Paxson on Score. Wants to move the ball more.
http://67.72.16.166/wscr2/1518724.mp3
Tried to make this a FanShot. Sorry.
Sounds like he's talking about Larry there? Luol is not a quick shot player? Hmmm. Paxson wants the ball moved around better. He also talked about tightening up the rotation.
One thing I did like about the 2006 team is they did share the ball really well and scrapped on defense. I think the ball movement has improved. The defense has sucked.
Sounds like Paxson wants to see Noah and Tyrus develop which I wanna see also.
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128 comments
Comments
So
he says their either going to clear up the lineup glut via a trade or “tighten” up the rotation and basically just force players they can’t trade (Larry/Noce) to the bench, where they’ll stay. Hmm…I’d much rather see a trade.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 8, 2009 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just wonder why it took them nearly a year to see the obvious course of action
Or at least, to publicly threaten to implement it.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 8, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see a tight rotation
Rose, Gordon, Hinrich, Thabo, Deng, Noah, Tyrus, Gray. Scrap Hughes, Noc, Gooden altogether, and get our young guys consistent minutes.
by YaoPau on Jan 8, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
please swap Gooden for Gray in that rotation
Gooden needs to be showcased until the deadline. No need to play Gray big minutes.
by kig on Jan 8, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No need to play Gray at all.
He’s young, but even when he’s older he’ll always be awful….have him go to Europe.
by majoyenrac on Jan 8, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep gooden, not for his talent but for his contract. Let him come off the books, I don’t think he’ll start pouting because its his contract year.
by chowder on Jan 8, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's EXACTLY why he'd be pouting!!!!
Every guy thinks he’s really good, and I’m sure Gooden’s no different. For one, he thinks he’s good on defense, so if he’s that dillusional about his defense, he probably thinks he’s awesome on offense. Plus, his actions on the court speak to that.
He’s 27 and looking for a big contract. He’ll learn that he’s not worth it, but he doesn’t want to be sat for inferior players (as he sees it) when he’s getting “prime years” contract.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 9, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
okay Pax???
So that’s the problem .. ball movement … not the fact you have put together a team of chuckers with no low post presence. Paxson needs to be fired today!!!
by Bullsfanla on Jan 8, 2009 12:10 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I think he's come to the conclusion that there really isn't anyone out there right now.
As far as a post guy. Kaman maybe but how doable is that?
I saw video of the Bulls practice on Comcast and VDN was teaching Noah post moves. Diamond in the rough right there. Noah looked frustrated and VDN had a hopeless look on his face. Anyways..
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yea why hire a big man
coach with actual post experience when Noah can learn post moves from a former guard? I’m surprised they’re all not just doing fadeaway turnarounds from the post.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 8, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't have to be a big man to know basic post moves
nor to teach them. Under this logic, the best coaches would be the best former players, but we know that’s not the case.
by arjoseph on Jan 8, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I have a friend who is about 6’3 maybe a generous 6’4. By nba and college standards that a guard. But on his high school basketball team he played center and can thusly perform a plethora of post moves. Go to any gym, and alot of times you’ll find the 6’2 and up guys have a habit of playing in the paint since growing up they were usually the tallest guys around. Most guys who play basketball competetively have a habit or learning how to do everything in the game, im sure guys like gray practice shooting 3pters from time to time…and guys like gordon practice posting dudes up and hitting the baby hooks. Doesnt mean they can use them in games, but guys who love the game just have a desire to keep learning and getting better.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jan 8, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That may be true
But considering the Bulls are a half a billion dollar organization, I’d want somebody more qualified than your friend to coach our $4 million per year 1st round picks.
Pete Myers may know post moves like the back of his hand, but that doesn’t mean he should get anywhere near Joakim and Tyrus.
by YaoPau on Jan 8, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Myers may know post moves like the back of his hand, but that doesn’t mean he should get anywhere near Joakim and Tyrus.
Im confused…why not?
its one thing if the fact is he cant teach anyone anything, but say he was a good teacher in general, if he knows what a big man is supposed to do, why not have him teach the players.
post moves i hear are those skills that are just hard to pick up. Like pure pg skills. You can either do it within you first few years of entering the pros, or you cant. And if you cant, you probably will never learn. Sure you might develop a baby hook, but thats not the same of being labeled a post move guy. For example tyson chandler; the guy never had a post move when he came into the league, and even now when he is so effective, he still has no post move. Instead he uses his physical ability (and great looks from his pg) to get in position to dunk the ball. Aside from that he is just a rebounder and shot blocker.
Then we have guys like hawes and gray. They are the exact opposites, they lack hte athletic tools in order to be great, but they are skilled in the post. I honestly believe those guys, who have the skill but not the strength are the better projects. Most likely they can hit the gym and add enough weight to utilize thier moves accurately. And example is like like a pau gasol. Pau is probably one of the softest post players i have ever seen. But he has enough strength and athletic ability, though its not mindblowing, to get position, hold it, and then utilize his tremendous skill to get a bucket. On the other hand we have a bynum, who has the athletic ability to force his way into the post, but when he comes across the shaqs and the duncans and the howards, well then he is powerless.
Speaking of which, shaq was always so dominant because of his incredible size and strength, mixed with a nice array of post moves and his “im gonna dunk the ball after i get past you” attitude. He didnt go straight up for dunks, he would often give fakes and shakes, spins and spin fakes and then find the opening and dunk the ball. Howard Posses tremendous athletic ability, but also a good know how of post moves, its why he poses the best chance of being a dominant player other than lebron.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jan 8, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because there's more to post play than just executing the moves
You could have a college WR teaching Devin Hester to run routes correctly, but that high school coach would know nothing about beating a NFL cornerback play after play over the course of a game.
by YaoPau on Jan 8, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The how can Tom Thibadeau teach great defense?
Or how would coaching or the game evolve?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
He's teaching defensive schemes
Teams normally have veterans / former players to develop their young guys one-on-one. The Celtics, for example, employ former Bull center Clifford Ray. Part of the reason we brought in Lindsey Hunter is to help Rose learn defense.
That’s not to say Thibodeau can’t teach his bigs anything. But having a veteran / former post player helps, and right now the Bulls don’t have that for their bigs.
by YaoPau on Jan 8, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think all it is, is credibility
I think if you are a new coach, but you once were a 20/10 guy, new big men will listen to your oppinions on how to be a dominant big man a bit more. Thats not to say its true though. Mj is considered by many to be the GOAT but would he be an effective coach? i doubt it. Also, if d’antoni told one of his bigs, or popovich or phil jackson told his bigs to do something a certain way, i dont think that many big men would argue.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jan 8, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni had Mark Iavoroni for the big men
I’m firmly NOT in the ‘watch tape of Hakeem = post moves!" group, but it is certainly curious that the Bulls do not have a big man coach. Not that they need to as a rule, but because they’ve had no success developing their big men.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well they need someone good at teaching...
…“big man” skills to big men. I don’t care how big the guy actually is.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yep
agreed :)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jan 8, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right I understand your point
but what I meant was what qualifies VDN as a big man coach? Just bc he’s the head coach? I’m talking about strictly helping the bigs develop post moves, not other coaching duties. Take for example the effect Patrick Ewing has had on players like Yao/Dwight Howard.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 8, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was common knowledge that Ewing's just there to go on the road trips and visit his favorite strippers
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 8, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would hope that part of the reason VDN is the head coach is for his overall basketball knowledge and ability to transmit it.
Right? This had to part of the interview process, right? Student of the game and all that? Playing the game does not necessarily mean you can teach the game. Also, playing the game is not the only way to know the game. Sure, Ewing (or Hakeem, or whoever) might be able to transmit some little tricks that they learned while playing, but that would really only help someone who already had the fundamentals. By all accounts we’re talking about teaching Noah how to properly execute a drop step, an up-and-under, etc. He’s shown no evidence of mastery of these basic moves in games, so I’m guessing that’s what VDN is covering: essential post moves to give big men better opportunities to score than just flailing around. And before you bring it up, I’m sure Noah has encountered these before; it’s more a matter of practicing them and having someone supervising his technique more than anything.
by arjoseph on Jan 8, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right,
besides the fact that these guys are pro basketball players, who should already have mastered the fundamentals, it’s the process of using those fundamentals and executing them at the highest of levels.
That is what a big man coach can help – not by teaching tricks or gimmicks – but by instructing these kids on what exactly they should be doing and how quickly they should be doing it.
I’m not sure if Paxson posed the question to Vinny in his interview about his plan for developing the big men in the post, but he certainly should have. Assuming he did, what could Vinny possibly have said at that point in the game that wouldn’t just be a standard generalization?
He had no real knowledge of the individual players’ games besides what he saw from up in the suite in PHX and even then, TT and Noah are both extremely young. So an answer of “We’re going to take these kids and bring them to the next level and with Derrick/BG/Kirk’s skills they should be open a lot.”
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 8, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He has to keep trying...
He can’t give up so quickly. If he can’t make a trade and clean all this mess, then I agree with Bullsfanla: he needs to be fired
by bull83 on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure but is that his goal
What is the goal right now dump trash or grab talent? I actually think its more important to dump the trash ( Noah, Hughes) or dump salary ( Noc, Kirk) than it is to get a good big man back.
by Jscho316 on Jan 8, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Coincidental?
Pax responds to fans desire to see young bigs developed and Bulls release video of VDN PERSONALLY teaching Noah post moves. Forgot to give Noah his script and motivation.
by California Al on Jan 9, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are the quick shot guys and
the guys that don’t move the ball well….. Hughes, Nocioni, and Gordon.
by Mattchoo on Jan 8, 2009 12:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gordon
moves the ball into the basket.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Hughes, Nocioni and
Gooden.
/fixed
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 8, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would consider grouping Gooden in there with the other 3 I mentioned,
BUT, just like Nocioni, Gooden is asked to fill a certain type of role and he is doing just that. If he gets a passout from a contested drive, and he is less than 18 feet from the basket and wide open, then he is going to shoot the ball.
I don’t have a problem with Gooden or Nocioni in terms of what they DECIDE to do on the floor offensively most of the time. Both of those players seem to do what is asked of them from this team. I do have a problem with Hughes shot selection, and Ben Gordon’s decisions (from time to time) to go 1 on 1 not even looking to pass when we really need to run the fricking offense instead. I’d rather Hughes just not play at all, and Ben Gordon stand by the arc waiting for a pass from Derrick. Sounds like a win/win to me
by Mattchoo on Jan 8, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe his wanting
quick shot guys, means he wants no more Aaron Gray….ever….
I’ve been venting on Aaron, which is a tad unfair, but he’s not an NBA player, and he does indeed make a lot of money, so he’ll have to live with it.
by majoyenrac on Jan 8, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We just can't sit these guys
So we’ll have to try and trade them, imagine if we take them out the rotation it would cause a major rift between the players and coaches. Unless the plan is to tank the season at this point we’re going to have to try and trade them.
by Bullsfanla on Jan 8, 2009 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Also sounds like he's
bashing Tyrus for being a “me-first” kinda guy.
“Tyrus has played well in his minutes. The thing w/ Tyrus and it goes back to day 1…there are times in just about every game when he tries to do a little to much…it’s sometimes out of being hungry to perform well but it’s the fine line between helping your team win and looking at the individual thing”
That individual thing?? Um…you mean rebounding/trying to create some offense? He’s got to be talking about Tyrus taking those 15-footers right?
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 8, 2009 12:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it's not that bad
sometimes when he tries to create offense, he does get out of control. the thing is i don’t think he’s doing it to pad his stats or anything like that, or to be a ball hog, but there are definitely times where he needs to give up the ball when he doesn’t. i think he really is trying to help the team but he’s not making the right choice.
by Jaina on Jan 8, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
He’s not saying that Tyrus is selfish, he’s saying Tyrus lacks poise and the ability to play within himself. It’s more self-centered than selfish. I forget where I heard/read this, but there’s a difference between asking what you need to do and asking what needs to be done. The first is self-centered thinking (even if it is well intentioned).
by arjoseph on Jan 8, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No it's that
Tyrus doing a flashy thing too often when it’s not necessary with the hope of showing up on sportscenter…..
Come on, don’t say Tyrus is always perfect. He does try to do too many things and not make the game simple for him….and when he does make the game come to him, he can be astounding….and he is improving at that…..
by majoyenrac on Jan 8, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Just get the LBG self-image out of him and he may be ok. He just seems to think that he’s got an underappreciated wing game, and tries to showcase it in inappropriate situations. Like Gasol did a very good and funny Magic-impression during a blowout last week, but not at a time when it meant anything.
by California Al on Jan 9, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is the club actually listening to this blog?
blog or group therapy for Bulls fans, but whatevs.
We ask when was the last time Pax talked to the media yesterday. Today he talks to the media.
We say Larry Hughes can’t finish at the rim. Larry attacks and finishes at the rim.
Could we just sticky a post such as “Hey Bulls, do this” and list everything we want?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 8, 2009 12:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Can we star now?
1 – Fire Pax
2 – Fire VDN
3 – Get a new GM
3 – Trade Hinrich, Noc and, especially, Hughes
4 – Get a good/reasonable Big Man
4 – Get a good coach (Avery, Thibodeau… whatever)
5 – Resign BG
Did I forgot something?
by bull83 on Jan 8, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You only forgot that Avery Johnson doesn't qualify as a good coach
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 8, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Avery has the highest winning percentage all time for NBA coaches.
Who is better than that?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 8, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A coach that doesn't let the team collapse
They lost the last 3 of the Finals and then 4-7 to Golden State.
Dallas had enough talent to beat Golden State that year. I haven’t seen a coach outcoach the other as bad as Nellie did Avery in that series.
by Jscho316 on Jan 8, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. You are a smart one. That's for sure, now.
I see your absolute ignorance of statistics and raise you petty sarcasm!!!
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ignorance of stats?
Petty sarcasm?
Clearly you are missing something…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 8, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true, winning percentage is a stat.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
um... the sarcasm was that deep
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Van Gundy, for starters
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 8, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I got me with Van Gundy ;)
But, really. Without Van Gundy and Avery, who could coach the Bulls? I think JR don’t want to spend money getting a coach from other team…
by bull83 on Jan 8, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Flip Saunders, who's had a very nice run of success with various types of teams (young, old, fast, slow)
and is able to make things work on both sides of the court.
Eddie Jordan’s got a good offensive mind.
Anyone else with a pulse who promises not to force Rose to look to the sidelines for a play call each time he slowly walks it up the court
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 8, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Also anyone who watched the Mavs under Avery
It’s all isolation plays. They were one of the worst passing teams, but were successful because Dirk is an amazing 1-on-1 player, Howard/Harris/Terry can all have big games, and they defended and rebounded well. Avery’s an average coach. With our present roster he would be a disaster. Give me a coach who has a legit offensive philosophy and let an assistant control the defense.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 8, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eddie Jordan was on NBATV last night
and they did a brief walkthrough of a set of the Princeton offense.
On the one hand, it was pretty interesting and something I sincerely doubt Vinny could do with such command.
However, having a ‘system’ sometimes means you’re not coaching to your talent, something Jordan was accused of (and I had enough of watching with Skiles)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that's the trapping of any head coach (in really any sport)
A coach with a rigid philosophy that refuses to adapt will get fired eventually. Skiles had a good system in place. But he didn’t adapt when the team got younger and more athletic up front.
I think Flip Saunders is probably the best guy out there that can get any team to play a solid offensive game. He’s a bad in-game tactician, but at this point the Bulls need guidance, not a playoff general.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 8, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As leader of the Flip Saunders summer bandwagon
I salute you.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's my salute? :-(
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/1/8/713975/paxson-on-score-wants-to-m#
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 8, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
George Karl seems to be good at it, too.
At least offensively.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Might be a good system for this team
Arenas, Bibby, and White Chocolate all thrived as PG’s in it. Deng and Thomas could have a field day as cutters w/ Noah passing from the high post and BG sniping from behind the arc.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 8, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
video
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2009/01/07/nba_20090107_on_court.nba/index.html
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"No standing" -- says Eric Snow
I bet Jordan is the coach next year. Bets?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
Riley’s great because he adapted his “system” to three different groups of players. Who would have guessed that the Knicks team the Bulls beat was coached by the same guy as the Showtime Lakers?
by California Al on Jan 9, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eddie jordan
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Jan 8, 2009 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd to that snley
Avery had the most talented team handed to him and failed miserably against a sig less talented Heat and Warriors club where Avery overcoached and tried to form the more talented team to play in the less talented team’s game….
