Anthony, Stoudamire...both?

by Carlitro on Sep 13, 2008 11:52 AM CDT Comment 23 comments

Among the threads that get posted when there is absolutely no news coming out of the Berto center (unless Noah gets caught with pot and brandy again), trades trades and more trades. Very few of these involve proven all-stars, which I think most can agree, the Bulls need if their ever going to excel in the new Eastern Conference. I got excited when I read TRue Hoops recent post, Teams in Turmoil.

Denver, Phoenix and other teams are predicted to disintegrate this season, perhaps providing Pax with a face saving trade or two.

We have a stable of young talent and tradeable contracts. Hinrich will need some burn in order to uphis market value, which is fine for teh first few months while Rose gets his feet wet. Deng's trade restriction prevents him from being traded before December 15th. Gooden, Thomas, to lesser extent Noce have tradeable contracts. How about some combination of these, say, Thomas, Hinrich and a #1 pick for Amare Stoudamire. Or perhaps Deng and Gooden plus a #1 and/or the rights to Omer Asik (yeah yeah, acl tear, I know) for Anthony. I'd even be willing to take on K-Mart's max deal if the took Hughes off our hands. A team like this would instantly be a threat to top the east:

Rose/Gordon?

Gordon/Sefolosha/Hughes?

Anthony/ Nocioni

Stoudamire/Simmons/K-Mart?

Noah/Gray--Stoudamire splits time between 4 & 5

Of course, the only reason either Phoenix Denver or both do this is to rebuild, dump salary and pick up something in return. Phoenix gets a quality back up to Nash, an athletic forward to bring back that Matrix/STAT factor and Shaq gets more touches. Denver gets an expiring contract in Gooden, a scoring 3 to replace Anthony and both get a trade asset in a #1 pick or Asik. Either of these scenarios (both?) are likely sometime this season...Pax just needs to commit to making a deal...

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if we got staudemire

for that, i would be amazed. It works on espn’s trade machine (minus the draft pick option) http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=198130321727&teams=21214&te=&cash=

I’m not sure if I’d like Melo for Deng

B.J. for three.... KABOOM!

by chibullsfan03 on Sep 13, 2008 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, you gotta bid low...

Go into the negotiation knowing what youre willing to give up and what you want to get…anyway a team trading away an all-star never gets a dollar for dollar return…

I just think the Bulls need a star, any star, to be option #1….

by Carlitro on Sep 13, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I LOVE the idea of getting staudemire, but if we had a way of keeping thomas and still getting staudamire would be even better cause then thomas would learn from staudamire and we would have 2 staudamires in the back court thomas at the 4 and amare at the 5. i dunno if i like luol for melo tho, but maybe

by Dabullsz#1 on Sep 13, 2008 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

My only reservation w/ Stoudamire...

Would be those knees…at least Anthony hasn’t gotten hurt yet. I mention Deng in a trade b/c he’s got a tradeable contract and he’s potentially as good or better(?) than Anthony…Melo on the other hand is a perennial All-Star on a bad team who would give the Bulls the first real go to guy (other than Elton Brand) since the Jordan Era (he’s got a contract w Jordan’s jumpman too.) Stoudamire alone thouigh, with Rose could be something really special. I dunno if he would like the winter though…

by Carlitro on Sep 13, 2008 7:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

So you're talking about Stoudemire?

I was so hoping this was a diary about trading for Mighty Mouse and bringing Greg Anthony out of retirement to tutor Derrick Rose. Although that’s probably less absurd than being able to rade for both Amare and Carmelo and certainly less absurd than wanting to pair Anthony and Stoudemire together in the 1st place. You don’t win games by pairing two terrible defenders together, especially when neither can consistently create opportunities for their teammates.

by Scotter on Sep 13, 2008 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yuk yuk yuk

That’s good, that’s very funny. I know, right, it’s absurd. What am I thinkin’? And no quasi scientific statistical analysis to prove my point…

Maybe Deng and Rose are enough to win. And Larry Hughes.

by Carlitro on Sep 13, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see Stoudamire or 'Melo ever coming here (willingly) either,

because Reinsdorf and now Pax have established reputations for themselves throughout the league. Reinsdorf laid down the edict that All Basketball Prowess Shall Originate from Defense First. And Pax, despite brokering golden parachute retirement packages for J. Williams and Scottie Pippen, has established himself as a blustery tough customer, never more so than when dealing with his own picks in extension talks.

So those just add to the lists of reasons why it’s really doubtful that two no-defense guys would ever come to the Bulls. I mean besides the fact that they represent prized future cornerstones to their respective franchises.

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Sep 13, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It has nothing to do with statistical analysis, although there's certainly

nothing wrong with the intelligent use of statistics. It has to do with understanding basic basketball, understanding what does and doesn’t lead to winning championships. It’s understanding that there’s only one ball on offense and how various players share that ball. And it’s understanding the value of defense. A team where Anthony is one of the central players isn’t going to win in the playoffs. And I know pairing him with Stoudemire seems great on the basis of name recognition, but think about how the ball would move on offense with them together. Think about trying to play defense with both of them on the court together. Think about the nuts and bolts, not just the highlight clips.

And neither is likely coming to Chicago. Anthony because Paxson hopefully knows better. And Stoudemire because he’s the Suns only long term building block. Phoenix is in trouble, but Amare will be the last player from that team going anywhere. The Shaq trade was a commitment by Kerr to building around Amare.

by Scotter on Sep 13, 2008 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops...

I meant quasi experimental statistical analysis: which IMHO is hooey when applied to sports (except baseball, the thinking man’s game)

(heck it’s hooey when applied to the social sciences…except you, econometrics, you can stay.) Nuts on your aunty for saying otherwise…

by Carlitro on Sep 14, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't wait for you to dispute the worth of a GameFlow!

by hscs on Sep 14, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If something can be reduced to statistics it's no longer a thinking man's game.

by Sports2 on Sep 14, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Hahahah...

Exactly. Could not have said it better myself.

by ridindirty on Sep 14, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Touché...

My original point was that statistical analysis applied to sports is hooey…IMHO…
It’ll be interesting to see how this season unfolds. After listening to Bullsbeat podcast, I’m convinced that the only way this happens is if Melo and Stoudamire force their way out…Doug Thonus mentions something like Larry Hughes and Gooden for Shaq. Intriguing b/c he has championship caliber experience, could fill the hole at center for a few years and then in 2010, when he comes off the books, we would have $$$ for the FA class of 2010!!!

by Carlitro on Sep 15, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A Gordon, Melo, Stoudemire lineup would crush offensively

and reek of layup drills on the defensive end… And history has shown that you can’t win a championship without defense.

by shoryuken on Sep 14, 2008 2:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

both players are their franchise's center piece

even if pheonix or nuggets were rebuilding, the are gonna rebuild with those two young guys.us both are superstars for at least the next 6-7 years (void any critical injury).

id propose something like hughes and noch for marion (plus cap filler if needed). miami gets to offer wade more money to keep him signed, plus an energetic 6th man who can guard two positions and hit 3s (and piss off opponents real good) we get a very athletic tweener who can score and defend like an allstar cud.

kirk/rose
matrix/gordon/thabo
deng/matrix/thabo
gooden/thomas/matrix
noah/gray/gooden(?`)

yes id want marion to start as our two guard. he is a good enough ball handler to do so (as good as thabo, better than deng, and in some cases gordon) plus hed over power other two guards and wud give us some inside scoring.

i do see a jam at the 4 eventually, but gooden and simmons cud get us a nice two guard who cud come the bench (moving gordon or thabo to start and marion to start at pf). thomas shudnt get buried, plus he can learn alot from marion. if marion works out well at the two we cud give gooden and change up for a lowpost presence. rose cud be a bit like nash!

thats my trade thought

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....

by piccolomair on Sep 14, 2008 2:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Except Matrix is past his prime...

Luv his game, LUV it…but he’s almost as old as I am, and let me just say, I am past my prime.
If we can get Marion’s expiring contract for Noce and Hughes though, it’s a no-brainer. Gets us under the cap for a shot at DWade/LeBron/Bosh in 2010. Now we’re talkin…

by Carlitro on Sep 14, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey,

does any of those guys play defense? nevermind, we only takes yags what play defense…

by Carlitro on Sep 14, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh god, those guys can score!

We don’t want that sort here!

by Sports2 on Sep 14, 2008 8:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Impossible...

While I disagree that a team of Rose, Amare, Anthony, and Gordon couldn’t win a championship (or at least make it to the finals), I can’t see the logic in the actual trades.

Why would either team move two of the most talented players in the league for near-scrubs and Deng?

by McCabe on Sep 14, 2008 6:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i agree

i see no point in all these team basically just giving up their center franchise players for guys who are supposed to be “franchise” guys. it makes no sense for any of the other teams involved. it all just fantasy, like an nba live trade(where in my season, the spurs traded duncan for mike redd).

It aint easy bein' Piatkowski

by Yibs on Sep 14, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ha

in 2k8 i make trades so often that i end up with 10 draft picks every offseason, which i rightfully trade for a/several draft picks. i love video game trading, if the salaries match, you can work miracles….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....

by piccolomair on Sep 15, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NOPE

Not happening, ous shooting guards would suck. Our Defense would be shaky and we would could get bullied inside.

by NamingRightsOnSale on Sep 14, 2008 11:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I tend to think

In order to get carmelo or amare, you would have to give up Rose. And we know that aint happening.
Rose is too valuable right now

"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."

The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan

by GreatOden'sRaven on Sep 14, 2008 11:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs