Tyrus Thomas ...... a 20/10 man?
IF and this is a BIG IF.... IF Tyrus Thomas can pull it off then the Bulls will be a very, very dangerous team.
It has been reported on Bulls Confidential that K. C. Johnson implied that Tyrus Thomas goal is to be a 20/10 Man this year and I will repeat....IF Tyrus can pull this off then this team will be a very, very dangerous opponent to play against and a nightmare in the playoffs.
Doug seems to think that Tyrus is naive or is drinking a lot of Kool Aid. I say he should strive to do it. He has the gifts to do it.
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112 comments
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That's great for Tyrus.
In other news, my goal is to be a millionaire by age 24. I’m 23, right now.
They have about the same odds of happening.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 15, 2009 11:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe in you fundamentallysound
i believe in you, Tyrus and the Easter Bunny. Of course, my goal is to continue to believe delusional fantasies. Lets just see how this plays out.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 15, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
For Tyrus to jump to even 16 ppg and 10 rpg
he would need to (1) stay on the court for 36 minutes a game (at least), (2) increase his scoring rate about 2 points per 36 minutes – no small feat, at all and (3) bring his rebounding rates to what they were his rookie year, when he was a very good rebounder.
So yeah, I’m not really counting on the 20 ppg part, as it would require Tyrus to get 8.5 more minutes per game (or more) than he got last year, and a huge ~6 pts/36 mins jump in his scoring rate. He’d have to take and make loads more shots, and if he’s taking that many shots, it’s probably a bad thing for the Bulls, unless he’s gotten loads more efficient scoring (which would require his jumper to be significantly better and his finishing inside to be much, much better).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 16, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, BG isn't around anymore
Tyrus has been working on his strength and offense. The ball is gonna be spread around more with Kirk playing more, and Tyrus confidence is up. If, Tyrus is moved a little closer to the rim offensively, he will get 16 a game at least, 20 probably wont happen because Vinny and the org, really dont want Tyrus and they don’t need shinin’ like that! And if Tyrus winning game one of the playoffs and taking a nose dive in minutes hasn’t shown you guys that, I doubt anything will!
by Mr Rhythm on Oct 16, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus is gonna be a problem for the league
and Bulls management this year, even if he’s close to those numbers!
by Mr Rhythm on Oct 16, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a nice problem for them to have
And I’ll bet they pay him if he can match those.
by 72-10 on Oct 16, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the biggest hurdle will be playing time and usage rate.
I think Thomas could easily score 16 ppg if the Bulls were focused on it. I’m not saying it would be all too efficient, but…
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cut to the cup fundamentallysound, cut to the cup damnit!
I need to borrow some of your millions.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Oct 16, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a distinct absence of millions. In fact, due to law school, my net worth is pretty
significantly negative. So becoming a millionaire in a year, would be even more difficult than it would for someone with no debt.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 16, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That reminds me of a Louis CK bit
“I have negative money in my account. That means I don’t have ‘no money’. I have less than that. If something is free, I can’t afford it, because I don’t have zero.”
by YaoPau on Oct 16, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, and because I'm a risk averse Nervous Nelly the significant debt I've racked up
is a big burden to shoulder, especially given the complete bloodbath that is the legal job market this year — particularly bad for me as I’m a second year student looking for a summer associate position. I made top 10% in my class, and usually, I’d already have a couple of offers lined up, but this year, it’s just not the case. I really wish that I had gone to grad school for a Master’s in Economics instead. I still might not have a job, but I would have only accrued one year of graduate school debt rather than the 3 I’ll be facing after this.
So yeah, Blog a Bull is a good place to come for me to get away from worrying about all that. Then, of course, I’m reminded of Reinsdouche’s hoarding and ridiculous profit margins and I get really pissed about my position of having less than 0 money.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 16, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it makes you feel any better...
I could have bought a house twice the size of the one I did if I didn’t have grad school debt. Of course then I wouldn’t be allowed to teach at the university level… And as a result not qualified for any mortage… Damned if you, damned if you don’t.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 16, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm about to go through the same thing!
Well, not for law school. …
Yay debt!!!!!!
Oh well, it’s worth it I guess?
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Oct 17, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably won't end up being worth it, in all honesty.
I’m going to be working 60 to 80 hour weeks just to pay off my debt and have some savings from the next few years, and that’s if I have the privilege to work for a big law firm in a place like NYC.
If I had had a better idea of just how many hours lawyers worked prior to coming to law school, I probably would have never done it. I have way too many other interests to be stuck in an office for that many hours a week. But, this is what I’ve gotten myself into, so I just have to make the best out of it. And hey, maybe I’ll really enjoy the work and it won’t be so awful, but I doubt it. Almost everyone who has any interests outside of the law (aka just about everyone) hates being a lawyer.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 17, 2009 2:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah ...
that’s the problem with law. Heck, otherwise I might do it, I kind of want to be a philosophy major.
I know that for my major [CS] I’ll be doing that … at least while I’m in school. Hopefully there’s a bit more time outside of it. Hoooopefully. …
Good luck with that, though. Yeah, lawyers get a lot of money, but … it’s always seemed pretty hellish, looking from the outside in.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Oct 18, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and with the economy tanking, the $ might not even be there.
So… yeah.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 18, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll prescribe some Zoloft in 4-5 years
Just remember me when I get pulled over for a kilo of blow.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 18, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol :-)
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
by exult463 on Oct 15, 2009 11:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No 20/10 but he's got a good shot to put up a ridiculous statline
Something like 15 points, 8 boards, 2 assists, 2.5 blocks, 1.5 steals I think is reasonable with starter’s minutes. And at just 23, he’ll be a very rich man.
by YaoPau on Oct 16, 2009 12:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
YaoPau, go to the APBRmetrics board. I resurrected the thread about your EOPM
and had some suggestions about improving it, and also, about creating a similar EDPM.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 16, 2009 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your numbers YaoPau, but only if he is given consistent minutes and is not
once again, jacked around for every mistake he makes which causes Vinny to use a quicker hook on him than he does on some other occasional stumblers in the Bulls stable. Hopefully, the competition from the less talented but maximum effort giving rookie, the great Taj, will spur the much more gifted Tyrus to stay focused longer and play with the same enthusiasm as his counterpart. If he has matured enough, both physically and mentally, those numbers seem within his reach, in spite of the roadblocks set by our sometimes woefully inadequate coaching staff.
I truly believe that Tyrus has taken a step forward attitude wise based on my unscientific observation of his reactions while sitting on the bench during this preseason. Whether sincere or not, he has been cheering on his teamates (including the 2 rookies) where in the past, he remained passive or indifferent many times when he was not directly involved in the action, spending more times admiring his manicure than on the game.
Keep in mind, all you doubting Thomases out there, the small town boy from the bayou just turned 23 (a year younger than Taj) and although lacking a PHD in basketball smarts, TT is well aware that he will be playing for a potentially big contract this year, regardless of where he finally lands which can be a significant motivator in itself.
I’m hoping this high flying eagle will nest right here in Chicago for years to come while getting fed some tasty morsels in the form of alley oops from the Bulls awesome tandem of Chicago natives, Derrick Rose and Dwane Wade starting in 2010 just as Noah is hitting his prime. With Tyrus’s quantam leap as an all around PF, the need for a Chris Bosch type player will no longer be an issue, so D Wade will welcome the opportunity to share the spotlight with an emerging but unselfish superstar like the loveable, humble Rose.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Oct 16, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrusmancrush, you know I dig Tyrus
However I’m almost 99 percent sure Tyrus is gone! It was apparent the way Vinny used hm in the playoffs. Look at what BG did last year and the organisation didn’t even offer him a deal to return. The same mixed reactions people had about BG, they now have about Tyrus, I wonder why? The organisation will let Tyrus play hoping he doesn’t succeed, so that his not being resigned will be easier on them. The problem is Tyrus is only 23, coming off of a year where he grew as a player and is only gonna get better, especially when he gets a coach! So I do expect great things from him but the reality is the coach and organisation do not have Tyrus in there future goals. I also believe Tyrus will get close to 16 points a agame at least, and Vinny will no doubt try to limit Tyrus minutes so they can play the forwards of the future Taj and JJ!
