[The Raptors are] still strongly against parting with Andrea Bargnani, but they're also looking to upgrade on the wing (Chicago's Andres Nocioni is a possibility) while trying to determine whether the Chris Bosh/Jermaine O'Neal experiment -- which hasn't worked out like a high-post/low-post combo as Toronto imagined -- can be salvaged or is best abandoned quickly.
My desperate attempt to find something positive on the day after the Bulls give the Thunder their second road win of the season.
10 months ago
your friendly BullsBlogger
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Oh, please let this happen.
PLEASE!!!!!!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 11, 2009 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I will be sad to see Andres Nocioni go
He’s been the lone Bull to give it 110% for his entire tenure. He plays hard, he does a lot of things for the team, he’s loyal….he’s paid too much, but that’s Paxson’s fault especially with Deng on the horizon.
THe Raptors would make a much better deal than the Bulls in a Bargnani for Nocioni swap…..
But all that said, I sadly would accept this trade even if it makes us less watchable and isn’t for the blockbuster player we need. Nocioni’s the better player of the two by a long shot and will be missed much more than this board care’s to imagine, but we need to do things to improve the team, and Noc’s contract given the state we’re in is one we have to rid….
Plus Bargnani’s height will give us an element we don’t have….and he is an improvement over big Aaron…..
WHo knows, both players may play better in new environments….
by majoyenrac on Jan 11, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The illusion of playing defense; and Hacking and Chucking
Nocioni?
*Running around to chase the ball while leaving his man alone to do it; He double teams players who do not warrant a double-team.
*Fouling a guy behind the three point line, often a guy who is NOT a threat from there.
*Whenever he doesn’t get a call when he is on offense, watch how often he fouls on the other end on the ensuing play down court.
*When he has the ball stolen from him, without any foul called, watch how often he will then foul in the next 10 seconds.
*Hacking with karate chops called more often than not this season;
*Ridiculous ratio of Blocking Fouls versus Charges Drawn.
*Chucking up 3 after 3 when he’s stone cold;
*Arguing every call ever made against him; Often not running back on defense when called for the offensive foul, instead, arms up in the air, sour face, screaming at an official.
*Arguing with teammates on the court (The Noah thing recently, Noah simply told him, “Guard your man.” that’s it…);
*Failure to see open players and not pass the ball;
*Favoring some teammates over others and so he doesn’t look for the guys he doesn’t like -
Before arguing this point, please, I have gone back and watched many games a 2nd and 3rd time (yeah, not easy sometimes!) and this is simply a fact!
Miss him when he’s gone????
Like a RASH…….!
P.S. O.K., but, the haircut is a BIG improvement! :-)
by rtblues on Jan 12, 2009 5:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure he hacks
And sometimes it is frustrating because he doesn’t need to do so, but he also hacks at times to stop easy buckets when other guys men are hit.
When Noc gets blown by or his man is left wide open, rewatch 8 out of 10 it’s because Noc switched and his counterpart didn’t (the offense forced a switch) and his counterparty (Ahem Gooden normally) is sitting out there guarding nobody, so then Noc doubles back and looks worse.
He had an off night in that awful 1-11 performance, but he wasn’t just chucking, he was taking good shots as part of the offense, just didn’t make any, and that was frustrating.
Noc will look a lot better when a team decides to play team defense.
he’s a tough player, who can shoot from the outside, drive a bit to the inside, play great zone and team defense, and while he’s not a good one on one defender, he does a lot of little things (stopping plays) etc to make up for it.
He’s had an off start to the year, but come on a bit more of late (sans the off shooting night of course).
THe Bulls are a mess, and Noc is not our biggest problem by a long shot. He makes too much $$, but that’s both because Pax offered it to him and also because Pax also gave Deng such a huge contract.
As for his play, nobody else on this team constantly plays as hard as Noc does every night. I mean Rose might sure, but Rose is still a passive Rookie. Ben Gordon has stretches of it, but at times still takes the D off.
I guess we agree to disagree.
