Trade that let's us sign Gordon
by stupidgenius on Sep 26, 2008 6:29 PM CDT
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PrintNow, I know my last post was so monumentally stupid that it was deleted, but this one is good.
How about we trade Kirk Hinrich for Al Harrington, and then trade Al Harrington for Denver's trade exception.
Chicago:
We get a lot of cap space for Gordon, and by getting rid of Kirk Hinrich at the guards, we don't have a logjam anymore(Larry Hughes can back up Derrick Rose).
Denver:
They haven't done anything with the trade exception, so I don't think they are going to do anything with it, and they get someone to step in for the injury-prone Kenyon Martin and Nene.
Golden State:
They get someone to step in for Monta Ellis while he's injured, and after he comes back, they get a legitimate guard with a friendly contract.
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The problem here
is Denver is rebuilding. They wouldn’t want to take on more money (Harrington) without making the Bulls take a contract back (K Mart or Nene).
Kirk for nothing??
So instead of losing BG for nothing, we lose Kirk for nothing? That’s hardly beneficial. The idea is to get assets back.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Sep 26, 2008 7:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
and Hughes
threw a tizzy when they tried to get him to play backup pg (or pg at all) last spring. He will not be happy with backing up Rose in any kind of trade scenario that suggests it.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I was under the impression that
Hughes balked at not starting more than playing the 1 (?)
In Cleveland, for example, 90% of the ball handling seemed to have been done by LeBron, and there, I thought the problem was that he didn’t fit next to another slasher/ball handler. They tried to turn him into a jumpshooter.
But on the Bulls, his main problems seem to be entitlement and just not performing. He strikes me as the kind of player to want to take on more responsibilities, including starting, including playing some PG, even though he doesn’t do any of these things particularly well.
So I guess I’m wondering, battlestar fan cranscape, did Hughes really throw a hissy fit (technical term: tizzy) when they asked him to play PG? Not that it would surprise me…
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
It was during that weird time
when Hinrich was coming off being injured in the spring and they were doing that “he has to work his way back into the lineup” crap that makes no sense no matter how you feel about Hinrich. They were putting Hughes in there to handle PG and he was pissed and did not want to play that role. The game was going downhill and he even said he wanted Hinrich put into the game and walked toward the bench was talking to Boylan about it. Now that I am looking through the archives I can’t find a description of the game. It was vivid in my mind at least and just one of many times when players were exasperated at Boylan. :) He didn’t want to play PG. It could have been because he realized how stupid benching Hinrich was or because he sees himself as a SG.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Yeah, Larry's just nutty.
But him telling Boylan how to place his minutes, I don’t know if that’s tragedy or comedy.
during timeout:
HUGHES: No, no, coach, you don’t play me at point. You play me at shooting guard. You got me?
BOYLAN: Bananas.
HUGHES: Wha?
BOYLAN: I had bananas with my corn flakes this morning, champ. [long pause] Oo-oo aa-aah! [Boylan scratching armpits and beating his chest]
HUGHES: Holy sh*t…
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Sep 28, 2008 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Where did that come from
ITs so random
yet…
so hilarious…im at school in the libarary and i started laughing out loud….and i dont do things like that.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
I remember this well
So your not alone, although i dont think it was cuz of hughes playing point. I think Boylan was keeping hinrich on the bench and hinrich was complaining or something. And then hughes told hinrich to get in the game for him, telling boylan he was tired or some excuse, but boylan wouldnt take it. During the post game i think hinrich responded with something like he didnt know why he was on the bench, and boylan said that whatever problem had happened it was behind them. I dont think anyone found out what really went on. A few weeks later noch threw a towel at boylan i believe.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
he didn't like playing pg
and it was quoted as such when he left cleveland, i thought.
btw, your comment above this one is hilarious.
Who cares about Larry Hughes?
He’s a bad chucker. The less he plays the better.
right
but the op has hughes backing up rose, even though it’s not his position – and we don’t really have anyone to do so, considering none of gordon, sefolosha, or hughes is really qualified.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if the Bulls
continue the PG Sefolosha experiment. I mean, there’s only so many times a guy can lose the ball bringing it up to half court before the idea sinks in that maybe he’s just not a PG.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
Ben handled some PG duties last year and the year before that.
As long as its part time, I don’t think that it would be that bad. Its better to have back-up PG by commitee then starting PG by commitee like so many other teams have. I actually like this idea, but Denver let Camby go because they are trying to cut salary. But Harrington does fit what they are trying to do, which is run the ball and score as many points as possible. Also because Harrington is a slasher/shooter type, he would fit well with Melo since a majority of Melo’s points come from the low post. But marionette is correct, they are in rebuild mold right now. They are going to let AI(or trade for prospects/picks) go after the season, they probably won’t use the TE so they can get to and stay under the cap. Then they will hoard picks and thry to score in Free Agency and build around Melo again if he doesn’t bolt in 2010.
"Rest satisified with doing well and leave others to talk of you as they please"
Bg pg
For the short time it would work, cuz it would allow ben gordon to dominate the ball, throw in a bunch of bigs with gordon (thabo at the 2) and you have a bunch of options for gordon. Gordon is actually a decent passer, or at least flashy…however i think he has more of the habit of looking for his own shot, which is fine when playing the 2, but it hinders the offense when your playing the 1. I think thats also why he gets trapped so easily, cuz he doesnt like to reset his offense, he sort of gets caught up looking for his shots and teams exploit that.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
Why do we need a trade to sign Gordon? We are going to sign Gordon.
He will sign for the QO or 5/59. The 5/59 appears to be over market value, indicating we are overpaying him at 5/59. Why do we have to increase an offer that no one in the world seems willing to match?
by chgobr on Sep 27, 2008 7:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Oh, yeah
if you really want to keep Kirk, then Ben Gordon can sign a 6/60 deal and be traded instead.
Sorry - my typo! 6/59 - a figure no one in the world beside the Bulls wants to pay.
Why up the offer when there is no competing offer and it appears we are overpaying him with the present offer?
Except the Heat and the Knicks
who both made sign and trade offers from what I can gather.
With more info coming out in the last couple days, I think there’s some clarity now.
1. You have at least two teams that have shown willingness to pay Gordon besides the Bulls.
2. Gordon and the Bulls are significantly far apart on money. Gordon wants, basically, the same money Deng got. That’s $9.4M this year. The Bull have offered about $7.75 this year. Tracked out to a six year deal, Deng’s averages about $12M per year and Gordon’s just under $10M/yr.
3. I think it’s also about more than money. Gordon feels jerked around by the Bulls for a variety of reasons (like playing less mpg than a bunch of guys he’s better than over the last two months of last year, the obvious crowded backcourt, and Paxson’s public statements putting him the sixth-man role basically forever due to his size).
, but it also appears to be about more than money.
even if s&t offers were discussed
doesn’t mean they were for what gordon is asking for. one of the reports about the miami offer was that it wasn’t up to his salary demands, either, and that even if the bulls agreed, he still has to as well.
KC also made it seem like that was the case, though
As a restricted free agent, Gordon’s options always were limited. General manager John Paxson listened to exploratory talks from a few teams, including a lowball offer from Miami, but no team wanted to meet Gordon’s demand for roughly $12 million per year.
Is the deadline for Gordon to sign the Qualifying Offer Wednesday?
Here is how Paxson states it in today’s The Sun Times
Bulls general manager John Paxson ’’anticipates’’ Gordon will be in camp on time.
‘’There is some time out there for us, but the reality is we’ve just been so far apart for so long,‘’ Paxson said. ’’We believe we’re closer to what the market is in the league. But anything can happen when there is a deadline and all that. The qualifying offer stands until Wednesday.’’
If this is true what happens if Gordon does not sign by Wednesday?
i also read they are planning to rescind it on wednesday
oct 1st they are allowed to withdraw the QO for the year while still keeping his rights.
i think it means he can't sign the QO
but if you recall pavlovic and varejao, those were negotiated after camp began…. i’d assume that if he doesn’t sign the QO by wed he either sits out, signs what the bulls have offered him, or hopes he can negotiate something better. not sure, someone else would have to correct me if i’m wrong, but that’s what it sounds like.
found a little tidbit here:
That basically leaves Gordon with three choices: One is to accept the money the Bulls are willing to pay. Gordon could take the $6.4 million qualifying offer, spend this season with the Bulls and become an unrestricted free agent next summer. Or he could stay away from training camp and keep negotiating.
which i think corroborates with that notion. i think he just has till wed to decide whether he wants to sign the QO, or else the bulls hold his rights again next summer.
by Jaina on Sep 28, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fascinating -thanks!
Let me follow though on what I think you are implying. If Gordon doesn’t sign the QO by Wednesday he is really betting that he can work out a long-term deal with the Bulls. That would be very interesting since they have gone two years without being able to do that. This is risky business for Gordon. He takes the QO and risks injury or a terrible season costing him a lifetime’s chance to make an incredible amount of money. He doesn’t take the QO and is betting he can make a deal with the Bulls that he hasn’t been able to do for two years. Thank you!
If Gordon doesn't sign by Wednesday
he doesn’t attend training camp.
Here's another option
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3562456366&teams=774&te=1981:7-125&cash=
It’s Hinrich, Hughes, and Nocioni for AI and the TE.
After it we would look like this:
PG: Iverson Rose
SG: Gordon Sefolosha
SF: Deng Nichols
PF: Thomas Gooden
C: Noah and Elton Brown?
Two concerns:
First, that might be the smallest backcourt in the past decade (excluding games where Earl Boykins started.) Sure they could score, but they couldn’t stop a backcourt like the pistons who would post them up all day long.
Second, do we want Rose learning under Iverson who has become more and more of a shoot first point guard over the past couple of years?
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
Good suggestion, but a problem now since
Kirk is starting to reappear on most all of the advertisements coming from the Bulls camp. He appears to be the type of player that can reasonate with the United Center fan base more than most any other player, Noc being second. Therefore in Paxsdorf’s eyes he’s more valuable than a Denver’s trade exception.
This probably is a gamble that the Paxsdorf’s seem ready to take? If Kirk rebounds and steps up to hit some game winning clutch shots, then Paxsdorf wins!
Yet, if the Kirk mope increases and he continues his passive decent from last year, then the Paxsdorf’s will reinforce their bad untimely decisions with personnel acquisition and disposal.
United Center - I called 911 during the summer of 2006, the situation hasn't improved, now inactivity during the summer of 2008 will require the national guard.
We play Small Ball!
And even Paxdorf wouldn’t be stupid enough to pass on a chance to get rid of Larry Hughes, if it was a fair, or just slightly lopsided trade.
Let's Thin the Herd!
The team has too many guards, already; therefore, dump Gordon if he’s unhappy (Hinrich, too, because we still need a frontcourt). There’re a lot of teams that would love to have him—especially on a championship roster, which he will NEVER be a part of, as long as he remains a Bull. Wherever he goes, I wish him the best of luck, and hopefully, it’s somewhere beyond the reach of Reinsdorf and his squeeze toy, Paxson.
You know if we got rid of Larry Hughes
and got just an overpaid backup center(Raef Lafrentz) we would be fine. No logjam, no frontcourt depth issues(Aaron Gray is our backup center?), Since there aren’t any free agents that we should go after next year, we stockpile any cap space that goes(Lafrentz, Gooden, Simmons, Nichols, Gray, and any other roster fillers), and get Chris Bosh. This requires some development from Thabo if Gordon(one of my favorite players who I will be sorry to see leave) doesn’t come back next year since he took the QO.We’ll look like this:
D Rose Hinrich
Thabo ?
Deng Noc
TT ?
Bosh Noah
Kind of off topic...
But if Gray is our back up center and for some reason Gooden gets hurt next year… Ouch.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on Sep 30, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
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