Gordon to Miami?

by Agusnico on Sep 13, 2008 8:34 AM CDT

In fact, Miami has been exploring a lot of possibilities, including, three sources told Yahoo! Sports, recent discussions with the Chicago Bulls on several trade scenarios that included Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks for unsigned restricted free agent Ben Gordon, Larry Hughes and possibly Joakim Noah. Yet, those talks died within the past seven to 10 days and sources said there was no indication they would be restarted.

A bit too much, don't you think?

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I don't know about that

but I’m getting frustrated. It seems like every since Sam Smith left there’s no reporting on the Bulls in the Chicago newspapers. It sucks. Hopefully stuff will happen in the next few weeks. Training camp is right around the corner.

Bulls fan till death

by saalikjazz on Sep 13, 2008 9:55 AM CDT reply actions

I'm getting frustrated too

Everyone was coming out of the woodwork the other day to say that if there was a potential deal with Miami, it mean Gordon and Miami must have talked, with the implication that the Heat must have walked away because Gordon wanted too much, I was told.

Well, ok, in that context, this article seems to indicate that Miami was willing to pay something that was agreeable to Gordon. Because gee, why would they be floating sign and trade deals if they hadn’t even agreed on the basic principles of a deal with Gordon?

They get a deal worked with Ben, then start asking Chicago what garbage it wants to take back. Yay.

by Sports2 on Sep 13, 2008 1:49 PM CDT reply actions

That deal seems fair to me.

There are both pros and cons for each party in the deal. I think the future upside is greater for Miami, but it would free up a lot of money for us after this season. It makes us really weak at C this year though. My starting lineup would be Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Marion, Gooden.

by Mattchoo on Sep 13, 2008 5:40 PM CDT reply actions

yeah, this deal is actually fairly interesting

but if noah is included, it definitely gives us problems at the C. gooden would have to play most of his minutes there, and that’s not great.

by Jaina on Sep 13, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions

What are the Pros for the Bulls?

Because I’m not seeing any.

Marcus Banks is awful and has a long-term deal.
Marion is way older than our other players and has developed a malcontent/loser rep. And he turns what’s already a major logjam into a total mess at the forward positions.
Oh yeah, and we give up our center of the future to boot.

by Sports2 on Sep 13, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Sorry, I posted in the fanshot forum... so this is a duplicate technically...

Here are the Pro’s, which to me slightly out weigh the Cons

1: The Bulls finally acquire an ALL-STAR. When did the Bulls last have a legit All-Star??? (And I don’t mean those that have made the rookie or sophmore teams). Now, I will honestly tell you that I’ve NEVER been a fan of Marion. I think his shooting style is atrocious! I literally almost puke when I see him shoot the ball. But, the man has game somehow.

2. They move 2 guards. This opens more playing time for Derrick Rose and Thabo Sefalosha. If the Bulls are indeed considering giving Hinrich more playing time at the two guard, that would have severely limited Thabo’s minutes. Now Thabo is the second two guard off the bench, and Derrick Rose can be the starting PG right away.

3. They potentially free up a lot of money next free agent period, and possibly the 2010 free agent period. First off, they get rid of the horrible Hughes contract. Then, unless I am mistaken, Marion’s contract ends after this upcoming season; so if they decide not to resign him, that is approx (depending on how you look at it) ~24M that aren’t on the books at the start of 2009 free agency period. I came up with $24M from 14M for Hughes and 10M for Gordon (potentially) in 2009 if the trade doesn’t take place and BG resigns. This gives them money to use to acquire possibly Carlos Boozer or another top FA in 2009, or just hold off and wait for 2010.

THE CONS (imo):

1. They lose a super streaky shooter that can at times light up the floor like almost no other play I’ve seen before. When Ben Gordon gets hot, my gosh it is something to behold.

2. Tyrus Thomas playing time may drop slightly, but I think it will still be 20+ mpg, which is more than enough for a still unproven (though extremely high potential) player.

3. The Center position gets a lot weaker. The starting center would have to be Gooden if the deal goes through. That would only leave Gray as the backup C, correct? We’d have to make another acquisition or something you’d think. But, back to the first point… Gooden as a full time center??? That just doesn’t seem smart to me….. BUT, we did have Ben Wallace as the full time center the past two years, didn’t we. Well… also, it’s not like we are going to run a slow / post-player type offense this upcoming year. All indications are that we will be running an uptempo offense. Yes, Noah I think is more suited for uptempo, but I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’d rather have Gooden at Center than Ben Wallace, which is what we had the past two years, in an uptempo offense, so either way the center position is an upgrade from what we’ve had the past two years.

