Grizzlies offer 5/$58 to Josh Smith
Finally! I was going to petition the league for the Griz to be contracted if they didn't realize what type of position they were in to snag a RFA, or at least force a team to match a contract they may not want to.
If the number is accurate, this is likely pushing the limit to what the Hawks would match. Plus, the sticky issue of Smith not really wanting to play for Atlanta or their coach.
Also, I'm with the growing consensus that the 7-day wait on contract matching should be cut down to 48 hours (or something).
over 3 years ago
your friendly BullsBlogger
72 comments
2 recs |
Email
PrintComments
question:
if the Hawks match does Smith have to take their matching offer or can he tell them he’s just going to take the QO anyway and walk next year? That would force the Hawks to deal him to Memphis. It might also let the Hawks get a nice young PG (since the Grizz have one too many) in the process if they can make it a sign and trade.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 10:17 AM CDT reply actions
if josh really wants to go
he’d probably have to talk it out with the hawks if they want to make it a sign and trade. once he’s signed the offer sheet atlanta can just match it if they wish, he couldn’t then just say, no i’ll sign the QO at that point.
There are ways to make it happen.
Essentially, if Smith accepts the Memphis offer, Atlanta has the right to match no matter what Smith wants…they could work out a deal to withdraw the Memphis offer and work out a sign and trade…I think Atlanta should try to work a sign and trade…they already would still have Marvin Williams to fill his role and could get back at least one good young prospect…
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/aug/08/griz-sign-hawks-smith-offer-sheet/
I like this on paper
Conley, Mayo, Gay, and Josh Smith seems like a young nucleus most teams would envy. If this gets done, have to give credit to the Grizz front office for putting an exciting young team on the floor.
Good points on Memphis having the surplus of PGs that may interest ATL as well.
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions
Memphis may prefer to sign/trade
so they can dump some payroll back on the Hawks. They are the Grizzlies, after all.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Hawks can get guys like Crittenton, Warrick
and a pick.
It’s still a disaster for them, but that’s not unfamiliar territory. They’d be way under the cap next year!
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
If this happens, I'll have to revise up my Bulls forecast
since ATL was one of the teams I had finishing ahead of the Bulls. But losses of Childress and Smith would change that entirely.
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I see them being pretty bad regardless
bad coach, and they only had 37 wins last year.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
plus they lost Childress, who is really good
and got absolutely no compensation for him. By B-R’s new and improved Winshares he was responsible for about 7.5 wins this year (most on the team). That loss alone probably drops them down to at best a 30 win team, if they lose Smith on top of that, they are looking at being one of the worst teams in basketball next year.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
...been looking for a place to hang this
ah, well, seeing as you posted the comment about the euro still holding more value than the dollar…I guess linking to to your comment here is as appropriate a place as any.
Oh, Mr. Josh I-really-like-the-strong-euro Childress…you are now almost $2 million poorer due to the euro’s collapse—IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS ALONE!
All aboard for that great overseas money!
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
he's still probably going to end up with more from that contract than what he would
have gotten from the NBA’s broken CBA and the system it provides.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with the broken CBA part...
and that’s really the point I’ve been trying to make from the beginning.
It’s not the strong/weak euro that’ll be making these guys their money. It’s the competition (or anti-competition, depending on how you want to look at it) a non-capped bidder provides.
Once the euroleagues gain legitimacy-which it appears they are beginning to do-the NBA will have a real problem on its hands. The top-talent will natually flow to the highest bidder.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Also, I'm not Josh'll come out ahead.
The euro went from all-time lows to all-time highs in about four years.
Even if it only comes back to the mean, Josh will have an exchange rate loss of upwards of $10 million dollars.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
That's what happens when the bagholders jump aboard
and we didn’t even have to wait for Darius Miles to seek a contract paying in Euros.
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
actually...
if Atlanta doesn’t match, they’re way under the cap THIS year, and are now Ben Gordon’s best friend.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
uh, whoops
they wouldn’t be, never mind.
by my count, $54,006,090 guaranteed already.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually they are closer to $66.5 million
Because they still have the $10+ million cap hold of Childress…
meh, they can easily renounce that
What’s more important: to have the chance to re-sign Josh Childress for the next two years or to have a good player now?
Even if they renounce all of their remaining cap holds
They can only get about $7 million under…that would be a 5 year, $45 million offer to BG. The Bulls would certainly match that.
I know that.
I guess that’s a good point becaus they couldn’t get that “player right now” anyway, so if they can’t do that, why renounce Childress this year, right?
But this is the ATL Hawks management
they’re too busy sitting on their thumbs to do either
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I have to say
for all the people hating on Memphis lack of involvement in the off-season, (I was one of them) this is an awesome business decision by them. 1st of all since all the other teams that would have offered more to Smith have used their cap space, his total contract value has been driven way down.
Plus the fact that they’d be more likely to work out a sign and trade without the restriction of the +or- 25% to get rid of a few salaries they don’t want is smart. Now they have a young core (w/ Gasol coming over too) that can play together for a few of seasons and maybe become a playoff team soon.
I don't see how it's way down
$11.5m per for Josh Smith is still a lot.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
compared to
even 13 mil per he was ‘reportedly’ in discussions about with Philly, etc. adds up to about 7 mil total. You wouldn’t want a contract that’s 7 mil richer?
a playoff team in the West?
not next year, maybe in like 2 or 3 years. But all that depends on who drops off and by how much, etc.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
he said "maybe" a playoff team "soon"
and before that he said “they could play together for a few of seasons” whatever that means.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Chris Wallace is alive
and well.
Nice move by the Grizz. They need to move a PG. I’d move Lowery or Conley.
so the two better ones?
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Sweet
Maybe they will stink & the firesale will start soon.
Nevermind, the only time the Bulls act on anything quickley is to overpay Noce.
Conley
I have never been in love with Conley’s game, but MAYO, GAY, & JSMITH could have the tools to win a championship down the line. A solid 2, 3 & 4 can win a championship with role players. Ask Jordan, Pippen, & Horace. ( i don’t want to hit submit )
that wasn't a solid 2,3,and 4
that was the greatest 2 guard and player ever and a top 50 all time player (and probably the best perimeter defender ever) at the 3, plus Horace Grant who was better than solid.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like your description better, but
2 – OJ is young dynamic player, 3 – Rudy Gay has the tools that Pippen had, 4 – J Smooth is better than Horace was at his age.
My point these players are young with similiar attributes as the Bulls in the early 90s. The Jordan card is a huge difference, especially since Mayo still hasn’t collect an “NBA” paycheck, but… Who knew the Bulls would be as good as they were? Who knows how good this core can be? I like what Memphis is doing because they have players that complement eachother from a proven blueprint.
Plus, the euro leagues are starting to water down the NBA.
An NBA team won’t have to be nearly as good to win a title as it would have even just a few years ago.
The Bulls, especially the Dennis Rodman iteration, had the three best players at what they did…in the world.
I don’t think you’ll ever see that again…nor do I think you’ll ever need to have that again in order to win an NBA title.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Not nearly as good?
C’mon….most of the guys signing in Europe aren’t exactly stars. (Boykins, Brezec, etc)
Let’s not exagerate the situation.
Jordan was paid $33 million.
In an uncapped market that works out (using the CRB index as a proxy) to almost $100 million today.
If some euroteam is willing to pay that kind of money, they will siphon off all the NBA’s top talent…good-bye LaBron, good-bye Kobe, good-bye CP3, Carmelo, DWade, D-Will, Dwight Howard….
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
This makes it sound like the NBA would be at risk of losing 1 or 2 superstars, if any
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
My point above was that with the top (ok, the tip-top) talent
moving to europe, it won’t take a superstar-laden team to win the NBA title—just a real good team ought to be enough.
As funda… said, the CBA is broken…and the NBA-as-we-know-it is at risk.
Even if only the top half-dozen players defect, it will radically change the winning dynamic in the NBA.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
I completely agree that the depth of talent of the NBA is at risk here
I just don’t think it’s going to be from the top, it’ll be seen more in the benches. It just doesn’t appear that there are enough teams with the resources or desire to lure the top of the line talent in the NBA. Since a Euroleague team can only have two non-European players, that will greatly limit the eventual impact.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
That could it.
At this point, we’ve only heard the first few notes of the overture. We don’t yet know how it will play out.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
I love Conley
even though he is a bit small. Had to say it.
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
super quick, great leaper, gets to the rim, multiple high school state champ, #2 ncaa
Sound like anyone else we know?
The difference, as you say, is that not only is our guy taller, but he’s strong and solid.
I also like Conley, but I fear his career will be continually derailed by injuries.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
If Wallace pulls this off and gets Smith
does it make up for him dumping Gasol?
Great Question
I would say yes. He has given the franchise hope (if this goes through). They have started the rebuilding period very quick without the years of Limbo. They could have a direction for this team to go.
eh, maybe
I think Gasol outperforms Smith over the next several years, and the money’s comparable. There’s the big gap in age, though. It’s certainly a nice rebound.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Dumping Pau Gasol
Gave them the cap space to make this offer…and they also got Marc Gasol and Crittenton in that deal and the pick they turned into Darrel Arthur. So, as a package, it would appear they got a lot of youth talent for Gasol.
if those three are any good
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
(though I had forgotten about Arthur)
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 8, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
with marc gasol
this ‘josh smith’ move could be a real good one.
Yes
We’ve seen what Gasol can do: show up for the regular season and then hide in his beard come playoff time.
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
oh come on, that's the laziest form of analysis ever. He was a dominant player in the playoffs
the Lakers got beat in the Finals by a superior team, no shame in that.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
...that played great, great team defense
and limited Kobe to being a mere mortal.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Kobe needed more than the 14.7 PPG he was getting from the Spainiard
but I admit last year’s playoff run is nothing to bash Pau over and his rebounding was up from the regular season. I just hear harp and lyre music in my head whenever I watch him play.
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
he plays the game with grace and skill
he’s also one of the best big man passers in the game today. Pau gets way more flack for that Finals than he deserves. He was in a new system that he had only been playing for half a year and that he had dominated in for the preceding few months. He ran up against one of the all-time great defenses and against one of the top 3 power forwards ever and DPOY, KG. Losing to a team like that and getting limited by a guy like that is nothing to be ashamed of.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 8, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That article said...
...the Grizzlies are interested in the Iranian C enough to hopefully “have him signed by next week”.
That's too quick for the Bulls
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 8, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If anything, this throws another number out there...
...to compare Gordon to. If he’s still asking for more than 5/55 this summer, he’s DEFINITELY not going to get it. (not that anyone thought he would get more than that, just that this further puts a limit on what he should reasonably expect) I still maintain, though, if the Bulls aren’t even thinking of offering the 5/50 from last year that could rise to 5/55 to get something done, then I think they’re stupid.
You'd think that would be the case
I would hope this cements $50/5 as being a fair deal for the BG camp. If so, then I’d be comfortable with the Bulls making such an offer as I don’t think that would render BG’s contract untradable, unless it’s really backloaded. The thing I’m not sure about, however, is if the BG camp cares about this Josh Smith deal or if they’re fixated on that “highest scorer = highest paid player on the team” mindset. I know not all of us buy into that story, but BG’s recent comments about the Bulls’ maybe being willing to lose their “highest scorer” (wiht the emphasis on him using that description of himself) makes me lean towards believing the stories about his demands.
by messwiththebull on Aug 8, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
i think gordon..
thinks of himself as a better player than josh smith. he probably thinks “well, we were in the same draft, and i’ve scored more than him my entire career, so i should be getting paid more. in fact, he’s not even the leading scorer on his team, joe johnson is. and joe johnson only made the playoffs once with the hawks and they only won 37 games, so i definitely deserve more than joe johnson. and josh smith is crazy. i’m always at the berto center working out and trying to improve my game, especially my scoring ability, because, um, well, i AM the leading scorer on this team. and if all that isn’t enough, i always get the ball in pressure situations. oh, one last thing, did i happen to mention that i have the highest scoring average on the bulls? well its true, because i do. so yeah, 15 mil per sounds about right for a guy like me. leading scorer”
That was quick
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/08/08/bc.bkn.grizzlies.smith.ap/index.html
“Tonight, the Hawks organization received an offer sheet from the Memphis Grizzlies for Josh Smith,” Atlanta general manager Rick Sund said in a statement. “We are happy to announce that we will match their offer sheet.“Ownership, management and the team are happy to have Josh return as a member of the Hawks.”
Somehow I doubt Josh is happy.
yeah
but i’m really not surprised they matched it. it wasn’t out of their league.
that’s why i said in the earlier comments that he shouldn’t sign – it gave the hawks way too much leverage. if he really wanted to go he needed to say look this is what the grizz offered and i want to go – please sign and trade me. because he signed the offer sheet he screwed himself if he really wanted to leave ATL.
I'll assume Mike Woodson gets fired before Josh Smith gets traded
Woodson isn’t exactly Greg Popovich, they could hire 10 other guys to lead that team to their annual 37 win season.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 8, 2008 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Atlanta matching was a no brainer
to get Smith for that contract is in some ways a steal considering what he was rumored to be asking for initially. And I agree, Woodson will be long gone before they consider getting rid of one of their best players. I’d rank him 3rd amongst Hawks players behind Joe Johnson and Al Horford, but it’s really close.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Rick Fox isn’t here for the right reasons
- A shameless businessman wants to trademark “Linsanity”
- Video: NBA players give their Valentine’s advice
- Chicago’s owner sees an unfortunate comparison between Derrick Rose and Michael Jordan
- Another day of a combination of Jeremy Lin’s last name and mental instability
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
