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Around SBN: The Amateur Mathematics Of Linsanity

Deng not 100%

Doug nails it in reacting to the news that Luol Deng sat out of a practice this week. While nothing to get that nervous about, Deng is, by definition, not 100%. But that said, I'm all for precaution in training camp and preseason. It's just another reminder how tenuous predictive success is for this team...a lot of things have to go right.

And a bonus link for you: By the Horns did an interesting study on not just Derrick Rose's assists last season, but what types of shots he assisted and their associated successes. The bad news is that Derrick Rose isn't creating a lot of easy opportunities for his team. The good news (I guess) is that it's likely not his fault, but the lack of finishing big men.

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I actually listened to all of those interviews you posted

the other day, and I distinctly remember Vinny saying he’d rest Luol, Pargo, and even Salmons some since they are coming back from injury.

If he participated the next day, it seems more likely that this was prescribed rest, rather than rest dictated by being too sore. Stress fractures are caused by overtraining, so it makes sense that they’d monitor him and make sure he progressively increases his workload.

by runningman on Oct 1, 2009 4:44 PM CDT reply actions  

I want luol to get back to hitting that midrange jumper of his

sitting in a chair about 15 feet out and shooting yours js while sitting actually helps improve your midrange shooting (since when you jump or are actually standing u use less of your arm muscles but hopefully continue using the same release on your shots as if you were sitting…) hinrich and deng should both be doing stuff like that so they dont get too injured by can improve their shooting touch…from both of them im expecting peak performance in terms of shooting…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Oct 1, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Derrick Rose's

assists make sense to me. The lack of inside finishers makes it hard to get those high % assists. Most of the time was to Noah, Tyrus, Gray, Nocioni, and Gooden. Sad when Tyrus is probably the best of the bunch. He didn’t even have Luol for half the year.

In addition, Rose’s lob passes noticeably improved as the year went on. I saw few of those in the early going, but after the all star break, it happened a lot more often. I think he did/does have to learn how to find the passing lanes when a shotblocker rotates to him.

I’m more optimistic about those numbers than anything. It shows there’s definitely room for improvement.

by runningman on Oct 1, 2009 4:57 PM CDT reply actions  

Steve Nash's inside assist numbers

went waaay down the year Amare went out. PGs pass the ball to scorers, not to spots on the floor.

by YaoPau on Oct 1, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Steve Nash passes to players that finish at the rim

we have those if they just go to it.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, yes

But when talking about Nash and assists my presumption is the reference is to Nash with the Suns.

Assist percentage is a better measurement anyway.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 2, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Basketball writers aren't smart.

The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.

by Ozzie Montana on Oct 2, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Surprised YFBB didn’t angrily jump in here to defend his trade.

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Oct 3, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't particularly think og yfbb as a "basketball writer"

And I mean that in a highly complimentary sense, since I don’t think much of most of them.

In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!

by wjb1492 on Oct 3, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have said this about Rose's playmaking and assists

I have compared him to Hinrich and I said that Kirk was at the moment better, even when you compare there rookie seasons Kirk’s was better (at assists and setting up others to score). This isn’t a knock on Rose but it’s definitely something he has to work on. He just doesnt set players up to score well. Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, D. Williams, Baron Davis, these are all pure point guards. Rose is more athletic, but he doesnt have that precision passing dime dropping ability yet. I’d even go so far to say he didn’t have it in college.

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 1, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

And he is playing Vinny-ball.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Oct 1, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

baron davis is a stretch..

hes definitely good as hell, but far from a pure point

by yetti on Oct 2, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

For Rose to be considered a great point guard

He HAS to improve his playmaking ability. Magic, Jason Kidd, Stockton, Isaiah, Tiny, Mark Jackson, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, Baron Davis, these are elite point guards. Chris Paul is coming up, Derron Williams is too, Rose isn’t like them because as of yet he Does not control the flow, get players easy buckets, direct traffic. Right now Rose’s game is predicated on calling the plays, and attacking the rim. This along with defense are the two areas he has to improve on to get to the next level.

