Bulls 102, Cavs 93 (OT)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 12:56 AM CST
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PrintGlad I stayed up late to watch it, I set the DVR expecting bad things.
What a difference subbing Hinrich in for Hughes (DNP for the 2nd straight game) can make. And Tyrus Thomas for Drew Gooden, for that matter. I always said Tyrus could be a LeBron-stopper. And you all laughed, because it's a dumb thing to say as nobody could stop LeBron. And you were right, it was dumb. But tonight he (and Lu and others) did the job.
Injuries took out the rest of the Cavs, but it's still a good win. Now just need to trade Noc (played the whole 4th and OT again) for more Noah time (must've been real unprofessional between saving the game last night and tonight) and the season can be restarted. With Derrick Rose taking over 4th quarters again and everything.
(anybody catch Vinny's positivity thinking speech to Luol in the 4th? ::sings:: only the Bulls, only the Bulls...)
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Sorry I don't have more, it's late.
quicky: Gordon was bad (6 shots?), still should play at the end. I mentioned the continued Noc-ness. Vinny still stinks. Luol looks better every game. Tyrus didn’t even play great on offense, a lot was on shots he should not be taking (doesn’t matter if he’s given – Given! – minutes). Hinrich +24, wowza. Aaron Gray DNP.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:00 AM CST reply actions
ugh
*quickly, not quicky.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:00 AM CST up reply actions
Tyrus took a couple bad shots
but a few of his ‘bad’ jumpers came w/ 4-5 seconds on the shot clock. There was one miss where he really should have gone to the hoop tho. His shot looked good tho. He and Lu must be practicing together ;)
Well Tyrus is an 80% FT Shooter
That’s given me a lot of hope on his offensive game. I think the kid can shoot (as his FG%’s too are steadily climbing…..
I really think he’s nipping closer….next year perhaps he’ll be there all year, but I think we’ll see a solid 2nd half if given the time….
I have no problem with Tyrus taking jumpshots
in fact, he needs to if he wants to use a full offensive game.
But only when he gets it while faced up and steps in and shoots it. When open. And he doesn’t have an alternative of going to the rim. It’ s not that select a criteria, as a PF those situations can happen a lot.
Last night there were a couple that he dribbled into, or even the dreaded step-back variety.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
but but
he hit that step-back jumper and even got some love from Reggie Miller for it!
the and-1
one was the one where reggie was like “i like that aspect of his game.” it was actually refreshing to hear someone say that unlike stacey and neil who are always like “OMG TYRUS SHOULD NEVER SHOOT!!!!”
by Jaina on Jan 16, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
it was
for guys who watch every game, its amazing how stacy and neil manage to have the same understanding as a casual fan off the street.
I think some of that though
is they have to try first to appeal to the casual fan off the street….
Stacey talks a better talk when he’s on the radio commenting on the team….at least the 2-3 times I’ve heard him on Mac, Jurko and Harry I thought he was much more real….
I love that he hit it too
but I don’t want him thinking he can always hit it. He’s not even at a good enough % in the ‘rhythym’ variety for my tastes.
But this is from the perspective of actually expecting things from Tyrus.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
I think he shoots a LOT better
when he doesn’t hesitate.
Having worked on my jumper over the past two years [and assuming, rightly or wrongly, that there’s some correlation between working on a jumper no matter what the skill level], when you hesitate it really screws with the timing and everything.
I think he can consistently hit that jumper. It looks smooth coming out, at the very least.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Do you always have to complain about something
Clearly the lineup that was in there worked. If Gordon was in the game, who should have have been taken out? Rose? +24 Hinrich? 3 guard lineup with Deng out (who was a major part of the victory)? Didn’t you also complain about Noah being out? I assume you wanted to keep Tyrus in too.
Face it, Gordon not being on the floor was the right call. What was illustrated to me was how much more effective Hinrich is than Hughes. Also, I don’t see how we can keep both Gordon and Hinrich. Gordon won’t re-sign with us if he’s on the bench for Hinrich late in games, and Hinrich makes too much and plays too well to sit him. I’d rather trade Hinrich, since if Gordon leaves, the Bulls get nothing back.
I'd rather trade Hinrich too
pretty much even if Gordon leaves. But I did at least take a look this morning to consider Gordon trade possibilities. I think there actually are a few. I don’t think he’d turn down a trade to a team that projected to be well under the cap next year, and hence, could re-sign him. Which teams are those?
1. Atlanta. A sign and trade for Josh Childress? Gordon could help the replace Bibby and play off Joe Johnson?
2. Memphis. Probably too crummy.
3. OKC. Do we want anything back they have?
4. Portland. Although Bayless dropped 23 points in 25 minutes last night.
5. Miami?
De gustibus non est disputandum
I guess I'm on the fence
Hinrich’s looked really good for our offense the past few games…..I know he’s not a prototypical 2 by any stretch, but he’s a better than avg defender on the 2 spot, and a good defender in general…..
Plus he’s a bargain……as a starter….
I don’t know. I think Ben’s the better player, but again I don’t want to overpay with Deng.
I’m so confused…
I think maybe now Kirk is the 2 with Rose because we can do the 2 PG attack (Switch the PG duties every few positions).
While Kirk isn’t a prototypical 2, Rose isn’t a prototypical 1 either (with his athleticism and slashing abilities)….
I know the more classic 1-2 is Rose-BG, but if our offense continues to click with Cap’n Kirk, who knows. Our offense has looked much better since he’s real return….thoguh it’s only been 2 real games, and I’m a big BG supporter…..
I like Gordon, I like HInrich, I’m on the fence….wishy washy majoyenrac.
"Gordon won’t re-sign with us if he’s on the bench for Hinrich late in games"
well, that’s pretty much my point. Big picture is more important than Kirk’s +/- in a single game.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
and when Gordon was out in the 4th
for 4 minutes near the end, the Bulls had 2 points. That’s when ‘ball movement!!’ turns into just a scoring drought. I thought they could’ve used him.
(to be fair that stretch could’ve had more points if Rose doesn’t miss two FTs)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
The problem though
Is that that scoring drought happened with 4 minutes left (After being more solid with 12-4 minutes left)….
The fear there is when BG’s been sitting a while and comes in with so little time left after sitting as long as he has, that he has the tendency to come in and play jack em up savior.
It woul dhav ebeen better perhaps to put him in with the 7-8 minute mark, but when the offense looked so solid at that time frame, It hink Vinny was best to try to keep it going……as the D was there and often when Gordon’s in jack em up save the team roles THAT late in a game after sitting as long as he does, he puts all the effort on O and lapses on D….if the shots fall, it works, but if not (and they weren’t) it’s less so.
I like BG normally more in the 4th in those close game situations, he’s more than effective, but he’s better served coming in for the last 8 minute stretch than the last 4, unless we’re really needing a spark and are down by 8-10 pts with a need for O….
Essentially normally Matt, I agree 100%, but not quite last night’s game…..one of the few games where the play your best talents mantra didn’t apply because the lesser’s were doing a very good job with the flow of the offense.
I don't want Gordon
As fans we need to think about 2010 and clearing cap space to make a run at Bosh or Amare, don’t need Gordon’s multi-year on the books.
Yeah
But we might be able to trade Deng if that circumstance presents itself….esp next year whent eh BYC goes away….
I don’t know, it’s hard to be Pax right now…..even if Pax hasn’t been doing a good job, it’s hard to be him right now…..there’s arguments for any of the former big 3 to stay (Deng-Kirk-BG)…
I disagree
I think Vinny did a solid job yesterday, first time in a while…..I liked the motivational thing, and his talk about not overpassing (which did work there for a while as we went on a run of overpassing and overpassing and overpassing).
I agree to an extent on the BG at the end talk, especially normally, but I think yesterday Vinny went with the guys who were working/clicking, rather than just reverting to the normal guys because they’re typically better mode, and I htink it paid off in the end.
Wait, now they're overpassing? I thought you told us all yesterday that excessive ball movement was a good thing
Or were you just harping on that as another reason to validate keeping Kirk?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
What?
THey had a stretch in the game yesterday where we were “overpassing” in that we were trying to make easy passes look really flashy….bad choice of words I guess in my thoughts….
Ball movement is the key to this offense.
I think perhaps I used the wrong term/should have been more specific.
Ah, I think I understand what you're getting at, they were just trying to get fancy
To me, overpassing is a player making that extra pass at the expense of an open shot or potential drive to the lane of their own that does not put the team in an even better position to score.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
the Chris Duhon special
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
HE KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THE GAME
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Gordon with five points on six shots.
Yet the Bulls score over 100…
I guess his scoring is replaceable after all.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by an extra period!
D2.0: also replaceable.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
1 game>>>>>>>5 seasons of undeniable evidence
LeBron couldn’t find a jumpshot last night, what a bum trade his ass for Leandro Barbosa.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Last night,
Leandro couldn’t find his jumper either!
LOL!
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Kirk Hinrich for LBJ?
He was pretty awesome last night.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
TYRUS THOMAS THE LEBRON STOPPER
YAY Lets all hope he becomes the lebron stopper. then trading la for him can finally be justified!
He truly does have the size/quickness to make it even possible
plus quick hands, as shown on that one strip.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:12 AM CST up reply actions
quickness yes.
athleticism is there. but size is questionable. i think he needs to pack on a little more muscle before he can fully challenge the likes of lebron on a consistent basis but man oh man imagine if we could turn him into a defensive stopper to use on kobe lebron etc.
well nobody has the actual combination
else they’d be LeBron themselves. But who else is big enough to play the 4 who can move like Thomas?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
wasnt thomas scouted as a 3/4
it would be interesting to see him at the 3 once we get a real post player i think. and he has the potential to get close to that combination.
Skiles and B#*&%!@
kept putting him in at the 3. He was awful.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan
by bennythebull on Jan 16, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
He's dramatically improved
The numbers perhaps don’t say it given the tough early stint, but watching T2, he’s dramatically improved his D and more importantly his shooting stroke year over year….night and day.
He used to just be this little raw energy guy with a myriad of very raw skills who occasionally would amaze with the athleticism.
Now he seems to be a bit of a player (still inconsistent) but one who can do things that others in the league cannot…..if he can keep the consistency of his game, he’ll be damn good. He’s losing a lot of that rawness, now just needs consistency, the talent is blossoming (a slow blossom, but blossoming).
I like Thomas
I was referring to him playing the 3. He has the potential to be a very good 4. His speed, athleticism, and ballhandling are well above average for that position. When you move him to the 3 he becomes much more average (maybe even below average in some of those categories) and doesn’t have very good range for a small forward. His jump shot, even as is, is acceptable for a power forward.
If TT can ever seem to keep his head in the game he has the potential to be damn good.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan
by bennythebull on Jan 16, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Vinny I though had a decent game having TT collapse on James.
He also mixed it up like he said he would with Deng, Thomas, Sefo and Noah but that was a mistake.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 16, 2009 1:17 AM CST up reply actions
i dont see why we had to collapse on him
the way he was playing tonight i wouldve given him all the room he wanted to shoot jump shots all night
thats why your not a coach..
in the NBA.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 16, 2009 1:20 AM CST up reply actions
youre*
lebron was horrible. give him the damn jumper. dont let him get in the lane and pick up cheap easy points at the line
If you back off of Lebron
all you do is give him a running start to the basket. Plus Lebron can make that shot. The reason he did badly today is very good defense from Luol + plenty of collapsing help from teammates + referees actually calling traveling and charges.
If seems like you think that Lebron just happened to be not scoring.
Actually...
According to Lebron, he was sick with a cold… Maybe its just an excuse (MJ was still a monster when he was sick!) or maybe we got lucky and caught them on a down night….
“I absolutely had no lift tonight,” said James, who was playing with a cold. "Every time that happens, when I get sick, I miss layups — layup after layup, things I usually make.
I don't know
He had the lift. He was P.O.‘d all game. He’s not going to say, ya know I had a bad game, not with his ego.
by majoyenrac on Jan 16, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LeBron to Phoenix in 2010
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
meh
I’d scheme defense to bait James into going into the post to try to make things happen as he drains the shot clock.
He’s far more deadly on the perimeter in a high screen situation where the spacing for his shooters can really happen. Down in the post takes away shooting real estate and tightens the passing lanes out of the post.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 7:52 AM CST up reply actions
James is unstoppable
in the post, keep him outside….
Inside he can dunk over you if you lose him for a tenth of a second, or forces the D to collapse and he can easily past to the shooters outside because of his athleticism and amazing passing ability.
I thought the team defense was really good yesterday and guys actually switched, and that’s something we haven’t done really all year….and that was the biggest key to a win.
not to mention
in the post james is bound to get an and 1 play. I rather him hit a 20fter fadeaway or try his luck from beyond the arch with a hand in his face…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
on that last posession
he was terrible. Waited until 4 seconds to make his move, at which point you knew he wasn’t going to make a move, just a fadeaway 22 footer. Like he wouldn’t have gotten a call if he just barreled in the lane? Though to Vinny’s credit Noc wasn’t in the game at that point.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, not sure what was going through his head
unless he was convinced he was going to be hit with a traveling call or something.
hes gotta be more diciplined too
the guys jumps on almost every pump fake looking for that monster block
Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens
Trade Tyrus?
The last six weeks have been the most consistent of his career. He is finally contributing on a regular basis. Why trade him now?
I know I haven’t been frequenting the board of late, but do people still actualy watch the games before they post?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
the post said this could justify trading for him in the first place
But in general, yes, the ‘Trade Thomas NOW’ thread got recommended, so for 2 weeks it will openly mock everyone who arrives at this site with a brain.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
My mistake. I thought the post was (very inarticulately)
call for Tyrus to be traded to Los Angeles.
Now I see that it was a LaMarcus Aldridge reference.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on Jan 16, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
Ahh it's the dreaded trade zone!!!
“He sucks, we should trade him”
Response: You can’t trade him now, his value is low. Wait for him to pick it up a bit
“Great! He’s playing better now, let’s move him”
Response. You can’t trade him now, he’s just starting to come around. Imagine if he keeps improving!
Except
I think the guys saying “We can’t trade him now” were the same guys saying we can’t trade him for the upside…..
It’s just that now we got those who were like why keep him’s eyes/ears….
You can't be serious.
TT has done nothing to outside of the ordinary. Now he looks like he can play on the court, instead of hopelessly lost. Congrats Tyrus, you’re now an average NBA player. And to think you mock the Hinrich fans.
He's 22
And his athleticism, ball handling, shooting, defense, blocking shots, and rebounding and agression are gradually getting less and less raw and he’s getting better and better.
Trading him will be a VERY BAD MOVE…..think Tyson Chandler for PJ and what became Adrian Griffin dumb x 500%.
Dude’s 22, and has been improving….athletic players with his vast array of skills on both ends (he’s not dominant on either, but has bits and pieces of both) are a real rarity.
We’d be very dumb to trade Tyrus.
Said the Grizzly fan about Stromile
Or the Clipper fan about DMiles
Or the Pistons fan about Darko
Or the Rockets fan about Eddie Griffin
Or the long list of busts. With TTs atheticism he will have good games. It’s the big picture where there’s a problem. I’m not saying he can’t work out, just that it’s unlikely. Let’s put his development on someone else and get something for him while we still can.
The guy had 15pts and 7reb in 37 min!!!
And it was one of his best games of the year. 3 games previous to this, an average of 24 minutes, 5pt and 3reb. Everyone needs to put down their blinders and hope TT gets on Sportscenter enough he proves a valuable trade asset.
Don't forget about your blinders.
By game score it was his 9th best game of the year. 9th out of 37 isn’t eactly the end of the bell curve, especially since he played less than 10 minutes in 6 of those games. This wasn’t a slightly above average performance for Tyrus, and if he gets consistent playing time 15 and 7 will eventually just be an average performance.
So his per minute
averages of 14pts and 9 rebounds per 40 minutes have you excited?
With the actual defense he plays?
Sure!
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
It isn't about the stats
His defense was awesome. Tyrus ain’t a major offensive force, but showing he can contribute there is solid.
He needs more time on the court before any numbers show up, and many of his strengths on D don’t show besides the blocks….
He does need to improve his spacing/timing for boards…
stay in your corner!
it’s on the top right. For a few more days, anyway. That is where irrational idiocy regarding Tyrus goes to live and die. Not in the normal threads.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
All we have to do is wait
Tyrus right now ain’t costing us too much and he’s really starting to get it together…
It’s an inexpensive way to try out and Tyrus is showing a lot more on the good games than any of those above….plus he has D to go with the O and is more D oriented.
Why put the development (which we’ve invested in on anyone else). Bulls aren’t winning it this year regardless and we have a good 2 years before Rose is there….
no, I mock CJ Bulls
that guy hasn’t improved since he joined the blog.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep waiting
any day now I swear he’ll be good. It’s so annoying. I know it’s a natural inclination to stay positive about the guy, but there’s so much evidence to support it isn’t happening.
Teams haven’t even begun gameplanning for him. The play is just stay in front of him and make him shoot. TT hasn’t made it past the first stage of development, figure out what you do well and apply it on the court.
Why is it
natural to say “well he’ll get better”. We haven’t done that with many of our other guys.
Even Noah who I think will be better, is a guy I think we can trade….
Tyrus, no though.
Tyrus Jan Numbers
Remember, he just needs to play a lot consistently.
Last 13 games….average of 29 minutes per game
10.4pts
6.1reb
1.4st
2blk
Is it too late to write him in for the All-Star Game?
still waiting for that CJBulls improvement
he’s trying sarcasm, it’s not really part of his game because he’s not smart…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
I really appreciate your scouting ability,
but ignoring all statistics is kind of pathetic. All you have left to do is insult.
again
I don’t ignore all statistics. Just the ones you pull. Because you’re completely off base when talking about Thomas. It’s a character flaw at this point.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
You mean stats
like points and rebounds. Those are crazy. I should stick to the ones that support Tyrus.
He’s shooting free throws really well!! He had 8 blocks in one game!!!
I blame you
you had a chance to package him for an all-star poster and you couldnt pull the trigger, just dump this guy to some other sports nation blog otherwise you wont be able to get anything other than a typical “First!” commenter.
by reprisal on Jan 16, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
He did anyone read my post at noon?
I’m going to say it right now then Bulls win
by 13. Why? I have no idea….I just want a win so bad.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 15, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, keep making predictions
(kidding, don’t)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:17 AM CST up reply actions
Bulls make the playoffs.
Nocioni doesn’t get traded. Hughes traded for garbage.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 16, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions
c's get knocked out first round too
we’re going finals baby.
where we play utah and rose hits a gamewinner at the energy solutions arena in game 6
KG flips out on Noce's defense and punches his lights out.
Gets suspended. Lakers win Game 1 with KG out.
But
Noc doesn’t get hurt and keeps playing…..and KG keeps hitting Noc and Noc doesn’t go down.
Noc might play a bit dirty, but I still think he plays and is tougher than KG. Just because he doesn’t bark like a dog on all fours at you, doesn’t mean the man doesn’t play through adversity…
KG is a bitch... Anthony Peeler punched him in the face when he got in Peeler's face
and KG just took it and backed down.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 16, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
This one could be a good sig.:)
General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.
by Azabullsfan on Jan 16, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Whatever
Noc plays on 1 leg, gets hammered far more than KG and keeps coming.
Seriously, I can see some of the ire on Noc, but to call him out as not being tough is ridiculous.
KG gets hammered and he whines and cries until the series of fouls get called for his way.
Noc gets hammered hard EVERY PLAY, and while complains a bit, he doesn’t stop, 1 leg or not.
That post is ridiculous. KG’s mouth is tougher than KG….KG just happens to be a great player, where Noc ain’t got nothing at all on KG.
Since when does Noc get hammered on every play?
I didn’t say he wasn’t tough, but his toughness is overrated.
Half of that reputation comes from cheap, unnecessary hard fouls.
What?
Seriously. Noc gets hammered a ton, guys don’t like his antics and know he doesn’t have a good rap with the refs so they hack him quite a bit.
I cannot believe you can be so blinded as to call Noc soft….
His reputation comes from plays like he’s done with the Bulls playing injured, or the big forearm to the face no calls, or like the block on Kobe at the Olympics where Noc was limping all over the court but playing on that 1 leg and blocked of all folks Kobe….
I wish we could show that play, it’s not on Youtube because of the Olympic coverage rules.
Seriously, disagree all you will on liking him or disliking him for our team (he’s not perfect and makes too much $$) but to not call him tough is ridiculous.
Don't make stuff up to fit your argument
I didn’t say Noc was soft, I said his toughness is overrated.
JeffD
“Fake tough” implies soft….
I don’t understand your argument….I think you are blind to say Noc ain’t tough. He gets mauled every 3rd game or so, and walks it off.
He rarely sits (And actually plays injured a bit too much for my liking). But he plays and plays hard.
Fake tough relates to his hacking
As I said, a lot of his reputation for being tough comes from hard fouls, which I think are in many instances cowardly.
There are plenty of players that get hit a lot more than Noc.
Hard fouls are cowardly?
I knew my olkd coach was spouting nonsense when he told us hard fouls were better than giving guys an open lane to the basket.
Damn straight!
One of the reasons Noce sucked big time this year is the man just refuses to heal up. He’s got all sorts fo injuries, plays to help the team, ends up hurting the team and he still goes out there trying to make up for it.
We all agree he sucked (and still does). But let’s not be blind to what he brings to the table (yeah, yeah, intensity, grit, guts) all those stuff that doesn’t really count.
Remember that Clippers game when Noce hammered Patterson?
Then Kaman and Tim Thomas deliberately and maliciously whacked the shit out of Noce? And he calmly hit four foul shots without complaining?
At least noce went hard for the ball (and ended up getting Patterson’s face and neck).
Thomas and Kaman didn;t even go for the ball, they just tackled him.
Maybe toughness is just playing consistently well all the time
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Vinny is definitely still a dumbass, but right now he is doing things that I thought he
wasn’t capable of, particularly banishing Larry Hughes. Even though everybody on the planet knew it had to happen, I had serious doubts about Vinny actually doing it. Also I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the way he played BG tonight. I think it needs to be like that more often. Not quickly of course, but given the nature of Ben’s game (shooting a lot of jump shots) I don’t see a problem with sitting him on the bench when it’s apparent he doesn’t have it.
I thought that was cool what he said to Deng and when he was in the huddle.
He told Rose no TO’s that was sweet.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 16, 2009 1:24 AM CST up reply actions
national tv does wonders for these people.
vinny knew he was being closely watched by everyone so he had to be “smart” on national tv
B.S.
Give the guy some credit, we did beat the best team recordwise in the league….and what we saw was a solid coaching job for once.
I mean Vinny has a lot of consistentcy to learn, but he can do a nice job at times, esp when the team’s playing well (which we were).
We beat the Cavs
but it took:
1)home game
2)overtime
3)missing D. West and Ilgauskas
4)worst game of the season from Lebron.
VDN coached well, but the win wasn’t exactly earth shattering.
Defense...
West scored 11 pts in a hurry, last I looked he avg’s 12 pts….he probably got the majority of his points and was headed for some less aggressive and misses….
We had one of Ben Gordon’s least aggressive and worst games of the year.
We had about 43 minutes of inferior Rose, before Rose did things down the stretch that helped us win…..we normally don’t win with that.
Our Defense (especially team D, which has been nonexistant all year, was there).
I’ll give you home game, but a lot of the other things were nullified by solid D and our 2 best players (Gordon and Rose) having mostly off nights.
So whose more important to having an off night
Rose/Gordon or Lebron?
Lebron
But Lebron’s off night wasn’t just missing jump shots that were open (Rose) or not being aggressive and forgetting to play D (Gordon), he was off because of the pressure mostly….
Did you watch the game or are yuo just commenting on the box score?
Luol's and TT's length and quickness seemed to bother LBJ,
and kept him out of the paint on several drives.
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
why do you think West was slowing down?
looked to me a lot more like he was preping to be the one having a career night. He was abusing both Ben and Hinrich, including on the block. If we had to double him down low and keep track of James it could have been ugly. Or maybe Thabo could have gotten extended burn and slowed him down.
Well that might be true
But he could also have just been hot. I mean he hit a shot or two with Hinrich in his face….
He’s no superstar, and there’s a reason for it. It’s hard to say….
I’d say somewhat that the stats imply perhaps he had a hot streak early….and that’s a little more history than just thinking he might have had a career night.
he had a lot of good looks
he might not be a superstar but he has been an extremely efficient scoring threat this year. More efficient then anyone on our team, except for Kirk(whose TS% is 50% over his career high in his limited minutes this year). Couple that with our history of bad defense as well as him being able to post up on our guards and its not that hard to see him continueing to be effective OR taking focus off of LeBron who we were able to do a nice job on.
Again
Efficient doesn’t mean he was going to stay red hot. He may have….but the stats prove otherwise…..he wasn’t just efficient, he was on fire…..often when guys are on fire that early on, they can’t sustain it all game for 35-40 minutes….that’s what I’m saying.
We’ve seen guys like Curry go off in the 1st and do little otherwise…or Deng quiet in the 4th, or Gordon get going in the 4th….
what stats?
he wasn’t going to shot 70%? shocking…he probably wasnt going to keep scoring a point per minute?…other than that the stats dont prove anything otherwise.
Quantitative and qualitative analysis should be telling you he is a very legit offensive threat and losing him hurt their team, their offense and their bench depth. You cant just say “Oh he was hot, he was gonna cool off anyway so the result is more or less the same.”
I'm saying is that
quantitative analysis might disprove that losing him horribly disrupted the team……as he may have played in the most effective part of his entire game had he played.
There’s a chance he could have kept that play up, but the fact that he was hitting shots with HInrich defendign him hard, shots he’s not prone to hit every game like that, or he’d be a Kobe Bryant, the law of averages tell you he was more apt to slow down.
I’m not saying it didn’t hurt the team, it may have and the way he was starting it could have, but it’s not a “it definately hurt them” and that’s why the Bulls won kind of loss.
and I'm saying
that the law of average is a fallacy and that Delonte West is a notably better player than the people who replaced him and therefore the probability of him producing value(independent of anything he had done to the point he left) in the remaining minutes of the game is higher than the replacements. Seeing as the score was tied after regulation, that very well could be why the Bulls won. That being said I still think its a very good win for the Bulls. Theres no reason to try make it bigger than it is.
Peace
and missing Ben Wallace
usually worth a laugh, but if the replacement is Lorenzen Wright, it’s valid.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
watch out
Now some +/- stat guy is going to say,
Wright was +14 in the game in 21 minutes, had he played 48 he would have been +32!
It was the most watchable and fun game
in a long time. Kudos to the Bulls for finally finding some mojo and reason to play. Great win on paper, but they did beat a Cavs team without a bunch of their starters which takes away a bit of the luster. Lebron was a bit “off”, but I think the Bulls did disrupt him a bit and made a contribution to win. Lebron was off and the Bulls made his night so difficult that he didn’t have motivation to really get himself rolling again.
Best move by the Bulls, however, was breaking a bone in D. West early in the game…
Finally, an ‘exciting’ time for Bulls basketball. A win against the Spurs would be dreaming big, I think, but after the last two games I guess it is as believable as it has ever been this season.
Press the trade button. At this point no one will be missed!
i was just saying the reasoning doesn't make sense
that and from what we’ve heard, vinny ignores his assistants, why would he listen to anyone?
Hmm I dunno 0:
I kept hearing after Vinny started doing matchups that weren’t so dumb that Paxson had a word with him or something to that effect.
But either way I’m just hoping he keeps this up at least the last couple of weeks have been some of the worst coaching I’ve ever seen.
VDN has to listen to Pax if he wants to keep his job.
Or maybe VDN was told who to play by his hair stylist. ;)
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Marv Albert is tired of broadcasting boring Bulls teams
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Told Lu to not get down and to be confident. He said like, lead your guys.
In the huddle he told them to defend and take smart shots.
He also told Rose to push the ball but don’t turn it over. Takes balls if you ask me. Derrick was like mumbling ok.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 16, 2009 2:00 AM CST up reply actions
Actually it was
Don’t give that frustrated look on your face….or something more like that, thinking that Lu’s “I’m frustrated” look would disrupt the team’s spirit.
Happy for Deng last night......but
come on. This is his 5th year in the leauge. I know he’s 23 or 24 but he shouldn’t need Vinny pepping him up. Isn’t he a captain that Vinny was asking to have back to help lead the team?
On to his play last two nights. The most important thing I have seen is his aggressive rebounding. The Bulls team who lacks a real inside presence really needed the 3 and guards to help rebound and he has done that. As for offense, I saw him hit his biggest shots stuck in the corner and if he can hit those shots( Toni Kukoc working on the corner 3 with him) Derrick is gonna get him 6 open corner shots a game.
Um
That’s what coaches do.
That’s what happens.
Guys get in funks, I don’t care how long you’ve been in the league.
I agree he shouldn't need Vinny pepping him up
thus…why is Vinny pepping him up?
I suppose it’s harmless, but just seems cheesy. Between that and Lou Holtz and the motivational posters, you can see why some players would get to eye-rolling.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Deng for 3
huge if he can do that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
You may think it's cheesy but when your playing
in front of 22,000 people and the calls aren’t going your way AND your guarding Lebron James those words can do a lot to help. At least what he said made sense. I recall some of Boylan’s open mic night last season.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 16, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
what'd he say?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
it wasn't even 'don't get frustrated'
it was ’don’t show frustration to your teammates’. There was something else to about being positive. I’m not the type of cool blogger who can get video clips :-/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
I watched basically the entire game
but somehow missed this. Such a shame.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
it was in the 4th quarter
there was another ‘inside traxxxxxxx’ (or whatever) earlier in the game with Vinny in the huddle. Basically saying don’t turn the ball over (this isn’t a shot, I’m all for not much instruction in a huddle). The fun bit was that VDN only referred to LeBron as ‘him’, heh.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Haha, nice.
Thanks…I did catch the one earlier. Pretty basic stuff, but whatever. It’s Vinny.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I want to start Gordon
but he has to at least try and put up shots early in the game. He has to score if he’s giving up buckets at the defensive end as he was last night.
I want Gordon to shoot when he is open, but I want him receiving a pass and then shooting. Run him around some screens. Whatever the early game plan was last night it definitely wasn’t to get the ball to Gordon early to get him going.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 7:55 AM CST up reply actions
Well
West was looking really good though too, and was hitting those shots against Hinrich too (though Hinrich was a little more aggressive on the D)….still that was just an early run for a so-so player who can get hot.
I think Gordon would have played more had the lineup we had not been clicking on all cylanders….
right, I don't care if it hurts the 'selfishness' crowd
Ben should shoot a lot. I don’t like when he’s passive and checks himself out of stints.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
It was interesting to read Sam's take on starting Hinrich,
sort of the opposite of your point. He wants to start Hinrich because it forces Rose to play more aggressive early. He thought Gordon starting slowed Rose down as he became too passive.
Yeah
That’s easy to say when Rose has a nice game with Hinrich next to him. Rose has had more with BG….too early to tell.
I’m on the fence about BG long term. I think ideally he’s our long term answer, but at the same gime with our holes and his game we might be suited to have a good role playing SG who can share some PG duties, and one who’ll be locked up for $2-3M less than BG….
why didn't he do it earlier?
we could’ve known for sure if Thabo stinks. (I’m at 80%)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
‘’This was my worst game of the season,’’ James said. ‘’I was sick tonight. When I get sick like that, I miss layups and put-backs. I had no lift in my legs. It’s tough out there when you can’t breathe. They also did a good job defensively on me.’’
He must go to the Del Negro school of excuse making.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 16, 2009 1:28 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I had no lift in my legs!
For some reason my shot wasn’t going through people’s hands like it normally does, and they kept calling when I took 4 or 5 steps!
WTF is this?!?
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Jan 16, 2009 1:30 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Those traveling calls were shocking
If the refs are calling that a travel now there are going to be a lot more turnovers for the rest of the season. Rose uses the same dribble move. I’ve heard it called the “european travel”. It might be what is being called the crab dribble. The play involves elevating the ball across your chest as you are taking your two steps towards the rim. You actually take 3 steps but the movement of the basketball across your chest disguises the first quick step.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 7:58 AM CST up reply actions
So were the
3-5 phantom foul calls in a row in the 2nd quarter…..that was complete b.s. there….I thought the refs were like "We’re sorry we missed that Noc arm thing that plenty of guys have done to them and can’t complain about because they’re not Lebron James…..especially hypocritical when Lebron was using his off hand to push guys all night (Which Reggie—who I still hate—sorry can’t mention him without having the memory of the bowing in the playoffs) but Reggie was saying, you know the refs can’t see this like we can but Lebron’s going to start getting these offensive fouls called on him….
That 3-5 or so calls int he 2nd quarter in basically a row were garbage…
That Noc arm thing was great
That was such a foul, but that angle blocked it from the view of all three officials.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
yep
and from all the replays except the one from above, it looked like lebron just flailed around anticipating the contact that didn’t happen. which is actually still what he did, somewhat, given he had a good grip on the ball with his left hand cause noc was holding his right. he then flailed on purpose but it looked like he just lost it.
yeah I couldn't see that on the replay either
I was called out for Noc-hate afterwards too, as I was certain that he fouled him :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
hahaha
i just loved reading the game thread after where you can see everyone go “noc didn’t foul him!” and then 2 minutes later “OHHH there’s the foul….” since it was hidden until the overhead replay lol.
That
though was a “smart” veteran play. James was fouling like crazy ont eh other end using off hands and fouling low. Reggie called him out on this too, but the ref’s didn’t.
That’s a value of being in the league of a while.
i just thought the reaction on the game thread was funny
because it was the same reaction i had while watching it. i laughed and was like “oh noc! you are so sneaky sometimes!” lol.
Yeah
It was one of those “love Noc” moments that we haven’t seen as much lately…incidentally a Love Noc game came out when we played team defense….the team defense was SHARP…..
You had to remind me of the awful non-call on Miller when he pushed off at the end
of the game to get his shot off during the conference finals. Of course, in the long run the right team still won the series.
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
the traveling calls
imho is not the crab dribble per se, it’s ok if you just grab the ball and hop, it’s two steps. problem is when defended hard players tend to pick up their dribble sooner, take that ball high to the chest to prevent the steal, and that’s usually when they take one more step. travel is a good call, rewards the good defence who forced the error.
but with superstars whenever you call traveling they start bitching like oh now you’re implying i don’t know the rules or something. lebron has thrown a fit for this crab dribble thing, while it’s really easy, it’s not the move it’s just that time you mistimed it dude.
Crab dribble
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan
by bennythebull on Jan 16, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
OH that Pooooooooor baby...
take your loss
Vinny Del Negro: "I'm not a puppet, I'm a REEALLL Coach!"
by chibullsfan03 on Jan 16, 2009 5:59 AM CST up reply actions
New nickname
LeBronchitis
Vinny Del Negro: "I'm not a puppet, I'm a REEALLL Coach!"
by chibullsfan03 on Jan 16, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i cant believe reggie miller was praising VDN
saying he applauded him for holding the players accountable for their actions referring to noah/tt
After tonight Reggie Miller is officially the dorkiest NBA player ever.
They should have just let Urkel do the game. He probably wouldn’t have said “Marvelous” like that.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 16, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
how dare u call miller a dork!?!
"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.
I really hope they trade Gooden he really kills the ball movement.
How many times does he always look for his shot from 15 feet away and nobody is down low to rebound?
Did Gooden pass out once last night?
I thought he shot it every time he touched the ball.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 8:00 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
He did pass out ONCE….
But I was thinking the same thing, I think he made the obligatory pass out the one time, and Vinny probably saw his face saying (ooh I hate doing this, must force shot, I know I’m covered, but must force shot and even take a dribble in towards the defender to make the shot even more difficult, must do it, ooh I want to beat the Cavs) and then he passed….and Vinny had enough and sat him the rest of the game…
Quick question
I’m not trying to rip PER by asking this, it’s just an honest question cause I really don’t understand the stat very well. But, looking at Rose’s PER (15.58) in his rookie year vs. Chris Paul’s PER (22.14) in his rookie season, why is it such a dramatic difference?
Here’s a link to Paul’s stats.
Here’s a link to Derrick’s stats.
At a glance you can see Paul had a better year, but other than steals he doesn’t have a huge advantage in another area (rebounds perhaps). And Derrick actually has the edge in a few others. So I’m just curious, if there’s someone out there more familiar with this stuff if you could explain why the gap in their PER’s is so large?
It's pace-adjusted.
I think we play at like the 5th-fastest pace in the league or something? And the hornets have a lot of 90-88 games.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
It looks to be the rebounding, steal, and assist ratios
Paul blows Rose out of the water in each
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Additionally, Derrick coasts
for long, long stretches of games where he just trots down court, passes it to somebody, and floats around. When he’s attacking – for instance the 3pts/3assists in five minutes in OT – I think he’s every bit as good as CP3.
I say we reduce his minutes and just tell him buddy, when you’re in their, you’re attacking.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Is there a stat that records how much time the ball in a players possession?
From what I watch of Paul now, he dominates the ball on just about every possession. Rose is coming into the half court and passing to initiate as soon as he crosses the timeline. In addition, Gordon and Kirk are also bring the ball up court after defensive stops.
Hornets are always finding Paul after DREBs.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
I think
Perhaps Rose is more explosive in moments than Paul, but even in games where he’s explosive, he’ll have bad games stat wise. I mean Rose was a BIG key for our win yesterday, but his stats weren’t all that impressive (bad shooting night) etc….
So while Paul’s PER is great, who knows Rose may be in that league soon with consistency. Paul was always the steadier hand, but as a rook I don’t think he was nearly as explosive in flashes as Rose….
That's what I feel-
When Rose is attacking and determined, I feel he’s got every bit the talent of Paul. Not so when you look over the course of the game…lotsa plays off and coasting. I’m not ragging on the youngblood. Paul was truly exceptional in that regard. Of course, part of it might also have to do with playing with other players who want to dominate the ball and be the guy…but really, it’s mostly a reflection of mental approach. Derrick just isn’t as mature as CP3; it’s not even close.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
THE TYRUS THOMAS ERA MUST BE!
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Jan 16, 2009 3:15 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
BRAVO LUOL DENG!!!
As I said last night after the first quarter of the game, THIS is the Luol Deng that we need to see. I said yesterday that it seems as if somebody had been in Deng’s ear about coming to play every night and leaving it all on the floor. To play with a sense of purpose and not just drift through games or be content to wait for things to happen out there. Quite honestly, he’s not good enough to wait for it to happen. He’s gotta go take it. Kobe can wait….LeBron can wait (he says yesterday was his worst game of the year). If Deng remains assertive then I will be more than happy with him whether he gets 22 and 8 or 10 and 8. He makes himself a factor when he’s assertive. That’s all I’ve been trying to tell you guys for the last 2 years. All that stuff about Rose driving and clogging up the middle and other excuses being made for him were ridiculous. It’s all up to Luol Deng…and since he’s been back he’s looked like a different guy.
Bravo Luol. Now keep moving forward and PLEASE don’t take steps back!!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 7:24 AM CST reply actions
he must've made a huge change
or….it was never actually an issue.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
OK it's official now."Balls" argument is off the table!
General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.
by Azabullsfan on Jan 16, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
I'm more concerned he can't leap with two feet under the basket.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, that's a trend I'd like to see end with him... I would however like to see him continue draining threes!
by fundamentallysound on Jan 16, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Also, it's an extremely small sample size, but Deng is shooting 40% from 3 this year
(6 of 15)… combine that with last year when he shot 36.4% (admittedly on only 22 shots) and I’d say that the argument that Deng can’t shoot from deep might soon be put to rest.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 16, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
speaking of adventures in small sample size
since his return: Kirk Hinrich 50% on 3-pointers.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Azabulls fan,
the “Balls” argument is still on the table. Every dog has it’s day…and Deng had his yesterday. Hell when I was in high school I hit a few game winners and even hit 2 in college. My point being that Deng has CLEARLY raised his LEVEL of play these last couple games. But the key is to continue to do so. There is NO reason in the world that he can’t. Actually there is a reason, and that reason is his own mindset…and some fans here who make excuse after excuse for him when he plays badly. The reason I get on his ass like I do is because I know he’s capable of playing at a very high level consistently. And if we are going to be a good team then we NEED him to do that CONSISTENTLY! I don’t expect the same thing from Thabo that I do from Deng so when Thabo plays a not so good game then oh well.
Deng, when he is playing with purpose, is an all-star talent that we can win with who is a steal at 71 mil for 6 yrs. When he’s not playing well he’s fairly useless and is vastly overpaid at 71 mil for 6 yrs. This is the league and the cream rises to the top. Rise Luol and don’t allow yourself to sink into mediocrity again….or I’ll be there to tear you a new asshole!!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
No Bulls Blogger, it remains to be seen...
…if he can keep up this level of play. He is visibly a different player than he has been pretty much the last year and a half. Mistaking activity for achievement IMO has been the number one mistake that Deng defenders have made. Just because you’re out there moving around doesn’t mean your actually doing something. These last 3 games, Deng has played with a purpose and THAT has always been my (and many who are FAR closer to him than I am) biggest problem with him. That’s why I didn’t feel he was more valuable than Gordon. These last few nights I have seen a different Luol Deng. A more definitive, more confident player. He’s playing with purpose now.
Deng ended up with a -12 yesterday which was the worst on the team, but is there anyone who can honestly say that he wasn’t the best Bull on the court the majority of the game? The numbers say one thing but to see the game tells another story.
With the emergence of guys like Danny Granger, it’s nice to see our SF has decided to come out of his shell. This is all I’ve wanted from him. To develop and break out!! No more excuses now….from any of his defenders or from Deng himself. Bottom line is despite all that jibber jabber out of his mouth for reasons why he hadn’t played well, it all came down to him simply asserting himself in ways he hadn’t been doing before. We’ve seen who he can be (again). There is NO REASON for him to regress. All the pieces are in place for Luol Deng to do nothing but improve at this point.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Plus BullsBlogger...
… i know you can’t honestly think that Deng being sub par to this point wasn’t an issue. We wouldn’t be sitting in 9th or 10th place in the East right now if the same Deng who has played the last 3 games had been playing since the beginning of this season. We wouldn’t be on the level of Boston, Cleveland or Orlando, but do you really think the Atlanta Hawks are that much better than us? I don’t. Not when we get production and impact from the SF spot like we have these last few games. And if you don’t think we’d better than Atlanta then you most certainly have to believ6e we should be better than New Jersey, Philadelphia, Miami and Milwaukee right now.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
You really think that the season can be "restarted"?
The Bulls looked good last night, but the Cavs played a terrible game as well.
This is going to be another disappointing season. This team is a somewhat below average squad, don’t get your hopes up because we win a game.
The Cavs scored 93 in 53 minutes
We’re a great team if we play defense like this. The Cavs had the best record in the NBA heading into the game last night. Yes, they’re banged up, but they had a winning streak going and on fire at home(19-0). They started Lorenzen Wright at center and jumped all over us early with good matchup strategy.
What we did last night was play intelligent basketball. We face guarded when it was the right play. We played off the player when it was the right play. We rotated and helped. We made James go to his left in the paint. We held them to 31% shooting in the second half.
We’re contenders in every game if we play defense like this. The stops get us into transition where we can do damage. It keeps us in games so we can go to Rose in crunch time. Rose got his shots, but got more for his teammates. Luol had two huge shots to close the game. Kirk also nailed a big shot.
We know the team that won 49 games. Strong defense is their catalyst for better offense. Deng and Hinrich are the biggest benefactors of the strong defense.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 8:07 AM CST up reply actions
Lorenzen Wright shouldn't even be in the league
that Cavs team was missing key players, including Delonte West after his blazing start.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
But 2 of the main Bulls played poor games
Ben Gordon was off again, really off on both ends of the court and didn’t get anything going….
And Rose was off until the last minutes of the fourth and OT….
James was off, so were two of our main guys….Gordon just didn’t seem to have it, and Rose missed a lot of open little jumpers that he gets because of his speed/athleticism…
Looks like BG...
…is struggling with the adjustment of having Hinrich back. Visions of Skiles yanking him out of the game and putting in Hinrich when BG makes a mistake…LOL.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
nah.
That was tongue-in-cheek. I more meant that Vinny can now do what he should’ve been doing all-along.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
If this gets Vinny to accomplish common sense things
Like not playing Hughes, Nocioni, Gooden, or Gray more than Rose, BG, Lu, Kirk, Tyrus, and Noah then I will be happy. If not, then expect more sadness next week.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Well
Maybe not play Noc more than the others consistently, but perhaps more Noc consistently than Noah (just not at the 5)…..as Noah’s apt to the very good still and the very bad still….and to me doesn’t have the T2 upside potential (I do think Noah will be good though).
Nocioni can play when there's a reason to
Playing 20 minutes at center is not one of them. Vinny has had more bad coaching games than good, so I’m inclined to believe he will put him out there in a position to fail often. If he learns, then this team can possibly salvage the season.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Some of this Gooden-bashing is unwarranted
If the Bulls didn’t have Gooden, they would have 3-4 wins less than they do right now. Granted, while I don’t think he should have a starting role on the team, he is an adequate asset when coming off the bench -and when he stops taking so many 16 footers-
I'd rather have those 3-4 potential losses and see Tyrus and Noah on the court
And he can play, it’s smart to keep him on the court when he’s hot. But his whole offensive game is based on taking 20 foot jumpers, and posting up maybe 2 times a game. His rebounding is decent, but Noah is a better rebounder than him anyways, and Tyrus can contribute much more as well. Play him off the bench. If he’s scoring keep him in. If not, sit down.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I would like to see that too
But I’d also like to see Rose, Gordon, and Deng play all 48 minutes of a game, too.
There needs to be a bench, man.
Gooden is playing 30 min a game
theres no reason for hyperbole. Gooden shots a jump shot 2/3 of the time and is only shooting %41 on those. Often times he will take these shots out of the flow of the offense. He needs to be yanked when he does this or for his frequent lapses on defense. He can be a good player but on the court he might be the least disciplined player we’ve got.
God
That was a great game.
Yeah they had injuries (allowing us to play some real small ball). I thought Vinny did a great job though yesterday in not over subbing, staying with the guys that were working, and running with it.
I’ve said before I do think Tyrus can be a 3 if he so chooses, and I think yesterday proved it. What a great bunch of defense he did, frustrating Deng with those long arms and having the Lebron’s athleticism matched (too bad Tyrus doesn’t ahve Lebron’s game, but he does have that athleticism)…..
Deng played the best game I’ve seen from him in a couple of years. He looked like a superstar yesterday, which was really great to see. I know his stats were better against the raps perhaps (I think they were, with the 22 pts that night and 14-16 boards (though perhaps I’m getting last nights pts mixed up with the night before’s pts), but Deng looked great.
While they had 1 really huge injury (Big Z) the rest aren’t all that much of killers for them (West was hot early, but he doesn’t typically keep that play up), and the loss of Wallace might be more an addition by subtraction as Anderson’s D, which was always good, is looking really good these days….
But it was nice to see the Bulls win a tough matched game. It would have been better had Ben gotten in going, but oh well, Kirk was looking very very solid.
I thought it was hilarious Reggie (who I still very much hate) saying things like “Why is Tyrus on Lebron that far away from the basket, nobody can cover him there” and then seeing Tyrus cover Lebron and get those blocks, he’d say “now how many guys in this league can do that”…..
Man that game really got me excited about T2, keeping my excitement high….
I know we still need the inside help, but if we can keep this ball movement going, who knows.
Our team defense looked very solid (Kirk and Noc at least were switching away and doing the fundamentals great, Deng joined in too—Deng’s a great one on one defender, but the team d at times is lost, well he had it both going (Noc is a good team defender but not so good on the one on one to say the least).
Still a very good game.
Wish Rose had it going more with those shots, but he did take over when we needed it most.
