Vinny always blame the players

by bull83 on Jan 13, 2009 11:47 AM CST Comment 45 comments

I was reading hoopsworld... Ups, sorry. Let me start again. I was reading poopsworld today and found an interesting article. According to our beloved KC Johnson, now Vinny del Negro thinks that we lack of leadership.

"I don't think that's one of the team's strengths right now," coach Vinny Del Negro said. "Our younger guys will develop into that, Derrick especially."

"It's tough when you have your captains out," Del Negro said. "But still when you're a captain, no matter if you're in street clothes or not, you have a responsibility and a respect from the players that it has to come from them. It can't always come from me or the coaching staff. As guys take more ownership of the team and understand what leadership and work ethic are all about, guys follow suit."

"If they can't make good basketball decisions, then I'll have to make good coaching decisions and get us to share the ball more."

That got me thinking: When the hell is Vinny stop making excuses and blaming the players for every thing that is happening this year?

First was the lack of effort from the players. After that, he accused some players from being unprofessionals. Then the food case. Now this. Is he ever going to think that he might be the problem and should take, at least, some of the blame? As far as I'm concern, there are only two people who should be blame for what's happening: a certain John Paxson and, of course, Vinny.

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It's not like

Our players are known to be great and not me-first.

I mean we ran the last 2 coaches off the team.

That’s why this year it’s all about Paxson. Stop riling on VDN. He’s not great, but he’s not given a fair hand either, a team of defenseless lachkey’s with no leader and all are me over the team.

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I would say VDN

was handed a 49 win team 2 years ago… It’s basically the same team minues Wallace, plus DRose, Hughes, Gooden.

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 13, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's funny

Because we were a 33 win team and a 33 win team that was fading fast into a worst team.

While we got more talent in the Wallace deal and adding Rose, that’s individual talent. The team is FAR inferior…..too many guys at the same position, too few solid NBA caliber 4’s and 5’s.

You could say Vinny inherited the 1996-1997 Bulls that won 72 games (I think that was the year). I mean it’s the same team…..

We’re NOT a 49 win team, nor did anyone have that expectation maybe besides you…..and add in that this team had it’s starting PG from that team go down to an early injury, had it’s starting SF never play like he had that season since and go down to sig injury, we lost the role playing 4 and 5’s we counted on big time and in their place have an inconsistent Thomas, who isn’t a mere role player….right now he’s not very consistent, but his upside is such that he shouldn’t be groomed to be a role player, he should be groomed to be a star, and he is slowly turning some corners there, but he’s a ways away and might never get there. Tyrus ain’t a role player and if we tried to groom him as such, then Vinny should be let go asap (he’s not doing that)….

Noah is the role playing 4/5 we need, but he’s not ready for his role, and thus we’re playing Gray. Gray’s a prototypical role playing 5 with his offensive footwork/post moves, except that he’s too slow for this level….

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just saying

there is some talent on this team and VDN isn’t using it properly. When he was hired he talked about developing the younger talent (Thabo, Tyrus, DRose.) He has failed miserably on these players and continues to trot the same bad lineups out there in the 4th. Why Thabo didn’t see the 4th qtr or hardly any of the 2nd half makes me wonder what he is thinking…

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 13, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

Particularly when TT and Thabo play defense. Against Portland, for example, both should have played the 4th, when they went small. But no. He preferred to play Noc and Gooden, who play no defense at all. And that’s his fault, not the players. It’s his fault that we don’t play defense. It’s his fault that our offense is basically the pick and roll and one on ones… We’re talking about his system and his choices. So, he needs to start blaming himself.

by bull83 on Jan 13, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea i agree with you there

Tyrus wasnt making any mistakes on the defensive end at all. Noch was keeping our game on the peremeter and wasnt doing a good job.

Ill buy the matchup arguments that vdn makes, but he has to buy into what it means to “matchup”. Tyrus should be given that responsibility. “Hey tyrus, your job is to shut down aldridge” thats what vdn shouldve told him. Take tyrus into the tape room, show him how aldridge likes to play, and send him off to battle. Tyrus seems like the guy eager to prove how much hes improved, and i think he wouldve taken the challenge. No need to double aldridge.

Gooden i think was the best player to keep at center, but noch really helps him in no way, and neither does deng. I stated this already but the best lineup on the floor came at the end of the 1st it was:

Rose
Hinrich
Thabo
Tyrus
Gooden

They were balanced offensively and defensively, and completely unselfish. Hinrich thabo and tyrus really were doing a good job on the defensive end, and d. rose was doing a good job setting up cats. Thabo kept finding ways to get good looks, and thomas was trailing shots for the offensive board. Gooden i thought played a great 1st half, making nice passes, and hiting his jumpers in stride.

That lineup (maybe thabo for hinrich and keep deng in….) shouldve happened in the late 3rd or 4th. But everyone needs to be showcased or something (why else are so many minutes being distributed)

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jan 13, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree on that part

THe problem though is that Pax needs to man up and COMMUNICATE to the fans that he feels this is a rebuilding year, and allow Vinny to do what he can to develop the team.

I know we see a rebuilding year team in desperate need of a trade or two, but I think the damn “playoff or die” short term thinking on a team who’s upside is in long term development is crap.

Pax did this last year and has carried on, and it’s that mentality that causes us to see so much Noc in lieu of Tyrus or so much Gooden even when he isn’t defending instead of Tyrus and Noah or so much Hughes vs Thabo…

It’s ridiculous.

Vinny is being told from the inside to win at all costs, so he’s doing what he can to try to help us win with the safer/more consistent players, making short term decisions that are all crumbling because what we fans see is the wild cards that Thomas, Noah, Thabo can give….but we want to see them play major minutes and win becasue Pax hasn’t publicly said this is a 100% rebuild year…..which after last season’s debacle he should until we make the trade (if it is indeed a blockbuster)….

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Vinny's trying to win at all costs...

you could’ve fooled me.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's not winning

But he’s trying to hold up the fort with the veteran’s.

It’s hard to win with this roster.

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thats not what he was hired to do

by reprisal on Jan 13, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love to attribute his decisions to blindly turning to the vets

Then at least we’d know he puts some thought into what he’s doing w/ the rotations. Terribly misguided and wrong, but still, it’s effort.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jan 13, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am so pissed about Vinny's hiring

I thought he was hired to develop our team and work out some kinks, get us playing together again and as a cohesive unit.

That’s what he was doing early this year, and then an abrupt switch happened by Dec and our team’s suffered considerably for it. Tyrus got yanked around and had some DNP-CD’s, Gray got too much time. Noah became a distant memory of one of last year’s few positive’s, and even Derrick Rose seems to be pissed on this club.

I thought given all the work Pax did and the publicity around getting a coach, that Vinny would have been a really qualified coach…..

Well to me I think Vinny was just hired as a scapegoat coach, a talentless coach who was completely unqualified (I know he didn’t have the experience, but thought given the tedius coach search he’d have the qualifications)…..

I think Vinny was put in here to fail. I think starting the year he did what he wanted to do to get this team to play a bit together, then the Chairman came down and said play to win, I will not communicate to season ticket holders that we’re a mess…and the team reverted to last year’s mold of playing the veteran’s only because they’re veteran’s.

Paxson hired Vinny only to defer all this trade garbage because Pax yet again and even more disappointing given last year did NOT make a trade this past offseason when he drafted another talented guard in lieu of a big (right move in the draft, but still an issue) and then proceeded to candy ass around the Hinrich-Gordon situation.

Pax should have tried to package both, start the year with Thabo as our SG…..even if he aint’ ready, used Hinrich and Gordon and another piece to get a big that could help, and then see what we have with 1 full year with a new coach and a fresh locker room…..

Instead he candied around still hasn’t made a trade, watched Kirk go down with an injury and the in fighting for PT starts, and we’re a horrible team with a mix mashed bunch who are all mostly underperforming besides the typically reliable even though he’s been made to think of otherwise Ben Gordon….

And fans are on Vinny for this. Paxson’s team is still reeling from the Garnett/Gasol/Bryant trades that should have been made, and the Wallace flub….

We’ve had almost a year with this roster and in that time I dunno what we’ve won maybe 30 games and lost 45-46?

We add a #1 overall that like his brother before might make Pax seem more successful down the line, but this team is a nightmare.

We have to stop blaming the coach first. Blame the GM!

Paxson’s been worse than his brother Jim was in Cleveland, and incidentally our Paxson’s reign of mistakes happened just as soon as he hired Jim to be an assistant (Jim left the team after last year)…

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Blame them both

The only thing that’s changed since Dec is that Rose isn’t playing as well

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jan 13, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paxson can't properly evaluate his players either

if they’re not being coached.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You dont really know what trades could have been made

but why stop there? you say you cant evaluate Vinny with out blaming Pax? Well you mentioned it briefly…you cant blame Pax with out blaming JR. But blaming JR feels kinda pointless, since, even if its all his fault, he still wont sell the team. Even if its mostly Pax’s fault, he still wont resign and its very unlikely he gets fired. Meanwhile its getting very hard to imagine VDN wont be fired. So there you have it, people yell the most about VDN cause it feels the most productive. The rest is a clusterfuck.

by reprisal on Jan 13, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Any trade

To remove the logjam of guards which would remove the fighting about roles and minutes and get us focused on bball would have been a good thing. Surely Paxson had to see this ruin the team all of last year…..and to let it continue on and on and on and on and on.

And no the team has been playing much more me oriented of late. In late Nov through early Dec we were somewhat excited because even on the few games D. Rose was off, our team was playing cohesively….then the complaints about PT started…..and the injury bug hit us hard with the Deng’s and Gooden’s going down and we stopped seeing Tyrus and Noah for stretches……

Now we’re about 3 weeks from last year level’s with more pure talent than we ever had last year, just ill-fitted talent.

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bullseye!

There was really only one very public exhibition of the why things are what they are. Pax chose D’Antoni. Jerry said no. Pax then offered the job to Collins. Jerry said no. Do people really feel that was an aberration?

by California Al on Jan 15, 2009 3:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont think

Pax hired VDN to fail, that seems ridiculous. If VDN was a sucessful coach the heat would of been taken off of this organization. Imagine if this team was winning and playing the right way while developing the young players! I think VDN interviewed well and talked a good game. He said the right things, emphasized D, developing the youngsters, while running a high pace offense. He has failed in everything he talked about. I’m not sure if Pax just got tired of searching for a coach and wanted to gamble on a new rookie coach but it hasn’t worked out. That is on Pax!!
I’m sure Pax has tried to make trades and I wish he would just do something. I realize that the Gasol, Bryant, and KG trades didn’t happen but I don’t blame Pax for that. I think he should of moved Kirk this offseason instantly once he realized he was gonna take DRose.

They are both to blame and to give VDN a pass becuase the roster isn’t perfect is an excuse. VDN stated that he loved Tyrus, Thabo and Noah in the press conference and was looking forward to working with them this season, …..something changed!

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 13, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that doesn't change Vinny being terrible.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He is terrible

But few could be good is all I’m saying.

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well I think you're wrong.

all you’d need is someone to DNP Hughes and Noc.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And trade em

And trade Gooden

And get Tyrus and Noah to focus
and DNP Gray

And make Rose more consistent (not a rookie)
And teach Rose to defend

And let Gordon know that he really shouldn’t be overdribbling, especially him

And make Deng be more aggressive

And develop players

And not have the team so mixed up/top heavy (or backcourt heavy)…

Hughes and Noc on the court aren’t our main problems. Try Gooden, Tyrus’s lack of development, Noah not being ready, Aaron Gray being on the team, Deng not playing to his contract at all, and not playing, HInrich being hurt, Rose being a rookie (A sensational at times rookie, but a rookie) and us still lacking the on the court leadership.

Of course a better coach might help, and I’m in now way saying Vinny’s been great or even good, but I blame Pax more than Vinny and think Vinny’s been made to fail with this mess.

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Blame them both. as much as you want

Don’t come to the defense of Vinny because you think Pax should get more heat. Just put on more heat.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Vinny

is a rookie coach, who I would have expected more from given the coaching search.

He’s been shite-y really shite-y….but I think it was all a master plan to get some heat from Reinsdorf’s man John Paxson.

Paxson slightly redeemed himself getting the Gooden and Hughes TALENTS in the Wallace trade, but now he’s letting them mire down and lose value with each passing game……esp Drew.

Really Blame Paxson a 10 out 10 on the blame meter….blame Vinny a 4 out of 10….but folks want Vinny gone. I’m fine with that after a trade is made and Pax gets the axe

by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember reading a story on here

that said VDN handles all the offensive and defensive schemes himself, instead of deferring to / utilizing his proven assistants. That struck me as strange, and possibly a sign of ignorance.

His always blaming the players rings the same way with me. While I like that Vinny is letting the players be in charge (except for the food gaffe), there should at least be some responsibility taken by the coach – especially a first time coach who’s decided he knows enough to create all the offensive and defensive schemes by himself.

by YaoPau on Jan 13, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ive heard that too

That Vinny wants it to be his team

by Jscho316 on Jan 13, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

one coach quit, the other guy wasn't qualified

and now Vinny isn’t qualified.

It’s as much of a pattern of bad inexperienced coaches as it is players running them out.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles was run out by good players in Phoenix, too.

And that other guy wasn’t really a coach. And he definitely wasn’t “[run] out”. He failed the job interview following the season. Just the facts, ma’am.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Jan 13, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You know who should make a good leader?

the head coach.

by The90sBullsRevival on Jan 13, 2009 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yeah

but it’s bad when the head coach is the true “leader”, like skiles being the alpha dog. none of the guys really grew into a vocal leadership role then. one of them does need to do it, though the coach does need to demand the respect of his players.

by Jaina on Jan 13, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We need to find a knew one, then

by bull83 on Jan 13, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Bulls don't make a trade

Then we should develope Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, & Thabo Sefolosha by starting them and keeping them out there for at least 30 minutes a game. It would be a win win situation. Either they suck a55 and we get in the lottery or they get used to each other and kick a55. The biggest problem this year is consistancy (both rotation and play).

by PricanStar on Jan 13, 2009 2:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

you can type "ass" on here

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Jan 13, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's true

but I didn’t know we could type a55

by YaoPau on Jan 13, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If a battleship game was 55 squares long

he would have sunk my battleship.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Jan 13, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Either way

VDN should be fired and never coach again.

by PricanStar on Jan 13, 2009 2:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

VDN

Fire his ass!

Woo, that felt good.

by PricanStar on Jan 13, 2009 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

FIRE VINNY HE ISNT PROTECTING THE BALL OR REBOUNDING WELL>>>>!!!!!

" Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. "

by Bushka on Jan 13, 2009 11:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Who says Vinny is not trying to develop Tyrus and Noah?

From the Sun Times

We’re developing those guys, and it’s going to take some time. We just have to stick together, believe in ourselves and what we’re trying to do out there.’

Go Figure! Does not playing them, or playing them limited minutes, part of any development process? I don’t think so…

by bull83 on Jan 14, 2009 8:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I know I wasn’t the one that notices this. Tyrus is getting inconsistent minutes, he has had a few double doubles and the last games, but Vinny takes him out at real dumb parts of the game and sometimes he can’t get in the rhythm of the game. I’m hoping he is fired soon, I do, think it’s coming.

by chi on Jan 15, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ty did get himself into a bit of foul trouble

at the beginning of the 2nd half, but that was no reason to bench him pretty much the entire rest of the game.

by Jaina on Jan 15, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You know what drives me crazy about this town?

There’s a tendency for media to always give liked coaches slack and brand the players bad. I’m watching Tribune live yesterday and heard David Schuster say that Gooden is the MVP of this team and that the team would be better served with 10 Drew Goodens . Can you believe that? And this from a guy that’s with the team everyday! Another guy said Rose was the MVP and you could do away with the rest. I bring this up because only in this town can a GM hire a guy that’s never coached and be given enough slack where it can be assumed that the players are the problem. Skiles started out terribly every year he coached this team and we watched players leave this team and play better in other places. Tha’t a sure sign of a coaching and organizational problem. Now we want to brand 22 year old (Tyrus), a guy who doesn’t get to play much (Thabo), and a guy who gives yoy 21 points a game (Gordon) failures? VDN is a terrilble coach. Period. And he isn’t in the position to be critisizing anyone at this point. This team just lost to the worst team in the NBA at home… enough said.

by Dils on Jan 14, 2009 9:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

holy moley.

I had not seen that. Add it to this and we have a pretty uninformed beat guy.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he isnt just lacking information, he must be lacking a brain

by reprisal on Jan 14, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately on the

I bring this up because only in this town can a GM hire a guy that’s never coached and be given enough slack where it can be assumed that the players are the problem.

Point is, yes I agree, only in this town can the players be called the problem….but we tried the coaching thing with these guys…..they ran Skiles out of town, and then decided to not perform at all last year….I don’t care that Boylan sucked, he sucked, but the effort was gone all year, they didn’t try.

This year we’re trying a bit, but the chemistry’s not there.

We need a trade to mix up the players. Vinny’s on a leash (maybe a retractible 16 ft leash right now given that he is new to the team and players and wasn’t like Boylan who worked on the sidelines for the team for several years). I hope Pax is on the collar though.

by majoyenrac on Jan 14, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs