, he never complained about coming off the bench or starting like some people do. He always says “however the coach wants to use me” etc etc. Even when the rest of the world thinks it was weird Duhon was starting Gordon never said a word about it.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never understood that.
Ben was a consummate professional here, he worked hard, didn’t complain and did what was asked of him. He was always in top shape and did some really good things for the Bulls. I don’t get the haters.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand people liking other Bulls players more than BG.
Often times it is a matter of taste or whatever style of basketball you prefer over another, but the revisionist stuff is going to get old. Newsflash: BG didn’t cause trouble through the media or in the locker room, even during that really bad year when everyone was wigging out. BG had an excellent shooting % . BG played well with Rose. BG contributed here until his last game as a Bull and afterward hasn’t trashed anyone through the media. Seriously, whenever you say something good about the team now you don’t have to follow it up with “unlike BG” or every time you say something bad follow it with “back when we had BG”.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
The only thing that I'll quibble with is that Gordon played well with Rose.
Rose turned out to be far too similar to Ben for that to be an effective pairing.
by Scotter on Oct 29, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose still got rookie of the year
and had an excellent year alongside Gordon. I could see in a year or two when Rose gets his defense sorted out Gordon would have been more of a 3 point shooter to Rose’s inside game and their coexisting would have been all that much better. Gordon would spread the floor and Rose would have all the lane he’d ever want. The worst part of last year was Rose’s defense being atrocious, but I think we can all agree that that was only a temporary problem and not a career long problem. That scenario is not to be though so it doesn’t really matter.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word. Rondo in last years playoffs was evidence of that. He killed Rose on offense.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose already did a lot to redeem himself
with that block on Rondo’s shot. Hopefully he turned the leaf over there. I’d love to see him torch Rondo on both ends tomorrow. Rondo got it too easy on half of the court last playoffs.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. The Bulls MUST play well tomorrow to earn respect around the NBA. I wouldn’t mind a few cheap shots thrown just to let em know we here
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't a temporary problem. It was a long term problem.
Ben can competently defend the lesser threat in a backcourt. He can’t defend primary scorers. That wasn’t going to change. Rose is at least 2-3 seasons away at best away from being a guy who could cover for Gordon on defense, and it’s probably never going to happen.
I wanted Ben and Derrick to work going into the season and it clearly didn’t. So Ben had to go either this last summer or in a trade this upcoming summer. Last season made it clear that I’d choose Hinrich over Ben every time because of Derrick.
by Scotter on Oct 29, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't see it 'clearly' not working
and it was one season, Rose’s rookie one. It could’ve also been the best offensive backcourt in the league, and you can always find some swing guy off the bench to take some defensive pressure off. Even Hinrich if the Bulls were an actual big-market team.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 29, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was clearly not working if the goal is to have that
be a successful playoff backcourt. You can’t have that big of a defensive liability against good teams in a playoff series. During the regular season? Sure, it’s fine. Lots of shit works in the regular season. Rose and Hinrich worked significantly better than Rose and Gordon for the same reason that the Hinrich and Gordon backcourt was still by far the best combination last season. Hinrich covers up for the other guy’s liabilities on defense. And his offensive versatility meshes better with a ball dominant SG or a scoring PG than Gordon and Rose mesh with each other.
by Scotter on Oct 29, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want versatility ahead of points
and Gordon could carry the offense when Rose would be out of games.
I think Hinrich’s offensive shortcomings could be just as exposed in a playoff series.
Besides, Hinrich’s no championship fit either since he’ll be past 30 by the time the Bulls are ready to start their Rose dynasty (or something). So just retain Gordon and try to make it work, and trade him if it doesn’t. I wouldn’t have minded having teams worried about matching up with us for a change.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 30, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to score more points than the opposition.
And that wasn’t going to happen against good teams with Derrick and Ben in the backcourt. Ben’s a good, but not great scorer. It’s level of scoring replaceable by even a 2nd tier free agent. A 2nd tier free agent that also contributes more in the non-scoring aspects of the game than Ben. I liked Ben, but he didn’t belong anymore and I won’t miss him. Even if he drops 40 on the Bulls. And I don’t think the team will miss him much this season.
by Scotter on Oct 30, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could've been an even better scorer
alongside a matured Rose. Even more with productive big men. Never had that chance, and never will. He’s only 26 and works like crazy at his game.
I think you gave up on the tandem early, and don’t think they had to make a decision on it now. This team needs more talent, the ‘fit’ stuff can come when they’re ready to contend. We have a well fitting team now that’ll be undone soon for more talent (hopefully) anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 30, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also wonder
if we’re not expecting enough of Rose to think he can’t ever ‘make up’ for Gordon’s lack of an impact in other areas of the game. That means he’s a tier or two below the top superstars, which means this team isn’t going anywhere.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 30, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm.
I still think Rose is going to improve a lot defensively even this year and the problem would have not been a big deal. Especially with Noah and Tyrus getting better defensively themselves. Even last year much of the problem was our front court defense not even doing the minimum. Even if your back court has excellent defenders guys will get by them and that is where the front court is supposed to step in. If they don’t that is going to hurt everyone. This year we are expecting them to improve along with Rose. And there is always a defensive SG that can come off the bench. Ideally you’d want a guy who could do both at every position, but that isn’t really how it works for most teams. Some guys are better at one or the other. As long as the team is on the same page defensively you can work with it. Last year we were not. Deng being gone seems to have been a big part of it and then we had Gooden and Noc in the mix. Noah was out of shape during the first half of the season. All of those things would have still been true even if Kirk or someone else were at the two.
People think “Oh wow, BG is gone and suddenly things look better” when really Noc, Hughes, Gooden, are gone, Salmons and Miller are in, Noah and Tyrus are maturing, Rose has a year under him, and Kirk and Deng are back in the lineup.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Derrick's going to quickly improve to the point where he
can defend the other team’s best guard how soon? And do you even want him doing that? Even if I thought Derrick could get to that place quickly, I think I’d rather have Derrick saving energy for offense.
A defensive backup SG isn’t any kind of solution to the problem because it does nothing about the 1st 10 minutes of each half when the other team’s best perimeter scorer is blowing by the Bulls backcourt. And it doesn’t make much of an impact when you’re two defensive liabilities are both playing 35 minutes.
Ben eventually had to go simply because he didn’t fit anymore. If Derrick wasn’t the draft pick then I would have been perfectly fine keeping Ben long term. I’d didn’t come to this position quickly. I spent years defending Ben Gordon, and argued for him to start next to Rose at the before last season.
by Scotter on Oct 30, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True! Well said. But I do so because I know it’s a hot topic of discussion around here. If I was on TV with the media I would never bad mouth him. This is just fan talk amongst die hards. I don’t hate BG. Trust me. But for sake of fandom and conversation, it is all worth discussing.
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is getting less revelent
as he isn’t on the team anymore. Let the debunked arguments rest. There is enough Tyrus/Taj conflict to keep us going for the rest of the year I think.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Oct 29, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hear you. I will only respond to some1 else talking about it from now on. I promise!
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I’m not saying he won’t be a good sixth man, because I think he will, but Jason Terry, Ben Gordon, JR Smith and Manu Ginobli are much more likely to claim the award.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
by dakoose on Oct 29, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
recap is up
woooooo!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 29, 2009 11:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Recap of Bulls game
Was the ankle an issue?
“Not at all,” said Rose, who played 33 minutes.
YAAAAAAAY!!!
by DontLikeUgly on Oct 29, 2009 11:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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