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When Hinrich returns ...who should start with D. Rose???

It will be very interesting to see who VDN selects as his starter 2 guard when Hinrich returns. Will it be Gordon? BG has had a great year and despite our concerns on defense, he has been playing very well there too. Personally, I believe he should start and Hinrich should come off the bench. BG has a connection with Rose right now and they are one of the highest scoring backcourts in the league. Hinrich is not a shooter. I do not see him as a starting shooting guard on any team in the NBA. The defensive problem is not in the back court but the front court. They allow too many points on the inside. Hopefully VDN will do the right thing and stick with BG. What are your thoughts?????

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If what VDN was doing just before Kirk got injured is any indication,

then he will start Rose with Gordon, and Kirk will be first guard off the bench. Don’t know why that would change, especially when Hinrich just returns from a long-lasting injury.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jan 9, 2009 7:53 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just read a Sun-Times article where they said....

….the Bulls will likely start Hinrich alongside Rose. If that happens then it’s a travesty!! Ben Gordon is not all-star, but what has he done to warrant being brought off the bench YET AGAIN??? The only acceptable reason for Hinrich starting, in my mind, would be if it’s to showcase him and raise his trade value. If the Bulls truly think that Hinrich is a better option alongside Rose than Gordon then I’m done with this years Bulls…and if Hinrich starts and doesn’t get traded then we can likely forget about seeing Gordon in Bulls uniform past this season…and who could blame him for not wanting to come back after that?

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 9, 2009 8:34 AM CST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

i may not agree with all your thoughts on deng

but this i wholeheartedly agree with. even though i don’t love bg he’s deserved the starting spot and benching him would be absolutely ridiculous.

by Jaina on Jan 9, 2009 8:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I defend Gordon so adamently because for the last 4 years...

…this guy has been blamed mercilessly for whatever problems the Bulls have had. If problems exist, send Gordon to the bench. That’s been the philosophy of the Bulls. But let me pose a question to you all. Every player has their ups and downs, but who has been the most consistent performer for the Bulls over the last 4 years? I would argue that it has unquestionably been Gordon. Again, Ben is no all-star, but he is a guy you can win with. He is a legitimate 20+ ppg guy who is no lock down defender but far better than most give him credit for. And offensively, he is a guy who teams gameplan against…perhaps the first guy we’ve had since Jordan that teams have had to do this for (When we had Brand we were terrible and weren’t taken very seriously at all). Come contract time, is there anyone who blame him for wanting to get a better deal than Hinrich (5 yr/50 mil) got?

In the end, I’d hate to lose Gordon and then have to hear or read about us Bulls fans complaining because we don’t have one guy on the roster capable of putting up 20 ppg. Much the same way that many Bulls fans that complained about Tyson Chandler would be thrilled to have him anchor the defense now (despite his sub-par season to this point).

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 9, 2009 9:05 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   2 recs

Agree

Though I do think Ben Gordon should get some all star considerations….he’s no superstar, but he’s definately all star credible.

by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 9:11 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you and Dionysus 2.0 need a blog-comment throwdown.

Civillay, of course. :)

(I agree w/ you about Gordon, though.)

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Jan 9, 2009 1:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What?

I said Gordon should start…

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 9, 2009 4:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ben's "dog" is a German Shepard to Kirk's poodle.

If Ben is benched for Kirk, I hope he comes back with another team next year and burns Kirk for 40 points.

by Granny Waiters on Jan 9, 2009 10:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The defense problem

Is both in the front and the backcourt. The backcourt’s defense has been pretty awful (letting too many guys get in the lane) but oddly Gordon’s been playing avg starting SG defense…..which has been a real surprise given his still solid/consistent production on Offense.

Hinrich’s a better defender though, but I agree, keep BG on the starting line, he’s too damn explosive and beats his man in matchups more often than Kirk will.

Rose has to improve his defense….

I think having a stopper inside will help quite a bit though make up for the only avg to overall slightly below avg guard d.

Hinrich will help a bit too, but I like him as the lone backup for both BG and Rose. WHile Kirk’s not a real SG, he is a combo guard, he can hit the jump shots, and he can pass, and will do well enough to man the SG spot when he’s giving BG a breather, and might be a nice bonus in the 4th with his typically solid D.

by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 9:10 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh

on any other team in the league , we’re not even having this discussion…it’s obvious that Ben should be the guy. But since this team has been so badly mis-handled and badly coached, this is actually a credible question. Only in Chicago….

There’s no doubt in my mind that JR, Pax, Vinny will somehow work Kirk back into the starting lineup sometime after the allstar break. The team has somewhat of a tough stretch right before the break, which they’ll most likely lose the majority of. That will give them enough of an excuse to say “we wanted to try something new to jumpstart the guys blah blah blah”…yuck

http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/

by NormVanBeer on Jan 9, 2009 9:18 AM CST reply reply actions actions   2 recs

absolutely

it’s only a topic of discussion because our franchise has Vinny and Reinsdorf’s crush wall

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 12:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I never have been able to understand all the Hinrich love.

I mean he is a decent player and good enough to start somewhere in the NBA, but beyond that, meh.

by Granny Waiters on Jan 9, 2009 10:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Need to showcase Ben for a trade

If the bulls are going to shed contracts for 2010 then Ben is going to have to be a key element in the trade. I believe he has a no trade clause (or something like it) because of the tender offer he signed.

by chlutz508 on Jan 9, 2009 10:11 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He doesn't have a no trade clause

He can turn down any trade, because any trade Gordon is in will also encompass the loss of his Bird Rights (similar to why Devean George wasn’t able to be traded by Dallas last season).

If this doesn’t clarify it for you, this should.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:38 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why???

Do you advocate getting rid of Gordon? If one of the 6’3" guards has to go, I say let it be Kirk. Keep Ben on the wing…then come the 2009-2010 season it will be time to think long and hard about what to do with Deng. If Deng is looking like the guy who decimated the Miami Heat in the 2006 playoff series, then he stays around. If he continues looking like what he’s been looking like lately, then I make him one of the pieces of a trade to a team like Toronto (if it looks like they’re going to lose Bosh for nothing then they may be willing to take Deng, and some other players).

Now I’m not advocating getting rid of Deng now. But if he comes back from this injury and keeps up this sub-par play and, or if he is only marginally better next season then I try this move.

Maybe

Deng/Thomas or Noah/Nocioni

for

Bosh/Kapono

This is ONLY if Toronto is losing big next season and it’s looking like Bosh won’t stick around. Otherwise, Toronto would NEVER do this deal. But if things get bad, then out of desperation they just might bite. Plus, Deng and Nocioni in particular are the type of players Colangelo likes and maybe the thinking would be that a change of scenery would the thing to jump start Deng.

Bottom line is that of all the 2010 targets out there (REALISTIC targets), I like Bosh the best…and I see nothing but big time growth from him. He’d be a beast for us!!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 9, 2009 1:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we had any chance to get Chris Bosh

I would make that trade now and yesterday…

by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 1:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gordon should remain the starter.

Hinrich is more valuable coming off the bench because of his versatility. Depending on what is happening on the floor, Hinrich can either spell BG or Rose.

I don’t actually think the starting spot is the big issue here…the bigger issue is how Vinny distributes the minutes. I don’t actually care who is starting. What I don’t want to see is Hinrich, Gordon and Rose on the court together, with Deng and whoever…though, with Vinny’s love of small ball, I would not be at all surprised.

This could ugly, and fast.

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 9, 2009 10:16 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

I don’t care if Hinrich, Hunter or even Thabo starts with Rose. But I do care how much minutes they play and when they get those minutes. In crunch time, Rose and BG should always play together. Period. Theres no question there.

We talk a lot of Gray starting and not Noah, but he doesn’t play when the game is on the line. I don’t see the point of him starting, but it doesn’t matter. I do agree, though, that Hinrich didn’t do anything to deserve the starting spot in front of BG. I don’t have the numbers – this should be a great opportunity to the stats guy show up -, but I have the impression that BG is defending a lot better compared with other years.

by bull83 on Jan 9, 2009 12:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kirk Hinrich has done nothing since October to provide any value to this team

Yet somehow he would start? That’s just incredibly ludicrous, especially since Ben has never been better on offense. Kirk is the 6th man, he can the first one off the bench for Ben or Rose. Let’s see him play with some intensity on defense, maybe it becomes contagious.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 9, 2009 11:30 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey now

The Bulls are a .500 team with Hinrich and a sub .500 team without him this season.

The bad news about that .500 record is that Hughes missed all those games.

Also, in Kirk’s one start we blew out the Suns at the UC. BG was 8-13 off the bench.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jan 9, 2009 3:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Personally, I don't care who starts as long as the Bulls win games.

However, here are my thoughts if the Bulls were to decide to put Kirk in the starting lineup at some point over Gordon.

1) It’s not like BG won’t get 30+ MPG still.

2) Gordon coming off the bench could possibly give him extended minutes against a lesser player, which affects the game flow in a variety of ways.

3) His “suspect” defense will most likely be against a lesser scorer more often, which conversely if Hinrich truly is the better defender allows Hinrich to cover the better scorer in the game more often

4) His offense may be even better because he could have an easier matchup at times against subs. It may even allow Gordon to go in his patent 1 vs 1 mode because the other guards will have already spent a lot of energy in earlier minutes and which ever of them is still on the court can play off the ball on more possessions

Having said all that, if you are talking about PGs and SGs, Ben Gordon is a WAY better offensive SG than Kirk Hinrich. Kirk may have slightly better D, but it doesn’t give the Bulls enough to start him at a SG position over BG (IMO). However, there are offenses that can be schemed that would allow two PGs to flourish on the court at the same time. A long while back I read up on the DDM offense that Memphis runs, and I think that offense was an example of that! I don’t have links now, so I could just be remembering incorrectly.

My whole point is, I just want to win. Who ever starts, the game plan better be utilizing the players’ and team’s strengths!

by Mattchoo on Jan 9, 2009 12:40 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Counterarguments...