by Mr Rhythm on Oct 16, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how one can look at how the Org. handled Gordon
and think they’re going to give Tyrus a long-term deal.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy, they could choose
not to sign any free agents and give Miller’s money to Tyrus… I’m not saying that’s what they should do… just that they could do it and stay under the cap.
by 72-10 on Oct 16, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not far enough for a MAX free agent
Hinrich: 9.0
Deng: 11.3
Noah: 3.1
Rose: 5.5
Johnson: 1.7
Gibson: 1.1
Rookie hold: 1.2
Roster hold: 2.5
=35.2
projected cap = ~52 (or less)
juuuuuust enough for a max superstar
signing anyone else on that roster takes away that chance. If Thomas is worthy of an $8-10 million contract, I don’t see him being not being offered at least one contract by July 8th, meaning the Bulls will have to know they have no chance at a max FA by July 15th for them to be able to re-sign Thomas.
The dynamics and games and wll be interesting to see play out. Especially for the proooccessssssss-loving Bulls.
supporting info:
Teams may negotiate with free agents beginning July 1, but they have to wait until the moratorium ends before signing a contract. The dates for the July Moratorium are as follows:
2010-11 July 1, 2010 through July 7, 2010 July 8, 2010
When another team wants to sign a restricted free agent, it signs the player to an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given seven days to match.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couple of questions
1. If the Bulls trade away their first round pick do they lose the rookie hold?
2. If the Bulls (miraculously) manage to sign a max free agent right away without renouncing Thomas, they would be able to match any offers to him and simply go over the cap, correct?
by jpm356 on Oct 16, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
answers (to the best of my knowledge)
1.) yes, if they trade the pick away for a future pick or “cash considerations”, but they’ll have another “roster spot” hold, which is about 1/2 million for each unsigned spot under 12 players (someone with the exact details?) so they’d only gain about $0.6 million in space
2.) no, they will offer Thomas the qualifying offer before the end of the season. He’ll take it to keep his Bird Rights. He’ll then have a cap hold of $15.6 (added ON TO the $35.2 million the Bulls will already have committed) until
____A) the Bulls sign him to a contract at which point his “hold” is what his salary will be… in addition to the $35.2 already.
____B) he signs an offer sheet with another team and the Bulls don’t match within 7 days, in which case, he is on the other team,
____C) the Bulls renounce all rights (only likely if a big name free agent signing is imminent) meaning he’s a unrestricted free agent, and the only way the Bulls can re-sign him is like any other team… his salary keeps them under the cap, which would be highly unlikely if they don’t shed more salary like Deng or Hinrich or
____D) in which he signs the 1-year, qualifying offer at $6.2 million and that becomes his “hold”
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alright, so the chances of us losing out on both the max and Tyrus are slim
We’d only renounce his rights if we’re sure we can sign a max player. So we’re starting next season with either Rose/Noah/Deng/Tyrus/midlevelFA or Rose/Noah/Deng/MAX. I’m okay with that.
by YaoPau on Oct 16, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm only ok with the latter.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have o idea what percentage I'd out out that they lose both.
Tyrus Thomas could sign an offer sheet on July 8th. The Bulls would have to match that by July 15th. For subject to be true (losing the max and Thomas to be slim), A) Thomas doesn’t get a decent offer sheet for weeks, until the FA things pans out B) The Bulls are table to tell, after two weeks of free agency, that no MAX will come to them, allowing them to sign Thomas’s offer sheet by July 15th.
Of course, the think you’re forgetting is that some team might be willing to overpay Thomas by $2 million and scare off the Bulls from matching., regardless of everything else. YAY! Two years in a row, the Bulls don’t overpay for good young talent… but they lose that talent.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 18, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the chances that a team
with the money to overpay Thomas by 2 million, is not also going to look at the other free agents. A team with that kind of money under the cap isn’t going to zero in on Thomas to the exclusion of all the other free agents.
The only way this scenario happens if if Thomas plays so well this year that he becomes one of the elite free agents (although restricted). If that happens, doesn’t it make the Bulls decision to keep him easy?
With Thomas playing that well, the Bulls would have also had team success, and would probably be willing to build around Rose, Deng, Thomas, and Noah.
by runningman on Oct 19, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think Thomas will be worth?
I’d guess between $8-$10 million. How do you not fathom that a team can have $10-$12 million in cap space but not $16-$18 million? I’m missing something…
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 19, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are more than just max free agents available
There’s a whole host of Tier 2 free agents available. What i’m saying is that a team that has 10-12 million available isn’t going to zero in on Thomas to the exclusion of all the other players it could afford, and overpay him.
It’s stupid. They don’t have to hurry because the Bulls will not be acting swiftly. By putting an offer in to Tyrus, they’re also prevented from negotiating with anyone else while the Bulls consider matching. You don’t put yourself into that situation for last year’s Tyrus.
Like I said, this only makes sense if Tyrus is clearly one of the elite free agents. In that case, the Bulls will match anyway.
by runningman on Oct 19, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
But how did you get the hold of $15.6 million? I found this on the website you linked above:
A restricted free agent counts against his team’s salary cap by the greatest of:
* His free agent amount (as defined in the table above)
* The amount of his qualifying offer (see question number 36)
* The first year salary from any offer sheet the player signs with another team (see question number 36)
and by my calculations his free agent amount (300% X ~4.74) is only $14.23. Am I doing something wrong? Not that it’s really important I guess since either way his hold basically kills our cap space.
by jpm356 on Oct 16, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just grabbed it from draftexpress.com
They could have been wrong.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 18, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
off topic a little but...
what would happen cap wise if old man hunter retired during the season? Could he do that then take a postion as an assistant so that money would be cleared, as far as the cap goes? Not that its a difference maker, but well I dont know its just somthing I was wondering about
by TruEChiFaN... on Oct 17, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure about this
But I think we just keep on paying him, like they did with Chris Webber (IIRC).
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Oct 18, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's off the cap for this summer anyway
it’s only a one-year deal.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 19, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, re-read your post, understand what you're saying now.
I don’t see any possible way they forgo even a chance at a MAX FA to re-sign Thomas. But you’re right, it’s technically possible. But it always has been.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not even the money
it’s Tyrus isn’t the ‘kiss the ring’ type player that the Chairman gives big money to…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as in, even if they whiff on 2010
they let Tyrus sit around all offseason and get him to take the QO in the name of flexibility.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wouldn't be surprised...
you’re right.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the most likely scenario
that we whiff and give Tyrus the QO.
Not to be a negative, but based on history I think you’re probably right…. which was why I brought up the point that we man not go after a free agent, in which case we simply give Tyrus the QO.
That kind of strategy would jell with:
Step1: Cut Payroll Step2: Profit! Step3: There’s supposed to be another step?
by 72-10 on Oct 16, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't se it hapening.
There are enough teams out there that will off Thomas something officially.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 18, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One player of note...
Signs the qualifying offer rather signing the long term contract offered by the team, and suddenly its a organizational philosophy?
Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?
by Dionysus2.0 on Oct 16, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Jordan a "kiss the ring" type player?
by 72-10 on Oct 16, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he was a "Best of all-time who filled the seats and made untold millions" player
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 16, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just being a smartass
Plus that was a different time.
by 72-10 on Oct 16, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they have any intention of keeping Tyrus around, you'll see Hinrich moved at the deadline
for an expiring contract or two. If they don’t plan on keeping Tyrus around, Hinrich stays.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 16, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur. Mostly.
Or Deng. The conventional wisdom is that Deng is young, hurt and untradeable. If he becomes good enough to where he could be traded, then he should be kept to rebuild with Rose. Howeve, this organization is cheap and maybe they like Hinrich’s diminishing and shorter contract.
If they see Thomas as deserving of a contract, I could see them trading Deng for an expiring contract, keeping Hinrich, offering Thomas, then going after max guy like Wade or Bosh or even Joe Johnson and trying to fit either Thomas (if they get a PF) into SF or Joe Johnson, or putting an MLE guy at SF (or James Johson) and having Hinrich in the same role this year. Not likely, but I could see it.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we sign someone else next year, what does that mean for Tyrus?
I assume he’ll get a hefty offer from another team. We can match that and trade him immediately to that team for compensation, right? Or do we have to make Tyrus an unrestricted FA before signing anyone else?
by YaoPau on Oct 16, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'd have to rescind their rights to Tyrus
to clear his cap hold and make enough cap room to sign a FA. That means Tyrus would be an unrestricted FA and that the Bulls couldn’t go over the cap to sign him either.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Oct 16, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus
Then I want to trade Kirk now. I’d rather keep our average 23 year old for 6 more years than our average 29 year year old for 2. The 23-year old could be cheaper, too.
by YaoPau on Oct 16, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you disagree...
…but this is why I’ve wanted to sign Gordon all along. If Thomas even improves a little bit, he’ll sign an offer sheet, meaning the Bulls will likely have to let him go. If they whiff on a 2010 MAX guy, they’ll be a team w/o Gordon, very probably without Thomas and maybe/maybe not w/o Brad Miller*.
If they would have re-signed Gordon, they’d be over the cap, and could have extended Thomas and re-signed Miller without regards to the MAX player. If they whiff in that scenario, they’re still a maturing, young team, with lots of assets. Not as much as outright flexibility, but then when has that ever kept a good team from getting great?
On the other hand, if they get a MAX guy, they’d likely include Thomas, Gordon and a draft pick, so if they get their guy, the end, long-term result won’t be too different. (except the player they sign will give up about $25-$40 million in guaranteed money) I happen to think that at this price, with four years left, Gordon would still be very tradeable a year from now.
*If The Bulls sign a MAX guy, they’ll have to renounce Miller’s right and it will literally be impossible for them to re-sign him, meaning he might have to turn down offers to stay with the Bulls… and then not be able to re-sign with them anyway. I have no idea what Miller would want to do
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and not to put words in your mouth...
….but my disagree, I mean, w/ the last part, that Gordon will at least be tradeable at his current contract.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's entirely possible
that the Bulls work out a sign/trade for that max player instead, that clears up a lot of the cap nonsense. It’s how the Raptors were able to keep building after signing Hedo, they managed to trade for him instead of renouncing everyone and signing him outright. The Bulls have proven to be pretty crafty with such stuff.
And actually, if it was Wade or Bosh, I wouldn’t care if the team was a skeleton crew, they at least have a title window with 2 stars, even if they’re thin in 2010-11.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I guess that's the other part I hadn't thought of...
Trade Deng + Hinrich + Draft picks for Wade, then sign Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudamire outright. If they have to give up Noah instead of Deng, do that… start Rose, Wade, Deng, Bosh, Asik and hope for the best.
I guess that’s possilibity.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 18, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone has a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, my friend.
by C Smoove on Oct 19, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're saying...
…if Dwyane Wade has decided that he’s leaving Miami, you’re telling me they wouldn’t take back Deng and/or Noah and/or Hinrich and/or draft picks instead of getting nothing?
You’re sure I’m delusional?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 19, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, they could always call Wade's bluff
and say okay, see you later, guess you didn’t want this extra pile of money we’re able to offer you. I’m not saying this is a smart strategy (because it risks Gordoning Wade for nothing), but it’s one they could pursue.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Oct 20, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
“Gordoning”
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 20, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
There are only three scenarios I can see Thomas staying on this team, and only one is positive, and it’s ridiculously unlikely.
A) He (and Noah and Rose) busts out and they say screw all the max guys, we’re going with Thomas, Noah, Rose, et al. They offer him enough money to stay and hope for the best. That would be sweet. What is the likelihood?
B) They realize they aren’t going to get a MAX guy quickly and match any offer sheets Thomas signs by July 15th, or negotiate with him directly.
C) As yfBB said/implied, Thomas is mediocre and no one really offers him a contract he wants (like Gordon), Bulls whiff on big guys and then “settle” for Thomas
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dead on
And I get your points earlier about Gordon signing. It would have been the safer route….
One thing, despite the team’s difficulties cap wise, most other teams face similar if not more challenging cap situations. It’ll be really interesting to see how this all pans out. I’d love for point A to come true…. do you have any odds for each scenario based on what you’ve seen of preseason?
I know it’s tough to call at this point given how little we’ve seen of Rose and Tyrus thus far.
by 72-10 on Oct 16, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be surprised if Tyrus actually gets any offers by July 15
With so many unrestricted free agents next off season, teams aren’t going to want to waste their time on negotiating with restricted free agents with the chance of losing them to their original teams. Even if any team out there did negotiate with a RFA, I’d think it’d be more likely LMA or Gay gets spoken to first.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Oct 16, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't LMA just about signed?
I don’t disagree. I think it’s tough to know exactly what will happen because it is a unique situation. Maybe one team loves him and has a need for a young PF and has just $11 million in cap space. I have no idea if that’s true…
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 18, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I assume he’ll get a hefty offer from another team. "
A handful of teams will have cap room (maybe less due to the cap shrinking), and there are a lot of unrestricted FAs who need to be signed before teams turn to Tyrus. Teams will go for the UFAs first.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In theory, which is what this mostly is....
However, it only takes one team with a specific need a cap room to offer him
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 18, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true, but if they have that same need
wouldn’t they just go for Boozer or Amare first?
I suppose a smart team in a small market will see Tyrus as a value buy.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 19, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is under the assuption that...
….Carlos Boozer or Amare Stoudamire would laugh off any team that had $12 million in cap space and offered them the full amount.
If you’re the Thunder, and after cap holds and extensions, are you going to offer the max contract to Boozer or Stoudamire and have them come in expecting to run the team, or would you offer Tyrus Thomas $9-$10 million? This is under the “I like potential too much category”, but a team that started Westbrook, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Tyrus Thomas and lucked into Cole Aldrich would have an average starting age of just over 22 a year from now, and would be… just loaded with potential.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 19, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced that OKC isn't just pulling the wool over
everyone (and namely Bill Simmons’) eyes by just fielding the cheapest team possible while one of their owners sells his prized wine collection for cash.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 19, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
possibly.
I couldn’t even figure out their cap space at a glance. They could have like $15 million committed or $40 million committed. Who knows?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 19, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love your writing.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I was going to say
If the Bulls get that from him AND Noah, they’d still be a very dangerous team.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 16, 2009 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus will not be a 20 10 man in NBA
Maybe in the CBA or in Italy. He will be about a ten seven guy for his career
Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year
by angryandy on Oct 16, 2009 8:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When he started last year he got 12/7,
so he’s already better than that.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Oct 19, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm... cause for concern?
“First, I have to figure out my role as far as the offensive end,” Thomas said. “I have to figure out where I’m going to get my shots. But on the defensive end, definitely 10 (rebounds a game).”
he doesn’t yet know what his offensive role is? I understand not knowing the intricacies of knowing where to be, what pass to make, etc., but shouldn’t someone have at least sat him down and said, “Here is what your role is going to be in the offense this season…” ?!?!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 8:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah, that worried me too.
though more from Tyrus’ standpoint. He shouldn’t have to figure out where he’s going to get his shots. Dive to basket more, shoot when wide open.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh, I look at things with an (at least ) admitted bias at times.
If Deng, the Duke Blue Devil from Mike Kzcheyzyxevksi’s motion-offense couldn’t figure out where to go for half a year, I suppose I don’t expect Tyrus Thomas to quite get it yet either.
Del Negro’s offense has seemed to be good for three types of players: guys who can create one-on-one (Rose, Gordon, Salmons), guys who “scrap” for opportunities (Noah) and good spot-up shooters (Hinrich and Miller (and Taj?)). The two two guys they’ve asked to do other things, Thomas and Deng (and James Johnson?) haven’t fared as well. That could be strictly a personnel thing, but I wonder how even someone like Rip Hamilton would function in this offense.
But yeah.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure, but Tyrus could scrap for more opportunities
oh who am I kidding, Taj is going to be starting by 12/15.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's more that
He needs to learn when he should take his shots and not so over force shots when the offense doesn’t call for it…..
That’s probably what he’s trying to say judging from the 3 previous years of “why are you shooting now moments” from Tyrus.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Oct 16, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE LAST YEAR!
The man does not have a role in the offense. Tyrus Thomas isn’t been taught offensively and he has no role! Now if he’s put in a offense where he’s told “do this, play here, cut there, do this do that”, that’s different than being thrown on the floor and playing a streetball type pass and kick out to BG offense, or give the rock to Derrick and let him penetrate!
by Mr Rhythm on Oct 16, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for anyone telling Thomas to quit taking jump shots, screw you.
“Tyrus needs to get the flow back offensively and defensively, pick his spots,” coach Vinny Del Negro said. "Be our shot blocker back there. Run the court. Make open 15-footers.
No matter what one thinks of the coach, the guy is telling him to take the shots. What would you rather he do? Defy the coach?! Awesome.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
when he went 1-11
or whatever against boston early in the season last year, vinny said he did not have a problem with his shot selection that night.
i don’t think he should quit taking them, but he shouldn’t be looking for it for his first option which he often seems to do. but if he’s open, i have no problem with him shooting it most of the time.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Oct 16, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2-17
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Oct 16, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this is why Noah's taken a couple 15 footers this preseason...
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 16, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noah's a taller Ray Allen!!!
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Oct 16, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with a prettier shot!
i'm hot for teacher
by DLRoth on Oct 16, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not have a problem with him shooting these open jumpers at all.
Last year we saw his progression in that shot. He had his off games, but overall I usually didn’t mind him taking that shot. If he worked hard enough on it, why not? I think this year that will be a major part of his success. Yes optimistic.
by i_like_turtles on Oct 16, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, of course.
I feel I believe like most “level-headed” people: in today’s NBA, a PF must be able to make 15-footers. This is especially true for Del Negro’s offense where he has the PF set a pick and spot up. Sure, he needs to drive to the rim, but the opposition will pack it in around the hoop if he can’t make a reasonable number of outside shots.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With D.Rose and Tyrus running a pick and roll
These guys would flourish, Derrick is more athletic than almost every pg, Tyrus is more athletic than most Power Forwards, but Tyrus can knock down a set jumper too, and he can make nice passes off the dribble to the big man in the post if the defense comes on him. That’s how these guys should be used. Noah should be under the rim preparing for a rebound or to get a dime dropped on him from a penetrating player i.e Rose!
by Mr Rhythm on Oct 16, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur.