Just a great game and afterwards ESPN was saying Lebron said we drafted right….that was really cool (my DVR which was extended for 30 minutes after the game time cut off after Deng hit that 2nd 3 in the OT, so unfortunately I didn’t see the final hooray win, which really sucked)….
Just a fun game. Glad again to be a Bulls fan at least for the start of the day….
i always have my DVR
record an extra half hour also… and this time it wasn’t enough! but luckily, since i had been on TNT, it was still in the buffer (though not in the recording) and i got to watch the end. i was almost in the same situation as you there.
and i pretty much agree with what you said. fyi, deng was 16 pts 14 reb against toronto, 22 pts 8 reb last night.
yeah
I tend to put it on the DVR and go in to watch about 30-40 minutes after the start of the game so I don’t have to watch commercials…..or halftime (though I did watch that rather funny for some reason disaster of a Czar play thing)…..
yeah
on tues/thurs i’m typically not home till 9 (i’m on the east coast though) so by the time i get my dinner ready i get to ff through everything. i was just lucky because i was like “OMG I CANT BELIEVE IM NOT GOING TO GET TO SEE THE END OF THIS GAME!!!”
Yeah
That really sucked. THere was like 9 minutes left of my then recorded game and it went to OT, and I thought, there’s no chance because the commericals etc….
Thankfully at least it showed that we were pulling away when mine turned off…
yeah
given that you had put an extra half hour on, that was the exact point that i would have lost the game also. i had the same thought that there was no way OT was going to finish and then i was like “maybe i won’t want to watch this anyway…” knowing how bad we’ve performed in OT this year anyway, and i was pleasantly surprised. and then thankful it was still in my live TV buffer.
My Dish doesn't do that live tv buffer (we have the dual DVR that is 1 DVR records on TV
I much preferred my old DirectTV double recorder to this thing (though Dish’s guide is a billion times better and the packages are better on Dish for the cash).
How is Deng getting his points?
I didn’t watch the last two games and the only highlight of Deng I saw was that 3 pt shot that bounced way up before falling. Just curious if they’re moving him around on offense again or he just happens to now be finding ways to score from standing and waiting.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I hardly saw him score too often
I think off a couple of fast breaks and broken plays and second chance opportunities
He was aggressive mostly
And attacking the rim at times (not 3-4 plays in a row like he tends to overdo at times, but picking his moments) and that kept him really good.
He did hit the 2 3’s I think in the OT, and that’s not his normal game, but for once we Nocioni’d James on the O end by forcign James to collapse on Rose and having Rose find the wide open Deng in teh corner who was open because James switched and the guy guarding Rose (I don’t know if it was Mo or what) didn’t switch…..of course that helps too that Rose is so fast, that we should be able to do more of this, whereas our non switches often come from guys not even realizing they should switch, so then Noc will go out to try to stop the 3 after he tried to stop the post play.
Lu had the DOG in him!
LOL
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan
by bennythebull on Jan 16, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Aggression from Deng!!
I love that. That’s a mindset.
For instance, that’s why track guys usually don’t make good football players. Sure they’re fast, but most times they don’t have the aggressive mindset to be football players.
Deng looks to have adopted an attacking mindset. If that’s the case…..AND I DO MEAN IF….. then look out. We are about to see the jump in production that we’ve all been waiting for. When Deng plays bad I sh!t all over him. But I always said when Deng plays well I’ll be the first to give him kudos. Kudos to Luol. I’m actually rather excited because I think that Deng may be discovering something in himself that he didn’t quite know was there. Let’s hope so.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
ESPN box score has shot charts
Almost all of his points came on jumpers. They were good shots. He was open. He had good lift with a good stroke.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
A couple of things:
1) I saw VDN’s little pep talk to Luol and it sounded like a 5th grade basketball coach talking to his worst player:“Keep your head up and don’t let the mean boys on the other team beat up on you.”
2) There’s a lot of love on this site for both Noah and Thomas, and while I have n problem with the latter, the former just drives me nuts. You can look at Thomas and see the improvements in his game and that he has put in effort to get better. He has gotten a little stronger, improved his jump shot and bumped his free throw percentage into the eighty percent range, which is very damn good for a power forward. On the other hand, Noah, who has less talent/ability than Thomas, has put in far less effort to improve his game. The opposite should be true. As such a limited player, he should be doing everything in his power to work on his game. He obviously hasn’t been hitting the weight room or been conditioning himself in any way, as several times this year he has asked to come out of games. His lack of strength is pathetic. Just get in the damn weight room! In terms of actual game, he hasn’t done anything to make himself more of a weapon on offense. How can a player who has been in the league for over a year not have the ability to make a shot outside of two feet. It’s a bit pathetic when you think about it.
I’m all for keeping Thomas, but I think Pax should do all he can to unload Noah. He simply stinks.
Patience for Noah is likely to pay off
Sam Smith’s alluded several times over the years to many NBA players having a hard time improving themselves between their first and second years due to a combination of being exhausted from their first season and not realizing how much work they need to put in in the off season. Noah seems to be a classic case. He’s been extremely effective on the defensive end and the boards. Give him another summer to work on his game before giving him up for likely little in return.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 16, 2009 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I dunno if its that hard to find a hustle guy but Noah hopefully will improve
We do see flashes of his great rebounding ability if he could bang then we’d have something. (really need a post defender)
Rec snley
Exactly. I think after Noah did so well down the stretch his rookie year, he probably thought, ok all I needed was the time to play well…..I’m fine and will stick to my regular regimine. It hink this year he’s learned in a trial by fire that he needs to work on his game….hopefully him watching T2’s dramatic improvement in the fundamentals area (not yet in the game play, though getting there) Noah can go work with T2 and Deng this offseason…
This is exactly what I've been thinking.
It’s seemed so obvious, with the offseason issues/etc., too.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Noah
It always amazes me when people like dakoose or whatever his name is, starts going off on young players like Noah. Sounds like a hater masquerading as an objective poster. People like him don’t fool me and won’t fool anybody with a brain. He’s probably a Noah hater that goes back to his college days. The kid showed what he’s capable of when he’s on the floor when he sealed the Bulls victory over Toronto the previous night with that block. I seem to remember him doing the same thing when he blocked Lebron James’ attempt at a game winning dunk when the Bulls squared off in a similar situation last year. Noah is a winning ball player, that’s why John Paxson drafted him with the 9th pick. Vinny Del Negro is a joke as a coach and can’t make use of what he has. If the Bulls are dissatisfied with Noah, then let the rest of the League know and you’ll see how they’ll grab him at the first opportunity. Really, for me, I want him in New York so we won’t have to put up with jokers like dakoose who spend their time trying to tear him down.
What the hell?
Noah is a winning ball player? For starters, there are good ballplayers and bad ballpayers, not winning ballplayers. If teams win because of you, it’s because you are good, not some type of intangibles. I don’t see how anyone can refute any of what I wrote. I’m not referring to my point about trading him, because that is an opinion. What area has he improved in? He’s not faster, stronger or more skilled. He has no post moves and has not developed any type of shot. In the NBA you are either moving forwards or going backwards, as staying the same gives the league time to adjust and therefore limit your effectiveness. Noah hasn’t improved and it simply pisses me off. Call me a hater, but at least bring some logic and address my points.
And yeah, if you want to look at singular performances and extrapolate, how’s this for a line: Thirteen+minutes, four points, three boards, one assist and one turnover, two fouls, -12. Noah is not a good player at this point. How can a team afford to play a hustle player who doesn’t hustle enough??
On a random note Webber saw the flights of the week "Rose got hops like that?!"
Kenny said he thought Rose was going to be in the dunk contest.
I was hoping for it he is a showman more so than Alexander.(him and Lebron just have that kind of fluid motion)
If we had seen more of Thabo and Tyrus earlier he’d probably would’ve had more dunks so people could see. (unless he turned down an invite)
Oh the joy of an optimistic moment!!
I never expected us to win last night. More importantly, beside Rose, there are real reasons to be hopeful.
1- As others have stated Tyrus appears to have grown up. He is more consistent, less stupid mistakes, and I thought played excellent help defense on LeBron. When I used to cringe when he took an outside shot I now think his shot is not that bad. I still prefer him going inside but his shot has improved. FTs are great.
2- Hinrich’s great unselfish play appears to be as contagious as Hughes selfish play.
3- Deng is becoming Deng.
4- Maybe VDN is also improving. That is still a maybe but there is something to be said for going through adversity. To VDN’s credit he never appeared to lose the team when we stunk up the joint. I am in the show me mode but maybe he will improve and this will work out. A day for optimism.
5- Defense seems to be improving.
It is a good day. We haven’t had too many so let us enjoy!!!
chgobr
Watch we praise Vinny just a bit, and against the Spurs we see Noc on Duncan all night…..or Gooden getting “healthy” and taking 25 minutes from Gooden (who plays 40 minutes of his jack em up and no D play—the jack em up when it hits is fine, but is more than nullified by the no D).
I hope not.
that's the problem with 'matchups'
Kudos for seeing Tyrus playing well and leaving him in.
But just…leave him in all the time. Less thinking for you, Vinny! I’m trying to help :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
with the leave Tyrus all the time because TYrus is a rare bird who can go through stints of stupid things, then just magically turn into doing ubelievable things without needing the benching….
i don’t think many guys do that, but I think Tyrus oddly can and does….Most guys will have a bad run here or there and will continue to be bad until they get a breather (Getting more and more and more frustrated, which wears them down and causes them to play worse each ensuing play, forcing the need to sit), Tyrus seems to not care how bad he looked before and eventually on the court he’ll revert to good T2—except of course that Boston game, but more so as this season’s progressed. I don’t know if that makes sense per se—having trouble putting that thought into text I guess, but I think it’s what you’re saying/thinkign too (The thought not my words :) ).
It’s just a shame though that the stints of stupid things happen as often as they can, but he’s getting better there.
I state again
No D. He has no D. He is to be called rew Gooen.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan
by bennythebull on Jan 16, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
God that play was so awesome
James gets a dunk there or a layup and foul 99.999% of the time, and maybe Tyrus is the .001% that keeps it from 100%. Tayshawn can’t stop that and he’s one of the best 3 defenders in the league.
this photo is also awesome
cause it captures the exact right moment. i love how much higher tyrus is than james here in this picture.
That was Tyrus helping
and James going to his left. Prince can block that shot easily if he’s helping. If he’s the man guarding Lebron its a lot harder.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Good point
It was Noc’s man I guess. I couldn’t remember.
Still I don’t know if Prince can do that….Prince is an AWESOME defender, but he’s shown little ability to guard Lebron, Tyrus ain’t consistent and that’s 1 play I know, but Tyrus was doing a very solid job guarding Lebron from past the 3 pt line too..
I think
there was also another TT block on James earlier in the game. I can’t seem to find it on youtube. King Crab was trying to dunk on TT.
Yep
James was whistled for the offensive foul. He was shielding Tyrus with his off arm. Tyrus didn’t get any credit for a block though.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Can you say BaB AVATAR?
I can. And as soon as I figure out how to swipe it….lemme see now….
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
The Bulls answered one enduring BaB question in the 4th qtr and OT.
Can the Bulls win and score without BG?
The answer: a resounding yes.
Good God 1 fucking game?
David Stern should have just handed the Larry O’ Brien trophy to us last night the way people are acting.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
They showed what they should be when you have very high draft picks year after year.
Why not be happy? It was the best game of the season.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 16, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
Slow down with that hlac!!
Despite last night, rest assured we don’t win TOO many games with BG being as much a non factor as he was last night.
Plus, we can’t overlook the possibility that Cleveland wasn’t too excited to play us seeing as though they’ve got New Orleans tonight. In all honesty we got their worst effort (LeBron James called it his worst game of the year) and they got our best effort.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Holy frickin moly!
What did I miss!!??
Damn the time difference!!
:(
But yay for the w! :D
We looked for 1 game at least
Like the little engine that could, fun to watch Skiles oriented D team, wiht a more fluid offense….(not pefected yet) but you missed a really fun game. Even if we lost and we threatened to lose again when it got tough, it was still a fun to watch game and the team looked fluid at times…..
I love D, I love teams that play D, I love when D is focused on, and I thought our Defense was awesome yesterady, undersized but awesome and that was the catalyst for the moments of great offense.
We haven’t seen that kind of D from this group since the tail end of 2006.
here is my two cents...
Ben Gordon is Larry Hughes with a jump shot. They’re both selfish players and I think it’s been proven that teams with selfish players don’t succeed. Look at the Lakers when Kobe was trying to do everything himself, same with Lebron with the Cavs and AI with the 76’ers. When Kobe, Lebron, and AI started relying on others, their teams have flourished. When you get down to it, a successful basketball team needs a few key components: a star player that I think we have in DRose; a perimeter threat that we have in BG, KH, and Noc; and an inside game. The inside game is what we’re missing, but are players are still young, so time will only tell. IMO, tyrus is the closest thing we have to an inside game, but he makes stupid decisions. Noah is garbage to me, he has energy and can sometimes play hard, but isn’t strong enough to play center. So to break it down, we need better inside presence or trade for some. We have to many guards, and imo, KH is more valuable to the team than BG. So if we’re gonna look for a trade, I say the big three are Ben Gordon, Big shot Larry, or Noah for a center who can score and play defense.
If this were the Blazers
There would be 10 articles and blog posts about this being a turning point. Great game though. Great win for the Bulls.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
the Bulls haven't had a 3 game win streak in like 20 months
They may need a 7 game streak before there’s any turnaround. Or they trade for Brad Miller.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
Miller dropped a 30/22 game the other night :-)
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Stamina!
he can do it all, even with green lungs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Isn't it amazing what happens when the coach plays the players who actually pass and play defense?
AKA not Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
When the Bulls win at least 7 out of 10 like this it'll be impressive
This team has the capability to play like this every night, or at least a majority of the time.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Their beat writer Jason Quick and Bill Simmons find a turning point from a bowel movement.
The Bulls could win 5 or 6 of the next 8.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Beating the Cavs then Spurs would be the most impressive thing since sweeping the Heat
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
Kevin Arnovitz with his thoughts on the Rose/Hinrich duo last night
http://myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 11:22 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
nice find
I’ll fanshot this.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
here
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/1/16/725890/kevin-arnovitz-on-the-hinr
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
All I know is that we've got a guy in Gordon who has....
…pretty much thrived alongside Rose for the better part of 40 games or so. It’s gonna take a hell of a lot more than one good game from the Rose/Hinrich combination to convince me that Hinrich is a better fit next to Rose than Gordon is.
I’m sure Rose and Gordon have had plenty of good games together as well.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
They have
His point isn’t that Kirk and Rose are a better duo. He’s just stating how teams have trouble when both guards can handle the ball and push the tempo. But it has serious drawbacks when the tempo slows down. The Bulls are not a great half court team, not using set plays for BG makes them even more predictable on offense (as in all eyes on Rose).
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
that's what I took from it
it’s nice having two guards who can attack a defense. Gordon’s better than Hinrich at it (and has been doing it for more than 3 games, as lex pointed out), so it’s more like 3 guards.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Gordon has thrived.
But at what expense?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 16, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, at what expense?
Seriously, at what expense?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Again Dionysus 2.0.
We don’t lose many games because of our backcourt. I’d say the Rose/Gordon backcourt at it’s best is about the 6th or 7th best backcourt combo in the leauge. Many of our losses have been due to uneven frontcourt play. So I’d say Gordon has thrived at no expense. No one on the roster has suffered because Gordon has played. If anything Gordon is the one who suffers at some of his teammates expense.
I’m not saying he’s perfect because he is far from it. But as I mentioned a few games back Gordon has by far been the most consistent Bull this season (this mini slump he is now aside).
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
At the worst
the Bulls backcourt of Rose/Thabo/Hinrich/Gordon and sadly Hughes are top 5 backcourts….for 48 mpg.
It’s just that our PF/C have struggled and Deng started off the year poorly/injured.
At the expensive of perimeter defense...
Where the Bulls have been horrible…neither Rose nor Gordon are good defenders, so the other players on the court have to compensate for their deficiencies.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
D
The entire defense seems much better with Kirk on the court. I’ve seen him force a couple guards pick up their dribbles just past half court which takes the opponent out of their offense. I can’t remember the last time I saw Gordon or Rose do that.
The best thing about last night’s game for me was getting defensive stops in the 4th and OT. That’s something else they haven’t done all year.
by El Toro de Goro on Jan 16, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Name me 5 great defenders at the PG and SG spots Dionysus 2.0.
Outside of:
Kobe
B-Roy
D-Wade
and PG:
Chris Paul (great at getting steals)
Rajon Rondo
arguably Derek Fisher
Outside of those guys, there aren’t 5 guys at either position who are DEFINITIVELY better than Gordon or Rose. Do they both have to improve? Sure. Particularly Rose, who has the tools to be an elite defender. But Gordon is nowhere near as terrible a defender as you paint him to be.
Yeah sure a guy like Dantay Jones is a much stronger defender than Gordon, but the next time he scores 20 pts and forces a team to pay attention to his scouting report will be the first time.
As for the quote you have as your signature, I’ve got news for you….in all honesty approximately 95% of NBA players are selfish. That got the majority of them to where they are now and that’s why they’re pros and we’re on here talking about what they’re doing.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
So let me get this straight.
Other players are bad, so its okay if our players are bad too?
Regarding my sig, your friendly bulls blogger said it, I just quoted it for truth.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
see, you can be stupid here
just not intentionally stupid to needle me. It hurts the site in two ways.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
Please he'd hand out the water 15 seconds before it was needed
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
That was Vinny's best coached game of the year
And I say that in spite of Vinny’s making the huge blunder of not playing Gordon down the stretch. You don’t bench your 20ppg, highest efficiency scorer because he had a quiet game. We got lucky to score 16 points in the 4th and still win.
Three things I liked though:
1) Playing a 9 man rotation. I’ve called out the 11 man rotation in the past, and this was the first concerted efforted I’ve seen to establish a set rotation.
2) Benching Larry Hughes completely, and giving Gooden’s minutes to Tyrus.
3) Playing Tyrus at center. I’ve called for this repeatedly in the past. Tyrus thrives under the hoop, and against most of the league his height won’t be exploited underneath.
Anyway, hope this continues, and I hope our win yesterday doesn’t leave Gordon out of future 4th quarter rotations as we “prepare for next year”.
Tyrus isn't 6'10" though, man.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
It's a good thing he's not.
Otherwise he would be too tall to play center for this team in crucnh time.
Thats true
Wasn’t feeling Noc playing the 5 at all, sometimes Vinny amazes me throwing out rec league line-ups, thats the only time I’ve seen a 6’7" center
Wasn't
A.C. Green 6 6? He was a one time all star….
And Barkely was a 6 5 PF.
Not that Noc is in those leagues.
If a lineup works, you go with it. Vinny tried something to get us going and it worked. Not everything should be text book.
Of course Vinny also tries things at times, sees it fails, but does nothing to stop the failing….but hopefully he’s turned a corner, or he just got lucky….the next few games might tell.
I certainly don’t want to start a Noc at C campaign.
That was one of the comments
I’d called for it before. Tyrus’s game is that of a center, Joakim’s of a PF.
how so?
