Should the Raptors trade Bosh?

by bull83 on Jan 20, 2009 12:11 PM CST

This is not a trade proposal. Just one thing that I read from Sam Smith last column on Bulls.com. At some point, Sam reveals one theory from Chuck Swirsky. Swirsky suggested that the Raptors should trade Bosh.

One of the biggest rumors of late has been the talk of a Jermaine O'Neal trade to Miami for Shawn Marion. It's conceivable as the Raptors want to get rid of O'Neal since he's been—as predicted by many—hurt frequently and without much explosion anymore. Marion has just a year left on his deal, and Miami would get rid of Marcus Banks and his deal through 2010-11. The Raptors, now 10 under .500 after a Sunday home loss to the Suns, are entering desperation territory and it's been said general manager Bryan Colangelo is working Pat Riley hard for the deal. Riley would also have to face that he traded Shaquille O'Neal to take on Jermaine, who makes more money and isn't as effective as Shaq. I find it difficult to believe Miami would do that. But you never know in the NBA. The Raptors have done a poor job trying to get wing players, and even though he is poor in a half court game, Marion would help them. The Raptors are one of several teams fearing the return of an injured player as Andrea Bargnani has settled into a starting four/five spot and with Chris Bosh, Jermaine O'Neal is, at best, now a reserve. So leaks have come out of Toronto of alleged trade possibilities alternatively for Lamar Odom or Josh Howard. Actually, I was most intrigued by a passing thought by my colleague at Bulls.com, Chuck Swirsky. Chuck was in Toronto for a decade and is plugged in there. I haven't talked to him about it, but he suggested perhaps the Raptors should trade Bosh. It's a theory I've heard around the NBA amidst rumors that Bosh is upset with the personnel moves in Toronto and will leave. You occasionally hear the same theory involving players like Amare Stoudemire, that the team may not be able to keep them so why not cash them in for a big package now and rebuild? Because if you lose them—and especially in a place like Toronto, where it's difficult to attract free agents—you're virtually starting over. Teams basically never do that as there's usually less public criticism if a player walks on you, like with Shaq and Orlando, than if you make a bold move first. And it's rare when the team getting the better player doesn't improve more. The risk for taking on Bosh, of course, is that he can leave after next season. So how much can you give up? But if you are willing to take a risk, he'd be a huge coup, say for a team with the potential to add players, like the Pistons. Say they offer some young bigs, expiring deals and a few players and draft picks. With Bargnani and Calderon, the Raptors could be competitive and exciting in the East right away with the right package. Would they take a package from a team like the Bulls of players like Thabo Sefolosha, Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah and Kirk Hirrich? If you put a player like Bosh on the market, then you'd really have interest. There's no indication they are doing that. But it might be a heck of a move. And after all, your team is 10 games under now. Where are you going?

I went to the trade machine, and saw that the deal, as Sam says, doesn't work. Too much money going to the Raptors. But if we include Parker or Kapono, the deal works. Do you guys think it's worth a shot or this it's just bullshit?

I don't see the Raptors trading Bosh. But like Sam says, "you never know in the NBA"

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 20, 2009 12:15 PM CST reply actions

Toronto has little going for it

It’s in Canada, not the biggest basketball market out there. Bosh won’t stay, so why not try to get something out of it?

If John Paxson were a Greek hero he would be known as Sans Testicles

by wennington4 on Jan 20, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions

That is what makes me wonder

Plus: in 2010 they can lose Bosh for nothing. But Bosh is their best player. And we know teams don’t trade their best players. Unless they demand a trade, of course

by bull83 on Jan 20, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions

A few clubs

are going to have to commit to ignoring or playing a teeny tiny role in the Summer of 2010.

I don’t know which team does it first, but once one does I think you’ll see other teams start to follow. It’s hard to believe there would be so many teams with vacancies and cash just waiting for a superstar to fall into their lap.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jan 20, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions

I think

A lot of the superstars will be caught in the incredibly great market….

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions

he has to at least stay for next year

trading him is basically killing the franchise.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 20, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

But

If he stays until the summer of 2010 and leaves won’t the Raptors be dead-er?

If John Paxson were a Greek hero he would be known as Sans Testicles

by wennington4 on Jan 20, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions

Whatever they could get for him, wouldn't re-build the team enough to matter

Best case scenario they become an annual 8th seed. They’re better off starting over after desperately trying to put good players around him the next 12 months.

by CJ Bulls on Jan 21, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions

or do a sign-and-trade w/ him, to get good draft picks

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Jan 21, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions

I'd say they're equally dead.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 21, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions

Should they

Absolutely Not. But man oh man if they would……
Here’s what I’d offer=

Bulls trade: Gooden (expiring), Nocioni (wanted and better than their wings), Hughes (next year expiring); Tyrus THomas (their future, but for Bosh I’d say yes), Thabo Sefalosha and next year’s unguaranteed first round pick).

Bulls get: Parker (having a bad year, not great, not really needed, expiring for possibly Gorodn room if we decide that’s what we want (and with Rose-Gordon-Deng-Bosh, why the f not), Jason Kapono—the Raptors freaking huge mistake, just an awful player, but he can shoot the 3 well…..he expires for us after this year. Joey Graham, he doens’t need to play here and expires, and of course Chris Bosh.

We have to give a lot to get a GREAT freaking awesome Great player, but Bosh is just that and he’s young…..we’d have to then figure out a way to resign him, but let that worry come later. If the team’s good enough, who knows Bosh might stay for a bit of a discount, and Reinsdorf might be mroe included to go over the tax.

I would think a Rose-Gordon-Deng-Bosh-Noah with Hinrich (maybe he’s our trade for cap relief guy, unless this lineup which at the face of it is awesome wins in 2 years), Parker (he could be a nice guy off the bench, but I don’t know why he’s playing like complete shit this year, so maybe I’m wrong), who care’s he’s gone in 2 years, and I bet we’d get some real veteran talent, not ruff em up Ruffin……to add.

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions

Remember #24?

Kobe wanted to be a Bull, but the Buss family just sent him to Colorado for a relaxing weekend..

If John Paxson were a Greek hero he would be known as Sans Testicles

by wennington4 on Jan 20, 2009 12:34 PM CST reply actions

Bosh, Rose, TT

would be so sick! Instant contender for many many years to come (if CB resigned with us). No way Toronto does it. Not a chance in a million years…

by Bulls4Ever on Jan 20, 2009 12:41 PM CST reply actions

Bosh

Rose, Deng would be more sick (Bosh and Tyrus are both PF’s….and I don’t think would work as well to coexist, and I think given Tyrus’s age, upside, recent play, athleticism and contract he’s more tradable.

OF course if Deng was a piece they’d want, I’d rather have Deng part than Tyrus….as I think Tyrus could be a SF in this league, we’ve just been grooming him otherwise….

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions

Deng this past

week is great but lets see him do this for a season before we can count on him. IMO I think TT would be sick next to CB regardless is you see them both as PF’s. They are both very athletic, long, made hops,

I mean wtf we start Gooden at Center now when he’s healthy

by Bulls4Ever on Jan 20, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions

I'd like that too

But Deng is more consistent and makes a lot of $$, that I bet the Raps might like to take their chances on Tyrus….

Though the upside is much much much better with Rose-Bosh-T2….

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions

Deng is here

to stay IMO. I think Rose, sg, deng, TT, and Bosh could and would do major damage. Imagine if we got Wade then in 2010. WOWSERS!

by Bulls4Ever on Jan 20, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions

Even JR

would pay for that. Thats a tax worthy squad!

by Bulls4Ever on Jan 20, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions

This idea has been out there for a few months, and imo, yes.

No way he’s staying in Toronto and they should be aware of that and cash in before they ultimately lose out.

by smash! on Jan 20, 2009 1:04 PM CST reply actions

they lose out either way

they’re not getting anything for Bosh that makes it worthwhile. tanking for rookie contracts and draft picks is only appetizing to draft-sniffers. Real paying fans won’t like it at all.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 20, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions

All the options look bad for Toronto

Bosh is my dark horse to be moved this season.

To open the season I thought they’d be competitive early. They were. Then one wheel came up flat. Then it fell off the bus. Now they look a lot like we did last season. High expectations, a roster built to compete, and then a coaching change, and now floundering in and out of games they should easily win at home.

I think Bosh is a lot like Gasol. He’s a great player, but he gets really freaking stinking awesome great when you put him next to other talented players. I think Bosh has defensive skills you can unleash if you put him with the right personnel and coaching philosophy.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jan 20, 2009 1:22 PM CST reply actions

So did I

It hought they would be VERY good and a real dark horse….

The wings didn’t and haven’t performed at all, nor has O’Neal.

O’Neal gets a lot of the brunt of it (And injury deservedly so), but their wings are atrocious either way, whish is surprising. I thought the shooting of Parker and the slashing of Moon with the passing of Calderon and the complete greatness of Bosh, all they needed was a 15-18 pts 7-12 board perf with good D from O’Neal to be really good….but their wings collapsed and O’Neal collapsed…..

It really backfired.

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions

They might have to

I don’t see them making a move after they traded for JO. The Marion trade would be a lose for The Heat, they would gain an injury prone over paid Forward/Center and lose the cap space they have next summer. If I were the Bulls I would clean house Gooden, Hughes,Gordan and picks. Bosh would sign long term with us, 3rd largest Market, Young Point God in the making. He would do it.

by Bullsfanla on Jan 20, 2009 1:24 PM CST reply actions

If we can trade Gordon....

I don’t really get the whole bird rights thing…..so I didn’t include him.

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions

This works

Bulls send Gooden, Hughes and 09, 10 1st round draft picks

Raptors send Bosh, Kapono

our starting 5 looks like this

PG Rose
SG Heinrich
SF Deng
PF Tyrus
C Bosh

Toronto looks like

PG Calderon
SG Parker/ Hughes
SF Grahm
PF Gooden/ JO when healthy
C Bargnani

In my opinion for basketball to work in Canada they need to go Global and draft more foriegn players. Young kids from the hoop or main street us won’t want to play there unless the are insured winning the title.

by Bullsfanla on Jan 20, 2009 1:39 PM CST reply actions

Too little

For the Bulls perspective.

We’d need to include likely Gordon (though I don’t htink the bird rights help), Deng (possbily but the BYC hurts) and most likely Tyrus Thomas….

And I love Thomas, but for Bosh, I’d trade him…

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

This makes the Raptors

unbelievably bad.

But since you’re throwing the Raptors all our trash can’t we include Noc too?

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jan 20, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions

Trading him now means the Raptors have no faith in themselves to get better

Which is pathetic. They already traded Vince Carter for spare parts, and what team is going to gut their roster for Bosh?

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 20, 2009 1:49 PM CST reply actions

The Bulls should do it

I know is not going to happen, the Raptors are not that dumb. But what do we have to lose? This might be the only way we can get a superstar. To be honest, I don’t know if we can get one by free agency. The other teams owners don’t give a crap if they pay the luxury tax or not. With JR, there are always some doubts

by bull83 on Jan 20, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=17271977&teams=2821&te=&cash=

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 20, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions

That's about the only thing that would make a little sense for Toronto to pursue

Or maybe something like this. I find it funny that Sam Smith’s the one to throw an idea like this out there after being so vehement that the Bulls had nothing to offer the Lakers in a potential Kobe trade. The Bulls have the same assets that are now worth even less as they were then. Other than Rose, what would the Raptors possibly want from this roster.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jan 20, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions

What's a Boshless club want?

Anything with potential or realized talent on it.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jan 20, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions

We don't have to give up much because

Bosh can walk the summer of 2010, I doubt he gets dealt before the trade deadline. It’s more likely he gets dealt this offseason. If I’m Paxson I would try to swing it on draft day depending on where we land. If we hit the lottery again, then Toronto would have a high pick held hostage for 4 years and the ability to try and recreate their roster.

by Bullsfanla on Jan 20, 2009 1:52 PM CST reply actions

Yeah

But if in magicland, we pulled off one of our trades above (grins) Bosh likely wouldn’t leave if he’s winning……he can make far more money in marketing for a winner in Chi than he’d make leaving or starting over elsewhere.

by majoyenrac on Jan 20, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions

This works

To Chicago: Chris Bosh, Anthony Parker, Jason Kapono
To Toronto: Thomas, Nocioni, Hinrich, Gooden

To Cleveland: Rose, Deng, Sefolosha
To Chicago: LeBron James

by PricanStar on Jan 20, 2009 3:46 PM CST reply actions

You

should be banned for suggesting we trade D Rose. Shame on you..

by Bulls4Ever on Jan 20, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions

Well, I personally dislike LBJ,

but he is one of two players (the other is D. Howard) that could be considered valuable enough (talent AND age) to trade Rose for.

That being said, I hope Rose plays for the Bulls until around the 2024 season.

by Granny Waiters on Jan 21, 2009 7:37 AM CST up reply actions

I hear that

Just when I start turning a corner thinking I like LBJ after the Olympics, he seems to now whine more than ever (not just our game, but the Lakers game right afterwards).

I watched a few Cavs games earlier this year in the “I guess I like LBJ” bubble, but I soured on him during our latest Bulls game, and really soured more ont he Laker game…..I thought he matured a little bit, and while I’m always on Gooden for bad team d, James does not move to help out one bit….he is a decent defender though just because of his physical size, but imagine if he tried a bit more there….

He’s a great player, but I don’t know if I’d want him as much as Wade, Howard, or Paul on our team….Kobe would be nice on our team but being a little older, I ignored him for now…

by majoyenrac on Jan 21, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions

i hate lebron's persona also

but even i’d have to admit i’d take him on the team any day of the week.

but i really hate him.

by Jaina on Jan 21, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions

Me too

Though I dunno. I guess I’d take him on our team any day of the week then try to trade him to Orlando for D. Howard and maybe a draft pick….

Oh I love the dreams….

by majoyenrac on Jan 21, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions

haha.

yeah, i agree that i’d love howard more, even though lebron is “better.” but so rare you get a center like that.

by Jaina on Jan 21, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions

(not to mention he isn't annoying)

by Jaina on Jan 21, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions

Exactly

And I think in 2 years he’ll be better than LBJ anyway and will be LBJ’s current age. He might not get that hype though unless the Magic shock and win this year or next (which given the way they’re playing they might).

D. Howard is the man and still has O holes, fixable O holes….

by majoyenrac on Jan 21, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions

I say we kidnap the DeVos family,

with the Magic trading Howard for Hughes in return for their release. ;)

In Rose We Trust

by Granny Waiters on Jan 22, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions

I would have concerns about Wade's durability, to trade for Rose.

Of course, a Wade-Rose back court would be FREAKING AWESOME.

Paul is an interesting case as he has not been playing at a high level very long – potentially an all time great PG, or possibly merely very good over his career (just like Rose).

In Rose We Trust

by Granny Waiters on Jan 22, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions

Huh? Paul's been playing like an All Star since he came into the league

Last year and this year, he’s been playing like one of the best PG’s ever. Barring injury, there’s little doubt he’s going down as a an all time great.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jan 23, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions

Barry injury indeed.

In Rose We Trust

by Granny Waiters on Jan 23, 2009 5:42 PM CST up reply actions

Toronto

needs to shut it down. No more basketball in Canada they just need to stick with Hockey.

by PricanStar on Jan 20, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions

I'd start with Deng

Since they like him.

Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, and Drew Gooden

for

Chris Bosh, Jason Kapono, and Nathan Jawai

Gets us a big and a shooter. Then we could trade Kirk for a center (Kaman, Pryzbrilla, etc.).

Then we’d get another big in Asik in 2010, and would make a strong run at Artest in free agency this summer to be our starting small forward.

Lose quantity in the front court, but gain a lot in quality.

http://www.dabullz.com

Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on Jan 20, 2009 4:14 PM CST reply actions

because the bulls are soooo interested in reacquiring artest.

by Jaina on Jan 20, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions

Why not?

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 20, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

because they were the first ones to discover he was crazy.

don’t get me wrong, i actually have a soft spot for bonkers ronnie. i just don’t see the bulls trying to get him.

by Jaina on Jan 20, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I think the Bulls would need to get Phil Jackson back

for Artest to work out.

by Granny Waiters on Jan 21, 2009 7:39 AM CST up reply actions

I have a feeling

We will trade Hughes just to get rid of him and not get quality in return. We also won’t make any major moves until the offseason.

by Bullsfanla on Jan 20, 2009 4:47 PM CST reply actions

I wouldn't trade Hughes here

Although, not because I think he is any good as a player. I think you offer a package based around Gordon, Gooden, and/or Nocioni. If we trade for Bosh and for some reason he chooses not to resign with us, having Hughes (and maybe Kapano if we receive him back in the trade) come off the books at the same time as Bosh frees up the cap space necessary to sign a FA to mitigate the loss of Bosh.

by MrPants on Jan 20, 2009 5:02 PM CST reply actions

Gordon would veto a trade to the Raptors.

http://www.dabullz.com

Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on Jan 20, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions

And Kapono has a player option for 2010-11

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jan 21, 2009 8:13 AM CST up reply actions

If the Bulls offered Hinrich, Nocioni, etc.

Bosh won’t be traded. If he were to be traded, Portland would make a huge offer, as they could offer some combination of Aldridge, Outlaw, Bayless, and Fernandez.

by Cablinasian on Jan 20, 2009 5:21 PM CST reply actions

The Raps might pull the trigger if they miss the playoffs

It might be the last straw for CB4.

I kinda hope this trade would happen. It’d be brilliant if we could get our 2010 star a year early. Even if we have to give up some combination of Noah or TT to do it (hope not, 3 of them would make a sick rotation)

by Alighieri on Jan 20, 2009 5:38 PM CST reply actions

I like that offer

But we fail to realize is that if your African American your not trying to make a home in Canada. Most of the nba players are city kids or country kids and they get home sick as well as culture shock. Name one young African American star that the Raps have held on to? I’ll wait …….

Plus they tax half of your income with is something these young players won’t be used to and not willing to resign long term for. Jerry is better off getting contracts he can let go and picking up draft picks so he can get talent that will fit his system. Toronto has to go Euro to make in Canada. Let’s face it

by Bullsfanla on Jan 20, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions

not gonna happen

i read the chad for chat today and he seems to think its a legit possibility that he gets moved (but with no specific knowledge of any talks). However, he did suggest Josh Smith and Marvin Williams for Bosh. If Toronto is gonna move him it makes sense. I dont think anyone can give up that much and be competitive enough to sign bosh in 2010. I dont know if Atlanta would do it, but I cant imagine that they would turn it down. A Bosh, Johnson and Horford led team would be much better than what they have.

by rosefromconcrete on Jan 20, 2009 7:47 PM CST reply actions