A brief Chicago Sacramento trade idea
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 7:56 AM CST
75 comments
First, I am a Kings fan. Second, I am not crazy. I don't expect the Bulls to give up Tyrus Thomas. Third, I realize Jerry Reinsdorf is a piece of shit, and won't pay luxury tax. Fourth, I realize there are several players that you all would like to get rid of, and fifth, Andres Nocioni is a piece of crap the Kings do not need. (That would also include being the final straw as a fan. Fuck that shit.) Finally, and I say this knowing some of the response coming from StR on this particular topic, is that they will not like this trade. I do not care, and while I'm not necessarily thrilled with the prospect of Hughes running his mouth about the time, and the prospects it has on a toxic locker room, I want to see the Kings shake things up. It starts with their veterans.
We're all aware of Matt's wanting Brad Miller. Done, and no problem there. But, that also means the Bulls must take Beno Udrih back. However, this means the Kings take Kirk Hinrich away from the Bulls. Drew Gooden, Kenny Thomas, and that magical Larry Hughes I know you all love so much, would also be included. Here's the trade machine, and a link to DX's salary info for the Bulls, as well as the Kings.
Salaries outgoing for the Kings are: 25,522,500
Salaries outgoing for the Bulls are: 29,978,859
Now, to be honest, my main worry was that doing the deal would make the Bulls a tax paying team. The good news is that it does not. Which means I can actually add a player to this deal, and I have several in mind. Mainly, Shelden Williams or Quincy Douby, and while I'd rather give up Douby, and keep Williams, either is acceptable. You all can discuss that as well. (I prefer Shelden because he's a big body, and I can hate him because he's married to Candace Parker, and may have a future Michael Jordan on his hands too. I hope the kids are twins, and both dominate basketball. And, too, I hope to say they were both born in Sactown. But whatever.) The good news by adding this extra player (hopefully Douby), is that the Bulls do have an open roster spot yes? So, that means they would be able to get a deal done that way. The Kings won't pay the tax, if they do the deal, because they are taking most of Shareef Abdur Rahim's salary off the books (although it hasn't been reported they've filed the paperwork with the league--and I wonder exactly how much salary would be taken off--but whatever) due to his medical retirement. Although the only hitch here, as far as I can see, is that the Kings (barely under the tax line like the Bulls are) with taking on the extra salary to do this deal would barely hike over the tax to make it. I think that's a deal killer. (Or maybe a Shelden Williams in Sactown killer.)
Either way, that's my idea.
Larry Hughes, Kirk Hinrich and Drew Gooden
for
Brad Miller, Kenny Thomas and Beno Udrih and Quincy Douby
Lemme know whatcha think.
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I'm in the camp that believes. . .
. . .that not only do the Bulls need to look into dumping salary, they also need to be on the lookout for younger players who may not fit in all that well. The Spencer Hawes rumors stems from the fact that Kings rookie Jason Thompson has been a pleasant surprise. I firmly believe that any deal including Hinrich must bring us a half way decent prospect that can develop & grow along side Derrick Rose
by ChiCity85 on Jan 9, 2009 9:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Spencer Hawes is not coming
You can forget that. Jason Thompson, Kevin Martin, Francisco Garcia, Bobby Brown, and Donté Grééné are all basically untouchable in my view.
Everyone else on the roster, can, and should, be available for the right price.
My opinion, but there is no way anybody can tell me that Kirk Hinrich is going to bring back a solid prospect for the dollars he is making.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, who knew the Kings had 5 "untouchable" players on their roster.
by smash! on Jan 9, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia & Martin have been hurt the majority of the season
Thompson was getting some mins, as was Hawes who was getting quite a bit. Brown has gotten some mins, and Donté hardly any. That’s partly why the Kings have such an awful record. (Which, I don’t mind. This team had to rebuild anyway. Sooner is better than later.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are they any good?
Does Kirk Hinrich, or someone put them “over the edge”… of anything? Do any of those players get them back anything that would?
No, no, no. They might as well build with what little youth they have and wait a couple of years to see if they grow.
It’s the same thing with the Bulls, in a way. Will Thomas bring back anything significant? Even if he plays well from now until the trade deadline? Probably not with his salary. So why not make them “untouchable”, for at least this year, and see what happens?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 9, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the difference tyger
And since you don’t do stupid, and judging by your sig, you read, the point is a bit different. TT hasn’t quite succeeded on the level that everyone was hoping by this being the middle of his 3rd year. While, the Kings young players are just starting to see time, and several are ahead of veteran counterparts they were behind at the start of the season. My point? Simple as pie. The Kings want to know what they got before they trade any of those guys for players who may be a marginal upgrade at the very best.
For the record, I do like your sig.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See in Chicago they just remember the potential,
they forget that the player makes no progress whatsoever.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 9, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed - most GM's would give up any 2, 3 or 4 of those players for an All-NBA player
such as LBJ, Dwight Howard, Wade, Bosh or Amare.
The only untouchable player on the Bulls is Rose because he is from Chicago and projected as an All-NBA player. The only other untouchable in team history was MJ – Pippen was considered for trades several times and eventually sent away in a sign and trade.
by Granny Waiters on Jan 11, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One of your untouchables...
Just got sent to the D-League…hmmm? I wonder if the Kings share your sentiments….they don’t…I am sorry, the only untouchables on that roster are probably Kevin Martin (BYC) and Francisco Garcia (PPP).
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 11, 2009 7:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep I'm sure they do
Greene being sent to the D League I suspect has to do with playing time if nothing else.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact for Donté
It’s probably a very good thing. Whether he takes advantage I’m not sure though. (Besides, the Lakers did this, and it helped Farmar some. Why can’t it help Grééné in this situation where he isn’t getting PT anyway?)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Bulls aren't making a run at 2010, this deal works for me.
It clears cap space to resign BG while locking up a big to play with Tyrus and Noah next year.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 9, 2009 9:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
This could work for Sacramento
In that they could tie this in to doing a deal with New York and making them take Hughes & Thomas for Starbury, or something like that.
Clearing cap space is the deal for Sacramento, and Chicago, and New York doesn’t mind taking contracts back as long as they don’t expire past 2010. More trade chips for them allow them to put a competitive team on the court which will only help their ability to attract LeBron.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Udrih has a base year contract deduction
So it is only 22,730,000 going out for the Kings.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 9, 2009 10:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No he doesn't
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
schooled!
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 9, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And got the Math & English class I skipped today to prove it
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is Larry Coon's FAQ
And his explanation of BYC. You are right, that his contract would be half if he was BYC, but Beno is not. For the following reasons, so you must pay attention to this, even if you think I’m an asshole (you’re right, but not for me correcting you).
BYC defines the salary that’s used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player’s actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:
The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it’s the minimum salary).
The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player’s rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.
Now, I, know a little about the salary cap, largely from reading this FAQ. Beno, was a non-Bird FA last summer, and while he received a raise greater than 20% of his 2 salaries (the one he got from Minnesota waiving him, and the one he received from Sacramento), he also was not an early Bird FA, or for that matter, anybody’s FA. Essentially, BYC is calculated with Bird Rights, and not much else from what I’ve seen. Most teams, though, are over the cap, which is why most teams end up with guys who are BYC. Lesson over.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crapola
Forgot to post the Larry link so everyone could see where the blockquote came from. Egads.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see
I am not an expert on the CBA. Not even close.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 9, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN Trade checker is accurate as far as I can tell
So, if you just want to see whose BYC or not, it’s a good source to tell you. It’ll also tell you who has a trade restriction as well.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If they want to clear cap space
and room in the backcourt, then this is the deal:
by chlutz508 on Jan 9, 2009 10:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not really sure why Portland would do that
Especially after complaining about what (somebody) did.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing I like about this deal is moving Larry Hughes.
What I don’t like is getting so little for a starting point guard and an expiring contract. I would rather pass on this type of a deal that does not bring any long term help to Chicago. Frankly, this is a salary dump that brings back a sort of crappy long term deal in Udrih.
While I would love to move Hughes, I think there are better deals out there for the Hinrich/Gooden combo.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 9, 2009 10:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing else worth talking about then
Unless you want to add TT and Gooden in a deal for Miller.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Btw
If Kirk Hinrich is that good, the Bulls would have selected someone other than Derrick Rose with that pick in 08. Now I know Hinrich is of starting quality, but so is Udrih, and he’s cheaper.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well at their career bests, sure
currently neither Hinrich and Udrih are starting caliber.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true too
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd probably do this deal
I won’t bother trying to swap young players. I have a slight concern with getting so little in return for Hinrich, as technically an expiring deal would be of more value than Udrih.
But I more-or-less like the deal.
Problem, yet again, is that the Bulls are upping their ’09 payroll nearly $6m with Miller/Thomas/Udrih instead of Hughes/Hinrich. So Pax has to somehow save money by unloading Thomas/Udrih/Nocioni to sign Gordon. Pretty unlikely.
If it was possible to take expirings instead of Thomas (combination of Jackson/Douby/Williams) then it’s a much better deal. That may a better price for Hinrich.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 12:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought about that too Matt
And I see your point, but Hinrich & Hughes are making just over 23 million combined next season. With Beno MIller & Thomas combined you have just under 27.1 million. It goes up, but not to the extent that it totally raises the whole salary to new levels of near luxury taxdom by doing this deal. And, to this end, I would be willing to see the team do Mikki Moore for Kenny Thomas instead, which then the Bulls can always buy out Moore before June 20th, or whenever the exact date is, and save money that way as well.
I used DX’s salaries info (I normally use Sham, but he hasn’t updated his info since the Allen Iverson trade which lends me to believe he now does the stuff for DX and is ignoring his blog salary info).
But, all expirings to make the Bulls do this deal doesn’t provide enough of a reason to do it. And Douby could be had. But the Kings won’t eat all of this salary, and it’s not like what the Bulls are giving up is that great either. The reason I bring this up, is because if the Kings don’t keep an expiring salary, their cap # is going to be far worse than the Bulls next season. That won’t happen either just to make Reinsdorf happy.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But then
Gooden is no longer part of the deal anyway for Moore to be part of it from the Kings end.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're correct
not sure how I got ~$21m the first time, it’s more like $23. Not so shabby.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but I don't like the deal
If you want to trade Miller for Hughes, go ahead. I would do that right now. But I think Gooden is better then Kenny Thomas. And since his contract expires this year, maybe the Bulls could get a little more… Good effort though.
by bull83 on Jan 9, 2009 12:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
NO thanks
Hughes ain’t worth a damn to the Kings.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So, you want to trade crap - except Miller, but he's getting older - for players that can contribute?
I prefer having Gooden then Kenny Thomas. As far as I’m concern, Gooden can resign if he accepts a MLE contract.
by bull83 on Jan 9, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which players are contributing?
Gooden, oh yeah sure, we gotta have him. Oh my lord Drew Gooden! Larry Hughes? Cmon, I’m from Sactown, and I’m nowhere that bright. But please. And Hinrich is hurt. How can anybody on the inactive list contribute?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'm not saying he is contributing
I said he can. Are you saying Hinrich isn’t better then Uldrich. If he isn’t, why would you include him on this deal? If you did, it’s because you want the guy and think that hes better than Uldrich. By the way, Gooden can contribute. Unless you think that Miller can’t contribute, of course. Because their stats, according to espn, are similar. In fact, Gooden is having a better year than any of your bigs.
See for yourself:
Gooden
Miller
Moore
Hawes
Thompson
But, no, he can’t contribute.
Now, if you include another team on this deal, I might accept it. Let’s say the Sixers. You get Dalembert and Hirinch; the Bulls Andre and Brad Miller; and the sixers Hughes and Uldrich. But Philly isn’t that crazy to accept it, anyway… And I don’t have sure if this trade would put the Kings over the luxury tax
by bull83 on Jan 9, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm what?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or more accurately
Why would the KIngs be paying tax? (Because they wouldn’t be.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just exposed the trade idea, I didn't check it on the trade machine...
Dalembert has a big contract
by bull83 on Jan 9, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Kings won't be paying tax to do a deal like this
And since everyone here knows Reinsdorf won’t pay the tax, I think that scenario hurts everything as well.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No it doesn't
I don’t know about the kings, but this would help the Bulls. Andre Millers contract expires this year. So, the Bulls could use that money to resign BG…
It works on the trade machine. But, like I said, it’s a bad trade for the Sixers.
by bull83 on Jan 9, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nonsense, Hughes provides a focal point for fan
angst, disdain, anger, frustration and hatred!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 10, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a very good trade post.
If the Bulls make a trade it almost has to involve the Kings, and I think you’ve balanced everything out. Matt recognized the central problem for the Bulls, they have to have enough space to resign Gordon at the end of the year. Would you include a 1st round pick to make this deal go through? The Bulls don’t need to be drafting more young players and the Kings don’t really need to either, but the Bulls could use it to grease the wheels for Nocioni or Udrih trade before signing Gordon.
Hinrich, Gooden, and Hughes are probably worth more individually, but then the Bulls will just begetting similar mediocre players in return. The Bulls goal has to be to open playing time, get a few better player fits, and not harm 2010. Include the 1st and I’d do the deal.
by Scotter on Jan 9, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
maybe include Thabo
that’s a couple million savings for ’09
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only problem with that
is the Kings SF glut.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that's assuming Thabo is a "player" to be included
If he’s thrown in for salary reasons that’s different.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, no reason for the Kings
to take on more salary, especially if they can’t play the guy.
by Scotter on Jan 9, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And get back the 1st rounder?
Not sure if you were thinking that, but it sounds alright. Then the Bulls can concentrate on replacing what little Thabo gave them anyway. With Hinrich, Martin, Greene, Thompson and Hawes, plus Garcia and (?)Brown(?) it’s not like they need any more picks.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 9, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That I would disagree with
It would be nice to take a project 1st rounder with the Houston 1st rounder, and pick up a big with shot blocking/rebounding/low post future capabilities, and go slow developing him in the interim. Sorta like what the Bob’s are doing with Ajinca, but, succeeding at it.
Most StR’ers disagree with me, as I’m against the Kings taking Blake Griffin, but I think the bigger weakness is at PG, and Ricky Rubio is exactly what the team needs.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think Hinrich would actually be very good for the Kings.
It puts him back at PG, which really is his true position, in what I assume will continue to be a fairly structured offense with a lot of guys that could shoot around him. He’s never going to make the creative pass in the lane or on the break, but he will kick it out to the shooters or drop a nice bounce pass to bigs cutting on the baseline. He’s young enough to be part of the long term picture,and will never be a problem guy. I would guess it’s better than even money that they would revert to his 06/07 level of play. And I say this as someone, who’s clearly not a member of the resident Blogabull Hinrich fan club.
by Scotter on Jan 9, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be looking at him
Along with a guy like Rubio long term. The way I look at it. And totally, I agree with you, that Hinrich is one guy who I think would solve some of the short term problems for this group. Changing the Mix in the EC (Evil Cowtown) is something badly needed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Kings won't bother to do that
Taking on extra money is hard enough. I don’t see which 1st you are talking about, and to be quite honest, I don’t really see where anybody in the Bulls side requires a 1st in return to deal them. Are you talking about the Kings 1st, or the Houston 1st? (I hope the Houston 1st, but even then, I fail to see it.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't thinking that specifically.
I just assumed the Kings had a 09 1st round pick, didn’t know they had two. I don’t care, which one and they can be top 3 or 7 protected for all I care. The Bulls feel like they’re an asset short in this deal because they have to make a 2nd deal.
The Bulls will need to unload Udrih or Nocioni. I’m not confident either fetches an expiring contract by themselves in this economy. Or a 1st would facilitate the other option of dealing Nocioni for a cheaper better fit at SF so the team could clear space that way.
by Scotter on Jan 9, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All adding a 1st round pick
is add salary to the team’s burden.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But, it's a small burden that can lead to huge cost savings
down the road. It’s an investment opportunity instead of just paying to rent somebody.
by Scotter on Jan 9, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
And I won’t argue that point. But, as long as you understand that doing this deal is done to shift the gears around for this group a bit, and not give up too much in return to get any of these guys, than that defeats the whole purpose. All my point is. And there’s no guarantee the Kings would do this.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
there will be enough interest around the league that we can do better for Hinrich.
That being said if I struck out around the league on dumping Hughes. I’d take a long look at a deal based around this framework.
Essentially I wouldn’t do this trade and I’m not terribly opposed to Starburying Larry after the deadline or buying him out to keep him away.
Also, after this year I think Hinrich provides more production per dollar. The savings on Udrih this year is really only valuable(to me) if Paxson can put them to good use…which I’m kind of doubting he can(although I’m sure its possible).
by reprisal on Jan 9, 2009 2:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There won't be interest
until Kirk comes back, gets back into shape, and establishes himself again (or not). In other words, not until the deadline’s long gone.
I fully expect Kirk to be here until the summer. We can’t get value for him at present, and we don’t know what’s gonna happen to BG.
It’s Larry Hughes or bust.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 9, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
during the preseason
i was convinced more and more that kirk would be on the team the whole season, and the more likely time to trade him would be over the summer, and his injury just makes that more likely, i think.
by Jaina on Jan 9, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading him in the summer is fine
in a perfect world the sooner the better, but we can wait. I’m sure its easier for teams to integrate a new PG then anyways.
by reprisal on Jan 9, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For the Kings it wouldn't matter
They probably would insist on a physical for Hinrich though. Actually, all 3 players.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think physicals are always given
but if Shareef can pass…. :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not convinced he can't be moved now tho
by reprisal on Jan 9, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that he can be moved now,
I just don’t think he should – unless we can get a decent value for him. Teams like Sacramento, Philly, and even Portland have plenty of young talent to offer for him, and could use him, but we’re not going to get any of it until Kirk returns to form. And I think he can.
It’s just my opinion, but I want to see us target young players that can grow with Derrick, not Brad Miller. Some of the recent posts have reflected this. Speights (who’s stuck behind Brand), Fernandez (whose play has tailed off and is stuck behind Roy), even Hawes (who might be superfluous with the emergence of Jason Thompson). We can’t get these players at present, because Kirk’s been hurt, and his value blows, but after a good season, it might be the right move. Combine that with the uncertainty of the upcoming summer, and I don’t want Kirk to be traded. I want Hughes or Noc traded. Unlike Kirk, they’re not going to raise their value through their play (though Hughes expiring deal might be worth something next year); unlike Kirk, they don’t actually hurt us in games.
Would I take Miller? I suppose I would, but for me the only attraction is in chasing the 2010 dream. If Brad Miller didn’t have a short deal, I’d have zero interest.
Zilch, nada, nihil.
We’re not going to win anything with Brad Miller at center, and nobody here thinks we will, which is why I’m puzzled at the amount of brainpower that’s gone into imagining him as a Bull. I think we can do better. And I have the sinking suspicion that when we do harpoon our big white whale (as been said) we’re going to be left with the same emptiness that the reference suggests.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 9, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're not getting Hawes for one simple reason
The Kings value him. It has nothing to do with Jason Thompson. Kirk Hinrich is not going to bring back Spencer Hawes in a trade, unless Spencer is no longer worth having. And I suspect, by that point, you’ll know it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine Brad Miller at center all the time
the alternative is watching the actual team.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Brad would improve the team,
and that that may be the only thing that matters. The truth is, I’m pretty split on this. I don’t really see any great options.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 9, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone at the 5 who can stop the other team from running layup drills during the game
would be an excellent addition to the Bulls at this point.
by Granny Waiters on Jan 10, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The only Brad is stopping layup drills is by fouling.
His average defense has turned to bad with age.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 10, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Norm Van Lier approves
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally trade with the Kings for the Bulls
would just be Hughes and Gooden for Moore and Miller. Kings open up PT for Hawes and Thompson, and it’s a lot easier to sit Hughes behind guys like Martin, Garcia, and Salmons. Plus the Kings save a little money next season. And the Kings are welcome to take a chance on Aaron Gray, Cedric Simmons, or Thabo, or the Bulls can include a protected 1st rounder. The Bulls can bye out Moore. Have a solid rotation of Miller, Thomas, and Noah up front for a year and a half. And can hopefully move Nocioni or Hinrich later to clear space to sign Gordon. Not the greatest deal for the Kings, but after thinking about it more guI wouldn’t do Pookeyguru’s original deal. Essentially giving up 3.5 years of Hinrich for a 1.5 years of Miller and right to pay Beno almost as much as Hinrich isn’t a good enough deal for the Bulls, especially with the uncertainty over signing Gordon.
by Scotter on Jan 9, 2009 5:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like to be fair
But I also know the way this deal works. Chicago isn’t getting over, and neither will Sac. There will be give & take here.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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