Here is my starting lineup and also playing time minutes:

Rose ( 30 ) / Hinrich (8) / Banks (8) / Sefalosha (2)
Hinrich (24 ) / Sefalosha (24)
Deng (32) / Nocioni (12) / Thomas (4)
Marion (30) / Nocioni (8) / Thomas (10)
Gooden (26) / Gray (10) / Thomas (10) / Marion (2)

Jamaicanpi brings up an interesting point below about the money. I guess my counter would be that couldn’t we theoretically sign a FA first and then resign a FA player that was on our team during the past season (Gooden and/or Marion)? Nonetheless, I still like this finanical flexibility while still having most of the Bulls core they’ve drafted the past 4-5 seasons (will have Deng, Hinrich, Sefalosha, TT, Rose, Nocioni, and Gray; just missing Gordon, Duhon, and Noah).

by Mattchoo on Sep 15, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Heh, so many similar postings

But I’m just not buying this.

Marion’s game took a drop on a bad Heat team and he’s on the wrong side of 30. His attitude is not good, and he’ll want a big role and be just as concerned with his next contract as Gordon, Deng and every other player anyone’s ever had in that situation. I see the potential for him to blow up in a positive way as pretty low. I see the potential for him to blow in the Tim Thomas/Jalen Rose/Ben Wallace way as pretty large. This is not a situation where everyone’s interests align well.

Thabo is, in fact, the only guard off the bench. I’m not a big believer in Thabo. I guess that makes me not a big believer in Marcus Banks either, since I forgot him when I wrote the last sentence. Doesn’t mean I don’t think Thabo can be ok, but I don’t feel too good about that backcourt.

Taking back Banks, I don’t believe they’d have max C Space next year. By 2010 it does, but that gives us a year of true Clipperdom (staying well under the cap and not using it like the Grizzlies this year) which is he sort of thing that got us a well-deserved bad name for not even trying to win in the Krause years. And we can likely get cap space in 2010 through other, better moves even keeping Gordon.

I think, in sum, I’d rather simply let Gordon walk for nothing than give away Noah and take back Banks so we can dump Hughes a year early and have a one year Vegas wedding with Marion.

by Sports2 on Sep 15, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions

But is that money useful?

So assuming a 3.05 million increase in the salary cap next year (which is probably a slight underestimate, but that’s how much it increased this year) we’ll be 14.5 million under the cap without factoring in the MLE, giving us about 9 million to sign a FA. That’s not much. We can renounce our MLE, but even then 14 million is a bit of a pittance, when we’ll only have 8 players under contract.

by Jamaicanpi on Sep 13, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions

bad idea jeans

I don’t understand these deals. Trading BG and Noah for a player who is on the last year of his deal is an admission that the Pax Era was a failure. These are two high first round draft picks who will be exchanged for a guy who will likely be gone at the end of the year. Marion makes stupid money now and I can only imagine what he is going to want in a new deal. If you want to do something stupid with Ben Gordon, just waive him. The net result is the same.

by Stay Chisel on Sep 14, 2008 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs

You'd be hard put to find

a bigger Marion fan than me, and I think this is a terrible trade.

The trouble with the Bulls’ roster is too many role players (maybe I should call them “never will be all-star” players) in the way of the guys with star potential (with apologies for that cliche).

Sorry haters, but Thabo IS the 2, just like TT is the 4. Big minutes for Gooden, Noc, Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes at their expense means the team is just treading water. Not that either is a lock for some future all star game, but more likely to garner some votes, I think.

Noah seems maybe the least likely all-star, a #1 only in a weak draft year (Bargnani). But I was overjoyed Pax picked him, and think he’s got the potential to be “Marion-like” at the C position. Certainly not a guy you give away to a rival after just a year!

The only trade they need to make is one that gets some of these guys out of the way. (IMO, all are decent “talents”, though none would be greatly missed). But they can’t take back a terrible contract like Bank’s to do it! A little patience please!

by marionette on Sep 15, 2008 8:24 PM CDT reply actions

Ben to Warriors for Harrington?

I’m hearing that he might be going to the Warriors. Kind of strange trade idea.

http://hoopsoup.com/2008/09/17/rumor-ben-gordon-for-al-harrington/

by ZackG on Sep 17, 2008 2:24 PM CDT reply actions

Unless this is followed up immediately by trading Nocioni

or Gooden, this doesn’t help us. The season is about Rose and Tyrus growing into productive players – and hopefully young stars. Burying T2 for one more year is ludicrous. Not only that, but Harrington isn’t appreciably better than Gooden.

Strike that: Gooden’s better!

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Sep 17, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions