Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes
by ChrisG on Jan 11, 2009 12:36 AM CST
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PrintI think it's fair to say that Gooden and Hughes represent the two major problems with this team. After watching tonight's OKC game, think about how much time they spent on the floor at two logjammed positions.
Hughes: Even with Sefalosha out tonight, Hughes' is a constant blackhole on offense. While he makes the occasional strong transition move, more often than not, the ball is moved around the circle only to be stopped at Huges who tries a pathetic move in order to get space for an ill-advised shot. He offers no help to the quick Derrick Rose offense that Vinny is supposed to be implementing. His name and contract are dictating that the Bulls use an overly-complicated and inneficient rotation.
Gooden:He is taking time from Thomas. Give Thomas 18 shots, and he'll find 18 points. Gooden's first half shooting, which must have looked something like 2-12 from the field, from excruciatingly frustrating offense. He too is a black hole. I'm tired of the ball moving back and forth, only for Gooden to recieve it, stop, hold it, cross it over and take a jumpshot. This is the exact same concept we hate on Thomas for. The difference is, Thomas can pull it off better and is actually a threat to drive. Until he leaves, Thomas can't possibly get a chance to play as a real PF in this league.
I hope the 40 minutes both guys played tonight are signal for a trade, and Vinny was just showcasing them. Because they are the reasons we lost tonight. Them playing 40 minutes put us in the league of OKC. And if you watched the game, it's hard to complain.
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How ironic to recall
the jubilation of 99% here when Wallace was traded. Never mind the warning I made that “you just traded one problem for two”. I don’t understand how anyone could still delude themselves into believing Gooden is helping (only Know sticks up for Hughes!), when it’s clear the defense is the problem, and these two don’t play it!
I don’t know when we ever “gave Thomas 18 shots”, but I don’t think he “found” 17 points that night vs BOS! But if Drew Gooden is indeed any better than TT, it’s by such a slim margin who gives a f*ck? Bulls are 1-1 at home against NBA cellar dwellers since Drew’s “stabilizing” return. I’d expect that team “performance” to continue, which puts us squarely in the mix at the league’s bottom. It sounds like you’ve the same beef with Gooden as me: He’s in the way of TT’s 4th Qtr mins!
When traded for, I said to please NOT play these guys. After all, we sent Wallace packing to rid ourselves of his negative influence and clear minutes for the youth (or so it was thought). But (Pax?) immediately declared Gooden “a starting PF in this league”, and Hughes made the starter claim for himself…. and nothing has changed to date.
Still, I think there’s too much wrong with the team at this point to cure it all by sitting Larry and Drew. (Besides, Gooden is clearly better than Noah right now. But then he’s defending at C, and oh oh, here we go again….) I’m just sayin’ it’s a mistake to sign him to an MLE+ contract for the coming years. Better to trade him for a late 1st before the deadline.
And Hughes’ needs to be swapped for another “bad” expiring contract. ASAP.
On principle, I disagree that those two were the reasons we lost. Rebounding and Defense were my two reasons.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
One problem for two
But those two problems have shorter deals.
He should not be called Drew
he has no D. He is rew Gooen.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan
by bennythebull on Jan 11, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
Looking at the schedule and the way the Bulls are playing, they will likely finish
between 10- 35 and 15-30 down the stretch, so the season is basically lost.
Might as well showcase Hughes until the deadline in hope of trading him for crap players who will sit on the bench and collect fat paychecks without complaining.
If either Gooden or Hughes are still on the roster past the trade deadline, put them on the inactive list for the rest of the season. We are better off watching players who MIGHT have a future with the team play.
This eerily reminds me of the last days of Wallace.
In that there was no reason for him to be on the court, except to show other NBA teams that he was still in the league. I have a strong feeling the only reason Hughes plays is because Paxson is trying to trade him. So, we have to suck it up, boo him at home and cross fingers that someone will bite before February 19th. I think Drew Gooden, unfortunately, gets minutes because there is no one better than him in the frontcourt, and that is not a testament to Drew’s amazing array of post moves, but rather an indictment of Noah, Thomas and Pax.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 11, 2009 7:34 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I propose Hughes
be traded for this .
by Granny Waiters on Jan 11, 2009 8:30 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Isn't google image the best?
How long did it take you to find that shit picture? Like,15 seconds? What a time to be alive.
Won't we have to give up
at least a fture draft pick also to make that deal work?
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan
by bennythebull on Jan 11, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
Hughes hurts us in all facets of the game
Can’t shoot. Horrible shot selection. Awful in the fast break. Can’t finish.
The worst part is he thinks he can do all of these things but a simple video viewing of his play would show him how terrible he really has become.
Larry Hughes will have made more money in the NBA than Wilt, Russell, Bird, and Magic combined when his career is finished. This is a historical travesty.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 11, 2009 8:53 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
But everyone should be telling Larry that he’s a poor player right now. That spirit of disillusion has to be crushed out of him. That’s not going to come with people patting him on the back.
He seems like the guy you can never give any positive criticism to because it goes right to his head and supplants all the negative.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 11, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
seriously?
the only reason you want gooden to leave is so that thomas can shoot the ball 18 times and “find’ 18 points? thomas averages about 5 minutes less per game than gooden, however, comes nowhere near close to the gooden’s level of production. do you think that if gooden leaves, thomas becomes ‘better’ than he is because he will play more minutes? the reality is, if thomas can’t find his niche with this team, he’ll be gone long before gooden packs his bags. gooden is the bulls only viable frontcourt dumpoff option right now, so yes, the bulls run some plays for him. he’s not a superstar, but he’s probably the best complimentary player the bulls have on this "me-first” team. thomas’ ceiling would be AS a complimentary player, but to date, i don’t know if he can achieve even that. so swapping out gooden just to push all-in on thomas would be a mistake.
We need to move Gooden
because his big body is out of position all the time on the high screens. If he’s setting the screens he’s stepping out to put up an 18 footer. If he’s off the ball and Noah is setting the screen he is camped in the paint taking away the dribble penetration.
Drew might have numbers you like to see, but we don’t have victories to show for it because of what he has to do to get those numbers.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 12, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Gooden doesn't look to bad, last night would have been a blow out without Gooden
and Tyrus replacing him with minutes and shots. Gooden actually looked like a starter in the NBA, unlike Tyrus and Noah who never have. A Blow-out not in the Cows favor.
If Gooden and Gordon are gone next year, without scoring replacements, this team will win a total of 10-12 games next year, even with an all season, if possible (healthy Deng), and Hinrich.
man up!
except Tyrus wouldn't replace the shots
Gordon and Rose would
using Gooden as the go-to guy in the 2nd half…well we got what we should expect. I’m sure Gooden enjoyed it, anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 11, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Yes.. While Gooden was hurt.. Rose and Gordon put up many shots and we lost more games than won
man up!
so glad Gooden returned
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 11, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Thinking Gooden is a problem is a mistake
Yes, he plays no D. And what about Noah and Gray? Have they been playing good defense? NO. Plus: both suck on the offense.
I can’t believe you said that Gooden is taking minutes from Tyrus. Because, from my point of view, Gooden plays the 5 when Tyrus is on the court. So, I think it was Noah who stole Tyrus minutes against OKC. We lost that game because of Noah and his poor offense. He only scored from dunks and tip ins. By the way, I would like to know when did Tyrus start to take better jumpers than Gooden… At least, their jumpers are similar.
In Hughes case… well… You said it all.
Think about this
Gooden gets minutes because Noah and Gray and Thomas are worse? So what. Look at the record. Play Drew get to 30 wins. Don’t play Drew get to 20, maybe 40, who knows?
We know what we can get with Drew Gooden and his expiring contract means he’s gone after this season. We really need to know exactly what we have with Thomas and Noah, and even Gray, because they have better contracts that extend beyond this season.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 12, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
I already know what we have with Noah
Noah sucks. Ok, he can rebound. So what? Gray can rebound too. But neither one can score. Period. I never wanted Noah in the first place. So, trade him…
I know Gooden is not great. He doesn’t play defense, but he can help on the offensive end. I just cant understand why people complain about him and say he’s taking minutes from Tyrus, when he’s playing at C. If I were Pax, I actually would offer him a MLE contract. But only after signing with BG.
Gooden can't score either
Don’t let his 13.5 shots per game fool you. His .515 career TS% (.511 this year) has hurt us and every team he’s been on. There’s a reason he’s about to get traded to his 5th team in seven years.
At least Noah plays some D and rebounds.
Yeah, Noah is great :s
C’mom. He only does that, nothing more… Besides, he was one of the last ones to learn the few plays that we have and didn’t work at all during the summer. If you like a guy like this, go ahead and defend him. I don’t and if I were Pax, I would try to trade him for something better. Like Hawes, for instance
It's only noah's second season.
I’m confident that he’ll work out a lot this summer, especially with the boos.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Dils
No matter what Gooden gives you offensively, it’ll never make up for what he gives up defensively. Tyrus Thomas in the last month has been giving you everything that you wanted Ben Wallace to give you 2 years ago. He’s blocking shots, grabbing rebounds, and playing great help defense. Why in the world would you not play the kid more than you play Gooden and Noah?
Tyrus and Gooden
My point about Drew was that if he’s playing the 4, and Gray/Noah are at the 5, we lose the best complement to Rose in our offense. Whether or not Thomas is a great scorer, one can’t deny his defensive prowess, transition skills (it’s refreshing to see a big man not drop a pass in transition, but Tyrus also looks very competent putting the ball on the floor and letting things develop), and passing skills (the most underrated part of his game, hes really a terrific passer in the post).
I think these skills work very well with Rose on the floor. When Tyrus actaully is involved in the offense, the ball moves quick (but how often does he never even get the chance to touch the ball before Gooden is crossing it over, trying to break his man down 15 feet from the hoop, id rather Thomas doing it, for no other reason than its about as effective, and I think he can improve). I just don’t see a whole lot on the offensive end that Gooden does spectacularly better, its not as much taking PT away from Thomas, as much as it is touches.
Plus he sucks at defense.
by ChrisG on Jan 12, 2009 3:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
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