DO I think he should be traded? Unforutnately yes I most certainly do because of our holes….and because he’s not the most talented. But the man plays hard, on a team that so often takes it easy…..
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 7:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
Something needs to happen, this season has been such a drag.
It should be Rose’s coming out party, instead it’s just more suck and inconsistency.
by POSEYHATER on Jan 11, 2009 2:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
DE-PRESS-ING
This season is getting so bad, I almost bought a Ben Wallace doll for 2 bucks. almost
"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.
by Belize on Jan 11, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great minds think alike. My proposal is pretty close to yours - see below.
Obtaining Kapono instead of Bargnani makes it easier to not sign Gordon. However, Bargnani with Rose does intrigue me. Kapono is a Good idea!
by chgobr on Jan 11, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty much the best possible trade that could happen right now
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 11, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
somebody post it to Paxdorf right now!!!
I want to read about this trade in the papers!
“Bulls finally make a highly expected move on their roster…”
imagine that!
by simonswiss on Jan 11, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec this trade people!!! Spread the word!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 11, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha i thought the same thing.
those exact three!
by chicago-homesick-blues on Jan 11, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can hear marv now
“Rose, dribble penetration…kicked out to Kapono…3!”
"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.
by Belize on Jan 11, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i can hear Funky King
Neil: “Gordon, drives, kicks it to Hinrich… KABOOM!”
Stacey: “Put your glasses on, that was Rose to Kapono”
"Turnovers - Official Dessert of the Chicago Bulls!"by Granny Waiters
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Why can't the bulls have a web site?Because they can't put 3 W's in a row!!!" by broseleay301
by chibullsfan03 on Jan 11, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the thing is, because i watch games on crappy online streamings,
i tend to accept Neil’s mistakes when he mistakes thomas for hughes or so… cause you can’t really tell on that crappy resolution..
And then i figure out Neil’s sitting on the front row 10 meters away from players…. haha then it becomes highly ridiculous!
by simonswiss on Jan 11, 2009 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I never new the mistakes when he was on the radio, but he’ll say things like Vince Carter shoots a three and hits it and then he’ll say Vince must have had his foot on the line (When Vince was a good 3-4 feet inside)…..every game there’s quite a few of them.
I like our announcers (TV) quite a bit. I do miss Johnny Red Kerr and am saddened to not see him do the half time thing much (perhaps he’s not well). But I’d take these two anyday over the Redd-Dore duo or the Redd-Dore-King trio (Stacey was terrible with those two, he’s far less annoying this year and actually is good alongside Funk)…
by majoyenrac on Jan 11, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A better deal for the Bulls in terms of salary space this season.
Involves moving the Bulls other overpaid small forward.
Deng, Hughes and Gooden for Kapono and ONeal. The Bulls take back on $26M while sending out $29M.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 11, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
come on dude
they’re not giving up on Deng so soon, nor should they. Any deal that involves Noc should be the goal here.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Jan 11, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you'd rather get rid of Deng than Noc?
Brilliant thinking!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 11, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say it was one or the other...
…I still want Noc to be traded as well…I just look at this as a way for the Bulls to move Deng’s $71M contract…
I understand that is difficult to give up on such a young guy, but I think its better to cut the losses now, move on and find a player who is a better fit for Rose…honestly, small forwards are a dime a dozen in the NBA…I think we can find a way to replace his 15 and 6 every night…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 11, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you reproposed the same trade w/ Deng swapped for Noc
and called it better. How is that not preferring to get rid of Deng?
by reprisal on Jan 11, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point.
I only thought it was better because the Bulls save so much more money by moving Deng.
But I didn’t mean it to be one or the other…I think they both should be moved.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 11, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it has anything to do..
with Deng fitting badly with Rose. It’s Deng fitting badly in Vinny’s “offense” (if you can call it that). If this team was using Skiles’ system, I think Deng reverts back to his old self. Vinny’s system removes Deng’s presence by default…that’s not fair to him or to the team.
Instead of Vinny constantly saying that Deng needs to do things to “find himself”…hey, Vinny why don’t you, uhhh I don’t know, COACH!
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Jan 11, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this is what i've been thinking about
how is Deng, who is often called a “slasher”, who is best moving without the ball, supposed to succeed in a system of, a high pick, 2 others stand in the corners, and 1 other stand near the arc and wait for the ball? Until somebody figures out this, we might not see much production from him.
"Turnovers - Official Dessert of the Chicago Bulls!"by Granny Waiters
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Why can't the bulls have a web site?Because they can't put 3 W's in a row!!!" by broseleay301
by chibullsfan03 on Jan 11, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take the new coach instead of the new SF
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 11, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
err yea, i didn't mean it to sound anti=deng
"Turnovers - Official Dessert of the Chicago Bulls!"by Granny Waiters
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Why can't the bulls have a web site?Because they can't put 3 W's in a row!!!" by broseleay301
by chibullsfan03 on Jan 11, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Terrible trade
Luol’s overpaid so far because he’s playing poor to start the year, but he’s far more valuable than what we get back and before he turned his ankle he was coming on pretty well.
If we can pull this off for Noc, sure…..sadly….
But perhaps the other trade would be plausible if nothing else works. Noc isn’t nearly as bad as yfbb wants you to think and with another defender on the court he’d look much much better:
Rose-BG-Noc-Tyrus-O’Neal with Kirk and Thabo getting plenty of time.
Kapono can shoot but that’s about it, he’s not good…and makes too much $$
by majoyenrac on Jan 11, 2009 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
If you want 6 years of injuries and fourth quarter disappearances, then Deng is your man. If you want financial flexibility and the chance of getting a cheaper player with real upside, unload him now. Another season of missed games and less-than-clutch performances and he will have cemented his “tin man” reputation. I want him out ASAP, but his value is much higher than what this proposed trade gets back. I’d want Bargnani in a trade involving Deng. If you think BG plays no defense, Kapono is a zillion times worse.
by Stay Chisel on Jan 11, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't considered that Luol would have higher trade value than Noc.
I thought it was a wash because of their contracts…but bringing Bargnani back would be better…at least he has something of an upside…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 11, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now that's a trade
I WOULD LOVE! I would say by to Noc sadly, but the others would be fantastic, especially in that we get $21.8M or whatever expiring next year. Hello D. Wade!!!
Plus I think we could win with O’Neal. He can do something Drew can’t: defend. And the way it’s going he might play just as many games…
by majoyenrac on Jan 11, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I read somewhere that Kapono has a player option for 2010-2011
by Mattchoo on Jan 11, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he does.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 11, 2009 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
O'Neal? Don't think so...
The guy is simply, not a winner, crappy attitude, and made Toronto worse.
Thanks but no thanks….
by rtblues on Jan 12, 2009 5:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm?
Are you under the impression that we’re going to trade our crappy, overpaid, unwanted players for a winner with a great attitude who makes his team better?
Sometimes you trade crap for slightly less crappy crap.
I’m all for this trade.
My name isn't Ron... I run a DJ and Karaoke business named Kidron Music... my name is Jesse...
by kidronmusic on Jan 12, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and it least this 'crap' plays defense!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 12, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which piece of crap are you referring too?
JO? I might agree, and add, at least this piece of crap is tall.
My name isn't Ron... I run a DJ and Karaoke business named Kidron Music... my name is Jesse...
by kidronmusic on Jan 12, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's the one.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 12, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes appears to be the primary site for the virulent cancer of selfishness spreading to other Bulls.
There appears to be almost unanimity to trade Hughes to get inside help. Sam Smith makes great points as to why we should be cautious before pulling the trigger for Kaman, Brad Miller, Dalembert, etc. I desperately want to rid us of the Hughes cancer. However, the more I realize the risks of these trades I wonder if it might be in the Bulls best interest to wait a year before the February 2010 trade deadline to trade Hughes.
For those of us wanting immediate relief I banked on Toronto’s loss today and tomorrow to help motivate them to trade Bargnani and ONeal for Hughes, Gooden and Nocioni. The consequences of obtaining Ben Wallace haunt this team.
by chgobr on Jan 11, 2009 2:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Its really unlikely though
for the Raps to give both big men for Hu***, Gooden, and Noce. I Think a deal for Kapono and O’Neal would be much more believable
by Rose1 on Jan 11, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That'd be absolute robbery on Pax's part
Rose1’s idea seems pretty realistic, and I’d love to see it happen.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 11, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The thought of Bargnani and Rose really appeals to me.
My impression is that Colangelo is reluctant to give up on Bargnani. Bargnani is also playing better recently. However, I would consider adding Noah to the mix ,whom I believe Colangelo was very high on, in an attempt to get Bargnani.
by chgobr on Jan 11, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
O'Neal does absolutely
nothing for me. I think people are remembering the all-star version, the one that no longer exists?
And you’re all forgetting to focus on the long term. Jermaine O’Neal or Brad Miller won’t get these Bulls far in the playoffs. (I doubt they’d get them there at all, if they do it’d be more a function of the “kids” coming on with the “poison” gone! But at least they’re not high $$$ contracts that go beyond 2010, a la Chris Kaman).
But Bargnani (though he may be every bit the “bust” Tyrus may be) is extremely interesting: Great range on his J and a better handle than Dirk. Is it absolute robbery (by Pax) if they get Noah though? This still leaves Pax with work to do if he plans to offer BG another $10M per year deal, however. (Although personally I think Ben just wants out, no matter what.)
Still, it’s the only kind of deal that makes sense to me. You want to get something to go with Rose in the future. There’s no future in O’Neal (or Miller, and Kaman is a trap). Bulls would give up the rebounding and (potential) defense of Noah for the offense (and potential stardom) of Bargnani. Plus pay him twice as much and include Gooden (expiring), which makes it harder to clear space for another offer that BG can turn down (LOL).
True, it’d be great to lose Noc’s deal, but shouldn’t that be possible without taking on O’Neal’s monster $$$ money? I can’t get all hyped over these other deals that are just sideways moves. Just lay down the law for Hughes, let Gooden expire if he can’t be dealt this year, and Hughes in 2010.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Jan 13, 2009 4:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jermaine O'Neal's
Only a great option for us because his salary freezes money on our books until the big free agent campaign of 2010…..and a big chunk of that $23.8M will or could be used that year, which would be great for the Bulls.
Plus in the interim, he can at least help us compete to an 8th spot in the East….but really the reason I like him is the salary hold. I don’t want us to have $4-6M in room and waste it on crap.
by majoyenrac on Jan 13, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crap
like re-signing Gooden?
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Jan 13, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy with O'Neal and Joey Graham as filler for Hughes, Gooden and Noc
Asking for Bargnani doesn’t hurt, but I don’t see hwy the Raptors would do that.
Here’s the biggest problem with any variants of this trade. John Paxson is an incompetent assclown of a dope.
Don’t believe me? Let’s go through it.
O’Neal is being shopped heavily. Hughes is being shopped heavily. They both have two years left on their deals. Both players fit needs on the other team. In addition, the Raptors need depth and help at multiple positions. Thankfully, they’ve also expressed past interest in Andres Nocioni. The simplest and most obvious variant of this deal is simply Hughes + Noc for O’Neal.
That helps us now by giving us a big up front, but one that can be predicted to miss time and allow for “kid development” and it frees up cap space in 2010. And it helps the Raptors immediately by giving them two big minute players for one who’s frequently hurt.
That seems to make pretty decent sense. Except it means the Bulls are sending out $20.8M in salary and taking back $21.4M in salary. Doesn’t sound like much, does it. $540k. Except we’re only $400k from the luxury tax threshold, which means if the Bulls made this trade, they’d be over the tax threshold by $140k and end up losing several million dollars.
This wouldn’t have been a problem, however, if we’d simply elected to waive Michael Ruffin before yesterday, and recoup most of the cap space he’s taking up. On the fly, it looks like if we’d have waived him, it would have saved about $440k off our cap. More than enough to cover the difference
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Jan 11, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Noce and Hughes out in the same move..
wow…. to me, its already most of the problems solved….
by simonswiss on Jan 11, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the idea of parting with Nocioni;
unfortunately, the Raps are already weak on the interior, and O’Neal’s loss would cripple them. The only way I see us getting ride of Noc is for a pure salary dump, something akin to Graham and Kapono.
The thing is, I’d still do that.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 11, 2009 3:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
although, sweet god,
if Paxson pulled that off, I’d be freaking ecstatic. My two least favorite players gone! In exchange for a center with some post game! who expires next year!
::sigh::
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 11, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and who can also play interior defense!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 11, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With O'Neal's injury problems and incredibly high salary I think Toronto sees getting rid of
O’Neal as somewhat of a salary dump. I may be wrong but if we do Rose1’s idea with Kapono and do not sign Gordon we should be within the cap next year. I’m like you and want this to happen bad so I may not be objective, but I do think O’Neal – Bosh is not working out.
by chgobr on Jan 11, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
MAKE THIS TRADE HAPPEN,
im already boucing up and down of excitement…. that’d be a fresh start and a new belief for the bulls fan base… no more empty seats, etc…
Come on Pax!!!!!! Let it happen!!!!! you know you want it! Rose throwing alley-oops to O’neal, or kicking out to the best 3 point shooter in the league!!! who needs gordon then?
by simonswiss on Jan 11, 2009 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just wanna see people get traded.
Mostly the old core.
Mr. Paxson you have been arrested for destroying the Chicago Bulls! Come out of the Betro center with your hands up! -then I woke up and we got 9 inches of snow.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 11, 2009 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm really tired of trade talk
I want action.
Mr. Paxson you have been arrested for destroying the Chicago Bulls! Come out of the Betro center with your hands up! -then I woke up and we got 9 inches of snow.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 11, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like this?
"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.
by Belize on Jan 11, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm......no
more like this but not quite like this? I remember my Bulls optimism being sky high this summer night. Baby Shaq and a young KG.
But that video did make me very depressed much like Bulls basketball. haha
Mr. Paxson you have been arrested for destroying the Chicago Bulls! Come out of the Betro center with your hands up! -then I woke up and we got 9 inches of snow.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 11, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A link might help right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sML-z3dbtwI
Mr. Paxson you have been arrested for destroying the Chicago Bulls! Come out of the Betro center with your hands up! -then I woke up and we got 9 inches of snow.
by ImmanuelKant on Jan 11, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Looking back, what a waste of a trade…didn’t keep Chandler, or Skinner’s beard and now we wish we had Brand ..
on a side note, Stern delivered that joke in the worst possible way
"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.
by Belize on Jan 11, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously, can someone email this trade proposition by Rose1 to KC Johnson
and beg him to hand it in to pax/vinny/JR, …
pleaaaaase!! this deal gets rid of the 3 worst fits in the bulls roster and allow a real start for new player developments…
DO IT NOW PAX!!!!!!
raa im getting too excited with this deal which will probably never happen!!!
heres the link to the sweetest deal= , somebody spread the word as illini15 said!!
by simonswiss on Jan 11, 2009 4:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i put the wrong link on, the one with Kapono is more realistic...
“http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=171135624562010615&teams=28282844&te=&cash=”
by simonswiss on Jan 11, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Dont trust ball players with a name like andrea
"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.
by Belize on Jan 11, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
always hilarious
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 11, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys,
I need some honest (unbiased) and knowledgeable insight on Bargnani.
Is he any good? I’ve never really study his game or watched him all that much. What is his best postion? PF or C?
by Mattchoo on Jan 11, 2009 9:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
is this John Paxson??
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on Jan 11, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No way he's a center -
he’s kind of stuck between 3/4.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 11, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bargnani is an enigma to me
i watched him a lot, trust me, actually seen him a few years ago. He’s big, skilled, decent athlete, it’s just his collection of skills doesn’t make any sense to me. He seems to prefer to hang at the three point line, get the ball, and either shoot (he’s got a nice touch, but not outstanding) or drive. He’s actually not bad at that, considering he’s a seven footer, he can take other bigs off the dribble, spin and finish with finesse or even a dunk here and there, and also find other players under the basket.
Yeah, and that’s that mostly, he’s a seven footer that’s not bad at driving. what can you do with that? Not that much probably. As far as d, rebounds, blocks, post moves, yeah, a bit, decent, not his strong suite.
Does he start at center for the Bulls? Probably. He’s better all around than Gray, and although he doesn’t score a lot in the post he can definitely score, his mid range jumper is good, better than Gooden’s maybe. But is he a good C? Not really. He was projected to be the next Dirk, but his shot is still not there.
by grillo on Jan 12, 2009 3:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
update from rumorpress.net
http://www.rumorpress.net/?p=66
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 12, 2009 8:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
interesting...
Hughes, Noc for O’Neal, do it! do it!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on Jan 12, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OH MY GOD!
I would love O’Neal nowadays because I think his expiring deal helps us so much now that D. Rose is so much more than we ever thought so early on.
I would hope after this trade the lineup is:
Rose
Gordon
Deng (get back Deng)
Tyrus (no more starting Drew unless:
O’Neal (with Drew starting only when the inevitable Jermaine injury happens).
And bring Thabo-Hinrich and Drew off the bench. 8 man rotation.
Maybe work out a draft day deal for Kirk…..if the pick is high enough.
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this would be great
I could live with a rotation of :
Rose /Hunter
BG/Thabo
Deng/Thabo
Gooden/Tyrus
ONeal/Noah
I would ideally like to get rid of Hinrich for an expiring contract in order to pay BG. If/when O’Neal is hurt start either Noah or Gooden and Tyrus. Gray could even give us 5 min if needed.
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on Jan 12, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Use Gooden to pay for Gordon
Play Tyrus at the 4 (Starting spot). Tyrus has looked good and like he’s getting it and with O’Neal up there to clean up the mistakes on D, Tyrus will only get better…..
I don’t want to see any more Aaron Gray barring an O’Neal injury….
Noah’s far more capable, and given how weak he is, better suited as a backup.
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
beat me to it
just getting ready to post the same thing. Even though JO’s legs are pretty much shot, you have to do this deal, ESPECIALLY if it’s for Hughes and Noc. It’s a positive in so many ways it’s incredible.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Jan 12, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a positive
bc even if he’s not what he was (and he doesn’t seem to be) he can play defense and make _rew look much more effective….
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I do think it's hilarious if this happens
That the Raptors once again take our most selfish player (Jalen then and Larry now). THis time they get a better Jalen in Larry Hughes—and much as we hate Hughes he’s hardly as bad as Jalen was for us that last year…..
Jermaine when not injured would be very effective on our team. I was against him before when it was 2 years ago the trade Deng, Gordon, Nocioni and HInrich essentially for Jermaine….but now if it’s Noc, Hughes, and a filler or even Thabo, I say book it (2010 here we come).
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the inclusion of
Drew in that deal makes the Bulls worried they’re giving up too much because we want Drew to expire to resign Gordon.
I mean I’d hate to think that the Bulls value Drew more than BG.
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, a few things about this.
If accurate, there’s a couple things to consider.
1. As I said above, Hughes/Noc for O’Neal puts us over the luxury tax. By playing around with fillers, I think there’s a way around it. Add Aaron Gray from our side and Nathan Jawai from there side, and we sneak in under the LT while not pushing them back over.
2. Judging by Victor’s comments, the Raptors don’t want to take on Hughes. As much as I’d like to be rid of Noc, I don’t see any freaking way we can do this trade without forcing them to take back Hughes too. I suppose some variant of Hinrich and Noc for O’Neal might get it done, but I think more can be gotten for those two. O’Neal is not without his warts, and the only other alternative I see at this point is to buy Hughes out. Yuck.
3. I can definitely see why the Raptors would want Gooden, but I can’t see how to give him over without a) killing our cap space for next year and/or b) putting them over the luxury tax. Unless they want to give up Bargnani too, but why would they give up both O’Neal and Bargnani. That’d be crazy. Likewise, taking back Jason Kapono would be pretty dumb for us.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Jan 12, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
After playing with the trade machine
(A lot)
Here is pretty much the only thing I can figure that
1. Keeps both teams under the LT threshold
2. Doesn’t completely kill any of our cap space for next year.
Hughes, Noc, Gooden, Gray
for
O’Neal, Parker, Graham
This still increases our team salary by $1.8M next year, so we probably need to figure out a way to get some savings by dealing Kirk, Thabo or our draft pick to have any chance of re-signing BG. But there’s time to deal with that issue, so I’d do this trade.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Jan 12, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like yours better :)
Not sure the Raps do it. Maybe sweeten the pot with Thabo for Solomon/Jawai.
As the season goes on, I’m more and more hoping Hinrich is just sent away for expirings instead of held around for Ben Gordon leverage. However they can always sign Gordon and not worry about the tax until May 2010, hope Hinrich gets his value up. But maybe Jerry doesn’t realize that they don’t actually assess the Tax until the end of the year, else he would’ve signed Gordon already.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 12, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this...
Toronto gets two starters out of it and the opportunity to evaluate the Gooden/Bosh combo for the remainder of the season…I think Noc would thrive playing with both Bosh and Calderon…impressively, the salaries on this deal do not significantly compromise either team moving forward…I mean the raptors add Noc, but with his front loaded deal, it will become a more fair contract as time passes.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, has to start with Hughes/Noc
Nice work figuring out #1.
Would you do this? I’m trying to figure out a way to get Gooden involved as I don’t see the Raps not getting a big back (if we can’t send the Raptors dissertations from the Aaron Gray fan club, of course). It’s luxury tax neutral (like $100k difference), but the Bulls do increase ’09 payroll.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 12, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While I like the idea of Kapono on the court.
As a spot up shooter with Rose…I don’t like his 2010 Salary…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
neither do the Raptors
he makes slightly less than Noc in 2010. Maybe since it’s a player option and a bunch of teams will have cap room he may opt out for a long-term deal?
That’s wishful thinking, but as I said it’s less than Noc, and runs a year shorter. Plus Kapono should remain bad while Noc will just get worse. I like the chances of unloading Kapono before 2010 more than Noc, if there is a 2010 plan.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 12, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am fine with this trade
But Kapono is an awful player, awful, truly awful. If there was a way to only bring him in on O and sit him on D, then sure, I’d like his spot up shooting ways, but he’s terrible and is a FAR worse contract than Nocioni……
Kapono’s not opting out, he’s making too much as is and won’t have any value beyond the veteran’s minimum……and even that might be a struggle in 2011.
I just want this trade to rid us of the Hughes (AHEM Ben Wallace problem) and Nocioni’s now a complete luxury that this crap team can’t afford to have.
I also would love to see Jermaine’s $23.2M expire going into 2010. Bulls will keep the fan base if we stay in this middling level. Reinsdorf should pull the plug, and O’Neal might really help us as at least an intimidating defender in the post. Make Tyrus our main PF won’t hurt either, and give our solid guards the chance to shine like they should with a cleanup guy fixing the defensive woes caused by being so guard oriented.
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd add in Thabo if it meant not taking Kapono back.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Jan 12, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I should also say that including Thabo is very difficult.
After re-adding the numbers, the trade I suggested above needs to be:
Hughes/Noc/Gooden/Gray (or Ruffin or Hunter)
for
O’Neal, Parker, Graham, Jawaii (or Solomon or Moon or Voskuhl)
If you add in Thabo and take out Gray, the Raptors would have to include two more of Solomon/Moon/Voskuhl), so you’re really starting to make a hard trade there. The Raps get 4 guys and trade 6, so the Bulls would end up having to cut Ruffin or Hunter. But I suppose it could be done.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Jan 12, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ooops
Or you can just subtract Gray
Hughes/Noc/Gooden
for
O’Neal, Parker Graham
works, but the Bulls are under the tax by only $14K or something, and while I think my numbers are right, that’s not much margin for error.
The Bulls would be in danger of crossing the LT just to sign a 10 day emergency player.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Jan 12, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OH HELL YES
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 12, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noc and Hughes for JO would be the best Bulls news since drafting Rose.
Noc and Gooden for JO would also be acceptable.
by Granny Waiters on Jan 12, 2009 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where there's smoke there's fire...
don’t know if this has been posted yet, but that rascally Tech9nine is at it again, his “insider info” pointing to a Raps-Bulls deal…
though one I wouldn’t want to see made.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
well i hope
bulls stick to their guns that they’d be giving up too much to get o’neal unloading noc, gooden, and tyrus… we can’t get rid of 3 4’s for one 4/5 who is chronically injured.
by Jaina on Jan 12, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I love the deal at first glance
You’re right, it clears up nothing in the backcourt so the team is still not addressing their biggest problem.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 12, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right
i just don’t see how this deal gets done without hinrich or hughes. hopefully hughes.
there is definitely a conceivably good trade to be made out of this… but that particular combo just isn’t it.
by Jaina on Jan 12, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's such a shame, too, in the self that the guard logjam
is all in VDN’s head. Hughes blows. Bench him – no more logjam.
::dusts off hands::
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true!
I think some combo of the Bulls/VDN/Larry have brainwashed me into thinking Hughes has to play 20-25 minutes a game. I need to go see a psychologist to have this cleared up.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 12, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I just found Matt's dream-trade.
hmm….
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 12:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
But what of the headband rule?
Surely Paxson has to allow Jermaine to keep that salty sweat out of his eyes…but then can the other players wear them too?
/can wait to see Kirk/Aaron in headbands
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 12, 2009 12:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
oh god, I forgot about that
JON needs the headband to try and hide the immense size of his forehead.
This franchise sucks.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 12, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought the headband rule was Skiles?
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 12, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, it's Reinsdorf's
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 12, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, good thing JO doesn't have a no-trade clause!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 12, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dammit
/can’T
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jan 12, 2009 12:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
One thing I'd love to see
is to take the money we’d save from JON’s contract and give near-to-the-max for Paul Millsap. That guy will probably go for 18-12 next year – for the next five or six years, really – all while playing really tough man-to-man.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 2:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He's restricted.
The Jazz will match and let Boozer “I am opting out” walk.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is restricted,
but i don’t know if they go to the max for him.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We would have to overpay quite a bit
and I would be fine with it.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, you want to pay Paul Millsap the max?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Jan 12, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would've,
but now it’s a moot point, since JON will take his player option and we can’t offer squat.
I realize it’s overpaying – but I’m thinking on the basis of his PER (21+), age (23), and defense (good), that he’s worth overpaying for. I don’t have a problem with exorbitant contract, as long as you get good production out of them. Doesn’t have to be perfect – just very good.
And with this crap-heap Pax has constructed, you’ve basically got to overpay.
I’m losing hope here. Help me out, fellas.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
O'Neal has a player option for next season
the Bulls are not going to be able to offer Milsap anything but the MLE
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 12, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Boozer has a player option.
If he continues to be hurt, he’ll probably take the max deal for next season and then be a FA in 2010.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 12, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer said he was opting out.
And we have seen with both Elton Brand and Gilbert Arenas, injuries the season before free agency have little effect on the contract received.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But now teams
Have seen what happens to those teams when they take a risk on the injured players…..
Boozer’s best bet is to not opt out I bet, unless he comes back in mid Feb and is the leader for the Jazz through the playoffs………
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget,
“It’s the economy, stupid.” also.
by CJ Bulls on Jan 12, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get this comment per se
But catch the sarcasm and I concur.
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And if he doesn't opt out,
the Jazz won’t be able to resign Millsap…
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 12, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No no no
I’d rather see us give the max to a more proven guy like Bosh/Wade. We can give Millsap maybe Deng’s money if he keeps it up, but it would be 2 years either way (ONeal has a player option that he’d be ridiculously stupid to opt out of).
by majoyenrac on Jan 12, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OR...
My name isn't Ron... I run a DJ and Karaoke business named Kidron Music... my name is Jesse...
by kidronmusic on Jan 12, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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