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 2, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chris Paul is coming up?

He’s as elite as they come.

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 2, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Elite for today's PG's but not in the context of the greatest of all time

That’s why I said he’s coming up, he’s gotta do this for his career, not have 2 or 3 great seasons!

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 3, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yet Baron Davis is elite?

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 4, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Baron Davis has played at a high level for about 10 years now

what dont you get about this. You want to compare one guy to someone who’s been to more all star games than this one has had regular seasons? Are you serious! Can you honestly put Chris Paul on a level with Magic Johnson right now…..o.k so he’s not an elite yet!

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 5, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are you gonna compare Chris Paul to Magic Johnson?

Magic dominated since he was a rookie, Magic has been an Olympian, a all star, a NBA champion how many times,a MVP. Magic did it his whole career. Chris Paul had a few really good seasons, you do the math!

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 5, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're not making a lick of sense

If you are talking about all time greats then yes Chris Paul has to have more years like this. But then you throw Baron Davis in. He’s a good player but he’s not as good as Chris Paul. Chris Paul is an elite player in the league right now. So what don’t you get about that?

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 5, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

My position is clear

Chris Paul is better now, but Davis is a ten year vet who’s had knee problems since college and other serious ailments. A healthy Baron in his prime is better than Paul in my opinion. Baron was too big, too strong, too athletic, with too nice a handle, post game and jump shot for Paul. Baron is one of the all time great point guards, had he ever had a great team he may have one a few championships. Baron has played at a high level for 10 years, Chris only did it 4 years so we cant compare them yet.

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 6, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

"A healthy Baron in his prime is better than Paul.."

You just lost all credibility there. The highest PER Baron Davis has ever produced (not that PER is the begin all / end all of stats, but it’s a good starting point) in a season is 21. The lowest PER Chris Paul has ever produced is 22. Last year he had a PER of 30. The guy is as good a point guard as the NBA has seen. Davis has never averaged 20 and 10 in a season. Paul has already done it twice. Baron Davis is not in Chris Paul’s league.

by Basketball Smurf on Oct 6, 2009 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome, so now you're just making shit up

Baron Davis’ best seasons don’t even begin to compare what Chris Paul has done in his first 4 years. Davis’ 10 year career has just been a series of “What-ifs” because he’s never been in shape or healthy enough.

The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.

by Ozzie Montana on Oct 6, 2009 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Baron Davis is more of a scoring PG than a "pure" PG. Pure PG is such a nebulous

thing anyway, but if Derrick can become like Baron Davis minus the injuries and weight issues, then I think he’ll be one of the top two or three PGs in the league, which would, obviously, be huge for the Bulls.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Oct 2, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Baron Davis is a Pure PG who can do more.

I’m stuck in the Bayarea since 91 and when Baron Davis played for the GSW he was a Point Guard who can score. He’s also strong and smart enough to get to the basket and easy points.

The guy’s capable of being lazy and shooting a low 3pt %. He’s selfish at times and out of shape often but the man’s a PG and can dish the ball to guys like GSW C Bierdins.

by Noe_Valley on Oct 2, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Baron Davis isn’t a pure point. He definitely much more of a scorer. A pure point think pass first, Baron doesn’t. That’s not a question of skill but just the reality of the matter

by C Smoove on Oct 2, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I honestly.....cannot believe you are debating if Baron Davis is a pure point

Iverson isn’t a pure point guard, Steve Francis wasn’t a pure point guard! Monta Ellis isn’t a pure point guard. Baron Davis is as pure as they come. There just so happen to be point guards who can score, like Nick Van Exel, Sam Cassell, Stephon Marbury, Baron Davis!

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 4, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

so where does winning come into the formulation?

because all these guys may fit your definition of “pure point guard” (which incidentally, seems to include every point guard in the NBA) but there “pureness” certainly doesn’t translate to wins.

by Basketball Smurf on Oct 5, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

In the back of an SUV with an intern.

Starbury was a pure point guard who could score

"Then you need a center so if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard he can reach up and knock it loose instead of having to spend 15 minutes trying to hit it with a broom stick." – Sam Smith

by Granny Waiters on Oct 5, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nick Van Exel a pure point? Seriously? First off, he was a 3pt chucker.Marbury and Davis look to score first then pass. A pure point looks to pass first then score.

by C Smoove on Oct 4, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

One point in Rose's favor

is that he vision and passing developed over the season. In the Boston series, for instance, he was making no-look passes, wrap-arounds, etc. Unfortunately, his TOs went up as well.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 2, 2009 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rajon Rondo is a good defender.

He averaged two steals a game, too, creating, I’d guess, at least an extra turnover a game for Derrick, if not more.

I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]

by Prevenge on Oct 2, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

[Good is understating.]

I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]

by Prevenge on Oct 2, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed.

I’d actually not mind if Rose’s TOs went up this year – if it’s the result of him being more assertive and talking more chances. You can’t make spectacular plays without screwing up sometimes.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 2, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go to youtube look at highlights of these point guards and then look at D.Rose

 For D. Rose you will not see many assists, just dunks, layups, pull ups jumpers and a few blocks.You dont even see the crafty ball handle skills like you’ll find with Baron, or CP3, or Isaiah.These are the point guard skills I mentioned that have to be added into his arsenal!

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 2, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Derrick's ballhandling skills are among the best in the game. I don't know

what you’re watching with respect to that. However, he does need to do a better job of finding guys for easy looks. Lobs, bounce passes through traffic, wrap-arounds in the lane. Those are the type of things the Bulls need more of from him.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Oct 2, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like the Bulls by the Horns post

but I want to see the raw numbers. He notes that Nash had the most assists close to the rim, but he fails to note that Nash played with Shaq and Amar’e. Two guys who are excellent finishers at the rim and who prefer to do most of their damage on the interior.

Don’t get me wrong. I think Rose has to improve his interior passing. But we don’t have a player who is a particularly strong finisher for his position at any place on the court. Compare what we do to a team like Philly who plays Iggy at the 2, Young at the 3 and Brand at the 4 – strong finishers at every position. The Bulls lack of finishers is as big a problem as Rose’s supposed lack of court vision.

by Basketball Smurf on Oct 1, 2009 5:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Smurf great players make others better

 A point guard with great passing ability will get others easy scoring chances.

by Mr Rhythm on Oct 1, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cute saying, but what does it mean?

A great player cannot turn Tyrus into Amare, or Noah into Shaq. They can only enhance abilities that are already there.

It flows both ways. A great inside player will increase the PG’s number of inside assists.

by runningman on Oct 1, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

It's about three things

First, brains. Then timing. Finally the bond players develop with eachother like a two cop squad car.

I saw Noah start to make this progress with Rose in the Celtics series. Tyrus still doesn’t have it.

Both players have to know where they have to position themselves when Rose takes his man and their man with him on the dribble penetration.

Expect Rose to be highly vocal early if Noah and Thomas fail to position themselves properly.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is the type of empty analysis that we've come to expect from you

I’ll quote myself “don’t get me wrong. I think Rose has to improve his interior passing”.

But the fact that the Bulls lack finishers in every position doesn’t make it easy.

by Basketball Smurf on Oct 1, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

that was overly harsh

but your reply wasn’t really on point. I’ll just say I agree with runningman

by Basketball Smurf on Oct 1, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Im "Deng" sick of this!!!

Man this is crazy to me, why doesn’t Deng retire if he does not want to ball or if he thinks his shin splints are career ending?

The Dude Abides

by Savage23 on Oct 1, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions  

What are you babbling about?

The coaches sit Deng for 1 out 9 practices, as they planned, and your babbling about shin splints and Deng wanting to retire?

by runningman on Oct 1, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

runningman

what are you babling about? He has been on and off questionable injuries for a long time now. Don’t pretend like you don’t know what I am talking about. He is soft and must prove he can contribute since he is highly paid or get his a$$ out of town. PERIOD

The Dude Abides

by Savage23 on Oct 5, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Deng is soft and will miss 30 games this season

If a trade comes along dump treat it like cash for clunkers. Assume the debt to get out from your current liability that will be worse.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't buy that he's soft . . .

