BLOW IT UP PROPOSAL #9,999,999
Why don't we try this as a blow it up proposal....a pure development move and one that allows us to be major players in the 2010 sweepstakes and given that we're giving up more talent, is actually likely plausible if the Bulls were risky enough to take it.
"Why don't the Cavs and Bulls make a trade":http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2429~2456~3437~831&teams=5~5~4~4&te=&cash=
Sczerbiak and JJ Hickson plus this year's upcoming draft pick (likely 27th-30th) and next year's upcoming draft pick (likely in the same) both unprotected for
We throw in the towel and start over, getting some cap money to play with next year and/or retain for the following year.
Bulls lineup the rest of this year:
- Rose at PG (backed with Hinrich)
- Gordon at SG (backed with Hinrich and Thabo Sefalosha)
- Sefalosha at SF (backed with Szcerbiak)
- Tyrus Thomas at PF (backed with Gooden and JJ Hickson)
- Joakim Noa at C backed with Gooden.
- Bulls have 30.9M locked up in salaries for next season (or likely more like $36-38M with the 1st round draft picks). Hughes and Hinrich are still available in trades.
Cavs Lineup is awesome. Really and truly awesome.
- Mo at PG
- West (when he's back) at SG backed with Pavlovic
- Deng at SF backed with Noc
- James at PF backed with Noc, Wallace
- Big Z at C backed with Varejao and Wallace
- Wallace and Deng are very friendly too, which is nice for them. The Cavs are the deepest team in the league and will win a championship barring a LeBron James injury. They definitely make out in the talent department, but in the long haul perhaps this is the "Starting over" the Bulls need to make. Luol Deng will never be a top 5 SF, but he's perenially nipping on top 10, and Nocioni's a great to have for a contender and would definately give the Cavs some bite.
Bulls can either make a Boozer (or more likely since I don't think Boozer's opting out given the injuries and player option) the Millsap run, or choose to just wait one mor eyear, develop the new core of Rose-Tyrus Thomas-Joakim Noah and be real players in 2010.
If the Cavs win it all there's very little chance Lebron leaves his hometown, and I'd be really surprised with that lineup if they didn't.
The Bulls really get the chance to start over.....develop these young players, and be major players in 1.5 years.
As a Bulls fan I can live with us being horribly bad perhaps (and seemingly so) even if the Cavs get a title out of it (someone's going to win anyway, and try as we might there is no chance we're getting Lebron James either way (it's Lebron to the Cavs, Heat or Knicks, and I bet he stays with the Cavs for the hometown thing)....
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I don't know
My guess is that Paxson is still a competitor by nature, and giving up the entire farm to help the central division rival (who really doesn’t need any help now anyway) is against the grain.
I still have my fingers crossed that he has something (anything?) in the works for trade — waiting for the good nudge brought on by the impending trade deadline to get other teams to panick and give up something worthwhile…. yeah, that’s what’s taking so long…
Press the trade button. At this point no one will be missed!
by BCs71 on Jan 26, 2009 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I have hope for that too
But I do think this is just a throw your hands up for this year because we’re not doing anything.
Much as I at times have criticized Luol, I never would want him to go like this in a pure salary dump, he’s a better player than that, but doing this might finally give the org the excuse to focus on development, and while I like Luol, the fact that he’s likely never going to be a top 5 SF in one of the most athletic and competitive spots in the league is a cause for concern, esp when he and Noc have value in this league.
Luol will hold his value pretty well throughout this contract, even if it’s slightly high, given past success, and the fact that he never kills you, won’t really complain about roles, plays and is thought of as a high bball IQ guy…..
So in that regard, this trade might not be the best for us (obviously), but it gives us an excuse to start over and develop, and still have HInrich and Hughes’s contracts to work out a trade should we desire.
Essentially while the SF isn’t quite a glut, it’s a lot of money tied to a position that isn’t the upper crust in this league, and this might allow us to overcome that, focus on the new big 3 development, suck and get another high draft pick, and have the luxury of a ton of money to play with in the big free agent market.
I’m a conflicted Bulls fan….very conflicted because in this scenario both Deng and Gordon are goners in my mind….which is sad, but it might be the redeeming trade in 2 years to help us (with 2 first round draft picks in the 20’s and our one solid lottery pick and 2 who knows lottery pick in 2010 to keep the building project).
Plus I think a lineup of
Rose
SG fill in/Hinrich/Thabo
Thabo Sefalosha/Tyrus Thomas
Tyrus Thomas/PF signee
Joakim Noah/C signee and likely a resigned rew Gooen since it seems the org is more enamored with _rew than us fans….
It might not be bad….we’re forced to play and see what we have in Tyrus and might even see some more Tyrus at the 3 (which I think he’ll prove he can guard, and he’s more explosive than Deng at moving in the post—something we’ve always wanted to see more from Luol).
