Sam Smith: Lay off VDN for saying Bulls have no Title shot

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 28, 2009 8:24 AM CDT Comment 30 comments

I thought the story (albeit minor) in VDN's radio interview hang-up Tuesday was just another instance of him seeming overwhelmed. Not being the fact that when asked about Rose's future role on a Championship team, VDN rhetorically asked if the Bulls had a championship squad right now 'with all these young guys'.

But apparently that was news enough to force Vinny to follow up in practice that day, and Sam Smith is right to defend him: it was a refreshingly honest statement that needs no apology.

The front office made it very clear this past offseason they weren't competing for a championship anytime soon, and you could even say they made it clear last offseason they're a long way from getting a championship coach. That isn't news. This team's goal is to make the playoffs and maintain itself as a desirable free agent destination.

So Vinny was merely saying the truth, though I still don't quite get how that response makes sense in the context of using Rose in the 4th quarter of games. If Vinny felt his team is that far off from a title, wouldn't that give him more reason to throw Rose in the deep waters?

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before we lay off Vinny

or give him any credit for being refreshingly honest I think this observation is important:

So Vinny was merely saying the truth, though I still don’t quite get how that response makes sense in the context of using Rose in the 4th quarter of games.

It wasn’t about honesty but his way of defending an idiotic mistake he made. If anything it was a sad deflection of the question as he tried to justify his decisions.

by diedaily23 on Oct 28, 2009 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Woah, I thought this said "lay off" as in fire when i first read it.

Was surprised that bulls.com would let Sam write something like that. But I get it now.

Still think it’s a terrible thing for a coach to say though.

by Diz on Oct 28, 2009 8:48 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs

lol..that's my subconscious

by diedaily23 on Oct 28, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am the last person to defend VDN, generally, but he’s really done nothing wrong here.

-Lu Galasso

by Lu Galasso on Oct 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ben Gordon is not here

Ben Gordon is not here to take Derrick Rose’s 4th Quarter minutes.

by bbmichal on Oct 28, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He wasn't even taking Rose's minutes at the end of last year

It was no longer an issue after February. Which makes it weird Silverman would bring it up, and weirder VDN would flip over it.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 28, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think VDN was upset with the tone Silverman used and the snickering in the background.

I can see how thats a sensitive subject for him.. I mean his boss had to undermine his judgement on how to play Rose obviously thats embarrassing and Rose was clearly failing to get the job done in the 4th for a short time, which was costing them wins which will cost VDN his job… at least thats how I see it from perspective.

But eventually Rose just needed to be in there because nothing else on the team was really working at the time and yeah he needed to be the man.

I think people forget that Rose did struggle at times last season and it cost them some wins in the 4th quarter.

It was a tough spot but at the same time VDN didn’t have any plays for Derrick to run in late game situations. It was all isolation plays.

I've got this thing and it's fucking golden!

by SoulEater7 on Oct 28, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

VDN was also upset at the host "giving some advice"

VDN reacted to a radio host telling him how to do his job. I hear something like “Let me give you some advice…” That’s going to set a guy off and the hosts knew it.

by Noe_Valley on Oct 28, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vinny needs to get better a 'sophmoric putdowns'

I read somewhere I’m good at that.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 28, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"You have problems with my coaching?"

“I have problems with your hair!”
[pulls out hairbrush]

I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]

by Prevenge on Oct 28, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs

nice

I've got this thing and it's fucking golden!

by SoulEater7 on Oct 28, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Ben was taking away Ben's minutes...

by diedaily23 on Oct 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ben was taking away Derrick's minutes

by diedaily23 on Oct 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ben and Derrick were almost always playing together in the 4th because the brain cramp where Vinny was benching Derrick. No one was taking anyone’s minutes.

by C Smoove on Oct 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Overwhelmed?

We all know the team isn’t a title contender in 2009-10. No controversy there.

I don’t see what is hard to comprehend about coaches not playing rookies at the end of games. It’s a common problem in the NBA to both develop talent and win games. You also have to protect the player’s confidence and keep the veterans engaged with wins. Coaches usually side with playing vets and GMs want the players they drafted to develop. Vets typically ply at the end of games. That’s the norm.

And the Rose 4th Q question is a red herring. You’re omitting something.

VDN reacted to the interviewer laughing and then offering him coaching advice. It wasn’t a question. The interviewer explicitly said he was giving VDN advice and it was done at the end of the segment and the hosts know it was an interviewer ending trick to play. VDN didn’t walk away.