The problem is that you can only play through a stress fracture for so long. He tried to play through it last February, so it’s not a question of toughness. The problem was that he was limping around and hurting the team by being so ineffective.

But yeah, if this is even an issue now, then it’s definitely going to be a big problem once the season starts. Playing four games in five nights doesn’t exactly help a stress fracture heal.

by Big D on Oct 2, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right

Soft is wrong. That’s what a bottle of Maudite will do to you after 10PM.

I just don’t think his body recovers very well. He’s not soft though.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 2, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or he pushes himself too hard.

He pushed himself too hard, played hurt and stayed hurt.

by Noe_Valley on Oct 2, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Although i dont agree with your position (yet)

I do think if something is offered for deng that helps us stay a bit competetive and land something in 2010 would be great. Im thinking along the lines of Tmac…deng for tmac…and if when tmac gets injured we can just have salmons play the 3, suffer hinrich at the 2 (he’d only play the 2 on defense, on offense both hinrich and rose can switch positions off whenever it suits the team) and then have enough money to sign some big star at some position. I mean we could get dwade and KEEP tyrus thomas, or do some sign and trade stuff with kirk and tyrus, sign bosh and (due to the sign and trade) have enough money to sign joe johnson or rip hamilton, or maybe ray-ray? MAN!!!! Lets get deng outta here

-btw im posting this at 1 in the morning after studying for 2 hours for a calc test i have to take at 11 am…..im a little bat shit crazy right now…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Oct 2, 2009 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Rockets have Ariza, why would they want Deng and his salary?

by C Smoove on Oct 2, 2009 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure many will get angry at any knock on Rose

But this is at least a realistic criticism of him, as opposed to the billion “He’s not hungry enough” comments we saw last season.

His passing never looked amazing, though I guess that’s partly our fault for expecting either too much flash, or just too much from him in general. He definitely felt more comfortable with certain players as the season went on. Playing with someone like Deng should improve those numbers, too bad that he seemingly goes maybe 1 week without having an injury-related article about him.

The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.

by Ozzie Montana on Oct 1, 2009 5:21 PM CDT reply actions  

His passing rating and "pure point guard rating" (Hollinger) in college wasn't amazing either, so no surprise there

Developing that takes some time, especially if it’s not coming natural. He will still be a great point guard next season and beyond.

"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard

by Norsktroll on Oct 1, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

An assist inside doesnt have to be a no-look bullet pass

A pass to Dwight Howard in the post where he immediately turns and baby hooks it into he hoop is an assist. And the PG didn’t have to do anything special.

Take Rafer Alston. Alongside Yao this year he 110 inside assists vs. 79 2pt jumper assists, a 1.4 to 1 ratio. Alongside Dwight Howard he had 69 inside assists vs. 28 2pt jumper assists, a 2.4 to 1 ratio. It’s not like Rafer improved dramatically midseason at dumping the ball inside. He just played with a center whose game was more paint-based.

by YaoPau on Oct 1, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

It has to come from finesse

Rose is unlike any point guard the NBA has ever seen. He has the explosive power to do things most guards cannot do. Can you name one other NBA point guard that can perform tip dunks off rebounds?

Our guys have to adjust to the sets Rose will create. If they can’t follow him then trade them for players that can. We’ll need athletic freaks with brains. Tyrus has the athletic gifts. It’s questionable if he has the brains to keep up.

Derrick Rose is going to be an all-star this season. If you read any rumblings early about Rose being upset with his teammates you can be sure that BJ Armstrong is putting out the good word for his client.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Derrick Rose is very very good...

And MAYBE one day we can truly say “Rose is unlike any point guard the NBA has ever seen.” But as usual your hyperbole knows no limits.

Come on “Can you name one other NBA point guard that can perform tip dunks off rebounds?” I would guess that just about EVERY NBA player can tip dunk off a rebound. That’s the easiest way to do it. Not to take ANYTHING away from Rose’s crazy athleticism, but to point to his ability to dunk an uncontested rebound? Spud Webb did it for christ sake. Isiah Thomas too. In fact Chris Paul does it with some regularity without the benefit of surprise…

Watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDjzvJYWtoc&feature=related

Derrick Rose is very very good. This year he might get even better. That should be enough for now.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 2, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

And I realize that Chis Paul dunk isn't off a rebound...

But IMO it’s much more difficult.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 2, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

The thing with the tip dunk

is that you need to get up even higher, so that you can take the ball from the carom and stuff it in the hoop.

I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]

by Prevenge on Oct 2, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

But you don't have to bring the ball up with you...

And usually it’s from the blind side uncontested.

6 of 1, half dozen of the other.

All of that is beside the point though. Rose can jump. Really freakin’ high for a guy his size in fact. So can lot’s of PG’s. NBAO probably should recognize that before basically claiming that no other PG in the NBA can tip dunk either.

If we have to listen to a full season of “Oh, my God! Rose is the greatest PG ever!” I’m pretty certain we’ll all rip our hair out. Just trying to nip it in the bud.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 2, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope...

And don’t even get it twisted. The point was exactly what I wrote. NBAO is jumping the gun by saying Rose is unlike any PG in NBA history, and to use his ability to tip dunk as proof of anything is just plain uninformed. LOT’S OF PG’S CAN TIP DUNK, and players far smaller have been able to do it as well. Every player on my high school basketball team could do it in fact.

Sure he is very very good right now, maybe even the most athletic PG in the NBA (who knows really?) but he has lots of room for improvement. Enough with the hyperbole already.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 2, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know

I did write about Derrick’s explosive power but feel free to harp on the example to make your points.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 2, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you would have said he's the most explosive PG in NBA history...

I would have demolished that point too.

I guess your hyperbole does have limits after all, but feel free to defend your ridiculous theory on tip dunking PG’s.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 2, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

PG Baron Davis posterized AK47 with a nasty dunk in the NBA playoffs.

PG’s can dunk and dunk well. Even Spud web could dunk.
Rose is special but not unique.

by Noe_Valley on Oct 2, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Baron was the first example to come to my mind too

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

KJ was ridiculous...

People forget about him too much. For shame.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 3, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh that was my favorite player

I definitely remember that

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 3, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 3, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is scary news

If he’s not 100% a few days into training camp, he sure as hell isn’t going to be 100% in January or February. Stress fractures do not simply go away. I think we’ve got to be thrilled if we get 60 games out of him this year.

by Big D on Oct 1, 2009 5:25 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd be thrilled with 30

and then a trade. But if we have him all year then 60 sounds like a good ceiling.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Deng has said in interviews this

week that he is still sore. Hopefully it’s something he can play through.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Oct 1, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Doubtful

This is his leg. It’s like asking a writer to work through a thumb injury. Deng has no ghostwriter option.

If he feels pain now he’s not going to be pain free until January assuming he plays no games at all until then.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's normal for a player who didn’t play a lot of months to miss some practices

Especially when you know that in the pre-season the players work harder than during the off-season. However, I don’t understand why Deng didn’t have that surgery. IMO, it’s a lot worse for a team to play a injury player now and then – when he feels better -, instead of missing a player for some months and after that time get him again completely healed and in good shape. I’m starting to feel that Deng will have a another year like last year… I hope I’m wrong

by bull83 on Oct 1, 2009 5:59 PM CDT reply actions  

A lot of misinformation about stress fractures in this thread

Surgery is almost never recommended for stress fractures. They recommend plenty of rest, like Deng got.

Here: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20031015/1527.html

Please go down to “TABLE 2 Treatment Recommendations for Stress Fracture”

I don’t know exactly which bone had the fracture but surgery is rarely needed for every type of stress fracture and done only if long term rest doesn’t help.