Not a “yipee we made a trade” trade, but no real blow em up fire sales are….
I understand the not wanting a division rival to win it all mantra, but I do think the Sczerbiak contract is appealing, and I actually would rather see the Cavs win it all than the other likely appealing expiring and very tradable contract (Raef LaFrentz’s Blazers)…..mostly because I do think as the Cavs C’s get older, so does their chances to be a premier team…..though they will have a tradeable piece with Deng to retain when that happens….
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we did
A similar trade for LaFrentz, then with LMA, Roy, Oden and likely big Bulls (maybe Deng since they’ve been interested in the past—they would just need to add a mediocre PG to be good, or keep Steve Blake) piece tied up, the Blazers are a dynasty for the next 10 years…whereas I think the Cavs are a dynasty for the next 2-3 because eventually Big Z will end his reign, they might not be able to keep Varejao, Wallace already sucks….
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure CAVS can afford to invest in Noc and Deng
due to contracts anyway, unless they have the inside knwledge that Lebron is gone no matter what after his contract is up, and winning now is all that matters.
Otherwise why would they tie up future salary going past 2010 if they think they need that $$ to keep Lebron around Cleveland past 2010? Luol and Noc extend past that point…
Press the trade button. At this point no one will be missed!
by BCs71 on Jan 26, 2009 5:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
trading them 2 players who play bron’s position (assuming he’s playing the 3, not the 4 as above) is kinda ridiculous.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Jan 26, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bron
Is just as unstoppable at the 4. And Noc plays more 4 than 5 anyway.
I know this trade isn’t favorable for us because we’d probably suck even worse….but to say LBJ can’t play the 4 (Which he’s been playing more and more of late and is almost more unstoppable there is not ridiculous).
The Cavs too can switch things up and be flexible.
Nocioni to them is an energy/glue guy that really is there in order to allow them to add Luol to their team….
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't mean to imply he can't play the 4
and i certainly think he will more and more as he gets older. i just think of him as a 3 right now at least.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Jan 26, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So do I
And so does he, but I still think overall he wants a title first…and from the Cavs perspective this trade is a no brainer, chalk it up.
It might cause Pax his job unless he’s crystal clear with the plan to JR and communicates enough of it to the fans…and that’s why it’s unlikely, but who knows….he’s in a damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t mode right now anyway, and us Bulls fans know he’s leaning more likely to the damned if he doesn’t, since he doesn’t want to lose his guys.
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If they win it all
Which is more than likely, Lebron will no doubt stay for his hometown club. I really think they have a lead in keeping him as it is already, imagine if the Cavs do whatever they can to get them a championship (and I have no doubt this’ll happen).
Luol too will be very much a tradable asset, so if mgmt is that afraid of the luxury tax (Doubtful for a title team, which they would be) they could part ways with Deng in early 2011 and not bear the full brunt of the tax….
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
worst idea ever
Why it would never happen:
1. deng/nocioni play lebron’s position.
2. deng/nocioni’s contracts make it impossible for them to resign lebron in 2010.
3. when trading talent for expiring contracts it’d be smart to trade outside of your division.
4. We’d be giving the east to our division rivals. Why would we want to give them such a solid lineup?
5. Thabo/Wally at the 3 for the rest of the season? Just awful and I’m a Thabo supporter. They’re both tweeners who are better playing the 2-guard than anything else.
Basically what I’m saying is, I think this is a horrible idea.
by oakdale on Jan 26, 2009 7:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Talent overrides positions
1) Noc plays more 4 these days than the 3 anyway.
2) LBJ can play 2-4 just as effective as the 3, he is completely unstoppable.
3) Talent wins out, especially with good energy guys who want nothing but to add W’s (Deng and Noc hardly are going to cause problems).
4) The Cavs completely upgrade adding Luol and Noc in Sczerbiak’s PT….
5) Cavs have a thin front line as it is, this helps shore it up with LBJ a main 4 (Karl Malone body with MJ like skills)…..unstoppable there, and he can run the point a bit at times….crazy.
6) Maybe they can work out a 3 year $6M/yr deal for Big Z and have him terminate….he lands a +7M in the deal and given his age and injury history that’s not likely going to happen from another team.
From the Bulls. We’re terrible, but get a chance to see what we have. We get a nice draft pick again this year. We have GOBS and GOBS of money to spread around for this offseason (Millsap perhaps?, cuz I don’t think Boozer’s leaving given his injury history until next year)….
We also might do a bit better than we’d think and see what we can do in the future featuring heavy minutes from Tyrus and Noah in our pure development mode.
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if it did happen y wud we be trading the Cavs who will prob win the championship
anyways?
What happens when Kirk comes back?
by Nextgen on Jan 26, 2009 7:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cavs
In my mind aren’t beating the Lakers or the Celtics….they may beat one of the good teams, but not both….they’ll fall just short (Thinner front line and really not quite as deep as either team, Deng adds to that.
Again a blow it up trade that makes us worse isn’t supposed to be a fan favorite trade, but long term it might be something nice for us, since Luol will never be a top 5 player at his position and plays in a position where with our high draft picks, it might do us well to draft anew at a featured spot for talent in this league—the 3, or draft a 4 and slide Tyrus to the 3….
Basically with limited guys we will force the coaching staff to play the development card, and give us 30+ games or so to see what Thabo, Noah, Tyrus can do when given a really consistent role for the season.
We finish with a bottomed out record this year, much better for our team than the 33 wins or so we’re trending….
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why the hell would we help the cavs turn into a perennially championship team?
by brose on Jan 26, 2009 8:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Because
It’s a way to help us get out of the messy contracts we have.
Bulls with the cap space, Rose, and hopefully a developed Tyrus, Noah, draft picks aplenty and gobs and gobs of money for big time free agents to come our way will make us turn this around pretty damn quickly.
As I mentioned we’d have 36-38M locked up in salaries….for next year (With the draft pick)….and we still have HInrich and Hughes which we can think about trading……
THat will give us money aplenty to make a run at a Bosh, Wade and a very good secondary guy (maybe make a run for big money at Bosh, and lesser money for the then what 32 year old Ginobili over a lesser time (Ginobili is a guy who if he decides to leave the Spurs will likely get caught in the market, and with his injury issues and age, perhaps he’s a guy they let go).
Bulls make a run for Bosh and for instance Manu (Though there will be others—as only so many teams wil have the room and I don’t think we can afford Bosh and Wade with Rose and T2 and Noah possibly still on the horizon…..
Bulls have 2 years to keep on the development cycle and maybe start a lineup similar to
Rose-Ginobili-Tyrus-Bosh-Noah with Thabo and whomever we get for Kirk, and our draft picks in place (the 2 from the Cavs, heck maybe just the one from the Cavs, and the 2 likely picks the Bulls will get, both on the high end)…
I know that both Bosh and Ginobili might be a pipe dream, so maybe it’s Bosh for the Max and Mike Miller for a $5-6M 3 yr deal…..someone’s going to get caught in that market….
by majoyenrac on Jan 26, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would the Cavs want Noc as a glue guy tough backup PF, they already have Varejao who has the actual size to guard PFs, is a way better rebounder, and is more effective besides 3pt shooting?
Also the Cavs are very high on Hickson who is going to be their starting PF for the next 10 years…he’s very good. So they won’t trade him.
The Cavs can beat the Celtics in a series already. They took them to 7 games last year and they have a way deeper lineup this year.
Their front court of BigZ(outside shooting), Varejao and Wallace(hustle, defense, rebouding) and Hickson(inside post scoring skills) are the perfect combination for a championship team.
The Lakers have Gasol/Bynum/Odom/Mihm….more star power but not very deep…Odom’s not a real frontcourt player, he’s an oversized SF.
Celtics have Perkins/Brown/Garnett/Powe
Cavs have the edge on frontcourt depth and play the best D and have the best player in the game so I think they’ll take it this year. They will def. beat the Celtics in 6….the Finals against the Lakers might be more difficult though.
by C Smoove on Jan 27, 2009 2:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We'll
See come June. Cavs are still missing a piece. And Garnett/Perkins alone is better than the Cavs, Powe is a nice 3rd piece.
Don’t get me started on the Lakers. Both teams can play their starters 35+ MPG and do quite well.
Cavs get Noc in order to get Deng. Noc isn’t imperative, Deng is a very good player far better than wip Hickson…..Noc ain’t a bad glue guy. Varejao likely is bolting from the Cavs after having a nice season so far (player option). THey can’t really assume Big Z will make it through the season/playoffs…..and we all know about Big Ben.
THe Cavs may beat either one of the Magic-Celtics but I don’t think they’ll beat both and the Lakers or SPurs…..I know they took the Celtics to 7 games, but the Celtics were playing like shit to start off the playoffs last year, finally getting back to how they played in the finals. They now have that experience, and are still the favorites with KG-Pierce-Allen being better than Lebron-Mo….
by majoyenrac on Jan 27, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take the Cavs anyday over the Celtics. They will definitely beat the Celtics no doubt. Powe is nowhere near effective as he was last year. Deng plays SF as does LeBron. LeBron can play some 4 but trust me the majority of his minutes are still gonna be at the 3 spot. If the Cavs go for a missing piece, it will be for a big shooting guard like a Vince Carter.
by C Smoove on Jan 27, 2009 9:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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