He should have stuck to his guns and lead his 67 win team to do what they did and had other teams conform….
Avery was not dealt a Bulls club of mismashed potatoes…
by majoyenrac on Jan 8, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we drafted Beasley
I think if the Bulls had drafted Beasley, Avery would have the perfect coach for the Bulls. Beasley is a very similar player to Dirk, and Avery made Dirk into a better player than he had been for any other years in his career. We would have had a similar team to his Dallas teams, with a small backcourt and a big man that likes to go out to the perimeter. Too bad for Beasley he didn’t get a coach like Avery, although I think Beasley will be fine in the long run.
Anyone else read Avery’s book, “Aspire Higher”. He has an overall good philosophy imo.
For our current team, Tom Thibodeau was the perfect choice. We would have a really good defense, and Rose/Gordon are good enough going one on one to carry us offensively, to at least being a 46-50 win team if we were elite defensively.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if Dirk was a better player under Avery.
The stats might have improved, that that’s probably more a scheme thing than player development.
Beasley or no, having a guy called the Little General on this team of fragile personalities probably wouldn’t have worked so well.
by arjoseph on Jan 8, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Um... why does that matter?
Wasn’t that his point?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beasley
a very similar player to Dirk? Maybe in 4-5 yrs, except he is what 4-5 inches shorter (a BIG piece of what Dirk can do) and is all hypotheticals….Dirk is Dirk. Beasley is just a rook and he has a LONG way to go to be Dirk, if he ever could be Dirk….and he will always be a bit more guardable if he is similar to Dirk, given Dirk’s height is a major plus to what Dirk is….
Plus saying that Avery might be the perfect coach if we drafted Beasley is stupid, when you say he’d be the perfect coach because they Beasely/Dirk are similar players, because Avery was not the perfect coach for Dirk, since that stacked team lost and Dirk seems to be playing as well as ever of late under Rick.
by majoyenrac on Jan 8, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Beasley’s game is a lot similar to Dirk’s. Height of cours is a determining factor. If Beasley was 7’, would there be any doubt that Beasley would have been the top pick?
As for Dirk, Dirk won the MVP under Avery. The Mavericks went to the finals and had a 67 win season under Avery. Dirk led the league in PER for 2 straight years under Avery, and led the league in win shares for 3 straight.
The Warriors series is on Dirk, not Avery. In the regular season, Dirk had a 60.5 TS. In the playoffs, that dropped to 50.9. Dirk took 25.8% of Dallas’ scoring opportunities, so that type of steep drop off in efficiency was destined to kill the team.
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If your going to add an hypothetical 5" to Beasley
than you might as well do that for Rose too. That would make Rose into Lebron and Beasley into Dirk. I’m thinking Beasley would STILL be the second pick, Rose the first by the same margin as existed back in June.
by idel212 on Jan 8, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I still think given how good Rose is out of the box and how athletic he is that he’d still be the #1 overall even if Beasley added a hypothetical 5 inches….
But it’s all hypothetical.
by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Dirk Dislike Avery
I thought I heard a venting session from Dirk in the post-johnson era where he equated him to a dictator. Plus, Dirk is a solid professional, and Beasley had those types of question marks coming in, do you think he would have responded to an Avery type?
by chowder on Jan 8, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My gut feeling is
no…Maybe in the short term, much like our players with Skiles. Through the whole coaching search over the summer it seemed to come out that Avery was even harder on players than Skiles is…Plus I got to figure that Beasley’s well documented defensive deficits would keep him on the bench under Johnson.
by idel212 on Jan 8, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
1. Fire Paxson
2. Hire Jerry West(long shot) or Billy Knight
3. Fire or demote VDN
4. Premote either Harris or Bickerstaff for the rest of the year
5. Trade Noc, Hughes for expiring contracts before trade deadline
6. Trade Hinrich and another roster player for Good/Reasonable Big Man before trade deadline
7. Play the young guys (Noah,Tyrus,Thabo, Gray) as many minutes as possible
8. Semi- Tanking the season and hoping the ping pong gods smile on us again
9. Hire Avery Johnson or Eddoe Jordan before the lottery
by Bullsfanla on Jan 8, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Billy Knight?
Seriously why Billy Knight?
Hire Hubie Brown as the coach
by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
first impresion
Pax really does not like Larry Hughes.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Then he should
E-ROB him or traded him asap!! It just sounds like Paxson realizes he has dug himself a whole that he only Isiah could help him get out of. We’re screwed until Paxson is gone.
by Bullsfanla on Jan 8, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We obtained Hughes and Gooden in the Wallace deal. I beleive we by far got the better of the deal.
Gooden is definitely helping us.
by chgobr on Jan 8, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
he's helping sometimes on O, hurting very badly all the time on D.
overall, he’s doing more hurting than helping.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 8, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Gooden hurts us that much on defense. The problem is, we have Aaron Gray, who does some good positional stuff, but lacks any agility and leaping ability.
Then we have Joakim Noah, who has the body of a little girl and has average athleticism. So he is easily pushed out of the way and scored upon.
Gooden has average athleticism, but with good strength, so he gives us a little more on the defensive end than Gray/Noah, while giving us quite a bit more on the offensive end. (Although I think Gray could do a bit more if we fed it into the post to him more often).
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 11:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's all based on their physical prowess... Gooden maybe could be a good defender
but he’s a space cadet and is a defensive sieve. Noah on the other hand, despite his physical shortcomings is our best one on one post defender. Gooden hurts us tremendously on defense. Just watch him out there sometimes, also his adjusted plus minus is worst on the team for a reason.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 9, 2009 1:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
“so he gives us a little more on the defensive end than Gray/Noah,” Should read COULD give us more, but doesn’t.
by California Al on Jan 9, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't think Gooden hurts us on defense.
Then you don’t understand defense…every late rotation, sloppy screen coverage and missed assignment hurts them…not only for that one play, but for future plays when the perimeter defenders remember they can not trust the troglodyte in the paint to help them out.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 9, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But Gooden helps us quite a bit on the boards and definately with the offense, so that’s a wash.
Gooden would be great if we had an enforcer/star at the C spot…..of course I don’t want Drew because Tyrus might already be, and definately will be better….I think the tendency’s too strong to play the more consistent Drew over the burgeoning Tyrus, and pull Tyrus a bit after any flaws given the early season woes.
Gooden can be really really good for 2-3 game stretches on both ends, then really bad for 1 game on both ends but even more so on defense, then just his typical decent offense production and weak D for 2-3 games….
So you take a bit of the good with the bad….nice thing is for his salary he’s very productive…..bad thing is we have a better guy behind him who needs that PT for development.
Drew would look so much better if we had a C who could play D…..wait we might have that a bit too in Noah, but for some reason we see too much of the big Marshmallow…
by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
plus a whopping total of 10 blocks this season
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with you there
He doesn’t hurt, but he definitely doesn’t help. Every big on this team is defensive deficient. Gooden is no drop off from Gray/Noah/Thomas. Now compared to an average defensive big, Gooden is pretty bad.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 9, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's cause you underrate Thomas and Noah's defense
(or that old fallback: the ‘dolt’ argument)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I should know better
blocks and steals are everything in defense!!! Of course letting your guy run right past you up the court for an easy dunk or being late on rotations doesn’t matter at all.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 9, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently it doesn't matter if you're Aaron Gray.
If you’re anyone else, it’s a pretty big deal.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Jan 9, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gooden does the same thing (re: letting his man run by him) and doesn't offer those extra possessions
produced by getting blocks and steals. Gooden is the ultimate turnstile defender.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 9, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can say
whenever I see the big man beating someone down the floor, it is consistently Thomas and Noah’s guys. Gray gets beat way less despite being significantly slower. I have not really noticed it with Gooden at all. I do see him late on switches though. It’s why I all heap them into the bad pile. None of them stand out above others.