This is why I dislike Vinny Del Negro and his offensive system. It is not intended to maximize the entire roster of already young, talented players. it so happens to do so for a number of the guys, but not all or most of them.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Oct 16, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McGraw
says the ‘20 points’ part of Tyrus answer didn’t really happen.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 16, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus…20/10
Two words: WISHFUL THINKING
Tyrus needs to set realistic goals like 14 and 9 first. He is not Elton Brand. He will never reach 20/10. At best he will top out at 17/10….and that’s best case scenario.
by C Smoove on Oct 16, 2009 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well Tyrus has all the tools to be that kind of player
He has a good form on his jump shot. He’s one of the premier athletes in a premier athletic league which can allow him rebounds.
He seems quick….
But until he knows the game more it’s hard to say.
Either way if we get a 15-7-2/3 showing and get a 11-13-2/3 showing from Noah we’ll be a LOT tougher than we think with or without Luol….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Oct 16, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even see him getting 10 rebounds a game. I want to see worry about getting his board first and then worrying about his offense. He needs to shoot for a vintage Marion statline…16 pts…8reb…2blks…1 steal…2 assists
by C Smoove on Oct 16, 2009 12:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marion is a SF who could play the 4
Tyrus is a raw 4 who isn’t skilled enough to be a 3
by Mr Rhythm on Oct 16, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marion isn’t that great of a ballhandler or shooter. He learned to shoot the 3 decently but he is not a true SF in my opinion…not a good enough perimeter shooter. In fact Tyrus’s form is wayyyy better than Marion’s shot so in a few years, they could be comparable from outside.
by C Smoove on Oct 17, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The consensus seems to conclude that our coaching staff is somewhat clueless
when it comes to maximizing the talents of our bigs. Does our new “big man” coach bring anything to the table? Also a large contingent of our tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists have concluded management doesn’t want Tyrus to succeed, in which case the Bulls will be stuck in the tar pits of mediocrity while being forced to root for the gritty Gibson instead of the talened man-child. If this is in fact, their agenda, than it really sucks big-time.
With this mindset on the part of management, 2010 could become a barren bust and Jerry’s profit comes first dictum will lead the Bulls back to the wilderness, especially after a disgruntled Rose jumps ship at his first opportunity. Please tell me I’m just paranoid and Gar and company want only the best for the franchise.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Oct 16, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
his goal should be to not get traded in 2010
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
by Yibs on Oct 16, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't his goal be to get traded in 2010?
Then maybe he can play for a team capable of helping him utilize and develop his considerable talents.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Oct 16, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Memphis baby!
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Oct 16, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
god a team of
iverson, zach randolph, and mayo… who will win the fight for who shoots first? poor rudy..
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
by Yibs on Oct 17, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus Thomas...
a 22/13/2 man in 25 minutes?
by penguin1 on Oct 17, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus off the bench
like he was last night isn’t going to get 20/10.
VND you moron! Play him and if he fails then fine bench his ass. But at least give him the opportunity!!!
(mumbles and walks away cursing stupid coaches.)
by 72-10 on Oct 20, 2009 7:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
VND?
Is that Vinny Nel Degro?
Just busting yer balls :)
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 21, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think TT had enough flashes and solid games to deserve a starting role
to start the season until he proves one more time that he is not going to be even close to that guy. If he starts making mistakes and is not putting up quality numbers then yank him I have no problem. Please do not start Taj fucking Gibson though. This is the same guy that everyone was pissed that we drafted 26 including myself. I don’t care how well he has played in pre-season. It is pre-season.
by i_like_turtles on Oct 21, 2009 7:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
who would of ever that that this post would get 100 comments
congradulations to Tyrus Thomas. I would be happy if he was a 10 seven man.
Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year
by angryandy on Oct 24, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He already is at 10/7. I think he will make 14/8 this year. if he really balls out 16/9…but I doubt that.
by C Smoove on Oct 25, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
tyrus had 6.4 rebs and 10.8 pts in 27.5 min last year,
so andy can stay angry!
(but i can’t wait ‘til tyrus’ play forces his name change to “happyandy” this year.)
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
by marionette on Oct 26, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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