More Ben Gordon To Miami News
Rumor Press seems to think the deal still has life.
about 1 year ago
Coach Van Lier
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Heh.
The Bulls and Heat have actually agreed on a few trade scenarios, however there is only one thing that is holding up a deal, Ben Gordon. The Heat do not want to pay Gordon what he is asking for and are hoping he will change his stance and accept what many would call a "fair" deal. Until Gordon agrees on a lesser deal the Bulls/Gordon stalemate will continue.
So Ben is still insane? Who’da thunk it?!?!
Seriously though, I don’t like the sounds of this deal at all, especially if we’re dumping Noah. Marion is a good player but he’s older than our core and only blocks Tyrus. Plus, BG going to the Heat makes them better and then it becomes even less likely that Wade doesn’t come here in 2010. Come on Pax, you can do better.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Sep 14, 2008 11:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I see more spin from the Bulls
If it’s not spin, I propose we all chip in to award Ben Gordon a medal for quashing a Gordon-Hughes-Noah for Marion-Banks trade. What a bunch of suck that would be.
by Sports2 on Sep 14, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on that point. Horrible deal.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Sep 14, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Horrible deal - Ben remains insane!
If Gordon would agree to a fair deal the Bulls would resign him.
by chgobr on Sep 14, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You all think that a BG, Hughes, and Noah for Marion and Banks is horrible??????
Each one of you I respect on this website, as you all have always brought some great points and arguments in discussions. I just don’t agree with how you all think that this deal is bad! Here are the Pro’s, which to me slightly out weigh the Cons
1: The Bulls finally acquire an ALL-STAR. When did the Bulls last have a legit All-Star??? (And I don’t mean those that have made the rookie or sophmore teams). Now, I will honestly tell you that I’ve NEVER been a fan of Marion. I think his shooting style is atrocious! I literally almost puke when I see him shoot the ball. But, the man has game somehow.
2. They move 2 guards. This opens more playing time for Derrick Rose and Thabo Sefalosha. If the Bulls are indeed considering giving Hinrich more playing time at the two guard, that would have severely limited Thabo’s minutes. Now Thabo is the second two guard off the bench, and Derrick Rose can be the starting PG right away.
3. They potentially free up a lot of money next free agent period, and possibly the 2010 free agent period. First off, they get rid of the horrible Hughes contract. Then, unless I am mistaken, Marion’s contract ends after this upcoming season; so if they decide not to resign him, that is approx (depending on how you look at it) ~24M that aren’t on the books at the start of 2009 free agency period. I came up with $24M from 14M for Hughes and 10M for Gordon (potentially) in 2009 if the trade doesn’t take place and BG resigns. This gives them money to use to acquire possibly Carlos Boozer or another top FA in 2009, or just hold off and wait for 2010.
THE CONS (imo):
1. They lose a super streaky shooter that can at times light up the floor like almost no other play I’ve seen before. When Ben Gordon gets hot, my gosh it is something to behold.
2. Tyrus Thomas playing time may drop slightly, but I think it will still be 20+ mpg, which is more than enough for a still unproven (though extremely high potential) player.
3. The Center position gets a lot weaker. The starting center would have to be Gooden if the deal goes through. That would only leave Gray as the backup C, correct? We’d have to make another acquisition or something you’d think. But, back to the first point… Gooden as a full time center??? That just doesn’t seem smart to me….. BUT, we did have Ben Wallace as the full time center the past two years, didn’t we. Well… also, it’s not like we are going to run a slow / post-player type offense this upcoming year. All indications are that we will be running an uptempo offense. Yes, Noah I think is more suited for uptempo, but I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’d rather have Gooden at Center than Ben Wallace, which is what we had the past two years, in an uptempo offense, so either way the center position is an upgrade from what we’ve had the past two years.
Here is my starting lineup and also playing time minutes:
Rose ( 30 ) / Hinrich (8) / Banks (8) / Sefalosha (2)
Hinrich (24 ) / Sefalosha (24)
Deng (32) / Nocioni (12) / Thomas (4)
Marion (30) / Nocioni (8) / Thomas (10)
Gooden (26) / Gray (10) / Thomas (10) / Marion (2)
by Mattchoo on Sep 14, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I posted this on the Gordon to Miami Fanpost
But in terms of actual cap space, after the 2008 season, (none of this factors in the addition of draft picks) we would have 8 players under contract. The bird rights to 2 players (Marion and Gooden) and would be 14 million under the tax (only if we renounce our right to use the mid-level exception and biannual exception). Maybe that’s enough to resign an awesome free agent, but that puts our team total to 9 and means we would have to sign a lot of players to minimum deals and/or resign Gooden and Marion to get up to 13 players.
by Jamaicanpi on Sep 14, 2008 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's kind of a big obstacle
You can’t do a sign-and-trade without the “signing” part.
by Big D on Sep 14, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good or Bad
Ben Gordon sucks for continuing to F the Bulls season up. If he plays for the QO you know that’s going to affect the team. It shouldn’t, but look at what happened last year with him and Deng!
www.notqualifiedtocomment.blogspot.com
by Coach Van Lier on Sep 14, 2008 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you get Marion then you might as well trade Tyrus
Instead of Noah. Noah is a center and Marion and Tyrus are PF’s. Unless the Bulls to make this into a three team deal where Marion ends up somewhere else. Let’s pray that is the case.
by J Theory on Sep 15, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Noc out
Marion in.
The deal works, but we’d have to take back another player. Dorrel Wright?
by NBA Observer on Sep 15, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree. Tyrus should still be able to see near 20 mpg,
but he may technically be at the #5 position at times. This may not be that bad depending on the type of offense we try and run. Nonetheless, Tyrus hasn’t “earned” much more playing time than 20mpg as is. He is still developing (how old is TT, 21?) and anything over 15 mpg should be pretty darn good for that. Also, if the Bulls don’t resign Marion then that position will be less crowded in 2009, and if Tyrus shows his game warrants significant playing minutes at the PF position then he’ll have the starting spot for himself then.
by Mattchoo on Sep 15, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait to see them play any team with a half decent center
They’ll get mauled by Chris Kaman, let alone Dwight Howard.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 15, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While there is a low point for offense when substituting player A for player B
There is none for defense. We would automatically lose to the Magic/Spurs/Suns/Rockets/Blazers etc. They wouldn’t even need to bother playing the games. Putting a combo forward at center for significant minutes is not only dangerous for Tyrus (potentially getting hurt/broken down) but it just doesn’t make any sense for a team trying to win.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 16, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noah is a PF
who happens to play C. Just because one is 6’ 10" (or 6’ 11") doesn’t automatically mean that player is a C. I’d be fine having Gooden play C this year if Noah gets shipped.
I’d prefer the Bulls retain Noah but not at all costs.
by messwiththebull on Sep 16, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Noah is actually 7'. Gooden is 6'10.
Gooden can play the Center position in spots. He’s not exactly tiny, but he certainly can’t do it full time. I don’t see how years of precedent gets thrown out the window. How many teams are giving 30mpg to centers 6’10 and under. It almost never happens. And when it does, the teams are either bad (Nick Collison) or the the player is 6’10 275 (Eddy Curry/Kendrick Perkins).
And I don’t see the justification for saying Noah is a PF. He’s only effective offensively playing close to the basket or passing from the high post. Those are traditional center spots. He is athletic enough to defend PFs, but his game just doesn’t have the range you traditionally need.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 16, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
well, you're both right (or wrong)
by NormVanBeer on Sep 16, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heard he was listed at 6'11
since he didn’t want to be labeled a freak. but that he really is a 7 footer.
by Jaina on Sep 16, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The trouble is that his standing reach
is only nine feet; that’s shorter than Tyrus’ and par with (the 6’8) Michael Beasley’s. And especially at the center position, strength+mass are more important that height…and Joakim is just gaunt.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Sep 16, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The standing reach is an error
That was when he had his shoulder troubles last offseason. He couldn’t play in the summer league because of it. From what I understand, he couldn’t lift his arm over his head. That’s why his numbers are freakishly short. This was confirmed by the Draft Express guys some time ago.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 16, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The DX numbers are based on the real measurements
The nba.com is based on whatever the Bulls tell them to put. He is really 7’0. Garnett is really 7’1. For some reason, players don’t like being listed at that magic 7 number. I don’t really get it. It should be considered a positive
by CJ Bulls on Sep 16, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe..
… it has something to do with the fact that if they hit the magic 7 number, they start having people say that, since they’re seven foot instead of 6’10.5, they’re really best suited to play center.
That’d be pretty annoying for a guy who’s described himself as a power forward.
by Sports2 on Sep 16, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that Noah would personally rather play PF and that’s probably why he lies. He’d rather play against shorter players that weigh less. Doesn’t change the fact his offensive game is best suited to the C position. Not to mention the Bulls have no other players that can credibly play center.
The magic 7 number tends to elevate the way people value you as a player which in turn leads to bigger money long term. If I were that tall, I’d probably embrace it more than most of these players seem to. Although it seems to have worked out ok financially for Garnett.
by CJ Bulls on Sep 16, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he'd be right
but in today’s NBA and on today’s Bulls he has to play the 4, a position he has little to no business playing aside from having the athletic ability to do so.
by messwiththebull on Sep 17, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh, not really
he has business as a 4 because he’s a tremendous shotblocker, and should be placed close to the basket. He’s also pretty tall (especially considering standing reach).
I guess I’m just not sure what you’re getting at where these pre-defined positions have all of a sudden shifted from your perspective. No, I guess Tyrus wouldn’t have been a good contemporary for Karl Malone, but so what?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 17, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus is playing the four because he is able to
not because he is best suited to play the four. He’s a four because he can block shots? No, all that means is that defensively he can block shots. He’s also pretty tall? Sure, he’s pretty tall for a 3, but not for a 4. He should be placed close to the basket? I think right now Ty is a better weakside/blindside shot blocker. I think he’s too frail and too foul prone to be a face-to-face shot blocker. He doesn’t block shots the same way an Elton Brand does. I think it’s pretty obvious the guy is a three trying to learn how to play an NBA 4 and I have yet to see any on court action or read any posts that would lead me to believe otherwise.
by messwiththebull on Sep 18, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus is not a 3!#$!#$#@#@$
Have you seen him when he’s facing up from at the 3 point line? He is not a strong enough dribbler and he doesn’t have the 3 point range to shoot from there. He is a 4. Not a 3 and not a 5. He could moonlight at the 5 to get the old’ Vinny-uptempo-mojo offense going, but he just looks awkward at the 3. Play him at the 4 and use that superior leaping ability to grab boards and block.
by RogersPark Kris on Sep 18, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously.
when tyrus shows a skill set even resembling that of a 3, i’ll believe he can play there. but he hasn’t yet.
plus, he’s listed at 6’8 (same as brand actually), but we’ve seen he’s taller than luol, so his height really isn’t an issue. and he’s only 21 so i’m sure he’ll bulk up some.
by Jaina on Sep 18, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh, right
so to be more useful as a weakside shot-blocker he should be closer to the basket ready to help.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 18, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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