RumorPress.net: Gordon to take Qualifying offer
UPDATE(9/29): KC Johnson confirms.
I thank Ben for giving me something to keep fixated on during the dog days of the offseason. But now that it's the eve of training camp, it really was time to make a decision of the long-term deal or the one-year qualifying offer. After all indications over the weekend (including the opinion of Paxson) suggested Gordon taking the QO, famed Bulls net rumormonger 'techn9ne' reports that he will indeed do so:
Gordon will be with the team for at least one more season as he has verbally agreed to take the 1 year qualifying offer worth 6.4 million. Gordon turned down a 6 year 59 million dollar offer and will become an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. The 6 foot 3 Guard could make it official as early as Tuesday.
If true, it's a bad finish to a mostly dormant negotiation, completing two offseasons where Gordon and the Bulls couldn't come to an agreement. But a holdout or a sign/trade for contract filler would've been even worse.
Under the QO Gordon cannot be traded this season without his consent (which would eliminate his Bird rights, so very very doubtful) and he will become an unrestricted FA next offseason.
Gordon is now a test case under the current league CBA. No player of his caliber has ever taken the qualifying offer. So while the previous examples all ended poorly both for the player and the team involved, perhaps Gordon will be the one who breaks the mold: with a fine season rewarded with a fine contract.
The big question now is how the Bulls handle the rest of the roster knowing that while they have Ben Gordon, it's with no guarantees beyond this season. Do they treat Gordon like he's gone next season and make sure they cover their bases even if it means not clearing salary and roster space? Or do they give him opportunity to earn the fat contract he wants with a bounce-back season?
The post quoted above speculates that now big man filler can be signed with Gordon's payroll figure for this season settled, but I'd prefer dealing Hughes for that filler (even if they can't play. heck, Juwan Howard can't play either) to at least signal to Gordon that they won't hold his demands against him at the expense of the team and try and pass off a triumvarate of Hughes/Hinrich/Thabo as a legitimate rotation at shooting guard.
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I hope this rumor is unfounded.
As this is the worst case for both parties. Gordon is leaving over $52 million guaranteed on the table. I hope that his selfish play does not become a cancer in the locker room and distraction on the court next season as he is trying to earn that money. I also hope that Gordon does not pull a Shaun Livingston, destroy his body and miss out on a lot of money. If this rumor is true, this is a sad day for both the Bulls and Ben Gordon.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 1:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I love how it's all on Gordon to "not be selfish"...
…coming off a season in which he ended it playing fewer minutes per game than several guys who he’s clearly better than.
The Bulls will have a much more obvious incentive to fuck around with his minutes at odds with everyone’s supposed mutual interest (winning games) than he has to do something untoward.
If he acts like a douche, he gets labeled a douche. If he just keeps his mouth shut and the Bulls have the iffy season we mostly expect them to, and it’s clear he’s going to leave, he gets benched for a variety of lesser players.
In fact, even if he doesn’t act like a douche, his every glance, every nick, and every shot will be hyper-analzed for evidence of “selfishness”, and a host of people will label him a douche anyway.
So at the end of the day, we can expect to proceed through a bullshit filled season at which point Gordon leaves for nothing and probably takes significantly less than he’d gotten from us.
Yuck.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did kind of force this issue..
The idea that he should be the highest paid player on a team that needs improvement drastically at the positions that we do, and also to demand money that makes the team have much much less room to make moves through trades/free agency…well, I hate to see a good player leave, but if he’s going to demand Deng money…well, I have to say that sure he scores more, but Deng is a better asset to our team than Gordon, and I personally feel that Gordon could be replaced easier than Deng.
I’m all for trading him if he’s up for it, and I think that we could use Hughes/Thabo/the third player in a possible trade and be better off.
"..what you mean? I'm a legend like Kareem!"
by CommittedToExcellence on Sep 29, 2008 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For as good as Deng is
I’m very unsure we’d see much difference in W/L record if he wasn’t here and I’m pretty sure we’d see a difference without Gordon.
I agree that in some sort of abstract sense, Deng, who’s younger and more well-rounded ought to be considered “better”, but when the rubber hits the road it’s all about who helps you win games.
There are always two sides forcing an issue. It’s speculation to assume he wouldn’t have taken a better deal. Or reacted differently if his last couple years with the Bulls (and their public statements) had been handled differently. At this point my belief is that he’s simply willing to take a chance of a significant loss of cash to be out of that situation.
I don’t know what to believe about the Bulls. Everything indicates they seems to want Gordon a significant amount. But they’ve pretty consistently jerked him around on the court, and at this point the odds of his return look extremely slim. The odds of enduring a bunch of nonsense this season look very high. What do the Bulls expect to get out of it?
I think if I were Pax, I’d say hold on to the QO for a couple more days, and I’d probably try to mount a firesale sign and trade. The Knicks have made an S&T offer involving Marbury, and I think if I were the Bulls, I’d rather get a future pick or some cap relief than go through a lame duck season with Gordon.
Of course, my first preference would be to keep him, but given that they don’t appear inclined to up their offer, the smart move is to go ahead and pull the bandaid off instead of letting this fester for a year.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it would be preferable to keep him, but this whole money issue is the one that sticks for me. He’s got a way way overinflated opinion of his worth to the team, and it seems delusional at this point, considering that he can’t seem to buy his way off the bench at times, and other times he’s starting. If he can’t see that he’ll likely be a 6th man everywhere he goes, as an undersized 2 guard with streak jumper and little to no handle, then he’s not worth the time or the money that a team would spend on him.
"..what you mean? I'm a legend like Kareem!"
by CommittedToExcellence on Sep 29, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon "leaving and taking less from another team"
…is his fault, though.
I hate that this is going to be hanging over our heads all year. Regardless, Hughes needs to go. Too many SGs that feel they need to be on the floor at all times. This could get really ugly.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Sep 29, 2008 3:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if it's true
I’m hoping Gordon doesn’t take the QO, but the fact that we now know he is going to report for training camp makes me think it is true.
by Jamaicanpi on Sep 29, 2008 6:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GIVE GORDON THE TIM THOMAS TREATMENT!!!
The last thing the Bulls need is another funky season due to “chemistry/minutes distribution” issues. Especially, no w that the Bulls have Rose. Keeping a selfish, over-his-head prick is not good to have around a #1 Pick
by Agusnico on Sep 29, 2008 4:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever
seen Gordon be any of those bad things? I don’t think so. I doubt he will be now. Every reporter out there says Gordon will not be a trouble maker. On the other hand, fans are always quick to take on those qualities themselves when they feel a player has wronged them.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Sep 29, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Selfish players
don’t show up for media day (today) and training camp when they don’t have to. He could have sat out this time if he wanted to make a statement. I just think Gordon generally values himself higher than the Bulls/rest of the NBA does. I don’t have a problem with it, he’s just wrong at this point in time. I just wish he’d “settle” for a little less than he wants. He is one of the more positive things/players going on with this team.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can they still sign him during the season?
Say, for example, they trade someone else like Hughes. If he signs the QO will he have to be a unrestricted FA next summer?
by hhirb on Sep 29, 2008 6:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The window for all contract negotiations in the NBA ends upon the start of the season.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Sep 29, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not quite true.
Remember Varejao did wait till after the season started before signing a contract. He had first not accepted to take the QO, though.
The question here is : can Ben still negotiate for a new contract after agreeing to the QO ? Probably not, but I honestly don’t know.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on Sep 29, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, should have qualified that, negotiations w/ players under contract
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Sep 29, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again
I think you could say its not “very, very doubtful” he’ll get traded. It’s happened before (Radmanovic) and if the Bulls say to him, look, after last summer we’re not going to resign you and we’re not going to sign and trade you then Gordon would be hard pressed to veto a trade. Plus if the Bulls are out of it by that point, they might well say “we’re going in a different direction so if you want minutes you’d better let us trade you” and given that he’s playing for a contract, again, it probably wouldn’t be smart to stop a trade in that situation.
To be honest, if the Bulls get any good offers for Gordon near the trade deadline, I think they’d be stupid not to make these threats because if Gordon doesn’t give his consent, than they can always go back on them at no cost.
by JSlakov on Sep 29, 2008 6:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you're right
maybe I should’ve added another ‘very’. Radmanovic wasn’t gunning for $12m a season.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think it's doubtful,
the only way is if the Bulls refuse to resign him at any cost. And that won’t happen. If he gets traded, he can’t sign for over the mid-level from either the team he’s traded or to or even the Bulls anymore. It would be a lose lose situation for him. He’d be shrinking his own market. He’d be better off getting Tim Thomased for the rest of the year.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I don't get why the Bulls would want to eliminate the possibility
of them doing a sign/trade with Gordon after the season. Not that they’d plan to, but why shut off the possibility? I’m not sure if base-year-compensation would apply in that situation (as it would’ve this summer), but I don’t think it would.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it. I thought th QO was a automatic thing not really a bulls thing. Its on the table, and its
on Ben if he takes it, without him signing it the only way for a sign and trade next off season is if he takes the longer offer which he won’t do, these are all ben gordon’s decisions.
by Ibleedbullsred on Sep 29, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's automatic
in the sense that they don’t agree on a long term deal so that’s the only other option. If he takes it, he will be an unrestricted free agent next year. As an UFA, the bulls can sign and trade him next offseason or he can just sign elsewhere. The Bulls do not have the opportunity to match.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they wouldn't be eliminating anything
if they traded him during the season, they’d obviously be getting something back and not having to worry about finding someone to pay him the exorbitant amounts he wants. If he vetoed the trade, they’d still have his bird rights and all sign and trades would go through them. By telling Ben that they’re not going to resign him or sign and trade him and that if he vetoes a trade then they’ll bench him, they’re bluffing yes, but they lose nothing by making that bluff. If he vetoes a trade, then come summer, Ben will still want a sign and trade if no one with cap space will sign him and will need the Bulls to do it.
If I was in Ben’s situation and already know there’s not a lot of demand to pay me the money I want, and was threatened to lose my minutes, the only way I can prove that I’m worth that money, then I’d have to at least think about allowing a trade if the situation seemed right.
by JSlakov on Sep 30, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what are they getting for him?
the team that trades for him is only renting him. They won’t be under the cap (most likely) so they’ll have to let him go as a free agent. You’d be lucky to get a 1st round pick out of that.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 30, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
but what are they gonna get from a sign and trade either? At this point its take what you can get. I think a contending team would be more likely to give up something for a rental of a really dynamic scorer who could be the difference in the playoffs than anyone would be willing to give for the right to overpay him to a huge longterm deal this summer.
by JSlakov on Sep 30, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see where either side had much choice
This convinces me about what seemed obvious: it’s a true disagreement of Ben’s market value. The Bulls want him, but not as a franchise type player. Ben thinks of himself as such, and only has to find one team that views him that way. If he’s correct about his value, he won’t have trouble finding a buyer. I don’t expect VDN to do anything other than what’s best for the team looking through a 2-3 year window.
Logic would indicate that this is to let Hughes and Thabo settle the starting job on the court, with BG playing the 6th man role to the degree he doesn’t hurt the team trying to either enhance his value or pay back the Bulls through deliberate poor play. In short, I expect Ben to play his best and VDN to use him generously. Spite wouldn’t serve either party’s interest. Good luck, Ben, Pax, and the entire Bulls community.
by California Al on Sep 29, 2008 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i appreciate the professionalism that gordon seems to have
despite what i see as obvious delusions of his worth. i wish the bulls could keep him but i see the price they’re offering as perfectly fair. even though it often seems like i’m down on gordon i like the guy and would love to see him continue to play for the bulls. at the end of the day if next season rolls around and he does get a huge contract, i’ll probably be glad we’re not the ones paying it – but i wish him luck and i hope that he’s able to earn it.
by Jaina on Sep 29, 2008 9:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
This was never about BG, the person, but always about what he was worth.
by hlac on Sep 29, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, this is on the assumption that the NBA is a free market
BG is worth more to the Bulls because he was their draft pick. It’s harder to get players from other teams, especially at correct ‘worth’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand Gordon's thinking
but he should have signed the long term deal. Too much risk of getting hurt, and it’s a gamble to hope to have a strong enough season so that he gets a big time deal. Odds are, he gets offered next year what he was offered this year.
by RogersPark Kris on Sep 29, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I still cannot believe he is going to take the QO.
It seems Gordon has more to lose than gain. Injury, a poor season, the economy impacting the NBA next year risk him losing a great deal of money signing the QO. The benefit of the QO is that he has a breakout season and gets 2-3 mil more per season. That is the best case scenario. What can you buy making 12 mil that you cannot get at 9.8 mil? Nothing worthwhile! I think this is a terrible risk to take. I’m still hoping he comes to his senses and takes the Bulls offer.
by chgobr on Sep 29, 2008 10:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A starting spot for one...
that’s what Hughes got. And Wallace for that matter. Money does equal playing time and future prospects on many teams.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Sep 29, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my worst fear
that he comes to his senses.
by hlac on Sep 29, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could feel good about this
I love BG and want him to stay, but is there really any way the Bulls can deal Hughes’ contract? I just don’t see it happening.
Besides, Hughes is everything the Bulls want in a shooting guard: he shoots a lot, had numbers in the steals department several years ago (which clearly means he can play D) and he’s 6’5.
[Nope, that didn’t do it. I can’t talk myself into Larry Hughes for the life of me.]
by ToroToroToro on Sep 29, 2008 10:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gordon's more of a "gamer."
He isn’t afraid to take the last shot and makes a lot of them. Can’t get to the basket very well but Rose can and they should work very well together.
Jordan was the ultimate “gamer.”
by hhirb on Sep 29, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I've seen his statue and everything
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He sure isn't afraid to take the last shot
But I don’t remember one of them he made last year . .
I think you’re referring to that “6th man” year
by Option27 on Sep 29, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not entirely fair...
The “6th man” year he actually had a productive supporting cast (even Noc commanded limited attention on defense at times). Last year he was mostly on an island with the clock running down, and the “coaching staff” did little to nothing to ease that situation. Plus, they weren’t nearly as good last year as the year before so there simply weren’t as many “last second” moments available. If memory serves me we were usually in the process of blowing a lead, or too far behind in the 4th qtr anyway. If however there was another player you feel that should have been taking those last second shots last year I sure didn’t see it. Who do you think it should have been?
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on Sep 29, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also had him try to handle the ball too (which didn't work)
but with Rose he should be able to do what he does best—shoot!
by hhirb on Sep 29, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
$60 million security blanket
I don’t know much about BG off the court, but can anyone imagine what your wife would say if you left 54 million on the table. I would want the security, but thats me. I really hope that he stays healthy because he has always seemed like a good guy, but how do you not take 59 mil over 6 years.
Does anyone remember Jamal Lewis of the Browns playing in his contract year? He was a horrible runningback that year because he was so afraid to get hurt it effected his game.
by Jesse07 on Sep 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because...
Well, to do badly, he has to make <= $53M after next season.
And that’s just if all he cares about is money. Which he’s been accused of several times. But it seems likely to me that he probably also cares about not getting jerked around.
I find it ironic how the average fan in one context says a player shouldn’t be so concerned over a few million one way or the other, but at the same time, he thinks the player should always take top dollar no matter the situation.
If you’re a multimillionaire either way, maybe you give up a few to play in a situation you’re comfortable with. The main risk in doing isn’t injury, it’s the possibility the Bulls (continue to) jerk him around. But hey, they’re a bunch of righteous Dudley Do-Rights who always do the right thing by everyone else. that could never happen :)
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
maybe that’s why he demanded so much money. If he’s the highest paid player on the team there’s no way they keep with the ‘bench player’ shenanigans?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shenanigans?
What team would Gordon be guaranteed a starting spot for the length of his contract at? What team would even guarantee him a starting spot next year?
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, a few
but the Bulls of ‘04-’08 would’ve been on that list. But they did play up the ‘bench player’ angle and now are scratching their heads as to why Gordon may feel slighted. (if they care enough to)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true.
But, no, I don’t think they care enough too. I’m pretty sure they understand but do not care.
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand how the Bulls have jerked him around.
They made solid offer last summer when they did not have to offer an extension. The made another, larger offer this Summer. Gordon has declined both offers.
With that said, I am hopeful that Gordon and the Bulls will come to a last minute agreement of a shorter deal, say three years, $25 million, that way he is only leaving $34 million on the table, but hits the market sooner to get that max offer he believes he can earn.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they can't do a short term deal!
tax!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The length of the contract has no correlation with the tax.
The first year salary of the contract is the tax issue. A 3 year deal for $25 million, with max raises, gives Ben Gordon a first year salary of over $7.5 million and leaves the Bulls in the tax free zone.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But why should BG eschew $6 M QO for a 3 year deal that barely averages out over 8?
If he’s willing to work on a shorter term deal, he’ll be much more likely next summer to get over $10M he desires.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Sep 29, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say Gordon should...
…but I think it would be a better deal for both parties. Whether or not Gordon can get the contract he demands on the open market next summer remains to be seen. What a shorter deal does give him is greater long term security in case something happens to him…
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
he's only a year from sweet unrestricted free agency
I think by now he’d have to be excited at the possibility, risks and all. No need to fly out to Arizona to meet Reinsdorf, etc.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if it's a "better deal for both parties", that sounds like you think BG should take that 3 year deal
He’s certainly taking a risk by taking the QO, but he’d likely be taking a bigger risk on that 3 year deal. More time on a less than desirable (for BG) contract creates more opportunities for something bad to happen and restrict his future earnings. If he’s going to take less than he wants, he should do so for as short a time period as possible.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Sep 29, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also takes control out of his hands
Suppose Gordon would rather play for $40M in Miami than $50M in Minnesota. If he signs a shorter term deal that makes him tradeable, he then gets shipped to Minnesota.
The other thing to think about is where Gordon is in the long run. He’s 25 and if he signs a 6 year deal next offseason (when he’s 26), it’d make him 32 when he signs the contract after that, or 30 or 31 if he’s got earlier opt outs.
That’s pushing it, but it’s not unheard of to sign a pretty significant deal at that age. But if Gordon signs a 2 or 3 year deal, then he’s looking at 33 or 34 when he signs a follow on contract beyond that, and that’s really pushing it.
If he signs a 2 or 3 year deal, then he’s 33 or 34 when he’s looking for that follow on contract, and there
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't quite get your point.
Gordon will be eligible for a max contract after seven years of service or at the end of a three year deal. That would be the best possible time for him to hit market to land a max contract, directly in his prime. It would likely be a six year deal, with player options for either year four or five…If he were to opt out, that would put him at either 32 or 33 for his final big contract. Really good players still get really big contracts at 32. If he signs six years with the Bulls now, he will likely only get one more contract, at age 31. So, his best chance for the max contract would the Summer of 11, at seven years of NBA service, at age 28.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it doesn't seem like
Gordon want to be a 6th man for the Bulls for six years and go into another contract negotiation with that stigma hanging on him. He does have another contract coming either way like you say, but with the Bulls it isn’t difficult to see he will have similar roadblocks down the way. Play elsewhere and he might fit in better there, get a starter spot, deal with better management, get a short deal…Gordon seems like an optimistic guy.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Sep 29, 2008 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I probably didn't say it well
Let’s not talk about a max contract, because that’s unlikely in any case. Keep it down to simply maximizing his money.
Put it this way.
If Gordon signs a 1 year deal now, he’s got a good chance of landing two more big contracts, for a total of 11 or 12 big payments plus this year’s deal.
If Gordon signs a 2 or 3 year deal now, he’s maybe only going to get one more big contract after that, for a total of 8 or 9 big payments.
There’s a lot of possibility for opt outs either way, so that can be fiddled with, but by and large I think he’s better off with a one year deal now. I can’t (yet) make this a neat looking blog, but which of these options is better?
by Sports2 on Sep 30, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, cred to you
I though you were just pulling that number out of the air. Anyway as others have pointed out, Gordon wouldn’t take that….though maybe if the 3rd year was a player option?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What did the bulls do to jerk him around?
They are willing to pay him more than anyone in the world. The have arguably one of the nicest GMs in the league, they have a great fan base and hired a coach he appears to like. I like Gordon but jerked around – that is absurd.
by chgobr on Sep 29, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice don't pay the bills
it would’ve been nicer for Paxson not to openly talk about needing a taller backcourt, and then offering him a long-term deal. Or allowing Boylan to give Hughes his minutes. That’s jerking around. Maybe Gordon doesn’t want to be locked in here, at any price, if he doesn’t know how the team sees him?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's speculation they were willing to pay him more
- The Bulls got S&T offers from two different teams. The “fact” that it was Gordon who turned them down doesn’t make sense in the context of a restricted free agent who’s surely been in contact with the offering teams. Said fact was also, as best I can tell, mainly promulgated by the Bulls’ in-house rumor monger.
- Even putting aside the various benchings prior to it, the Bulls spent the last couple months of the season running down his value. Pax ran his mouth on Gordon’s size making him a sixth man. They played him fewer minutes over the last two months of the season that all the other guards.
- Then they turned around and offered a contract that was scaled down from the one they offered previously (which, of course, they said was below market to begin with and was based on the expectation that Gordon give something up for “security” purposes). I mean, if you think that doesn’t matter, I think you’ve never been in a normal work environment. And the Bulls did come back (and never sway from) a salary cut. They offered him $10M last year and less than $10M this year. In my experience (and I do have some in figuring out how to compensate people) that’s a guaranteed way to lose an employee in short order. Even if they still work for you for a while, they’re guaranteed to mentally check out and have both eyes on the exit. It’s just human nature to take that as an insult.
- So Gordon goes into the off-season with every reason to think they’ve screwed with him, and he sees a variety of guys who (be honest now!) you spent the last several years you wouldn’t trade Gordon for. Maggette gets 5/$50M. Monta Ellis gets 6/$66M. Iggy gets $80M. “We can’t possibly trade Gordon for Pau Gaol! No freaking way!” Maybe some of you guys would quibble on a particular guy, but you know perfectly well that was the general sentiment, and probably John Paxson’s too.
So why on earth would Gordon turn around and accept a deal that pays him less per season than he was offered before, and than was offered to a variety of guys he’s heard (in practice from the team itself up until it was time to negotiate!) that he’s better than?
I suspect he looks at those guys and thinks, OK, even if I don’t make back quite what I would have made with the Bulls, I can go somewhere where the GM isn’t saying I’m too short to start and isn’t allowing my minutes to plummit for the sake of Chris Duhon and Larry Hughes.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The only jerking around I see at all...
Was last season after they traded for another SG. Every backcourt player on the Bulls had their minutes reduced in order to allow Boylan to try to raise the trade value of Larry Hughes. But, I would not agree that Gordon had his minutes reduced because of Duhon, because Duhon himself was benched with DNP-CD several games down the stretch last season…and Duhon got over $10 million guaranteed.
Some of the posters here are in denial that Gordon earned his sixth man status, and think that he was somehow slighted playing 30 minutes a night off the bench. When a guy wins the award for being the “Sixth Man of the Year”, that usually sends a loud signal to the rest of the league that he is in fact a sixth man…
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"raise the trade value of Larry Hughes"
No, Boylan was just an idiot. Or Pax was for thinking that playing Hughes would raise his value, or what practical level it could even be raised to.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boylan was an idiot.
…and I agree with your distaste of his handling of players last season. I am saying the perception at the time was they were trying to raise Hughes trade value. Or, perhaps, my lone perception.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an organizational motive
so you think Paxson told Boylan to give Hughes more PT to raise his trade value? That seems ludicrous, but if true yet another mark against Pax’s foresight.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kobe Bryant would be a heck of a 6th man too
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does winning Sixth Man award warrant branding him a sixth man for the rest of his career?
If anything, winning an award as the best guy off the bench should be screaming to the rest of the league, “this guy’s good enough to start.”
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Sep 29, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will take....
Ellis or Iggy over BG anyday of the week, get serious…. and Maggette’s deal is probably a better deal for the team than BG’s would be. And that is what I am worried about here. Not about BG or his feelings.
Pax didn’t make Gordon a sixth man, that’s illogical. You think other GM’s give a shit about what Pax says? They value BG as they see fit.
What sign and trade offers?
I do, however, definitely agree with your third bullet. You can’t expect Gordon to be happy about how that all played out.
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also about the fact that
Deng so easily surpassed him to become the franchise player, when in years 1-3, Gordon had better numbers and was NBA ready from the get-go. Deng, by comparison, had a lot of upside and grew into his high level of play.
So despite what we see as a somewhat cordial relationship between Gordon and Deng, Gordon truly believes that he is better than Deng, meaning better than the Bulls’ best player.
If I were Ben, I’d feel jerked around a little bit, also.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Sep 29, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can't find it now
but I seem to remember a post here awhile back that suggested BG wanted to get paid more than Kirk (which I personally believe he should). At the same time nobody in the org thinks he should get as much as Deng (which I also agree with).
Over the next few years Kirk’s salary goes like: $10M, $9.5M, $9M, $8M
If Ben took the 6/59 offer, he would not be making much more than Kirk except on the last year of Kirk’s deal.
I can’t say that I disagree with his stance. To me, he’s head and shoulders better than Kirk…so why take a deal that doesn’t reflect that?
by NormVanBeer on Sep 29, 2008 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
heck, that first year he'd make less than Noc
ultimate insult :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the $22 million guaranteed
Over the life of Gordon’s offer would make up for one season making less than his bench buddy Nocioni.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
The Bulls decided to pay too much for defense when they already have a surplus of defensive minded players. So you get a contract like Hinrich’s sticking out there like a sore thumb in the face of current events. I think the Bulls are happy with what they are paying Kirk though. Even after the Rose draft. Defense has been their mantra and having money put in that area will always seem like safe money. On the other hand it seems like anyone with a touch of offensive skills is deemed “streaky” and “risky” and “one dimensional”. Unsafe and undeserving of confidence. Thus we are well on our way to assembling a bunch of average to good defenders with limited offensive talent while tying our money up all the same in the process.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Sep 29, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a fan
of BG at all but I hope in his stuborness if he signs the QO he does not have a career ending injury this season.
by sue369 on Sep 29, 2008 12:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I wouldn't wish that on anyone...
I do however think that BG keeps himself in tremendous shape (knock on wood).
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on Sep 29, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can someone clear up something?
do contract incentives count toward the tax? If not, why not give him a contract that is dollar-for-dollar below the tax, but is chock-full off incentives, thus giving him what he wants (in a sense)?
For example, could he take the 6/59 deal and then get extras like $500K for playing 50+ games? Or $1M for playing all 82 games? Or $1M for making the playoffs?
I haven’t seen too many NBA contracts that are strong on incentives, it seems to be more of an NFL thing, but I wasn’t sure if it was even possible.
by NormVanBeer on Sep 29, 2008 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The more this day goes on, the more I think how bad this is for the Bulls
if Gordon has a breakout season, the likely scenario is him immediately bailing (the unrestricted FAs go first) to another team, not even bothering with the Bulls offer (after they have 6 meetings and 3 plane trips to figure it out, of course).
So now I’m supposed to hope he doesn’t play well? ugh.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There are a few situations when business
really gets in the way of enjoying the game:
1) tanking for draft picks 2) watching a player do well and feeling bad because it means he’ll leave as a free agent 3) trading for bad players with favorable contracts or vice-versa.
However: if the Bulls clear cap space with a trade, and he develops a rapport with Rose and VDN, I can easily see him staying.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Sep 29, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
calm down...
There is a looong season to go, and nobody else wanted BG for the amount we offered him.
Remember, you are a fan of the BULLS. You will be a fan of the BULLS in 20 yrs when BG is long gone. Lets stop worrying so much about BG, and remember who we are rooting for here.
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm rooting for the Bulls to win
they do a better job of that by having Ben Gordon. Sheesh.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe not
It’s an opinion. Thus why I want them to lock Gordon up. It’s not like I will stop watching the Bulls, but I’ll be pissed off at them if Gordon walks after the season (not under every scenario, but most). Can you handle that oh-so complex fandom perspective?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
yes, but i cannot handle your riding of him oh-so-hard, like he is the answer to the bulls sg woes for years to come.
I guess 1 dimensional players are not my cup of tea, especially when they turn down the best offer afforded to them.
To each his own, I suppose.
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But this move is absolutely dumb.
On the part of the Bulls. How can this possibly end well for them? They say thank you and wave at Ben Gordon as he rides off into the sunset? Only to land on another team, and then scorch the Bulls two to four times a season, while living up to his potential as one of the better, offensive minded players in the league? He’s no lock to crack top five SG’s, but didn’t that nba.com list of SG’s place him at #16 in the league for SG’s? He’s young and a hard worker; he could rise a few spots yet.
Add to that the fact that the Bulls have defense, but need offense.
And of the offense they have, they have people who can make 2-pointers well, but cannot make 3-pointers well.
And that they have the perfect PG to set up 3-point shooters (or at least when he learns to use a screen he will be the perfect PG to set up 3-point shooters).
And that BG is the ultimate gym rat/hard worker/good attitude guy, and a guy who willngly takes (and often makes) the last shot. And he has good chemistry with the team.
He should be rewarded. All of these things indicate that the Bulls are making a huge mistake. It seems as though they’re now paying for past excesses of signing Noc, Ben Wallace and to some extent, Kirk.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Sep 29, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i want him to be paid;
but like a 6th man.
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's say Gordon truly breaks out next year
Why wouldn’t he re-sign with the Bulls if they are offering the most money? The money is clearly the most important thing to him or he would have signed already.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How come
I hear the same guys saying “he’s nuts to pass up this money, it’s the best he’ll get!” and then say “the money is clearly the most important thing?”
If it were purely a money issue, he’d have re-signed because in terms of expected value that’s almost certainly his best bet.
The fact he didn’t suggests it’s not all about money to him, and hence the offer of more money next year isn’t going to be determinative.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
saw this arguement coming...
and I see its merit…
But I fail to see anyone point out a better situation for him than the bulls.
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also....
I think its apparent BG thinks he will get more money next year in an open market scenario.
by ridindirty on Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well sure
I don’t know if it’s apparent that’s what he thinks, I’d just say they’re not mutually exclusive. He could think he’ll get more money or a better situation and about the same money, or both a better situation and better money.
I think Miami is angling for him, and if I were him I’d prefer starting next to Wade and Beasley than being the Bulls “sixth man forever”, even if it were for the same or slightly less money. Heck, those Wade quotes on Gordon the other day were basically a tamper avoiding “hey, your money will be waiting for you in Miami” message.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if Gordon has an excellent year next year
the bulls offer him their max, and the heat offer him their max. He’s going to take the Heat’s max to prove a point? Or because he prefers Miami?
And BTW, the Heat want Boozer. The Jazz owner has admitted as much to his own fans that Boozer is leaving for Miami next year.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Heat aside
I have a feeling if anyone makes an offer to Gordon, he won’t wait around to see what the Bulls do, especially with first-hand knowledge of ‘the process’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
he just is going to run to sign and not see if the Bulls want to top it? I can see him telling them they can’t just match. But I find it hard to believe he’d take less money from another team just to leave the Bulls.
Gordon is upset with management, not his teammates, the coach, the city, and his bank account. He’d be passing on all those things just to “teach Reinsdorf a lesson”?
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
but this is the Bulls we’re talking about. They’d learn of the offer, and then spend 15 days discussing what to do. and then he’d have to agree to first have to have a sit-down with Reinsdorf. Why bother?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus you don't think he's upset with his teammates?
Not them individually, but that there’s several at his position?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes
Really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, needs to go. I think the biggest storyline to watch now is the Hughes/BG thing. It’s a shame that it’s even a question. Buy his ass out so it’s not detrimental to the team. A 4-guard rotation of Rose/BG/Kirk/Thabo would be ideal IMO. Hughes is the annoying monkywrench and that situation needs to be resolved asap. If he goes, I wouldn’t worry too much about the backcourt thing at all.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Sep 29, 2008 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His trade value is too high to buy out.
Not this year, but next year that expiring contract could have tremendous value. Plus it give the Bulls extra leverage in their Gordon negotiations.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I don't think he really is.
Keep in mind I’m working from the Gordon has a great year scenario. He won’t have to worry about who plays his position if he plays well. The Bulls will pay him and play him. He has deficiencies. If he cuts down on them, he has nothing to worry about.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they always say its not about the money
but at the end of the day, its about the money. All reports were that Gordon and the Bulls were far apart on a deal. It seems if the Bulls would have met his demands, he would have signed. So I don’t know where you get your info. Are you suggesting his contract demands are really a way to force his way out of Chicago? If so, why does he spend so much time at the Berto Center. He seems to like the team and the team seems to like him.
by DangerMouse on Sep 29, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
I’d pay more money to drive a Cadillac than a Hyundai. If I had to settle for the Hyundai, it doesn’t mean I’d suddenly drive it around recklessly.
Or more directly, you’d have to pay me a lot more to teach in a poor inner city school in a crime ridden neighborhood than you’d have to pay me to teach in a cushy suburban school with motivated kids. But if I did end up in the inner city job, I’d still try to do the best job I could do, both out of a sense of obligation, personal pride, and respect for my colleagues and students. And I’m sure the administration of that poor school would like me if I were a good teacher, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to pay me more if, at the end of the day, it’s still a shitty school and it cuts into the principal’s budget for flying out to the American Association of Inner City School Principal’s annual meeting in Hawaii.
If you had the worse job situation, would you sit around and sulk and do a half-assed job? I dunno. I’ve seen plenty of people get screwed and continue to work pretty hard for an employer that screws them. And I’ve seen plenty of people do half-assed work because they felt slighted.
I get the same info you do, but I see lots of people who seem to take speculation as fact. I simply try to look at everything and (understanding that most every side is lying to some degree) put together a picture that makes sense to me. The story as told by the Bulls… doesn’t.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What doesn't make sense?
The Bulls don’t value BG as highly as Deng. They value him ever so slightly more than Kirk. And more than slightly compared to Noc.
But you think this is a lie?
by marionette on Sep 29, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's all they're saying
And I do think they have spread some fud around (like the sort of silly idea that the Heat would agree to a sign and trade deal for a player they hadn’t agreed to a contract with, and that the Bulls would trade away Noah in such a deal and bring back Marcus Banks).
They don’t seem to value him more highly than Kirk Even without throwing in the NPV calculation, (which makes things worse) then Kirk will make more over the five years of his extension than Ben would make in the first five years of his.
And, as discusssed ad naseum, you’ve got the various public statements and inconsistent actions taken by the Bulls, especially as the time to pay the guy got closer.
And then there’s the variety of completely out there goofiness, like the Russian rumor (probably started by some greek blogger who had nothing to do with anyone, but who knows…) and the Bulls pushing the line that mean old Ben Gordon being stubborn and not signing for the league minimum has prevented them even considering trading Nocioni or throwing some loot in Othella Harrington’s direction.
I don’t know if you want to call those lies, or knowing aspersions, or bargaining tactics or PR statements or honest sentiment on the part of the Bulls, but personally I hope they’re lies because anything else would be too stupid for me to take.
At the end of the day, what I see is this sort of stuff pretty consistently gets stupid and overly and maudlinly moralistic when Pax is doing the negotiating (poor Juwan and Othella are held up!… there’s no point in talking… too far apart! … end result… we’re hosed, but this time with no Isaiah Thomas to bail us out).
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yadda, yadda, yadda
the Bulls offered Gordon a 6 year 59 million dollar contract. He would like a contract for 6 years 72 million. That is the source of the disagreement. I have seen no indication from the Bulls or Gordon that this isn’t about anything other than money.
Your entire “teaching in a inner city school” analogy is crap, the Bulls aren’t in a situation where players don’t want to be here. Are the Bulls a model franchise? No. But we aren’t the Kansas City Royals either.
by DangerMouse on Sep 29, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every article written says
he wants between 12-13 million annually and the Bulls are offering 6/59. What else is there to say?
by CJ Bulls on Sep 29, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money vs. 'respect'
There’s a really fine line between the two.
I agree that although in the immediate sense it’s about how much he was offered, in a more abstract sense, it’s about respect. Ben knows that $59 million is fine, but that is beside the point at this stage of negotiations.
Instead of operating under the principle “I’ll go where the most money is”, he now has the prerogative to operate under the principle “I’ll go where the most money is, except I hate dealing with the Bulls, so I’ll pay a premium to not have to deal with them.”
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Sep 29, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there actually any evidence he's taking the QO?
Or is it just that “i’ll be in camp” text? Because if so, maybe he’s just decided to take the long-term deal.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Sep 29, 2008 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Between him agreeing to show up in camp
and Paxson refusing to call talks b/t BG and the Bulls “negotiations” as the two sides were so far apart, I would think it’s a safe assumption he’s taking the QO.
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Ronald Reagan
by snley on Sep 29, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think that's a bad question to ask
even on Bulls.com it says “It APPEARS he will sign a one-year qualifying offer of $6.4 million and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.”
Maybe there are some 11th-hour negotiations taking place right now that we don’t know of. I keep thinking back to a couple of summers ago when it didn’t look like Kirk was going to extend his contract, but then he ended up taking the deal at the very end.
by NormVanBeer on Sep 29, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I was wondering
and Ben is a pretty calm, steady guy: I could see him riding it out until the last minute, giving every indication he’ll sign the QO, then – when it’s obvious they won’t budge – signing the longer deal. BG: not a dude I’d want to play poker with.
Of course, it’s a longshot. But I’m just sayin’…
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Sep 29, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope there are
I think the QO is pretty shitty for all involved. Hell, I don’t see why we couldn’t do a one year deal with a PO for the second year at $7.5M/yr. Put the ball totally in his court, but maintain our trade flexibility.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is why I suggested the short term contract in the first place.
Though, my understanding of the CBA is that BG must sign at least a three year deal, with two years guaranteed. So the ball would effectively be in his court the Summer of ’10…and we all know every single team in the NBA has a plan for that summer.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that '3yrs, 2yrs guaranteed' was indeed a restriction
but I couldn’t find it. You’d have to think if it wasn’t Varajao wouldn’t have taken that 3 year offer from the Bobcats.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn good question!
I took a quick look at the salary FAQ and I don’t see any (legal) pitfalls.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't find either.
My other salary cap guru suggested it was 3 years with 2 guaranteed. I am not reading the CBA to find out.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 29, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of thought it was too two year guaranteed as well
But I also can’t find it.
Maybe we were thinking of question 87, which involves sign and trades and says that a sign and trade must be for at least 3 years, but only the first year must be guaranteed (e.g. Keith Van Horn)?
Question 19 says that when signing a player with Bird rights, the minimum contract length is one year.
by Sports2 on Sep 29, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a good thing at all if he does sign the QO
I hope Ben doesn’t try to force anything this year like the past season in hopes of gunning for a bigger contract next season. Brutal that the Bulls and Gordon had 2 calender years to negotiate a long-term deal and couldn’t get squat.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Sep 29, 2008 3:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Was Ben forcing things last season?
I know he didn’t play that well, but he was actually forcing less.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't see it that way sometimes
He wasn’t aggressive in a selfish contract push kind of way….but it just seemed there were possessions where he had no idea what to do (because the overall offense blew) and still jacked up bad shots or made bad decisions. Maybe that’s a team issue, but it didn’t make him look great either.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Sep 29, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Though I am still glad to have him back for 1 more season...just to have Rose pass to another talented person
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Sep 29, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a brilliant idea!
Paxdorf actually stops playing favorites, and uses the intelligence of a 10 year old to do something sensible.
Gordon was the Bulls leading scorer last year, and they were 26th in offense. Take him away and…
by stupidgenius on Sep 29, 2008 3:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
they'll be 30th in offense?
What’s your point?
by marionette on Sep 29, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy the "sky is falling" mentality
that the Bulls will automatically be last in offense if Gordon were to leave. They were saying the same thing about the Sixers when Iverson left.
by RogersPark Kris on Sep 29, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's good to remember that
it’s a team game.
by marionette on Sep 29, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, both situations were completely the same!
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Sep 30, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick question...
If Ben Wallace was still on the team, do you think Gordon would want 15+ mill a year?
PAX, PLEASE trade him…
by Agusnico on Sep 29, 2008 6:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
they already traded Wallace!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 29, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon will re-sign as a URFA
Once he realizes that no one in the NBA will pay him what the Bulls were offering him. But, that will only happen if he isn’t too proud and signs with another team in spite, or we trade for D-Wade and don’t want him.
Homecoming
by illwill on Sep 29, 2008 8:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the latest from poopsworld
says he still is deciding whether to take the QLA or the long term deal
http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20080929#STORY_12127
May be fulse but at least its something possitive to hold onto for the next 24 hours :)
by rquinsee on Sep 29, 2008 11:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wake up
If BG were tradeable, he would have been traded by now! With all the stupid teams in the league, don’t you think someone would have taken a flyer on him if they thought he was worth what he wanted? Apparently, no one in the NBA thinks that.
Yes he has value, …….as a 6th man, ……if he took a 6th man’s salary. Yes he can score, but he plays no D and he has repeatedly showed that he can’t dribble or pass. You can’t possibly play him next to Rose for anything but short stretches because of size. It would be the smallest NBA backcourt around and they would get repeatedly posted up, again, and again, and again.
Wake Up! We are doomed! I don’t see any way out of this mess.
From a depressed lifelong Bulls fan.
by kmatus on Sep 30, 2008 6:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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