1) He will get 32-36 minutes max
2) The old strategy of “let the other team get the lead cause our best offensive player is not starting” certainly affects the gameflow, just not in a positive way.
3) Allowing the better scorer to not have to worry about guarding Ben allows him to concentrate on offense.
4) Ben has shown time and again that he can score on anyone. Why not give Kirk the easier matchup?

by JeffD on Jan 9, 2009 12:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

#2 hits the nail on the head

and it has everything to do with points 3 and 4 also.

START THE GUY WHO IS PLAYING THE BEST!! and even though gordon pisses me off a lot, he deserves to start!

by Jaina on Jan 9, 2009 1:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

#2

Was always my issue.

Ben’s a great 6th man, we get it….but we don’t have a Duncan like player to get us easy buckets early.

And Ben is proving himself a worthy starter in this league, even though he’s an even better instant offense 6th man, and it’s not just that he plays against lesser guards (since Gordon historically did hte best in the 4th against the other team’s best players).

The nice thing about BG as a 6th man is that he’s so freaking skilled offensively that he changes the whole dynamic of the game, and causes some major D changes/strategies from our opponents when he comes in off the bench…..that’s what I like about it….

But considering we have a crappy starting core on Offense without him, without the easy buckets guy or the Pau Gasol I was hoping we’d get and am STILL pissed about, Ben NEEDS to start. He’s still all star credible in either role in my eyes, but is just a shade more effecive off the bench because of what he can force in game planning….

by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 1:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Please, somebody...ANYBODY, tell me who besides Kobe, D-Wade and Brandon Roy...

…is capable of playing lock down defense and giving you 20+ ppg a game? Joe Johnson plays a reasonable amout of defense as well. But besides the forementioned guys, there isn’t a shooting guard who is THAT MUCH better than Gordon defensively. The 4 guys I’ve named are perennial all-stars (because they play both ends probably), but outside of those guys you won’t find many more capable of great defense.

So people, let’s stop beating Gordon over the head about his defense. He is an average defender. Far from great, but far from being as bad as people perceive. He’s not quite the defender Kirk is, but what Kirk gives you defensively Gordon gives you offensively….and vice versa.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 9, 2009 1:29 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Joe Johnson

Can play that kind of defense, but doesn’t often…..focuses a lot on offense….

But you hit the nail on the head.

And Gordon’s not the bad defender (worst defender in the league) crap that Skiles would have had us believe…..and he’s proving that every game. He can be an avg defender and still be a solid offensive contributor.

by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 1:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thabo can get 8ppg

and hold his opponent to -12 points

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 1:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If that were true,

I wouldn’t mind…as long as he could hold the great players to 12. :)

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Jan 9, 2009 2:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I posted this elsewhere

http://www.blogabull.com/2009/1/8/715010/if-you-get-traded-obvious#11276480

rotation should not be on who is the better player, but on putting the players (and thus the team) in situations where they can be used to the fullest. Hinrichs biggest problem is his confidence…early foul trouble, or quick misses, and he questions and limits himself. For that reason he shouldnt start.

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jan 9, 2009 2:26 PM CST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I agree the confidence thing

Hinrich can get into the lane for layups almost at will when he tries….problem is those shots ALWAYS rim out, ALWAYS, and it makes no sense.

I thought that would be overwith by year 2 or 3, but it’s still present….I don’t get it.

ANd Hinrich too defers WAY too often when the others have nothing going. He can be pretty good in this league….but rarely plays like he knows it.

by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 2:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I seriously doubt

Kirk will start when he comes back. He started the first game of the season and got hurt in the second half. We don’t know how many more games if any he would have started had he not gotten hurt. There were several preseason games in which he didn’t start and he handled that fine. I know several on here don’t like him but he is a team player and I don’t see him having a problem with coming off the bench.

by sue369 on Jan 9, 2009 2:54 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he played 6 games.

the first several hughes started.

by Jaina on Jan 9, 2009 3:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

er thabo

hughes was preseason.

by Jaina on Jan 9, 2009 3:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, and then it was just that thabo was so bad

that he got the nod. but it’s true that he did get injured in the only game that he started. which led to ben getting the opportunity to start. sad that he was 4th choice.

by Jaina on Jan 9, 2009 3:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gordon starts

Hinrich is the first guard off the bench. It’s going to take him time to get back to playing shape. I don’t think he should start at all this season unless we have injuries to Rose or Gordon.

Our backcourt PER is pretty damn awesome with Rose and Gordon starting. Why change that?

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jan 9, 2009 3:43 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The whole reason Gordon was coming off the bench

last year was they were trying to copy the spurs. And they started that this year. I highly doubt that Michael Finley would be seen as a better player than Genobli by any Spurs fan. Or anyone for that matter

by HisAirness on Jan 9, 2009 5:34 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

they started the Gordon thing before Manu

Before last year, it was Skiles trying to shake things up because Gordon started off the year slowly. Last year, B*^#$ did it as his first coaching move because he’s a total fucking idiot.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Jan 9, 2009 6:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   2 recs

lol

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jan 11, 2009 2:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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