And yes, TT gets blocks but half the time he blocks it out of bounds or somewhere far away where it is unlikely to be retrieved. The other half the other team gets the ball and his man scores or his man gets the putback (off the missed block). TT should really work on the soft block to yourself, or at least keeping it in bounds so his own team has a chance to recover.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 9, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Murphy on the score brought up a good point.
Paxson says Vinny needs to simplify the defense while making the offense more complex?
That sentiment expressed by Pax is not exactly a ringing endorsement of coach Vinny? I am really curious how much more simple they can make the defense? Are the players simply too dumb to learn Vinny’s “system’ or is Vinny’s "system” flawed?
Call me crazy, but usually its the offense that is complex and the defense is about hustle, effort, communication and positioning. What is so complex about that?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 8, 2009 1:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't even know what Vinny's system is
Judging by the games. There’s no strategy whatsoever for specific players. If there’s a double team, it comes too late, or the traps are lazy as hell.
And the offense is basically pick and pop with Rose and Gooden, or staggered screens for Gordon, or get out of the way and let Rose do something. So yeah, I’d say Vinny could improve on both ends.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 8, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
uhm
Looks like Paxson wants all the players back playing and healthy before he makes a trade. I think he feels that the phone will ring more then; makes sense.
by J Theory on Jan 8, 2009 1:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
DaBullz.com recap
http://dabullz.com/2009/01/08/john-paxson-on-mully-and-hanley-recap-01-08-09/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 3:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I must say I'm excited
It sounds like moves are finally coming. Paxson has made some trades (Wallace, Chandler, Curry, etc.), so it’s not a matter of him being too hesitant to pull the trigger. The question is whether he makes some unumportant trade involving Hughes, or if he actually can go out and move Hinrich.
Between Kirk Hinrich, Luol Deng, Drew Gooden’s expiring, Larry Hughes’ 2010 expiring, the young guys in Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Omer Asik, and Thabo Sefolosha, I think we could get a legitimate big man prospect. Maybe Carlos Boozer. Maybe Chris Bosh if Toronto comes to the realization that he is leaving in 2010. The good thing is both Utah and Toronto liked Luol at one point, so he could have some value to them.
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd settle for a Hughes dump
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's what's for dinner
Clearly they are going to move Hughes, listening to Pax. Clearly they are NOT going to move Tyrus or Deng, listening to Pax.
If they “can’t” make a move now, while players are hurt as Pax said, then reading between the lines, the player that’s hurt that matters is Heinrich…Gooden is playing, and they aren’t trading Deng. Pax says “Deng’s a good kid…he’s very good player when the ball is being moved…”.
So thus I conclude, it’s Hughes and Heinrich as a package…(they’re keeping Hunter)
by Cholla on Jan 8, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Luol is near impossible to trade
Paxson sounds he is fed up with Hughes, and pawning him for an expiring contract is priority #1. Moving Nocioni and Hinrich and one of the Thabo/Tyrus/Noah clan for a competent big man looms large, but given that the Bulls seem uninterested in Brad Miller I don’t see any other trade happening.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 8, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shawn Marion is a possibility
Marion’s camp and the Heat failed to come to an agreement on an extension over the Summer. He’s unlikely to get anything in the ballpark of the 17 million he’s taking home this season. Perhaps more in the 3-4 years and 10-11 mil per. We won’t pay that, but we’ll lease him for the rest of this season.
Noc and Hinrich gets it done.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 8, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Considering Boozer will miss significant portions of the rest of this season
with his surgery recovery, and considering his flighty nature and the fact that he’s opting out, I don’t want any part of Boozer if we’re giving up productive talent. He’s probably gone after this year, and it’s not like he’s going to win us a title in the meantime.
by arjoseph on Jan 8, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it wouldn’t necessarily be a move for this year, although it could be huge come playoff time.
It would give us a good 3 man core of Rose/Gordon/Boozer, inside out play. We would just need to fill good role players around them that fit.
Boozer would probably be easy to re-sign. Just have to make sure you offer him enough money.
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would the Bulls be able to resign Boozer? It's not like they'd hold Bird Rights
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 8, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. We’d have his bird rights, and thus be able to easily give him more than anyone else.
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we blow off 2010
We can try to sign Marion to the MLE this summer. I doubt he gets much more than that.
I doubt Miami would do that trade either. I know RIley likes Hinrich a lot, but both Hinrich/Nocioni really cuts into their 2010 plan. I think if you replace Nocioni with Deng, then Riley would accept it.
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 3:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
trading deng is NOT going to work
no one’s going to trade for his contract especially with the base year status. just not going to happen.
by Jaina on Jan 8, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marion
Too still has a buzz and will sell seats….he’s likely getting more than the MLE any way you slice or dice it.
Still if we pawned Kirk off in a trade for Marion (Maybe Kirk and Noc and next year’s #1 draft pick)….I might like it just as a “let’s start over” trade….I’d miss Kirk though….and I’d miss Noc though….but it’s for the betterment of the long time team success….
by majoyenrac on Jan 8, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one, in next years free agent market, that’s sane, would offer Marion more than the MLE given his age…and his productivity doesn’t warrant anything more than the MLE anyhow. It’s not like he’s playing t a level that deserves it.
Gordon, Millsap, Boozer, and Okur (maybe) are the players that should expect to be offered more than the MLE in this year’s free agent market.
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about...
AI, Rasheed, Varrajeo, Artest, Odom, Turkoglu and the biggest name of them all…Kobe. While the case could be made that Rasheed and AI are too old to command more than MLE money, I think its a safe bet that the others will get more than MLE…and that does not even take into account the RFA’s who will get paid this Summer.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 8, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I missed Turkoglu. I assume the Magic would just re-sign him.
Allen Iverson could probably still get more than the MLE. I think teams will go after Gordon before Iverson now because of the age.
Ron Artest seems to be set for the MLE. Maybe a little more if he re-signs with the Rockets.
Lamar Odom is in the same boat as Marion, playing like crap, MLE off of reputation is the best he can hope for. Varejao, might make the MLE, probably less.
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by Andrew7 on Jan 8, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well hopefully we can sign Varejao then...
but I think your a bit off tho
by reprisal on Jan 8, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll just have to disagree
Marion’s not performing the way he was performing in Miami sure, but in the right system, he’s proven what he can do.
Folks get so caught up on 30 being too old. That rarely is hte case, that’s just at or dipping on post prime.
I think Marion easily gets a 3-4 yr $10M offer….he is damn good, and is not being used in the run and gun type system that teams like ahem the Bulls would use, since Wade’s so damn effective in the half court. That said coming back after an injury, he’s still giving 12 and 9 and solid defense…..and that’s in a system he isn’t being used properly….
He’ll get a contract…
Boozer’s not going to opt out (I presume) given the injury, he’s probably better waiting a year, which likely means the Jazz either will fire sale AK47 (Which has been my hope—hope Pax is reading) or the Jazz will be forced to let Millsap walk.
by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer said he was going to opt out.
He said he deserves a raise. He didn’t say maybe. Both Elton Brand and Gilbert Arenas opted out after injuries and got paid. Boozer will do the same and likely end up in Miami. Millsap will stay in Utah…
What position would AK47 play in Chicago? Or are you trading Deng for AK (not necessarily a bad move)?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 9, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer said he was going to opt out
But that injury bug hurts him, especially when coupled with the injury early on in his Utah tenure,a nd the fact that both Gilbert and Elton have had major issues coming back from their injuries and are looking like really bad contracts for quite some time at the present….plus add in the big FA class and options and Boozer’s safe $12M+ player option, I think he stays, if he comes back and attracts more $$ he can be very effective.
AK47 is versatile enough to play a lot of 3-4 and both him and Tyrus together could be potent enough as shot alters to be a thin 4-5 tandem on D in spot minutes, and too quick for their defenders to guard.
Rose works in the half court, AK47’s one hell of a passer and defender, Tyrus has a myriad of skills that indicate running the court. Gordon’s one hell of a runner…
Yeah maybe Deng’s the one to go…..and I think perhaps given the Jazz’s cap relief needs we can get some more pieces in this equation.
by majoyenrac on Jan 9, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson.."wants to move the ball more" just pathetic nonsense and filler words!
to replace the obvious “I don’t know what the heck I’m doing”
man up!
by exult463 on Jan 9, 2009 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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