I like giving Thomas the responsibility of covering more ground than I do Noah. Also brings up the idea of whether you’d rather see Tyrus take a jumpshot or Noah just hold it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
Noah has good footspeed
His biggests strength are his mobility and his quick hands. In college Donovan had him switching onto point guards off picks, and I’ve never seen a 7 footer guard the top of the key better. Last year Boylan experimented with Noah at SF, and he guarded Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace well – I remember his stripping Smith clean on back to back plays. Yesterday he switched onto LeBron in isolation, and LeBron opted to shoot the jumper instead of drive by him.
I think one reason why Noah is showing little development at C is because he’s not built to play C. He’s improved his shotblocking this year, but he’s not a shotblocker (he can barely jump). And while he isn’t a beanpole, he doesn’t have a frame he can add a whole lot of weight to. On top of that, his mobility and quick hands go mostly to waste because other Cs play in the post.
And I’d rather see Tyrus under the hoop dunking, scoring easy layups, and drawing fouls. Players with his athleticism and foul drawing ability should have TS% around .6, not .49. He’s jumpshooting doesnt help us. Noah can hold the ball if he wants.
The beauty of short memories...
A few good games, and wow how things seem to have drastically changed in many’s eyes:
1) BG is now apparently worthless and at least more expendable than KH…hmm…
2) TT is now apparently “untouchable” in some people’s minds…wtf???
3) Luol Deng is “back to the old (good) Lu”
Are we also now better than the Cavs?
I think one thing that differentiates good GMs vs. average/bad ones is the knowledge/discipline/ability to trade players at/near a peak of their value for superior long-term value. Kind of like investing. Based on this, it would seem that most fans are not qualified to be GMs in this league. Not an enlightening observation.
TT's
Always been in my more untouchable class given the upside and age.
Again I think it’s that those who’ve been saying this are now getting the others’s ears.
I am on the fence with Kirk and Ben. Ben’s a much better player, but he won’t come cheap, and Kirk is a great role player who gives us a unique punch with his D….
I think ideally long term it’s a Rose-BG backcourt, but I don’t know if we can keep Rose-BG-Deng and have the big man holes, and now that Deng’s signed, I don’t know if we can trade him for what we could have (And I don’t think Deng’s as bad as he was showing, I just don’t think he’s quite as good as he was last night—though he was awesome and many more of those games and I will go from Deng disenter (though understanding that he’s not a bad player, just not my pick over the more “fire” and punch that is Gordon, to Deng supporter). I didn’t think Deng was capable of his play yesterday against the best SF in the league….
I generally agree with you majo...
I don’t mean to come off as someone who just states truisms that are so obvious they are meaningless / un-debatable. That is, after all, the point of these forums, right? To debate and discuss? My only points (more like observations) were the following:
1) 10 games, let alone 1 does not a player / career make. each one of us can cite at least one athlete who had 1 good/great SEASON and disappointed the rest of his career. Likewise, it would be silly to extrapolate from last night’s game that Rose only shows up in crunch time.
2) As far as I’m concerned nobody on this roster is untouchable. Nobody. Perhaps I take that word too literally. In my mind there have been a HANDFUL of “untouchable” players in recent NBA history. Theoretically speaking there shouldn’t be ANY player EVER who is untouchable (as w/o limits an offer could always be superior to the value you give up, even in an extreme case like MJ – clearly this isn’t a realistic statement tho as it’s not like we could offer all of our future 1st round draft picks into perpetuity, or our entire roster + $100mm cash for LeBron – given what it would take to get him and the near impossibility of the Cavs being able to get value parity, he is therefore “untouchable” ie why the hell would u ever trade him). TT does not qualify under this definition. If the Cavs offered LeBron for Rose (this is just an example folks, so no need to respond w/ banal comments about salary diff, reality checks, etc.) I would take that offer – hence Rose isn’t untouchable either.
Having said this, I think both BG v. KH and question of do we trade Tyrus now if possible (presumably for more proven/older/reliable talent w/ arguably less upside v. TT) are incredibly tough calls and I honestly don’t know or have a strong opinion. I went thru most of last season HATING KH, a bit unfairly at times as I think I was giving him a disproportionate share of the blame w/ him being Mr. C and all. But over the course of his career, I think he’s shown he is at least a good perimeter defender and above-avg NBA guard which is not as easy to find (as say an adequate SF). He may or may not be overpaid, I don’t know. BG is so tough to figure out – weirdly I think he is both underrated AND overrated (does this make any sense??). On TT, do you include him in a package if you can get a Kaman/Miller/Camby/fill-in-blank type of player? I don’t think so, but who knows – maybe if TT goes back to sucking ass the rest of the season and Pax sits on his laurels then we’ll all be calling for his head for not dumping him when he had the chance.
As for Lu, my feelings on him are actually pretty clear (and always have been). I think he is a good SF and will have a good NBA career but I do not think he’s worth $70mm. That’s it and that’s not necessarily his fault so I’m not mad at him for making a lot of money / not being able to be more than he has the ability to be.
Agree
Especially on the BG overrated and underrated (Though in my book more on the latter less on the former—now there’s some confusing lingo)…..but yeah BG’s a bit overrated on some aspect’s, but remains very much underrated to the public at large and on some other areas….he’s a tough guy to make a call on….
As for Tyrus, yeah I mean trade him in a second if packaged for a top tier guy (top 10-20 player that helps the team now), but Tyrus ain’t worth really more than a throw in given the public rap on him (GMs may love him, but imagine how much they’d be burned if say Pau Gasol—not even a top 20 player though still underrated, was traded to the Bulls for Larry Hughes and Tyrus Thomas….the Lakers see the upside that is Tyrus in that fake never going to happen and only here to prove an argument since the Lakers are awesome and in now way in need of trading anyone and if they made a trade it’s involving Odom because they aren’t keeping him, but the Lakers in my fake proposal would see Tyrus’s potential, but the fans who don’t follow would not….so Tyrus gets billed as a fill in, and it’s on him to overperform consistently from that tag.
We won’t likely be able to include Tyrus in a trade without also giving up Kirk or BG (or less likely Deng) and I certainly don’t want to trade Tyrus for a Kaman guy (one who’s decent but not that good when T2 has the upside).
Obviously everyone’s tradable for a Lebron, Wade player, but those guys aren’t getting traded.
It was great to see
this team smiling and having fun in the overtime. It’s been awhile since they have been able to do that. Derrick’s roaring at the crowd said it all.
One thing that speaks volumes to me is that during the game when it was close and the Bulls would make a basket or block a shot the bench (except for LH) was up and cheering for their teammates. In the overtime when they would score and the crowd was on their feet cheering TNT did a scan of the Bulls bench. The team was up cheering for their teammates except for two players. I find that sad when you can’t even cheer for your teammates.
Captain Kirk returns and everyone's now happy on the bench, coincidence? I think not
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
my leprosy is cured too!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Tomorrow Kirk leads the Bulls to a win over SAS,
then solves world hunger!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
True. It was nice to see the team have fun and to have a fun game for fans.
Now we need to see more of this from our team. As I said in an earlier post, I fear we got took Cleveland’s worst punch and we gave them our best and barely beat them and are overly encouraged by it. A win is a win though and I’ll take it. But these guys need to hold themselves accountable and play at that level every night. Lord knows we hold them accountable (to an unbelievable degree) on here.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jan 16, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
You may find this
interesting about Deng. KC (I know you guys don’t like him) was on CTL last night and someone asked him why Luol had been so bad. He said that the coaches told Lu that he was going to be a spot up shooter and the area around the basket was Derricks. That might explain why Lu kept saying he was having a hard time adjusting to the new offense. But since he has come back they told him to play his game. A world of difference.
If true, what a waste and misuse of Deng's talents.
Wonder if Pax had a chat with VDN about Deng – after all, if Deng does not perform it reflects badly on the man who just gave him a nice new contract.
by Granny Waiters on Jan 17, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
That
Sounds like a HUGE heap of excuses to me. I highly doubt they’d sign Deng to a $71M contract with incentives to $80M or whatever and then say, change your game for our rookie…..
If they did, Deng’s agents would be crying foul all over the league as the additional income is virtually lost.
Deng sucked early because he was trying to do too much and wasn’t being aggressive (both things are not new for him in stretches)…
But several times
in interviews Lu said he was having a hard time adjusting to the new offense. I doubt KC was lying.
What would you do if two injured players returned and the team looks completely different?
I’d probably sulk too. If I’m Hughes I already live in a world of self denial.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
You're not Larry Hughes.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
You have no idea what is going on in the minds of each player
Maybe Derrick Rose thinks Hinrich is an asshole because he didn’t invite him to party when Du was in town. BG has never said or done anything to intentionally sabatoge the team. How soon the Hinrich cures cancer crowd forget that there were rumors last year that the locker room favored Chris Duhon over Kirk. He played well and is finally back, is it so hard for people to just enjoy him without stomping on the neck of a guy who has only helped this team win games for 5 seasons?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 16, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
It's a team sport.
Get up and cheer your team on. Kirk would have been crucified in here if he had acted like that when he lost his starting spot to Derrick. All of the guys (except Hughes) who don’t get to play are always up cheering. It’s called being part of the team. I never said BG has tried to sabotage the team but he could have been supporting them.
by sue369 on Jan 17, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Financial considerations
I think BG has done a good job changing his game this year to adjust to Rose. Like many NBAers he has a healthy ego and thinks he’s worth more than he really is. If he’s sitting in crunch time its potentially costing him millions. Makes it tougher to cheer.
I like BG, but I don’t see any teams paying him top money to be their starting SG. We’ll know for sure after the season.
by El Toro de Goro on Jan 17, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
doesn't matter in the least
this is how Paxson got in trouble in the first place, caring about such things instead of talent. Talent wins, then everyone on the bench is happy because they’re winning.
And I mean really winning, not just one game here and there.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
text my agent.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
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