Where does the assumption come from that surgery would help, or that anyone recommended it to Deng? If the bone is cracked, but still in place, what is surgery going to do to help?

by runningman on Oct 1, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is recommended for an acute stress fracture after conservative treatment doesn't show results.

And conservative treatment is a few months rest. So either Deng has an acute fracture which would explain why he was out so long and is still suffering, or he had a high school type shin splint and is a complete wuss. No one would have surgery for a shin splint. They would consider it for an acute stress fracture that isn’t back to normal in a few months. Really, this isn’t that hard unless you believe Deng had a high school type injury and was just sitting out because he is comfortably under contract.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Oct 1, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm no doctor. I just pointed that because I read about that possibility last season

Here, take a look

1

Luol Deng is weighing up whether to have surgery on a persistent leg injury in the hope of being fit for Great Britain’s European Championship campaign

The Times

2

Deng, who has missed 12 straight games with a stress fracture in his right tibia, said he planned to increase his workouts to gauge how his leg reacts. More importantly, Deng said he’s leaning toward ruling out surgery.

Chicago Tribune

3

“I believe that I’m not going to have to have surgery,” Deng said. “I think I’ll be back playing very soon, hopefully. I think my recovery is going well. I’m feeling a lot better. Sometime this week, I’ll probably start running. I haven’t done that in almost a month.”

Daily Herald

by bull83 on Oct 1, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

BAB Play Doctor of the Year goes to: bull83

You’re really on par with the Bulls team doctor and his merry band of disciples despite the fact that public reports showed him to be rather foolish in his diagnosis.

It’s probobably KC’s fault. And McGraw. And Notre Dame booster boy.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right

They wrote about that possibility and that’s why I assumed that the surgery could be better to Deng… I don’t know shit about medicine and I’m too lazy to search something about that subject

by bull83 on Oct 2, 2009 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Rose's assists in close should improve

mainly because Noah will be getting a lot more time this year and he’s a pretty good finisher. I have a friend who wanted Beasley and hates on Rose every chance he gets. I tried to explain that Rose’s assists numbers were not extremely high was not because he wasn’t passing, but the fact that his teammates were missing open shots when he passed it. As they mentioned, some of this is on VDN with his primitive offensive schemes but, all in all, Rose has a lot of room to improve as a floor leader.

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 1, 2009 6:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Danny Manning I mean Loul Deng is just injury prone.

Doug argued with me that they were freak injuries but an injury is an injury. Mike Brown comes to mind. My favorite Bear could never stay healthy. Im just really disappointed with management that the two players I always felt should be dealt but can’t because of the amount of money they get paid for such little production, Deng and Hinrich are still here.

What angers me the most is that the only season Deng played all 82 games was a contract year. I just really don’t like Deng’s basketball makeup and I’ve never liked Duke players in the NBA. They all seem to bust and just aren’t very durable.

I've got this thing and it's fucking golden!

by SoulEater7 on Oct 1, 2009 7:00 PM CDT reply actions  

I've never liked players

from North Dakota. They just don’t seem to have good shooting strokes.

by runningman on Oct 1, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you saying that Army guys like Coach K and Bobby Knight have some sort of formula for success?

Hoosiers and Dukies are like young Hollywood starlets. Fours in the big time and then the offers dry up.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Oct 1, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Deng thinks he's only around 85

In this video you also can see Deng, Noah and Vinny talking about the trip to London

by bull83 on Oct 2, 2009 6:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Is there any way to see Rose’s 1st half vs 2nd half assist % numbers?

I would imagine if there is a big improvement over the 2nd half we can expect something starting at that point for the first half of this season, rather than looking at his overall numbers.

by RyPac13 on Oct 2, 2009 12:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Remember he hit that one stretch late in the season though...

Where everyone was saying he wasn’t attacking the rim anymore? Rookie wall or whatever.

I wouldn’t be too surprised if the increase is only gradual from 1st half to 2nd.

The playoffs however are another story, he was EN FUEGO!

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Oct 2, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I look forward to the end of the paxson deng era in chicago for good and forever!

but that’s just my opinion…
He reminds me in so many ways of a poorman’s injuried Tracy McGrady. Take note: not Tracy McGrady but an injuried Tracy McGrady.

In attitude especially, but a poor man’s version.

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Oct 2, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions  

*injured

I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]

by Prevenge on Oct 2, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

McGrady who doesn't workout in the summer is like Deng? WTF?

Come on dude. McGrady’s lazy and doesn’t work off season. His injuries are due to a lack of conditioning.

Deng works out hard in the offseason – probably too hard. He maximizes his limited talent whereas McGrady leans on his god given abilities to get by.

As for attitude? really? Must have been the easy life he lead as a pampered BB protege growing up in war raved Sudan.

by Noe_Valley on Oct 2, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

McGrady doesn't workout in the offseason?

Where do you get that from? In fact McGrady has been working out with Tim Grover in Chicago all summer and mentioned that he was so loyal to his previous trainer that he wouldn’t try Grover sooner, despite being recommended by Luther Head. Also, he went from beanpole skinny to put on a decent amount of weight and muscle. Not to mention, the guy improved to the point of being a top 5 player at one point. You can’t do that without working out in the offseason and being lazy. Here’s an article about his “lazy” summer of not working out.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/columns/blog?name=friedell&post=4479907

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 3, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Two HUGE problems w/ the study.

First, why raw totals? Derrick Rose was 3rd in total minutes played by a PG. He should have a lot of high totals. Convert the numbers and ranks to “per36” (or per whatever), and you’ll have a better grasp of his Rose’s abilities.

Second, I hope the “stop taking jumpers Tyrus Thomas!” comment was totally tongue-in-cheek.* If not, it exhibits a misunderstanding, or actually, complete non-understanding, or even worse, a non-attempt at thinking, about the way assists are handed out… on a number of different levels… which would be funny considering that’s what the study is about.

*and no, not because of Thomas, I could hate Thomas and still have this criticism.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Oct 2, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions  

at 6.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 2, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thread when it starts?

seems late :p

thanks though for the site, loving it!

DA CUBS DA BEARS DA BULLS

by Rudey on Oct 2, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

me2

super stoked

DA CUBS DA BEARS DA BULLS

by Rudey on Oct 2, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Deng looked decent tonight, and his production was good.

Now we just need him to stay healthy.

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Oct 2, 2009 9:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Luol Deng is a soft bum, he'll never live up to expectations.

Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.

In Vinny We Trust!

by DRose#1 on Oct 2, 2009 10:33 PM CDT reply actions  

If Deng is, by definition, not 100% because he sat out of practice...

Then what does that make Miller, Hinrich and Pargo, who sat out of a game?

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Oct 3, 2009 8:55 AM CDT reply actions  

injured :-P

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Oct 3, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't know that anyone other than Gray (and now Tyrus)

Were injured.

Why isn't your friendly Bulls Blogger friendly?

by Dionysus2.0 on Oct 3, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't know Miller or Pargo were

until last night and Matt posted a few days ago that Kirk had a hammy problem. At the time it sounded like he would only miss a practice or two. Since it was only a preseason game they decided to not push it. I hope Tyrus will be ok.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Oct 3, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you see what happened to him?

I didn’t catch that play.

"I'm in the Hall already, on the wall already, I'm a work of art I'm a Warhol already"-Jay Z

by bigballa10 on Oct 3, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tyrus?

He took a charge and I’m not sure if he hit his head on the floor when he fell backwards or if he hit his head on the other player. He stayed in and as they went down the floor it looked like he stopped and jumped up and down. I thought he hurt his foot/ankle at first but maybe his head just hurt too much. There was a time out and when the time out was over Tyrus and the trainer left for the locker room.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Oct 3, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, i thought it was a concussion?

i missed the game, but that’s what i had heard after.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Oct 4, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes it was

a concussion. Neil announced it later in the game and said he would not be back that night. Hope he’s doing ok.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Oct 4, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

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