A radio host was snickering and offering his guest advice on how to coach the team.
I don’t listen to those shows or like shock jocks.

by Noe_Valley on Oct 28, 2009 11:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah, and he reacted poorly.

and I ‘comprehend’ why VDN didn’t play Rose, I just don’t agree with it. Can you comprehend that Rose isn’t a normal rookie, and our vets aren’t great shakes?

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 28, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

as long as you aren't offering coaching advice!

by diedaily23 on Oct 28, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I swear, is there anything more lazy

than classifying our team last season as ‘led by a rookie point guard’. If it weren’t for our precious veteran point guard the season before, maybe the Bulls aren’t in the lottery in the first place with the ability to draft that darned rookie.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 28, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who used the 'led by a rookie point guard' defense?

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 28, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's been used

as the ‘considering’ in the phrase ’VDN’s done a good job, considering…’

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 28, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

well that’s just horse shit. VDN made a lot of mistakes last year that had nothing to do with who his starting PG was.

"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak

by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 28, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Veteran PGs

The Bulls jumped ahead of Miami in the lottery and picked Rose #1. Miami at #2 was lead by veteran PGD Dwayne Wade.

So if Kirk’s the suck then so is Wade who was on the worse team – right? Or maybe not. NBA consensus is Kirk’s a good PG and a team player.

And which NBA rookie PG were you thinking had more responsibility (and success) than VDN gave D. Rose?

2 x MVP Steve Nash, Utah’s D. Williams, Arenas and Monta Ellis, guys I followed, didn’t do as well as Rose or see as much responsibility in their first year. Which coaches and rookie PG’s set the standard VDN didn’t live up to coaching Rose? or is the comparison unfair since Rose better than Nash and can’t be compared to a 2x MVP?

I have a hard time calibrating the criticism.

by Noe_Valley on Oct 28, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A couple of things

- DWade didn’t play point guard

- the criticism is that Rose didn’t play at the end of games when – 1) he is the future of the franchise and 2) he is the Bulls most best point guard. You can make an argument that Rose didn’t deserve to play at the end because at times Hinrich was better, but yfbb would argue that it doesn’t matter how good Hinrich is – he is never going to take you as far as Rose will once Rose gets experience. So give him the experience. Obviously VDN wants to squeeze out as many wins to get a job, so there is tension, but as a fan the future of the franchise outweighs VDN’s job security

- I doubt you watched those guys rookie years very closely. If you did, you would note Steve Nash didn’t play as a rookie because he was on a team with Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson. Arenas was a 2nd round pick but was playing the end of games by the 2nd half of the season. Monta Ellis plays the 2 guard. So out of all your examples, the only legit comparison you made is D. Williams. Of course D. Williams was playing for Sloan and not VDN, so excuse people for having more faith in Sloan.

- VDN made a lot of mistakes last year. This was one of the least of them, which he (or management) quickly corrected. But at the time, the criticism was real and on point.

by Basketball Smurf on Oct 28, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

And Rose was the number one pick. Unlike other PGs like Nash who was picked 15th.

We knew from day one that if the team goes anywhere it will be with Rose as our best (or in the least second beset) player. That thought at the time, at least here, was to win or lose with Rose on the floor and to see who could play well with Rose. It was pretty embarrassing to see us lose that game where Thabo came off cold from the bench to throw that ill advised inbound pass and Rose was on the bench.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Oct 28, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vinny and Deng are on the same page. That's something to celebrate, right?

Now someone should tell Rose he is a big loser too. Wonder how he’ll take that news?

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Oct 28, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

I’d be annoyed if they both claimed they were gunning for a title.

And it doesn’t matter if they talk like losers, only if they lose games.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 28, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he shouldn’t be scolded for what he said, literally, but he handled the situation poorly.

It is a pattern from VDN, unfortunately.

And even if you agree with what VDN said and disagree that he’s handling it poorly, this all started because he benched his young star who wasn’t even playing poorly in the 4th quarter, a mistake we can all agree was a real mistake (Hell, even management saw this as a mistake).

Generally speaking, the first pick and eventually ROY should almost always play in the 4th quarter. I see no exception for last year’s Bulls team, it’s not like our best player or even our best two players played the same position as Rose.

by RyPac13 on Oct 28, 2009 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

this

So let’s play some games already.

the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS

by marionette on Oct 28, 2009 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Del Negro also seems to be arguing

that hyper-criticism over who is playing in the fourth quarter of a game is misguided when there is no real possibility of a championship. That might be the case, it also might be the opposite of the case.

by Super-Structure on Oct 28, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs