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CSKA Moscow makes offer to Gordon

[From the FanShots. Interesting, but I agree that it doesn't sound like a serious enough offer. The only reason for Ben to take this would be to screw over the Bulls...which, though he screws himself too, isn't the least worthwhile goal. -ed.]

BG to reunite with Veektor?

Greek sources indicate that CSKA Moscow has made an offer to Gordon. Doesn't sound like it's enough to draw him across the pond yet.

Link 10 months ago Brocksamson_tiny snley Comment 70 comments 0 recs |

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uh, why?

I’m willing to put up with another month of ‘uncertainty’ if it spares me 6 months of ‘suck’.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 2, 2008 10:27 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We disagree on his value to the team.

I am not convinced this just another month of uncertainty. He could refuse to sign the Q.O. well into the regular season…the Bulls have not been able to make moves this offseason because of this situation. Ben Gordon could continue to hold the Bulls hostage with contract demands…

by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 2, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the Bulls can do whatever they want

the inability to make moves, or even up their offer, is self-imposed.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 2, 2008 10:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are correct that they can...

…however, the management has made it clear that it will not exceed the luxury tax threshold for a non contending team. Thus, they are unable to use their MLE, traded player exception or make trades in which they take back more salary then they send out. Additionally, its nearly impossible to address team needs when an important piece of their roster is effectively holding out…

by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 2, 2008 11:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

According to CBS Sportsline.....

there were 22 shooting guards who had better years last year.

Surely we can find a way to spend $10 million per year to get some points!

by hhirb on Sep 3, 2008 7:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By what qualification are they ranked?

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Sep 3, 2008 8:34 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just look at CBS Sportsline, NBA, Rankings

I didn’t make this up!

We have a bunch of really mediocre players and that’s why we don’t win!!!

by hhirb on Sep 3, 2008 8:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a freaking fantasy sports ranking

I thought you were talking about some actual evaluation system. Mike Dunleavy Jr. is number 9, how seriously do you take this. For those curious enough, here’s the link…

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/SG

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Sep 3, 2008 9:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for the link

It does give a sense of where Gordon fits based on multiple stats

by chgobr on Sep 3, 2008 9:23 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My feelings exactly

It may not be a perfect ranking system, but it reflects somwhat how I feel Ben ranks among sg’s. There’s a lot of really good wings in the league. He’s definitely not in the elite, not even upper half, imo. Locking in to Ben’s wishful thinking would preclude any hope of maneuvering for the caliber of player needed at that position. Maybe JR doesn’t think BG’s worth $70m, but he might not have a problem paying $100+ for the right player. If he signs BG, there’s no chance of that happening.
This year has to be the year last year would have been if numbnuts wasn’t coach. Play the kids, determine what they have, and make plans for building around Rose accordingly. Rose, Thabo, Noah and TT are the MVPs if they aspire to being more than a .500, one and done give or take a couple of wins team. If any of them are not capable of playing very good NBA ball, expose it and move one.

by California Al on Sep 3, 2008 10:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you truly believe Dunleavy is better than Kevin Martin?

Ricky Davis is better than Rip Hamilton? This is a very flawed system that puts no context to the numbers. Not to mention, there’s quite a few SF’s listed amongst the SG’s (Pierce, McGrady, Peja). I’m not saying BG’s amongst the best SG’s in the NBA. There’s plenty of evidence to work with to try to rank him. Just don’t rely on something so clearly flawed and overly simplistic.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Sep 3, 2008 11:29 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope

What I said was that that system is flawed, but if REFLECTS how I think Ben ranks. I don’t think Dunleavy belongs that high, but certainly Wade not that low. I like Ben; good player, good human. I just don’t believe the Bulls as presently constructed are going anywhere UNLESS:
Some of our youth pan out; or,
We go out and get another really good player;
Rose deserves the #1 pick; and,
VDN and staff can restore a sense of team.

I think there was something very ominous about Noah’s complaint about a losing atmosphere. I thought Wallace was the lead culprit. We’ll see.

by California Al on Sep 3, 2008 11:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There You Go!

We all fell in love with our drafted players but what has it gotten us?

by hhirb on Sep 3, 2008 12:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The thing is, for the immediate future, he's not screwing himself so much

Sounds like he makes more than he would on the QO, roughly what he would in the first year of the Bulls offer. So if he actually believes there are teams out there willing to pay him next year, this gives him a chance to get paid this year and very publicly tell the Bulls to shove it. And what if CSKA Moscow increases its offer, thus showing him the “respect” that everyone keeps talking about?

Of course, that’s just me speculating what he’s thinking about given what little we know about the negotiations this summer. And I personally think he would be totally screwing himself over – same situation next summer, at least playing on the QO gets him to UFA.

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 10:35 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I thought he maintains RFA status if he doesn't sign a new contract or the QO

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Sep 2, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is correct.

As long as the Bulls continue to extend the Qualifying Offer, they will hold his rights in perpetuity. This will also create a cap hold for the Bulls of about $13.8 million…

by Dionysus2.0 on Sep 2, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

Does anyone think he’s really considering this? He’d have to live in Russia… Who wants to do that when you can live somewhere else and make almost the same amount of money?

Moscow is also one of the most expensive cities in the world so his salary won’t go as far as in U.S.

Good trip, Benny! Write and blog us how you’re doing!

by BAB-Bass on Sep 2, 2008 11:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't forget that European teams typically pay for housing on top of the salary

And if BG has equated salary with respect and CSKA Moscow comes up a bit, it honestly wouldn’t surprise me.

Also, just generically, I’d totally jump at the chance to live in Moscow (or a lot of other places, for that matter) for a year, just for the experiences of living in a different culture.

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 12:01 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well

he’s been a star athlete for most of his life and travels quite a bit. I just don’t see that as a plus for him, but who knows.

by gman2849 on Sep 2, 2008 6:57 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he's treated anything like the best women's players

who can make 10 times their WNBA salaries in Russia then he’ll be just fine. Very nice housing is provided along with a driver on top of their contracts. Russian owners aren’t trying to make money right now. They’re demonstrating their wealth and influence, which often leads to other lavish gifts on top of their contracts for their star imports.

by Scotter on Sep 2, 2008 7:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like a manslave!

BG is gone for sure. Book it!

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Sep 2, 2008 8:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Meaning if he plays in Europe, it's the same exact scenario next summer?

That’s my understanding – I’m just saying that if he honestly believes there are other teams willing to sign him to an offer, then he may look at next summer as being able to get the big offer sheet the Bulls have to match or let him go, or as getting an S&T done. Either of those are looking pretty unlikely for this summer right now, unless there’s something that has managed to keep completely quiet. That’s why I said, imo, QO is better than Europe because at least it gets him to UFA status. But if BG honestly believes there are teams willing to meet his demands next summer, maybe he figures better to get paid and without playing for the Bulls.

Hell, maybe he believes he is so important to the team that after a season without him they’ll come running back with that $70M contract for him.

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 11:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gordon has mentioned

the overabundance of guards on the team. If he takes the QO he probably has legit fears his playing time will be severely limited. Perhaps being a starter on the Russian team would be better for him. I’m not really sure what fate falls to a player of Gordon’s caliber who takes the QO on a team like the Bulls. Would he get playing time assuming he isn’t going to poison the team (and I don’t think Gordon would)? Would not getting playing time screw up his chances for the next year?

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Sep 2, 2008 12:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he defintely fears a loss in PT

he mentioned that his time was shrunk after Hughes was acquired (sure glad Boylan was ‘showcasing’ him, huh?).

He knows (much to Dave Berri’s chagrin) that PPG gets paid. More minutes means more points and more money.

What I’m not sure of is how the Bulls could spin limiting his minutes if they’re actually interested in winning (though that’s up to debate). ‘Developing Thabo’ is pretty flimsy.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think developing Thabo is nearly as lame as the idea that Larry Hughes needs minutes.

But I do think PT is what makes the QO a miserable option from the Bulls’ end – if BG signs they can seriously look to move a guard, and if BG goes elsewhere they have moved a guard. But BG on the QO? Then I think you have to assume BG is gone at the end of the year, and Larry has got to be gone within 2 at the latest, so do the Bulls really have much choice other than keeping all 5? (But presumably trying to move Larry – with all the issues of getting something more palatable in return)

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It does get pretty complicated when you start considering all the nuances

I was trying to distinguish what I think personally from what Ben might be thinking – I think the QO is bad for both sides, but if I’m Ben and I firmly believe there are other teams that will pay me more I’d rather negotiate as an UFA than as a RFA. That only works is you’re firmly convinced that teams out there want you, though, and I personally am not convinced he’s ever going to get a better offer than roughly $10M/year.

As far as PT, is it better to play more minutes in Europe than to play fewer in the NBA, in the sense of getting a better offer next year? Unfortunately for Ben, I don’t think either is a good option – at least on the QO his agent can argue that what he did was against NBA level talent and try to talk in per minute terms. Would it be better to be completely out of sight but have great stats? I honestly don’t know. But PT is certainly another aspect of all this that might make the offer more intriguing to BG than it seems like it should be.

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 1:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think there's a definitive answer

I tend to think playing in Europe would be preferable to Ben. Obviously still being an RFA is a big issue, but there are some advantages.

Players often seem to get diminished roles on their team (beyond their merit as players) on the QO. Guys who consistently saw big minutes like Pietrus or Radmanovic saw their minutes slashed when their teams decided they ought to cut their losses and develop replacements.

If I were Ben, looking at the Bulls general outlook for this season, at Paxson’s prior statements about me, the various way the team has handled obviously departing players in the past (running the gamut from guys who helped a fair amount like Duhon to guys who were pretty iffy like Marcus Fizer) and about the Bulls sunk costs at SG, I’d consider it highly likely that the Bulls would get a few months into the season and then bench me through little fault of my own.

And for Gordon, that’d be pretty awful.

On the other hand, if he goes to Europe:
1. He gets paid a couple million more.
2. He gets an “offer on the table” to “set the market” beyond what the Bulls are offering.
3. There’s not the stigma of “he took the QO and could leave for nothing” hanging over the team. By letting the team retain some long-term leverage, the team may retain some interest in bringing him back…
4. … especially if, as might be expected, the Bulls more or less struggle without him.
5. Finally, the Bulls will be able to offer him a bigger deal next year without hitting the tax threshold. They can offer just under $8M this year and that’s what they’ve offered. Next year they’ll able to offer enough in the first year to make a higher offer than what he was offered last summer. Which, I think, is probably a sticking point.

by Sports2 on Sep 2, 2008 1:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He also runs the risk the Bulls do OK without him

And I’m not intending that as a Bulls + BG versus Bulls – BG argument. The team sucked last year with him on it, so how do you measure “struggle without him?” While the team might indeed be better with than without him, will they do so poorly next year that the Bulls suddenly see him as more valuable? As I mentioned above, he may be thinking that way – which I agree makes a European offer more intriguing.

But I think it’s as likely that the Bulls improve on last season, even without BG (which isn’t saying much considering how bad last season was) – so there’s another risk with taking the offer. The Bulls have made nearly identical offers two years in a row, so what’s to say they’ll suddenly offer more next year? Your scenario suggests that the luxury tax is actually the sticking point and they’d offer more if they could. I still tend to think the tax is just a nice bright line they can point to, but that the org has no desire to offer him more money.

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 2:15 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed, that's a risk

Well, they’re actually offering him less, in average salary, than they offered him last year (the $5/50M they offered last year would scale up to 6/$62M). Granted that’s not a lot, but as I’ve said before, I think the overwhelming majority of people wouldn’t react very well in that situation.

If the Bulls simply aren’t willing to pay him more (regardless of the tax), but are willing to pay him about the same, then he does better by going to Europe. He makes $8.9M this year, and then signs for 6/$59M next year, and comes out a little ahead.

If the Bulls do well and decide he’s not worth the trouble, then what?
Well, I’d guess other teams would be more inclined to offer a deal to Ben since it appears the Bulls don’t want him as much. If they make a low-ball offer next summer, then it’ll be a credible offer a team can make a slightly higher offer and the Bulls won’t match. Or, maybe nobody likes him that much and he doesn’t get much of an offer.

Then he either comes back for less or sees what he can get in Europe for another year. I think if I were Gordon, my key sticking point when negotiating a deal abroad wouldn’t be the amount but the length of contract. A two or three year deal with opt outs like Childress got would give him some security and also increase the probability the Bulls simply renounce his rights and make him a UFA at some point (the wouldn’t go into Summer 2010 with his $12M cap hold, I don’t think).

That is, I’d angle to play two years with a year 3 option in Europe. I’d expect that if I didn’t get a good offer from the Bulls next year that they would be compelled to release me because I’d screw up their cap position in the third year. That’d make me a UFA in 2010 when every team under the sun is going to be under the cap and most of them will be disappointed they missed out on one of the really big names.

by Sports2 on Sep 2, 2008 2:41 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Multiple year deal makes more sense.

I guess bottom line I see this as a much closer call (this offer vs. dealing with Bulls) than anything that has come up in connection with BG so far, and I wouldn’t be all that surprised if he decided to take it.

I honestly don’t think that, compared to taking the $59/6 offer it’s a better deal, but I can see how Ben might look at it as a better deal if he really believes the Bulls offer is below his value. There’s a nice example of the Thomas Theorem!

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And then there is the question

of if Gordon even wants to play with the Bulls at this point. Perhaps his high price is what he’d want to be paid for his continued situation with the Bulls, but he’d be willing to be paid less to play as a starter on another team. Didn’t he express interest during that week or so we supposedly had D’Antoni? Perhaps playing as a sixth man on a team that is no longer contending (and by passing up on D’Antoni isn’t taking that slower route) isn’t as appealing as a short stint in Russia and ended up on another NBA team as a starter for a midrange price.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Sep 2, 2008 2:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

*

*IS taking that slower route…

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Sep 2, 2008 2:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was actually thinking about that the other day, too

OT – I really wish basketball coincided with breaks from school – here I have all the time in the world and nothing to do, then basketball kicks in right at midterms!

But back to BG – I was pondering the idea that his whole negotiating stance has to do with not wanting to be a Bull at all. Just maybe he’s making ridiculous demands figuring that this leads to the Bulls agreeing to move on, then he happily agrees to a similar contract to play elsewhere. At worst the Bulls agree to his demands and he’s slightly richer, at best he gets to pick and choose his team. Of course the issue there is who can actually afford to sign him…

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Sep 2, 2008 3:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bulls better get serious.

I KNOW (aka believe strongly) the Bulls will do what it takes to sign Ben Gordon (and possibly sign and trade, as necessary.) That is all.

by chicago-homesick-blues on Sep 2, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love how even the Euro teams with no salary cap

and limitless dollars don’t even want to go over 10mm (US) a year to sign Gordon. But hey, if you ask Ben he’s worth 15 million a year. At least now he’ll get to be the highest paid player on his team.

by CJ Bulls on Sep 2, 2008 12:45 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

::groan::

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 2, 2008 1:08 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, it's pretty funny.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Sep 2, 2008 3:23 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

I enjoy a Debbie Downer every now and then.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Sep 2, 2008 4:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see him taking this deal

“Greek news sources are reporting that Ben Gordon has been offered a $5.5 million contract with CSKA Moscow. That contract is the equivalent to an $8.9 million contract in the NBA”

Why sign when that’s pretty much the same deal he would get here?

Just another negotiation ploy to help move things along.

by RogersPark Kris on Sep 2, 2008 1:04 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he does sign and wants to come back to the NBA in 2009-10 is he again a restricted free agent for the Bulls ?

If so he appears to risk his future signing with Moscow. Even if he has a good season with Moscow people will question the quality of the competition. I don’t think this would increase his NBA market value.

by chgobr on Sep 2, 2008 1:36 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's my understanding

That if/when he returns, he is still a restricted free agent.

by RogersPark Kris on Sep 2, 2008 2:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This rule

Does any one KNOW the details of this rule? I have heard everything from the Bulls hold it until they renounce it as long as they make a QO every year, all the way to they hold it for up to 2 years, etc… Does any one KNOW this in detail???? Please explain

by NamingRightsOnSale on Sep 2, 2008 2:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3499786

“But Atlanta would retain Childress’ rights for two years if he left, provided they make a qualifying offer upon his return.”

Would Gordon be willing to play overseas for 2 years?

by RogersPark Kris on Sep 2, 2008 2:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The rule is as follows:

The Bulls have to make the QO each year. If they make it, then Gordon is a RFA. If they don’t, he becomes a UFA.

However, when the Bulls make the offer, it applies a “cap hold” against the Bulls’ salary cap of something like $14M. That means that if the Bulls were under the cap by $17M, for example, making the QO puts them down to being $3M under.

That’s not much of an issue this summer or next summer, since the Bulls are already well over the cap this year and would be only slightly under it next year. They couldn’t sign anyone with the cap space they’ll lose protecting their right in Gordon anyway.

On the other hand, it might become an issue in two years. At that point, the Bulls would go into the Summer of 2010 with something over $20M in cap space (barring trades). If they renounced Gordon at that point they could sign a max salary free agent. Applying Gordon’s cap hold of $14M would wipe out that possibility.

That’s why, in the post above, I suggested Gordon might look to a longer deal in Europe with opt outs. He wouldn’t even have to play the third year there, just not opt out until the free agency period begins here, and put the Bulls over the barrel.

If they want to sign someone then, they’ll have to withdraw the QO and make him a UFA.

by Sports2 on Sep 2, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is why

the only thing that makes sense for the Bulls, should BG sign overseas, is to renounce their rights to BG-regardless of how one feels about BG.

by hlac on Sep 2, 2008 8:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and the free agents will come pouring in!

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 2, 2008 11:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

though this is a little different

if we bounce back in the next couple years, FAs may actually want to play in chicago. can’t say the bulls were really an attractive destination at that time.

by Jaina on Sep 3, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

they may want to

and then here comes Jerry Reinsdorf setting up a meeting in Arizona….

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 3, 2008 10:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lmao

If I get any satisfaction out of reading the endless debates here over what woulda, shoulda, coulda, it’s seeing that the majority here have come around to understanding that blaming Pax is equivalent to blaming Ronald McDonald for your cold quarter-pounder.
Let’s just hope that there’s a really good rfa or ufa that Jerry likes. Then, consider it done and done.

by California Al on Sep 3, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

up until this summer I've HATED any Reinsdorfian conspiracies

but the coaching search put me over the edge.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 3, 2008 1:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Conspiracy Theory

What if Kobe gets pissed in the playoff next year than opts out? 14 Mill would be a nice starting number. Maybe paxson sees it in the cards; he is the man.

by Jesse07 on Sep 3, 2008 2:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

14mil is a massive paycut

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 3, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Starts at 14 mil

Increase from there. Plus he will be able to play with Deng and the gang without blowing up the team.

Serious question: Will the Bulls have 14 mil in cap in 09 if BG signs and walks and Gooden isn’t resigned?

by Jesse07 on Sep 3, 2008 3:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sooo...

Gordon goes to europe when the euro is goin to suck soon…he doesn’t take the Ext. last year with his buddy Deng…and deng gets the guap.

This guy should not play poker. never.

by Belize on Sep 2, 2008 3:37 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As Bodie once said, this game is rigged

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 2, 2008 4:04 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

awww man

U made me miss the wire

by Belize on Sep 2, 2008 4:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The game is the game.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Sep 2, 2008 5:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You have to copy and paste it

since that last little bit of the link wasn’t grouped with the rest because of the comma probably.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Sep 3, 2008 3:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

here

Dwyer.

I may have more on this tonight.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 3, 2008 3:43 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude hits the nail on the head.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Sep 3, 2008 7:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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Thank You Ben Gordon
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A Brief History of Ben Gordon: the Quotes Version
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To the Bulls' Front Office
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Optimistic view of BG leaving (I Hope)
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An F.U. to the owner

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Trade idea: Kirk for Rudy
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Could this be Dumar's post-signing-Gordon plan?
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Looking back at the 26th pick now...
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Back Up Plan...

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